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pearso66
07-03-2009, 05:22 PM
Sounds like if Strasburg doesn't get the money Boras wants, he's going to try to make him a Japanese citizen and get around the draft system. Something tells me Bud won't let this happen.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/could-strasburg-move-to-japan-avoid-draft.html

TDog
07-03-2009, 06:32 PM
Sounds like if Strasburg doesn't get the money Boras wants, he's going to try to make him a Japanese citizen and get around the draft system. Something tells me Bud won't let this happen.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/could-strasburg-move-to-japan-avoid-draft.html

I don't see how Stephen Strasburg could ever be considered exempt from the major league amateur draft. He was born in the U.S. (in the same county as Ted Williams, and me.) He went to high school and college in the U.S. I don't know what he would have to do to become a citizen of Japan and give up his U.S. citizenship, but even if he did, it would be ridiculous to go to Japan so he could sign an inflated contract for a bonus he didn't earn so that Boras could get more money that he didn't earn.

Barring some sort of a successful litigation, Selig would never allow Strasburg to be exempt from the draft. It would certainly not be for the best interest of baseball, i.e. the owners who pay Selig's salary, to allow Strasburg to be a free agent, even if pitched several successful seasons in Japan (and that won't happen because the threat of injury would make such a move a monumental gamble).

The draft doesn't exist to provide competitive balance as much as it exists to keep salaries down. The top high school or college player in the country doesn't go to the highest bidder, which would tend to be the one taking a chance on someone who has never played a professional game. Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio don't automatically go to the Yankees if you have a draft. The top amateur player in the country can only negotiate with one team on a take it or leave it basis. There is no trading draft picks and such shenanigans. They take it or go back into the draft.

A lot of can't miss first-round picks don't make it to the majors, and most of those that do don't have the careers the optimistic scouts projected. Joe Borchard and Mark Prior could have retired on their signing bonus. If they had had brilliant careers, the sort of money Boras wants for Strasburg before he throws a single pitch will be there soon enough.

jamokes
07-03-2009, 09:33 PM
There should be NO international free agents in baseball, everyone goes through the same draft.

cws05champ
07-04-2009, 09:41 AM
If MLB allows this to happen, it would be a disgrace to the sport. If Boras pulls this off I hope ALL the owners blackball this kid. How much money is enough? You can't survive on $15M signing bonus? If you are as good as you think you are you will have another big payday.

munchman33
07-04-2009, 11:20 AM
There should be NO international free agents in baseball, everyone goes through the same draft.

That would instantly limit the influx of international players into the game, especially from countries where players are already paid millions of dollars.

munchman33
07-04-2009, 11:23 AM
Sounds like if Strasburg doesn't get the money Boras wants, he's going to try to make him a Japanese citizen and get around the draft system. Something tells me Bud won't let this happen.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/could-strasburg-move-to-japan-avoid-draft.html


This is a bluff. He's already qualified for the amateur draft, and will be automatically added to it in subsequent years if he doesn't sign by the deadline. He can't be removed from that list until he signs or goes undrafted.

asindc
07-04-2009, 12:01 PM
This has to be nothing but a bluff, unless a Japanese team is going to give him the money the Nats won't. Even then, it is still risky in terms of his long-term development. If MLB had a Commissioner, it would probably have solved this problem awhile ago.

Daver
07-04-2009, 12:18 PM
This has to be nothing but a bluff, unless a Japanese team is going to give him the money the Nats won't. Even then, it is still risky in terms of his long-term development. If MLB had a Commissioner, it would probably have solved this problem awhile ago.

MLB does have a commisioner, the most powerful commissioner it has ever had.

thedudeabides
07-04-2009, 12:31 PM
And yet another example of how flawed the MLB draft system has become. You think Bud would be tired of looking foolish by agents, by now. Or just in general.

asindc
07-04-2009, 12:45 PM
MLB does have a commisioner, the most powerful commissioner it has ever had.

I disagree. Selig is playing the part of Commissioner because the owners don't really want a Commissioner.

jabrch
07-04-2009, 02:47 PM
If you have no leverage for your client because nobody can bid for his services domesticly, why not create an imaginary market in Japan for him?

