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russ99
07-06-2009, 09:10 AM
Richard has looked shaky the last few outings. Sure he has his good innings and strikes out a fair number of batters, but there's always that one big inning.

Ozzie's quoted today wondering if Colon will be ready soon.

What's your take? I'd like to see Poreda in there, but the Metrodome wouldn't be a good place for his first start.

Marqhead
07-06-2009, 09:14 AM
Forfeit and save the bullpen for the other four days.

I'd stick with Richard, he's shown before that he can be semi-reliable. Maybe I'd just stick with him because I'm not too fond of the other options.

BringBackBlkJack
07-06-2009, 09:31 AM
I believe Poreda is owed a shot, just like Richard was last year.

Huisj
07-06-2009, 09:42 AM
I like watching Richard. He's got an arm for sure, and his poise seems good at times--he has shown toughness in the past.

I wonder if he's overthrowing a bit right now. His velocity has seemed to be way up lately compared to what we always heard about him last year, and while that can be fun to watch, the recent results make me wonder if he's a guy who's stuff is better at 91-92 than it is at 94-95 like he was trying to throw yesterday. He had a few batters in that game where he just tried to throw hard fastball after hard fastball after hard fastball, and it just wasn't working. Maybe dialing it back a smidgen to get more sink could help things out.

cards press box
07-06-2009, 09:51 AM
Earl Weaver once said that the best place for rookie pitchers is the bullpen pitching long relief. Long relief presumably gives rookies a chance to get acclimated to the big leagues. Yesterday, Steve Stone said that Aaron Poreda was getting valuable experience each time he appeared in relief. I imagine that Poreda is getting accustomed to the major leagues and, hopefully, is developing off speed pitches to go with his fastball.

I don't know if Poreda has sufficiently developed the secondary pitches to start. If he develops a good slider, he could be awfully tough on right handed hitters. Once Poreda has sufficient off speed pitched to compliment the fastball, the Sox will likely start him because he has the most upside of any of their pitching prospects.

tm1119
07-06-2009, 10:06 AM
Bring up Torres and send down/release Gobble. Lets see what Torres has, he has pretty much proved everything he needs to in AAA. This also allows Richard to go back to the pen where he most likely belongs.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Richard is best as a long reliever. I think he would be very effective in that role, in fact, and could be a good replacement for Thornton one day.

As a starter, he just can't be relied on to get anything more than 5 innings, if that, so every time he takes the mound it taxes the bullpen. I voted for a minor leaguer (like Torres) or acquiring some other option.

I would leave Poreda where he is. He needs experience at the major league level and I'm not convinced at this stage of his career he would get more than 5 innings, either.

voodoochile
07-06-2009, 10:29 AM
Stick with Richard for now. If he can continue to pitch .500 ball and post an ERA under 5.00 he's a fine 5th starter. Obviously when Colon comes back he gets his job back anyway, so for now leave things alone. Regardless of yesterday's game, the 5th starter slot isn't broken

Domeshot17
07-06-2009, 10:53 AM
Richard has made it out of the 5th inning once in a month. He is not the best option or really a good one

Poreda is fine in 1 inning stints when he can rely on his fastball, but he is not ready to be a starter. MLB hitters will basically be seeing fastballs for 5-6 innings, not a recipe for success.

Colon is unknown

I voted for trade, get a real good starting pitcher, and slot everyone else down a spot. I don't expect Contreras to keep his dominance up mostly because of his age, but hes fine as a back end SP. Take some pressure off Gavin by matching him up with other teams 4th SP and hopefully the guy we get is a righty we can slot between Danks and Burls.

russ99
07-06-2009, 11:09 AM
I like watching Richard. He's got an arm for sure, and his poise seems good at times--he has shown toughness in the past.

I wonder if he's overthrowing a bit right now. His velocity has seemed to be way up lately compared to what we always heard about him last year, and while that can be fun to watch, the recent results make me wonder if he's a guy who's stuff is better at 91-92 than it is at 94-95 like he was trying to throw yesterday. He had a few batters in that game where he just tried to throw hard fastball after hard fastball after hard fastball, and it just wasn't working. Maybe dialing it back a smidgen to get more sink could help things out.

I like the added velocity, but it seems to me he gets into trouble either the second time through the lineup or when he walks batters. I can't tell if this is just inexperience, or if he's reached his ceiling as a starter. Maybe Coop can get him to mix things up a bit better the second time through...

