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View Full Version : *Official* 7/19 So much for the Sweep Sox vs. O's postgame thread


spawn
07-19-2009, 05:04 PM
Discuss.

kittle42
07-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Before anyone says anything about "killer instinct," it's stupid.

soxyess
07-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Lets win the series against Tampa. When this team has a chance to sweep against a lesser team they have to put a nail in the coffin.

PatK
07-19-2009, 05:06 PM
You know you're in trouble when it's late in the game and the only runs are Wise and Getz solo shots.

Jose and Poreda just didn't have it. Pena didn't look too good.

As a positive, DJ filled in nicely.

DirtySox
07-19-2009, 05:07 PM
You know you're in trouble when it's late in the game and the only runs are Wise and Getz solo shots.

Jose and Poreda just didn't have it. Pena didn't look too good.

As a positive, DJ filled in nicely.

A stinker all around. It was nice to see DJ bounce back from those gopher ball outings he had previously.

spawn
07-19-2009, 05:08 PM
The Sox win another series, and the Tiggers lose, so we're still 1.5 games out of first.

Bring on the Rays!

voodoochile
07-19-2009, 05:08 PM
You know you're in trouble when it's late in the game and the only runs are Wise and Getz solo shots.

Jose and Poreda just didn't have it. Pena didn't look too good.

As a positive, DJ filled in nicely.

Yeah, not gonna win many games sending 30 men to the plate total. Bad day all around, get 'em tomorrow at least the Kittens lost so the Sox are still only 1.5 back.

kittle42
07-19-2009, 05:08 PM
They couldn't hit, and Contreras, Castro, and Poreda just gave it away.

Tomorrow couldn't come soon enough.

october23sp
07-19-2009, 05:09 PM
Thats crap-tastic.

LoveYourSuit
07-19-2009, 05:10 PM
Positive = DJ Carrasco

SoxFan1979
07-19-2009, 05:12 PM
Tigers lost and we still took the series. Let's kill the Rays at home.

october23sp
07-19-2009, 05:13 PM
Just a loss though, not the end of the world. Castro couldn't block ****, but that's why he's our 2nd catcher.

Dan H
07-19-2009, 05:14 PM
Discuss.

There isn't much to discuss.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-19-2009, 05:19 PM
There isn't much to discuss.

How about, Why did they trade Allen for Pena?

Discuss.

hawkjt
07-19-2009, 05:26 PM
Danks and Jose looked rusty from the layoff out there this weekend.. while Guthrie just looked strong.
Our last few losses have been mainly due to just not throwing strikes. It is like it is infectious and afflicts Danks,Jose,DJ,Poreda,Dotel,ect all at the same time. Frustrating.

Tragg
07-19-2009, 05:27 PM
How about, Why did they trade Allen for Pena?

Discuss.
That's the worst thing about this game otherthan the L...it brought that back into the picture.
With the pros/cons of trading a bunch of prospects for Halladay, why in the world would we waste one on a middle reliever - even if he was good, that's less than fair value.
That it was with a frequent trading partner makes the deal even more smarmy. We owe Arizona nothing - they ripped us of for Aaron Cunningham.l

Chicken Dinner
07-19-2009, 05:28 PM
Poor pitching lost this game.

DirtySox
07-19-2009, 05:29 PM
That's the worst thing about this game otherthan the L...it brought that back into the picture.
With the pros/cons of trading a bunch of prospects for Halladay, why in the world would we waste one on a middle reliever - even if he was good, that's less than fair value.
That it was with a frequent trading partner makes the deal even more smarmy. We owe Arizona nothing - they ripped us of for Aaron Cunningham.l

Agreed. I understand the need for Dotel 2.0 for the future, but it seems we were shortchanged. Especially if he continues to hit like he has since the trade. :(: There better be some Coop magic coming.

MarySwiss
07-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Poor pitching lost this game.

Okay, Chicken; I gave up after seven and went for a swim. Are you telling me I should just skip reading the gamethread? :cool:

jabrch
07-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Just a loss though, not the end of the world. Castro couldn't block ****, but that's why he's our 2nd catcher.

