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pythons007
07-10-2009, 09:51 PM
I hate the Twins, Carlos Gomez, Nick Punto, Joe Nathan and his constant 0-2 counts, and that crap dome.

thomas35forever
07-10-2009, 09:52 PM
I'd like to buy the Dome so I can legally burn it down and piss on the ashes.

Jurr
07-10-2009, 09:52 PM
I am glad to see that this team didn't fold up and played some pretty decent baseball to get back into it. It looks like we're well beyond the days of long swings, heads down, and accepting losses in Minnesota.

SoxGirl4Life
07-10-2009, 09:52 PM
Just pull any post game thread from last year and re-post. Same crap. I'm not going to give our guests the opportunity to see me rant about their beautiful stadium and wonderful team.

ChicagoHoosier
07-10-2009, 09:53 PM
Twinkies deserved this one. We handed it to them early, they made plays when it counted in the field and scored late when needed. We didn't make the most of every opportunity, such as some RISP and another runner on 3rd not scoring with less than two out. Let's get the next two!

cleanwsox
07-10-2009, 09:53 PM
Only 8 games left at the Dump.

:bandance:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-10-2009, 09:53 PM
I hate the Twins, Carlos Gomez, Nick Punto, Joe Nathan and his constant 0-2 counts, and that crap dome.

The Twins are crappy. They are perpetual losers.*

* - except when they play the Sox at the Garbage Bag.

gobears1987
07-10-2009, 09:53 PM
Only 8 left in that hell hole.

doublem23
07-10-2009, 09:53 PM
I am glad to see that this team didn't fold up and played some pretty decent baseball to get back into it. It looks like we're well beyond the days of long swings, heads down, and accepting losses in Minnesota.

I'm withholding judgment until after the next two games.

Though, probably any other year, the Sox pack it in after that 1st inning. Wish we could have had that 1 big inning, though. :(:

JB98
07-10-2009, 09:54 PM
The White Sox pitchers walked six men tonight. Five of them scored.

Any pitcher who walks .208-hitting Nick Punto should be fined the maximum amount allowed under the collective bargaining agreement.

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to blame DeWayne Wise for the loss, but the Sox pitching staff blew this game by refusing to throw strikes to non-power hitters like Punto, Denard Span and Brendan Harris.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 09:54 PM
I am glad to see that this team didn't fold up and played some pretty decent baseball to get back into it. It looks like we're well beyond the days of long swings, heads down, and accepting losses in Minnesota.

Gotta agree. Just a horrible 1st inning, without it this is a Sox winner.

Hartman
07-10-2009, 09:55 PM
When you walk the first four batters and give up four runs in the 1st inning, you deserve to lose.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 09:55 PM
The problem with this team is the offense.

Good job not using a pinch-hitter for the .190 hitter in the 9th inning.
Can't fault the result - one day, the ground balls will sneak through.
2007, redux.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 09:55 PM
The White Sox pitchers walked six men tonight. Five of them scored.

Any pitcher who walks .208-hitting Nick Punto should be fined the maximum amount allowed under the collective bargaining agreement.

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to blame DeWayne Wise for the loss, but the Sox pitching staff blew this game by refusing to throw strikes to non-power hitters like Punto, Denard Span and Brendan Harris.

But with one exception - A perfectly good strike was thrown to Mauer with 1st base open and an out. :shrug:

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2009, 09:55 PM
The top and bottom of our lineup was pretty bad tonight, too.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-10-2009, 09:55 PM
the Sox pitching staff blew this game by refusing to throw strikes to non-power hitters like Punto, Denard Span and Brendan Harris.

Those are the guys who always manage to get those cheap hits and infield singles on us.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 09:56 PM
I HATE Jason Kubel with a deep passion.

It's Dankerific
07-10-2009, 09:56 PM
I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to blame DeWayne Wise for the loss, but the Sox pitching staff blew this game by refusing to throw strikes to non-power hitters like Punto, Denard Span and Brendan Harris.

Mr. Wise certainly didn't HELP.

AnkleSox
07-10-2009, 09:56 PM
Man, I hate the ****ing twins and their know-nothing fans.

That being said, 15 walks in two games...yikes.

Demps2
07-10-2009, 09:57 PM
do you know why they always beat us there? they EXECUTE!!!!!! and they don't make mistakes. They had less hits, and still won the game. stolen bases, NO WALKS, bunts, it goes on and on. We are a better team than them ON PAPER. but year after year we lose. it's has nothing to do w/ talent, it's execution. you don't let up 5 walks that all score and win much.

doublem23
07-10-2009, 09:57 PM
The problem with this team is the offense.

Good job not using a pinch-hitter for the .190 hitter in the 9th inning.
Can't fault the result - one day, the ground balls will sneak through.
2007, redux.

I know it doesn't matter, because Dewayne Wise is Dewayne Wise and even though he did hit the ball hard tonight, who is supposed to bat for him? Fields (.226), Anderson (.226), Nix (.231), or Castro (.115)?

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 09:58 PM
5 of 6 runs scored on walks. It's as simple as that.

spawn
07-10-2009, 09:58 PM
The top and bottom of our lineup was pretty bad tonight, too.
3 of our 4 rbi's came from the bottom of the order.

JB98
07-10-2009, 09:58 PM
Those are the guys who always manage to get those cheap hits and infield singles on us.

The Sox need to make those players hit their way on.

The Twins throw strikes to our weak hitters - and get outs. Our pitchers must do the same to the crap Minnesota trots out there at the bottom of their lineup.

Brian26
07-10-2009, 09:59 PM
I am glad to see that this team didn't fold up and played some pretty decent baseball to get back into it. It looks like we're well beyond the days of long swings, heads down, and accepting losses in Minnesota.

Yep, this was a far cry from the some of the crap we've seen up there through the years, dating back to Jose Valentin and Carlos Lee mailing it in and flu-ridden Loaiza getting hammered on the mound. This team showed some fight tonight, and Danks did a hell of a job of saving our bullpen for the rest of the 1st half.