This also tells me he'd be a very effective reliever, and I also can see him replacing Thornton a year or two down the road.

I'd give him 2 more starts to prove himself further (especially in the Metrodome) and if he's not made adjustments to work longer in games, we'd likely have other options available, or could make a deal before the deadline.

soxfanreggie
07-06-2009, 11:19 AM
I would love to see the Sox make a trade for a SP; however, if we don't decide to address that position until the offseason, I would go with Colon to start to see what he has or if we should replace him.

asindc
07-06-2009, 11:25 AM
Since one of the options is a healthy Bartolo Colon, that's what I choose, since a healthy Bartolo Colon is the best pitcher among that group.

Tragg
07-06-2009, 11:58 AM
If Richard was our fifth starter in the 01-04 era, we would have made the playoffs at least once.

He's got a lot of improving to do, but he's lightyears ahead of what we had and of what most major league teams have.

DirtySox
07-06-2009, 12:22 PM
Bartolo is a one pitch pitcher at this point and will likely give you the same production as Richard. Might as well go with the kid to let him develop.

TDog
07-06-2009, 01:07 PM
Stick with Richard for now. If he can continue to pitch .500 ball and post an ERA under 5.00 he's a fine 5th starter. Obviously when Colon comes back he gets his job back anyway, so for now leave things alone. Regardless of yesterday's game, the 5th starter slot isn't broken

And if Colon comes back and can't be successful past the fifth inning, you have Richard in long relief. As a starter, Richard generally doesn't have trouble getting through the lineup once. Theoretically, that sets up the late relievers nicely, although it seems wasteful to designate two pitchers every fifth day.

JB98
07-06-2009, 01:32 PM
Stick with Richard. The Sox are 6-5 in his 11 starts. If the team is playing .500 ball behind it's No. 5 starter, that's acceptable.

Colon is done. Poreda's future is in the bullpen, IMO.

Whitesoxfan23
07-06-2009, 01:37 PM
I can't believe the long rope WSI gives Richard. If he starts a game, there is a very good chance he won't even make it to the 5th inning. Richard is not a good starting pitcher, and probably never will be. I do think he is a pretty good reliever though.

Whitesoxfan23
07-06-2009, 01:39 PM
If Richard was our fifth starter in the 01-04 era, we would have made the playoffs at least once.

He's got a lot of improving to do, but he's lightyears ahead of what we had and of what most major league teams have.


I really hope this was meant to be written in teal. If not... LOL.

Huisj
07-06-2009, 01:53 PM
I really hope this was meant to be written in teal. If not... LOL.


Which part do you mean? I would have to agree with the first statement.

Richard > Schoeneweis + Grilli + Felix Diaz + Danny Wright + Josh Stewart + Mike Porzio +Todd Richie + Gary Glover + Rocky Biddle

hi im skot
07-06-2009, 01:55 PM
Bartolo Colon - there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

Give Poreda a shot. Richard has had some great moments, but he's struggled over the last several weeks.

Also, if I see him over/under-throw first base again I may be forced to stab myself in the face.

tm1119
07-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Stick with Richard. The Sox are 6-5 in his 11 starts. If the team is playing .500 ball behind it's No. 5 starter, that's acceptable.

Colon is done. Poreda's future is in the bullpen, IMO.

Richard has a future in the rotation, but Poreda is destined for the pen? That is completely backwards. I think its pretty clear that Richard doesnt have the stuff to be anything more than a 5th starter. Unless he suddenly comes up with an out pitch hes going to continue to struggle. He finds too many bats with his pitches that usually results in fly balls. He is much more suited to be an NL pitcher than AL it appears. Our stadium probably isnt helping him either.
Given the time and proper coaching Poreda will be a Sox starter for a decade, if not longer.

BringBackBlkJack
07-06-2009, 02:11 PM
Which part do you mean? I would have to agree with the first statement.

Richard > Schoeneweis + Grilli + Felix Diaz + Danny Wright + Josh Stewart + Mike Porzio +Todd Richie + Gary Glover + Rocky Biddle

Absolutely correct. Let me add one more to this gag-inducing list... Arnie Munoz. :puking:

Huisj
07-06-2009, 02:15 PM
I really hope this was meant to be written in teal. If not... LOL.