Jose's forkball was for **** today. It was not entirely Castro's fault. In fact, it is mostly Jose's.

Chicken Dinner
07-19-2009, 05:41 PM
Okay, Chicken; I gave up after seven and went for a swim. Are you telling me I should just skip reading the gamethread? :cool:



Yep. Going back in for a dip myself.

WhiteSox1989
07-19-2009, 05:42 PM
Yep. Going back in for a dip myself.
Do you dress up like a chicken at games?

Chicken Dinner
07-19-2009, 05:46 PM
Do you dress up like a chicken at games?

Nope, sorry!

BigP50
07-19-2009, 05:47 PM
I thought the Wise HR was going to really start a rally or something.............wrong, o well

Chicken Dinner
07-19-2009, 05:51 PM
I can't believe that due to the ESPY's that ESPN is starting the Sunday Night Baseball early and gets to black out all of the MLB Extra innings package because of the worthless Braves-Mets game.

voodoochile
07-19-2009, 06:01 PM
How about, Why did they trade Allen for Pena?

Discuss.

Because he's been a proven solid reliever for over 200 appearances in his career with a career WHIP below 1.3 and good stuff. The fact he's had a few bad outings with the Sox doesn't change any of that.

Oh and because Allen didn't really have a future with the club even if he managed to develop into everything he can be. The Sox have plenty of options at 1B for quite a while. Heck, PK will probably sign an extension and finish his career here most of it at 1B. So Allen might be waiting 5 years to get a chance. That's if Flowers doesn't move to 1B full time too.

1989
07-19-2009, 06:23 PM
Because he's been a proven solid reliever for over 200 appearances in his career with a career WHIP below 1.3 and good stuff. The fact he's had a few bad outings with the Sox doesn't change any of that.

Oh and because Allen didn't really have a future with the club even if he managed to develop into everything he can be. The Sox have plenty of options at 1B for quite a while. Heck, PK will probably sign an extension and finish his career here most of it at 1B. So Allen might be waiting 5 years to get a chance. That's if Flowers doesn't move to 1B full time too.

Then who is our future catcher? Phegley?

MarySwiss
07-19-2009, 06:24 PM
I can't believe that due to the ESPY's that ESPN is starting the Sunday Night Baseball early and gets to black out all of the MLB Extra innings package because of the worthless Braves-Mets game.

Well, I can believe it. Doesn't mean I like it though!

voodoochile
07-19-2009, 06:35 PM
Then who is our future catcher? Phegley?

I don't know. I am hoping it is Flowers, but over most of my lifetime, the Sox have had better success with FA catchers anyway.

However, there's also the possibility that long term the Sox might want to move Quentin there to protect his feet and before anyone asks, yes, I think he could handle 1B with some practice.

I'm just pointing out that if PK doesn't sign an extension and stay at 1B (which I think most likely) there are other players who might end up there and while Allen may have been the top 1B prospect in the minors the Sox might well have considered him expendable for a number of reasons.

Edit: Also, trading a AA 1B just isn't that big of a deal for the most part. Why fans are just assuming that Allen Flowers, Danks are all going to follow Beckham to the majors and be starter quality is beyond me. If that were to happen, it would be one of the great minor league classes of all time in Sox history. Odds are that at least two of them are going to be at best marginal or part time players.

october23sp
07-19-2009, 06:36 PM
Jose's forkball was for **** today. It was not entirely Castro's fault. In fact, it is mostly Jose's.

It was on both of them IMO, but he didn't even try to block the ball the proper way a catcher is taught to block.

hi im skot
07-19-2009, 06:49 PM
I expect Getz to get nailed by Kangaroo Court for his brain cramp on the botched double play.

thedudeabides
07-19-2009, 06:59 PM
I can't believe that due to the ESPY's that ESPN is starting the Sunday Night Baseball early and gets to black out all of the MLB Extra innings package because of the worthless Braves-Mets game.

