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Bob G
07-15-2009, 11:43 AM
We're really going to need to step it up in the 2nd half to win this division. The schedule is very tough compared to the Twins and Tigers.

Here's the number of games left to play against AL East and West teams with winning records:

Sox: 31 (15 games vs NY and Bos)
Tigers: 26 (7 games vs NY and Bos)
Twins: 13 (0 games vs NY and Bos)

Demps2
07-15-2009, 11:44 AM
plus we have 6 vs LAA, and two more west-coast road trips.

beasly213
07-15-2009, 12:02 PM
Whatever, we have to beat those teams anyway if we want to win a championship. Might as well go out and get um right away!

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 12:32 PM
This is why ****ty losses to crappy teams get many here including me bent out ot shape. The last loss to the Indians at home was god awful.

No, "the sky is not falling."


But mis-opportunities can pretty much put you behind the 8-ball, especially with this upcoming schedule.

We are going to have to earn it in order to get in.

veeter
07-15-2009, 12:37 PM
Everyone has to play those teams. Just keep winning series and, for sure, defend our home turf better, and the Sox should be o.k. The funny part is, the Sox play much better, tighter ball on the road. I still like our chances.

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 12:42 PM
I think the schedule is further proof Kenny needs to go out an find another arm. You can't afford to automatically pencil in a loss a every 5 days with that schedule.

It's going to take 5 good starters to get it done IMO.

spawn
07-15-2009, 12:49 PM
I think the schedule is further proof Kenny needs to go out an find another arm. You can't afford to automatically pencil in a loss a every 5 days with that schedule.

It's going to take 5 good starters to get it done IMO.
This coming from the same person that wanted to trade Contreras after he was named Player of the Week.

Bob G
07-15-2009, 01:05 PM
Everyone has to play those teams. Just keep winning series and, for sure, defend our home turf better, and the Sox should be o.k. The funny part is, the Sox play much better, tighter ball on the road. I still like our chances.

That's the point - everyone has to play those teams and the Twins pretty much already have and we haven't. Despite the favorable first half schedule we had over the Tigers and Twins we didn't really take advantage.

Like I said we will need to play solid, consistent ball (our defense MUST get better) the rest of the way or we're looking at a third place finish.

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 01:25 PM
This coming from the same person that wanted to trade Contreras after he was named Player of the Week.

I'm glad you keep tabs on me like the CIA.

Yes, when Contreras started throwing the ball good, this team was still playing like **** and about 5-6 games under .500. I and many thought they were going no where this year. So why not sell high on Contreras during that time.

Things have changed big time since, and a run can be made here to win this.

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 01:29 PM
That's the point - everyone has to play those teams and the Twins pretty much already have and we haven't. Despite the favorable first half schedule we had over the Tigers and Twins we didn't really take advantage.

Like I said we will need to play solid, consistent ball (our defense MUST get better) the rest of the way or we're looking at a third place finish.

Hit the nail on the head right there.

Other than inter-league play, everyone plays the same schedule.

Tigers and Twins did their job by hanging around and over .500 during their rough matchups. We still have not played that rough stretch and just played about .500 versus the weak part of our schedule.

We have our work cut out. But adding Quentin and hopefully another starter might make us more than a mediocre team and elevate us to a good team this second half.

spawn
07-15-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm glad you keep tabs on me like the CIA.
No...I just have a good memory of "Dark Cloud" posts and the people that make them.

Yes, when Contreras started throwing the ball good, this team was still playing like **** and about 5-6 games under .500. I and many thought they were going no where this year. So why not sell high on Contreras during that time.

Things have changed big time since, and a run can be made here to win this.
No, as always, you panicked. You have a habit of sticking the fork in, and then backtracking. This is just another example. Hell, you even went so far as to say the Sox could compete in this division even if they unloaded some of the players you listed (Contreras, Dye, AJ, Linebrink, Jenks, Dotel, and Carrasco). I'd bet my paycheck the next time the Sox go on a losing streak, you'll want to back up the truck again.

