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Lip Man 1
07-03-2009, 12:53 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1650593,CST-SPT-joe03.article

I understand the logic behind this but if Podsednik doesn't stay healthy what's the alternative? Long term the Sox don't have an answer yet for center among any of the current candidates (Pods, BA, Wise) maybe Jordon Danks eventually but to me I don't think they can afford to wait since they haven't had a CF since 2005.

Lip

voodoochile
07-03-2009, 12:55 PM
Oh crap...

I'm begging people to please keep this thread on topic and be accepting of others' opinions.

Thank you in advance?

voodoochile
07-03-2009, 01:02 PM
My thoughts on trading Anderson are that he'll probably bring more in return than Wise and as much as I prefer Anderson to Wise, I don't see enough value in the 4th OF slot to worry much about it, so if Anderson can bring a return and Wise is just something you dump I'd keep Wise and trade Anderson.

I do think Anderson adds more to the team, but again, as a backup neither of them is that important to the long term success, IMO. The 22-25 players on the bench just won't make that big of a difference and with Nix showing the ability to cover the corner OF slots in a pinch the Sox clearly don't need two backup OF who can only backup the OF.

LITTLE NELL
07-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Have to keep him around as a late inning defensive replacement for Pods. Wise should go.

TheVulture
07-03-2009, 01:04 PM
I'd only trade him for a 4th OFer who can play a strong CF. Oh, wait...

Rohan
07-03-2009, 01:06 PM
As an Anderson supporter i think that if he is given an appropriate amount of consistant starting time he could be hitting .260.

Because Ozzie will never give him that consistent time, I think it'd be good to trade him. He'd start on any other team that values defense - as the White Sox apparently do not.

twinsuck
07-03-2009, 01:12 PM
Anderson is a better defensive outfielder than Wise and would be a good 4th outfielder. Who cares if you can't hit well when he'll basically just go into the game late when they want a good defensive replacement. I say keep him and get rid of Wise.

khan
07-03-2009, 01:15 PM
As an Anderson supporter i think that if he is given an appropriate amount of consistant starting time he could be hitting .260.

I used to hold this same view. But the numbers do not lie in BA's case: He's had 167 AB this season, and is hitting .234/.319/.311. Yes, his slugging is less than his OBP.

After giving BA this far into this season to prove himelf, I've concluded that BA is simply not a good offensive player.

In terms of trading BA, I disagree with this idea. I like having his defensive ability as a 4th OF. That is, until a better alternative can be found or developed for this team.

Wise will not return ANYTHING in trade, so he should just be DFA'ed. Who in their right mind would give anything in return for a guy on the wrong side of 30, with little-to-no baseball ability?

ode to veeck
07-03-2009, 01:19 PM
I say no, simply until TCQ is proven healthy

DickAllen72
07-03-2009, 01:20 PM
The Sox have been horrible on defense this year. So why trade one of the few good defensive players on the team?

If another team really wants Anderson and offers up some good value, then sure. But to trade him just to make room for a returning Quentin, while Dewayne Wise is still around would be ridiculous.

Just DFA Wise. No need to worry about him being out of options, it's most likely nobody will pick him up anyway. And if someone does, it's no big loss.

TomBradley72
07-03-2009, 01:30 PM
Have to keep him around as a late inning defensive replacement for Pods. Wise should go.

I'm with you....Anderson brings more value to the mix of the roster. I don't want Pods out in CF in the late inning based on his overall defense. I don't want Wise out there either.

Anderson is a huge disappointment to me....I really thought he would come around by now and be able to deliver a .260-270 batting average with gold glove defense...but he's stagnating or regressing...no real improvement.

Dibbs
07-03-2009, 01:35 PM
Trade him for what? It's not like he will yield a good prospect at this point. He has value to the White Sox right now. Get rid of Wise when the time comes. I can't stand Cowley.

California Sox
07-03-2009, 01:36 PM
Anderson brings very little value in trade. He's got a good glove and can be a right-handed alternative when we want to rest Pods against lefties. With Quentin fragile, Dye needing more rest as he gets older, and Pods not being a good centerfielder, it seems that Anderson's value to the team is more than his value in trade. But that's just me.

To clear a spot on the roster for TCQ, maybe they should consider ending the Gobble experiment. Seems like Ozzie only trusts him in blowouts anyway.

Heffalump
07-03-2009, 01:38 PM
This article is pure stupidity.

Yes, Pods will be the CF when TCQ come back - NO BRAINER.