As a fan, I hate Boras. But he is usually damn good at getting his clients the most possible.

pearso66
07-04-2009, 11:24 PM
I hate wishing injury on the kid, but if this is allowed to happen, I hope he either stinks in Japan, or is injured, therefore this won't happen ever again. I doubt it will happen, and I'm sure it's just a bluff, but if it's allowed to happen, all top prospects, especially those of Boras will do the same thing. It has to stop somewhere. That said, If it's a bluff and I'm sure it is, I hope the Nationals call him on it. He obviously has no intention of signing with them unless it's an insane amount. Earn your paycheck kid.

Daver
07-05-2009, 04:30 PM
I disagree. Selig is playing the part of Commissioner because the owners don't really want a Commissioner.

Can you name a single commisioner that has weilded as much power over the sport as Bud does right now?

DumpJerry
07-05-2009, 04:48 PM
Can you name a single commisioner that has weilded as much power over the sport as Bud does right now?
The poster is confusing power/influence with doing what the fans want done. Bud throws a bone to the casual fan (the ones MLB needs to keep) with interleague play, etc., but, by and large, he acts in the owners' bets interests.

jabrch
07-05-2009, 04:57 PM
Can you name a single commisioner that has weilded as much power over the sport as Bud does right now?

The poster is confusing power/influence with doing what the fans want done. Bud throws a bone to the casual fan (the ones MLB needs to keep) with interleague play, etc., but, by and large, he acts in the owners' bets interests.


I think they key is that baseball lacks an INDEPENDENT commish.

Daver
07-05-2009, 05:01 PM
The poster is confusing power/influence with doing what the fans want done. Bud throws a bone to the casual fan (the ones MLB needs to keep) with interleague play, etc., but, by and large, he acts in the owners' bets interests.

The owners did not want George Mitchell investigating the use of steroids in baseball.

TheVulture
07-05-2009, 06:11 PM
I really don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to play in Japan. I thought the draft gave teams rights to a player within the major league system, if he doesn't want to play in MLB, that's his perogative.

pearso66
07-05-2009, 06:42 PM
I really don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to play in Japan. I thought the draft gave teams rights to a player within the major league system, if he doesn't want to play in MLB, that's his perogative.


That's not the point of going to Japan, he wants him to go there for however long is needed so he can come back and be a free agent, and get fought over by multiple teams. If he wants to play in Japan to play in Japan that would be different.

TheVulture
07-05-2009, 06:49 PM
That's not the point of going to Japan, he wants him to go there for however long is needed so he can come back and be a free agent, and get fought over by multiple teams. If he wants to play in Japan to play in Japan that would be different.


Why would he need to go to Japan, though? He apparently has no ties to Japan, doesn't speak the language, etc. If he wasn't going to play ball, why not just go somewhere like the UK?

Daver
07-05-2009, 07:11 PM
Why would he need to go to Japan, though? He apparently has no ties to Japan, doesn't speak the language, etc. If he wasn't going to play ball, why not just go somewhere like the UK?

How many FA's from the UK get signed to MLB contracts as opposed to Japan?

TDog
07-05-2009, 07:19 PM
How many FA's from the UK get signed to MLB contracts as opposed to Japan?

How many free agents from the UK throw more than 100 mph, starred at an American University and are being labeled as the greatest pitching prosepect ever?

I don't think he could get his own college coach out, but that's irrelevant.

asindc
07-05-2009, 07:28 PM
I think they key is that baseball lacks an INDEPENDENT commish.

Exactly. That is the KEY distinction. The only reason MLB used to have a Commissioner in the first place is because the owners saw the need to have one central figure, rather than the previous 3-person Commission, oversee MLB operations after what happened in 1919. Maybe if they knew how objective and independent Landis would act, the owners might not have appointed him (or any one person), but they did because the sport was in trouble from a PR standpoint.

Fast forward to 1994. The players strike, the Commissioner is ousted, and the owners reduce the "Commissioner's" ability to act in the best interests of the game. Four years later, the sport is still experiencing PR troubles because of those events. It takes a historic home run record chase to revive interest in the sport, which in turn ultimately inflicts another PR hit on the game as the two players involved in the chase are linked to PEDs.

Having the power to act in the owners' best interests is not the same as carrying out the duties of a Commissioner, no matter what title they give Selig, who only occupies his position because he will do what the owners want. If it happens to be consistent with the best interests of the game, great, if not, oh well. No confusion here about that.

asindc
07-05-2009, 07:31 PM
I really don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to play in Japan. I thought the draft gave teams rights to a player within the major league system, if he doesn't want to play in MLB, that's his perogative.

