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View Full Version : I have a crappy contract - and I suck


jabrch
07-21-2009, 12:19 PM
Hello, my name is Alfonso. I will earn 90mm through 2014. I'm a career .280/.330 hitter who is hitting .244/.309/.436 this year. But I get to play for the world's greatest fans thanks to Hendry's giant ego/bankroll.

Hello, my name is Chris. I will earn 25mm through 2014. I'm a 5 tool player. On my career, I hit .235/.303/.438. This year, I am hitting .200/.294/.374. But, it is nice and sunny here in the desert. and I got coin in the bank - thanks to a dumb GM.

Hello, my name is Vernon. I will make 107mm through 2014. For my career, I hit .280/.330/.475. This year, I am hitting .263/.312/.411. The good news is that those averages are in Canadian. The bad news is that the conversion rate from a canadian SLG% to a US SLG% is 1:1. This is what happens when people become GMs who haven't been around long enough to get it. Toronto should have kept JP runing BBs calculator.

Hello, my name is Alex. I will make 60mm through 2014. I'm just a cheap version of Vernon. JP took nearly 300mm of Toronto's money and completely wasted it on me and my gang...

Hello, my name is Barry. I will earn 76mm through 2014. My ERA is close to 5. My WHIP sucks too. Since Sabes gave me tons of money, I have done jack ****. But I play the guitar...

I'm glad our GM has avoided these deals...Who else?

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2009, 12:21 PM
I'd say Chris Young doesn't belong in this group. There was a lot of reason to believe he'd make progress and become a good to great center fielder in the mold of Mike Cameron.

The rest, of course, I agree with.

LoveYourSuit
07-21-2009, 12:27 PM
With the current collapse of the US economy and the removal PEDs in baseball .... it's kind of not fair to judge these GMs for such mistakes.


Baseball is a total different game because of $$$ and drugs(removal) lately.

BleacherBandit
07-21-2009, 12:29 PM
Vernon Wells may have a ****ty contract for the Jays, but I wouldn't ever say he sucks. Even this season, he's only playing sub-par according to his career statistics. I wouldn't say he's playing terribly.

goon
07-21-2009, 12:34 PM
With the current collapse of the US economy and the removal PEDs in baseball .... it's kind of not fair to judge these GMs for such mistakes.


I don't really get how this applies to giving the players listed absurd contracts. When Soriano was signed, a lot of people criticized. When Zito signed, people thought the Giants were crazy. Considering that there were those questioning those deals when they were given out, I don't see why it is unfair to judge them now. PED and the economy have nothing to do with it.

Those deals are just ****ing AWFUL. The Zito, Soriano and Wells contracts were given out because the GM's of those teams were feeling pressure to just "make a move".

goon
07-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Vernon Wells may have a ****ty contract for the Jays, but I wouldn't ever say he sucks. Even this season, he's only playing sub-par according to his career statistics. I wouldn't say he's playing terribly.

Vernon Wells is a good player, but he's not living up to that contract.

kobo
07-21-2009, 12:37 PM
I don't really get how this applies to giving the players listed absurd contracts. When Soriano was signed, a lot of people criticized. When Zito signed, people thought the Giants were crazy. Considering that there were those questioning those deals when they were given out, I don't see why it is unfair to judge them now. PED and the economy have nothing to do with it.

Those deals are just ****ing AWFUL. The Zito, Soriano and Wells contracts were given out because the GM's of those teams were feeling pressure to just "make a move".
Great post. Those signings were questioned from the beginning, especially the Soriano and Zito signings. They look worse now due to the economy but these GM's have no one to blame but themselves.

LoveYourSuit
07-21-2009, 12:43 PM
I don't really get how this applies to giving the players listed absurd contracts. When Soriano was signed, a lot of people criticized. When Zito signed, people thought the Giants were crazy. Considering that there were those questioning those deals when they were given out, I don't see why it is unfair to judge them now. PED and the economy have nothing to do with it.

Those deals are just ****ing AWFUL. The Zito, Soriano and Wells contracts were given out because the GM's of those teams were feeling pressure to just "make a move".


It is because people expected salaries to keep on escalating at that same pace. Then all of sudden the brakes were slammed and now they look even worse than when those contracts were signed.

gobears1987
07-21-2009, 12:43 PM
As bad as Soriano's deal is, Fukudome is looking to be right up there.

I think the Tigers are feeling the same way about Maggs, but he's in his last year now.

Big D
07-21-2009, 12:46 PM
Jose Guillen would like to add himself to the list of players who suck and are overpaid:

http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/1336679.html

khan
07-21-2009, 12:59 PM
Hello, my name is Gary. After never having hit more than .275 in any season, nor hit more than 17 HR, I had my one lucky year where I hit .313 & 19 HR in a bandbox in Texas. My agent and I parlayed this to get a stupid moron to sign me to a 5 year, $50M contract.

Almost immediately after robbing my new employer of this money, some geezer named George Mitchell put me into a report with a lot of other [alleged] cheating losers.

