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View Full Version : Nats about to go 0 for their last 2 first picks?


DC Sox Fan
07-21-2009, 09:33 PM
ESPN is saying that the Nationals are likely not going to sign overall #1 pick Stephen Strasburg. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4346344

Many folks here saying the "source close to the negotiations" is indeed Bora$, trying to play the roll of :dtroll: and frighten the Nats into shelling out whatever his client demands.


I personally don't see how they could possibly go without signing their #1 overall pick in back to back years, especially after the backlash they faced last year.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-21-2009, 09:52 PM
I'm not siding with the Nationals, but the league has to do something about Boras. The guy is a crook. I don't care how much upside/potential/"can't miss" a rookie has, but their has got to be a limit to what their signed at.

SoxSpeed22
07-21-2009, 10:00 PM
This is another case in why there has to be a draft salary scale. Teams like the Pirates, Nats and Padres (Matt Bush got arrested again) ****ed themselves by drafting for signability instead of talent.
The reason that the draft is there in the first place is so the teams at the bottom can catch up by getting better talent. That has not been the case for baseball. Agents have taken the draft hostage, it needs to stop.

DumpJerry
07-21-2009, 10:06 PM
I'm not siding with the Nationals, but the league has to do something about Boras. The guy is a crook. I don't care how much upside/potential/"can't miss" a rookie has, but their has got to be a limit to what their signed at.
Other than a slotting system, there is nothing MLB "can do" about Borass. The only people who can change Borass are his clients and potential clients. If high school and college stud players start telling him they are signing up with different agents who have had more success at signing high draft picks, he'll change his stripes.

dickallen15
07-21-2009, 10:17 PM
First thing, they should change their name to the Generals. Second, they will most likely have the top 2 picks next year so they can draft him again and maybe even save a little money.

getonbckthr
07-22-2009, 12:09 PM
Strasburgh has an interesting decision ahead of him. He could sign for 12-15 million or whatever Washington is offering or he could gamble play in an independent league, hope he doesn't get hurt and maybe sign for his 40-50 next year.

dickallen15
07-22-2009, 12:13 PM
Strasburgh has an interesting decision ahead of him. He could sign for 12-15 million or whatever Washington is offering or he could gamble play in an independent league, hope he doesn't get hurt and maybe sign for his 40-50 next year.

When the Nationals draft him again?

Domeshot17
07-22-2009, 12:13 PM
Strasburgh has an interesting decision ahead of him. He could sign for 12-15 million or whatever Washington is offering or he could gamble play in an independent league, hope he doesn't get hurt and maybe sign for his 40-50 next year.

Only if whoever drafts him again signs him for that much.

Truth be told, If I was a player in the draft, I would sign with Boras. The guy is fantastic at his job.

If you had the choice of 12-15 million now or 20 grand playing indy ball now and then 30 mil next year, which would you choose?

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 12:15 PM
The Washington Senators were actually called the Washington Nationals from 1905-1955, but everyone called them the Senators. That version of the Senators is the team who moved to Minnesota and is now known, by five or six individuals, as the "Perpetual Losers."

Sounds like when you adapt a name (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/), you get the baggage.

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 12:22 PM
Only if whoever drafts him again signs him for that much.

Truth be told, If I was a player in the draft, I would sign with Boras. The guy is fantastic at his job.

If you had the choice of 12-15 million now or 20 grand playing indy ball now and then 30 mil next year, which would you choose?
I disagree. If I were a prospect and Borass came knocking on my door, I would treat him like the guy who tried to get my sister drunk and alone at his parents' house the previous weekend.

A couple of things this Strasburg idiot needs to understand:
1. He raked up fantastic numbers playing in a college conference that is not the top of the top tier. When he faced real teams in the CWS, he did not do as well. As an comparison, look at the last six Cub games. They walk all over the Nationals like they are World Killers and then get their butts handed to them by a real team (Phillies).
2. Yeah, go independent. Go to Japan. If your numbers do not hold up, and they probably won't, your contract price will drop. Sucka.

I have a eight year old nephew who can, right now, negotiate a deal with the Nationals for Strasburg that will leave the young man set for life financially. It is that easy. Borass is just getting too greedy to be effective.

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 12:23 PM
Keep in mind, Jordan Danks fired Borass shortly after he was drafted by the Sox. Borass is useless.

dickallen15
07-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Keep in mind, Jordan Danks fired Borass shortly after he was drafted by the Sox. Borass is useless.