Yes, one of BA or DeWayne will have to go - NO BRAINER

Why the hell would any team keep Wise over BA? For a bench warming outfielder, the massive difference in defensive abilities should simply be enough to answer the question.

I'm know BA lover, but I can't think of ANY reasons to keep Wise over Anderson for the backup OF spot.

Jimmy Piersall
07-03-2009, 01:41 PM
This article is pure stupidity.

Yes, Pods will be the CF when TCQ come back - NO BRAINER.

Yes, one of BA or DeWayne will have to go - NO BRAINER

Why the hell would any team keep Wise over BA? For a bench warming outfielder, the massive difference in defensive abilities should simply be enough to answer the question.

I'm know BA lover, but I can't think of ANY reasons to keep Wise over Anderson for the backup OF spot.

What Heff said.It's all right there.

dwalteroo
07-03-2009, 01:44 PM
I say no, simply until TCQ is proven healthy

Concur. Plantar fasciitis can recur too easily.

LoveYourSuit
07-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Wise cost the Sox nothing to get and should be dumped right away.

There is no such log-jam here.

chisox77
07-03-2009, 02:03 PM
Keep BA.

Noneck
07-03-2009, 02:07 PM
Since Anderson has an option and if the higher ups feel as tho Wise is the guy to be the 4th OF when Quentin returns, send Anderson down. The Sox wont get crap for Anderson and he is the insurance policy if something happens to Pod, Quentin or Dye or if they realize that Wise is truly a career minor leaguer.

JB98
07-03-2009, 02:27 PM
I would keep Anderson. He is never going to be a good hitter, but we are sorely lacking organizational depth in the outfield. We might as well hold on to the guy who is our best defensive outfielder.

Even when Quentin gets back, he's not going to be 100 percent. I think in late-inning situations where the Sox have the lead, we want to put Anderson in CF and shift Pods back to LF. Keep Quentin off his feet as much as possible.

Frankly, when Quentin comes back, I'm in favor of shipping Gobble's ass out of here and keeping both BA and Wise. Gobble pitches once a week at most. Do we really need him? I can find more uses for both BA and Wise than for Gobble.

kittle42
07-03-2009, 02:31 PM
Trade him for what? It's not like he will yield a good prospect at this point. He has value to the White Sox right now. Get rid of Wise when the time comes. I can't stand Cowley.

Ditto. Assuming Quentin comes back, you need a solid defensive replacement in the late innings for him or for Pods in CF. Anderson is that person. Wise is not.

Konerko05
07-03-2009, 02:38 PM
If Quentin comes back, the Sox will have a very big man suffering from a foot injury in LF, a LF'er who's suffered leg injuries for the last 4 years in CF, and a 35 year old in RF who has already missed time this season with a calf problem.

Not only will it be a task to keep these three players healthy, the OF defense will be awful. Now would be the worst time to trade the best defensive OF'er on the team.

KRS1
07-03-2009, 02:41 PM
My thoughts on trading Anderson are that he'll probably bring more in return than Wise and as much as I prefer Anderson to Wise, I don't see enough value in the 4th OF slot to worry much about it, so if Anderson can bring a return and Wise is just something you dump I'd keep Wise and trade Anderson.


That is exactly why I DON'T trade Anderson now. He is what he is, a good fourth OF who can be counted on to start in small stints. We know that and everyone in the league knows that. With our OF situation you have to figure we value him as high as any, and we only value him as a fourth OF, so what does that say about his trade value? Wise is crap and I doubt we get anything helpful for Anderson, so Brian's best value is to be kept as a fourth OF here.

JB98
07-03-2009, 02:45 PM
If Quentin comes back, the Sox will have a very big man suffering from a foot injury in LF, a LF'er who's suffered leg injuries for the last 4 years in CF, and a 35 year old in RF who has already missed time this season with a calf problem.

Not only will it be a task to keep these three players healthy, the OF defense will be awful. Now would be the worst time to trade the best defensive OF'er on the team.

Which is precisely why I'm advocating dumping Gobble and keeping both BA and Wise. We need all the experienced outfielders we can find, given the injury risks for Quentin, Pods and Dye. While neither BA nor Wise is a good hitter, both can handle all three outfield positions defensively. And Anderson handles all three exceptionally well.

grenda12
07-03-2009, 02:46 PM
Give it a rest with Anderson already. He's a good player.

Lillian
07-03-2009, 02:47 PM
He's hitting good enough vs. righties; .268 with an OBP of .333 vs. right handers this year. Hey, he's not the first right handed hitter who had a tougher time vs. Lefties. Hawk and D.J. used to talk about that a lot. I have a pet theory about why that may be true, if anyone is interested. But suffice to say here that he doesn't look that bad vs. right handers, and he is indeed an elite defender.