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 01:41 PM
No...I just have a good memory of "Dark Cloud" posts and the people that make them.

No, as always, you panicked. You have a habit of sticking the fork in, and then backtracking. This is just another example. Hell, you even went so far as to say the Sox could compete in this division even if they unloaded some of the players you listed (Contreras, Dye, AJ, Linebrink, Jenks, Dotel, and Carrasco). I'd bet my paycheck the next time the Sox go on a losing streak, you'll want to back up the truck again.


I don't see where trading Contreras for future assets is being a "Dark Cloud" post.

Besides, I think you worry way too much on who's a dark cloud and who's a cheerleader.

I have said it a thousand times, we are all fans regardless and we want to see this team win and be good for a long time. Doesn't matter if you are dark cloud or a cheerleader.

beasly213
07-15-2009, 01:43 PM
No...I just have a good memory of "Dark Cloud" posts and the people that make them.

No, as always, you panicked. You have a habit of sticking the fork in, and then backtracking. This is just another example. Hell, you even went so far as to say the Sox could compete in this division even if they unloaded some of the players you listed (Contreras, Dye, AJ, Linebrink, Jenks, Dotel, and Carrasco). I'd bet my paycheck the next time the Sox go on a losing streak, you'll want to back up the truck again.

In Loveyoursuites defense, there are a ton of people on WSI that want to back up the truck after a couple losses in a row. Hell some want to do it after one loss! Baseball is a long season and I don't know how people can actually enjoy watching games when they live and die with every single game... :scratch:

voodoochile
07-15-2009, 01:47 PM
That's the point - everyone has to play those teams and the Twins pretty much already have and we haven't. Despite the favorable first half schedule we had over the Tigers and Twins we didn't really take advantage.

Like I said we will need to play solid, consistent ball (our defense MUST get better) the rest of the way or we're looking at a third place finish.

Yeah, the schedule is tougher the second half, but the Sox also are finally getting healthy (assuming TCQ can return) and have done a good job of filling two holes in the lineup with Beckham and Pods.

With TCQ replacing BA/Wise and with Contreras having found a groove again, the Sox have the most talent in the division by a fair amount, IMO and enough to compete with Boston and NY. If they can get a solid second half from Colon in the 5 slot or if KW makes a trade for a pitcher, the Sox should be able to make a second half run. There are obviously no guarantees, but this team should be giving people hope that a pennant race/chase is in the works. This isn't the same team from late April and May and there's even still time to get stronger, but I won't be shocked if KW says **** it and goes to war with what he has

SCCWS
07-15-2009, 02:02 PM
We're really going to need to step it up in the 2nd half to win this division. The schedule is very tough compared to the Twins and Tigers.

Here's the number of games left to play against AL East and West teams with winning records:

Sox: 31 (15 games vs NY and Bos)
Tigers: 26 (7 games vs NY and Bos)
Twins: 13 (0 games vs NY and Bos)


Excellent point. I would add 1 caveat to that thinking..... Roy Halladay. I assume he will be traded. Unfortunately the WS are done w Toronto but Tigers and Twins each have 4 games left in Sept w them. That makes those series a little easier for our opponents if Halladay is gone. Worse for WS are the rumors that Boston or New York are possible destinations for him in that the teams we play may get stronger if he goes there. Even if Halladay doesn't go to Boston or NY, both those teams will be buyers this year and ultimately may be tougher opponents when we play them.

Red Barchetta
07-15-2009, 02:21 PM
Hit the nail on the head right there.

Other than inter-league play, everyone plays the same schedule.

Tigers and Twins did their job by hanging around and over .500 during their rough matchups. We still have not played that rough stretch and just played about .500 versus the weak part of our schedule.

We have our work cut out. But adding Quentin and hopefully another starter might make us more than a mediocre team and elevate us to a good team this second half.

