PDA

View Full Version : What to do with Clayton Richard


chisoxfanatic
07-09-2009, 07:54 PM
I seriously do not want to see Clayton Richard starting after the All Star break. He has proven many times that he's just not ready mechanically to start in the big leagues. I'd really like him to either get in some time working long relief in our bullpen or get some starts in Charlotte.

I wouldn't mind giving Poreda a start or two to see what he has until Kenny can figure out what to do with the 5th starter spot if Colon doesn't return.

JB98
07-09-2009, 07:58 PM
Regular season and playoffs, Richard has given up only one run in 9.2 innings against Tampa Bay in his career.

For me, he gets one more start against the Rays after the break. If he tanks against a team he has owned in the past, it's time to make a change.

spawn
07-09-2009, 08:02 PM
Maybe I'm overreacting a bit, but I view Richard as our version of Jeremy Sowers. By the third time through the lineup, he's been figured out. In cases like today, it's the first time. He doesn't consistently get his off speed pitches over the plate, so hitters, like today, just sit and wait for a fast ball. Until he does get command with his secondary pitches consistently, he shouldn't be in the starting rotation.

SOXfnNlansing
07-09-2009, 08:03 PM
I'd rather deal with Richard then the old days with Danny Wright. He seems to be the typical 5th starter; hot and cold.

chisoxfanatic
07-09-2009, 08:04 PM
Maybe I'm overreacting a bit, but I view Richard as our version of Jeremy Sowers. By the third time through thelineup, he's been figured out. In cases like today, it's the first time. He doesn't consistently get his off speed pitches over the plate, so hitters, like today, just sit and wait for a fast ball. Until he does get command with his secondary pitches consistently, he shouldn't be in the starting rotation.
Yea, it seems like he's been getting behind in the count way too many times to be a starting pitcher. And then the bullpen has to be used way too soon to make up for the high number of pitches he has thrown in very few innings.

LITTLE NELL
07-09-2009, 08:06 PM
Javier Vazquez would be looking pretty good right now as our 5th starter.

spawn
07-09-2009, 08:08 PM
Yea, it seems like he's been getting behind in the count way too many times to be a starting pitcher. And then the bullpen has to be used way too soon to make up for the high number of pitches he has thrown in very few innings.
Every pitcherhas badgames, and this was extraordinarily bad for Richard. However, aside from the game against the Indians last week, he hasn't pitched well. Today was just the icing on the cake. He needs to get his confidence back, and I think putting him in the bullpen would help him with that.

NDSox12
07-09-2009, 08:08 PM
Regular season and playoffs, Richard has given up only one run in 9.2 innings against Tampa Bay in his career.

For me, he gets one more start against the Rays after the break. If he tanks against a team he has owned in the past, it's time to make a change.

I agree. He'll probably get at least a couple more starts since we've got that DH against Detroit coming up in a few weeks too. If he bombs in either/both of those starts, I think he will be heading back to the bullpen or Charlotte.

Lip Man 1
07-09-2009, 08:10 PM
With the trade for Pena unless Kenny moves a relief pitcher (Dotel?) I don't know if there's room for him right now.

I think either he gets it together or he's Charlotte bound.

Lip

...
07-09-2009, 08:15 PM
With the trade for Pena unless Kenny moves a relief pitcher (Dotel?) I don't know if there's room for him right now.

I think either he gets it together or he's Charlotte bound.

Lip


Pena has taken Gobble's spot on the roster and in the bullpen.

thedudeabides
07-09-2009, 08:29 PM
I said this in the post-game thread, but I think he gets another start or two. They don't need a fifth starter for a while, so hopefully they can figure out his problems with the time off. Colon is going to need a little while to get back, so he'll have a chance to get it together. I hope the lesson was learned today that he should not be starting on three days rest.

Poreda is the option a lot of people want, but I'm not sure he's ready to start. I'll trust the judgement of the management team to decide that.

Edit: I also think he may be over throwing. He certainly seems to be throwing harder than he was when he was effective. His fastball seems to be losing some of it's movement and sink.

Noneck
07-09-2009, 08:30 PM
Javier Vazquez would be looking pretty good right now as our 5th starter.

He always would have looked good.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-09-2009, 09:08 PM
Javier Vazquez would be looking pretty good right now as our 5th starter.