He has been hitting the ball hard the last few of games, but right at a defender. I still think there is too much promise there, unless another team offers someone really worthwhile.

Sargeant79
07-03-2009, 02:51 PM
I was in the camp that thought that Anderson deserved a shot to be the starting center fielder, if for no other reason than to have his defense out there. While I think he has made some improvements, his approach at the plate still hasn't evolved into what it should be.

I think with Anderson, what you see is what you get at this point, which means he is not a starter on a contending team. He is, however, an ideal 4th outfielder who is a defensive replacement and can get a start once a week or so. Teams need those types of guys, so I think you absolutely keep him on the team.

JB98
07-03-2009, 02:56 PM
As some of us have pointed out in the past, he continues to look good enough vs. righties. He's hitting .268 with an OBP of .333 vs. right handers this year. Part of his problem last year was that he was platooned and saw mainly Lefties, whom he has never been able to hit. Hey, he's not the first right handed hitter who had a tougher time vs. Lefties. Hawk and D.J. used to talk about that a lot. I have a pet theory about why that may be true, if anyone is interested. But suffice to say here that he doesn't look that bad vs. right handers, and he is indeed an elite defender.

He has been hitting the ball hard the last few of games, but right at a defender. I still think there is too much promise there, unless another team offers someone really worthwhile.

As far as Anderson's offense goes, it isn't so much the lefty-righty thing. It's more a matter of having a hard time hitting an offspeed pitch, and laying off offspeed pitches that are out of the zone.

BA still gets himself out by swinging at a lot of crap. When he gets himself a fastball, he generally hits it hard. The problem is he doesn't often get himself in fastball counts.

I go back to the second week of June to illustrate this point. You may recall the final game we played against Detroit in that five-game set. Anderson leads off the bottom of the ninth against Zumaya, a fastball pitcher. Brian absolutely hammers a 98 mph heater back up the middle and gets a single to start what would be the game-winning rally.

The very next night at Milwaukee, with Jeff Suppan on the mound, BA strikes out on three pitches in each of his first two at-bats. Suppan never threw him a single strike. Just sliders down and out of the zone. If BA lays off the crap and puts himself in a fastball count, he probably kills Suppan, whose fastball is meat.

I'm not optimistic about BA's offense. I never really have been. But I'd still hold on to him because I think he brings something important to the team with his glove. He also can run the bases, which is a plus. He made a great read to score from second on that liner off the bat of Pods in the eighth inning last night.

thedudeabides
07-03-2009, 03:03 PM
Since Anderson has an option and if the higher ups feel as tho Wise is the guy to be the 4th OF when Quentin returns, send Anderson down. The Sox wont get crap for Anderson and he is the insurance policy if something happens to Pod, Quentin or Dye or if they realize that Wise is truly a career minor leaguer.

If they can't figure a way out to keep Wise and BA on the roster, this is a pretty decent plan. If Quentin, Pods, and Dye are patrolling the OF on a daily basis, there is a good chance that one of them will miss some time. They need the insurance. Norris Hopper is the only other viable option with any major league experience. I honestly wouldn't mind him getting a shot at the Wise role.

Keep in mind, this was only Cowley's opinion, and means very little. I think BA's trade value is next to nothing, so it may be more valuable to keep him in the organization. Not many teams are going to give up much for a late inning defensive replacement. Against lefties this year BA is .136/.283/.250. That pretty much eliminates him from a platoon on any team. A right hander who can't hit lefties, isn't exactly a huge commodity.

Edit: Thinking about this a little more. Hopper may have been brought in as insurance if the Sox DFA Wise, and need another lefty reserve outfielder. Which would mean Anderson would stay.

fram40
07-03-2009, 03:12 PM
Part of Cowley's reasoning was that it is time for a new start for BA - to give him a chance with another organization.

It seems to me a former first rounder such as BA could bring back some other team's failed first round pick. Or maybe a failed a second rounder.

Thornton (at the time a failed first rounder) was traded for Joe Borchard and I suspect BA has more value at this time than Borchard did when Borchard was traded.

Konerko05
07-03-2009, 03:20 PM
Which is precisely why I'm advocating dumping Gobble and keeping both BA and Wise. We need all the experienced outfielders we can find, given the injury risks for Quentin, Pods and Dye. While neither BA nor Wise is a good hitter, both can handle all three outfield positions defensively. And Anderson handles all three exceptionally well.