Ever since then, my batting average, OBP, and OPS have been in free fall. My line for this year is .229/.290/.320, with a grand total of 2 HR. I'm already 34, and I suck. But cheer up, because you'll get to watch me steal money until I'm 36.

I'd like to say that every time you as a fan complain about the cost of going to a game, think of me, my [allegedy] cheating ways, and my tasty $50M.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-21-2009, 01:12 PM
I wish MLB had more performance based contracts like pretty much every NFL contract. That is the standard in the NFL.

asindc
07-21-2009, 01:17 PM
I wish MLB had more performance based contracts like pretty much every NFL contract. That is the standard in the NFL.

No guaranteed contracts would solve a multitude of ills in both the NBA and MLB.

thedudeabides
07-21-2009, 01:18 PM
I don't really get how this applies to giving the players listed absurd contracts. When Soriano was signed, a lot of people criticized. When Zito signed, people thought the Giants were crazy. Considering that there were those questioning those deals when they were given out, I don't see why it is unfair to judge them now. PED and the economy have nothing to do with it.

Those deals are just ****ing AWFUL. The Zito, Soriano and Wells contracts were given out because the GM's of those teams were feeling pressure to just "make a move".

All three of those were given in the winter of 2006 when testing was already in place. All three moves were looked at as desperate contracts, even before they all started underperforming.

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2009, 01:36 PM
As bad as Soriano's deal is, Fukudome is looking to be right up there.

I think the Tigers are feeling the same way about Maggs, but he's in his last year now.
.812 OPS out of CF doesn't look so bad right now. Not nearly as bad as Soriano.

goon
07-21-2009, 01:38 PM
It is because people expected salaries to keep on escalating at that same pace. Then all of sudden the brakes were slammed and now they look even worse than when those contracts were signed.

The belief that salaries were going to increase is true, but you can't tell me that at any time those signings were universally, or in the least, largly viewed as "good deals". When Soriano and Zito were signed most everyone who knew anything about baseball thought they were **** deals. They were **** deals then and they are even worse now.

LoveYourSuit
07-21-2009, 01:43 PM
The belief that salaries were going to increase is true, but you can't tell me that at any time those signings were universally, or in the least, largly viewed as "good deals". When Soriano and Zito were signed most everyone who knew anything about baseball thought they were **** deals. They were **** deals then and they are even worse now.


Oh, I agree. All those deals were **** deals. But it was the going market. It's not line any of those teams were bidding amongst themselves like Texas did with A-rod.

Heck, many people see Paulie's deal as a **** deal too. Now that he is producing all is fine. But last year, forget about it.

goon
07-21-2009, 01:44 PM
.812 OPS out of CF doesn't look so bad right now. Not nearly as bad as Soriano.

In a total of 776 AB's Fukudome has 17 HR, 44 2B and a batting average of .259.

Yeah he walks, hence the good .OPS he has this year, but he doesn't hit for power and he's not a natural CF. For what he's being paid, it's a god awful contract.

goon
07-21-2009, 01:52 PM
Oh, I agree. All those deals were **** deals. But it was the going market. It's not line any of those teams were bidding amongst themselves like Texas did with A-rod.


I don't know, it was pretty much acknowledged that a lot of these teams severely overpaid when these contracts were given out. I don't feel like it's unfair to rip the GM's now because most were ripping them back when the made the deals anyway.

jabrch
07-21-2009, 02:23 PM
If Williams was responsible for one of these deals, the Anti-Kenny crowd would be all over his ass. If he were paying Chris Young 6mm a year to hit like BA or Wise, can you imagine?

If he were paying Zito to pitch like Richard, can you imagine?

If Fukudome took the Sox offer, can you imagine?

If he made a big splash in Soriano - can you imagine?

Sure - sometimes we let some guys get away....Magglio (who wouldn't let our doctors see medical records) is an example. But what we avoid is so much more significant than what we have ever lost out on...

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2009, 02:27 PM
If Williams was responsible for one of these deals, the Anti-Kenny crowd would be all over his ass. If he were paying Chris Young 6mm a year to hit like BA or Wise, can you imagine?

If he were paying Zito to pitch like Richard, can you imagine?

If Fukudome took the Sox offer, can you imagine?

If he made a big splash in Soriano - can you imagine?

Sure - sometimes we let some guys get away....Magglio (who wouldn't let our doctors see medical records) is an example. But what we avoid is so much more significant than what we have ever lost out on...
Yes, we know. You kiss his throne every day. I'm just saying lumping Chris Young in with the others is stupid. He may recover.

I'm not expecting a remotely objective opinion from you on a player KW cut ties with.

jabrch
07-21-2009, 02:32 PM
I don't know, it was pretty much acknowledged that a lot of these teams severely overpaid when these contracts were given out. I don't feel like it's unfair to rip the GM's now because most were ripping them back when the made the deals anyway.