Also ask Matt Harrington how being repped by Boras worked out. If I was an established player, Boras would be the guy if I wanted every last dollar, but as an amateur just drafted, you are playing with fire.

JorgeFabregas
07-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Is Aaron Crow going to get more money by waiting for a year? I doubt it.

Sames goes for Strasburg. That strategy isn't going to work unless he's simply trying to lower his draft stock so that a more competent organization can take him (and still pay him less than he would've this year).

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 12:36 PM
Also ask Matt Harrington how being repped by Boras worked out. If I was an established player, Boras would be the guy if I wanted every last dollar, but as an amateur just drafted, you are playing with fire.
That is the conventional wisdom about Borass for vet players. However, if you're a stud, any agent who can talk in complete sentences can get you a sweet deal. Can Borass get you one that is better? That is not known since there is no competitive negotiating between agents.

Borass was fired by some of this high profile clients the last couple of years (Kenny Rogers, Alex Rodriquez to name two) and they seemed to make out ok. I realize ARod still had to use him for contract review after firing him, but nonetheless, vet players seem to feel they don't need him to piss off the management of their new (or present) team sometimes.

jdm2662
07-22-2009, 12:38 PM
Also ask Matt Harrington how being repped by Boras worked out. If I was an established player, Boras would be the guy if I wanted every last dollar, but as an amateur just drafted, you are playing with fire.

Bingo. If I'm a FA, Borass is my guy. If I just got drafted, no thanks. BorASS doesn't care about these young guys careers. He just wants his big signing bonus.

jdm2662
07-22-2009, 12:41 PM
Only if whoever drafts him again signs him for that much.

Truth be told, If I was a player in the draft, I would sign with Boras. The guy is fantastic at his job.

If you had the choice of 12-15 million now or 20 grand playing indy ball now and then 30 mil next year, which would you choose?

Nothing is guarenteed in life. He could flame out playing for peanuts, injure his arm, etc. Take the $20 million now. Because, if he flames out in the minors, he still walks with a lot of money.

thedudeabides
07-22-2009, 12:41 PM
When the Nationals draft him again?

The rules of the collective bargaining agreement say The Nationals will not be allowed to draft him again, unless Strasburg gives them permission. That is not going to happen.

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Nothing is guarenteed in life. He could flame out playing for peanuts, injure his arm, etc. Take the $20 million now. Because, if he flames out in the minors, he still walks with a lot of money.
That is why I called Strasburg an idiot in my post.

jdm2662
07-22-2009, 12:50 PM
That is why I called Strasburg an idiot in my post.

No doubt. To me, I hate when players who haven't proven a damn thing getting these large ass bonuses. It's a problem in football, and a problem in baseball. It was a problem in basketball before they put an end to it. I have no problem with the likes of Santana, Halliday, etc. getting big bucks. They earned the right to be paid as much. Prospects are just that. They may never do a damn thing in the majors, yet, still walk with a decent check.

DumpJerry
07-22-2009, 01:03 PM
No doubt. To me, I hate when players who haven't proven a damn thing getting these large ass bonuses. It's a problem in football, and a problem in baseball. It was a problem in basketball before they put an end to it. I have no problem with the likes of Santana, Halliday, etc. getting big bucks. They earned the right to be paid as much. Prospects are just that. They may never do a damn thing in the majors, yet, still walk with a decent check.
:LTP
I have no problem with it.

DSpivack
07-22-2009, 01:04 PM
The rules of the collective bargaining agreement say The Nationals will not be allowed to draft him again, unless Strasburg gives them permission. That is not going to happen.

Are you sure about that? I read in DC pubs [WaPo and others] that the Nats were considering drafting Aaron Crow again with their 2nd 1st round pick in the June draft this season.

thedudeabides
07-22-2009, 01:16 PM
Are you sure about that? I read in DC pubs [WaPo and others] that the Nats were considering drafting Aaron Crow again with their 2nd 1st round pick in the June draft this season.

They wanted to, but couldn't get permission from Crow. The Pirates also didn't get pemission from Scheppers.

jabrch
07-22-2009, 01:22 PM
I can't see him passing up 15mm or 20mm or whatever. I just don't see it. Smells like bull**** to me. Way too much risk for him.

And if he does, and gets drafted next year by SD or Oak or some other crappy team, what's to say they won't bargain the same way.

