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SCCWS
07-24-2009, 09:58 PM
During Red Sox/Oriole game, announcer said White Sox scouts stopped in booth between innings. I assume they are following O's and not Red Sox.

GoGoCrede
07-24-2009, 09:58 PM
Let the rampant speculation begin!

mzh
07-24-2009, 09:59 PM
During Red Sox/Oriole game, announcer said White Sox scouts stopped in booth between innings. I assume they are following O's and not Red Sox.

The only O i've heard in any rumours is George Sherrill. Wouldn't mind having another solid bullpen arm, but who else on that team would the sox be interested in?

SoxGirl4Life
07-24-2009, 10:00 PM
The only O i've heard in any rumours is George Sherrill. Wouldn't mind having another solid bullpen arm, but who else on that team would the sox be interested in?

and for whom?

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:02 PM
During Red Sox/Oriole game, announcer said White Sox scouts stopped in booth between innings. I assume they are following O's and not Red Sox.
Why would you assume that? Maybe for the Mark Kotsay (there is already a thread in WTS about that)?

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:03 PM
The only O i've heard in any rumours is George Sherrill. Wouldn't mind having another solid bullpen arm, but who else on that team would the sox be interested in?

There are lots of good young players on the Orioles, but I doubt the Orioles would be willing to trade most of them.

I'd be pleased if we acquired a closer-quality reliever like Sherrill. A bullpen of Jenks, Sherill, Thornton, Dotel, Linebrink, Pena and Carrasco would be MLB's best, at least on paper.

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:05 PM
There are lots of good young players on the Orioles, but I doubt the Orioles would be willing to trade most of them.

I'd be pleased if we acquired a closer-quality reliever like Sherrill. A bullpen of Jenks, Sherill, Thornton, Dotel, Linebrink, Pena and Carrasco would be MLB's best, at least on paper.

We would have to make roster room for anybody, so the question returns to who do the sox give up? Does anybody have any details on Sherrill's contract?

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:06 PM
We would have to make roster room for anybody, so the question returns to who do the sox give up? Does anybody have any details on Sherrill's contract?

Not sure about his contract, but he's making a very affordable $2.75M this year.

EDIT: Looks like it's a one-year deal.

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2009, 10:09 PM
Why would you assume that? Maybe for the Mark Kotsay (there is already a thread in WTS about that)?

How do you "scout" Kotsay if he is DFA?

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:11 PM
Not sure about his contract, but he's making a very affordable $2.75M this year.

EDIT: Looks like it's a one-year deal.

That is interesting, seeing as we already have Linebrink and Dotel gone next year, I would think that if we are searching for a bullpen arm it would be somebody that would be brought in so that we would not have to sign any relievers during the offseason. I wonder if there's anyone on Boston we are interested in...

LoveYourSuit:
Maybe they were there to ask questions about him or talk to him before he went to Pawtucket??? Just a suggestion...

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:19 PM
That is interesting, seeing as we already have Linebrink and Dotel gone next year, I would think that if we are searching for a bullpen arm it would be somebody that would be brought in so that we would not have to sign any relievers during the offseason. I wonder if there's anyone on Boston we are interested in...

LoveYourSuit:
Maybe they were there to ask questions about him or talk to him before he went to Pawtucket??? Just a suggestion...

How's this: Get Kotsay. He replaces Wise and also backs up at 1B, making Fields expendable. Send Fields and a prospect to the Orioles for Sherrill.

WSox73
07-24-2009, 10:19 PM
I see Brad Penny started tonight for Boston.

soxfan43
07-24-2009, 10:21 PM
How's this: Get Kotsay. He replaces Wise and also backs up at 1B, making Fields expendable. Send Fields and a prospect to the Orioles for Sherrill.


I like your style. Good idea that is completely possible. Though I think it would take more than Fields to get Sherrill.

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:21 PM
How's this: Get Kotsay. He replaces Wise and also backs up at 1B, making Fields expendable. Send Fields and a prospect to the Orioles for Sherrill.

This is possibly the most realistic, KW-esque suggestion I have seen on this board for a long time. With Melvin Mora getting up in the years, maybe the O's see something in Fields?

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:23 PM
This is possibly the most realistic, KW-esque suggestion I have seen on this board for a long time. With Melvin Mora getting up in the years, maybe the O's see something in Fields?

I seem to remember the Orioles liking Fields as part of a rumored proposed deal for Brian Roberts. Perhaps they still like him?

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:25 PM
I seem to remember the Orioles liking Fields as part of a rumored proposed deal for Brian Roberts. Perhaps they still like him?

For Brian Roberts? No. For George Sherrill or another bullpen arm? Yes. With the emergence of Nolan Reimold and the resulting move of Luke Scott to DH, perhaps Ty Wigginton could be an upgrade on Fields?

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:31 PM
I like your style. Good idea that is completely possible. Though I think it would take more than Fields to get Sherrill.

This is possibly the most realistic, KW-esque suggestion I have seen on this board for a long time. With Melvin Mora getting up in the years, maybe the O's see something in Fields?