Except in September and October when the Sox are in contention.

thomas35forever
07-09-2009, 09:08 PM
He always would have looked good.
If our current record was in inverse order, he'd be lights out. He refuses to grow a pair when it really counts.

KMcMahon817
07-09-2009, 09:09 PM
I seriously do not want to see Clayton Richard starting after the All Star break. He has proven many times that he's just not ready mechanically to start in the big leagues. I'd really like him to either get in some time working long relief in our bullpen or get some starts in Charlotte.

I wouldn't mind giving Poreda a start or two to see what he has until Kenny can figure out what to do with the 5th starter spot if Colon doesn't return.


Colon pitched tonight at Charlotte. He went 5 solid innings, giving up one run on 2 hits and 2 walks with a K, exiting with a 7-1 lead.

sox1970
07-09-2009, 09:13 PM
Just let Colon start after the break and see what happens. I've seen enough of Richard as a starter. He's no good, and Poreda was brought up to be in the bullpen. I don't see the Sox even giving him that opportunity this year--at least while they're in the race.

sullythered
07-09-2009, 09:13 PM
He always would have looked good.
No. No. No.

His stats always would have looked good. He is a choker.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-09-2009, 09:38 PM
I never did think Richard was ever really that good in a starting role, always liked him better out of the pen. I wouldn't mind seeing what Poreda has, but I bet Colon returns...

Noneck
07-09-2009, 09:42 PM
No. No. No.

His stats always would have looked good. He is a choker.
Maybe he chokes because his throat cant handle the tons of innings he swallows.

twinsuck
07-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Hire a hit man.

dakotasox
07-09-2009, 09:59 PM
Colon made it to Charlotte tonight :bandance:

5IP, 2 hits, 1 run....call him up, send Richard or Poreda down, the other to the pen.

soxfan43
07-09-2009, 10:01 PM
Colon made it to Charlotte tonight :bandance:

5IP, 2 hits, 1 run....call him up, send Richard or Poreda down, the other to the pen.


I'd like to see him make another start first.

Zisk77
07-09-2009, 10:03 PM
My take on Richard:

The good: his plus fastball is consistently getting faster as he matures.
The quality of his secondary pitches (slider/change-up) are good.

The bad: the command of his secondary pitches (slider/change-up) need improvement.

If this were 2007 or we continued to play like we did prior to IL games, then i would keep running him out there. Now I hope for a trade for a 5th starter and if Clayton isn't involved in the trade, than he could be a very valuable menber of our pen.

Also developing a split/forkball may help especially against right handers. His arm slot pretty much makes it difficult to have a quality curve.


So what pitchers may be available?

Halladay - prolly too pricey
Aaron Harang
Jarrod Wasburn
Gil Meche
Jon Garland (not exactly having a good year)

Who else?

dakotasox
07-09-2009, 10:08 PM
I'd like to see him make another start first.

He went 5 innings on 65 pitches albeit in AAA. That's better than Richard has done in 6 weeks.

Jim Shorts
07-09-2009, 10:20 PM
Colon made it to Charlotte tonight :bandance:

5IP, 2 hits, 1 run....call him up, send Richard or Poreda down, the other to the pen.

His last three starts he threw nothing but batting practice pitches. After tonight he threw MLB BP to the triple A team.

Yeah, let's give him reigns.

dakotasox
07-09-2009, 10:29 PM
His last three starts he threw nothing but batting practice pitches. After tonight he threw MLB BP to the triple A team.

Yeah, let's give him reigns.

Clayton Richard hasn't had a quality start since May. I am convinced we can win the whole thing this year, but he need a 5th starter who eats innings and gives us a shot to win. Richard does neither. It doesn't have to be Colon, but its not Richard.

soxfan43
07-09-2009, 10:31 PM
He went 5 innings on 65 pitches albeit in AAA. That's better than Richard has done in 6 weeks.


It's also AAA and who knows how he looked out there. The guy's a fat mess. I'd like him to get another start to see how his arm responds.

LoveYourSuit
07-09-2009, 10:57 PM
Colon was giving you a good start every other one while he was here.

Richard is giving you nothing for 7 straight starts.

Give me Colon.

veeter
07-09-2009, 10:59 PM
He went 5 innings on 65 pitches albeit in AAA. That's better than Richard has done in 6 weeks.Did he throw anything other than two seam fastballs?

sullythered
07-09-2009, 11:00 PM
Maybe he chokes because his throat cant handle the tons of innings he swallows.
But he's paid like a 2 or 3. He is not a big time performer. There's a reason that a guy with his ability has been on so many teams. Plus he brought the best prospect currently in the Sox minor league system in return.

