PDA

View Full Version : SI Proposal: Halladay Could go to Sox


BleacherBandit
07-22-2009, 09:43 PM
The new July 27 issue of Sports Illustrated suggests that Kenny Williams has enough pieces to go out and get Halladay. Joe Sheehan, the writer, says that KW could tempt the Blue Jays with Jordan Danks and Aaron Poreda, and has the clout in this market because of the Peavy deal.

Given, this was just a blurb next to a larger article extolling the Phillie's farm system and need for a starter to propel them into World Series certainty, but I thought it was interesting. If you would have asked me about this, I would have called it blasphemy, but that's just me.

DirtySox
07-22-2009, 10:01 PM
The Jays have already rejected an offer by the Sox according to a few sources.

oeo
07-22-2009, 10:06 PM
Unless the Jays lower their asking price, he's not going anywhere, IMO.

GoGoCrede
07-22-2009, 10:06 PM
The Jays have already rejected an offer by the Sox according to a few sources.

Interesting. Do you have a link? Who was part of the deal?

DirtySox
07-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Interesting. Do you have a link? Who was part of the deal?

There were no specifics. ESPN Insider had an article, as did the Sun Times.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1678390,CST-SPT-soxnt22.article

whitem0nkey
07-22-2009, 10:25 PM
on my way home from work on 670 they were saying that the brewers can make a nice offer and may end up getting him.

DirtySox
07-22-2009, 11:02 PM
I would be surprised if he ends up anywhere but Philly.

Konerko05
07-22-2009, 11:19 PM
The Jays have already rejected an offer by the Sox according to a few sources.

Ken Rosenthal on CSN tonight said Ricciardi told him no team has offered a finalized package. It sounds like there has only been some preliminary talks so far. Ricciardi also told him only four teams are serious potential trading partners.

Tragg
07-22-2009, 11:21 PM
The new July 27 issue of Sports Illustrated suggests that Kenny Williams has enough pieces to go out and get Halladay. Joe Sheehan, the writer, says that KW could tempt the Blue Jays with Jordan Danks and Aaron Poreda, and has the clout in this market because of the Peavy deal.

Given, this was just a blurb next to a larger article extolling the Phillie's farm system and need for a starter to propel them into World Series certainty, but I thought it was interesting. If you would have asked me about this, I would have called it blasphemy, but that's just me.

That's Mr Baseball Prospectus, moonlighting I guess. He's speculating on could or should make a deal, I would guess.

Good thing Peavy rejected.

mzh
07-22-2009, 11:43 PM
on my way home from work on 670 they were saying that the brewers can make a nice offer and may end up getting him.

After giving up a top-tier prospect for half a year of C.C. Sabathia, would they do the same for a year and a half of Halladay?

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-22-2009, 11:54 PM
I wouldn't mind if the Sox traded some prospects, but I would hate to lose Flowers in any deal.

BigP50
07-23-2009, 12:00 AM
I wouldn't mind if the Sox traded some prospects, but I would hate to lose Flowers in any deal.


with Phegley I think Flowers is more tradeable but I would also hate to see him leave

ndgt10
07-23-2009, 12:04 AM
If anybody gets him it will be the Phillies.

DirtySox
07-23-2009, 12:15 AM
with Phegley I think Flowers is more tradeable but I would also hate to see him leave

Phegley needs to show he can hit with a wooden bat before he can be considered a legitimate prospect. He is very far from being considered a Flowers replacement.

SoxNation05
07-23-2009, 02:44 AM
Phegly needs to show he is not the second coming of Donny Lucy.

Sargeant79
07-23-2009, 07:16 AM
While I would certainly be a little disappointed not to get the chance to see guys like Jordan Danks and Flowers reach their potential in the Sox organization, I'd trade just about anyone in the minor league system if it brought Halladay back, even for a year and a half. I just think that in the end, someone else (Phillies, Brewers) will put together a better package.

jabrch
07-23-2009, 07:26 AM
Phegley needs to show he can hit with a wooden bat before he can be considered a legitimate prospect. He is very far from being considered a Flowers replacement.

Phegly needs more than a few months in the minors before he is assessed as an option or not an option for anything.

Tragg
07-23-2009, 08:53 AM
While I would certainly be a little disappointed not to get the chance to see guys like Jordan Danks and Flowers reach their potential in the Sox organization, I'd trade just about anyone in the minor league system if it brought Halladay back, even for a year and a half. I just think that in the end, someone else (Phillies, Brewers) will put together a better package.
I doubt anyone will put together a better package of Danks Flowers and more.
I hope we don't.

beasly213
07-23-2009, 08:53 AM
I don't think he is going anywhere. I think the Jays put him out there to see if anyone would sell the farm for him but had no real intentions of trading him unless they could get a steal.

35th and Shields
07-23-2009, 09:04 AM
I don't think he is going anywhere. I think the Jays put him out there to see if anytime would sell the farm for him but had no real intentions of trading him unless they could get a steal.