NDSox12
07-10-2009, 10:00 PM
The problem with this team is the offense.

Good job not using a pinch-hitter for the .190 hitter in the 9th inning.
Can't fault the result - one day, the ground balls will sneak through.
2007, redux.

The Twins announcers mentioned the Sox have two pinch hits this SEASON. Which guy would you have brought off the bench to face Nathan?

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2009, 10:00 PM
3 of our 4 rbi's came from the bottom of the order.

I'm taking about the #1 and # 9 hitters specifically.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to blame DeWayne Wise for the loss.
As long as people insist on apologizing for the .190 hitter (it's all over the game-thread; his grounouts were hit so hard) and the managerial decision that wheels him out there night after night no matter how badly he hits, I'll be here to point out that MAYBE we might try something different.
After all, it's hard to win games 4-3, which is what we'd have had to hold them to to win tonight.

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2009, 10:03 PM
As long as people insist on apologizing for the .190 hitter (it's all over the game-thread; his grounouts were hit so hard) and the managerial decision that wheels him out there night after night no matter how badly he hits, I'll be here to point out that MAYBE we might try something different.
After all, it's hard to win games 4-3, which is what we'd have had to hold them to to win tonight.

While I agree on the .190 hitter issue, it's hard to defend against the walks.

voodoochile
07-10-2009, 10:04 PM
I just closed the BA and Wise threads in the Roadhouse. If people insist on turning this thread into the same tired debate, I'll simply start banning people.

That goes for both the people taunting the FOBA's and the FOBA's themselves. I apologize for using that term, but I don't see an alternate that describes the situation as well.

Red Barchetta
07-10-2009, 10:05 PM
Take away the first inning and it's a pretty good game. Let's take the next two and continue our winning series streak into the All-Star break.

Stay positive! Big Q will also be back.

sullythered
07-10-2009, 10:05 PM
do you know why they always beat us there? they EXECUTE!!!!!! and they don't make mistakes. They had less hits, and still won the game. stolen bases, NO WALKS, bunts, it goes on and on. We are a better team than them ON PAPER. but year after year we lose. it's has nothing to do w/ talent, it's execution. you don't let up 5 walks that all score and win much.
Well, in truth, we are much more successful than them in recent years. That said, I ****ing hate this pimpy ******* team and their peice of **** garbage bag park.

ms620
07-10-2009, 10:05 PM
Anyone posting in this thread about Wise (which really is the same thing as supporting BA) really is clueless about baseball. Get over your love for BA. Wise hit the ball hard. He did not make any poor defensive plays. Enough already. You guys are really pathetic. The way you speak it is almost if you hope Wise fails so you can blow BA. Get over him.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 10:05 PM
The Twins announcers mentioned the Sox have two pinch hits this SEASON. Which guy would you have brought off the bench to face Nathan?In how many at bats?
Fields
Nix
Anderson
Castro
Beuhrle

Did I miss anybody?
Wise is hitting .190; his CAREEER average is .212.
He's 32 - he's not a young player.
It's like people are completely oblivious to his reality.

1989
07-10-2009, 10:06 PM
Negatives

- **** first inning by #50. How you can go out there and walk the first four guys, ESPECIALLY after what happened yesterday is 100% inexcusable.

- Not getting that crucial run in on 3rd with one out in the 6th and the game tied.

- Letting two guys steal 3rd base. Seriously? Can this stop? This happens way too much and it is a problem

- Umpire. That was ****ing brutal. Call the IHSA and you would get a better job than that.

Positives

- Danks picked up the pieces and had a great rest of the game. From the 2nd inning on, you can't ask more from your starter than what he gave us out there. Great recovery

- Our hitters hit the ball hard. Really hard. Almost every single time up there and every single pitch, I felt like our hitters were going to get a hit. I had the ultimate confidence in our guys. Also, we had more balls hit right to guys and hits stolen away from us than normal, we brought the sticks today.

- Defense: We didn't F up today. Good job in the dome, especially our CF


As pissed as I am about losing to these clowns, remember this is only one game and we are still in 2nd.

Oh, I almost forgot: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200810013577846&c_id=cws

voodoochile
07-10-2009, 10:06 PM
Take away the first inning and it's a pretty good game. Let's take the next two and continue our winning series streak into the All-Star break.

Stay positive! Big Q will also be back.

There it is...

Well said.

One more biscuit for breakfast for Getz and this game might have had a different outcome...

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-10-2009, 10:07 PM
8 more games, 8 more games, 8 more games...

Sep. 2nd will be a second birthday and Christmas combined for me.

Demps2
07-10-2009, 10:07 PM
Well, in truth, we are much more successful than them in recent years. That said, I ****ing hate this pimpy ******* team and their peice of **** garbage bag park.


I meant playing them in the dome. I know we have more success elsewhere.

ZombieRob
07-10-2009, 10:07 PM
Anyone think or thought that Konekro should have played in on Gomez? The guy was hitting 218 and facing Jenks. So the bunt IMO was really the only weapon he had. I know the run didn't make a difference. It was just the defensive decision that was curious.

voodoochile
07-10-2009, 10:07 PM
Anyone posting in this thread about Wise (which really is the same thing as supporting BA) really is clueless about baseball. Get over your love for BA. Wise hit the ball hard. He did not make any poor defensive plays. Enough already. You guys are really pathetic. The way you speak it is almost if you hope Wise fails so you can blow BA. Get over him.

Okay, that's your warning and it's the last one I'm issuing. Next person sits until after the ASG...

voodoochile
07-10-2009, 10:08 PM
Anyone think or thought that Konekro should have played in on Gomez? The guy was hitting 218 and facing Jenks. So the bunt IMO was really the only weapon he had. I know the run didn't make a difference. It was just the defensive decision that was curious.

That was one amazing bunt. I don't know if it would have helped.

1989
07-10-2009, 10:08 PM
The White Sox pitchers walked six men tonight. Five of them scored.