Back in the day, it was common to fellate JP Ricciardi. He was the ultra trendy, GM. He was all of Beane's horsepower with all of Cashman's money. He was to be the next great GM with BJ Ryan, Wells, Rios, Halladay, etc and a system stacked with the best products a computer could pick out.

Now he's DePodesta with a job.

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2009, 02:36 PM
Back in the day, it was common to fellate JP Ricciardi. He was the ultra trendy, GM. He was all of Beane's horsepower with all of Cashman's money. He was to be the next great GM with BJ Ryan, Wells, Rios, Halladay, etc and a system stacked with the best products a computer could pick out.

Now he's DePodesta with a job.
Man...I wonder who stacked the Dodgers system with so much young talent? If only they had ownership as patient with JR who would have waited for things to come together, as they did with KW.

LoveYourSuit
07-21-2009, 02:42 PM
If Williams was responsible for one of these deals, the Anti-Kenny crowd would be all over his ass. If he were paying Chris Young 6mm a year to hit like BA or Wise, can you imagine?

If he were paying Zito to pitch like Richard, can you imagine?

If Fukudome took the Sox offer, can you imagine?

If he made a big splash in Soriano - can you imagine?

Sure - sometimes we let some guys get away....Magglio (who wouldn't let our doctors see medical records) is an example. But what we avoid is so much more significant than what we have ever lost out on...

Well, it's kind of hard to expose yourself to such ****ty deals when you are not willing to spend that kind of money to begin with.

thedudeabides
07-21-2009, 02:47 PM
Oh, I agree. All those deals were **** deals. But it was the going market. It's not line any of those teams were bidding amongst themselves like Texas did with A-rod.

Heck, many people see Paulie's deal as a **** deal too. Now that he is producing all is fine. But last year, forget about it.

Actually, they were. Zito and Soriano were highly sought after, but the Giants and Cubs paid way more than anyone else was going to pay them. Ricciardi was given a bit of a pass on the Wells contract, because it was thought they had to prove they could retain their own players, and it was the only way to keep Wells from free agency. Which, in turn was the same excuse for the Rios and B.J. Ryan contracts. It turns out they were just all bad contracts.

jabrch
07-21-2009, 02:57 PM
Vernon Wells may have a ****ty contract for the Jays, but I wouldn't ever say he sucks. Even this season, he's only playing sub-par according to his career statistics. I wouldn't say he's playing terribly.


Agreed - I was saying they suck relative to their cost.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-21-2009, 05:46 PM
Does Jose Guillen have a membership here?? :tongue:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1336851.html

gobears1987
07-21-2009, 06:02 PM
Sure - sometimes we let some guys get away....Magglio (who wouldn't let our doctors see medical records) is an example. But what we avoid is so much more significant than what we have ever lost out on...I think it's clear that the Tigers regret the deal they gave him still. Maggs has been benched much of this year because he is sucking. He's being paid $15MM to sit on the pine.

gobears1987
07-21-2009, 06:03 PM
Well, it's kind of hard to expose yourself to such ****ty deals when you are not willing to spend that kind of money to begin with.
The Sox have proven they are willing to spend money on a player. It just has to be the right player. Look at Buehrle and PK. No one can accuse them of being cheap in those two contracts. It's also the point of long term deals. The Sox are very reluctant on them and for good reason. The issue about whether or not they would sign Buehrle wasn't money, it was years.

mrfourni
07-21-2009, 06:28 PM
I think it's clear that the Tigers regret the deal they gave him still. Maggs has been benched much of this year because he is sucking. He's being paid $15MM to sit on the pine.

I thought I heard its a little more complicated than just benching him because he sucks. Doesn't he have an option for next year similar to Thome's last year that kicks in based on a certain number of plate appearances?

Foulke You
07-21-2009, 06:42 PM
Besides Zito and Soriano, these contracts come to mind when I think of baseball GM disaster:

Kei Igawa- Five years, $46M ($9.2M per year signed thru 2011) Huge contract given to a non-MLB proven pitcher. Currently not on the big league roster. Yanks can absorb this though.

Dontrelle Willis- Three years, $29M (9.66M per year signed thru 2010) Extension was given despite Dontrelle coming off a down season and never having pitched in the AL.

Carlos Silva- Four years, $48MM($12M per year signed thru 2012) Getting paid like an ace despite never being more than an innings eater #5 type starter. He cashed in on a weak starting pitching market.

Jason Schmidt- Three years, $47MM ($15.6M per year signed through 2009) A constantly injured pitcher got a guaranteed three year deal coming off a year where he was injured.

gobears1987
07-21-2009, 06:44 PM
I thought I heard its a little more complicated than just benching him because he sucks. Doesn't he have an option for next year similar to Thome's last year that kicks in based on a certain number of plate appearances?
He does have such an option, but that wouldn't be a concern if he were producing. He's still too young to be falling apart like he has. I think we know why he has though, STEROIDS. Either way, the Tigers regret that contract right now.