That's brutal. You would have to strap me to a chair Clockwork Orange style to even watch ten minutes on the ESPY's.

I think I've had enough of watching bad baseball for the day after the Sox effort.

WSox597
07-19-2009, 07:00 PM
It was just an ugly game. You'll have that over the season.

I mean, their first six runs scored on two wild pitches and a bunch of walks. Ugly, just ugly.

Go get the Rays, and move on.

DickAllen72
07-19-2009, 07:33 PM
I expect Getz to get nailed by Kangaroo Court for his brain cramp on the botched double play.
That first throwing error on Castro should have been caught or at least knocked down by Getz as well. He's been a pretty weak defensive second baseman. And as you've stated, there was no excuse for that mental error on that botched DP, costing another run.

JB98
07-19-2009, 07:41 PM
Carrasco was the lone positive today. He stopped the madness, ate some innings and saved the bullpen. Today's game reminded me of early May.

The Sox have been outscored 66-29 in the 11 games I've attended this year. It's a wonder I've seen four wins. My pythagorean attendance record is probably 2-9 or 1-10. Just an awful, awful game to be at.

Poreda DOES NOT deserve a chance to start. That point was hammered home today.

Pena was hit extremely hard in the ninth inning. We have a "Big Four" in the bullpen. I don't see Pena making it a "Big Five" anytime soon. Obviously, Cooper has his work cut out for him with that guy.

Chicken Dinner
07-19-2009, 07:45 PM
That's brutal. You would have to strap me to a chair Clockwork Orange style to even watch ten minutes on the ESPY's.

I think I've had enough of watching bad baseball for the day after the Sox effort.

Come on, they can be kind of funny.

thedudeabides
07-19-2009, 07:53 PM
Come on, they can be kind of funny.

I tried once, and it was pretty bad. Just ESPN patting itself on the back, along with celebrating the usual teams and athletes they drool over. But, I have an unusual disdain for that network.

Jurr
07-19-2009, 08:01 PM
It was just an ugly game. You'll have that over the season.

I mean, their first six runs scored on two wild pitches and a bunch of walks. Ugly, just ugly.

Go get the Rays, and move on.

Yup, I'll take 2 of 3 all year long. Keep winning series.

Chicken Dinner
07-19-2009, 08:10 PM
I tried once, and it was pretty bad. Just ESPN patting itself on the back, along with celebrating the usual teams and athletes they drool over. But, I have an unusual disdain for that network.

I'm sure Samuel L. Jackson and Demi Moore will be better than the Braves-Mets game. :D:

And much better than White Sox pitching today!

Frater Perdurabo
07-19-2009, 08:24 PM
Because he's been a proven solid reliever for over 200 appearances in his career with a career WHIP below 1.3 and good stuff. The fact he's had a few bad outings with the Sox doesn't change any of that.

Oh and because Allen didn't really have a future with the club even if he managed to develop into everything he can be. The Sox have plenty of options at 1B for quite a while. Heck, PK will probably sign an extension and finish his career here most of it at 1B. So Allen might be waiting 5 years to get a chance. That's if Flowers doesn't move to 1B full time too.

Hey Voodoo, do you EVER criticize any move KW does (or doesn't) make, or any decisions that Ozzie makes? Or are you just always the resident rose-colored glasses-wearing pollyanna? I guess the upside is that your constant sunshine balances out the cynics and the dark clouds.

:tongue:

I hope you took this in the good-natured ribbing spirit it was intended. Of course, if you are Mr. Sunshine, you always see the good in everything anyway!

:tongue:

Lip Man 1
07-19-2009, 08:42 PM
Reading the post game accounts it seems the fans let the Sox know how they felt today after the effort or lack of one.

Disappointing in that this isn't April, they are running out of games against bad teams and Baltimore is a bad club. You have to win all of those games right not, not most anymore.

Getting beat by a pitcher with a losing record and an ERA over five hurt, but Contreras acting like it was April again hurt more.

There's some pressure on Gavin Floyd tomorrow, Clayton Richard throws Tuesday and the odds aren't in the Sox favor. You don't want even mini-losing streaks right now.