And as for the second part, a look at some other good teams' 5th starters:

Detroit:
Willis 1-4 7.49
Bonderman 0-1 13.50
Miner 2-1 4.74 as starter
Figaro 1-1 7.36
French 0-0 3.86 in one start

Minnesota:
Perkins 4-4 4.38
Swarzak 2-2 3.90

Boston:
Matsuzaka 1-5 8.23
Masterson 2-2 4.58 as starter
Smoltz 0-1 6.00

Yankees:
Wang 1-6 11.38 as starter
Hughes 3-2 5.45 as starter

TB: (hard to sort out who their "5th" is because of injuries)
Sonnanstine 6-7 6.61
Kazmir 4-5 6.79
Price 2-3 5.21

Toronto:
Cecil 2-1 6.23
Janssen 2-3 6.23
Purcey 0-2 7.01
Burres 0-2 14.21
Mills 0-2 14.09
Litsch 0-1 9.00

Angels:
Santana 1-4 7.43
Loux 2-3 5.40
Ortega 0-2 9.24

Texas:
Harrison 4-5 6.11
Holland 1-4 6.23 as starter
Benson 1-1 9.00 as starter
Hunter 1-1 3.18

Seattle:
Silva 1-3 8.48
Olson 3-2 5.00 as starter
Jakubauskas 2-5 6.64 as starter

The production the Sox have gotten from their 5th starters is at least as good as the other over-.500 teams in the AL except maybe for Minnesota.

soxnut1018
07-06-2009, 02:49 PM
Where's the churros option on this poll?

BadBobbyJenks
07-06-2009, 03:02 PM
How many times do we need to see Richard get pasted when lineups see him a 2nd time or third time in a game before we get the idea, he is not a starter?

There is no reason for Poreda to be up here unless it is to start games.

twinsuck
07-06-2009, 03:12 PM
DJ for starter!

russ99
07-06-2009, 03:57 PM
Where's the churros option on this poll?

I suppose I could have added a "Let's eat a churro and go with a 4-man rotation like in the old days!"

ramblinsoxfan11
07-06-2009, 05:42 PM
I suppose I could have added a "Let's eat a churro and go with a 4-man rotation like in the old days!"

Worked in 2005 :D:

Beuhrle, Freddy, Jose and Garland....although I guess technically El Duke was our number 5 guy

Konerko05
07-06-2009, 05:56 PM
DJ for starter!

Why would you want to make the bullpen and the starting rotation worse?

Boondock Saint
07-06-2009, 06:12 PM
I like Poreda, and think (to some extent) that he's being wasted in the pen, when he should be putting in innings either up here or in AAA. I'm just not sure that he's ready to start yet. If he does start and gets shelled/gives up walks all over the place, etc., it could destroy his confidence.

I picked Richard just for the fact that he's the one that's been doing it, and he isn't terrible as a fifth starter. Every once in a while he pulls out a gem and helps lift the team up.

thomas35forever
07-06-2009, 06:17 PM
After seeing how similar the numbers are, I gotta go with a healthy Bartolo. Richard's had his chance. Let's go back in the direction we were in at the start of the season.

Konerko05
07-06-2009, 06:26 PM
After seeing how similar the numbers are, I gotta go with a healthy Bartolo. Richard's had his chance. Let's go back in the direction we were in at the start of the season.

Their numbers being similar would make me more inclined to go with Richard the rest of the way. Colon isn't going to get any better. He's an old injury prone pitcher who no longer has the powerful fastball he used to rely on.

Richard is a young starter who has considerably better stuff than Colon. He still has room to improve. It makes more sense for the present and future to see how much better Richard can become.

Tragg
07-06-2009, 06:39 PM
I really hope this was meant to be written in teal. If not... LOL.
My guess is that you've forgotten just how bad it was back then:

2001: Danny Wright - ERA of 5.79
2002: Danny Wright -ERA of 5.18 (or Gary Glover, 5.20)
2003: Danny WRight - ERA of 6.15; the Sox also tried Josh Steward (5.96), Mike Porzio (6.43) or Neal Cotts (8.43)
2004: Here, we tried Wright, Rauch, Stewart, Grilli, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, et al....all had humongous ERAs. Williams finally fixes it by acquring Garcia (and then switching Loiza for Contreras).

Richard is a #1 starter compared to the 5th starters in that era.

Look at 2003 - we missed the division by 4 games. And I think it's close to indisputable that we win the division with Richard's output in 2003 from the fifth starter.

