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View Full Version : *Official* "Okay, we lost. So what." 7/4/09 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
07-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Okay, we lost. What's the big deal? The season is not over because we failed to win our eighth consecutive game. I do have concerns about Alexei not having his head in the game (again), which helped cost us today. But we were bound to lose a ballgame sooner or later.

Let's get 'em tomorrow.

NDSox12
07-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Maybe it's best that we make this thread hard to find.

DirtySox
07-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Bound to happen sooner or later.

Go get um tomorrow.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 02:57 PM
We keep hitting like this, we'll be fine. This loss isn't Alexei's fault.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 02:57 PM
Okay, we lost. What's the big deal? The season is not over because we failed to win our eighth consecutive game. I do have concerns about Alexei not having his head in the game (again), which helped cost us today. But we were bound to lose a ballgame sooner or later.

Let's get 'em tomorrow.

Alexei's incorrect defensive positioning in doubleplay situations is just as much an indictment of Guillen and Cora as himself.

Royals played a good game today.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 02:58 PM
Beltin' Bill is comparing this team to '05. So irritating... this clearly isn't 05

Viva Medias B's
07-04-2009, 02:59 PM
We keep hitting like this, we'll be fine. This loss isn't Alexei's fault.

Alexei was not the sole reason we lost, but he was the biggest reason we lost today. Ever since that play, Hawk and Stone couldn't stop talking about it. Immediately after Podsednik struck out, the first thing they showed was the Alexei play.

HomeFish
07-04-2009, 02:59 PM
We won the division last year on a tiebreaker. How can any fan of this team act as if one individual game does not matter?

In what looks to be a close division race again -- this time a three-way one too -- every game counts. And this is one the Sox could have won but didn't. It's a huge deal, and to say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

ShoelessJoeS
07-04-2009, 03:00 PM
Yea, Alexei blew the double play... but Thornton's gotta pick him up get it done.

SoxSpeed22
07-04-2009, 03:00 PM
Our defense has been ****ing brutal all season. It's a shock that our pitching has been great with this defense. These games happen, let's win tomorrow.

ndgt10
07-04-2009, 03:00 PM
This loss is 100% on Alexei Ramirez. I would bench him for a week at least.

ilsox7
07-04-2009, 03:01 PM
This loss is 100% on Alexei Ramirez. I would bench him for a week at least.



Word on the post game show is the Sox have DFA-ed him.

Viva Medias B's
07-04-2009, 03:01 PM
This loss is 100% on Alexei Ramirez. I would bench him for a week at least.




Alexei = Rex Grossman to many a WSIer?

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Thank you very much, Alexei!

LITTLE NELL
07-04-2009, 03:01 PM
I wanted 3 out of 4 from KC so just win Sunday.

Tragg
07-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Players make mistakes
The team didn't get a hit the last few innings.

Good job, Oz, in not pinch-hitting for your lead-off quality, "tremendous" .197 hitter.

Viva Medias B's
07-04-2009, 03:02 PM
Word on the post game show is the Sox have DFA-ed him.

Surely, you can't be serious.

JB98
07-04-2009, 03:02 PM
Floyd didn't have good stuff today. Even in the first four innings, where he put up zeroes, his ball-to-strike ratio was not good. He was deep in counts. It's not surprising the Royals started to hit him as the game progressed. He was due for a rough outing, and this was it.

Usually, when you give up an extra out, you can expect to get beat. Thornton got beat on a bloop hit, but he shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

It's widely known here that I'm not fond of Alexei's defense at shortstop. He never seems to be in control on the double-play turn. Brian26 makes a good point about the defensive positioning, though. How many times are the Sox going to allow themselves to get burned like that? Inexcusable to not get a double play turned on the slow-footed Jose Guillen.

ShoelessJoeS
07-04-2009, 03:02 PM
This loss is 100% on Alexei Ramirez. I would bench him for a week at least.
I don't know if that's the right approach to take. But if they're going to continue to trot him out to SS, somebody on the coaching staff needs to teach him how to play that position.

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2009, 03:02 PM
This is probably the worst White Sox Post poll in a long time!

"Who would you give up to get Soriano?"

***?!

Tragg
07-04-2009, 03:04 PM
Brian26 makes a good point about the defensive positioning, though.
Who's in charge of that?

The Sox also ran into an out on the bases in the first inning that likely would have scored.

We only scored 4 runs today.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 03:04 PM
This is probably the worst White Sox Post poll in a long time!

"Who would you give up to get Soriano?"

***?!
I wouldn't give up the night janitor for him.

spongyfungy
07-04-2009, 03:04 PM
This is probably the worst White Sox Post poll in a long time!