Javy was a big tease. All the ability in the world, but he needed to go see the wizard.

Jim Shorts
07-09-2009, 11:05 PM
Colon was giving you a good start every other one while he was here.

Richard is giving you nothing for 7 straight starts.

Give me Colon.

Colon threw maybe four off speed pitches during that time. Take him if you want him, but if he's throwing straight BP, then I want him no where near Chicago.

A. Cavatica
07-09-2009, 11:08 PM
Richard should be in long relief, but Colon is probably not the answer either. Kenny had the right idea when he went after Peavy. Get a real #1, and the entire pitching staff benefits.

chisoxfanatic
07-09-2009, 11:09 PM
Richard should be in long relief, but Colon is probably not the answer either. Kenny had the right idea when he went after Peavy. Get a real #1, and the entire pitching staff benefits.
We have a real #1. His name is Mark Buehrle.

A. Cavatica
07-09-2009, 11:50 PM
We have a real #1. His name is Mark Buehrle.

As much as I love Buehrle, he's not one of the top twenty starters in baseball.

Tragg
07-09-2009, 11:52 PM
We're 2nd in the league in ERA.
We have far more serious needs defensively and offensively.

dakotasox
07-09-2009, 11:53 PM
As much as I love Buehrle, he's not one of the top twenty starters in baseball.

Top 20? Yes he is and it isn't close. Top 10 is a long shot though.

WhiteSox1989
07-09-2009, 11:58 PM
What I want to happen is Richard goes in for long relief, and KW trades for another starting pitcher.


I'd like a legit center fielder too. please and thank you.

A. Cavatica
07-10-2009, 12:57 AM
Top 20? Yes he is and it isn't close. Top 10 is a long shot though.

Argument for top 20: Buehrle is tied (with 6 others) for 8th in wins. He's 11th in WHIP, 18th in ERA, 21st in IP.

Argument against: Wins can be misleading. He's tied for 23rd (with 16 others) in quality starts, which is his forte. He's allowed a very mediocre .698 OPS. And of course, he's nowhere near the top 20 in strikeouts or K/BB ratio.

Here are ten starters clearly better than Buehrle: Beckett, Billingsley, Cain, Halladay, Hamels, Haren, Hernandez, Lincecum, Peavy, Santana. This season you'd have to put Greinke, Josh Johnson, and Jered Weaver there too. Buehrle is in with a big group of pitchers (Sabathia, Verlander, Millwood, Wainwright, Shields, Carpenter, Zambrano, Volquez, etc., etc.) who at times pitch like #1s and at times are nothing special.

So maybe he squeaks into the top 20, but maybe there are only 10-12 legit #1 starters in baseball?

tacosalbarojas
07-10-2009, 12:59 AM
Javier Vazquez would be looking pretty good right now as our 5th starter.Not for his price tag he wouldn't.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 01:08 AM
Argument for top 20: Buehrle is tied (with 6 others) for 8th in wins. He's 11th in WHIP, 18th in ERA, 21st in IP.

Argument against: Wins can be misleading. He's tied for 23rd (with 16 others) in quality starts, which is his forte. He's allowed a very mediocre .698 OPS. And of course, he's nowhere near the top 20 in strikeouts or K/BB ratio.

Here are ten starters clearly better than Buehrle: Beckett, Billingsley, Cain, Halladay, Hamels, Haren, Hernandez, Lincecum, Peavy, Santana. This season you'd have to put Greinke, Josh Johnson, and Jered Weaver there too. Buehrle is in with a big group of pitchers (Sabathia, Verlander, Millwood, Wainwright, Shields, Carpenter, Zambrano, Volquez, etc., etc.) who at times pitch like #1s and at times are nothing special.

So maybe he squeaks into the top 20, but maybe there are only 10-12 legit #1 starters in baseball?
You really have to differentiate between the two leagues. Yea, guys like Billingsley, Lincecum, and Peavy are great; but, they're in the inferior NL. Had Buehrle pitched in the easier league, I really am convinced that his stats would look even better than they currently do. Top pitchers in the AL have to face much better lineups. I would definitely put Buehrle in the top 10 in baseball.

cws05champ
07-10-2009, 09:39 AM
You really have to differentiate between the two leagues. Yea, guys like Billingsley, Lincecum, and Peavy are great; but, they're in the inferior NL. Had Buehrle pitched in the easier league, I really am convinced that his stats would look even better than they currently do. Top pitchers in the AL have to face much better lineups. I would definitely put Buehrle in the top 10 in baseball.
No doubt. How would Buehrle's numbers look pitching at AT&T park in SF in the NL? Probably closer to 2.85 - 2.90 wouldn't you think?