Any pitcher who walks .208-hitting Nick Punto should be fined the maximum amount allowed under the collective bargaining agreement.

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to blame DeWayne Wise for the loss, but the Sox pitching staff blew this game by refusing to throw strikes to non-power hitters like Punto, Denard Span and Brendan Harris.

I would rather let nick punto hit off of a tee than walk his sorry ass

NDSox12
07-10-2009, 10:08 PM
In how many at bats?
Fields
Nix
Anderson
Castro
Beuhrle

Did I miss anybody?
Wise is hitting .190; his CAREEER average is .212.
He's 32 - he's not a young player.
It's like people are completely oblivious to his reality.

I was specifically talking about pinch hitting in the 9th ONLY. According to the Twins announcers, the Sox are something like 2 for 45 pinch hitting this season. I'll look it up.

WhiteSox1989
07-10-2009, 10:09 PM
As others have said, this game was determined by that first inning. If Danks didn't have his head in his ass that first inning, Sox would have won, and I would be celebrating on this lovely Friday night.

Oh also, http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=3577847

suckaaaaas.

Jim Shorts
07-10-2009, 10:10 PM
do you know why they always beat us there? they EXECUTE!!!!!! and they don't make mistakes. They had less hits, and still won the game. stolen bases, NO WALKS, bunts, it goes on and on. We are a better team than them ON PAPER. but year after year we lose. it's has nothing to do w/ talent, it's execution. you don't let up 5 walks that all score and win much.

It's been this way for years.

JB98
07-10-2009, 10:10 PM
I would rather let nick punto hit off of a tee than walk his sorry ass

I agree completely. That walk cost us this game.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 10:11 PM
I was specifically talking about pinch hitting in the 9th ONLY.
Well, my that was my list. I'd have hit anybody.

As I type this, I'm watching MacDougal cough one up for the Nats. Looks like he always id.

NDSox12
07-10-2009, 10:15 PM
Well, my that was my list. I'd have hit anybody.

As I type this, I'm watching MacDougal cough one up for the Nats. Looks like he always id.

Ok, I got the exact number. The Sox are 2 for 47 pinch hitting this season. That pencils out to a .043 average.

ZombieRob
07-10-2009, 10:15 PM
That was one amazing bunt. I don't know if it would have helped.
I see your point. The one thing I do like about the Sox wether they do well the rest of the way or not, is that were finally seeing players that are line drive hitters and can spray to all fields at the top and bottem of the order.The expierance they get the better they are going to get IMO.

Alexie is starting to shoot the ball to the right, which is starting to pay off him at the plate. Is making him a much more dangerous hitter. Beckham reminds me of a young Paul Molitar (sp). Quick Compact and shoots the ball all over the field.

Jim Shorts
07-10-2009, 10:16 PM
Ok, I got the exact number. The Sox are 2 for 47 pinch hitting this season. That pencils out to a .043 average.

that will get you nowhere fast

cheezheadsoxfan
07-10-2009, 10:16 PM
Well, my that was my list. I'd have hit anybody.

As I type this, I'm watching MacDougal cough one up for the Nats. Looks like he always id.

Cold comfort.
Let's get the next two.

Soxman219
07-10-2009, 10:17 PM
This is exactly what I predicted. We will probably win the next two. :smile:

Just 8 more games in that craphole!:bandance:

Jim Shorts
07-10-2009, 10:17 PM
I see your point. The one thing I do like about the Sox wether they do well the rest of the way or not, is that were finally seeing players that are line drive hitters and can spray to all fields at the top and bottem of the order.The expierance they get the better they are going to get IMO.

Alexie is starting to shoot the ball to the right, which is starting to pay off him at the plate. Is making him a much more dangerous hitter. Beckham reminds me of a young Paul Molitar (sp). Quick Compact and shoots the ball all over the field.

that's a good comparison.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 10:20 PM
Ok, I got the exact number. The Sox are 2 for 47 pinch hitting this season. That pencils out to a .043 average.
Bad hitting bench - you don't have to tell me.

I just don't think it's that hard to find some speedy guy for CF who can hit .250. You could find one for less than Brandon Allen.
This guy for the Nats looks like a guy that Ozzie would love (Not that he' be cheap - he's a good player I think the NATS gave up some real talent for).

Chicken Dinner
07-10-2009, 10:25 PM
This one was clearly a Danks meltdown in the first.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 10:25 PM
Anyone know who is starting tomorrow for the Twins? Hawk said "undertermined."

Anyways, Floyd's looked dominant lately, so I'm sure he'll give the Twinkies all they can handle.

NDSox12
07-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Anyone know who is starting tomorrow for the Twins? Hawk said "undertermined."

Anyways, Floyd's looked dominant lately, so I'm sure he'll give the Twinkies all they can handle.

Pretty sure it will be Perkins. He's been sick the last few days, but it sounded like he'll be ready to go tomorrow.

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Anyone know who is starting tomorrow for the Twins? Hawk said "undertermined."

Anyways, Floyd's looked dominant lately, so I'm sure he'll give the Twinkies all they can handle.

Depends on Perkins health. I'll bet he goes and we hammer him :redneck

gobears1987
07-10-2009, 10:31 PM
that will get you nowhere fast
I think I'll take a .190 average over a collective .043 average. Neither choice is appealing though.

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 10:35 PM
Just watched Getz sac fly again. Does the Twinkie Dome have fans or something? I thought that ball was gonna go way out and it just died in the outfield.

ChicagoG19
07-10-2009, 10:43 PM
Just watched Getz sac fly again. Does the Twinkie Dome have fans or something? I thought that ball was gonna go way out and it just died in the outfield.

I think they do. Wasn't that a big deal when the twins made the world series in 91.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-10-2009, 10:44 PM
Just watched Getz sac fly again. Does the Twinkie Dome have fans or something? I thought that ball was gonna go way out and it just died in the outfield.