"Who would you give up to get Soriano?"

***?!

I loved how they spelled it "avalibale"

JB98
07-04-2009, 03:04 PM
Players make mistakes
The team didn't get a hit the last few innings.

Good job, Oz, in not pinch-hitting for your lead-off quality, "tremendous" .197 hitter.

I wouldn't have pinch-hit for Wise either. In a one-run game, yes, use Thome for Wise. But not in a two-run game.

You want to try to get somebody on before you use Thome. It didn't work out, but Ozzie played that situation correctly.

If you want to criticize Ozzie, criticize the defensive positioning in the infield in double-play situations.

spongyfungy
07-04-2009, 03:05 PM
Who's in charge of that?



Bill Melton said Joey Cora

doublem23
07-04-2009, 03:05 PM
His career splits don't support this, but since he's come to the Sox, Gavin's just had problems when there are men on. When the bases are empty, he's just filthy, but as soon as a runner gets on base he seems to struggle; I don't know if it's his windup v. stretch or whatever, but that's just the way it's been for him...

2009
Bases empty: .226/.281/.289
Runners on: .280/.366/.441

The walk ratio is most alarming, when the bases are empty this year, he's walked 17 batters in 253 PA (14.9 PA/BB) vs. runners on 21 BB in 184 PA (8.76 PA/BB)

Oh well.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 03:06 PM
We won the division last year on a tiebreaker. How can any fan of this team act as if one individual game does not matter?

In what looks to be a close division race again -- this time a three-way one too -- every game counts. And this is one the Sox could have won but didn't. It's a huge deal, and to say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

This argument becomes invalid when you begin taking into account all of the games, over the course of a 162-game season, that the Sox will end up winning that, maybe, they didn't deserve to win.

The important thing, over the long haul, is to win more close games than you lose. Harping over one loss takes out of context the grand picture of the season.

DumpJerry
07-04-2009, 03:06 PM
:chickenlittle
Season over.

Viva Medias B's
07-04-2009, 03:06 PM
We've won seven of our last eight, and some people are acting like it's the end of the world. Relax, people. I'm as frustrated as you are with Alexei, and I think his problems at short need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Nevertheless, I am not going to panic over this loss today.

doublem23
07-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Players make mistakes
The team didn't get a hit the last few innings.

Good job, Oz, in not pinch-hitting for your lead-off quality, "tremendous" .197 hitter.

I'm sure it was more for the lefty-lefty-lefty setup the Thome for Anderson pinch hit allowed against the righty Soria, but really, what good does Thome do in a 2-run game with the bases empty? You pray Wise gets on/hit a homer (he almost did) and then Thome is a in a big position to make some damage.

ilsox7
07-04-2009, 03:07 PM
This argument becomes invalid when you begin taking into account all of the games, over the course of a 162-game season, that the Sox will end up winning that, maybe, they didn't deserve to win.

The important thing, over the long haul, is to win more close games than you lose. Harping over one loss takes out of context the grand picture of the season.

So, what you're saying is that you're intellectually dishonest? :cool:

JB98
07-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Who's in charge of that?

The Sox also ran into an out on the bases in the first inning that likely would have scored.

We only scored 4 runs today.

Cora, I believe.

But Ozzie and Cora are both former middle infielders. I put it on both of them. Alexei needs some instruction right now. Ozzie has said he's committed to Alexei at shortstop. Fine. Let's help Alexei get better in that area of his game.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 03:09 PM
After looking at the bottom of the order today, is it possible we can just take a mirror image and make the bottom of the order the top of the order

HomeFish
07-04-2009, 03:09 PM
This argument becomes invalid when you begin taking into account all of the games, over the course of a 162-game season, that the Sox will end up winning that, maybe, they didn't deserve to win.

The important thing, over the long haul, is to win more close games than you lose. Harping over one loss takes out of context the grand picture of the season.

Would you prefer that the team end up being in charge of its own fate, or that the team is entirely dependent on freak events?

Last year we won on a freak event (the Twins laying an egg against KC in the last week). This year we might not be so lucky.

The Sox are going to lose occasionally, I certainly don't disagree with that. But I hate it how people at WSI try to sugar-coat each loss.

ohthosechisox
07-04-2009, 03:09 PM
This loss sucks because the Sox clearly beat themselves; however, it's more important to win tomorrow's game and take the series.

Hopefully the Tigers and Twins can now have another game that goes well into extras. :tongue:

doublem23
07-04-2009, 03:11 PM
This loss is 100% on Alexei Ramirez. I would bench him for a week at least.