In addition, Kotsay and Sherrill upgrade the roster without giving up any important prospects, giving KW the prospects (in addition to Poreda and Richard) needed to pursue a possible trade for Halladay. Just think about this deeppink roster:

Lineup: Pods, Alexei, Dye, Thome, PK, AJ, Quentin, Getz, Beckham
Bench: Kotsay (1B/OF), Castro (C), Nix (3B, SS, 2B, LF), BA (OF)
Rotation: Halladay, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Contreras
Pen: Jenks, Sherrill, Thornton, Dotel, Linebrink, Pena, Carrasco

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:33 PM
For Brian Roberts? No.

A couple of years ago Fields and Roberts were the principals in a rumored deal. A lot of Sox fans actually opposed this idea as Fields was still a highly-touted prospect and seen as the 3B of the future.

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:36 PM
A couple of years ago Fields and Roberts were the principals in a rumored deal. A lot of Sox fans actually opposed this idea as Fields was still a highly-touted prospect and seen as the 3B of the future.

As this is no longer true, Josh Fields will not be nearly enough to land Brian Roberts. I could see him going for Ty Wigginton, who he could end up being very similar to if he gets his bat back on track eventually.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:40 PM
As this is no longer true, Josh Fields will not be nearly enough to land Brian Roberts. I could see him going for Ty Wigginton, who he could end up being very similar to if he gets his bat back on track eventually.

I'm not saying the Sox should even try to acquire Roberts, and I know that Fields is nowhere good enough alone to get Roberts. What I am saying is that Orioles might still like Fields, and Fields plus a prospect might get us Sherrill.

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:43 PM
I'm not saying the Sox should even try to acquire Roberts, and I know that Fields is nowhere good enough alone to get Roberts. What I am saying is that Orioles might still like Fields, and Fields plus a prospect might get us Sherrill.

If this were to happen, I'm guessing that it would be a given that we have acquired Kotsay, and since trading Fields for Sherrill would put us +1 Pitcher and -1 hitter, I would assume that landing Kotsay would involve a pitcher. IF this were to happen, who in the sox bullpen is expendable to be traded or DFA?

Brian26
07-24-2009, 10:51 PM
The difference in production this year between Brian Roberts and the current Sox in-house options (Getz/Nix) does not warrant the difference in contract.

Hopefully the Sox are scouting Oriole pitching right now.

dickallen15
07-24-2009, 10:54 PM
Why would you assume that? Maybe for the Mark Kotsay (there is already a thread in WTS about that)?

Why would the Sox send scouts to watch someone who isn't on the roster anymore?

I think they are interested in Sherill and/or Huff. Thornton is the only lefty in the bullpen. Cooper has said its not that big of a deal, I think he's not being straight.

mzh
07-24-2009, 10:57 PM
I think they are interested in Sherill and/or Huff.

Why would they be interested in Aubrey Huff? We have enough slow, power hitting first baseman/corner outfielders. He is a free agent at the end of this year, in which he is being paid $8 million, so why would we give up much to rent him for half a year?

Lip Man 1
07-24-2009, 10:58 PM
MZH:

Linebrink is with the Sox another two years after this one.

Lip

SOXSINCE'70
07-24-2009, 11:00 PM
Who else on that team would the sox be interested in?

Maybe Adam Jones or Nick Markakis.:D:

Coop'll fix 'em.

dickallen15
07-24-2009, 11:05 PM
Why would they be interested in Aubrey Huff? We have enough slow, power hitting first baseman/corner outfielders. He is a free agent at the end of this year, in which he is being paid $8 million, so why would we give up much to rent him for half a year?

It would be for half a season. He can rotate with Konerko, Quentin and Thome. Even spell Beckham at 3rd, and they could get draft picks if he signs elsewhere. I wouldn't give up too much for him, but if McFail wanted Fields.....................

I think the Orioles have interest in Fields, and supposedly the Sox inquired about Pie. I don't think the Sox would make that trade straight up, but it wouldn't surprise me if the two teams did make a trade, those 2 names are also involved.

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Adam Jones for Brian Anderson, get it done. (No teal).

mzh
07-24-2009, 11:09 PM
It would be for half a season.
Yes, I just said that.

He can rotate with Konerko, Quentin and Thome.
Why would we want to rotate them? What good would it do?

I think the Orioles have interest in Fields, and supposedly the Sox inquired about Pie. I don't think the Sox would make that trade straight up, but it wouldn't surprise me if the two teams did make a trade, those 2 names are also involved.

If the two teams were to make a trade, there is little doubt that Fields would be involved, but unless we sent Wise or BA in said deal, why would we want and what exactly would we do with Felix Pie?

dickallen15
07-24-2009, 11:36 PM
Yes, I just said that.


Why would we want to rotate them? What good would it do?



If the two teams were to make a trade, there is little doubt that Fields would be involved, but unless we sent Wise or BA in said deal, why would we want and what exactly would we do with Felix Pie?

Thome has a bad back, Konerko has a bad thumb and Quentin has a bad foot. That's why I believe the Sox may have some interest in Huff. The White Sox according to the Baltimore press, have inquired about Pie. Maybe they think he's better than BA and Wise. He certainly wouldn't cost much.

JB98
07-24-2009, 11:41 PM
Thome has a bad back, Konerko has a bad thumb and Quentin has a bad foot. That's why I believe the Sox may have some interest in Huff. The White Sox according to the Baltimore press, have inquired about Pie. Maybe they think he's better than BA and Wise. He certainly wouldn't cost much.