I agree. The Twins however are not a good road team based on their first half 17-24 record. Out of their remaining schedule of 73 games, 40 are on the road so unless they find some miracle pill that helps them win outside of their dome, I don't see them moving up the standings.

The same for the Tigers who also had a poor 1st half road record of 21-26. However, unlike the Twins, the Tigers are home for 40 of their remaning 74 games. They were excellent at home the first half of the season with a record of 27-13 so they are my biggest concern for the SOX.

The SOX have the most even schedule with 38 home games and 35 road games the second half. I think we have the best team if Q comes back healthy, it's just a matter of beating the Tigers at their home park (6 of the last 9 against the Tigers are in Detroit) and hoping the Tigers lose some of their home field advantage.

Tragg
07-15-2009, 02:55 PM
. The last loss to the Indians at home was god awful.

Yes it was and it was unnecessary.
That said, the Tigers and Twins have more games against Texas. Of course we have to go to SEattle twice, which is never friendly to the Sox.

Bob G
07-15-2009, 03:46 PM
I agree. The Twins however are not a good road team based on their first half 17-24 record. Out of their remaining schedule of 73 games, 40 are on the road so unless they find some miracle pill that helps them win outside of their dome, I don't see them moving up the standings.

The same for the Tigers who also had a poor 1st half road record of 21-26. However, unlike the Twins, the Tigers are home for 40 of their remaning 74 games. They were excellent at home the first half of the season with a record of 27-13 so they are my biggest concern for the SOX.

The SOX have the most even schedule with 38 home games and 35 road games the second half. I think we have the best team if Q comes back healthy, it's just a matter of beating the Tigers at their home park (6 of the last 9 against the Tigers are in Detroit) and hoping the Tigers lose some of their home field advantage.

True - however 10 of the 24 Twin road losses were against good teams like NY, Boston, Tampa Bay, Seattle - the same teams we still have a lot of games with.

I wouldn't put too much hope on TCQ - even if he's healthy we don't know if he'll be as effective as he was last year.

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 04:19 PM
True - however 10 of the 24 Twin road losses were against good teams like NY, Boston, Tampa Bay, Seattle - the same teams we still have a lot of games with.

I wouldn't put too much hope on TCQ - even if he's healthy we don't know if he'll be as effective as he was last year.


I think Quentin at 80% is better than the combo of Wise/Anderson.

Problem is, can he stay on the field the rest of the way.

veeter
07-15-2009, 04:45 PM
True - however 10 of the 24 Twin road losses were against good teams like NY, Boston, Tampa Bay, Seattle - the same teams we still have a lot of games with.

I wouldn't put too much hope on TCQ - even if he's healthy we don't know if he'll be as effective as he was last year.I just think the Sox will do a better job against those teams than the Twins/ Detroit did.

Demps2
07-15-2009, 04:49 PM
True - however 10 of the 24 Twin road losses were against good teams like NY, Boston, Tampa Bay, Seattle - the same teams we still have a lot of games with.

I wouldn't put too much hope on TCQ - even if he's healthy we don't know if he'll be as effective as he was last year.

You have to hope he'll be more effective that he's been THIS year. He's only batting .229. And we have no idea how much pain he'll be playing in.

LoveYourSuit
07-15-2009, 04:52 PM
I just think the Sox will do a better job against those teams than the Twins/ Detroit did.

I hope that's the case of us playing "up" to the competition as opposed to some huge letdowns to the weaker teams.

Bottom line, we also need to take care of our home turf. .500 is not going to cut it.