Ridiculous, we ran into at least 2 outs today at 2B. This new, aggressive Sox team is nice to see but this is the cost of being aggressive on the basepaths, occasionally you shoot yourself in the foot. Either deal with that or tone it back down a bit.

:shrug:

It's one ****in' game people, get a grip.

doublem23
07-04-2009, 03:12 PM
Would you prefer that the team end up being in charge of its own fate, or that the team is entirely dependent on freak events?

Last year we won on a freak event (the Twins laying an egg against KC in the last week). This year we might not be so lucky.

The Sox are going to lose occasionally, I certainly don't disagree with that. But I hate it how people at WSI try to sugar-coat each loss.

I hate it how people here try to make 1 game (.6% of the entire season) more than it is.

We just won 7 games, will be in 2nd place alone when this day ends regardless of what happens in Minnesota. Things are good right now. Chill the hell out.

kittle42
07-04-2009, 03:13 PM
We won the division last year on a tiebreaker. How can any fan of this team act as if one individual game does not matter?

In what looks to be a close division race again -- this time a three-way one too -- every game counts. And this is one the Sox could have won but didn't. It's a huge deal, and to say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

If the Sox went 161-1, and that loss was the last day of the season, and they were playing all the September callups, you would call for the Sox to get swept in the first round.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 03:13 PM
Ridiculous, we ran into at least 2 outs today at 2B.

You know what's funny...Over the past three days, we've had three runners called out at 2nd Base that actually got their foot in before the tag (AJ twice, PK today).

Konerko05
07-04-2009, 03:13 PM
Last year everyone talked about how smart Alexei Ramirez was on the baseball field. What happened to him?

ilsox7
07-04-2009, 03:15 PM
Last year everyone talked about how smart Alexei Ramirez was on the baseball field. What happened to him?

This is his first half season playing SS in MLB. It is a much more difficult position than 2B. The speed of the game at this level is like no other he has seen before. These mistakes suck and should not happen, but they will happen with virtually every young ballplayer.

PhillipsBubba
07-04-2009, 03:16 PM
Alexei's incorrect defensive positioning in doubleplay situations is just as much an indictment of Guillen and Cora as himself.

You are correct, Sir!

This isn't the first time AR's positioning caused problems on the double play.

Is Ozzie afraid of damaging AR's tender sensibilities???

That said...I'm very encouraged by the recent play of Our Heroes. Here's hoping it continues.:gulp:

Tragg
07-04-2009, 03:16 PM
I'm sure it was more for the lefty-lefty-lefty setup the Thome for Anderson pinch hit allowed against the righty Soria, but really, what good does Thome do in a 2-run game with the bases empty? You pray Wise gets on/hit a homer (he almost did) and then Thome is a in a big position to make some damage.
You put Fields in there, a much better hitter against righties (or lefties) than Wise. Now maybe we wouldn't have enough outfielders left (or infielders if you move Nix to the OF). That's also a reason why you don't waste a player via a neutral pinch hitter, like Nix for Getz.
You should never put yourself in the position of having the worst hitter on the 40 man bat in the 9th inning when losing.

Giving up runs on the basepaths doesn't help either.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 03:16 PM
Last year everyone talked about how smart Alexei Ramirez was on the baseball field. What happened to him?

He's a good baseball player. His mechanics are really smart. He's playing a tougher position, though...so maybe that's it

parlaycard
07-04-2009, 03:17 PM
Alexei's incorrect defensive positioning in doubleplay situations is just as much an indictment of Guillen and Cora as himself. .

exactly correct

If Alexei is going to continually play lazy defense. Then Ozzie needs to call a time out, walk out to short, take Alexei by the hand, and walk him to where he is to be positioned.

If that doesnt work, he can watch Nix play SS.

Sox
07-04-2009, 03:18 PM
I wanted 3 out of 4 from KC so just win Sunday.

Agreed LN :thumbsup:

:gosox:

Soxman219
07-04-2009, 03:18 PM
Relax, people we were going to lose eventually. If the Twins win today, we are still in second, if we won today, we are still in second. No matter what happened today we would still be in second. Let's beat them tomorrow and head home.

kittle42
07-04-2009, 03:19 PM
The Sox are going to lose occasionally, I certainly don't disagree with that. But I hate it how people at WSI try to sugar-coat each loss.

Funny comment from a guy who like to **** all over every win.

JB98
07-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Last year everyone talked about how smart Alexei Ramirez was on the baseball field. What happened to him?

Maybe we all underestimated the importance of Cabrera's veteran presence in the middle of the infield last year. Ramirez has two rookies playing alongside him this year. It's obviously been a little tougher for him, now that he's the "veteran" of the group.