Right now, I think Felix Pie is basically a 24-year-old Wise. Of course, being 24, he could get better. Whereas, Wise is what he is.

That said, I'd pass on Felix Pie because he's not an upgrade right now.

Huff would be a nice get as a "10th man" type, just from a baseball perspective. Not sure if the dollars and cents would make him a fit.

dickallen15
07-24-2009, 11:47 PM
Right now, I think Felix Pie is basically a 24-year-old Wise. Of course, being 24, he could get better. Whereas, Wise is what he is.

That said, I'd pass on Felix Pie because he's not an upgrade right now.

Huff would be a nice get as a "10th man" type, just from a baseball perspective. Not sure if the dollars and cents would make him a fit.

Pie has no options left or he's a no brainer to pick up cheap. Just like Viciedo, he was a 20 year old in AA, only his OPS was 250 points higher than Viciedo's. 2 years ago, he hit .362 as a 22 year old in AAA with some power and he can run like the wind. Obviously he hasn't shown he's going to hit at the major league level, but I would take him over Wise any day of the week. If something clicks, the guy will be a star, and wouldn't it make it even better if it were someone the Cubs gave up on?

mzh
07-24-2009, 11:53 PM
If something clicks, the guy will be a star, and wouldn't it make it even better if it were someone the Cubs gave up on?

Something tells me KW won't go for sentimentality:tongue:

JB98
07-24-2009, 11:53 PM
Pie has no options left or he's a no brainer to pick up cheap. Just like Viciedo, he was a 20 year old in AA, only his OPS was 250 points higher than Viciedo's. 2 years ago, he hit .362 as a 22 year old in AAA with some power and he can run like the wind. Obviously he hasn't shown he's going to hit at the major league level, but I would take him over Wise any day of the week. If something clicks, the guy will be a star, and wouldn't it make it even better if it were someone the Cubs gave up on?

Well, yeah, I'd take him over Wise, too, because of the upside. But I wouldn't give anything more than a A-ball prospect for him. IMO, the two biggest needs for the Sox are starting pitching and outfield. I just don't think Felix Pie is a short-term answer, if the idea is to try to win the division this year. I assume KW is looking to acquire players with that in mind.

As for the Cubs, I can't say I really care what their reaction would be.

WSox597
07-25-2009, 08:50 AM
Somehow I get the feeling that Dwayne Wise is here for life, after the catch he made in the perfect game.

No matter how bad he really is normally, that catch has made his career with the Sox. No matter that most other CFs make that catch, even the much maligned CF currently in Charlotte.

Wise made it, and he'll be here for years.

Thome25
07-25-2009, 08:59 AM
IF KW can't land a starter, it makes sense that he would be looking to make the bullpen stronger. That way, a good bullpen could possibly make up for the shortcomings of the starters.

russ99
07-25-2009, 02:48 PM
That is interesting, seeing as we already have Linebrink and Dotel gone next year, I would think that if we are searching for a bullpen arm it would be somebody that would be brought in so that we would not have to sign any relievers during the offseason. I wonder if there's anyone on Boston we are interested in...


I'd love to see something like Fields and a few good prospects for a kid like Reimold. But the O's would be crazy to deal him.

And Linebrink is signed through 2011, with a NTC.

SoxyStu
07-25-2009, 03:01 PM
Somehow I get the feeling that Dwayne Wise is here for life, after the catch he made in the perfect game.

No matter how bad he really is normally, that catch has made his career with the Sox. No matter that most other CFs make that catch, even the much maligned CF currently in Charlotte.

Wise made it, and he'll be here for years.

Because of one play? That's insane.

Noir
07-25-2009, 03:05 PM
Because of one play? That's insane.

This is Gary Matthews part deux.

JB98
07-25-2009, 03:42 PM
Somehow I get the feeling that Dwayne Wise is here for life, after the catch he made in the perfect game.

No matter how bad he really is normally, that catch has made his career with the Sox. No matter that most other CFs make that catch, even the much maligned CF currently in Charlotte.

Wise made it, and he'll be here for years.

Three points:

1) I'm not sure that a right-handed CF makes that catch. Having the glove on his right hand was a benefit to Wise on that play. The ball and Wise's glove arrived basically at the same time. If Wise has the glove on his left hand, he has to reach across his body and that split second could make the difference between making the play and not making the play.

2) I think it's a tremendous reach to say that "most other CFs" make that catch. Most don't. Wise got a great jump. He took the proper route. He timed his jump perfectly and he controlled the ball despite a violent collision with the wall. EVERYTHING had to be perfect. I'm not sure that Wise makes that play too often. Thank goodness he made it this time. It was a GREAT catch. To say otherwise suggests something personal against Wise.

3) Two years from now, when Wise is done playing, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if KW gives him a job as a "roving outfield instructor" or something like that in the Sox minor-league system.

Tragg
07-25-2009, 07:43 PM
Three points:

1) I'm not sure that a right-handed CF makes that catch. Having the glove on his right hand was a benefit to Wise on that play. The ball and Wise's glove arrived basically at the same time. If Wise has the glove on his left hand, he has to reach across his body and that split second could make the difference between making the play and not making the play.
All the credit to Wise; super play. I agree with your lefty point. Anderson doesn't mae that play. That's his moment in the sun, his Warhol 15 minutes. He'll get a lexis or something out of it.
Great.
Meanwhile, he was leadoff hitter the next day.
Meanwhile, the Sox lost 3 in a row.
Wise moment over.