That said, I think Colon or Poreda are good choices as well. We're just in a lot better shape here than we have been. 5th starter isn't in the top 1/2 of this team's weaknesses, imo.

Huisj
07-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Richard is a #1 starter compared to the 5th starters in that era.

Look at 2003 - we missed the division by 4 games. And I think it's close to indisputable that we win the division with Richard's output in 2003 from the fifth starter.



The Sox went 12-15 in games started by Wright, Stewart, Porzio, and Cotts in '03. All other games were started by Buerhle, Garland, Loaiza, and Colon.

So far this year, the Sox are 6-5 in games started by Richard. That would be about the same as the team going 15-12 in those 27 starts in '03, so saying it's indesputable might be a stretch. Of course, if the 5th starters had put up a Richard-like ERA in '03, maybe they'd have gone better than 15-12 because of offensive support, but '03 might be the one year where the 5th starter spot, as bad as it was, didn't actually kill the Sox as much as it seemed.


Extending that kind of thinking to '04, the Sox went 9-16 in games started by Wright, Diaz, Cotts, Grilli, Munoz, Rauch, and Stewart. All other games were started by Buehrle, Garland, Loaiza, Garcia, Contrares, and Schoeneweis. So that seems like the year where not having a 5th starter really hurt them. They started the season with Schoeneweis and Wright as #4 and #5. Wright started 4 games (badly) and went on the DL, and that led to the revolving door of failures. Then they got Garcia and shipped Loaiza for Contrares, but even after that effectively added another starter, they still had the revolving door in the 5 spot because Shoeneweis went on the DL (and the Sox were only 8-11 in his starts anyway).

The Sox finished 9 out that year, and it's pretty likely that even with decent .500ish production from the 5th spot, the wouldn't have won the division with Thomas and Ordonez out.

Mohoney
07-06-2009, 08:49 PM
There is no reason for Poreda to be up here unless it is to start games.

Aaron Poreda would need to go back down for at least 3 or 4 starts to get stretched out again. Until this happens, people need to stop clamoring for him to start.

Tragg
07-06-2009, 09:42 PM
The Sox went 12-15 in games started by Wright, Stewart, Porzio, and Cotts in '03. All other games were started by Buerhle, Garland, Loaiza, and Colon.
That's a pretty anomalous result of the direct effect of pitching as bad as we had out of the 5th starter. After all, they won FOUR in aggregate, and that includes any wins out of any relief appearances some of them had. Those 12 wins were the result of some major efforts by the offense and/or pen. Anomalous.
Having that bad of a 5th starter put immense pressure on the bullpen. In addition, we skipped the 5th starter spot several times during the year, which also put more pressure on the rest of the starters.

Huisj
07-06-2009, 09:56 PM
That's a pretty anomalous result of the direct effect of pitching as bad as we had out of the 5th starter. After all, they won FOUR in aggregate, and that includes any wins out of any relief appearances some of them had. Those 12 wins were the result of some major efforts by the offense and/or pen. Anomalous.
Having that bad of a 5th starter put immense pressure on the bullpen. In addition, we skipped the 5th starter spot several times during the year, which also put more pressure on the rest of the starters.

Exactly, there are a ton of factors that go into it. It's definitely not as simple as saying "put such-and-such a pitcher's stats in and the Sox go X-X and win the division or don't".

I guess what the stats pointed out is exactly what you mention--it's amazing (ridiculous really) that they did go 12-15 in those games. It also points out how terrible pitching performances week after week are what really stick in the mind of the fan when title at the end of the season was so close, even if by some stroke of luck those starts alone weren't what lost it.

Baseball is a funny game.

Maybe for Poreda's sake (for his development), the Sox need a crappy 5th starter right now. That way he'll for sure have long relief innings to throw once a week since he doesn't seem to be able to get much work when the good pitchers throw. :D:

Tragg
07-06-2009, 10:00 PM
Maybe for Poreda's sake (for his development), the Sox need a crappy 5th starter right now. That way he'll for sure have long relief innings to throw once a week since he doesn't seem to be able to get much work when the good pitchers throw. :D:
Again, my point is that he's just not that crappy compared to what we had. And actually, whether this is good or bad, he's had some really effective starts (and some where he was pulled in the 3rd).

I guess I should look at the 5th starters of the rest of the majors and see how Richard stacks up. Maybe I will.

Huisj
07-06-2009, 10:06 PM
Again, my point is that he's just not that crappy compared to what we had. And actually, whether this is good or bad, he's had some really effective starts (and some where he was pulled in the 3rd).