Not that I want Cabrera back. He's at the end of his career. But we have an inexperienced infield, and all the pains that go along with that are present. We just have to live with it and hope they get better.

I do think the team is better now than it was in early May. But there's obviously still a lot of work to be done. Games like today remind you of that.

MarySwiss
07-04-2009, 03:19 PM
I hate it how people here try to make 1 game (.6% of the entire season) more than it is.

We just won 7 games, will be in 2nd place alone when this day ends regardless of what happens in Minnesota. Things are good right now. Chill the hell out.

Exactly, Doub! No Sox fan ever likes to see them lose, but it's not like they were going to run the table!

Let's get the game tomorrow and then beat up on the Tribe and Twinkies, and all will be good!:D:

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 03:20 PM
Plus side, there's a great Nancy Faust special on. We're lucky to have her.

kittle42
07-04-2009, 03:20 PM
Turn on MLB Network and enjoy hearing Hawk say "He gone" after Rudy Law just got caught stealing.

cws05champ
07-04-2009, 03:20 PM
exactly correct

If Alexei is going to continually play lazy defense. Then Ozzie needs to call a time out, walk out to short, take Alexei by the hand, and walk him to where he is to be positioned.

If that doesnt work, he can watch Nix play SS.

Can someone paint a picture of what happened with Alexei today? The game was on on TV down here and I missed it.

Dick Allen
07-04-2009, 03:20 PM
As mentioned, one of the outs the Sox ran into on the bases was a horrible call on PK. What makes the loss tough to take is because KC is awful. Though it's not realistic to assume we're just going to win all our games against them, this game was eminently winnable.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 03:21 PM
Would you prefer that the team end up being in charge of its own fate, or that the team is entirely dependent on freak events?

Last year we won on a freak event (the Twins laying an egg against KC in the last week). This year we might not be so lucky.

The Sox are going to lose occasionally, I certainly don't disagree with that. But I hate it how people at WSI try to sugar-coat each loss.

You could also say that we won last year because we kicked Detroit's ass thoroughly and consistently all season long.

My point, which you aren't grasping, is that you cannot cherry-pick one victory or loss from a 162-game marathon and put too much emphasis on it. This even applies to Game #163.

If they would have lost Game #163, the real blame could have gone to their tanking in Minnesota two weeks earlier.

Konerko05
07-04-2009, 03:22 PM
He's a good baseball player. His mechanics are really smart. He's playing a tougher position, though...so maybe that's it

It's common sense to move closer to the bag in a double play situation. This is not the first time this has happened either.

If people on this message board know where Alexei should have been positioned, he should know. He is a 27 year old playing in the MLB. There is simply no excuse. I blame Guillen and Cora as well. You would think a team coached by middle infielders would have been on top of this a long time ago.

Bill Naharodny
07-04-2009, 03:23 PM
Floyd didn't have good stuff today. Even in the first four innings, where he put up zeroes, his ball-to-strike ratio was not good. He was deep in counts. It's not surprising the Royals started to hit him as the game progressed. He was due for a rough outing, and this was it.

Usually, when you give up an extra out, you can expect to get beat. Thornton got beat on a bloop hit, but he shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

It's widely known here that I'm not fond of Alexei's defense at shortstop. He never seems to be in control on the double-play turn. Brian26 makes a good point about the defensive positioning, though. How many times are the Sox going to allow themselves to get burned like that? Inexcusable to not get a double play turned on the slow-footed Jose Guillen.

I think he cheats to his right because he has so little range in that direction. He had the same problem last year at 2nd; very good range to his left, very little to his right.

JB98
07-04-2009, 03:24 PM
You put Fields in there, a much better hitter against righties (or lefties) than Wise. Now maybe we wouldn't have enough outfielders left (or infielders if you move Nix to the OF). That's also a reason why you don't waste a player via a neutral pinch hitter, like Nix for Getz.
You should never put yourself in the position of having the worst hitter on the 40 man bat in the 9th inning when losing.

Giving up runs on the basepaths doesn't help either.

I liked the move to use Nix for Getz. The Sox were down 5-4 at the time. You have a lefty on the mound, with no righty ready in the bullpen. Nix has shown a lot of extra-base power in limited ABs this year. Take a shot there. Why not?

I think you gotta go balls out to try to tie the score in the eighth against a pitcher such as Bale. Once you get to Soria in the ninth, you're in trouble. Even good hitters like Thome and Pods looked bad against Soria.

Again, Ozzie made the right moves with the pinch-hitters. They just didn't work. I agreed with everything he did.