This isn't Boras' fault. It's the fault of any owner who caves in. They shouldn't need to have rules to stop themselves from being stupid. And I would hate to see some set of rules that just assures us he ends up a Yankee/Red Sox/Cub/Dodger or some other stupid team that can trade for him and pay him. Best players should go to the worst teams. It's bad enough some guys already slip because teams would rather not risk losing a 1st (even though they'd only be delaying it for one year). It would be even worse if the rules facilitate the rich to get richer.

If he doesn't sign with Wash, and gets drafted next year by Oakland, won't the As have a ton of leverage? Is he willing to wait ANOTHER year to hope some foolish team with a high pick will pay him?

I don't begrudge the kid for trying to get all he can. But I sure don't want to see the rules changed to make it easier on him.

whitesoxfan
07-22-2009, 01:48 PM
The Nationals are going to have the first draft pick again next year as well as a top 10 compensatory pick.

If I'm them, I just say screw it and draft Strasburg again and virtually make him sign. He'd have to sign with them then, right? Otherwise he'd begin to lose a lot of money by not playing professional baseball for over a year.

Mohoney
07-23-2009, 01:52 PM
Is Aaron Crow going to get more money by waiting for a year? I doubt it.

Sames goes for Strasburg. That strategy isn't going to work unless he's simply trying to lower his draft stock so that a more competent organization can take him (and still pay him less than he would've this year).

I'm thinking it's more about the money with Strasburg, but you bring up a very interesting point. If top-tier players are allowed to make unreasonable demands to purposely get drafted lower by a better team, doesn't that kill the whole point of the draft?

mzh
07-23-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm thinking it's more about the money with Strasburg, but you bring up a very interesting point. If top-tier players are allowed to make unreasonable demands to purposely get drafted lower by a better team, doesn't that kill the whole point of the draft?

Maybe the World Series winner should get the #1 overall pick!

What I would really want to know about this is whether Strasburg is making these ridiculous demands on his own accord or was pushed by borass?

PatK
07-23-2009, 04:39 PM
A couple of things this Strasburg idiot needs to understand:
1. He raked up fantastic numbers playing in a college conference that is not the top of the top tier. When he faced real teams in the CWS, he did not do as well. As an comparison, look at the last six Cub games. They walk all over the Nationals like they are World Killers and then get their butts handed to them by a real team (Phillies).

Yeah, he really came down to Earth in the CWS.

jabrch
07-23-2009, 04:42 PM
I'm thinking it's more about the money with Strasburg, but you bring up a very interesting point. If top-tier players are allowed to make unreasonable demands to purposely get drafted lower by a better team, doesn't that kill the whole point of the draft?

Only if teams don't call their bluff. If these guys know they won't all get away with it, they are less likely to try.

jabrch
07-23-2009, 04:43 PM
What I would really want to know about this is whether Strasburg is making these ridiculous demands on his own accord or was pushed by borass?


I'll give you two guess....and your only option to choose from is that Boras is orchestrating this.

...
07-23-2009, 05:02 PM
The Nationals are going to have the first draft pick again next year as well as a top 10 compensatory pick.

If I'm them, I just say screw it and draft Strasburg again and virtually make him sign. He'd have to sign with them then, right? Otherwise he'd begin to lose a lot of money by not playing professional baseball for over a year.

No, the Nationals would not be able to draft Strasburg again next year without his permission. In addition, he would be playing baseball in an independent league as opposed to sitting out an entire year.

whitesoxfan
07-23-2009, 05:58 PM
No, the Nationals would not be able to draft Strasburg again next year without his permission. In addition, he would be playing baseball in an independent league as opposed to sitting out an entire year.

All right, thanks for clearing that up.

TDog
07-23-2009, 06:12 PM
I hope he signs with the Nationals. Not signing when you're being offered millions of dollars would be downright stupid.

If he doesn't sign, I would hope he ends up never pitching in the major leagues as an object lesson for people who turn down that kind of money. I've read stories about prospects who turn down millions of dollars because they can throw hard, turn down paltry multi-million-dollar-bonus offers, lose velocity and never get drafted again, but they don't get wide enough circulation.

I may takes Boras destroying a couple of promising careers for this insanity to end.

soltrain21
07-23-2009, 06:15 PM
I hope he signs with the Nationals. Not signing when you're being offered millions of dollars would be downright stupid.

If he doesn't sign, I would hope he ends up never pitching in the major leagues as an object lesson for people who turn down that kind of money. I've read stories about prospects who turn down millions of dollars because they can throw hard, turn down paltry multi-million-dollar-bonus offers, lose velocity and never get drafted again, but they don't get wide enough circulation.