Foulke You
07-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Bottom line, we also need to take care of our home turf. .500 is not going to cut it.
Agreed. We were 54W-28L at The Cell last year which was the main reason we won the division. If you look at the past few years, our home record has always been really good except for 2007:

2008- 54W-28L
2007- 38W-43L
2006- 49W-32L
2005- 47W-34L
2004- 46W-35L
2003- 51W-30L

We have been playing better ball at home lately (6W-3L in our last 9 home games) and I'm hoping the warmer weather plus the addition of Carlos Quentin to the lineup keeps this home cookin' trend going.

twinsuck
07-15-2009, 06:56 PM
They can do it!! And if they can't, they don't deserve to be in the playoffs, it's as simple as that. :smile:

tsoxman
07-15-2009, 07:20 PM
This is why ****ty losses to crappy teams get many here including me bent out ot shape. The last loss to the Indians at home was god awful.

No, "the sky is not falling."


But mis-opportunities can pretty much put you behind the 8-ball, especially with this upcoming schedule.

We are going to have to earn it in order to get in.

Agreed...If I hear another one of those "If I had told you......." reasonings again, I will barf.

EDIT- That 4-8 Homestand (losing to the A's Indians and culminating in a tough loss to the Tigers) may haunt us later.

Demps2
07-15-2009, 08:57 PM
Agreed...If I hear another one of those "If I had told you......." reasonings again, I will barf.

EDIT- That 4-8 Homestand (losing to the A's Indians and culminating in a tough loss to the Tigers) may haunt us later.

don't forget when we dropped something like 12 of 15 in May. that is not good when you are trying to win a division.

voodoochile
07-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Yeah and remember that time they totally sucked at home for the first few weeks of June. Man those were the days. Dark cloud heaven. You could bitch and bitch and bitch and no on dared to challenge you. It was a dream come true...

:rolleyes:

:tongue:

Dan H
07-15-2009, 10:06 PM
They can do it!! And if they can't, they don't deserve to be in the playoffs, it's as simple as that. :smile:

I agree totally. The Sox almost blew it last year when they tanked it against the AL East in September. They lost every series against the East that month and only the Twins blowing it against Kansas City saved them. Boston and New York are far from invincible. It's up to the Sox to prove it and prove they really belong in the playoffs. Two games over .500 in the first half didn't prove anything.

Zakath
07-15-2009, 10:15 PM
The full breakdown:
Sox - 6 vs. Bal (6 H), 8 vs. Bos (4 R, 4 H), 6 vs. Cle (3 H, 3 R), 10 vs. Det (7 R, 3 H), 6 vs. KC (6 H), 6 vs. LAA (3 R, 3 H), 9 vs. Min (6 R, 3 H), 7 vs. NYY (3 R, 4 H), 5 vs. Oak (3 R, 2 H), 6 vs. Sea (6 R), 4 vs. TB (4 H). 1 vs. Cubs (1 R). Do not play Texas or Toronto.

Det- 4 vs. Bal (4 H), 4 vs. Bos (4 R), 10 vs. Sox (3 R, 7 H), 9 vs. Cle (6 R, 3 H), 9 vs. KC (3 R, 6 H), 3 vs. LAA (3 R), 10 vs. Min (3 R, 7 H), 3 vs. NYY (3 R), 3 vs. Oak (3 R), 6 vs. Sea (6 H), 7 vs. TB (3 R, 4 H), 3 vs. Tex (3 R), 4 vs. Tor (4 H).

Min - 3 vs. Bal (3 H), 9 vs. Sox (3 R, 6 H), 12 vs. Cle (6 R, 6 H), 10 vs. Det (7 R, 3 H), 12 vs. KC (6 R, 6 H), 7 vs. LAA (4 R, 3 H), 6 vs. Oak (3 R, 3 H), 10 vs. Tex (7 R, 3 H), 4 vs. Tor (4 R). Do not play Boston, New York, Seattle, or Tampa Bay.

Schedule definitely favors the Twins, except that they only have 33 home games left (40 road). Detroit has 41 home, 34 road; Sox have 38 home, 36 road.

dakotasox
07-15-2009, 10:44 PM
Schedule definitely favors the Twins, except that they only have 33 home games left (40 road). Detroit has 41 home, 34 road; Sox have 38 home, 36 road.

