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View Full Version : Things I've learned from WSI over the years: emotional over reactions.


Zisk77
07-09-2009, 12:22 PM
- Paul Konerko is done...ditto for Contreras & Pods.
- Chris Getz is not a major league player
- Bobby Jenks is like the 25th best closer in baseball...definately not better than David Weathers.
- Its a fallacy that runners steal on the pitcher and not on the catcher...AJ is terrible defensively.
- Players (especially young ones) can not really get better much better at hitting or fielding ergo trade alexei now.
- Kenny should do something for this team but every good player suggested in trade rumors is declining rapidly and shoul be avoided.
- All our prospects suck...but don't trade them unless we are getting Halladay, Crawford, or Peavy in return.
- the only good pitchers in our bullpen is Jenks, Thornton, and Carrasco (but last year Carrasco wasn't a major leage pitcher).all we got is some guy named Quinten.
- The Cabrera/Willis trade won the 2008 world series for the tigers no point in playing the season.
-Beurhle wants to be traded to St.Louis, accomadate the traitor.
- We should acquire Jose Silva :scratch:


Feel free to add your own! :redneck

LITTLE NELL
07-09-2009, 12:28 PM
- Paul Konerko is done...ditto for Contreras & Pods.
- Chris Getz is not a major league player
- Bobby Jenks is like the 25th best closer in baseball...definately not better than David Weathers.
- Its a fallacy that runners steal on the pitcher and not on the catcher...AJ is terrible defensively.
- Players (especially young ones) can not really get better much better at hitting or fielding ergo trade alexei now.
- Kenny should do something for this team but every good player suggested in trade rumors is declining rapidly and shoul be avoided.
- All our prospects suck...but don't trade them unless we are getting Halladay, Crawford, or Peavy in return.
- the only good pitchers in our bullpen is Jenks, Thornton, and Carrasco (but last year Carrasco wasn't a major leage pitcher).all we got is some guy named Quinten.
- The Cabrera/Willis trade won the 2008 world series for the tigers no point in playing the season.
-Beurhle wants to be traded to St.Louis, accomadate the traitor.
- We should acquire Jose Silva :scratch:


Feel free to add your own! :redneck
Uribe is fat and lazy. (except for the 2nd half of last year and 2005)

LoveYourSuit
07-09-2009, 12:29 PM
- Paul Konerko is done...ditto for Contreras & Pods.
- Chris Getz is not a major league player
- Bobby Jenks is like the 25th best closer in baseball...definately not better than David Weathers.
- Its a fallacy that runners steal on the pitcher and not on the catcher...AJ is terrible defensively.
- Players (especially young ones) can not really get better much better at hitting or fielding ergo trade alexei now.
- Kenny should do something for this team but every good player suggested in trade rumors is declining rapidly and shoul be avoided.
- All our prospects suck...but don't trade them unless we are getting Halladay, Crawford, or Peavy in return.
- the only good pitchers in our bullpen is Jenks, Thornton, and Carrasco (but last year Carrasco wasn't a major leage pitcher).all we got is some guy named Quinten.
- The Cabrera/Willis trade won the 2008 world series for the tigers no point in playing the season.
-Beurhle wants to be traded to St.Louis, accomadate the traitor.
- We should acquire Jose Silva :scratch:


Feel free to add your own! :redneck

I still think this one is up for debate.

Chez
07-09-2009, 12:54 PM
After every loss, Greg Walker should be fired.

Cuck the Fubs
07-09-2009, 12:55 PM
Ozzie hates Brian Anderson :rolleyes:

goon
07-09-2009, 12:57 PM
I still think this one is up for debate.

"Feel free to add your own!"

thedudeabides
07-09-2009, 01:08 PM
-Linebrink needs to be cut immediately.
-Anderson just needs regular at bats.
-DLS is going to the hall of fame.
-Every media outlet is conspiring against us

Dibbs
07-09-2009, 01:10 PM
Many of those are still up for debate imo.

kittle42
07-09-2009, 01:13 PM
Many of those are still up for debate imo.

Agreed, several are as they relate to the 2009 team.

Digging back over the years, though, there have been some great ones.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-09-2009, 01:15 PM
Any prospects we trade away will have Hall Of Fame careers for their new team.