Lip

Tragg
07-19-2009, 08:44 PM
Because he's been a proven solid reliever for over 200 appearances in his career with a career WHIP below 1.3 and good stuff. The fact he's had a few bad outings with the Sox doesn't change any of that.
Linebrink - carer 1.26
Dotel - career1.25
Thornton 1.22 with the Sox
All 3 of these guys are very good pitchers; none are closers though. A 1.29 WHIP in a pitchers park against the NL is okay but nothing more. It's middle reliever quality.


Oh and because Allen didn't really have a future with the club even if he managed to develop into everything he can be.
If we have some depth, that would make him a good person to deal in a trade; but you should still get full value for him.
I just question whether we thoroughly scouted MLB for the best player he could find for Allen; his stats, his performance and the fact that the deal was with Az make me wonder.

Anyway, the good news is we dealt from strength.

Brian26
07-19-2009, 09:39 PM
That's the worst thing about this game otherthan the L...it brought that back into the picture.

I thought the worse thing about the game was the apparent regression of Jose Contreras. He was 3-0 or 3-1, seemingly, on every batter that came up. He was around 70 pitches through the first three innings. Contreras is only effective when he has good control. The walks, wild pitches and going-deep-in-the-count on every batter have to stop. Hopefully he can get back on track later this week.

EuroSox35
07-19-2009, 09:43 PM
The team just had 4 days off, there's really no excuse for taking one easy in a matchup where they should've been the team causing the blowout. Especially when the schedule from hell is coming up...

It's not just a positive that they won the series, when it's these games you give up against bad teams and bad pitchers (just like the Indians game at home before the Min) will come back to bite the Sox

Noneck
07-19-2009, 09:53 PM
Yup, I'll take 2 of 3 all year long. Keep winning series.

You think the twins will skipping and singing if they take 2 of 3 in Texas? I don't.

TDog
07-19-2009, 10:14 PM
That's brutal. You would have to strap me to a chair Clockwork Orange style to even watch ten minutes on the ESPY's.

I think I've had enough of watching bad baseball for the day after the Sox effort.

I have no idea what the ESPYs are, and it sounds as though my life is better for it.

I like the Clockwork Orange reference. I've actually used that myself.

kitekrazy
07-19-2009, 10:17 PM
That's brutal. You would have to strap me to a chair Clockwork Orange style to even watch ten minutes on the ESPY's.


LOL. POTW. That's what it would take for me to watch ESPN.

voodoochile
07-19-2009, 10:34 PM
Hey Voodoo, do you EVER criticize any move KW does (or doesn't) make, or any decisions that Ozzie makes? Or are you just always the resident rose-colored glasses-wearing pollyanna? I guess the upside is that your constant sunshine balances out the cynics and the dark clouds.

:tongue:

I hope you took this in the good-natured ribbing spirit it was intended. Of course, if you are Mr. Sunshine, you always see the good in everything anyway!

:tongue:

I do tend to look at the world and the teams I root for in the best possible light. I always have. I don't think that makes me a Pollyanna. I just hang on to hope longer than most. you won't see me blowing much sunshine the second half of the 2007 season and as recently as mid-June I was having doubts about this year's team.

I do think KW deserves the benefit of the doubt, but I tend to look at the end results and for the most part KW and OG have done a lot better than GM/Manager combos from previous Sox teams.

When it comes to trading a AA player with a questionable future with the team for a proven veteran reliever, I almost never have a problem with it. I'm certainly not going to condemn it after 4 appearances by that reliever when there's a long history of success prior to those 4 appearances.

I'm not upset with your comments at all. I do think that people who are CONSTANTLY ripping on KW or making snap judgments based on a week or even a month's worth of games for the team or a given player are simply silly. I don't think any person on these forums knows half as much as they think they do and none of them know half as much as KW and OG do that's for damned sure. Maybe Lip, he's got some decent connections. The rest of these GM wannabes/sad sack dark clouds/reactionary whiners are getting half assed info based on stats and columns they read on the Internet or see on their nightly news or even watching their White Sox Weekly show. They think it makes them fully informed and able to make accurate assessments of a player's performance and even qualifies them to make out lineups and decide who should be playing. I think they're nuts.