PhillipsBubba
07-10-2009, 09:41 AM
I seriously do not want to see Clayton Richard starting after the All Star break...I wouldn't mind giving Poreda a start or two....

I concur...flip flop their roles.

I have little confidence in Colon. Either give Poreda a shot...activate Freddy Gracia or make a trade.

MISoxfan
07-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Argument for top 20: Buehrle is tied (with 6 others) for 8th in wins. He's 11th in WHIP, 18th in ERA, 21st in IP.

Argument against: Wins can be misleading. He's tied for 23rd (with 16 others) in quality starts, which is his forte. He's allowed a very mediocre .698 OPS. And of course, he's nowhere near the top 20 in strikeouts or K/BB ratio.

Here are ten starters clearly better than Buehrle: Beckett, Billingsley, Cain, Halladay, Hamels, Haren, Hernandez, Lincecum, Peavy, Santana. This season you'd have to put Greinke, Josh Johnson, and Jered Weaver there too. Buehrle is in with a big group of pitchers (Sabathia, Verlander, Millwood, Wainwright, Shields, Carpenter, Zambrano, Volquez, etc., etc.) who at times pitch like #1s and at times are nothing special.

So maybe he squeaks into the top 20, but maybe there are only 10-12 legit #1 starters in baseball?

And what determines this mythical number 1 starter status exactly?

Cole Hamels has a 3.61 career ERA to Buehrle's 3.76, his ERA+ is 1 point higher, and Mark's outperforming him by a wide margin this year.

Billingsley has got Buehrle with a 3.29 ERA and by 8 ERA+, but the man has only started for one complete season.

Josh Beckett has an equal ERA, a lower ERA+, and has only pitched 200+ innings twice. Its lunacy to say he's clearly better than Buehrle.

Haren has a slightly lower ERA, but pitches in the NL. An equal ERA+, but out of his 3 seasons in the AL he didn't pitch any better than we would expect Buehrle too

King Felix? lower career ERA+

I'm not going to do this for every pitcher on this list, but there are only 2 or 3 on that list that are clearly better than Mark.

thedudeabides
07-10-2009, 10:11 AM
And what determines this mythical number 1 starter status exactly?

Cole Hamels has a 3.61 career ERA to Buehrle's 3.76, his ERA+ is 1 point higher, and Mark's outperforming him by a wide margin this year.

Billingsley has got Buehrle with a 3.29 ERA and by 8 ERA+, but the man has only started for one complete season.

Josh Beckett has an equal ERA, a lower ERA+, and has only pitched 200+ innings twice. Its lunacy to say he's clearly better than Buehrle.

Haren has a slightly lower ERA, but pitches in the NL. An equal ERA+, but out of his 3 seasons in the AL he didn't pitch any better than we would expect Buehrle too

King Felix? lower career ERA+

I'm not going to do this for every pitcher on this list, but there are only 2 or 3 on that list that are clearly better than Mark.

This argument has seemingly been going on forever. I don't know what Buerhle would have to do to be considered a "true" no. 1 starter in some people's eyes. :dunno:

4 time all-star - Check
Started all-star game - Check
Led the league in innings - Check
Led the league in complete games - Check
49 consecutive starts of 6+ innings - Check
No hitter - Check
Complete game victory in the playoffs - Check
Save in a world series game - Check
8 straight seasons of 200+ innings - Check
Average more than 15 wins a season - Check
Opening day starter - Check
Team stopper - Check
Banned from tarp sliding - Check

I guess for some: hard throwing big strikeout guy=true no. 1. That's all.

We had one of those for the last three years, and I wasn't sorry to see him go.

asindc
07-10-2009, 10:16 AM
Javier Vazquez would be looking pretty good right now as our 5th starter.

No dispute with that.

Now, do we want to pay a 5th starter $11 million a year, that is a different question.


About Richard: Long relief, but I've been saying that all along. When (if?) Fat Bartolo re-joins the MLB roster, he should be the 5th starter.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 10:20 AM
No dispute with that.