Bartolo Colon is fat and therefore we should make non-stop fat jokes about him.

asindc
07-09-2009, 01:23 PM
Despite Baseball Prospectus' consistent failure to reasonably predict the Sox' performance year after year, the writers at BP know more about the Sox than WSI members.

veeter
07-09-2009, 01:26 PM
I still think this one is up for debate.Yes, rookies deserve no time to develop. If they aren't hitting .320 after 150 major league at-bats, they suck.

kittle42
07-09-2009, 01:32 PM
Yes, rookies deserve no time to develop. If they aren't hitting .320 after 150 major league at-bats, they suck.

We all know they all need 1,000 at-bats! :D:

bigdommer
07-09-2009, 01:38 PM
-JR hates the fans.
-Bringing up Beckham was a mistake.
-Signing Colon was bad business.*

*For Chicago area restaurants.

LoveYourSuit
07-09-2009, 01:53 PM
Yes, rookies deserve no time to develop. If they aren't hitting .320 after 150 major league at-bats, they suck.


Rookies should develop in the minor leagues. The American League is not a developmental league, especially for a team that can compete for a division title.

LoveYourSuit
07-09-2009, 01:54 PM
"Feel free to add your own!"

OK, I will add this one:

Derrick Rose will be a bust of epic proportions.

Not Sox related, but that one takes the cake for me.

cbone
07-09-2009, 01:56 PM
OK, I will add this one:

Derrick Rose will be a bust of epic proportions.

Not Sox related, but that one takes the cake for me.

Classic thread.

infohawk
07-09-2009, 02:00 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf is a cheap owner.

jdm2662
07-09-2009, 02:02 PM
Trading future all-stars Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo for Freddy Garcia is the dumbest idea ever.

infohawk
07-09-2009, 02:04 PM
Not that it's a common refrain like many of these posts, but do any of you guys remember the so-called removal of KW? A few years ago, maybe during the 2002 or 2003 season, somebody claimed to have "insider knowledge" that that Sox were forcing KW out. According to the "source," KW would "resign," to deal with family issues, but he was really being fired. This WSI rumor floated shortly after KW's son got into some trouble back in Arizona or something.

I just wondered if any of you remembered that. It was quite the discussion at the time!

TommyJohn
07-09-2009, 02:07 PM
Not that it's a common refrain like many of these posts, but do any of you guys remember the so-called removal of KW? A few years ago, maybe during the 2002 or 2003 season, somebody claimed to have "insider knowledge" that that Sox were forcing KW out. According to the "source," KW would "resign," to deal with family issues, but he was really being fired. This WSI rumor floated shortly after KW's son got into some trouble back in Arizona or something.

I just wondered if any of you remembered that. It was quite the discussion at the time!
I do! One person "guaranteed" on another site that KW was out,

thedudeabides
07-09-2009, 02:14 PM
Kenny likes to talk trades on his cellphone, in the airport.

salty99
07-09-2009, 02:48 PM
1. No politics means no politics!

2. No Drinking teams

thomas35forever
07-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Aaron Rowand and Brian Anderson are so revered they should make up two-thirds of the Sign of the Cross.

white sox bill
07-09-2009, 02:54 PM
September 21 2005:

:darkcloud:

Marqhead
07-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Trading future all-stars Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo for Freddy Garcia is the dumbest idea ever.

I wasn't around this board when the deal went down, was this the sentiment of a large number of fans on this board?

jabrch
07-09-2009, 02:58 PM
I wasn't around this board when the deal went down, was this the sentiment of a large number of fans on this board?


The obnoxious vocal minority was all over how terrible it was that we traded Jeremy Reed. Same as when we traded Chris Young.

31335
07-09-2009, 03:09 PM
-Linebrink needs to be cut immediately.
-Anderson just needs regular at bats.
-DLS is going to the hall of fame.
-Every media outlet is conspiring against us



Who is DLS I am assuming it is a prospect we traded away, but I cant think of who it could be.

MisterB
07-09-2009, 03:11 PM
Who is DLS I am assuming it is a prospect we traded away, but I cant think of who it could be.

Fautino De los Santos, who got sent to the A's in the Swisher deal.

Marqhead
07-09-2009, 03:14 PM
The obnoxious vocal minority was all over how terrible it was that we traded Jeremy Reed. Same as when we traded Chris Young.

Gotcha. As a young(er) lad, I was out of town in DC when I saw the headline scroll over the ESPNZone Ticker. I was thrilled.