It's like in poker. I may not have the strongest hand, but I'll bet anyway if I think the other guy doesn't have much either. I'll bet my KW OG face cards everyday and twice on Sunday against the 7-2 OS most of the other players at this particular table are repping as "the nuts".

voodoochile
07-19-2009, 10:38 PM
Linebrink - carer 1.26
Dotel - career1.25
Thornton 1.22 with the Sox
All 3 of these guys are very good pitchers; none are closers though. A 1.29 WHIP in a pitchers park against the NL is okay but nothing more. It's middle reliever quality.


If we have some depth, that would make him a good person to deal in a trade; but you should still get full value for him.
I just question whether we thoroughly scouted MLB for the best player he could find for Allen; his stats, his performance and the fact that the deal was with Az make me wonder.

Anyway, the good news is we dealt from strength.

Indeed, the loss of Allen probably won't mean much long term - that's my point. Also, you are ignoring cost factors. Pena won't make nearly as much as Dotel will next season but should be able to take over his position quite effectively. It isn't just a decent middle reliever, it's a decent inexpensive middle reliever who the Sox control for the next 2-3 years.

That's why I actually kind of like the trade because while Allen would be sitting in the minors hoping for a crack, Pena will be on the big league team helping them win.

SoxFan1979
07-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Twinks lost too. :smile: Ian's 2 run shot in the 13th takes it.

whitesoxfan
07-20-2009, 01:30 AM
Well that sucked. Sig updated.

Best seats I've had in a while, though. 20 rows behind the first base dugout was pretty solid. And I did get my Beckham jersey shirt at Grandstand so the day wasn't a total loss.

Foulke You
07-20-2009, 11:51 AM
I thought the worse thing about the game was the apparent regression of Jose Contreras. He was 3-0 or 3-1, seemingly, on every batter that came up. He was around 70 pitches through the first three innings. Contreras is only effective when he has good control. The walks, wild pitches and going-deep-in-the-count on every batter have to stop. Hopefully he can get back on track later this week.
Yeah, Jose was pretty bad yesterday. He had no command of his slider and it seemed like he threw maybe 2 regular fastballs the entire game. This was also the first game where he didn't have his spot on control with the fork and split. I'm hoping it was just the long layoff and he was just rusty. Jose hadn't pitched in quite some time.

Foulke You
07-20-2009, 11:53 AM
That first throwing error on Castro should have been caught or at least knocked down by Getz as well. He's been a pretty weak defensive second baseman. And as you've stated, there was no excuse for that mental error on that botched DP, costing another run.
I like Chris Getz, I really do but if I'm filling out that lineup card every day, Jayson Nix is my starting 2B and Getz is my backup. I think Nix can give you similar offensive numbers (perhaps with a bit more power) and he is easily the best defensive infielder we have on this team. For a team that struggles so much on defense, it would make sense to shore it up wherever you can. Just my .02.

DickAllen72
07-20-2009, 12:05 PM
I like Chris Getz, I really do but if I'm filling out that lineup card every day, Jayson Nix is my starting 2B and Getz is my backup. I think Nix can give you similar offensive numbers (perhaps with a bit more power) and he is easily the best defensive infielder we have on this team. For a team that struggles so much on defense, it would make sense to shore it up wherever you can. Just my .02.
That's exactly how I feel as well.

voodoochile
07-20-2009, 12:12 PM
Don't get the Nix love. Yeah, he's had some nice timely hits this year, but that's because he's been facing mostly LHP which he's posted a .880 OPS against.

His splits against RHP are really bad - really really bad with a strikeout every 3AB, little power and few walks. Yeah, it's a small sample size, but he did the same thing in his last call up too.

With 80% of the pitchers the Sox face being right handed, this seems like a bad idea, but maybe I'm missing something.