Which is exactly why it doesn't favor the Twins, they are horrid away from home. I still think they take the division though.

Thatguyoverthere
07-16-2009, 12:19 AM
The Sox always play the Yankees tough, so I actually feel pretty good about our games with them. And **** the Red Sox. They may have the best record, but they look far from unbeatable. I would love nothing more than to beat those assbags. I was afraid of Manny and the old Ortiz, but these new guys along with washed-up Ortiz don't intimidate me nearly as much - as solid as they may be. Bring 'em on, I won't be content "just going .500" against these teams. I want to ****ing win. I just hope the Sox players have the same attitude I do.

Zakath
07-16-2009, 07:48 AM
Which is exactly why it doesn't favor the Twins, they are horrid away from home. I still think they take the division though.

17-24 isn't totally horrid (totally horrid would be the Orioles at 14-27, or the Nationals at 10-35, but they're horrid everywhere). Getting to avoid 4 of the 8 teams in the AL (outside of themselves) who are currently over .500 is a big advantage, vs. Detroit who still has at least one series left vs. everyone in the AL, and the Sox.

Games left vs. teams over .500 (currently):
Sox - 51 of 74 (.689), 30 R, 21 H
Det - 46 of 75 (.613), 22 R, 24 H
Min - 36 of 73 (.493), 21 R, 15 H

We also have the makeup with the Flubs, who are at .500.

russ99
07-16-2009, 09:09 AM
17-24 isn't totally horrid (totally horrid would be the Orioles at 14-27, or the Nationals at 10-35, but they're horrid everywhere). Getting to avoid 4 of the 8 teams in the AL (outside of themselves) who are currently over .500 is a big advantage, vs. Detroit who still has at least one series left vs. everyone in the AL, and the Sox.

Games left vs. teams over .500 (currently):
Sox - 49 of 74 (.662), 29 R, 20 H
Det - 46 of 75 (.613), 22 R, 24 H
Min - 36 of 73 (.493), 21 R, 15 H

We also have the makeup with the Flubs, who are at .500.

We'e obviously going to need to step up to win the division, which IMO is how it should be anyway.

Railsplitter
07-16-2009, 10:40 AM
Given that the Sox didn't play that well the last week and a half before the break, maybe the respite will do them some good. Sometimes teams that start of sluggish get hot after the break, while team that play great before the break fizzle afterwards. it's one of those things.

If the Tigers play at the same place they've been playing and the Sox win 2/3 of thier reamaining games, the Sox should be able to overtake the Tigers.

August is the key. April may have been the cruelest month for T.S. Eliot, but for sox fans August is often the creulest month.

Bob G
07-16-2009, 11:00 AM
The full breakdown:
Sox - 6 vs. Bal (6 H), 7 vs. Bos (4 R, 3 H), 6 vs. Cle (3 H, 3 R), 10 vs. Det (7 R, 3 H), 6 vs. KC (6 H), 6 vs. LAA (3 R, 3 H), 9 vs. Min (6 R, 3 H), 7 vs. NYY (3 R, 4 H), 5 vs. Oak (3 R, 2 H), 6 vs. Sea (6 R), 4 vs. TB (4 H). 1 vs. Cubs (1 R). Do not play Texas or Toronto.

Det- 4 vs. Bal (4 H), 4 vs. Bos (4 R), 10 vs. Sox (3 R, 7 H), 9 vs. Cle (6 R, 3 H), 9 vs. KC (3 R, 6 H), 3 vs. LAA (3 R), 10 vs. Min (3 R, 7 H), 3 vs. NYY (3 R), 3 vs. Oak (3 R), 6 vs. Sea (6 H), 7 vs. TB (3 R, 4 H), 3 vs. Tex (3 R), 4 vs. Tor (4 H).