I may takes Boras destroying a couple of promising careers for this insanity to end.

Yeah, I mean I don't cheer injuries at all - but I'd laugh pretty hard if he doesn't sign and then blows out his elbow sometime in the next year.

Sign the contract, dude. Guess what kind of payday you'll get eventually if you are the real deal.

Mohoney
07-23-2009, 11:11 PM
Only if teams don't call their bluff. If these guys know they won't all get away with it, they are less likely to try.

All it would take is for him to fall to the Yankees. They would pay something close to that money without thinking twice.

doublem23
07-24-2009, 12:26 AM
Yeah, he really came down to Earth in the CWS.

Didn't he only have 1 start in the CWS?

Whatever, if Strasburg wants to risk it and go independent for a year, who cares? The Nats will wind up with the 1st and 10th pick in next year's draft, I think they'll be OK.

Big D
07-24-2009, 12:31 AM
I'll be stunned if he doesn't ultimately sign. I have a hard time imagining anyone turn down what will be the biggest bonus in draft history. All this is just posturing by Boras to scare the Nats into ponying up more money. Boras rarely starts seriously negotiating until the last minute, so I would take any pronouncements about the negotiations with a grain of salt from now until the deadline.

jabrch
07-24-2009, 07:37 AM
All it would take is for him to fall to the Yankees. They would pay something close to that money without thinking twice.

But he won't....with the rules around getting a compensation pick, someone else will take a shot at him. After sitting out (playing indy ball) a new team will have a lot of leverage over him. He can't really sit out (playing indy ball) two years in a row. The Nats couldn't draft him, but the Pads, Royals or Indians all could. And given the fact that he would have missed his first chance, I can't see them passing on him - much less the next dozen teams...

soxfanreggie
07-24-2009, 09:47 AM
I'm not going to tell any player what he can or can't do, but I can voice my opinion on what I think he should do. Personally, if I were him, I'd sign. That being said, it's his life. He doesn't have to even play baseball if he doesn't want to.

khan
07-24-2009, 11:03 AM
This isn't Boras' fault. It's the fault of any owner who caves in. They shouldn't need to have rules to stop themselves from being stupid.
You'd think so. But in light of the steroid era, where there were no specific penalties in MLB associated with steroid/HGH useage, I tend to disagree here. There are many examples, both inside and outside MLB of rules that are meant to protect the stupid. [Seatbelt laws, smoking ordinances, speed limits, etc...] I see no reason why rules shouldn't be enacted and enforced to prevent the overpayment of unproven prospects.

Bill Veeck taught us that it wasn't the high prices of stars that was a problem in MLB. It was the high prices of mediocrity that was [and still is] a problem. Unfortunately, most "prospects" end up being mediocrities.

And I would hate to see some set of rules that just assures us he ends up a Yankee/Red Sox/Cub/Dodger or some other stupid team that can trade for him and pay him. Best players should go to the worst teams. It's bad enough some guys already slip because teams would rather not risk losing a 1st (even though they'd only be delaying it for one year). It would be even worse if the rules facilitate the rich to get richer.

And this is already occurring. Many players in the draft are selected for "signability," not for being the best player or the best fit going to the worst teams. Additionally, the lack of an international amateur draft virtually assures that the rich get richer, internationally. A lack of a professional transfer system further assures that the rich teams get richer off the extant pros in other leagues.

I don't begrudge the kid for trying to get all he can. But I sure don't want to see the rules changed to make it easier on him.
I don't begrudge him trying to get all he can, either. But he's a prospect. Not a veteran, not an all star, and not a HOF candidate. The current system helps mediocrities get overpaid, unfortunately.

AZChiSoxFan
07-24-2009, 12:30 PM
Yeah, he really came down to Earth in the CWS.

CWS??? In his dreams. They didn't even get to the Super Regional. They (he) flamed out in the regional.

Mr. Man
07-24-2009, 01:36 PM
In addition, he would be playing baseball in an independent league as opposed to sitting out an entire year.


Strasburg was only a Junior at SDSU last year (2008-9) so he wouldn't have to go play in the Northern League (like JD Drew did with the St Paul Saints) ... He'd be able to go back and finish out his college career - since he hasn't signed Boras as his agent.

Boras is acting as his "advisor" not his agent. Brien Taylor had the same relationship with Boras (http://homerderby.com/archives/3547) when he milked the Yankees back in 1992.