It's Dankerific
07-04-2009, 03:24 PM
Honestly, people should just enjoy the winning we've been doing lately. If you want to be worried, look at our 2nd half schedule compared to our division rivals. we got yankees and rays and boston, etc. Thats going to be tough....

For now, enjoy WINNING.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 03:25 PM
exactly correct

If Alexei is going to continually play lazy defense. Then Ozzie needs to call a time out, walk out to short, take Alexei by the hand, and walk him to where he is to be positioned.

If that doesnt work, he can watch Nix play SS.

And it's not even about the situation, but it's about knowing the tendencies of the hitter in the box, the speed of the runner on first base, if the infield plays fast or slow, etc. TCM's only played in the league for one year so far.

If Cora and Guillen aren't doing their homework, TCM doesn't have a chance.

JB98
07-04-2009, 03:26 PM
I think he cheats to his right because he has so little range in that direction. He had the same problem last year at 2nd; very good range to his left, very little to his right.

Good point, but would you agree that he shouldn't be cheating like that in DP situations? With nobody on base, I think it's OK to cheat a little bit. But not with runners on first and second and no outs.

kittle42
07-04-2009, 03:26 PM
If you want to be worried, look at our 2nd half schedule compared to our division rivals. we got yankees and rays and boston, etc. Thats going to be tough....

All the more reason to win all these games!

Brian26
07-04-2009, 03:26 PM
Turn on MLB Network and enjoy hearing Hawk say "He gone" after Rudy Law just got caught stealing.

I love the catch that Baines makes in the 9th in this game.

Tragg
07-04-2009, 03:27 PM
My point, which you aren't grasping, is that you cannot cherry-pick one victory or loss from a 162-game marathon and put too much emphasis on it. This even applies to Game #163.

That's certainly true. But our give-away games are mounting. We gave away 2 to Detroit, for example, in that 5 game series; we gave one to Oakland. Just as I remember. Texas gave that Friday game in Arlington to us.

Anway, it happens, just can't stew on it.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2009, 03:28 PM
Well this is a trade off for winning the Greinke game.


Still a few notes:

- Alexei has cost us way too many games with the glove at SS so far this year.
- Gavin was awful today. He couldn't get a curve ball over and was 3-1 2-0 on almost every batter.
- Thornton is not missing too many bats lately. Allowing too many inherited runners to score.
- Base running. For as much as most here like being aggresive, we have ran ourselves out of big innings too often during this hot streak. When games get close and tight, these runners become a big deal.

Bill Naharodny
07-04-2009, 03:28 PM
Good point, but would you agree that he shouldn't be cheating like that in DP situations? With nobody on base, I think it's OK to cheat a little bit. But not with runners on first and second and no outs.

Totally agree. In fact, when you play 2nd and lack range to the right, you can continue to cheat in DP situations, because you need to be closer to the bag anyway. Not so at short.

Konerko05
07-04-2009, 03:32 PM
Maybe we all underestimated the importance of Cabrera's veteran presence in the middle of the infield last year. Ramirez has two rookies playing alongside him this year. It's obviously been a little tougher for him, now that he's the "veteran" of the group.

Not that I want Cabrera back. He's at the end of his career. But we have an inexperienced infield, and all the pains that go along with that are present. We just have to live with it and hope they get better.

I do think the team is better now than it was in early May. But there's obviously still a lot of work to be done. Games like today remind you of that.

You're exactly right about Cabrera and I even mentioned the same thing to my friend after the game.

But something tells me Beckham at 22 wouldn't be making the same mental mistakes at SS. I'm just not sure Alexei is cut out to play SS mentally. Decent range and great arm, but he seems to lack baseball intelligence.

ilsox7
07-04-2009, 03:33 PM
You're exactly right about Cabrera and I even mentioned the same thing to my friend after the game.

But something tells me Beckham at 22 wouldn't be making the same mental mistakes at SS. I'm just not sure Alexei is cut out to play SS mentally. Decent range and great arm, but he seems to lack baseball intelligence.

What makes you think Beckham would not make these mental mistakes? He has already made at least 2 on the bases in the last week.

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2009, 03:34 PM
You're exactly right about Cabrera and I even mentioned the same thing to my friend after the game.

But something tells me Beckham at 22 wouldn't be making the same mental mistakes at SS. I'm just not sure Alexei is cut out to play SS mentally. Decent range and great arm, but he seems to lack baseball intelligence.
But, but, but...according to Hawk during tons of broadcasts last season, "Alexei has the smartest baseball sense on this team."