Now, do we want to pay a 5th starter $11 million a year, that is a different question.

And if we did, who would we not have on the roster to cut that 11mm in cost?

jabrch
07-10-2009, 10:30 AM
The term "#1 starter" is used with different meaning. To me, a #1 guy is someone you will put in your rotation and feel that, no matter who the opponent is, you have a chance of winning. Mark fits that description. Is he going to win every game? Of course not - but he certainly gives you a better than average chance. In my opinion, he's definitely top 30, which would make him the #1 or #2 starter on virtually every team. He isn't in that absolutely top tier of 5-7 guys, but he's right there in the team photo on the second tier.

He's got a sub 3.20 ERA in a hitters park in the AL. Spin that however you like, but it sounds damn solid to me. I'm glad we have him! Ace? #1? Stopper? Those are all terms of art, not terms of science. I don't know how to apply them in this case. I will say that I like our chances when we go to war with any of our top 4 starters right now. If Colon comes back good, or we are able to go out and get another #1 or #2 guy, then we are in a REALLY good spot!

khan
07-10-2009, 12:34 PM
We're 2nd in the league in ERA.
We have far more serious needs defensively and offensively.

While these are both true, I don't think that this team has the wherewithal [in terms of tradeable pieces or budget] to bring in the needed offensive pieces for THIS year. To me, this means that this year's team HAS TO continue to get good pitching to have any hope of competing.

So to the original poster's query: What to do with Richard/the 5th starter's spot?

First, let me say that I don't think that Richard is much more than a 4th/5th starter in terms of his ability. That OG started him on 3 days' rest didn't seem to help him yesterday. In any case, he hasn't been doing a 5th starters' job, in terms of innings eaten and regularly keeping the SOX in the game. In sum, I think Richard should head back to Charlotte, and work on his shortcomings for the time being.

So what are the options for the 5th starter?

Poreda, for all of his potential, still seems to be a work in progress. I think those clamoring for him are the same people who want the backup QB to start. [As in, "We haven't seen much of him, so he MUST be good!"]

To me, that leaves Colon as the only option for a 5th starter for the remainder of the season. For all the fat jokes and for all the uneven performances, he's still a proven vet, AND with a 4.23 ERA hereto fore. He's gone 5 or more IP in 8 of his 11 starts. After all, isn't that what a 5th starter should do?

KMcMahon817
07-10-2009, 01:26 PM
This argument has seemingly been going on forever. I don't know what Buerhle would have to do to be considered a "true" no. 1 starter in some people's eyes. :dunno:

4 time all-star - Check
Started all-star game - Check
Led the league in innings - Check
Led the league in complete games - Check
49 consecutive starts of 6+ innings - Check
No hitter - Check
Complete game victory in the playoffs - Check
Save in a world series game - Check
8 straight seasons of 200+ innings - Check
Average more than 15 wins a season - Check
Opening day starter - Check
Team stopper - Check
Banned from tarp sliding - Check

I guess for some: hard throwing big strikeout guy=true no. 1. That's all.

We had one of those for the last three years, and I wasn't sorry to see him go.

This post reminded me how much I love MB.

LITTLE NELL
07-10-2009, 01:46 PM
Not for his price tag he wouldn't.
If he helped us win the division and more what do any of us care what he makes, we don't pay the bills, JR does.

jdm2662
07-10-2009, 01:47 PM
And what determines this mythical number 1 starter status exactly?

Cole Hamels has a 3.61 career ERA to Buehrle's 3.76, his ERA+ is 1 point higher, and Mark's outperforming him by a wide margin this year.

Billingsley has got Buehrle with a 3.29 ERA and by 8 ERA+, but the man has only started for one complete season.

Josh Beckett has an equal ERA, a lower ERA+, and has only pitched 200+ innings twice. Its lunacy to say he's clearly better than Buehrle.

Haren has a slightly lower ERA, but pitches in the NL. An equal ERA+, but out of his 3 seasons in the AL he didn't pitch any better than we would expect Buehrle too

King Felix? lower career ERA+

I'm not going to do this for every pitcher on this list, but there are only 2 or 3 on that list that are clearly better than Mark.

There was a stat shown on Fox during the Cubs-Sox game. They compared Mark's career stats with CC's. And, they were very close in every significant category. So, how is CC a true 1 and Mark is not? I don't get it.

asindc
07-10-2009, 01:57 PM
If he helped us win the division and more what do any of us care what he makes, we don't pay the bills, JR does.

