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View Full Version : Can Mark Buehrle Win 20 games, Ever?


PhillipsBubba
07-19-2009, 11:54 AM
MB is a wonderful pitcher and we are lucky to have him.

Will he ever break the 20 win mark (came close with 19 in 2002)?

Is he the type of pitcher that can achieve that milestone? When his control in pinpoint, he can't be touched. It must be difficult for a pitcher of his style to maintain that control throughout the season.

Just wondering what others might think:scratch:

TornLabrum
07-19-2009, 12:03 PM
MB is a wonderful pitcher and we are lucky to have him.

Will he ever break the 20 win mark (came close with 19 in 2002)?

Is he the type of pitcher that can achieve that milestone? When his control in pinpoint, he can't be touched. It must be difficult for a pitcher of his style to maintain that control throughout the season.

Just wondering what others might think:scratch:

With a five-man rotation it's damned difficult for any pitcher to win 20 games. That being said, it is possible for Buehrle to win 20 games.

MISoxfan
07-19-2009, 12:11 PM
I would think his ability to pitch deeply into a lot of games gives him a good chance to win 20. I also think he could do it this year.

Domeshot17
07-19-2009, 01:13 PM
I do not think so, but I have always had a different view on Buehrle. His problem is, he is a control and movement pitcher, not a "stuff" pitcher. When a Stuff Pitcher does not have his control, he can still fight through 6 innings or 4 run ball. When Buehrle is not locating, he gives up bigger numbers. I am not saying he can't grit out a 7 ip 5 ER win, but its less likely then it is with a pitching with dominant stuff.

soxfanreggie
07-19-2009, 01:28 PM
I think he can do it, but he needs run support from his teammates. Looking at MB in 2007 and 2008, he was 10-9 with a 3.63 ERA in 30 starts ('07) and 15-12 with a 3.79 ERA in 34 starts. He just did not get offensive support from his teammates as say Jon Garland did in 2006 when he was 18-7 with a 4.51 ERA. MB was giving up about 0.7 to 0.9 less runs a game and just couldn't get the sticks behind him. He also needs the bullpen to stay strong behind him. If he leaves with a 4-2 lead after 7 innings, you would hope he'd notch one in the win column.

LITTLE NELL
07-19-2009, 01:32 PM
If he can win 19 as he did in 02, he sure as heck can win 20.

thedudeabides
07-19-2009, 01:34 PM
I do not think so, but I have always had a different view on Buehrle. His problem is, he is a control and movement pitcher, not a "stuff" pitcher. When a Stuff Pitcher does not have his control, he can still fight through 6 innings or 4 run ball. When Buehrle is not locating, he gives up bigger numbers. I am not saying he can't grit out a 7 ip 5 ER win, but its less likely then it is with a pitching with dominant stuff.

I kind of feel just the opposite. He guts out innings and wins with the best of them. The "stuff" pitchers usually have much higher pitch counts when they are off their games. They are usually racking up more strikeouts and walks, while working deeper in counts.

Winning 20 really does take a good bit of luck and run support.

oeo
07-19-2009, 02:09 PM
I do not think so, but I have always had a different view on Buehrle. His problem is, he is a control and movement pitcher, not a "stuff" pitcher. When a Stuff Pitcher does not have his control, he can still fight through 6 innings or 4 run ball. When Buehrle is not locating, he gives up bigger numbers. I am not saying he can't grit out a 7 ip 5 ER win, but its less likely then it is with a pitching with dominant stuff.

Stuff has very little to do with it. If it did, we would see more than the one or two there are across baseball every year. Wins are so incredibly overrated for a pitcher. Teams win games, not pitchers.

Besides, Buehrle consistently grinds out games when he doesn't have it. Last Sunday does not happen often.

Eddo144
07-19-2009, 02:34 PM
This is really hard to predict, since wins are so dependent on how the rest of the team plays on a given day. In the last two division-winning years, the Sox' best starter did not lead the team in wins (2005: Buehrle was their best starter (though it was close), but Garland led in wins; 2008: Danks was easily their best starter, but Floyd led in wins).

A. Cavatica
07-19-2009, 03:55 PM
If Brad Radke could win 20, Mark can win 20.

mzh
07-19-2009, 05:47 PM
Mike Mussina pitched 17 seasons without a 20 win season until last year, so I think MB has plenty of time left.

Dub25
07-19-2009, 06:34 PM
MB is a wonderful pitcher and we are lucky to have him.

Will he ever break the 20 win mark (came close with 19 in 2002)?

Is he the type of pitcher that can achieve that milestone? When his control in pinpoint, he can't be touched. It must be difficult for a pitcher of his style to maintain that control throughout the season.

Just wondering what others might think:scratch:

Yes, he can, but like winning 90+ games to reach the playoffs, sometimes you need a little luck.

kitekrazy
07-19-2009, 09:25 PM
Besides, Buehrle consistently grinds out games when he doesn't have it. Last Sunday does not happen often.