We probably could have Huff for the price of paying his salary. He might be worth that.

cws05champ
07-25-2009, 07:57 PM
I think they were scouting Brad Penny...he could be the # 5 and then Richard could go into the Bull Pen to strengthen it.

Pie doesn't make sense, Sherrill would make sense, but it would take a heck of a lot more than Fields to get him.

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 07:58 PM
I think they were scouting Brad Penny...he could be the # 5 and then Richard could go into the Bull Pen to strengthen it.

Pie doesn't make sense, Sherrill would make sense, but it would take a heck of a lot more than Fields to get him.
Actually, Pie makes perfect sense. Great speed and defense. Long term fourth outfielder and you can try to put his tools to work. He'd be a great get and we could DFA Wise.

JB98
07-25-2009, 08:07 PM
All the credit to Wise; super play. I agree with your lefty point. Anderson doesn't mae that play. That's his moment in the sun, his Warhol 15 minutes. He'll get a lexis or something out of it.
Great.
Meanwhile, he was leadoff hitter the next day.
Meanwhile, the Sox lost 3 in a row.
Wise moment over.

We probably could have Huff for the price of paying his salary. He might be worth that.

It was definitely his 15 minutes. I just think people should allow him that. Kudos to you for saying that it was a terrific play and not resorting to the "Anderson would have had it" line, because none of us can say with certainty whether Anderson would have had it or not.

As far as the trade rumors, I'm in favor of upgrading the outfield, but I wouldn't give up anything of substance for Felix Pie.

Or maybe we deal Anderson for Pie. Two players that might benefit by going to a new organization.

Tragg
07-25-2009, 08:13 PM
Or maybe we deal Anderson for Pie. Two players that might benefit by going to a new organization.
I called for that trade a month ago (in response to someone who suggested Fields I think). I'm with you.
Pie would be fine.

And let me say it one more time (since I was out of town Thur and Friday and didn't post): Great play DeWayne. You make that play; BA does not. A BMW or Lexus should be coming your way.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2009, 09:03 PM
I propose this trade:

Sox get: Sherrill, Huff, Pie
Orioles get: Fields, BA, choice of Poreda or Richard, salary relief

Sherrill shores up the bullpen. He can close or be a 7th/8th inning guy.

Huff backs up 3B and 1B, and provides a stout lefty bat off the bench.

Pie replaces Wise. He's a better defender, but he's LH and fast like Ozzie likes.

Boondock Saint
07-25-2009, 09:08 PM
I propose this trade:

Sox get: Sherrill, Huff, Pie
Orioles get: Fields, BA, choice of Poreda or Richard, salary relief

Sherrill shores up the bullpen. He can close or be a 7th/8th inning guy.

Huff backs up 3B and 1B, and provides a stout lefty bat off the bench.

Pie replaces Wise. He's a better defender, but he's LH and fast like Ozzie likes.

I like this idea a lot. I like it even more if the Orioles decide on Richard over Poreda.

JB98
07-25-2009, 09:13 PM
I propose this trade:

Sox get: Sherrill, Huff, Pie
Orioles get: Fields, BA, choice of Poreda or Richard, salary relief

Sherrill shores up the bullpen. He can close or be a 7th/8th inning guy.

Huff backs up 3B and 1B, and provides a stout lefty bat off the bench.

Pie replaces Wise. He's a better defender, but he's LH and fast like Ozzie likes.

Interesting. You just wonder whether the Orioles would think enough of Fields to make that move. Certainly, Baltimore could use corner infield help. Mora is in decline.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2009, 09:22 PM
Interesting. You just wonder whether the Orioles would think enough of Fields to make that move. Certainly, Baltimore could use corner infield help. Mora is in decline.

I think the win for them in this proposal is getting both Fields AND a likely future LH starting pitcher in either Poreda or Richard.

Tragg
07-25-2009, 09:50 PM
I think the win for them in this proposal is getting both Fields AND a likely future LH starting pitcher in either Poreda or Richard.
You boild it down:
Anderson for Pie
Huff for taking his salary (there's your salary relief)

So you boil it down
Fields and a LH pitcher for a reliever, Sherill. Sherill's one of those year good/year bad pitchers, currently having a good one.
Honestly, I think Poreda or Richard for Sherill is a nice deal for them. I think they'd take that.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 10:17 PM
How many more years is Sherrill arbitration eligible?

Tragg
07-25-2009, 10:30 PM
How many more years is Sherrill arbitration eligible?
Any?
He's not young - in his early 30s.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 10:33 PM
Any?
He's not young - in his early 30s.


MLB service just over 3 years. Similar to Jenks, so 2 more?

Tragg
07-25-2009, 10:52 PM
MLB service just over 3 years. Similar to Jenks, so 2 more?
I don't know the rules. I thought at some point, minor league years count.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't know the rules. I thought at some point, minor league years count.

The reason I ask is that if he is arbitration eligible for a couple more years, it would make him more valuable and harder to get.