OmahaSoxFan
07-04-2009, 03:35 PM
I wasn't expecting the Sox to do much against Greinke yesterday, and surprise we got a W. Today, it was bound to catch up to us eventually. Another solid hitting performance from Bacon, but it wasn't enough to help us out. Go get 'em tomorrow guys, getting sweeps on the road isn't easy, and if we win tomorrow its still 3 out of 4, not too shabby, especially with the home set against the Injuns coming up next week.

It's Dankerific
07-04-2009, 03:35 PM
What makes yo uthink Beckham would not make these mental mistakes? He has already made at least 2 on the bases in the last week.

Bacon doesn't seem to make the same mistakes twice. Also, he's shown more sense learning a completely new position than the guy supposedly moving back into his comfort zone.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2009, 03:36 PM
But, but, but...according to Hawk during tons of broadcasts last season, "Alexei has the smartest baseball sense on this team."

I think Hawk has taken a 180 on him. He was all over him today for that play.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2009, 03:39 PM
Bacon doesn't seem to make the same mistakes twice. Also, he's shown more sense learning a completely new position than the guy supposedly moving back into his comfort zone.

OT:

Can I nominate this as the most annoying White Sox nickname ever?


For a guy who has the potential to be a future All Star, I think we can do much better than that. Ozzie's botched English should not go into it.

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2009, 03:42 PM
OT:

Can I nominate this as the most annoying White Sox nickname ever?


For a guy who has the potential to be a future All Star, I think we can do much better than that. Ozzie's botched English should not go into it.
I disagree. This is a great nickname!

DickAllen72
07-04-2009, 03:48 PM
OT:

Can I nominate this as the most annoying White Sox nickname ever?


For a guy who has the potential to be a future All Star, I think we can do much better than that. Ozzie's botched English should not go into it.
How about G-Beck?

cws05champ
07-04-2009, 03:56 PM
OT:

Can I nominate this as the most annoying White Sox nickname ever?


For a guy who has the potential to be a future All Star, I think we can do much better than that. Ozzie's botched English should not go into it.

He has Ham right in his name; BeckHAM Might as well be Bacon...one pork or the other!!

Tragg
07-04-2009, 03:58 PM
OT:

Can I nominate this as the most annoying White Sox nickname ever?


For a guy who has the potential to be a future All Star, I think we can do much better than that. Ozzie's botched English should not go into it.
Seconded

It's a terrible nickname.

Whitesoxfan23
07-04-2009, 04:28 PM
Bacon is an awful nickname. Sounds stupid.

It's Dankerific
07-04-2009, 04:32 PM
Isn't there a whole thread about BAcon and his nickname?

Until BA comes out against BAcon, Its good enough for me!

doublem23
07-04-2009, 04:35 PM
Bacon is an awful nickname. Sounds stupid.

Then don't use it. :shrug:

Noneck
07-04-2009, 04:53 PM
Cora, I believe.

But Ozzie and Cora are both former middle infielders. I put it on both of them. Alexei needs some instruction right now. Ozzie has said he's committed to Alexei at shortstop. Fine. Let's help Alexei get better in that area of his game.

Too bad according to some here that is not possible. The time for instruction is the minor leagues and spring training. By the time you get to the bigs its too late to learn how to bunt, hold runners and now this. That's not the role of the big league coaching staff I have been told.

JB98
07-04-2009, 05:00 PM
Too bad according to some here that is not possible. The time for instruction is the minor leagues and spring training. By the time you get to the bigs its too late to learn how to bunt, hold runners and now this. That's not the role of the big league coaching staff I have been told.

This seems like a fairly minor adjustment, too.

You have Jose Guillen at the plate, a strong right-handed hitter. I don't have his spray chart in front of me, but I imagine he pulls the ball a lot. In non-DP situations, it makes sense to cheat over toward the hole between short and third. In fact, it may even be smart to do that.

But with runners on first and second and no outs, you gotta forget about that and play at double-play depth. It's nothing more than understanding situations, and inexperienced players need to be reminded of those things from time to time. Ramirez seems to need more reminders than most.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2009, 05:00 PM
Then don't use it. :shrug:

Just curious, has anyone in the media mention this to Gordon?

If he is fine with it, then I would run with it.

It just sounds lame calling a guy a piece of pork fat.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 05:01 PM
Too bad according to some here that is not possible. The time for instruction is the minor leagues and spring training. By the time you get to the bigs its too late to learn how to bunt, hold runners and now this. That's not the role of the big league coaching staff I have been told.

There's a difference between instruction on how to play a position and help in defensive positioning based on a particular hitter's tendencies or a particular runner's speed or a particular game situation. The latter is a dynamic element that changes inning-by-inning and batter to batter.

