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View Full Version : Did Kenny try to acquire Nate McLouth?


JermaineDye05
07-03-2009, 07:47 PM
I was watching CTL and Kaplan (yes, not the most reliable source) said "The Sox tried to get Nate McLouth, they tried to get Nyjer Morgan, but the GM from the Pirates doesn't want to help the Sox because he came from the Indians so he's loyal to Mark Shapiro."

This was the first I heard of this. Does Kaplan not know what the hell he's talking about with the Sox again? Or does his statement hold water?

35th and Shields
07-03-2009, 07:51 PM
I never heard that either until today.

I could see some truth to it but I don't think the pirates would've turned Kenny down if we were offering the best deal.

SoxGirl4Life
07-03-2009, 07:51 PM
I was watching CTL and Kaplan (yes, not the most reliable source) said "The Sox tried to get Nate McLouth, they tried to get Nyjer Morgan, but the GM from the Pirates doesn't want to help the Sox because he came from the Indians so he's loyal to Mark Shapiro."

This was the first I heard of this. Does Kaplan not know what the hell he's talking about with the Sox again? Or does his statement hold water?

Kaplan is a dork. He has the exclusive on this how? If this was true the newspaper vultures would have gobbled this up by now.

Dick Allen
07-03-2009, 08:04 PM
It would certainly make sense that KW would have at least looked into acquiring McLouth. But if the Pirates GM would use loyalty to Shapiro as an excuse to not deal with the Sox, then he is a loser and the Pirates deserve everything they get.

NardiWasHere
07-03-2009, 08:37 PM
When I heard him say this, I got so pissed.

How would you feel if you were a Pirate fan and your GM refused to deal with a GM out of loyalty to his former emoyer?

LoveYourSuit
07-03-2009, 08:55 PM
It would certainly make sense that KW would have at least looked into acquiring McLouth. But if the Pirates GM would use loyalty to Shapiro as an excuse to not deal with the Sox, then he is a loser and the Pirates deserve everything they get.

Yeah. If that's a fact, he should get fired today.

Brian26
07-03-2009, 08:55 PM
When I heard him say this, I got so pissed.

How would you feel if you were a Pirate fan and your GM refused to deal with a GM out of loyalty to his former emoyer?

I wouldn't get upset over, at the core, what is a ridiculous statement.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-03-2009, 08:55 PM
It would certainly make sense that KW would have at least looked into acquiring McLouth. But if the Pirates GM would use loyalty to Shapiro as an excuse to not deal with the Sox, then he is a loser and the Pirates deserve everything they get.

Yep. Another team's GM having loyalty to a different team is pathetic.

LoveYourSuit
07-03-2009, 09:04 PM
Hey, know that I think of it, it's almost as dumb as Management wasting draft picks on bad family memembers.

:tongue:

Domeshot17
07-03-2009, 09:18 PM
If true wouldn't this constitute collusion?

soxfan43
07-03-2009, 09:24 PM
Kaplan is a moron. If I remember right, the buzz was that McClouth wasn't even really being shopped but the Braves offer blew them away so they took it. And maybe a GM might try to help out a former boss or coworker but no way he'd flat out refuse a deal to a rival of a former boss if it helped his current team. Plus why would Kenny go after Morgan right now? Where would he play? Pods has CF on lockdown when TCQ comes back. Another brilliant report by Kaplan.

JermaineDye05
07-03-2009, 09:55 PM
The reason I don't buy what Kaplan said is because the Pirates GM has been known to deal with the Cubs. Why would he deal with a division rival and not deal to a team that is in the same division as his previous team?

getonbckthr
07-03-2009, 09:56 PM
The reason I don't buy what Kaplan said is because the Pirates GM has been known to deal with the Cubs. Why would he deal with a division rival and not deal to a team that is in the same division as his previous team?
i'm pretty sure its a different GM isn't it?

JermaineDye05
07-03-2009, 10:11 PM
i'm pretty sure its a different GM isn't it?

If it is then it makes no sense, I was just assuming there.

DSpivack
07-03-2009, 10:39 PM
I wouldn't believe Dave Kaplan if he said the sky was blue.

NLaloosh
07-03-2009, 11:09 PM
I don't care whether he did or not. McLouth is a real good player but the Braves paid dearly for him. They gave away quite a bit of good young talent.

Would you have wanted the Sox to trade Jordan Danks, Aaron Poreda and Dan Hudson for McLouth ?