Dibbs
07-25-2009, 11:38 PM
No way would I give up Poreda in that deal. I am surprised so many seem quick to take that deal.

soxfanreggie
07-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Giving up Poreda in that deal would be hard but if Sherrill could give us a few good years and this would propel us to the playoffs it would be one to take a long look at. We have to face facts, an impact player is going to cost us at least one good prospect. However I believe that we can find a good buy outnumber there.

soxyess
07-26-2009, 11:04 AM
I think that people here are overvaluing Poreda. Right now I see a pitcher with a mid 90's fastball (I have yet to see the 97mph fast ball that has been talked about) and absolutely terrible control. Poreda does not have any consistant quality secondary pitches, and its highly unlikely that at this stage in his career he is going to suddenly develop two or three effective secondary pitches. If he gets his control down he could be an effective set up man or closer, but I dont see him as a starter. However, that being said, because of his power arm he becomes quality trade bait that could allow us to get help.

SCCWS
07-26-2009, 11:11 AM
I propose this trade:

Sox get: Sherrill, Huff, Pie
Orioles get: Fields, BA, choice of Poreda or Richard, salary relief

Sherrill shores up the bullpen. He can close or be a 7th/8th inning guy.

Huff backs up 3B and 1B, and provides a stout lefty bat off the bench.

Pie replaces Wise. He's a better defender, but he's LH and fast like Ozzie likes.

There are a couple of problems with your trade.
You included Anderson but Wise has no options. That means both would go in essence for Pie.
Anderson, Fields and Wise are all marginal MLB players at best. Why would the Orioles want to trade a bargain chip in Sherrill for one real prospect in Poreda or Richard.
I think the Sox could get Huff+ his salary for Fields or Anderson. But to get Sherrill, I think O's will want Poreda or Richards and another prospect.

So maybe Fields, Wise, Poreda and Flowers gets Sherrill, Huff and Pie.

DirtySox
07-26-2009, 11:38 AM
I think that people here are overvaluing Poreda. Right now I see a pitcher with a mid 90's fastball (I have yet to see the 97mph fast ball that has been talked about) and absolutely terrible control. Poreda does not have any consistant quality secondary pitches, and its highly unlikely that at this stage in his career he is going to suddenly develop two or three effective secondary pitches. If he gets his control down he could be an effective set up man or closer, but I dont see him as a starter. However, that being said, because of his power arm he becomes quality trade bait that could allow us to get help.


I think you are undervaluing Poreda. He might end up being nothing than a bullpen guy, but he is too old to learn secondary pitches? He is only 22. Sox talent evaluators obviously see something or he wouldn't be put in a starting role once again.

Daver
07-26-2009, 11:45 AM
I think you are undervaluing Poreda. He might end up being nothing than a bullpen guy, but he is too old to learn secondary pitches? He is only 22. Sox talent evaluators obviously see something or he wouldn't be put in a starting role once again.

And the argument can be made that pitching prospects have less value than position players due to the failure rate inherrent to pitching, I didn't double check the numbers, but it is somewhere near 1 out of 50 pitchers drafted ever throw a pitch at the MLB level.

soxyess
07-26-2009, 12:06 PM
I think you are undervaluing Poreda. He might end up being nothing than a bullpen guy, but he is too old to learn secondary pitches? He is only 22. Sox talent evaluators obviously see something or he wouldn't be put in a starting role once again.

I think the sox are showcasing him for trade material. In the past, the Sox would draft soft tossing righties that really were not attractive to other teams as trade material. Hard throwing pitchers are much more attractive as teams love power arms. Most teams figure you can teach mechanics but you cant teach mid to up 90's heat. I think the Sox have lately started to emply a smart philosophy of drafting power arms with high ceilings, showcasing them in the minors with a view toward using them as trade material to acquire talent via trade.

russ99
07-26-2009, 12:46 PM
Just say no to Pie.

He's a bizarro mix of Wise and Owens, and has had lots of time at the big-league level to prove he can't hit MLB pitching.

If we're going to trade Sox assets for an outfielder, let's improve the position, not move laterally.

Tragg
07-26-2009, 02:12 PM
I don't mind trading Poreda; but not for a middle reliever.

mzh
07-26-2009, 10:37 PM
I don't mind trading Poreda; but not for a middle reliever.

Sherrill is a setup man and closer, a Matt Thornton-type pitcher. I wouldn't do a Poreda for Sherrill deal straight up either, but if it is in the middle of a deal in which we get more general talent, such as the one that Frater suggested, I wouldn't necessarily mind it.

WSox597
07-27-2009, 07:46 AM
2) I think it's a tremendous reach to say that "most other CFs" make that catch. Most don't. Wise got a great jump. He took the proper route. He timed his jump perfectly and he controlled the ball despite a violent collision with the wall. EVERYTHING had to be perfect. I'm not sure that Wise makes that play too often. Thank goodness he made it this time. It was a GREAT catch. To say otherwise suggests something personal against Wise.

I said it was a great catch. I also said he's not very good normally. I have nothing personal against him, that's silly to even suggest. I don't know the man.

He's just not a very good baseball player, period. But he made one hell of a catch, although it was real close to a bobble on the way down.

Thank goodness he held on to it.