Boondock Saint
07-09-2009, 03:50 PM
:threadrules:

- KW should make this trade I just made on my PS2 game

Noneck
07-09-2009, 04:08 PM
Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher were not salary dumps.

LoveYourSuit
07-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Brandon Allen is untouchable.

thedudeabides
07-09-2009, 04:23 PM
Calling Gordon Beckham "Bacon" really pisses off a few people here.

jdm2662
07-09-2009, 04:27 PM
I wasn't around this board when the deal went down, was this the sentiment of a large number of fans on this board?

Do a search for it. It's one of the most classic threads of all time. I don't know if I posted it or not, but I was thrilled of the trade.

tacosalbarojas
07-09-2009, 04:35 PM
Don't say B-Mac.

TheVulture
07-09-2009, 04:39 PM
Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher were not salary dumps.

What I learned: Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher were salary dumps.

Boondock Saint
07-09-2009, 04:42 PM
Don't say Fingernails on a blackboard.

Nice to see it still works.

Noneck
07-09-2009, 04:49 PM
What I learned: Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher were salary dumps.
Yea I agree, but at the time many here did not agree. And who knows maybe they still dont.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-09-2009, 04:54 PM
What I learned: Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher were salary dumps.

Heck yea, they were salary dumps. The Swisher one was okay, but the Vazquez one...I'm still upset about.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

downstairs
07-09-2009, 04:54 PM
Aaron Rowand will be the next number retired by the White Sox.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-09-2009, 04:55 PM
Gordon Beckham was rushed.

Rohan
07-09-2009, 05:27 PM
Gordon Beckham was rushed.

Not really an emotional overreaction...

FIRE OZZIE!

bigdommer
07-09-2009, 06:10 PM
The White Sox should win every game. If they do not, it is the fault of Clayton Richard, Dewayne Wise, Octavio Dotel, Chris Getz, or Brian Anderson. If none of those players are in the game, it's the fault of Ozzie Guillen. If Ozzie is serving a suspension, it's Kenny's fault. If Kenny is at the airport on a cell phone, it's JR's fault. If JR cannot be found, #1 Sox fan is to blame: Obama.

Brian26
07-09-2009, 08:13 PM
Not that it's a common refrain like many of these posts, but do any of you guys remember the so-called removal of KW? A few years ago, maybe during the 2002 or 2003 season, somebody claimed to have "insider knowledge" that that Sox were forcing KW out. According to the "source," KW would "resign," to deal with family issues, but he was really being fired. This WSI rumor floated shortly after KW's son got into some trouble back in Arizona or something.

I just wondered if any of you remembered that. It was quite the discussion at the time!

I do! One person "guaranteed" on another site that KW was out,

That incident happened around May of 2003. The poster that originally broke the story actually had some credibility, as she had broken news of the Keith Foulke-Billy Koch trade hours before it happened earlier in the year.

She was actually predicting a press conference in the afternoon for KW's resignation, which of course never happened. She cited reasons related to tension between KW and Jerry Manuel, including KW calling down to the dugout during games from his cell phone. She said Einhorn told KW to back off JM, and it became a "him" or "me" scenario.

To this day, I'm not sure if it was 100% fabrication.

spawn
07-09-2009, 08:14 PM
Brian Anderson being in the starting lineup is a guaranteed Sox winner.

tstrike2000
07-09-2009, 08:29 PM
Getting rid of Kip Wells and Josh Fogg was the biggest mistake!

chisoxfanatic
07-09-2009, 08:36 PM
Aaron Rowand's return would immediately take us to the World Series.

Zisk77
07-09-2009, 09:32 PM
Fautino De los Santos, who got sent to the A's in the Swisher deal.


And almost immediately blew out his elbow requiring Tommy John Surgery.

veeter
07-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Rookies should develop in the minor leagues. The American League is not a developmental league, especially for a team that can compete for a division title.Even the best players have to adjust to the major leagues. Getz is a major leaguer.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-09-2009, 11:38 PM
Trading Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd was a huge mistake.:rolleyes:

ramblinsoxfan11
07-10-2009, 12:14 AM
churros make everything better :redneck

Rohan
07-10-2009, 12:27 AM
churros make everything better :redneck

This is an emotional reaction :) and it's accurate as can be!

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 01:29 AM
Here's one I'll NEVER forget...