I think that's about what it would have taken to get him. I think that I would pass on that.

slavko
07-03-2009, 11:34 PM
Ignorant speculation about collusion based on X knew Y once upon a time. If he's wrong it's slander. Kaplan has descended to the IQ level of some TV and radio talk shows.

jabrch
07-03-2009, 11:37 PM
Kenny probably "tries" to acquire nearly anyone available. But that is the job of a GM. He needs to know who is available, and at what price. He needs to know how GMs look at his players also.

doublem23
07-04-2009, 01:58 AM
I don't know if this is true or not but thank god we didn't pick up either of these two bums, McLouth and Morgan are nice players, but they're nothing special. They'd be riding the pine as soon as TCQ gets healthy.

thedudeabides
07-04-2009, 02:16 AM
It's hard to believe Kaplan would even try to pawn this garbage off. Why would a GM try to protect another GM in a different league? The Braves are still competition for the Pirates. They should want to get there good players out of the NL. Odds are the Braves put together the best package. And the Indians are already 100 games out, so it probably would've benefited Shapiro and the Indians more if the Sox drained their farm system, so it would hurt them down the road when the Indians may be competitive.

Did anyody call him out? Someone needs to take this clown down a peg.

munchman33
07-04-2009, 10:45 AM
The Braves offer was immense. For instance, including Gorkys Hernandez is the equivalent of us adding, say, Jordan Danks to the offer. Maybe Kenny did inquire. But the reasons for not making the deal probably had more to do with the ridiculous cost.

Tragg
07-04-2009, 10:48 AM
Would you have wanted the Sox to trade Jordan Danks, Aaron Poreda and Dan Hudson for McLouth ?


I wouldn't have traded one of those guys for him.

munchman33
07-04-2009, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't have traded one of those guys for him.

I'd have traded any of those three for him. Just not more than one.

kittle42
07-04-2009, 01:09 PM
Hey, know that I think of it, it's almost as dumb as Management wasting draft picks on bad family memembers.

It worked once for Tommy Lasorda.

jabrch
07-04-2009, 02:51 PM
"The Sox tried to get Nate McLouth, they tried to get Nyjer Morgan, but the GM from the Pirates doesn't want to help the Sox because he came from the Indians so he's loyal to Mark Shapiro.

No GM would take a lesser package to protect his friends in another team. That's silly.

sullythered
07-04-2009, 10:57 PM
Dave Kaplan is exactly the same color as a roasted turkey. I can't take anything he says seriously until he cuts back on about four coats of fake-bake.

pythons007
07-05-2009, 12:03 AM
If its not about the Cubs, I don't believe anything he says. Just for the fact when there was a rain delay and they went back to Kaplan he talked nothing but Cubs. He doesn't know crap about crap unless its crap about the Cubs. This boob really shouldn't be a lead on any sports network.

UofCSoxFan
07-05-2009, 01:10 PM
I don't buy this story. While I don't doubt KW did his due diligence the Braves gave up a lot for McClouth; I doubt we wanted to match that deal.

balke
07-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Kaplan is a moron. If I remember right, the buzz was that McClouth wasn't even really being shopped but the Braves offer blew them away so they took it. And maybe a GM might try to help out a former boss or coworker but no way he'd flat out refuse a deal to a rival of a former boss if it helped his current team. Plus why would Kenny go after Morgan right now? Where would he play? Pods has CF on lockdown when TCQ comes back. Another brilliant report by Kaplan.

I'm pretty sure at the time of the MCclouth trade, Wise was on the DL, and Pods was a question mark. I would've crapped my pants if the Sox got Mcclouth. Pods has worked out great, but Mcclouth is a swinging Brian Anderson in CF and is young. Would've been the perfect move for the Sox.

DirtySox
07-05-2009, 01:27 PM
McLouth isn't a good CF. It is a joke that he won a Gold Glove. He is destined to move to a corner.

I also think the Braves overpaid for him.

balke
07-06-2009, 07:28 AM
McLouth isn't a good CF. It is a joke that he won a Gold Glove. He is destined to move to a corner.

I also think the Braves overpaid for him.

I don't know what defensive stats compiled to compute that, but it's far from the truth. Any game I've seen him he's gotten great jumps on the ball, has speed to get there, awareness of where the wall is, and a great arm.

DirtySox
07-06-2009, 10:39 AM
I don't know what defensive stats compiled to compute that, but it's far from the truth. Any game I've seen him he's gotten great jumps on the ball, has speed to get there, awareness of where the wall is, and a great arm.