I guess I should look at the 5th starters of the rest of the majors and see how Richard stacks up. Maybe I will.

You can start here. :smile:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2280558&postcount=23

JB98
07-06-2009, 10:06 PM
Richard has a future in the rotation, but Poreda is destined for the pen? That is completely backwards. I think its pretty clear that Richard doesnt have the stuff to be anything more than a 5th starter. Unless he suddenly comes up with an out pitch hes going to continue to struggle. He finds too many bats with his pitches that usually results in fly balls. He is much more suited to be an NL pitcher than AL it appears. Our stadium probably isnt helping him either.
Given the time and proper coaching Poreda will be a Sox starter for a decade, if not longer.

But Poreda definitely has no business in the rotation right now. With Poreda, everything is hard. He has two big-league quality pitches: his fastball and a hard slider. He looks like a relief pitcher to me. Of course, he's hardly reached his ceiling. He could develop a change up, or learn to change speeds on his slider, or add another pitch entirely. But until that happens, he's a reliever.

Richard actually has a good change up, plus a good low 90s fastball. He lacks consistency on his slider, but at least he knows how to change speeds. I don't know why you don't like his stuff. Did you see him strike out the side in the second inning yesterday? He actually has a more diverse arsenal than Poreda. He's definitely further along in his development than Poreda, and he's only lost two games for the Sox this year. I think people are just being impatient.

Tragg
07-06-2009, 10:11 PM
You can start here. :smile:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2280558&postcount=23

Thanks

So he stacks up pretty well.
And he's only in his 2nd year and doesn't look completely lost out there like poor Wright did.
I'll keep him.
I think people are just being impatient.
Indeed.

tm1119
07-06-2009, 11:17 PM
But Poreda definitely has no business in the rotation right now. With Poreda, everything is hard. He has two big-league quality pitches: his fastball and a hard slider. He looks like a relief pitcher to me. Of course, he's hardly reached his ceiling. He could develop a change up, or learn to change speeds on his slider, or add another pitch entirely. But until that happens, he's a reliever.

Richard actually has a good change up, plus a good low 90s fastball. He lacks consistency on his slider, but at least he knows how to change speeds. I don't know why you don't like his stuff. Did you see him strike out the side in the second inning yesterday? He actually has a more diverse arsenal than Poreda. He's definitely further along in his development than Poreda, and he's only lost two games for the Sox this year. I think people are just being impatient.

I agree with you on Poreda needing more time. Thats why my vote in this poll went towards bringing up a minor leaguer (Torres).
Richard's stuff is nothing impressive is what I'm trying to say. His fastball is in the low 90's with no real major movement to it. His changeup is probably his best pitch, but its still not great. And after that his slider really isnt even an MLB pitch. Richard just doesnt have a high ceiling. I really believe that what we are seeing is what we are going to get. He was never regarded as a high prospect and didnt really pitch great in the minors either really (until last year). And lets not forget that Richard will be 26 soon. His time to develop should have been done already.

JB98
07-07-2009, 01:16 PM
I agree with you on Poreda needing more time. Thats why my vote in this poll went towards bringing up a minor leaguer (Torres).
Richard's stuff is nothing impressive is what I'm trying to say. His fastball is in the low 90's with no real major movement to it. His changeup is probably his best pitch, but its still not great. And after that his slider really isnt even an MLB pitch. Richard just doesnt have a high ceiling. I really believe that what we are seeing is what we are going to get. He was never regarded as a high prospect and didnt really pitch great in the minors either really (until last year). And lets not forget that Richard will be 26 soon. His time to develop should have been done already.

Richard is a little behind, though, because of his football career. He's never going to be a top-of-the-rotation sort, but I can see him becoming a solid No. 4. I want to stay with him the rest of this year. I have a feeling he's close to getting the corner turned. If that doesn't happen in the second half, then maybe the Sox look in a different direction this offseason.

hawkjt
07-07-2009, 01:21 PM
I have been impressed with Clayton's velocity this year...94-96 on many pitches. That is a plus fastball. He just needs to refine a cutter/slider and with his changeup, he will be fine.

JC456
07-07-2009, 01:32 PM
Could it be as simple as pitch selection on the second or third time through the lineup?