**** YOU WINTER!!!!

In reference to some of the things we as Chicagoans must endure during the winter months.

Jerome
07-10-2009, 02:12 AM
Trading Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd was a huge mistake.:rolleyes:

this was a good one

TornLabrum
07-10-2009, 08:02 AM
No one can start a thread about Wise or Anderson without it devolving into roadhouse material.

Tragg
07-10-2009, 09:54 AM
When top prospects don't develop into good major league players, that proves that they had no value when they were traded and that the utility infielder or ceiling middle reliever received was a great return.

asindc
07-10-2009, 10:13 AM
Despite several trades indisputably working out in KW's favor, such as...

Reed for Garcia
Loiaza for Contreras
Lee for Pods
Garcia for Floyd and Gonzalez
McCarthy for Danks
Borchard for Thornton
Carter for Quentin

he still doesn't know what he is doing.

Cuck the Fubs
07-10-2009, 10:16 AM
Here's one I'll NEVER forget...

**** YOU WINTER!!!!

In reference to some of the things we as Chicagoans must endure during the winter months.

:gulp:Thank you very much :gulp:

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 10:30 AM
Some Sox fans truly would rather see the Cubs lose than the Sox win.

Bobby Thigpen
07-10-2009, 10:30 AM
1. The Sox should've traded Konerko when they had the chance and let Daubach or Gload become the starting first basemen. They're just as good.
2. The Sox should trade everyone that's on the team for Brian Roberts.
3. Ricky Porchello is already the greatest pitcher to ever put on spikes
4. Incredibly insane, obscure stats ensure that someone else's player is better than anyone on the Sox.
5. Trading Lee and letting Maggs walk is just a sign of the Sox quitting.
6. Jerry Manuel's not letting Buehrle pitch in Yankee Stadium cost the Sox the season in 2003.
7. Jake Peavy not wanting to come the Southside was KW's fault.

thedudeabides
07-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Pizza is awesome. But where you get it from and what style it is, will lead to a war.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Don't EVER include the name Brian Anderson or BA in your thread titles...or it is doomed from the start.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 10:51 AM
(I forget who) for Thornton

That's Borchard


Young and Carter for Quentin

Young was in the Javy deal. Carter was traded straight up for Q.

salty99
07-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Don't call Jon Garland "Judy"
Don't evade the **** language filter

Mod Edit: This is the second time you've made fun of the rules around here. Please let the mods do their job and if you want to discuss board policy, take it up via PM with me. In addition, you manged to evade the language filter, so I gave you three days to figure it out.

asindc
07-10-2009, 10:56 AM
That's Borchard



Young was in the Javy deal. Carter was traded straight up for Q.

Thanks, I thought I had that one mixed up.

Iwritecode
07-10-2009, 11:01 AM
Royce Clayton was a better shortstop than Jose Valentin.

cbone
07-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Putting ketchup on a hot dog may or may not get you a stretch in prison.

JGarlandrules20
07-10-2009, 11:02 AM
6. Jerry Manuel's not letting Buehrle pitch in Yankee Stadium cost the Sox the season in 2003.

It was that -and- the Jose Paniagua game.

KenBerryGrab
07-10-2009, 11:29 AM
You can never get enough churros.

Visiting the concourse without an outfield ticket is rude.

spawn
07-10-2009, 11:35 AM
****ty bench players on our roster can be packaged to acqiure legitimate All-Star talent.

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2009, 11:45 AM
****ty bench players on our roster can be packaged to acqiure legitimate All-Star talent.

Only if you're Jim Hendry and you deal with the Pirates.

doublem23
07-10-2009, 11:52 AM
6. Jerry Manuel's not letting Buehrle pitch in Yankee Stadium cost the Sox the season in 2003.

That one, at least partly, is true.

On the plus side, at least that royal choke job in 2003 was the final straw that got Ghandi Manuel his walking papers. Alls well that ends well, am I right?

NLaloosh
07-10-2009, 11:54 AM
If a guy is overweight then he can't be a good baseball player - except some guys like Bobby Jenks, David Wells, Rick Reuschel, BABE RUTH, Tony Gwynn, Bartolo Colon, Yogi Berra, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard etc. etc. etc.

doublem23
07-10-2009, 11:59 AM
What I learned: Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher were salary dumps.

The term "salary dump" implies that the players traded are good, valuable additions to an MLB roster, which Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez most certainly aren't.