He was pretty much panned everywhere for winning that award. He might be athletic, but that doesn't make a good CF. His stats might end up better this year, but he is by no means a great defensive CF.

http://www.azsnakepit.com/2008/11/6/655283/nate-mclouth-gets-a-gold-g

According to John Dewan's Fielding Bible data, McLouth was 40 plays worse than average, dead last amoung major league outfielders. According to Baseball Prospectus, McLouth was 17 runs - runs, not plays - worse than an average center fielder. According to Bill James' win shares, McLouth's outfield defense was 46th-most-valuable in the majors. This is exactly the sort of award that only damages the reputation of the honor."

balke
07-06-2009, 12:27 PM
He was pretty much panned everywhere for winning that award. He might be athletic, but that doesn't make a good CF. His stats might end up better this year, but he is by no means a great defensive CF.

http://www.azsnakepit.com/2008/11/6/655283/nate-mclouth-gets-a-gold-g




That graph has him compared to Cameron, Rowand, Patterson, Beltran, Young and Victorino. These are all above average at least CFers. Nate has a good arm to go with it, better than some on the list. I'm more disputing the idea that he's not a good Cfer and deserves to be in RF. On this team, He'd be CFer and we'd be very happy. A guy who defends the position well and hits the ball to go along with it. The outfield D overall wouldn't fall far from Wise or Anderson (although Anderson is probably defensively, MCclouth overall wouldn't make me miss him one bit).



This list also has Rowand rated higher than Cameron, which I find laughable. Cameron must've had a bad year last year.

If you wanna debate Gold Glove... the most nonsensical award in sports... go right ahead. It will likely never be awarded to the best defender at any position. Nate won a popularity contest, that's kinda where that debate ends.

DirtySox
07-06-2009, 05:48 PM
I would take Mclouth as our CF without a doubt, but at the price the Braves paid, not a chance.

Did you even read the following passages or just look at the table? The results are skewed due to the fact he doesn't make many errors. He still takes terrible routes and lacks good range. Did you even see his Fielding Bible results (http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-08.gif) for last year? Dead Last with -40. He missed 40 plays that an average center fielder would have made. He is not a very good center fielder. It's laughable to argue otherwise.

Lip Man 1
07-06-2009, 09:00 PM
Dave Kaplan's comments may have some substance to them. I just got this from a Sox beat writer:

"I'm convinced Pittsburgh would never trade McLouth to the White Sox because Huntington didn't want to help a rival of Shapiro."

Take it for what it may be worth to you.

Lip

doublem23
07-06-2009, 09:47 PM
Dave Kaplan's comments may have some substance to them. I just got this from a Sox beat writer:

"I'm convinced Pittsburgh would never trade McLouth to the White Sox because Huntington didn't want to help a rival of Shapiro."

Take it for what it may be worth to you.

Lip


I thought those guys were supposed to know what the hell they were talking about.

Lip Man 1
07-06-2009, 09:55 PM
Double:

Not sure what you mean.

This may be a situation where it can't be definitively proven but is common knowledge in MLB circles. (i.e. certain G.M.'s won't deal with other G.M.'s because of ties to organizations from earlier in their careers)

I don't know if it's true or what's going on but unless it can be proven, I don't see how a writer can actually put it down on paper.

And this is one of those things that you can't prove unless the G.M. involved actually comes clean. (He wouldn't be that stupid would he?)

Lip

Tragg
07-06-2009, 10:09 PM
This may be a situation where it can't be definitively proven but is common knowledge in MLB circles. (i.e. certain G.M.'s won't deal with other G.M.'s because of ties to organizations from earlier in their careers)

Wouldn't surprise me.

Brian26
07-06-2009, 10:27 PM
So Pittsburgh won't deal with just the Sox? Or they won't deal with any other team in the AL Central? Or they won't deal with any team in the American League?

What kind of GM eliminates 15% of his trading partners because he's worried about helping a friend on another team in another league? This, coming from a team that historically has given away players within their own division just before the trading deadline?

And, again, who is competing with Cleveland this year since they're on pace for 98 losses?

Lip Man 1
07-06-2009, 11:22 PM
If this is true I assume that means he won't deal with anyone directly in the division that makes Shapiro look bad or make his job harder.

It doesn't make sense to me but people do some strange things in the name of "loyalty"

Lip

drewcifer
07-07-2009, 12:15 AM
Who cares? McClouth is really not that good. There's no reason to even get upset about this. Maybe Kenny looked into it, maybe he didn't. If he did, he obviously didn't like the price.

Move on.

(And by "move on", I mean get rid of DeWayne Wise as fast as possible)