We help pay the bills through ticket prices, parking fees, concessions, merchandise, watching/listening to ads on TV/radio, etc. And even if we didn't, any decision the team makes regarding whom to sign, trade, trade for, DFA, not sign, release outright, etc., must be evaluated considering the costs involved. Otherwise, it leads to incomplete analysis of the transaction.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 02:09 PM
If he helped us win the division and more what do any of us care what he makes, we don't pay the bills, JR does.

Because assuming the payroll is not limitless, we should care about how the team utilizes resources. Spending $X on player 1 means we don't have it to spend on player 2. I don't begrudge the players for making what they do - but I would be unhappy if my team always paid guys more than the market would indicate their value is. KW very rarely has a really bad contract where a player is not justifying what he makes in some way. On the other hand, big spenders like Hendry and Ricciardi have some long term, awful, big $ contracts that constrain them from doing other things. The Jays just ate 15mm on BJ Ryan, and are in a bad position with Wells/Rios' contracts. This is contributing to the need to move Halladay either now or later - they will likely have no chance to resign him. Hendry is tied to a lot of very expensive deals (Soriano, Dempster, Fukudome [we got lucky to have dodged the bullet on that one] and Bradley) on guys who are underperforming their price tag.

Sure - sometimes the big one gets away. It happens more than we'd like. But isn't that better than some of the alternatives?

jabrch
07-10-2009, 02:10 PM
There was a stat shown on Fox during the Cubs-Sox game. They compared Mark's career stats with CC's. And, they were very close in every significant category. So, how is CC a true 1 and Mark is not? I don't get it.


Weight.



Seriously - this is all in how you define "true #1".

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 02:19 PM
I wish we had Jon Garland. He eats innings and he gives you a chance to win.

russ99
07-10-2009, 03:04 PM
With all the clamor due to Kenny's comments, I guess this was the missing subtext: We don't need a #1 starter. It would be nice, and position the Sox as Series contenders the next few years, but isn't essential to win the division or have a nice playoff run this season.

What the Sox need is a solid #3 guy who can eat 200+ innings, with frequent quality starts, battle hitters, strike out guys and give them a chance to win. Then Floyd becomes one of the best #4's in the league and Contreras slides down to #5 - with Richard and Poreda covering if he gets hurt.

But some could say the Sox had that in Javy Vazquez and let him go...

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 03:07 PM
49 consecutive starts of 6+ innings - Check
And we'll never know how long that streak could've been had he not "taken one for the team" and got ejected for throwing at a batter. If there's anyone who puts the team first the most, it's Buehrle.

the gooch
07-10-2009, 03:29 PM
Banned from tarp sliding - CheckTrue #1 Starters don't get banned from tarp sliding.

There was a stat shown on Fox during the Cubs-Sox game. They compared Mark's career stats with CC's. And, they were very close in every significant category. So, how is CC a true 1 and Mark is not? I don't get it.For CC, sliders come from White Castle, and he definitely isn't banned from that place.

Zisk77
07-10-2009, 03:31 PM
With all the clamor due to Kenny's comments, I guess this was the missing subtext: We don't need a #1 starter. It would be nice, and position the Sox as Series contenders the next few years, but isn't essential to win the division or have a nice playoff run this season.

What the Sox need is a solid #3 guy who can eat 200+ innings, with frequent quality starts, battle hitters, strike out guys and give them a chance to win. Then Floyd becomes one of the best #4's in the league and Contreras slides down to #5 - with Richard and Poreda covering if he gets hurt.

But some could say the Sox had that in Javy Vazquez and let him go...


We didn't let him go. We got Tyler Flowers, a 3b pospect, & Lilibridge.

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 03:36 PM
We didn't let him go. We got Tyler Flowers, a 3b pospect, & Lilibridge.

Anyway we can send him back? PTBNL and we send back a guy they gave us...

For real though, Javy gets paid way to much to be a 4th or 5th starter. I'm glad we dumped that spineless coward.

Soxfanspcu11
07-10-2009, 03:44 PM
Except in September and October when the Sox are in contention.

My thoughts exactly.

Lights 'um up April-Mid September and then when its time for the playoff push, he crumbles.