That would be the world-famous HumpDome blowers.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 10:44 PM
Just watched Getz sac fly again. Does the Twinkie Dome have fans or something? I thought that ball was gonna go way out and it just died in the outfield.
That's been something that's been well talked about here over the years.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 10:50 PM
That's been something that's been well talked about here over the years.

This (http://www.aem.umn.edu/outreach/Baseball_Launcher/startrib1.pdf) goes back to the late 80s.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 10:51 PM
Well....Blackburn is the best they are throwing at us this weekend. So let's just win the next two.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 10:52 PM
By certain folks mathematics I guess we loss 2 games today. Makes that Indian loss hurt even more now.

This thing was bad from the start. We had a chance to bust this thing open and failed.

Jenks was typical Jenks in a non-save situation.

Man, these damn walks are going to make Ozzie go nuts soon.

I think the Allstar break is just what the doctor ordered. DJ Carrasco's over-use is my biggest concern going forward the second half. I hope Richard is put away for good so that DJ can make it pass August.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 10:53 PM
Just watched Getz sac fly again. Does the Twinkie Dome have fans or something? I thought that ball was gonna go way out and it just died in the outfield.


Maybe Chris Gets should stop trying to hit flyballs :shrug:

It's about 315 down that line, that's an out in every ML park out there.

JB98
07-10-2009, 10:55 PM
Maybe Chris Gets should stop trying to hit flyballs :shrug:

It's about 315 down that line, that's an out in every ML park out there.

There's a man on third and less than two outs. In that situation, we want a fly ball.

EuroSox35
07-10-2009, 10:57 PM
This mlblog pretty much nailed my feelings on the game:

You have to wonder if the extra day of rest affected Danks tonight. He did seem to improve his control issues as the game went on, and you have to figure that that little bit of rust came into play and may have been the difference in the game tonight. I personally hate changing around the rotation for a specific series if it's going to mess with a pitcher's routine, and you can argue that it may have cost the Sox two straight games.

Should the Sox have pitched around Mauer in the 7th? It's pick your poison with Mauer and Morneau, but 1st base was open, and with that amazing average you figure Mauer has the better chance of getting the basehit. Thornton also has great stats against Morneau (3 for 18, .167 average).
http://chisoxchatter.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/july-10th-postgame---sox-come-short-against-twins-6-4.html

Tragg
07-10-2009, 10:57 PM
There's a man on third and less than two outs. In that situation, we want a fly ball.
We'll take the fly ball....but that's not exactly what you're looking for in that situation- behind in a building that you have have a hard time winning in and goofy stuff happens in the late innings when holding leads....you want the "crooked number" if you can get it.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 10:59 PM
There's a man on third and less than two outs. In that situation, we want a fly ball.


With Paul Konerko running and a good arm on every corner.... I don't think so.

It's a fast track out there, hit the ball on the floor and run.

That's how the Twins do it. Getz has the built of a Twins baseball player.

JB98
07-10-2009, 10:59 PM
We'll take the fly ball....but that's not exactly what you're looking for in that situation- behind in a building that you have have a hard time winning in and goofy stuff happens in the late innings when holding leads....you want the "crooked number" if you can get it.

He got one in and one over. Getz did his job in that spot.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:00 PM
With Paul Konerko running and a good arm on every corner.... I don't think so.

It's a fast track out there, hit the ball on the floor and run.

That's how the Twins do it. Getz has the built of a Twins baseball player.

How does Getz hitting on the ground and running make Paulie run any faster? Or AJ for that matter (who was on 2nd and also able to advance)?

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 11:00 PM
This mlblog pretty much nailed my feelings on the game:




http://chisoxchatter.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/july-10th-postgame---sox-come-short-against-twins-6-4.html


Don't blame Ozzie for the 7th inning, you'll get crucified.

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:01 PM
With Paul Konerko running and a good arm on every corner.... I don't think so.

It's a fast track out there, hit the ball on the floor and run.

That's how the Twins do it. Getz has the built of a Twins baseball player.

And if he had hit a one-hopper to the first baseman, the runners have to hold. Everyone here would be screaming about the lack of execution.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:01 PM
He got one in and one over. Getz did his job in that spot.


Yes he got the job done, but his approach on that AB is the same crappy approach he has had all season. Hit the ball high and 315 ft from home plate. It made it all the way to this wall because that's a short porch.

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 11:02 PM
With Paul Konerko running and a good arm on every corner.... I don't think so.

It's a fast track out there, hit the ball on the floor and run.

That's how the Twins do it. Getz has the built of a Twins baseball player.

No outs. 2nd and 3rd. Getz gets one in and one over and still gets ripped on. Yeah, ok buddy.

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:02 PM
Yes he got the job done, but his approach on that AB is the same crappy approach he has had all season. Hit the ball high and 315 ft from home plate. It made it all the way to this wall because that's a short porch.

The bolded part is all that matters.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:03 PM
And if he had hit a one-hopper to the first baseman, the runners have to hold. Everyone here would be screaming about the lack of execution.


OK. God forbid our lightweight hitters can find a hole. I guess only the Twins are good at that.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:04 PM
The bolded part is all that matters.

Not for the long term plan.

Winning a battle does not win the war.

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:06 PM
Not for the long term plan.

Winning a battle does not win the war.

Every time Chris Getz bats with men at second and third and no outs for the rest of his White Sox career, I will take a fly ball to right that advances both runners.

That's the right way to play the game. I think it fits the long-term plan just fine. As a matter of fact, we need more of that type of hitting from the White Sox. Situational hitting has been a weakness for three years.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Yes he got the job done, but his approach on that AB is the same crappy approach he has had all season. Hit the ball high and 315 ft from home plate. It made it all the way to this wall because that's a short porch.

OK. God forbid our lightweight hitters can find a hole. I guess only the Twins are good at that.

Not for the long term plan.

Winning a battle does not win the war.


Holy ****. If that's your beef with this game, there's nothing to really argue as you clearly didn't see it.