The issue is not whether he should be allowed to play in Japan (MLB can't stop him from doing so, anyway), but whether or not he should be allowed to come back after 1-2 years and be a FA, thereby circumventing the purpose of the draft.

Daver
07-05-2009, 07:40 PM
Having the power to act in the owners' best interests is not the same as carrying out the duties of a Commissioner, no matter what title they give Selig, who only occupies his position because he will do what the owners want. If it happens to be consistent with the best interests of the game, great, if not, oh well. No confusion here about that.

Please explain why he spent millions of dollars on the Mitchell investigation, against the wishes of the MLB owners, or why he removed the offices of league presidents, the same offices that helped oust Faye Vincent, with no prodding whatsoever from the owners. Bud has his faults, but for the most parts he does act in the best interest of baseball, whether you can see his intentions or not.

Daver
07-05-2009, 07:44 PM
The issue is not whether he should be allowed to play in Japan (MLB can't stop him from doing so, anyway), but whether or not he should be allowed to come back after 1-2 years and be a FA, thereby circumventing the purpose of the draft.

Anyone can do this without going to another country, the fact that they don't is because it is a huge gamble to risk injury in order to hold out for more cash, if Strasborg chooses to do so, more power to him, let him get his head handed to him in the Japanese league and ruin his value to teams because he can't get hitters out that for the most part would be AA hitters in this country.

asindc
07-05-2009, 07:50 PM
Please explain why he spent millions of dollars on the Mitchell investigation, against the wishes of the MLB owners, or why he removed the offices of league presidents, the same offices that helped oust Faye Vincent, with no prodding whatsoever from the owners. Bud has his faults, but for the most parts he does act in the best interest of baseball, whether you can see his intentions or not.

Politically, he could not justify not following up on the Mitchell investigation. As far as abolishing the league presidents' offices, many people see that as a move to consolidate his power and do not think it was in the best interests of baseball.

1) PED oversight.

2) Flawed draft that does not account for foreign players, the single biggest loophole in professional sports when it comes to acquiring players.

3) The worst econonic inbalance of any North American sports league.

4) Having fans vote for AS teams even though the game has real consequences (have one or the other, but not both).

Those issues persist in ways that would not be the case if MLB had a Commissioner.

Daver
07-05-2009, 08:00 PM
Politically, he could not justify not following up on the Mitchell investigation. As far as abolishing the league presidents' offices, many people see that as a move to consolidate his power and do not think it was in the best interests of baseball.

1) PED oversight.

2) Flawed draft that does not account for foreign players, the single biggest loophole in professional sports when it comes to acquiring players.

3) The worst econonic inbalance of any North American sports league.

4) Having fans vote for AS teams even though the game has real consequences (have one or the other, but not both).

Those issues persist in ways that would not be the case if MLB had a Commissioner.

Name a single person that could gain ground against the MLBPA after being found guilty of collusion and having to pay hundreds of millions in damages, and thanking your lucky stars that the anti trust exemption saved you from paying treble damages.

How do you dictate the actions of players that are not part of the draft agreement?

I agree on the All Star thing.

Was it an oversight with PED's or a calculated gamble that eventually blew up? The post strike game has never been more popular or more profitable, moreso than at any other point in the games history.

TDog
07-05-2009, 11:09 PM
...

4) Having fans vote for AS teams even though the game has real consequences (have one or the other, but not both).

Those issues persist in ways that would not be the case if MLB had a Commissioner.

You might not like this, but it does not support your argument.

asindc
07-05-2009, 11:23 PM
You might not like this, but it does not support your argument.

How so? Are you suggesting that is a good thing?

TDog
07-06-2009, 02:38 AM
How so? Are you suggesting that is a good thing?

Let me digress from my point to note that I honestly don't think it's a bad thing. The fans might elect some undeserving players, but they don't pick the pitchers and the bulk of the reserves. If a starter is undeserving, he won't play past the first three innings. Fan election, restored by Bowie Kuhn four decades ago, gave fans a role in the game to build interest. The stakes of the game that Selig gave it, assure that the teams will play to win. Last year's All-Star Game probably would have been a tie game if not for the stakes. And I don't think any of the starters the fans voted in were around at the end.

But whether I like the All-Star Game or not is irrelevant. Whether you think it is in the best interests of baseball is irrelevant. You are arguing that baseball doesn't have an independent commissioner who is free to act in the best interests of baseball. Selig was acting independent in what he considered the best interests of baseball when he decided the All-Star Game should decide World Series home-field advantage.