My statement had to do with the sometimes misplaced loyalty in the organization. That's why I said he'll be around forever. That is all, there's nothing else.

hawkjt
07-27-2009, 09:34 AM
Honestly, I just do not see Poreda as a better prospect than Richard right now.
Richard has a better fastball, better control,and better breaking stuff. Plus he has poise on the mound.
If one has to be given up...tough call but I would send Poreda away.
I perfer Torres for Sherrill.

KMcMahon817
07-27-2009, 04:15 PM
Honestly, I just do not see Poreda as a better prospect than Richard right now.
Richard has a better fastball, better control,and better breaking stuff. Plus he has poise on the mound.
If one has to be given up...tough call but I would send Poreda away.
I perfer Torres for Sherrill.


hah. Good luck with that one.:rolleyes:

Konerko05
07-27-2009, 06:25 PM
There are a couple of problems with your trade.
You included Anderson but Wise has no options. That means both would go in essence for Pie.
Anderson, Fields and Wise are all marginal MLB players at best. Why would the Orioles want to trade a bargain chip in Sherrill for one real prospect in Poreda or Richard.
I think the Sox could get Huff+ his salary for Fields or Anderson. But to get Sherrill, I think O's will want Poreda or Richards and another prospect.

So maybe Fields, Wise, Poreda and Flowers gets Sherrill, Huff and Pie.

If the Sox are trading their best offensive prospect who happens to be a catcher and their best pitching prospect who happens to be a lefty, they better be getting a better return than that.

Pie may eventually start to figure it out at the plate, but at this point he has shown no signs of it at the ML level. Defensive specialist.

Huff is making 8mil this season with a .716 OPS.

I have no objections to acquiring Sherill, but not at the expense of Flowers or Poreda.

Flowers is an absolute stud at the plate. He seems to be improving on defense as well. Even if he doesn't stick at C, his bat is good enough to play 1B or DH. He has a lot of value right now.

Tragg
07-27-2009, 06:37 PM
George Sherill is a 32 year old relief pitcher with ZERO career saves -- EDIT MY ERROR. He is a solid relief pitcher, perhaps a set-up man in a good year. It's impossible to dress him up othewise. A closer, he isn't.
Poreda or Richard for him would be a STEAL for the Orioles....a trade the Sox should make only if desparate for a relief pitcher at midseason. WE'd likely get his production out of the pen from Richard anyway (with potentional for more).

The notion that it will take Poreda or Richard PLUS another prospect like Flowers to get this relief pitcher is just nutty.

nug0hs
07-27-2009, 06:51 PM
George Sherill is a 32 year old relief pitcher with ZERO career saves. He is a solid relief pitcher, perhaps a set-up man in a good year. It's impossible to dress him up othewise. A closer, he isn't.

You must be mistaken. Sherrill has 56 career saves including 31 last year and 21 so far this season: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/playerpage/479390

rowand33
07-27-2009, 07:30 PM
George Sherill is a 32 year old relief pitcher with ZERO career saves. He is a solid relief pitcher, perhaps a set-up man in a good year. It's impossible to dress him up othewise. A closer, he isn't.
Poreda or Richard for him would be a STEAL for the Orioles....a trade the Sox should make only if desparate for a relief pitcher at midseason. WE'd likely get his production out of the pen from Richard anyway (with potentional for more).

The notion that it will take Poreda or Richard PLUS another prospect like Flowers to get this relief pitcher is just nutty.

This is just blatantly incorrect.

Tragg
07-27-2009, 09:44 PM
My mistake. I don't know what column was looking at.
He's the Orioles closer for 2 years. I should have known that anyway.
Still wouldn't give Flowers for him.

mzh
07-28-2009, 04:26 PM
Why would you assume that? Maybe for the Mark Kotsay (there is already a thread in WTS about that)?

Obviously, we were on to something to something here. I'm surprised, we were actually sort of right about this!

Whitesoxfan23
07-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Mlbtraderumors.com, is reporting that the Sox are in on Sherill, and that Fields could go to the Orioles, as part of a deal.

Whitesoxfan23
07-29-2009, 08:50 PM
According to Mlbtraderumors.com, Fields could possibly be traded to the Orioles as a part of a deal for Sherrill. It's just a rumor though.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Obviously, we were on to something to something here. I'm surprised, we were actually sort of right about this!

Mlbtraderumors.com, is reporting that the Sox are in on Sherill, and that Fields could go to the Orioles, as part of a deal.

And maybe we've been on to another part of one possible big picture.

The next couple days should be interesting.

Tragg
07-29-2009, 10:14 PM
Bullpen simply isn't one of the signficant weaknesses on this team. Using assets for Sherill with other needs is ?able (okay if it's Fields; but he'd just be the obligatory throw in)

Defense is and centerfield/leadoff will be again next spring. At some point, the Sox really need to put these infielders in the right positions and see where they fit in.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 11:37 PM
Mlbtraderumors.com, is reporting that the Sox are in on Sherill, and that Fields could go to the Orioles, as part of a deal.

:bandance:

Boondock Saint
07-29-2009, 11:45 PM
Bullpen simply isn't one of the signficant weaknesses on this team. Using assets for Sherill with other needs is ?able (okay if it's Fields; but he'd just be the obligatory throw in)

Defense is and centerfield/leadoff will be again next spring. At some point, the Sox really need to put these infielders in the right positions and see where they fit in.