They were garbage dumps, in that they are ****ty players making waaaaaay too much money.

thedudeabides
07-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Only if you're Jim Hendry and you deal with the Pirates.


Frater has traded Paul Konerko in approximately 7,164 different scenarios. :wink:

jabrch
07-10-2009, 12:20 PM
The term "salary dump" implies that the players traded are good, valuable additions to an MLB roster, which Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez most certainly aren't.

They were garbage dumps, in that they are ****ty players making waaaaaay too much money.

Given this, I'd propose adding Javy is a ****ty pitcher to the list.

asindc
07-10-2009, 12:33 PM
If a guy is overweight then he can't be a good baseball player - except some guys like Bobby Jenks, David Wells, Rick Reuschel, BABE RUTH, Tony Gwynn, Bartolo Colon, Yogi Berra, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard etc. etc. etc.

Well, in the context of how he pitched while he was here, Fat David certainly proved the theory then.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-10-2009, 01:18 PM
Given this, I'd propose adding Javy is a ****ty pitcher to the list.

I agree with you. I know a lot of Sox fans would kill to have him back eating innings right now.

munchman33
07-10-2009, 01:41 PM
I agree with you. I know a lot of Sox fans would kill to have him back eating innings right now.

Even if it meant trading Dye instead? Payroll had to drop. Javy had the highest suck to buck ratio.

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2009, 01:57 PM
Frater has traded Paul Konerko in approximately 7,164 different scenarios. :wink:

Is that all? I have 12,000+ posts. I thought at least 11,900 of them were about trading Paulie.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 01:57 PM
I agree with you. I know a lot of Sox fans would kill to have him back eating innings right now.

I don't believe I would classify what Javy has done this year as "eating innings". 2.95 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 136K/23BB 10 HR in 119 IP. That's not "eating innings". That's damn ****ing good. I had no problem with the Javy move - money had to go somewhere, and KW got a good prospect in Flowers. That, however, does not translate to Javy being a "****ty" pitcher.

Bobby Thigpen
07-10-2009, 02:21 PM
I don't believe I would classify what Javy has done this year as "eating innings". 2.95 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 136K/23BB 10 HR in 119 IP. That's not "eating innings". That's damn ****ing good. I had no problem with the Javy move - money had to go somewhere, and KW got a good prospect in Flowers. That, however, does not translate to Javy being a "****ty" pitcher.
He's in the NL. The Braves suck and are going nowhere.

Those two factors, combined equal a good year from Javy. I'm sure if they turn it around and get into contention he'll promptly begin giving up 4 runs in the 5th inning like clockwork.

thedudeabides
07-10-2009, 02:29 PM
Is that all? I have 12,000+ posts. I thought at least 11,900 of them were about trading Paulie.

Either, I miscalculated or you're slipping. :cool:

jabrch
07-10-2009, 02:31 PM
He's in the NL. The Braves suck and are going nowhere.

Those two factors, combined equal a good year from Javy. I'm sure if they turn it around and get into contention he'll promptly begin giving up 4 runs in the 5th inning like clockwork.

So he is a ****ty pitcher...who happens to have an ERA under 3.00 and a WHIP of almost 1. That's ridiculous.

everafan
07-10-2009, 02:36 PM
- Paul Konerko is done...ditto for Contreras & Pods.
- Chris Getz is not a major league player
- Bobby Jenks is like the 25th best closer in baseball...definately not better than David Weathers.
- Its a fallacy that runners steal on the pitcher and not on the catcher...AJ is terrible defensively.
- Players (especially young ones) can not really get better much better at hitting or fielding ergo trade alexei now.
- Kenny should do something for this team but every good player suggested in trade rumors is declining rapidly and shoul be avoided.
- All our prospects suck...but don't trade them unless we are getting Halladay, Crawford, or Peavy in return.
- the only good pitchers in our bullpen is Jenks, Thornton, and Carrasco (but last year Carrasco wasn't a major leage pitcher).all we got is some guy named Quinten.
- The Cabrera/Willis trade won the 2008 world series for the tigers no point in playing the season.
-Beurhle wants to be traded to St.Louis, accomadate the traitor.
- We should acquire Jose Silva :scratch:


Feel free to add your own! :redneck

Brian Anderson would have caught that.

chisoxfanatic
07-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Brian Anderson would have caught that.
There is truth to that, though. BA makes a habit of making non-routine plays routine.