That ball was gone. A few inches up, right/left, it's a 3 run HR, or worse, off the wall (baggy) and scoring 2.

It was a hell of a drive and a hell of a catch.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:07 PM
No outs. 2nd and 3rd. Getz gets one in and one over and still gets ripped on. Yeah, ok buddy.


No one is ripping on him, buddy.

All I'm saying is that his approach (post the first 3 weeks of the season) sucks.

He thinks he's a HR hitter when he's not.

The Sox did not lose because of Getz today, lets make that clear. But little things like this need to be pointed out about his development as a ML hitter.

The Immigrant
07-10-2009, 11:08 PM
OK. God forbid our lightweight hitters can find a hole. I guess only the Twins are good at that.

Getz did his job in that situation. Give it a ****ing rest.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 11:09 PM
Getz did his job in that situation. Give it a ****ing rest.
Yes, he did. And the guys batting behind Getz did not do their job to get in AJ.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:09 PM
Holy ****. If that's your beef with this game, there's nothing to really argue as you clearly didn't see it.

That ball was gone. A few inches up, right/left, it's a 3 run HR, or worse, off the wall and scoring 2.


My beef about the game is crappy pitching, again.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2009, 11:10 PM
Talking about pinch hitting Steve Stone was on Chicago Tribune Live! earlier this week and they were talking about it. He said pinch hitting is a job that takes time to learn and is really only done best by veteran bench players. He said the trend in MLB today is to not have expensive veterans sitting on the bench which is why pinch hitting averages are so low this year not just with the Sox, although he said it's very bad with them.

----------------------------

It's ironic that in his pregame notes today Mark Gonzales mentioned that there were eight Twins on the field in pregame, taking bunting practice.

No surprise a bunt helped get the winning and insurance runs home.

That's 10 of the last 11 at the House of Horrors.

Lip

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:10 PM
No one is ripping on him, buddy.

All I'm saying is that his approach (post the first 3 weeks of the season) sucks.

He thinks he's a HR hitter when he's not.

The Sox did not lose because of Getz today, lets make that clear. But little things like this need to be pointed out about his development as a ML hitter.

You must have missed Getz's 4-for-4 performance on Thursday vs. Cleveland.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:10 PM
Getz did his job in that situation. Give it a ****ing rest.

OK, sorry.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:12 PM
You must have missed Getz's 4-for-4 performance on Thursday vs. Cleveland.


No I did not.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 11:13 PM
My beef about the game is crappy pitching, again.
Aside from the first inning, Danks threw a hell of a game. Maybe Ozzie could've leaved him in for another batter or two, though.

I thought it was bad judgment by Thornton to pitch to Mauer in the 7th. You walk him, and you have a force at 2 bases for Morneau.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:13 PM
No I did not.

Then you must admit that you are talking out of your ass, then. :shrug:

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:15 PM
Aside from the first inning, Danks threw a hell of a game. Maybe Ozzie could've leaved him in for another batter or two, though.

I thought it was bad judgment by Thornton to pitch to Mauer in the 7th. You walk him, and you have a force at 2 bases for Morneau.

Agree again. Still not sure why you give a guy who HITS himself on base almost 40% of the time a chance. Go with the next lefty/lefty matchup (Morneau).

That was just stupid as hell (in hindsight).

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:17 PM
Then you must admit that you are talking out of your ass, then. :shrug:


Watch the insults.

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:19 PM
Agree again. Still not sure why you give a guy who HITS himself on base almost 40% of the time a chance. Go with the next lefty/lefty matchup (Morneau).

That was just stupid as hell (in hindsight).

Playing devil's advocate here, the Sox haven't had very much luck intentionally walking guys. It always seems to bite Ozzie in the ass, even when the intentional walk is the correct (and obvious) move.

On June 4, he had Buehrle walk Matt Holliday to get to Giambi. Of course, Giambi hits a 3-run HR. On June 12, he had Dotel walk Jason Kendall to get to the pitcher, Jeff Suppan. Suppan singles in the tying run, and the Sox go on to lose. Etc., etc., etc.

I'd be tempted to never walk anybody intentionally again, with the way things have gone.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:19 PM
Aside from the first inning, Danks threw a hell of a game. Maybe Ozzie could've leaved him in for another batter or two, though.

I thought it was bad judgment by Thornton to pitch to Mauer in the 7th. You walk him, and you have a force at 2 bases for Morneau.

Yeah, it's pick your poison there.

I still think Morneu is more dangerous than Mauer, just my opinion. Morneu just rarely strikes out for a power hitter.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Playing devil's advocate here, the Sox haven't had very much luck intentionally walking guys. It always seems to bite Ozzie in the ass, even when the intentional walk is the correct (and obvious) move.

On June 4, he had Buehrle walk Matt Holliday to get to Giambi. Of course, Giambi hits a 3-run HR. On June 12, he had Dotel walk Jason Kendall to get to the pitcher, Jeff Suppan. Suppan singles in the tying run, and the Sox go on to lose. Etc., etc., etc.

I'd be tempted to never walk anybody intentionally again, with the way things have gone.

But statistically the odds are in your favor. 1 out, man on 2nd - you intentionally walk you open up 3 bases for outs on a ground ball vs just 1 (1st base).

As it were, the second base runner basically trotted to 3rd uncontested and Mauer simply did what he always does. In fact, even a groundball to 2b for the force at 1st would've scored that runner anyway.

It was a dumb oversight, and yeah it's easy to point out in hindsight, but a manager should see this in a gametime situation.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Watch the insults.

I sincerely apologize if you are "insulted" by having your own quotes contradicting themselves in plain sight. :rolleyes:

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:24 PM
But statistically the odds are in your favor. 1 out, man on 2nd - you intentionally walk you open up 3 bases for outs on a ground ball vs just 1 (1st base).

As it were, the second base runner basically trotted to 3rd uncontested and Mauer simply did what he always does. In fact, even a groundball to 2b for the force at 1st would've scored that runner anyway.