Noneck
07-04-2009, 05:05 PM
This seems like a fairly minor adjustment, too.

You have Jose Guillen at the plate, a strong right-handed hitter. I don't have his spray chart in front of me, but I imagine he pulls the ball a lot. In non-DP situations, it makes sense to cheat over toward the hole between short and third. In fact, it may even be smart to do that.

But with runners on first and second and no outs, you gotta forget about that and play at double-play depth. It's nothing more than understanding situations, and inexperienced players need to be reminded of those things from time to time. Ramirez seems to need more reminders than most.

I understand what was needed, the coaching staff whistles, yells out Ramirez and when his attention is gotten, a hand gesture showing him where to play. It happens daily in every little league game.

TomBradley72
07-04-2009, 05:07 PM
There is absolutely no way I am looking to give up on TCM at SS....he's a 2nd year major leaguer, 1st year major league SS...I'm willing to give him time to learn, adjust, etc. As far as positioning goes...yes it's partly his fault...but where the hell were Ozzie and Cora? Step out of the dugout and move him over if he's out of position.

If Floyd and Thornton do their jobs...it does not turn the game around. TCM is delivering solid offense...and I think he'll come along. I'll still take Beckham/TCM for the left side over Fields/Beckham any day of the week.
He has cost us some games on defense....but he also has made some great plays that have won us some games, and I think he still brings ALOT of upside potential, and keep in mind he's a bargain at SS for the next 3.5 years...so as long as Getz and Beckham look good at their positions, it's in our best interest if he stabilizes and realizes his potential as SS.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 05:34 PM
It just sounds lame calling a guy a piece of pork fat.
POTW. We can't come up with anything reflecting how awesome the young man has played?

It's Dankerific
07-04-2009, 05:47 PM
It just sounds lame calling a guy a piece of pork fat.

POTW. We can't come up with anything reflecting how awesome the young man has played?

To say Bacon is just a piece of pork fat is like calling the Mona Lisa just a painting. The Taj Mahal just a house.

Bacon is the pinnacle of human acheivement when it comes to food. It is a compliment, indeed.

Shoeless
07-04-2009, 06:16 PM
In that case, I'd rather call him Mona Lisa

FarWestChicago
07-04-2009, 06:25 PM
This is a great night for the Clouds. Fish and Tragg are partying. Has anybody seen Master Lip?

http://www.chicagonow.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-static/support/assets_c/2009/05/Lip-1thumb-thumb-220x220-854.jpg

There is no try. There is only fail!

hawkjt
07-04-2009, 06:28 PM
Thornton has given up at least 3 big hits to lose games..all to rightys.
He is deadly vs lefties but for some reason rightys are able to make contact and get a lot of ducksnorts..ouch.
Gavin was not real sharp today,but had enough to get a win if the bullpen does it's job. 8 great starts in a row and he finally has a marginal one, and the bullpen cannot pick him up...stinks.

On the Alexei play, I can only imagine that he is playing exactly where joey wants him...if not, that is on them..if so, that is on them.
Just a damn shame. I have felt the sox have been a tad sloppy on the bases lately..getting thrown out way too much of late..aggression is good but please pick your spots and never against Miguel Olivo.
PK's was a bad call so I cannot nail him..but too many gambles going to second against Olivos arm...
Sox had a chance to put this game away but could not get that big hit..to put them away.
Hate losing to those chumps..they will crumble vs twins and tigers...we must dominate them to stay even.

TDog
07-04-2009, 06:37 PM
Thornton has given up at least 3 big hits to lose games..all to rightys.
He is deadly vs lefties but for some reason rightys are able to make contact and get a lot of ducksnorts..ouch.
Gavin was not real sharp today,but had enough to get a win if the bullpen does it's job. 8 great starts in a row and he finally has a marginal one, and the bullpen cannot pick him up...stinks.

On the Alexei play, I can only imagine that he is playing exactly where joey wants him...if not, that is on them..if so, that is on them.
Just a damn shame. I have felt the sox have been a tad sloppy on the bases lately..getting thrown out way too much of late..aggression is good but please pick your spots and never against Miguel Olivo.
PK's was a bad call so I cannot nail him..but too many gambles going to second against Olivos arm...
Sox had a chance to put this game away but could not get that big hit..to put them away.
Hate losing to those chumps..they will crumble vs twins and tigers...we must dominate them to stay even.

This is the only post I have read in this thread, thanks to my going to the last page first. I am especially impressed with your take on the Ramirez positioning issue. I was thinking the same thing. Of course, I pretty much agree with you throughout.