Noir
07-10-2009, 03:29 PM
B-Mac how did you guys come up with that one?

CLR01
07-10-2009, 03:34 PM
No one can start a thread about Wise or Anderson without it devolving into roadhouse material.


That's because certain people whine at the mere mention of he who's name should not be mentioned.

CLR01
07-10-2009, 03:49 PM
That one, at least partly, is true.

On the plus side, at least that royal choke job in 2003 was the final straw that got Ghandi Manuel his walking papers. Alls well that ends well, am I right?


Can you prove that at all?

IIRC, Buehrle got rocked the next night in Detroit.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-10-2009, 03:59 PM
I don't believe I would classify what Javy has done this year as "eating innings". 2.95 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 136K/23BB 10 HR in 119 IP. That's not "eating innings". That's damn ****ing good. I had no problem with the Javy move - money had to go somewhere, and KW got a good prospect in Flowers. That, however, does not translate to Javy being a "****ty" pitcher.

While I agree he is having a great year in the NL, I think if he was back in the American League still playing for the Sox his number might reflect more of the "inning eater" role that he played last year.

Bobby Thigpen
07-10-2009, 04:01 PM
So he is a ****ty pitcher...who happens to have an ERA under 3.00 and a WHIP of almost 1. That's ridiculous.
He sure as heck was for the Sox. That's all the evidence I need.

jabrch
07-10-2009, 06:53 PM
He sure as heck was for the Sox. That's all the evidence I need.

The year before he was very effective. What did that prove or not prove to you?

cheezheadsoxfan
07-10-2009, 07:12 PM
Floyd would have had a no-hitter if Ozzie had put in BA instead of leaving in Swisher. (Which I kinda want to believe).

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-10-2009, 07:47 PM
The year before he was very effective. What did that prove or not prove to you?

It proves that Vazquez is a head case.

He can look like Cy Young as long as his team is not in contention. Notice that he was awesome with the Expos, a team that hardly ever made a dent in the playoff picture, and with the 2007 Sox, who just sucked that year.

2001 - Expos (68-94) - 16-11, 3.64 ERA, 208 Ks
2002 - Expos (83-79) - 10-13, 3.91 ERA, 179 Ks
2003 - Expos (83-79) - 13-12, 3.24 ERA, 241 Ks

Even though his team had a winning record those last two years, they finished well out of the playoff picture, ending the season 19 and 18 games out, respectively.

Let's take a look at when he got traded to the Yankees.

2004 - Yankees (101-61) - 14-10, 4.91 ERA (!!), 150 Ks

His team did awesome, and Vazquez had a winning record (no doubt because of the Yanks' killer offense) but his ERA increased by 1.67 and his Ks decreased by 91. That is a red flag, right there. The Yankees, who decided that Vazquez was not the ace they traded for, sent him to Arizona.

2005 - Diamondbacks (77-85)- 11-15, 4.42 ERA, 192 Ks

Despite the losing record, the D'Backs were in contention, as this was the infamous season where the Padres won the division with an 82-80 record. After the season, the White Sox picked him up.

2006 - White Sox (90-72) - 11-12, 4.84 ERA, 184 Ks
2007 - White Sox (72-90) - 15-8, 3.74 ERA, 213 Ks
2008 - White Sox (89-74) - 12-16, 4.67 ERA, 200 Ks

In the two years where the Sox were in the race to the end, he tapered off. But the one year where the Sox failed miserably, he conveniently becomes that ace that he was supposed to be.
This is no longer a coincidence...this is a trend.

doublem23
07-10-2009, 08:13 PM
Even if it meant trading Dye instead? Payroll had to drop. Javy had the highest suck to buck ratio.

Exactly! I wasn't wild about the plans to replace his innings, but people need to stop pretending like Javier was anything special. **** him. He's a crap pitcher and there was no way he and Ozzie would be able to coexist any longer. He had to go.

doublem23
07-10-2009, 08:15 PM
I don't believe I would classify what Javy has done this year as "eating innings". 2.95 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 136K/23BB 10 HR in 119 IP. That's not "eating innings". That's damn ****ing good. I had no problem with the Javy move - money had to go somewhere, and KW got a good prospect in Flowers. That, however, does not translate to Javy being a "****ty" pitcher.