You might disagree with Selig about what constitutes the best interests of baseball. You might disagree with me. But you aren't arguing that Selig is mistaken about what constitutes the best interests of baseball. As I posted previously, this point not support the argument you are making.

HebrewHammer
07-06-2009, 11:27 AM
This is a bluff. Pure and simple. If Boras handed Strasburg a contract from a Japanese team and told him to sign it, Boras would be fired on the spot.

voodoochile
07-06-2009, 11:47 AM
This is a bluff. Pure and simple. If Boras handed Strasburg a contract from a Japanese team and told him to sign it, Boras would be fired on the spot.

I agree, he'd have to stay in Japan for a while to become a citizen I would imagine. I doubt they just let anyone in. The kid would have to learn Japanese at the minimum to attain citizenship status and then would actually be pitching for the whole world to see. That's something they seem to be wanting to not do until AFTER they break the bank.

If he pitches and doesn't excel, no way he's getting that money if/when he returns. If the kid does pitch well, it would still be many years before he could return as a FA.

I just hope the team that drafted him calls the bluff.

jabrch
07-06-2009, 11:55 AM
I agree, he'd have to stay in Japan for a while to become a citizen I would imagine. I doubt they just let anyone in. The kid would have to learn Japanese at the minimum to attain citizenship status and then would actually be pitching for the whole world to see. That's something they seem to be wanting to not do until AFTER they break the bank.

If he pitches and doesn't excel, no way he's getting that money if/when he returns. If the kid does pitch well, it would still be many years before he could return as a FA.

I just hope the team that drafted him calls the bluff.

Are the Japanese clubs swimming in money right now that they can afford Strasburg's demands? 50mm? I don't buy it.

asindc
07-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Are the Japanese clubs swimming in money right now that they can afford Strasburg's demands? 50mm? I don't buy it.

This is why it won't work. Unless I'm mistaken, Japanese clubs don't pay nearly that kind of money to players. So Strasburg would have to be more than average, hell, more than above average, to justify asking for the same kind of money upon his return. It would be a huge gamble, and a stupid one at that.

voodoochile
07-06-2009, 12:43 PM
Are the Japanese clubs swimming in money right now that they can afford Strasburg's demands? 50mm? I don't buy it.

The move is to establish citizenship so he can break the bank when he gets back. They aren't expecting to make that money in Japan.

This is why it won't work. Unless I'm mistaken, Japanese clubs don't pay nearly that kind of money to players. So Strasburg would have to be more than average, hell, more than above average, to justify asking for the same kind of money upon his return. It would be a huge gamble, and a stupid one at that.

Exactly. If the kid is less than he's cracked up to be while pitching in Japan, his big payday goes out the window even if he does establish his citizenship fairly quickly. It's too big of a gamble to turn down the $15-20M he'll probably end up signing for here. Boras is trying to push that number closer to the insane numbers he was throwing around prior to the draft. He can afford ton hold out for a while hoping the team will crack and up he offer.

LoveYourSuit
07-06-2009, 12:52 PM
The move is to establish citizenship so he can break the bank when he gets back. They aren't expecting to make that money in Japan.

.


Yes.

2 factors IMO:

1) the kid wants the big pay day right now.
2) he doesn't want to play for the lowly Nationals.

jabrch
07-06-2009, 01:22 PM
The move is to establish citizenship so he can break the bank when he gets back. They aren't expecting to make that money in Japan.

Understand - but he'd have to spend a few years there under a rookie contract too - right? And his team there would own rights - and he'd have to be posted - right?

I don't know all the mechanics behind it - so I may be way off base here. But I don't see how he is possibly better that way than getting his ass in Nationals camp under a MLB contract, get to the majors soon, and start the clock so he can get to his real big payday when he is a FA.

To me, this is just another example of Boras creating an imaginary bidder when one does not exist.

TheVulture
07-06-2009, 02:11 PM
Understand - but he'd have to spend a few years there under a rookie contract too - right? And his team there would own rights - and he'd have to be posted - right?


The team would have his rights for nine years. In addition, Japan is probably one of the most difficult nations on the world for a foreigner to gain citizenship.

jabrch
07-06-2009, 03:15 PM
The team would have his rights for nine years. In addition, Japan is probably one of the most difficult nations on the world for a foreigner to gain citizenship.

Then I have no idea how this would be advantageous to him...Having to buy his rights in the form of a posting fee to his Japanese team, and THEN pay him?