Min - 3 vs. Bal (3 H), 9 vs. Sox (3 R, 6 H), 12 vs. Cle (6 R, 6 H), 10 vs. Det (7 R, 3 H), 12 vs. KC (6 R, 6 H), 7 vs. LAA (4 R, 3 H), 6 vs. Oak (3 R, 3 H), 10 vs. Tex (7 R, 3 H), 4 vs. Tor (4 R). Do not play Boston, New York, Seattle, or Tampa Bay.

Schedule definitely favors the Twins, except that they only have 33 home games left (40 road). Detroit has 41 home, 34 road; Sox have 38 home, 36 road.
We actually play Boston 8 times (4 R, 4 H)

WhiteSoxFTW
07-16-2009, 05:20 PM
Agreed...If I hear another one of those "If I had told you......." reasonings again, I will barf.

EDIT- That 4-8 Homestand (losing to the A's Indians and culminating in a tough loss to the Tigers) may haunt us later.

I definitely agree. The 1-3 series against the Athletics really, really hurt us. Also, pitching Richard on short rest to the Indians may, in hindsight, have been a really bad move.

The Sox always play the Yankees tough, so I actually feel pretty good about our games with them. And **** the Red Sox. They may have the best record, but they look far from unbeatable. I would love nothing more than to beat those assbags. I was afraid of Manny and the old Ortiz, but these new guys along with washed-up Ortiz don't intimidate me nearly as much - as solid as they may be. Bring 'em on, I won't be content "just going .500" against these teams. I want to ****ing win. I just hope the Sox players have the same attitude I do.

They are professionals...if they don't have a winning attitude, they shouldn't be on the White Sox. I mean, come on, it's not like we are the Cubs. :wink:

SCCWS
07-16-2009, 05:28 PM
The Sox always play the Yankees tough, so I actually feel pretty good about our games with them. And **** the Red Sox. They may have the best record, but they look far from unbeatable. I would love nothing more than to beat those assbags. I was afraid of Manny and the old Ortiz, but these new guys along with washed-up Ortiz don't intimidate me nearly as much - as solid as they may be. Bring 'em on, I won't be content "just going .500" against these teams. I want to ****ing win. I just hope the Sox players have the same attitude I do.

Red Sox have a hell of a lot of depth which is a major difference between them and White Sox. CQ should be a major boost but Red Sox have been playing w/o their starting 3rd basman and SS-both activated yesterday. They also added Smoltz recently and have 2 major league quality pitchers in AAA they don't have a spot for. My concern is Ortiz gets hot 2nd half when we see them.

guillensdisciple
07-16-2009, 09:12 PM
I would rather see the Sox play this second half schedule. If we do make the playoffs, the Sox will be ready for all comers and might eek out a successful playoff run.

What a better way to prepare for October than being in a constant mindset of October?

Lip Man 1
07-16-2009, 10:40 PM
FTW:

It's not just the A's. If memory serves the Sox have lost 16 games combined to the garbage clubs of the league, Baltimore, Oakland, Kansas City and Cleveland.

That's an awful lot of losses to teams who have the record they do for a reason.

Lip

Zakath
07-17-2009, 06:07 AM
We actually play Boston 8 times (4 R, 4 H)

Sorry, missed the wraparound Monday game on that one.

Also means I messed up the games over .500 percentage. It's actually 51 of 74 games left that we play against teams over .500 (the Flubs' win in DC put them over), or 68.9% of the remaining games. 8 series left with sub-.500's, 15 + the makeup game vs. teams over .500.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-17-2009, 01:35 PM
FTW:

It's not just the A's. If memory serves the Sox have lost 16 games combined to the garbage clubs of the league, Baltimore, Oakland, Kansas City and Cleveland.

That's an awful lot of losses to teams who have the record they do for a reason.

Lip

Well, we have 3 more games against the Orioles this weekend. I sure hope we sweep them because we will really need those wins.