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View Full Version : Southside Hitmen Redux?


voodoochile
07-22-2009, 12:19 PM
Just looking over some stats...

Every single sox starter save TCQ is hitting .260+.

Every single Sox starter save Getz has an OPS over .700 (Getz is at .698).

5 starters have batting averages over .290 with 3 of them over .300.

5 starters have slg% over .450 and TCQ is at .449. 3 are over .500 and one is over .550.

4 starters have OBP over .350 with PK at .349.

Considering how bad this team was offensively until Mid June, these are some great numbers...

BleacherBandit
07-22-2009, 12:28 PM
Well, I'm hoping to God that nobody slows down. I think that if Konerko can keep himself above .300 the whole season, he'll be the best candidate for comeback player of the year. If Dye and AJ can keep their averages above .290, that'll be awesome too. If Beckham can keep his average above .300, who knows, maybe he'll be in contention for rookie of the year. I can't think of another AL rookie playing as well as he is.

And if Podsednik can keep his average and OBP up, he should beat out Konerko or anybody else for comeback player of the year.

LITTLE NELL
07-22-2009, 12:53 PM
Hard to believe this is the same team hitting wise that we saw the 1st two months. Now all we need is a closer.

tstrike2000
07-22-2009, 01:35 PM
Hard to believe this is the same team hitting wise that we saw the 1st two months. Now all we need is a closer.

Most of the bullpen has been shaky lately, but it's not gonna stay that way.

voodoochile
07-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Please don't hijack this thread with a discussion about the bullpen. There are several other threads you can talk about that stuff in. This one is intended to be about the hitters. If it dies an ignoble ignored death, so be it...

BleacherBandit
07-22-2009, 01:55 PM
You know, am I entitled to be worried about Podsednik for the rest of the year? When he first started hitting consistently, I doubted he could keep it up for the whole year. Is it still possible that he loses it?

spawn
07-22-2009, 02:00 PM
What I love about the offense is it isn't reliant upon the 3-run homer anymore. Yes, we have the big boppers in the middle of the lineup, but we now have speed and consistency at the top and the bottom, of the order. If Thome, Dye, or Konerko aren't hitting, Pods, Getz, Beckham will scratch across a run. Whether we make the playoffs or not, I'm enjoying watching these guys, especially the rookies.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-22-2009, 02:03 PM
I love that everyone is hitting; I hope that it's indicative of HOW the lineup is structured. Speed, moving guys over, thunder in the middle with good solid hitting at the bottom make it fun to watch.

Let's hope the lineup continues to produce in the order (in general) that it's in now.....the more you move guys around in BO, the more problems you see because pitches aren't the same.

voodoochile
07-22-2009, 02:04 PM
You know, am I entitled to be worried about Podsednik for the rest of the year? When he first started hitting consistently, I doubted he could keep it up for the whole year. Is it still possible that he loses it?

I think this is overblown. Pods' Hamstring issues really didn't last that long. The problem he had the past few years were about a sports hernia which I believe he had surgery for. It takes time to recover from that, but he has. People assume he's fragile, and of course there are no guarantees, but he's not really an injury waiting to happen, IMO, merely someone who if he does get injured it costs the team. Honestly, right now with the development of Getz (who credits Pods for his improvement) and Beckham, the Sox might be able to get by without Pods - moving Getz into the leadoff role and hoping the extra protection he would get there would lead to a higher OBP.

Still, Pods has been the sparkplug this team needed when it was struggling. Now that Quentin is healthy and Beckham is coming alive, some of that need is mitigated a bit.

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Every single Sox starter save Getz has an OPS over .700 (Getz is at .698).
Fire Walker.

Brian26
07-22-2009, 02:08 PM
Fire Walker.

Edit: Ok, GMTA ...that is CRAZY.

voodoochile
07-22-2009, 02:15 PM
If the Sox average 6 runs a game the rest of the way, they will end up at 845...

Noneck
07-22-2009, 03:23 PM
Hard to believe this is the same team hitting wise that we saw the 1st two months. Now all we need is a closer.

Well Jenks has been no Lerrin LaGrow of 77.

Tragg
07-22-2009, 03:30 PM
You know, am I entitled to be worried about Podsednik for the rest of the year? When he first started hitting consistently, I doubted he could keep it up for the whole year. Is it still possible that he loses it?
If he does, our O is in trouble.
.360+ obps atop the order are rather helpful, shall we say.

moving Getz into the leadoff role and hoping the extra protection he would get there would lead to a higher OBP.

Getz is being platooned right now. He's a long way from batting leadoff, I'd say.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-22-2009, 03:42 PM
What I love about the offense is it isn't reliant upon the 3-run homer anymore. Yes, we have the big boppers in the middle of the lineup, but we now have speed and consistency at the top and the bottom, of the order. If Thome, Dye, or Konerko aren't hitting, Pods, Getz, Beckham will scratch across a run. Whether we make the playoffs or not, I'm enjoying watching these guys, especially the rookies.

Well put! :thumbsup:

I'm enjoying watching the rookies, too. And the revamped veteran leadoff man.

ode to veeck
07-22-2009, 03:49 PM
the back end of the order has been hitting nicely, besides Getz and Beckham who are really tearing it up at times even the other benchwarmers have been doing better

voodoochile
07-22-2009, 03:58 PM
Getz is being platooned right now. He's a long way from batting leadoff, I'd say.

It's not a strict platoon is it? He's faced some lefties this year and actually has slightly better splits against them albeit in only 42 AB.