That "advising" thing is a gigantic load of carp if you ask me.

tsoxman
07-25-2009, 12:25 PM
This is another case in why there has to be a draft salary scale. Teams like the Pirates, Nats and Padres (Matt Bush got arrested again) ****ed themselves by drafting for signability instead of talent.
The reason that the draft is there in the first place is so the teams at the bottom can catch up by getting better talent. That has not been the case for baseball. Agents have taken the draft hostage, it needs to stop.

Exactly...and the irony is that these better players fall to the bottom of the draft where the rich teams snap them up. To thinkk that the Tiogers were able to draft a guy like Rick porcello the year after making the World Series boggles the mind.

pearso66
07-25-2009, 10:11 PM
Yeah, I mean I don't cheer injuries at all - but I'd laugh pretty hard if he doesn't sign and then blows out his elbow sometime in the next year.

Sign the contract, dude. Guess what kind of payday you'll get eventually if you are the real deal.

I said this when there were rumors that Boras wanted to take him to Japan. I don't normally cheer injuries either, but if he would blow out his arm, it would stop this crap from happening, and most players would sign just to get the one deal for a couple million.

Steelrod
07-26-2009, 04:17 AM
Only if whoever drafts him again signs him for that much.

Truth be told, If I was a player in the draft, I would sign with Boras. The guy is fantastic at his job.

If you had the choice of 12-15 million now or 20 grand playing indy ball now and then 30 mil next year, which would you choose?
Tell it to Joe Crede!

34rancher
07-26-2009, 09:04 AM
Didn't he only have 1 start in the CWS?

Whatever, if Strasburg wants to risk it and go independent for a year, who cares? The Nats will wind up with the 1st and 10th pick in next year's draft, I think they'll be OK.
Not a top 10, if they continue to be the worst team, they will get 1 and 1a next year. I say lock out negotiations until you get 1, 1a-1f

soxfanreggie
07-26-2009, 10:04 AM
I think that the benefit of going to Japan is that he could probably sign a 1 year deal that gives him a 7-figure deal. He should then take a portion of that and sign a huge Lloyd's of London policy on himself to secure some of that future earnings potential. He would probably be able to get an insurance contract through the NCAA but not the 7-figure payday.

SoxFan1979
07-27-2009, 12:16 AM
The Washington Senators were actually called the Washington Nationals from 1905-1955, but everyone called them the Senators. That version of the Senators is the team who moved to Minnesota and is now known, by five or six individuals, as the "Perpetual Losers."

Sounds like when you adapt a name (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/), you get the baggage.

:D: I like that nick name.

gobears1987
07-27-2009, 01:42 AM
If he doesn't sign with the Nats, then I hope he gets injured playing in Japan or wherever he goes. It isn't that I want him to get hurt so much as something like that needs to happen so that young players can have an example to look at and see that you're playing with fire when you deal with Scott Boras. I just wish more teams would follow the Sox example and blackball his clients. The ****er is ruining the game.

I know I sound classless, but I think the way Boras and Strasburg are out of line here and destroying the entire point of having a draft.

jabrch
07-27-2009, 09:45 AM
I think that the benefit of going to Japan is that he could probably sign a 1 year deal that gives him a 7-figure deal. He should then take a portion of that and sign a huge Lloyd's of London policy on himself to secure some of that future earnings potential. He would probably be able to get an insurance contract through the NCAA but not the 7-figure payday.


I don't believe he can go for just one year. Just as if he came here, he'd be under team control for 6 years, don't they have similar rules there?

soxfan43
07-27-2009, 10:16 AM
He's gonna sign. It'll go down to the wire but it will get done. The Nationals need him and it's just too much money to turn down. but this is a huge problem for MLB and the NFL. These rookies that have proven nothing are getting bigger contracts than proven veteran players. Ridiculous.

soxfanreggie
07-27-2009, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure what he'd have to sign for over there; it might be a situation that the commissioner of their league rules on. I'm sure he'd be worth millions for their league in coverage (ESPN would be all over this) and tickets sold to see the "Phenom" pitch. It could set a dangerous precedent over there though. If he's going all for the money and can get it over there though rather than competing in the MLB, then who knows, he might sign over there anyway.

If I were a prospect like him, I'd be ecstatic if someone wanted to offer me $25 million or so (guaranteed). Granted, if I could get $30 million, I'd go for it, but not at the expense of sitting out a year.