I agree. They're not just going to settle for an offer as they seem to think that with a healthy rotation next year they can compete.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2009, 09:14 AM
Toronto will never really "compete" being in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox. The best they can do is hope to catch lightening in a bottle in a season a la Tampa in 2008.

Lip

spawn
07-23-2009, 09:17 AM
Toronto will never really "compete" being in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox. The best they can do is hope to catch lightening in a bottle in a season a la Tampa in 2008.

Lip
Tampa didn't catch lightning in a bottle IMO. They have a very good team.

Bobby Thigpen
07-23-2009, 09:22 AM
Nm

Bobby Thigpen
07-23-2009, 09:23 AM
The Jays competed pretty decently in 92 and 93.

TDog
07-23-2009, 09:23 AM
Tampa didn't catch lightning in a bottle IMO. They have a very good team.

Not as good as the White Sox, even when the White Sox are starting Richard and Torres and not Halladay.

Chez
07-23-2009, 09:25 AM
Does drafting and signing Jared Mitchell make Jordan Danks more expendable? Before Mitchell was drafted, I would have guessed Jordan Danks was virtually untouchable.

Bobby Thigpen
07-23-2009, 09:28 AM
With the Sox history of CFs of late, I don't think having two good CF prospects is a bad thing. I'd keep both, but Halladay is a big catch.

Probably closest to a sure investment as you can get on a pitcher.

Domeshot17
07-23-2009, 09:34 AM
Not as good as the White Sox, even when the White Sox are starting Richard and Torres and not Halladay.

Was this meant to be tealed? They went to the world series last year, outclassed us really good in the playoffs.

I mean, if they were in the AL Central, they would be up 1.5 on Det and 2.5 on Us.

35th and Shields
07-23-2009, 09:35 AM
Does drafting and signing Jared Mitchell make Jordan Danks more expendable? Before Mitchell was drafted, I would have guessed Jordan Danks was virtually untouchable.

I think it would definatly make it a little bit easier to depart with with him if he was the missing piece of a Halladay deal but I don't think he'll be traded unless it's part of a big move.

TDog
07-23-2009, 11:01 AM
Was this meant to be tealed? They went to the world series last year, outclassed us really good in the playoffs.

I mean, if they were in the AL Central, they would be up 1.5 on Det and 2.5 on Us.

That wasn't meant to be tealed. And I don't believe the Rays would have gone to the World Series last year if the Sox had their rotation set.

This year the Rays have a better record than anyone in the Central, but they did are 3-5 against the Indians this year (were swept in a four-game series in Cleveland, although they had a 10-0 lead in the first game). This Rays team is much more inconsistent than the White Sox. Their starters have been more inconsistent. Their bullpen has been more inconsistent. They have more speed and play better outfield defense than the Sox do, but that didn't swing last night's game in their favor.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2009, 11:36 AM
Spawn:

Given that they are currently in 3rd place in that division regardless of their record makes my point appear to be valid no?

Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore may occasionally (very occasionally) luck out and win the division. (And I don't mean luck in a negative sense by the way, I can't think of another word) but they simply do not have the means or the will to compete with New York and Boston for talent.

Talent usually wins out over the course of 162 game season. Given that Tampa has had one winning season in their existence, Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs since what 1996 and Toronto since 1993 pretty much sums up their chances me thinks.

The big question now is when Tampa's kids become eligible for free agency will they pony up to keep them? Probably not and then that good young corps of talent falls by the wayside.

Lip

White City
07-23-2009, 11:36 AM
The Right Sox will be in the playoffs, with or without Halladay; the Rays won't. And if we can make the playoffs without Halladay, then why trade for him, unless you are SURE we win the World Series with him. I don't sense that kind of certainty in such a trade, so hopefully we don't do that trade.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-23-2009, 11:40 AM
on my way home from work on 670 they were saying that the brewers can make a nice offer and may end up getting him.

And the Brewers farm system will be completely wiped out from CC and Halladay...at least they would get another full year out of Halladay.

Craig Grebeck
07-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Spawn:

Given that they are currently in 3rd place in that division regardless of their record makes my point appear to be valid no?

Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore may occasionally (very occasionally) luck out and win the division. (And I don't mean luck in a negative sense by the way, I can't think of another word) but they simply do not have the means or the will to compete with New York and Boston for talent.

Talent usually wins out over the course of 162 game season. Given that Tampa has had one winning season in their existence, Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs since what 1996 and Toronto since 1993 pretty much sums up their chances me thinks.

The big question now is when Tampa's kids become eligible for free agency will they pony up to keep them? Probably not and then that good young corps of talent falls by the wayside.

Lip
They've got more kids who will step in.

Jimmy Piersall
07-23-2009, 12:22 PM
They've got more kids who will step in.