I would go back and read the posts in this thread from the beginning, but I'm guessing they aren't as rational and well thought-out.

russ99
07-04-2009, 06:54 PM
This loss is 100% on Alexei Ramirez. I would bench him for a week at least.



Oh please. Those two hits just fell in.

I prefer to put this one on the offense for not hitting the last 3 innings.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2009, 07:20 PM
Ozzie is quoted as saying Ramirez was playing where he was "out of respect for Guillen's ability to pull a pitch"

Maybe Floyd threw the wrong pitch for the defensive alignment?

Lip

hawkjt
07-04-2009, 07:31 PM
Ozzie is quoted as saying Ramirez was playing where he was "out of respect for Guillen's ability to pull a pitch"

Maybe Floyd threw the wrong pitch for the defensive alignment?

Lip

Sounds like Ozzie and Hawk need a sit-down...and Ozzie can splain it to the hawkeroo.

Chicken Dinner
07-04-2009, 07:56 PM
Sounds like Ozzie and Hawk need a sit-down...and Ozzie can splain it to the hawkeroo.

Does Hawk understand Ozzie talk? :smile:

TommyJohn
07-04-2009, 08:36 PM
Does Hawk understand Ozzie talk? :smile:Better yet, does Ozzie understand Hawk talk?

chisox77
07-04-2009, 08:46 PM
The White Sox will start another winning streak tomorrow.

The Immigrant
07-04-2009, 08:52 PM
Floyd didn't have it today. Oh well, get 'em tomorrow.

Zisk77
07-04-2009, 09:35 PM
I was at the game today and i have 2 things to note.

1. It shouldn't have mattered how deep alexei was playing because the ball was hit so slow that he should have been their waiting for the throw. Since i was watching the flight of the ball an not alexie I don't know if he broke late or took his sweet time getting their.

2. Thornton made a great pitch to callaspo. His flare was so soft it wouldn't have broke tissue paper. unfortunately matt's 98 mph propelled the ball just out of the infield.

jabrch
07-04-2009, 10:52 PM
Alexei's incorrect defensive positioning in doubleplay situations is just as much an indictment of Guillen and Cora as himself.

Royals played a good game today.

I'd say moreso...

The coaches are responsible for making sure players are positioned correctly. I know the player has a role in it, but ultimately it is the coaches responsibility.

kitekrazy
07-05-2009, 12:38 AM
I don't know if that's the right approach to take. But if they're going to continue to trot him out to SS, somebody on the coaching staff needs to teach him how to play that position.

Is it that difficult from playing SS in Cuba than it is MLB?

kitekrazy
07-05-2009, 12:42 AM
We've won seven of our last eight, and some people are acting like it's the end of the world. Relax, people. I'm as frustrated as you are with Alexei, and I think his problems at short need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Nevertheless, I am not going to panic over this loss today.

They didn't lose a game in the standings. Despite Alexi being a bonehead, Floyd wasn't getting the ball over either.

There's nothing like Dotel putting a loss on ice.

kitekrazy
07-05-2009, 12:44 AM
Cora, I believe.

But Ozzie and Cora are both former middle infielders. I put it on both of them. Alexei needs some instruction right now. Ozzie has said he's committed to Alexei at shortstop. Fine. Let's help Alexei get better in that area of his game.

I don't. He was a SS before coming to the majors.

Nellie_Fox
07-05-2009, 01:08 AM
Despite Alexi being a bonehead...I can't understand why so many Sox fans still get his name wrong.

ilsox7
07-05-2009, 01:36 AM
Is it that difficult from playing SS in Cuba than it is MLB?

Uh, yea. The difference in the speed of the game at the MLB level and any other level is significant. Why do people not understand this?

oeo
07-05-2009, 01:43 AM
Gavin was not real sharp today,but had enough to get a win if the bullpen does it's job.

Gavin was extremely lucky he only gave up 5 runs. He had zero command, and it finally bit him in the butt.

Oh well, can't win them all. Go get 'em tomorrow.

I can't understand why so many Sox fans still get his name wrong.

Buehrle has been here for almost 10 years, and people still can't spell his name right.

Mohoney
07-05-2009, 05:35 AM
Thornton had an uncharacteristically un-Thornton-esque day. That is all.

Mohoney
07-05-2009, 05:46 AM
Gavin was not real sharp today,but had enough to get a win if the bullpen does it's job. 8 great starts in a row and he finally has a marginal one, and the bullpen cannot pick him up...stinks.

I do agree with this. Gavin Floyd is the only reason that the previous homestand didn't turn into a completely irreconcilable debacle. It would have been really nice to see Thornton do his usual thing, but he happened to give up a double.