I agree. I like Sherill, but how much does he really solve? I'm fine with getting him, but not if he's any kind of expensive, and certainly not if it's the only big move we make this year.

LoveYourSuit
07-30-2009, 12:00 AM
I agree. I like Sherill, but how much does he really solve? I'm fine with getting him, but not if he's any kind of expensive, and certainly not if it's the only big move we make this year.


#1 A Legit OF bat (to put CQ on the shelf the rest of the year)
#2 Another starting pitcher.

Sam Spade
07-30-2009, 12:09 AM
#1 A Legit OF bat (to put CQ on the shelf the rest of the year)
#2 Another starting pitcher.

If quentin can play and produce, you don't put him on the shelf because of soreness. He hit a bomb today, lets see what happens.

dwalteroo
07-30-2009, 12:35 AM
I'd rather KW go get a quality SP, but if we aren't going that route, I'll take another quality arm in the bullpen any day. Sherrill has 20 saves this year so far, and that's with Baltimore - that's nothing to sneeze at.

And let's face it, Fields may have value somewhere, but it isn't here. Absent this Ramirez injury being substantial, I wouldn't mind at all if Kenny pulled the trigger on this.

LoveYourSuit
07-30-2009, 12:50 AM
If quentin can play and produce, you don't put him on the shelf because of soreness. He hit a bomb today, lets see what happens.

I think Quentin has more value to us long term than trying to win a 84 win division.

Which also brings up a concern I have about another dog fight division title to the end. Gavin, Buehrle, Danks endured so much stress and heavy crucial innings during that dog fight to the end last season. I don't want those guys going thru that again here again. They are big keys to the future. Last thing we need is their arms to fall off like Freddy and Garland.

DSpivack
07-30-2009, 01:13 AM
:bandance:

According to Mlbtraderumors.com, Fields could possibly be traded to the Orioles as a part of a deal for Sherrill. It's just a rumor though.

Where do you see that there? I've seen that the Sox are trying for the Oriole, and that Fields wants to be traded, but not both.

Also, many teams are after the lefty with closer experience and stuff, a package is not going to be centered around a failed 27-year old prospect whose only upside is his power and potential. He could go there in a deal, but certainly the Sox would have to give up a highly regarded youngster. Tony Pena is a lesser pitcher and went for Brandon Allen.

oeo
07-30-2009, 01:44 AM
Where do you see that there? I've seen that the Sox are trying for the Oriole, and that Fields wants to be traded, but not both.

Also, many teams are after the lefty with closer experience and stuff, a package is not going to be centered around a failed 27-year old prospect whose only upside is his power and potential. He could go there in a deal, but certainly the Sox would have to give up a highly regarded youngster. Tony Pena is a lesser pitcher and went for Brandon Allen.

Tony Pena is also only 27 years old and will be on the cheap for four more years.

thedudeabides
07-30-2009, 09:38 AM
I think Quentin has more value to us long term than trying to win a 84 win division.

Which also brings up a concern I have about another dog fight division title to the end. Gavin, Buehrle, Danks endured so much stress and heavy crucial innings during that dog fight to the end last season. I don't want those guys going thru that again here again. They are big keys to the future. Last thing we need is their arms to fall off like Freddy and Garland.

Ok. So, the Sox should shelf Quentin the rest of the year, and our top three starters should lay down, so they don't burn their arms out in this pennant race, so they can compete in a future pennant race. Brilliant.

Your 2009 Chicago White Sox, complete quitters, but we have a future.

35th and Shields
07-30-2009, 10:26 AM
The last week we've watched the sox lose 6 of 7 and mostly because we beat ourseleves. The defense is in one word attrocious. We probably could have won at least 2 more games over this stretch if all we did was play average defense.

This team needs to either play better defense or get someone else who will if they want to win anything.

kobo
07-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Which also brings up a concern I have about another dog fight division title to the end. Gavin, Buehrle, Danks endured so much stress and heavy crucial innings during that dog fight to the end last season. I don't want those guys going thru that again here again. They are big keys to the future. Last thing we need is their arms to fall off like Freddy and Garland.
If they want to be a playoff team then these guys need to pitch well in September. End of story. If they get in a position where they somehow win the division a week before the season ends then they can rest a couple of those guys.

hi im skot
07-30-2009, 12:01 PM
Where do you see that there? I've seen that the Sox are trying for the Oriole, and that Fields wants to be traded, but not both.

Also, many teams are after the lefty with closer experience and stuff, a package is not going to be centered around a failed 27-year old prospect whose only upside is his power and potential. He could go there in a deal, but certainly the Sox would have to give up a highly regarded youngster. Tony Pena is a lesser pitcher and went for Brandon Allen.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/many-teams-pursuing-sherrill.html

It's MLB Trade Rumors, so it's probably bunk. It's nice to dream, though.

oeo
07-30-2009, 12:07 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/many-teams-pursuing-sherrill.html

It's MLB Trade Rumors, so it's probably bunk. It's nice to dream, though.

It's Ken Rosenthal and some other dude.

hi im skot
07-30-2009, 12:20 PM
It's Ken Rosenthal and some other dude.