So does everybody else.No guarantee they become as good as the guys
they will replace.

tacosalbarojas
07-23-2009, 12:29 PM
Phegly needs to show he is not the second coming of Donny Lucy.
Or the eighth coming of Joel Skinner.

spawn
07-23-2009, 12:30 PM
Spawn:

Given that they are currently in 3rd place in that division regardless of their record makes my point appear to be valid no?

Um, no. Not at all. They are 9 games over .500, and 5.5 games out of first. they are still very much in the WC race. And they had a slow start to the season. They have pretty good starting pitchingt and a very well rounded lineup with power and speed. They also have talent in the minors. You keep bringing up talent. Thanks to all of the seasons they finished at or near the bottom of the AL, they hae plenty of talent.

Craig Grebeck
07-23-2009, 12:30 PM
So does everybody else.No guarantee they become as good as the guys
they will replace.
Yeah, but the kids the Rays have are better than most.

Jimmy Piersall
07-23-2009, 12:34 PM
Yeah, but the kids the Rays have are better than most.

I guess we'll find out at some point...hit or miss on kids taking any
minor league success to the big time.

whitesoxfan
07-23-2009, 01:47 PM
Danks should still be virtually untouchable. An OF consisting of Quentin-Danks-Mitchell (or however you would configure it) would work for a good ten years. At least that's what we should be hoping for.

You can get Halladay without giving up Danks. A package centered around Poreda and Flowers with a couple of other prospects in there would work.

jabrch
07-23-2009, 04:49 PM
Danks should still be virtually untouchable. An OF consisting of Quentin-Danks-Mitchell (or however you would configure it) would work for a good ten years. At least that's what we should be hoping for.

You can get Halladay without giving up Danks. A package centered around Poreda and Flowers with a couple of other prospects in there would work.


But I would not possibly let Jordan Danks get in the way of adding Halladay to this rotation without having to give up a key piece on the major league roster...

DirtySox
07-23-2009, 04:54 PM
Supposedly Roy has a list of teams he would accept trades to as of today. I wonder who is on it.

whitesoxfan
07-23-2009, 05:00 PM
But I would not possibly let Jordan Danks get in the way of adding Halladay to this rotation without having to give up a key piece on the major league roster...

No question about that. Trading Danks takes precedence over trading Beckham or Alexei.

Like I said, they can still get a deal done without giving up Danks, I would believe.

Frater Perdurabo
07-23-2009, 07:07 PM
The one thing about trading Jordan Danks is this: Does it damage our long-term prospects of keeping John Danks?

Is trading Jordan Danks as part of a package for Halladay worth the long-term risk of alienating John Danks?

If so, I think you have to consider Jordan Danks to be "untouchable" at this point.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2009, 07:50 PM
Spawn:

Not sure what we're debating about.

Since the AL East was formed in 1994 those three clubs have grabbed (if memory serves) two post season spots....two.

Things have to align perfectly for them to even have a good chance. Hell things have to work out well for any of them to just have a "winning" season.

I can understand why you hear from time to time, Tampa trying to convince Proud To Be Your Bud to move them into the Central and kick Kansas City out west. They understand that nine times out of ten they have little to no chance against New York and Boston. It's a shame but that's reality.

Personally with interleague destroying the two leagues anyway, it's time for a complete realignment in my opinion.

Lip

jabrch
07-23-2009, 09:07 PM
The one thing about trading Jordan Danks is this: Does it damage our long-term prospects of keeping John Danks?

Is trading Jordan Danks as part of a package for Halladay worth the long-term risk of alienating John Danks?

If so, I think you have to consider Jordan Danks to be "untouchable" at this point.

I was thinking the same thing FP.

Noneck
07-23-2009, 09:11 PM
The one thing about trading Jordan Danks is this: Does it damage our long-term prospects of keeping John Danks?

Is trading Jordan Danks as part of a package for Halladay worth the long-term risk of alienating John Danks?

If so, I think you have to consider Jordan Danks to be "untouchable" at this point.

I don't know about that. I love my brother dearly but I sure as heck wouldn't want to work with him. So it could be just the opposite.

whitesoxfan
07-23-2009, 09:38 PM
I don't know about that. I love my brother dearly but I sure as heck wouldn't want to work with him. So it could be just the opposite.

You'd probably be in the minority though. I'm sure a big leaguer that's away from his family for most of the year would like a little bit of comfort and support with someone as close as your brother there with you on long road trips.

Regarding Frater's point, I actually think that's a big reason why Jordan Danks won't be traded.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2009, 12:30 AM
Would Halladay mind being the #2?

BigP50
07-24-2009, 12:39 AM
Would Halladay mind being the #2?



Doc doesn't seem like a guy that would get caught up in something silly like that.

BleacherBandit
07-24-2009, 12:40 AM
Would Halladay mind being the #2?

Hey if the metric of pitcher superiority is based on no-hitters, then he would have to. In that case, Greg Maddux would be a number two starter to Juan Nieves.

Craig Grebeck
07-24-2009, 12:45 AM
Would Halladay mind being the #2?
Wait, what?