It was a dumb oversight, and yeah it's easy to point out in hindsight, but a manager should see this in a gametime situation.

Weren't there two outs with Mauer at the plate?

I certainly understand the arguments for walking Mauer in that situation. In fact, it's the percentage play.

I'm just saying I personally cringe whenever the Sox walk a man intentionally. Even when I completely agree with the move, it seems to backfire on the team.

voodoochile
07-10-2009, 11:24 PM
No one is ripping on him, buddy.

All I'm saying is that his approach (post the first 3 weeks of the season) sucks.

He thinks he's a HR hitter when he's not.

The Sox did not lose because of Getz today, lets make that clear. But little things like this need to be pointed out about his development as a ML hitter.

What are you talking about. He just had a 5 PA, 5 times on base game yesterday. That included a chopper off the plate and a walk. He's NOT swinging for the fences all the time not even close but why would you want to teach him not to turn and burn on pitches when he can?

Konerko05
07-10-2009, 11:24 PM
I had no problem with Thornton pitching to Mauer. My problem was Thornton throwing him a fastball waist-high right down the middle of the plate after falling behind 2-0. At that point, he should've tried to let Mauer get himself out by swinging at pitches out of the zone or just put him on.

Throwing him a fastball right down the middle with a 2-0 count was basically putting the ball on a tee for Mauer.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Weren't there two outs with Mauer at the plate?

I certainly understand the arguments for walking Mauer in that situation. In fact, it's the percentage play.

I'm just saying I personally cringe whenever the Sox walk a man intentionally. Even when I completely agree with the move, it seems to backfire on the team.

No difference. With 2 outs, makes even more sense.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Yeah, it's pick your poison there.

I still think Morneu is more dangerous than Mauer, just my opinion. Morneu just rarely strikes out for a power hitter.
But, maybe he grounds out, and no runs score.

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:27 PM
No difference. With 2 outs, makes even more sense.

It was two outs. Here's the inning:

- N. Punto walked
- M. Thornton relieved O. Dotel
- D. Span sacrificed to third, N. Punto to second
- B. Harris lined out to center
- N. Punto stole third
- J. Mauer singled to center, N. Punto scored
- J. Morneau flied out to center

But you're right. It makes more sense with two outs than one.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 11:28 PM
Playing devil's advocate here, the Sox haven't had very much luck intentionally walking guys. It always seems to bite Ozzie in the ass, even when the intentional walk is the correct (and obvious) move..
I'm not going to beat up on him for that. It's a close call and I agree with you; putting runners on can lead to trouble and big innings. And even if you walked him you had another good hitter up.

That said, if he ever intentionally walks Jason Kendall again........:angry:

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 11:29 PM
I'm just saying I personally cringe whenever the Sox walk a man intentionally. Even when I completely agree with the move, it seems to backfire on the team.
I would if it were Dotel pitching, but this was Matt Thornton pitching! For the most part, he doesn't get rattled, has great composure. He would be able to work through that situation.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:31 PM
But, maybe he grounds out, and no runs score.

Yeah, that could be possible especially with a force at any base.

Man, I hate the Twins as much as the next guy here. But there is no other 3-4 combination in baseball today I fear more than Mauer/ Morneu. IMO it's the best in all of baseball.

drewcifer
07-10-2009, 11:32 PM
It was two outs. Here's the inning:

- N. Punto walked
- M. Thornton relieved O. Dotel
- D. Span sacrificed to third, N. Punto to second
- B. Harris lined out to center
- N. Punto stole third
- J. Mauer singled to center, N. Punto scored
- J. Morneau flied out to center

But you're right. It makes more sense with two outs than one.

:bliss:

And, if there were 1 out and an immediate walk, the other team is WAY LESS likely to run the steal to 3rd. It's harder to steal and it still leaves a force out of the inning at 2 bases. A double steal would be even more ballsy.

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:32 PM
What are you talking about. He just had a 5 PA, 5 times on base game yesterday. That included a chopper off the plate and a walk. He's NOT swinging for the fences all the time not even close but why would you want to teach him not to turn and burn on pitches when he can?


I gave up the arguement already.

I just didn't like the AB as much as everyone else did. That's all.

I wanted more of the slappy happy stuff from before. That's all.

JB98
07-10-2009, 11:33 PM
I would if it were Dotel pitching, but this was Matt Thornton pitching! For the most part, he doesn't get rattled, has great composure. He would be able to work through that situation.

I personally would not have walked Mauer. I trust Thornton, and I'm sick and tired of intentional walks leading to big innings against the Sox.

But as I indicated, I understand the arguments in favor of walking Mauer. Certainly, people are justified in questioning the decision-making in that scenario since Mauer singled in the go-ahead run.

Britt Burns
07-10-2009, 11:37 PM
ugh I can't stand the Twins. Actually, its not even the team so much as how the Sox always play against them.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2009, 11:48 PM
Britt:

You wonder if now it's become a subconscious thing with the Sox players in Minnesota, 'how are we going to lose today?..'

We're not talking about the Pirates, the Sox have had good teams most of this decade yet since 2000 they are now 33-49 in the House of Horrors and the record has gotten worse every year since 2005.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
07-10-2009, 11:54 PM
Britt:

You wonder if now it's become a subconscious thing with the Sox players in Minnesota, 'how are we going to lose today?..'

We're not talking about the Pirates, the Sox have had good teams most of this decade yet since 2000 they are now 33-49 in the House of Horrors and the record has gotten worse every year since 2005.

Lip


33-49 is not that bad. I would have thought it was worse than that.

I bet the Tigers or Royals have a similar record like that in our home, even the Twins.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Love:

Here's the record the past few years:

2005: 6-3
2006: 5-5
2007: 4-5
2008: 1-8

The worst stretch this decade was 2001 through 2003 when the Sox went 7-21...that set the tone mentally with some of these guys.