Obviously he shouldn't be given the job barring an emergency, but should Pods need a couple of games off, Getz might be worth a look.

gobears1987
07-22-2009, 04:06 PM
FIRE GREG WALKER!!!

I want some people to go eat some crow right now. Come foward.

spawn
07-22-2009, 04:14 PM
FIRE GREG WALKER!!!

I want some people to go eat some crow right now. Come foward.
Hold your horses. If the bats go cold again, you'll be asked to eat crow. I think it's a silly argument both ways.

gobears1987
07-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Hold your horses. If the bats go cold again, you'll be asked to eat crow. I think it's a silly argument both ways.
I just think that it is silly to blame the hitting coach or give them credit. It's the players who need to produce. It isn't Walker's fault if PK, Dye, or Beckham goes through a slump. It's on the players.

BleacherBandit
07-22-2009, 04:31 PM
Hold your horses. If the bats go cold again, you'll be asked to eat crow. I think it's a silly argument both ways.

And I doubt Walker is THAT responsible for the spark of offense as of late. I don't believe that a hitting coach can have that much influence on the ups and downs of an offense. This is regular.

spawn
07-22-2009, 04:36 PM
I just think that it is silly to blame the hitting coach or give them credit. It's the players who need to produce. It isn't Walker's fault if PK, Dye, or Beckham goes through a slump. It's on the players.

And I doubt Walker is THAT responsible for the spark of offense as of late. I don't believe that a hitting coach can have that much influence on the ups and downs of an offense. This is regular.
That's why I said it was a silly argument both ways.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2009, 04:51 PM
Voodoo:

Some great points and I think the talent level on the club is far better than in April / early May because you don't have stiffs like Corky Miller, Mike MacDougal, Jerry Owens, Brett Lillibridge or Wilson Betemit around anymore.

But that also begs the question, why is this team only three games over .500 with a schedule that was far easier in the first half than in the second?

Something is missing but I don't know what it is.

Lip

spawn
07-22-2009, 04:53 PM
Voodoo:

Some great points and I think the talent level on the club is far better than in April / early May because you don't have stiffs like Corky Miller, Mike MacDougal, Jerry Owens, Brett Lillibridge or Wilson Betemit around anymore.

But that also begs the question, why is this team only three games over .500 with a schedule that was far easier in the first half than in the second?

Something is missing but I don't know what it is.

Lip
The offense was missing for a good part of the first half of the season. They are something like 11 games over .500 since the end of May. That was a stat thrown up during the game last night, but I don't have the exact numbers.

Tragg
07-22-2009, 04:54 PM
It's not a strict platoon is it? He's faced some lefties this year and actually has slightly better splits against them albeit in only 42 AB.

Obviously he shouldn't be given the job barring an emergency, but should Pods need a couple of games off, Getz might be worth a look.
I think Oz looks at lefty/righty fairly mechanically when he has 2 hitters that he sees are equally adept. Nix PH in the 9th yesterday, e.g.

Let's face it - Beckham is a top of the order hitter. He may be the leadoff man eventually although I know it's not ideal.
Pods has been absolutely key - we are 6 out without him- but I don't see him as any more than .340 obp long term.....I think we can do better, long term. But I'm liking the run in 09.

voodoochile
07-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Voodoo:

Some great points and I think the talent level on the club is far better than in April / early May because you don't have stiffs like Corky Miller, Mike MacDougal, Jerry Owens, Brett Lillibridge or Wilson Betemit around anymore.

But that also begs the question, why is this team only three games over .500 with a schedule that was far easier in the first half than in the second?

Something is missing but I don't know what it is.

Lip


You've answered some of you own question.

Why are they only 3 games over .500?

Because they spent too much time with stiffs like Miller, MacDougal, Owens, Lillibridge and Betemit with stiffs like Fields and Wise/BA starting

Since turning those stiffs into Pods, TCQ and Beckham starting with Castro, Pena, Nix, Wise and Fields on the bench, it's pretty obvious why the team is 17-9 over it's last 26 games

voodoochile
07-22-2009, 05:14 PM
I think Oz looks at lefty/righty fairly mechanically when he has 2 hitters that he sees are equally adept. Nix PH in the 9th yesterday, e.g.

Let's face it - Beckham is a top of the order hitter. He may be the leadoff man eventually although I know it's not ideal.
Pods has been absolutely key - we are 6 out without him- but I don't see him as any more than .340 obp long term.....I think we can do better, long term. But I'm liking the run in 09.

I disagree, but our viewpoint on Ozzie and his management style are so far apart it's not worth discussing this any further.

TDog
07-22-2009, 05:49 PM
... Let's face it - Beckham is a top of the order hitter. He may be the leadoff man eventually although I know it's not ideal. ....

I believe Beckham is hitting well in part because he is hitting lower in the order. I've seen that with some hitters for years. In the American League, it's not that unusual to see No. 8 or 9 hitters hitting over or close to .300, setting the table for the top of the order and driving in runners from the middle of the order. I think pitchers might make adjustments to him quick if he were hitting higher in the order, but I honestly don't know if they have started adjusting to him yet. If they have been, he has kept up with adjustments of his own.

If there is an injury or a protracted slump, I could see him moving up, but I think he is better off hitting ninth, in front of Podsednik. I don't see any reason to move him out of the bottom third of the order.

Honestly, I don't always agree with Guillen's moves -- I make it clear when I don't -- but I have no problem with his lineup.

As for the original point of the thread, I think it points to the hitting evolving better than I expected it to. The key to the Sox this season (and perhaps into perpetuity) will always be the pitching. For all the complaints people have about the starters and the bullpen, the Sox have the best rotation and bullpen in their division.