Exactly my point. :D:

PalehosePlanet
07-30-2009, 12:28 PM
The old rumor was that we were scouting the Orioles for a Fields for Pie, bust-for-bust, type of move.

That seems to make more sense than Sherill. He is not neccesarily a need for us and would cost alot more than Fields.

cws05champ
07-30-2009, 01:07 PM
The old rumor was that we were scouting the Orioles for a Fields for Pie, bust-for-bust, type of move.

That seems to make more sense than Sherill. He is not neccesarily a need for us and would cost alot more than Fields.

It depends on what it would cost us. I'd be willing to give up Fields and other prospects not named Flowers,Viciedo, Hudson, Danks.

It would make our BP really strong with Thornton, Sherill, Dotel, Linebrink, Jenks.

canOcorn
07-30-2009, 01:09 PM
It depends on what it would cost us. I'd be willing to give up Fields and other prospects not named Flowers,Viciedo, Hudson, Danks.

It would make our BP really strong with Thornton, Sherill, Dotel, Linebrink, Jenks.

Since Kenny overpaid on Pena, he's set the market pretty high.

Rockabilly
07-30-2009, 02:15 PM
http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/blog?post=4364820&name=levine

Also there has been talk in Baltimore that this trade might go down by tonight

Boondock Saint
07-30-2009, 02:28 PM
http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/blog?post=4364820&name=levine

Also there has been talk in Baltimore that this trade might go down by tonight

Kind of hard to respect Levine when he doesn't know who Matt Capps is.

mzh
07-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Also there has been talk in Baltimore that this trade might go down by tonight

Seeing as today is the deadline, it certainly can't go down tomorrow, can it?

Domeshot17
07-30-2009, 02:57 PM
Seeing as today is the deadline, it certainly can't go down tomorrow, can it?

July has 31 days pal :redneck

DirtySox
07-30-2009, 03:09 PM
Sherrill likely a Dodger.

http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/2935642349

getonbckthr
07-30-2009, 03:49 PM
Is Felix Pie any better than say Jerry OWens?

soxfanreggie
07-30-2009, 03:49 PM
He was on my shortlist of guys to get, but there are other positions I'd be happy with an upgrade at.

oeo
07-30-2009, 03:51 PM
Is Felix Pie any better than say Jerry OWens?

Pie has some pop and a very good arm, both of which Owens did not have. He's also a better defender, not to mention the guy is still only 24.

GoGoCrede
07-30-2009, 03:52 PM
Sherrill likely a Dodger.

http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/2935642349

Yep. Just got an MLB text about it. For prospects, 3B Josh Bell and RHP Steve Johnson.

thedudeabides
07-30-2009, 03:54 PM
Is Felix Pie any better than say Jerry OWens?

He has a lot better skillset. He is a very good defender and is also very fast, but hasn't been much of a basestealer. He also hasn't hit, but I wouldn't mind seeing him replace wise, as he's still only 24 years old.

Rockabilly
07-30-2009, 04:05 PM
Yep. Just got an MLB text about it. For prospects, 3B Josh Bell and RHP Steve Johnson.


looks like they don't want Josh Fields now

thedudeabides
07-30-2009, 04:16 PM
looks like they don't want Josh Fields now

I don't see this trade mattering in a Felix Pie/Josh Fields swap.

KRS1
07-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Is Felix Pie any better than say Jerry OWens?

I think the better question is if he's better than Wise, and to that I say absolutely yes. Not only is he better in every way on the field, but he also has youth on his side. Though Pie's swing keeps getting longer and uglier, those tools alone make him a better bet for our fourth OF job, even more so if you look at the upgrade at the dish (not that Pie is a world beater there).

KRS1
07-30-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't see this trade mattering in a Felix Pie/Josh Fields swap.

Unless the O's don't want Fields now that they got a legit 3b spect who should be ready to at least compete for a job next spring.

getonbckthr
07-30-2009, 04:32 PM
I think the better question is if he's better than Wise, and to that I say absolutely yes. Not only is he better in every way on the field, but he also has youth on his side. Though Pie's swing keeps getting longer and uglier, those tools alone make him a better bet for our fourth OF job, even more so if you look at the upgrade at the dish (not that Pie is a world beater there).
Riddle me this Batman (:D:) is Pie better than Fields AND Wise?:cool:

KRS1
07-30-2009, 04:35 PM
Riddle me this Batman (:D:) is Pie better than Fields AND Wise?:cool:

Though I know you jest... We have no faith in Fields, and getting Wise out of Ozzie's lineup possibility with the addition of Pie is win-win.

getonbckthr
07-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Though I know you jest... We have no faith in Fields, and getting Wise out of Ozzie's lineup possibility with the addition of Pie is win-win.
Truly I found a way to add "riddle me this Batman..." into a conversation and I jumped on it. :D:. Ya I need to get a life. Haha.

thedudeabides
07-30-2009, 04:38 PM
Unless the O's don't want Fields now that they got a legit 3b spect who should be ready to at least compete for a job next spring.

Sure, but I don't know if Bell is ready or they think he is, or if they view Fields as a 1b/3b, dh, or bench player. Either way, this is just swapping junk so I doubt they were thinking of Fields as their third basemen for the next 10 years.