There was one game (2005?) where he got hammered early and the Sox offense won the game and he got the win. I think it was a nationally televised game.

Tragg
07-19-2009, 09:42 PM
There was one game (2005?) where he got hammered early and the Sox offense won the game and he got the win. I think it was a nationally televised game.

I remember a Sunday night game in the Twinkiedome like that. MB gave up 6 or 7 runs in the first inning, he pitched 5 or 6 innings, and we came back to win.
The one I remember was in 2006.

sox1970
07-19-2009, 09:56 PM
Unless he goes back to starting 35-36 games, no. It would take him having a season where the bullpen never blows his games and he gets enough run support. And it doesn't matter who you are...if you only start 32 or 33 games, 20 is tough to get to.

JB98
07-19-2009, 10:00 PM
I would think his ability to pitch deeply into a lot of games gives him a good chance to win 20. I also think he could do it this year.

He's probably got 14 starts left this year. He needs 10 more wins to reach 20.

More than likely, he finishes with 16-17 wins this year.

gobears1987
07-19-2009, 10:25 PM
I remember a Sunday night game in the Twinkiedome like that. MB gave up 6 or 7 runs in the first inning, he pitched 5 or 6 innings, and we came back to win.
The one I remember was in 2006.
Yep it was on Mother's Day that year and was the first year they used the pink bats.

waldo_the_wolf
07-20-2009, 03:36 AM
Yep it was on Mother's Day that year and was the first year they used the pink bats.

I remember that game also. They said it was the first time since 1900 (I think, I may be wrong) that a pitcher had allowed seven runs in the first inning and got a win.

waldo_the_wolf
07-20-2009, 03:38 AM
And to answer the title question, absolutely he can. I don't think any of us here thought there was a chance on God's green earth that Buehrle could throw a no-hitter, but he did that.

MISoxfan
07-20-2009, 09:39 AM
He's probably got 14 starts left this year. He needs 10 more wins to reach 20.

More than likely, he finishes with 16-17 wins this year.

I agree it isn't likely. I'm not sure how the rotation projects towards the end of the season, but I think if he's sitting at 19 he could find himself with another start like Loaiza in 2003. This would also depend on the playoff picture, of course.

ewokpelts
07-20-2009, 10:16 AM
not with this offense and bullpen....

Railsplitter
07-20-2009, 10:58 AM
With a five-man rotation it's damned difficult for any pitcher to win 20 games. That being said, it is possible for Buehrle to win 20 games.
There's the rub; 5 man rotation = 32 starts.

You could go every five DAYS as opposed to every five games and get in a extra start or two.

infohawk
07-20-2009, 11:53 AM
Imagine a thread prior to 2007 that asked, "Can Mark Buehrle ever throw a no-hitter."

I don't discount anything with that guy!

gobears1987
07-20-2009, 11:56 AM
Imagine a thread prior to 2007 that asked, "Can Mark Buehrle ever throw a no-hitter."

I don't discount anything with that guy!
I'm pretty certain we had that thread in 2004 after the game when Buehrle faced the minimum in Cleveland. He had a perfect in the 7th, but he gave up 2 singles in the late innings. Each was erased by a double play.

jabrch
07-20-2009, 12:30 PM
not with this offense and bullpen....


Without TCQ, this offense averaged 5.9 RPG. Replace Wise/BA with TCQ, let's say we score 6 RPG. Why is this offense not good enough?

As far as Bullpens go, how many teams do you think have Pens that are CLEARLY better than this?

Jenks
Dotel
Carasco
Thornton
Linebrink
Pena
Poreda

Not a ton, but this pen is not so bad that it would be the cause of Mark not winning 20 either.

To win 20 games, you have to have an amazing season. With an ERA of 3.50+ he isn't likely to do it. That has little to do with the pen or the offense. I'd actually point to the DEFENSE before the O or the Pen.

gobears1987
07-20-2009, 01:43 PM
Buehrle has been pretty unlucky this year. I've been to 5 of his starts this year and 3 of them were no decisions, 2 of which should've been wins for Buehrle. The first was opening day, but I guess his pitch count got a little too high despite the fact he was doing well overall. The other he should've won was the Sunday game against Pittsburgh. Buehrle left with a lead only for Dotel to give back one run via the longball. That would've been fine, but then Bobby had one of his few blown saves. Just bad luck on Mark's part. The other no decision I saw was the Milwaukee game. Hey Buehrle homered, which was amazing, but he just kept giving up the lead runs. so that was a deserved no decision. The Sox won the game so I was still happy.

soxinem1
07-21-2009, 10:27 AM
If he doesn't it will not be a huge tragedy. Despite all the wins, Greg Maddux only won 20 a couple times.

With pitchers rarely getting over 33-34 starts a season these days, it is tough, especially in such a specialized game with major relief roles now starting in the sixth inning, no decisions are all the more likely.

But he may just have that one season eventually where he gets consistent run support, defense, and avoids that annual 5-6 start stretch when he cannot give up less than five runs.

If he does, great! He does deserve the privilege of being a 20 game winner.+