How this is affecting the younger players I can't say, maybe they just read and see and hear so much talk about how the Sox fall apart in Minnesota that it begins to cause them the same issues, I don't know.

Regarding the Tigers and Royals you aren't exactly talking about two of the better franchise this decade are you? That's what I meant when I said we're not talking about the Pirates etc. The Sox have had seven winning seasons and a .500 one in nine years, yet something happens to them in Minnesota.

Lip

doublem23
07-10-2009, 11:59 PM
33-49 is not that bad. I would have thought it was worse than that.

I bet the Tigers or Royals have a similar record like that in our home, even the Twins.

Since 2001, when the Twins got good, the Royals are 22-56 in Sox Park, Tigers 30-51, and even the Twins are just 37-44 (same record as Cleveland).

Brian26
07-11-2009, 12:13 AM
I personally would not have walked Mauer. I trust Thornton, and I'm sick and tired of intentional walks leading to big innings against the Sox.

But as I indicated, I understand the arguments in favor of walking Mauer. Certainly, people are justified in questioning the decision-making in that scenario since Mauer singled in the go-ahead run.

They flashed the numbers, and I'm sure Coop had the stats in the dugout, where Thornton owned both guys...something like 3-for-18 on one and 2-for-18 on the other. I didn't think it was a terrible move to pitch to Mauer.

ChiSoxGirl
07-11-2009, 12:16 AM
I went out to dinner at Moretti's in Edison Park with a few friends and of course, I pick the seat facing the Sox game. Eating dinner while watching John Danks walk the bases loaded in the first and then have all of those guys come around and score is not a good combination at all. I was so pissed. We left when it was 4-1 and I was surprised to find out it was only a 6-4 loss when I texted one of my friends to see what ended up happening.

Every time I watch a Sox game being played at the Baggie Dump, I just want to vomit. The pure hatred I feel for everything that is that piece of crap and everyone who wears a Twins uniform is unmatched by any other ballpark or team.

JB98
07-11-2009, 12:36 AM
Love:

Here's the record the past few years:

2005: 6-3
2006: 5-5
2007: 4-5
2008: 1-8

The worst stretch this decade was 2001 through 2003 when the Sox went 7-21...that set the tone mentally with some of these guys.

How this is affecting the younger players I can't say, maybe they just read and see and hear so much talk about how the Sox fall apart in Minnesota that it begins to cause them the same issues, I don't know.

Regarding the Tigers and Royals you aren't exactly talking about two of the better franchise this decade are you? That's what I meant when I said we're not talking about the Pirates etc. The Sox have had seven winning seasons and a .500 one in nine years, yet something happens to them in Minnesota.

Lip

I hope that's not the case. Buehrle and Konerko are the only two left from the 2003 team, I believe, so there's no reason for the struggles from 2001-03 to be affecting the current squad.

I do think Ozzie gives way too much love to the Twins in the paper. He makes them sound like they are the '27 Yankees at times. What they really are is a club that averages about 85 wins per year over the past decade. And this year, they are 44-43. Nothing special. If the Sox can't win at least one game in this series, then shame on them.

The Sox have their two best pitchers going the next two days. The opposition is mediocre. It's time for the excuses about the dome to end.

drewcifer
07-11-2009, 12:44 AM
They flashed the numbers, and I'm sure Coop had the stats in the dugout, where Thornton owned both guys...something like 3-for-18 on one and 2-for-18 on the other. I didn't think it was a terrible move to pitch to Mauer.

3-18 against Morneau.

4-16 against Mauer.

kitekrazy
07-11-2009, 12:57 AM
33-49 is not that bad. I would have thought it was worse than that.

I bet the Tigers or Royals have a similar record like that in our home, even the Twins.

I guess that opposing teams don't see the ball as well in that dome. So it should favor the guys who play 81 games there.

I doubt the fans like that dome. Who wants to see baseball indoors in July in the Midwest region?

I don't think it will be that advantageous when they have a real park.

Seeing that dome indoors has a depressing look to it.

tstrike2000
07-11-2009, 01:03 AM
Well, this is a scrappy Sox team. Let's just win the next 2 at the asspalace and get out of Dodge.

Lip Man 1
07-11-2009, 01:13 AM
JB:

When I wrote that I wasn't thinking as much about specific players... just the overall sense that OK, something's going to go wrong tonight, the funny hops, the bad bounces, walking four guys to start the game...that kind of stuff. The media gets on it, spreads it, other players read it, hear it, it begins to seep into the subconscious and starts playing mind-games. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Lip

JB98
07-11-2009, 01:18 AM
JB:

When I wrote that I wasn't thinking as much about specific players... just the overall sense that OK, something's going to go wrong tonight, the funny hops, the bad bounces, walking four guys to start the game...that kind of stuff. The media gets on it, spreads it, other players read it, hear it, it begins to seep into the subconscious and starts playing mind-games. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Lip

I would like to think the White Sox are not that soft mentally. Perhaps they are.

cnw8052
07-11-2009, 02:34 AM
Amen to that. I'm not a violent person, but the Twins just bring the hatred out in me.....:angry::angry::angry::angry:

I get pissed just hearing their player's names. No other team does that to me.

I went out to dinner at Moretti's in Edison Park with a few friends and of course, I pick the seat facing the Sox game. Eating dinner while watching John Danks walk the bases loaded in the first and then have all of those guys come around and score is not a good combination at all. I was so pissed. We left when it was 4-1 and I was surprised to find out it was only a 6-4 loss when I texted one of my friends to see what ended up happening.

Every time I watch a Sox game being played at the Baggie Dump, I just want to vomit. The pure hatred I feel for everything that is that piece of crap and everyone who wears a Twins uniform is unmatched by any other ballpark or team.

Frater Perdurabo
07-11-2009, 07:01 AM
I guess that opposing teams don't see the ball as well in that dome. So it should favor the guys who play 81 games there.

I doubt the fans like that dome. Who wants to see baseball indoors in July in the Midwest region?

I don't think it will be that advantageous when they have a real park.