I've noticed over the last couple of years that our pitching staff is not very found of throwing curve balls nor do our pitchers change speeds well. Floyd's curve is assume, yet he doesn't throw for an out pitch too often. I watched one game where Colon threw all fastballs. No change of speeds and sometimes no relocation of the pitch.

This Sunday I watched Richards strike out the side so it is obvious he has major league stuff. So why does he run into problems?

Lack of control?
Lack of concentration?
Mechanics?
Pitch selection
Missing the target?

I've not heard how Cooper sees it.

I'd be interested.

bigdommer
07-07-2009, 01:42 PM
While I am not thrilled with Richard, I am not sure there is a better option. I stated this on a thread a couple of days ago, but he has been more effective this year than El Duque was in 2005. The biggest difference with 2009 is that Jose needed a mulligan this year so we have notcied the #5 spot even more.

Clayton: 3-2 in 11 starts with a 4.75 ERA (2009)
El Duque: 9-9 in 22 starts with a 5.12 ERA (2005)

I did not do the research, but I don't remember many games where El Duque lasted much more than 5 innings.

KMcMahon817
07-07-2009, 01:49 PM
He was never regarded as a high prospect and didnt really pitch great in the minors either really (until last year). And lets not forget that Richard will be 26 soon. His time to develop should have been done already.

That's not necessarily true. He was asked to start to Futures games last year. That's a pretty decently regarded prospect I'd say.:cool:

Whitesoxfan23
07-07-2009, 02:06 PM
I am shocked at how well Richard is doing in this poll. :scratch: It would be interesting to see how many votes the White Sox bullpen would give him.....

tm1119
07-07-2009, 02:18 PM
That's not necessarily true. He was asked to start to Futures games last year. That's a pretty decently regarded prospect I'd say.:cool:

Not really. That just means he happened to have a good year last year. He was an 8th round draft pick who was average at best through his first 2 1/2 years of professional baseball. He got hot in AA and continued the success into AAA, but even those #'s weren't dominating like you would see from a guy who is MLB ready.

I think this article sums up Clayton best- http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/chisox-5th-starter-candidates-clayton-richard

And I would like to point out that I have nothing against Richard and I think he has a pretty good future as a left handed back end of the bullpen guy. His future just doesnt appear to be best suited as a good MLB starter.

bigdommer
07-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Not really. That just means he happened to have a good year last year. He was an 8th round draft pick who was average at best through his first 2 1/2 years of professional baseball. He got hot in AA and continued the success into AAA, but even those #'s weren't dominating like you would see from a guy who is MLB ready.

I think this article sums up Clayton best- http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/chisox-5th-starter-candidates-clayton-richard

And I would like to point out that I have nothing against Richard and I think he has a pretty good future as a left handed back end of the bullpen guy. His future just doesnt appear to be best suited as a good MLB starter.

Great, another Pecota projection.

Seriously, I think you are right. He's not exciting and he's probably not going to be a "good MLB starter." But, I am not convinced, based on the data in this thread, you need a good MLB starter as your number 5. Here are the #5 starters for some WS winners:

2008 Phils: Kyle Kendrick 11-9, 5.49 ERA
2007 Red Sox: Julian Tavarez 7-11, 5.15 ERA
2006 Cards: Mark Mulder 6-7, 7.14 ERA or Reyes 5-8, 5.06
2005 Sox: already documented
2004 Red Sox: Arroyo 10-9, 4.03 ERA

One "good MLB starter" out out of the past five #5 starters for WS champs, and Arroyo was backing up Derek Lowe at #4 who had an ERA of 5.5

While we should not accept the status quo, I am more worried about CF than the #5 starter who will pitch in 10 games and won't sniff the mound if we can win this division.

Huisj
07-07-2009, 04:37 PM
Not really. That just means he happened to have a good year last year. He was an 8th round draft pick who was average at best through his first 2 1/2 years of professional baseball. He got hot in AA and continued the success into AAA, but even those #'s weren't dominating like you would see from a guy who is MLB ready.

I think this article sums up Clayton best- http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/chisox-5th-starter-candidates-clayton-richard

And I would like to point out that I have nothing against Richard and I think he has a pretty good future as a left handed back end of the bullpen guy. His future just doesnt appear to be best suited as a good MLB starter.

Interesting thing in that article is that it mentions he gets by with his 90 mph sinker. It doesn't mention his 95 mph flat tailing fastball. That makes me wonder again about what I thought about earlier in the thread--is he overthrowing lately and sacrificing movement for velocity?