National League. Pitcher's park. Team barely in contention. Javier is in paradise.

bigdommer
07-11-2009, 09:22 AM
National League. Pitcher's park. Team barely in contention. Javier is in paradise.

You can add "a city and media market that is more interested in the UGA spring football game than pro baseball."

On a serious note and this is pure speculation, but Javy always wanted to be closer to his family in PR. That's why he wanted out of Arizona, too long of a flight. Now the family is 3 hours away on a direct flight. Maybe, added to this list, he's just in his "happy place."

doublem23
07-11-2009, 09:26 AM
You can add "a city and media market that is more interested in the UGA spring football game than pro baseball."

On a serious note and this is pure speculation, but Javy always wanted to be closer to his family in PR. That's why he wanted out of Arizona, too long of a flight. Now the family is 3 hours away on a direct flight. Maybe, added to this list, he's just in his "happy place."

Yeah. Look, if you want to be peeved about the "plan" the Sox had to fill Javier's 200 innings this season, that's fine and totally reasonable. But if you really think Javier would have a sub-3.00 ERA and WHIP floating around 1, then we just need to agree to disagree. He had to go. His welcome in Chicago was worn out.

bigdommer
07-11-2009, 09:49 AM
Whoever mentioned the "buck to suck" ratio hit the nail on the head. KW wanted to trim payroll, and Javy was the most overpaid guy on the team. If he was making the MLB minimum, he would fit in well as our fifth starter.

TornLabrum
07-11-2009, 02:44 PM
I just learned that Jermaine Dye might be the greatest White Sock ever. (I'm doubtful of that claim because I'm wearing some pretty comfortable white socks even as I type this.)

LongLiveFisk
07-11-2009, 04:11 PM
If the Sox lose, then DeWayne Wise must have had a hand in it somewhere.

:tomatoaward

TheVulture
07-11-2009, 06:12 PM
Heck yea, they were salary dumps. The Swisher one was okay, but the Vazquez one...I'm still upset about.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

The Sox had better players where Swisher might fit into a good lineup: Konerko, Thome, Dye, Quentin. He made it quite clear he would be a nuisance if employed in the only role that would have had value to the team: utility player.

Trading a player that has no use is not a salary dump, it's clearing the roster of a useless player.

Vazquez took a major dump on the Sox last year. The man went 12-16 on a division winner, nearly cost them the division in September, and then wet the bed in the playoffs.

Vazquez was only a salary dump in the sense that it's a waste to pay a garbage pitcher 12 million. Great, he's pitching well for Atlanta. If he got the job done with the Sox, he'd still be here.

Tragg
07-12-2009, 01:00 PM
There is no difference between a .320 obp and a .250 obp

khan
07-13-2009, 12:07 PM
Criticizing ANY white SOX player, including Lillibridge, Logan, Bukvich(sp?), or insert-name-of-any-craptacular-player will start a regional skirmish.

Differing with ANY move OG makes will ignite a clash of Pro and anti OG factions.

Disagreeing with ANY move KW makes will initiate a Global Thermonuclear conflagration.

voodoochile
07-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Because of the wide amount of instant "information" on the Internet, many fans are actually better informed about clubhouse interactions, player contributions and overall ability of both minor and major league players and thus can do a better job of running the team than KW and OG.

voodoochile
07-13-2009, 12:21 PM
KW is a genius and the greatest GM ever.

KW is a fool who lucked into his sole championship and has no clue on the direction the franchise should be taking.

Ozzie is the worst manager ever, has no clue how to handle young players, doesn't care about winning and is a complete buffoon.

Ozzie is a genius who refuses to accept mediocre play, cares only about winning and does a great job of taking pressure off the team by getting the press to focus on him.

2005!!!!! Means nothing...

2005!!!! Means everything...

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) could really help this team.

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) is a washed up, has-been, smelly, decrepit, piece of **** who has no business playing baseball at all let alone befouling the Holy Temple that is the White Sox Clubhouse.

and finally...

JR is cheap and timid who is only looking for a way to decrease payroll so he can take the windfall profits from the increased attendance.

JR USED to be cheap and timid but is forgiven for his past indiscretions because he brought home a World Series title and clearly cares about winning to the point where he will spend as much as the budget allows to continued the teams success and anyone who says different is a total fool.

Ron Karkovice
07-13-2009, 12:32 PM
yes! this thread can officially be closed now.

spawn
07-13-2009, 01:01 PM
KW is a genius and the greatest GM ever.