Seeing that dome indoors has a depressing look to it.

Good post. The Twins are a solid fundamental team who play solid fundamental baseball no matter where they play.

Opposing teams have a disadvantage when playing at the DumpDume. This has the effect of conferring an "advantage" upon the Twins.

My sister married a Twins fan. He hates the dome, too.

SBSoxFan
07-11-2009, 07:05 AM
Amen to that. I'm not a violent person, but the Twins just bring the hatred out in me.....:angry::angry::angry::angry:

I get pissed just hearing their player's names. No other team does that to me.

I suppose Twins' fans feel the same way about the Yankees.

I said it in the game thread and I'll say it again: it's pretty obvious that the Twins relish beating the Sox. It's also obvious the only place this happens on a consistent basis is in that dome where the Twins have an obvious advantage. Just look at the home-and-home records from last years. However, with the makeup of the 2009 Sox that advantage has been lessened.

Unfortunately for the Twins there are 12 other AL teams they have to play. Given that and the fact that the Twins suck on the road (17-24 this year) --- just look at their best pitcher. He's 5-0 at home and 3-4 on the road --- I'm confident the Sox will finish better than the Twins.

These 9 home games against the Sox are all the Twins have. JB is right about them.

wassagstdu
07-11-2009, 07:32 AM
The one thing I do like about the Sox whether they do well the rest of the way or not, is that were finally seeing players that are line drive hitters and can spray to all fields at the top and bottom of the order. The more experience they get the better they are going to get IMO.

Alexei is starting to shoot the ball to the right, which is starting to pay off for him at the plate, making him a much more dangerous hitter. Beckham reminds me of a young Paul Molitor. Quick, compact and shoots the ball all over the field.

This is a different Sox team with a different approach lately -- since about the time Podsednik joined the team. They won't execute as well as the Twins, but they have more talent. About 4-4 in the remaining games at the dome, though 5-3 wouldn't surprise me.

The Twins played a good game with a 4-run gift in their pocket. The Sox need to work on holding runners on 2nd. Are they stealing on Beckham, who looks shaky on those throws? The last one was clearly on Jenks, short lead, but several steps on Jenks' slow delivery.

Looked like Ozzie left the decision to pitch to Mauer up to Thornton. Bad idea. Thornton wants to be aggressive, maybe too aggressive, like challenging Mauer on 2-0. Ozzie had the cooler head.

russ99
07-11-2009, 07:46 AM
Can't believe the angst around here for this one. It's just one game.

Sure it hurts to lose to the Twins on the road in a winnable game, but let's chalk that one up and go get them tonight.

Just that the Sox hung in there and competed hard all night in that hell hole is enough for me.

hawkjt
07-11-2009, 08:51 AM
Clearly, Twins plus Dome get under our skin as Sox fans. But whenever the angst gets too overwhelming....I just remember the Blackout game last year...who was jumping around in the middle of the infield after that game? Yea, that's right....Sox WIN!!

I will let the Twinkies celebrate those regular season squeakers in the dome vs the Sox...as long as we win the division..all good.:D:

thedudeabides
07-11-2009, 08:58 AM
Good post. The Twins are a solid fundamental team who play solid fundamental baseball no matter where they play.

Opposing teams have a disadvantage when playing at the DumpDume. This has the effect of conferring an "advantage" upon the Twins.

My sister married a Twins fan. He hates the dome, too.

My Dad has some family in Minnesota. They all hate that place.

Hitters and outfielders around the league say it's the toughest place to get use to, and it usually takes a game or two to get use to the background. So, you're probably right inferring some of it's mental, as it seems like they have a bad thought process going into that dump. You know it has to be for the Sox.

It'll be nice when we don't have to talk about this place anymore. Although, as Sox fans we'll find new complaints and excuses for their new stadium, when they lose, pretty fast. :D:

Lip Man 1
07-11-2009, 11:02 AM
JB:

Well you must admit they've had some very unusual road experiences this decade. Oakland of course earlier (ten straight losses), Toronto right now (ten straight losses) and Minnesota (ten of eleven losses).

That seems to defy the law of averages for what has been a good solid team on the field in seven of those nine years heading into this one.

There has to be some explanation.

Lip

ode to veeck
07-11-2009, 11:14 AM
JB:

Well you must admit they've had some very unusual road experiences this decade. Oakland of course earlier (ten straight losses),

Lip

That one finally ended when West and I stopped going to the games here together, LOL

Brian26
07-11-2009, 12:17 PM
There's a lot of whining about the Dome in this thread. Although there's no doubt that place sucks to no end, it really played no part in the game last night. That Carlos Gomez bunt would have been a base hit anywhere on the planet because it was beautifully executed with PK playing back and Jenks on the mound.

There have been many games in the past that the Sox lost up there due to wacky bounces, infield hits, outfield hi-jinx, etc, but this wasn't one of them.

whitesox_09
07-11-2009, 12:55 PM
You clearly either don't understand the fundamentals of baseball, haven't watched chris getz hit this year ( he NEVER swings for the fences), or are jayson nix.


No one is ripping on him, buddy.

All I'm saying is that his approach (post the first 3 weeks of the season) sucks.

He thinks he's a HR hitter when he's not.

The Sox did not lose because of Getz today, lets make that clear. But little things like this need to be pointed out about his development as a ML hitter.

Madscout
07-11-2009, 02:27 PM
After seeing that first inning, I would have said it would have looked a lot worse. But guess what, we held the Twins to 2 runs in 8 innings. We do that tonight and sunday, we get two wins.

ChiSoxGirl
07-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Amen to that. I'm not a violent person, but the Twins just bring the hatred out in me.....:angry::angry::angry::angry:

I get pissed just hearing their player's names. No other team does that to me.

Neither am I, but I get those same feelings of hatred inside every time I see or hear anything Twins-related. In an odd way, I think it's great we've got such a rivalry between us and the Twins; it makes the games much more interesting. I still hate 'em, though. :angry: