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View Full Version : How about a trade for Haren?


soxyess
07-05-2009, 12:07 PM
How about approaching Ariz for Haren. Im thinking a trade of Poreda, Richard, Allen and a couple of lower end prospects could get this done. My understanding is Ariz is having serious money problems, and they need to move salary. Its basically the Peavy deal slightly enhanced. Any thoughts?

Zisk77
07-05-2009, 12:10 PM
How about approaching Ariz for Haren. Im thinking a trade of Poreda, Richard, Allen and a couple of lower end prospects could get this done. My understanding is Ariz is having serious money problems, and they need to move salary. Its basically the Peavy deal slightly enhanced. Any thoughts?

Whats the score.

dickallen15
07-05-2009, 12:13 PM
Is there a section for pipedreams on this board?

soxyess
07-05-2009, 12:13 PM
Sorry I posted here because its simply an idea not a rumor

DumpJerry
07-05-2009, 12:14 PM
How about approaching Ariz for Haren. Im thinking a trade of Poreda, Richard, Allen and a couple of lower end prospects could get this done. My understanding is Ariz is having serious money problems, and they need to move salary. Its basically the Peavy deal slightly enhanced. Any thoughts?
Who replaces Paulie?

Why not just ship over half the 40 man roster?

soxyess
07-05-2009, 12:16 PM
Who replaces Paulie?

Why not just ship over half the 40 man roster?

I think its easier to find a first baseman than a front line young starter. Dont you think?

The Immigrant
07-05-2009, 12:17 PM
Don't think for a second that Kenny Williams has not considered trading for Haren. However, I think this is more likely to occur in the offseason.

soxyess
07-05-2009, 12:19 PM
Could you imagine a rotation of Haren, Burls, Danks, Floyd, Contreras plus our bullpen.

Brian26
07-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Is there a section for pipedreams on this board?

Unfortunately not, so I just moved it here to WTS. Consider the entire thread deep pink.

doublem23
07-05-2009, 01:15 PM
Even as bad as the Diamondbacks are, I don't see what they gain in trading Haren, especially to us, a team that still doesn't have much of a farm system. Haren is locked up for $33 million over the next three years and has a $13 million option in 2013 (in other words, ludicrously under market for a pitcher of his caliber).

I can't see us being able to put any package together, unless maybe it includes Beckham, that would be able to get him.

UofCSoxFan
07-05-2009, 01:26 PM
Who replaces Paulie?

Why not just ship over half the 40 man roster?

Wait you're saying you wouldn't trade for a top 5 pitcher in baseball because Allen is involved?

I'm sure we could find a 1B elsewhere.

thedudeabides
07-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Even as bad as the Diamondbacks are, I don't see what they gain in trading Haren, especially to us, a team that still doesn't have much of a farm system. Haren is locked up for $33 million over the next three years and has a $13 million option in 2013 (in other words, ludicrously under market for a pitcher of his caliber).

I can't see us being able to put any package together, unless maybe it includes Beckham, that would be able to get him.

I agree with you that I doubt he gets moved, but I disagree the Sox don't have the talent to put together a trade for him. The depth isn't there yet in the farm system, but the top level talent may be. With a guy like Haren you would probably have to start with a Danks or Floyd. Or a package including Flowers, Poreda, Richard and maybe others.

Keep in mind, if the D-Backs trade him it will be financially motivated, and you would probably have to take on another contract, like Eric Byrnes.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2009, 09:32 PM
I'd be willing to part with any combination of prospects to get Haren (or Halladay).

sullythered
07-05-2009, 09:47 PM
Even as bad as the Diamondbacks are, I don't see what they gain in trading Haren, especially to us, a team that still doesn't have much of a farm system. Haren is locked up for $33 million over the next three years and has a $13 million option in 2013 (in other words, ludicrously under market for a pitcher of his caliber).

I can't see us being able to put any package together, unless maybe it includes Beckham, that would be able to get him.
I disagree completely. Tyler Flowers is very highly regarded at this point. A package of him, Viciedo/Allen/Jordan Danks and Poreda/Hudson would certainly be closely considered.

By most accounts, you are underating the strides we have made in our farm system over the last year.

central44
07-05-2009, 11:15 PM
The difference in the parks would worry me. I'm not sure if Chase plays like a pitcher's park, because I really don't follow the NL West much at all. But it definitley has the dimensions of one.

I also don't think any deal gets done without the Sox including John Danks (not that I think Arizona would make a deal in the first place) and top prospects. Is that really worth it? Trading a guy like Danks who is young, has a high ceiling, and has managed to get it done in a bandbox for a guy who is slightly older, better but at the same time plays in a park like Chase Field? Plus, Danks is a big game pitcher, he proved that in Game 163. That's a valuable thing to have.

If there's a way to make this happen without including Danks, KW should look into it. Arizona would be out of their minds if they don't ask for Danks though. I just think Danks + prospects is better for the Sox than Haren + holes.

jabrch
07-05-2009, 11:19 PM
I'd be willing to part with any combination of prospects to get Haren (or Halladay).

Are you including Beckham in that category?

doublem23
07-06-2009, 12:13 AM
The difference in the parks would worry me. I'm not sure if Chase plays like a pitcher's park, because I really don't follow the NL West much at all. But it definitley has the dimensions of one.

I also don't think any deal gets done without the Sox including John Danks (not that I think Arizona would make a deal in the first place) and top prospects. Is that really worth it? Trading a guy like Danks who is young, has a high ceiling, and has managed to get it done in a bandbox for a guy who is slightly older, better but at the same time plays in a park like Chase Field? Plus, Danks is a big game pitcher, he proved that in Game 163. That's a valuable thing to have.

If there's a way to make this happen without including Danks, KW should look into it. Arizona would be out of their minds if they don't ask for Danks though. I just think Danks + prospects is better for the Sox than Haren + holes.

If the Sox are going to be adding pieces to the MLB roster, I would almost certainly assume it will not be at the expense of players already on our roster (I suspect you are confusing John Danks with his brother, Jordan Danks, a Sox farmhand currently in Birmingham).

That said, I know we're all psyched about our farm system right now because we no longer have to suffer the embarrassment of listing a guy like Brian Omogrosso as a Top 10 prospect, but Dan Haren is a great pitcher with a spectacular contract (he's owed, on average $11 million/year for the next 3 years for pete's sake.) I can't see why they would just give that up for guys who have yet to prove themselves above AA.

central44
07-06-2009, 12:41 AM
(I suspect you are confusing John Danks with his brother, Jordan Danks, a Sox farmhand currently in Birmingham).


No I meant John, I just don't think Arizona would let Haren go without getting someone like Danks--who's proven he can do it at the MLB level and still has plenty of room to grow.

doublem23
07-06-2009, 01:00 AM
No I meant John, I just don't think Arizona would let Haren go without getting someone like Danks--who's proven he can do it at the MLB level and still has plenty of room to grow.

My apologies, I've seen that mistake made here before. I agree with you though, as nice as Viciedo, Allen, Danks II, Hudson, Flowers, Poreda, etc. have come along none of them have done anything above AA. I can't believe the D-backs would part with Haren for a package that doesn't include guys they can plug in their everyday lineup today.

Foulke You
07-06-2009, 04:56 PM
The Sox or any other team would probably have to gut their farm system to get Dan Haren. This is unlikely to happen since it has taken the Sox a long time to rebuild the farm. There are going to be about 12 other teams that are going to be inquiring about Haren so the Dbacks can just sit back and wait for a team to blow them away with an offer. There aren't many teams that are completely out of it with good starting pitching to trade. They are in a great position to land the prospect lottery if teams come calling about Haren. The only way they'll trade him is if they get a huge offer. If not, they'll just keep their ace pitcher and build around him next year.

I would imagine getting Jon Garland from them would be a far more realistic option via trade for teams looking for starters. They would probably love to dump his 1 year $7.25 million contract on someone. However, the way Jon has thrown this year, (4W-8L, 4.81 E.R.A.) I'm not sure if he is much of an upgrade over Richard. In Jon's defense though, he is primarily a ground ball pitcher and the D'backs have been the worst defensive team in baseball this year. Garland's pitching style doesn't mesh well with a team that has a leaky defense. Not to say the Sox have a great defense but compared to the D'backs, we do. Heavier air and a better defense behind him, Jon could possibly be a decent #5 starter for someone. (Before people jump on my case about mentioning another forbidden 2005 player, I'm merely mentioning Garland as being a more attainable pitcher for the Sox than Haren.)

Konerko05
07-06-2009, 06:16 PM
I would imagine getting Jon Garland from them would be a far more realistic option via trade for teams looking for starters. They would probably love to dump his 1 year $7.25 million contract on someone. However, the way Jon has thrown this year, (4W-8L, 4.81 E.R.A.) I'm not sure if he is much of an upgrade over Richard. In Jon's defense though, he is primarily a ground ball pitcher and the D'backs have been the worst defensive team in baseball this year. Garland's pitching style doesn't mesh well with a team that has a leaky defense. Not to say the Sox have a great defense but compared to the D'backs, we do. Heavier air and a better defense behind him, Jon could possibly be a decent #5 starter for someone. (Before people jump on my case about mentioning another forbidden 2005 player, I'm merely mentioning Garland as being a more attainable pitcher for the Sox than Haren.)