DickAllen72
07-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Don't get the Nix love. Yeah, he's had some nice timely hits this year, but that's because he's been facing mostly LHP which he's posted a .880 OPS against.

His splits against RHP are really bad - really really bad with a strikeout every 3AB, little power and few walks. Yeah, it's a small sample size, but he did the same thing in his last call up too.

With 80% of the pitchers the Sox face being right handed, this seems like a bad idea, but maybe I'm missing something.
Nix can field his position extremely well. Getz is mediocre at best defensively. Until the Sox get a better option at 2B, Nix should get a lot more starts at 2B.

Personally, I'd like to see the Sox get a quality third-baseman and move Beckham to 2B where he belongs.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2009, 12:53 PM
With 80% of the pitchers the Sox face being right handed, this seems like a bad idea, but maybe I'm missing something.

Actually, the Sox have played 29% of their games (27 games, 17-10 record) against LHP starters. I guess it's good that only 71% of their games have been against RHP starters, since they are 30-34 v. RHP.

Interestingly, the stats show that lefties Getz and Wise have hit LHP better than RHP (Getz's L/R split differential is not massive, but it is noticeable). Meanwhile, BA has hit RHP better than LHP. Maybe by-the-book lineup decisions don't always work.
:scratch:

In addition, perhaps KW should look at acquiring a decent, versatile lefty bat off the bench. What's Rob Mackowiak doing? Maybe the Orioles would trade Aubrey Huff?

LoveYourSuit
07-20-2009, 01:06 PM
Nix can field his position extremely well. Getz is mediocre at best defensively. Until the Sox get a better option at 2B, Nix should get a lot more starts at 2B.

Personally, I'd like to see the Sox get a quality third-baseman and move Beckham to 2B where he belongs.


Sox blew it big time by not giving Orlando Hudson a try.

But that's old news.

Nix IMO would be a better way to go for 2B the rest of the way. I love his glove.

voodoochile
07-20-2009, 01:12 PM
Actually, the Sox have played 29% of their games (27 games, 17-10 record) against LHP starters. I guess it's good that only 71% of their games have been against RHP starters, since they are 30-34 v. RHP.

Interestingly, the stats show that lefties Getz and Wise have hit LHP better than RHP (Getz's L/R split differential is not massive, but it is noticeable). Meanwhile, BA has hit RHP better than LHP. Maybe by-the-book lineup decisions don't always work.
:scratch:

In addition, perhaps KW should look at acquiring a decent, versatile lefty bat off the bench. What's Rob Mackowiak doing? Maybe the Orioles would trade Aubrey Huff?

Wise sample size for LHP is tiny. He's had 8 AB this year against LHP. That's not even CLOSE to being a relevant sample. Career wise it's an extreme opposite case. His LHP splits over his career are horrible. I have no desire to get back into a discussion about Wise, just thought I'd point that out because I really can't stand when people abuse stats by ignoring sample size.

The 80% was a guess. Maybe Nix should see more PT against LHP because he has the potential to massively outproduce Getz in that situation, but Getz hasn't been horrid against LHP either as you pointed out.

jabrch
07-20-2009, 01:18 PM
You have to win all of those games right not, not most anymore.

Want to...not have to. Big difference. You won't win every game you play against a bad team. No team will. Keep winning serieses, and we will be just fine.

JC456
07-20-2009, 01:36 PM
Nix can field his position extremely well. Getz is mediocre at best defensively. Until the Sox get a better option at 2B, Nix should get a lot more starts at 2B.

Personally, I'd like to see the Sox get a quality third-baseman and move Beckham to 2B where he belongs.

I would have rather seen them start playing Nix at third prior to bringing up Beckham. Fields was a a total bust!

You either have it or you don't, and Fields don't have it at third.

Nix seems to have good reactions to grounders and can pick'em.

Beckham is totally lost down the line. I'd like to see them move him toward the line one step to see if he then might get to the grounder to his right.

Another thing, why was he playing ten feet behind the bag when Brian Roberts was batting?