KW is a fool who lucked into his sole championship and has no clue on the direction the franchise should be taking.

Ozzie is the worst manager ever, has no clue how to handle young players, doesn't care about winning and is a complete buffoon.

Ozzie is a genius who refuses to accept mediocre play, cares only about winning and does a great job of taking pressure off the team by getting the press to focus on him.

2005!!!!! Means nothing...

2005!!!! Means everything...

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) could really help this team.

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) is a washed up, has-been, smelly, decrepit, piece of **** who has no business playing baseball at all let alone befouling the Holy Temple that is the White Sox Clubhouse.

and finally...

JR is cheap and timid who is only looking for a way to decrease payroll so he can take the windfall profits from the increased attendance.

JR USED to be cheap and timid but is forgiven for his past indiscretions because he brought home a World Series title and clearly cares about winning to the point where he will spend as much as the budget allows to continued the teams success and anyone who says different is a total fool.
This post just reeks of awesomeness. Well done. :thumbsup:

TommyJohn
07-13-2009, 02:04 PM
KW is a genius and the greatest GM ever.

KW is a fool who lucked into his sole championship and has no clue on the direction the franchise should be taking.

Ozzie is the worst manager ever, has no clue how to handle young players, doesn't care about winning and is a complete buffoon.

Ozzie is a genius who refuses to accept mediocre play, cares only about winning and does a great job of taking pressure off the team by getting the press to focus on him.

2005!!!!! Means nothing...

2005!!!! Means everything...

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) could really help this team.

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) is a washed up, has-been, smelly, decrepit, piece of **** who has no business playing baseball at all let alone befouling the Holy Temple that is the White Sox Clubhouse.

and finally...

JR is cheap and timid who is only looking for a way to decrease payroll so he can take the windfall profits from the increased attendance.

JR USED to be cheap and timid but is forgiven for his past indiscretions because he brought home a World Series title and clearly cares about winning to the point where he will spend as much as the budget allows to continued the teams success and anyone who says different is a total fool.


My head hurts!!!!!

chisoxfanatic
07-13-2009, 02:08 PM
kw is a genius and the greatest gm ever.

Kw is a fool who lucked into his sole championship and has no clue on the direction the franchise should be taking.

Ozzie is the worst manager ever, has no clue how to handle young players, doesn't care about winning and is a complete buffoon.

Ozzie is a genius who refuses to accept mediocre play, cares only about winning and does a great job of taking pressure off the team by getting the press to focus on him.

2005!!!!! Means nothing...

2005!!!! Means everything...

(insert player's name from 2005 team here) could really help this team.

(insert player's name from 2005 team here) is a washed up, has-been, smelly, decrepit, piece of **** who has no business playing baseball at all let alone befouling the holy temple that is the white sox clubhouse.

And finally...

Jr is cheap and timid who is only looking for a way to decrease payroll so he can take the windfall profits from the increased attendance.

Jr used to be cheap and timid but is forgiven for his past indiscretions because he brought home a world series title and clearly cares about winning to the point where he will spend as much as the budget allows to continued the teams success and anyone who says different is a total fool.
potw!

TornLabrum
07-13-2009, 03:03 PM
KW is a genius and the greatest GM ever.

KW is a fool who lucked into his sole championship and has no clue on the direction the franchise should be taking.

Ozzie is the worst manager ever, has no clue how to handle young players, doesn't care about winning and is a complete buffoon.

Ozzie is a genius who refuses to accept mediocre play, cares only about winning and does a great job of taking pressure off the team by getting the press to focus on him.

2005!!!!! Means nothing...

2005!!!! Means everything...

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) could really help this team.

(Insert player's name from 2005 team here) is a washed up, has-been, smelly, decrepit, piece of **** who has no business playing baseball at all let alone befouling the Holy Temple that is the White Sox Clubhouse.

and finally...

JR is cheap and timid who is only looking for a way to decrease payroll so he can take the windfall profits from the increased attendance.

JR USED to be cheap and timid but is forgiven for his past indiscretions because he brought home a World Series title and clearly cares about winning to the point where he will spend as much as the budget allows to continued the teams success and anyone who says different is a total fool.

I think you've summarized just about everything I've read about the Sox on WSI since the end of the Ron Schueler-Jerry Manuel era.