Garland is a worse pitcher than Richard. There is no way the Sox would give up anything nor take on a dollar of salary to acquire him.

BB/9: 3.5
SO/9: 3.3
WHIP: 1.531
ERA: 4.81

Now imagine those numbers getting even worse in the AL. He's never been that great, but he is awful now.

Foulke You
07-06-2009, 07:06 PM
Garland is a worse pitcher than Richard. There is no way the Sox would give up anything nor take on a dollar of salary to acquire him.

BB/9: 3.5
SO/9: 3.3
WHIP: 1.531
ERA: 4.81

Now imagine those numbers getting even worse in the AL. He's never been that great, but he is awful now.
Interesting. I didn't realize Jon's Ks were down so much this year. If you take a closer look at Jon's numbers though, he has intriguing home and away splits this year:

Home:
ERA: 7.51
WHIP: 1.83
BAA: .332
HRs Allowed: 8

Away:
ERA: 2.47
WHIP: 1.27
BAA: .251
HRs Allowed: 2

The home/away splits tell me that Jon's sinker does absolutely nothing in that light Arizona air but when he gets on the road, he has been a serviceable starter. I'm not 100% convinced that he is an upgrade over Richard either but Jon's home and away splits, his lack of a long term contract, as well as the Dbacks probable desire to move him make him an intriguing option for the Sox #5 starter hole. My point was more to illustrate that the D'backs are probably more interested in moving a guy like Garland than they are a guy like Haren. As bad as Garland has been for the Dbacks, he may be an upgrade for a pitching starved team like the Brewers. I wouldn't be surprised if the D'backs found a taker for him by the deadline.

Tragg
07-06-2009, 07:54 PM
No

Most of the time that the Sox load the wagon for a single player it backfires. Ritchie, Wells, Swisher - bad (and 2 were terrible); Garcia - good. Javy - neutral.

A starting pitcher isn't close to the number 1 problem and it wouldn't turn this team into a great team or a world series contender. We'd still have little production at 2nd and CF, bad defense overall, and have to maintain a novena that Pods keeps producing.

We need our young hitters to take over for Konerko, Thome Dye and AJ in the next couple of years.

I'd look to trade guys like Fields, Anderson and maybe Getz for a player we need.

The good news is that we look refreshed and should be able to contend for a while.

doublem23
07-07-2009, 01:54 AM
I'd look to trade guys like Fields, Anderson and maybe Getz for a player we need.

What the hell are we realistically going to get for any of these guys? Even as a package, they're not worth all that much, and it just creates more depth problems at certain areas we're not as deep as we thought we were (OF, middle IF).

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-07-2009, 03:07 AM
I don't think there's a chance in hell we could land this guy unless we gave up someone like Beckham or Danks, something I know I would (and I think the Sox would) be reluctant to do. It would be nice to have a pitcher with his caliber in the rotation, but the cost I think would be too great, IMO. I don't think Richard or Colon is the answer to the 5th spot, but I would still like to see Poreda given a shot, especially if he is expected to be a starter in the future. Then if he appears not ready, or doesn't live up to expectations, go out and get a servicable, decent starter (without destroying the farm) that can help the team get over the hump and into the playoffs. I'm not saying don't trade any prospects, just not everyone that might have a future on the Sox.

Craig Grebeck
07-07-2009, 09:26 AM
What the hell are we realistically going to get for any of these guys? Even as a package, they're not worth all that much, and it just creates more depth problems at certain areas we're not as deep as we thought we were (OF, middle IF).
Piles of crap usually fetch crap (though I hate lumping in Chris with Fields and Anderson -- long term, he will hit). KW is usually great at identifying piles of crap that may actually appear to be pretty good players and selling them. I think those guys (in our system) are Allen and Carter. Just a hunch.

khan
07-07-2009, 09:42 AM
KW is usually great at identifying piles of crap that may actually appear to be pretty good players and selling them. I think those guys (in our system) are Allen and Carter. Just a hunch.

Interesting. I'm curious as to why you think this way.

Tragg
07-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Piles of crap usually fetch crap (though I hate lumping in Chris with Fields and Anderson -- long term, he will hit). KW is usually great at identifying piles of crap that may actually appear to be pretty good players and selling them. I think those guys (in our system) are Allen and Carter. Just a hunch.

He is really good at that, and if he can force them into the trade instead of the real prospects, that would be nice. I think Oak is finding that out about Chris Carter.
Fields might bring something.

kaufsox
07-07-2009, 03:05 PM
Fields might bring something.

Like what? My guess is that Fields on his own would only fetch AA or below prospects at this point. He might add a little to a package, but I doubt it would sway a team to make a deal. Getting Haren (like Halladay) will almost certainly involve parting with a solid player or two, regardless of what team trades for them.