And then when the actual playoffs do start, he is even worse. It's incredible because he has such good stuff and is such a good pitcher for most of the season. I have no idea what goes on inside his brain when the games become very meaningful. :scratch:

LITTLE NELL
07-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Numbering the starters when you think about (except for the post season) is a bunch of baloney. I want 5 guys who are capable of winning 15+ games and giving me 200 innings. MB may be our #1 guy but the way Floyd, Danks and Jose are pitching right now(pretty good) how would you rank them 2-3-4?

Tragg
07-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Has Poreda developed a change, a slow curve, something offspeed yet?

Whitesoxfan23
07-10-2009, 06:53 PM
My thoughts exactly.

Lights 'um up April-Mid September and then when its time for the playoff push, he crumbles.

And then when the actual playoffs do start, he is even worse. It's incredible because he has such good stuff and is such a good pitcher for most of the season. I have no idea what goes on inside his brain when the games become very meaningful. :scratch:


At least he would be helping us now. Richard is a godawful starter. I never want to see this clown start another game for our Sox.

Jim Shorts
07-10-2009, 06:53 PM
Has Poreda developed a change, a slow curve, something offspeed yet?

I think it was his slider that started to look pretty good yesterday

dakotasox
07-10-2009, 07:05 PM
I think it was his slider that started to look pretty good yesterday

The only sliders he threw were get-me-overs. They tricked hitters looking dead red.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 07:06 PM
At least he would be helping us now. Richard is a godawful starter. I never want to see this clown start another game for our Sox.

Never is an awful long time. I can name tons of pitchers who were worse than Clayton in his first 120 IP that went on to have very nice careers as SP.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Ozzie says Richard stays in the rotation because the Sox don't have a choice, but according to a scout who saw him last night and spoke with Mark Gonzales, Colon looked great last night even better then when he pitched against Baltimore in April. The scout saw both games.

Jack McDowell on his blog says Richard will get yanked in favor of either Colon or Poreda.

Lip

russ99
07-11-2009, 09:38 AM
Ozzie says Richard stays in the rotation because the Sox don't have a choice, but according to a scout who saw him last night and spoke with Mark Gonzales, Colon looked great last night even better then when he pitched against Baltimore in April. The scout saw both games.

Jack McDowell on his blog says Richard will get yanked in favor of either Colon or Poreda.

Lip

Ozzie was quoted that he'll give Richard one more game after the break. If he looks bad, they'll look at other options.

Lip Man 1
07-11-2009, 12:14 PM
Russ:

Ozzie also said directly "yeah, so far, we don't have any choice."

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1661714,CST-SPT-soxnt11.article

Not exactly a ringing endorsement (nor should Richard get one.)

Lip

JB98
07-11-2009, 03:04 PM
It sounds like Ozzie is now planning to throw Richard against Tampa Bay on 7/21, as opposed to the original plan of pitching him on 7/19 against Baltimore.

If that's the case, I like the move. Richard has only given up one run in 9.2 innings lifetime against the Rays. Tampa Bay has a history of struggles against left-handed starters.

The All-Star break should allow the Sox to set their rotation, stacking the three lefties against Tampa Bay and making sure Floyd, Contreras and Colon all throw against Detroit. I certainly prefer right-handed pitchers against the Tigers' lineup.

UChicagoHP
07-11-2009, 03:05 PM
Send him to the BP where he belongs...I just don't think he has what it takes to start at this level.

LoveYourSuit
07-18-2009, 10:18 PM
Ozzie puts Richard on notice:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-19-white-sox-brite-chicago-jul19,0,2976928.story


Well it's about time. 7.91 ERA in his last 8 starts.:o:

You think?

TDog
07-18-2009, 10:36 PM
Numbering the starters when you think about (except for the post season) is a bunch of baloney. I want 5 guys who are capable of winning 15+ games and giving me 200 innings. MB may be our #1 guy but the way Floyd, Danks and Jose are pitching right now(pretty good) how would you rank them 2-3-4?

Whenever I hear someone numbering starters (especially saying so-and-so is a number-whatever starter) I usually start laughing so hard that I miss the rest of what they have to say. I don't care that I miss the rest of what they have to say, though, if they are numbering starters.

Tragg
07-18-2009, 10:43 PM
Ozzie puts Richard on notice:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-19-white-sox-brite-chicago-jul19,0,2976928.story


Well it's about time. 7.91 ERA in his last 8 starts.:o:

You think?

Guillen puts some non-performers on notice; others he apologizes for. Not much consistency.