You're probably right. I don't like the idea of Jayson Nix being the 5th OF'er behind that group for the sole reason of keeping Jimmy Gobble on the roster.

Although the 12th man on the pitching staff could be useful if Guillen/Williams could find a somewhat productive pitcher to fill the role. Does anyone know what is going on with Colon? Is he even expected back?

thedudeabides
07-03-2009, 03:33 PM
You're probably right. I don't like the idea of Jayson Nix being the 5th OF'er behind that group for the sole reason of keeping Jimmy Gobble on the roster.

Although the 12th man on the pitching staff could be useful if Guillen/Williams could find a somewhat productive pitcher to fill the role. Does anyone know what is going on with Colon? Is he even expected back?

No idea. They may just keep him on the DL until he's needed or he starts complaining.

If the Sox can figure out if someone can back up first, and no Thome is not an option, Fields could be a candidate to be sent down or traded. His trade value is higher than Anderson or Wise, and all our other infielders are pretty versatile. I really think they need five outfielders until Quentins health picture gets al little clearer.

voodoochile
07-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Part of Cowley's reasoning was that it is time for a new start for BA - to give him a chance with another organization.

It seems to me a former first rounder such as BA could bring back some other team's failed first round pick. Or maybe a failed a second rounder.

Thornton (at the time a failed first rounder) was traded for Joe Borchard and I suspect BA has more value at this time than Borchard did when Borchard was traded.

That's my thinking. BA has some trade value. Wise has none. As the first non-catcher off the bench neither of them is that important, IMO. Thus is one has value you take that value. Possibly BA could be worked into a trade as added value to get back a player the Sox really want/need or as you mentioned a failed high level draft pick the Sox can hopefully help find their way (ala Thornton).

But, it's not that big of a deal to me. If the Sox would prefer to keep BA and give Wise his walking papers, that's fine too.

jabrch
07-03-2009, 04:26 PM
Trade him for what? It's not like he will yield a good prospect at this point. He has value to the White Sox right now. Get rid of Wise when the time comes. I can't stand Cowley.

I agree with the bolded point. We'd get very little for him. And we need him because he is able to play CF or RF. We know that Dye is at the age where he's a risk. We aren't happy with Pods or Wise playing CF in the crunch. If we were out of it - that would be one thing. Then yes - turn him into something maybe more useful in the long term. But for now - I don't see who would offer us anything worth BA. That said, if someone does come around with a better (more veteran) OF option for us, and they want BA, then do it.

I don't see a team out there looking for a guy like BA - but who knows?

kitekrazy
07-03-2009, 04:44 PM
I agree with the bolded point. We'd get very little for him. And we need him because he is able to play CF or RF. We know that Dye is at the age where he's a risk. We aren't happy with Pods or Wise playing CF in the crunch. If we were out of it - that would be one thing. Then yes - turn him into something maybe more useful in the long term. But for now - I don't see who would offer us anything worth BA. That said, if someone does come around with a better (more veteran) OF option for us, and they want BA, then do it.

I don't see a team out there looking for a guy like BA - but who knows?

Even if some team was interested Dye, Pods and Quentin has a history of injuries. Not a wise move at all. What could the Sox get in return that would make them bite on it?

Tragg
07-03-2009, 05:40 PM
If Wise were DFAd he wouldn't be claimed. Guillen (and Cowley, were he a manager) is the only manager in America that would have him on the 40 man. Cowley speculating on whether Wise would accept assignment is almost as laughable as his calling his 2008 performance "solid"

Wise has a career obp of .260; he's hitting .191 this year and has an ops of .537.
Anderson would obviously bring more in trade, but not that much either. He has value on this team as the team's only plus defender(coupled with a 2009 ops c. 100 points higher than Wise's). Wise is absolutely useless as a bench player because he can't even bring late-inning defense to the party (and he can't hit).

hawkjt
07-03-2009, 07:48 PM
Cowley is trying to make a case to get BA some playing time elsewhere being better for his career ..and it probably is..but this is hardball and the sox are not his babysitter. They need to send him down to the minors for the six weeks til sept callup or someone gets hurt or Dwise fails spectacularly...or keep both him and wise and send gobble down..

bottom line..BA should be kept around for late inning replacement and spot starts...along with Dwise, as insurance against Carlos or Jermaine or Pods getting hurt.

It's Dankerific
07-03-2009, 09:09 PM
Its in the Sox's best interest to keep BA.

Its in BA's best interest for them to trade him.

A. Cavatica
07-03-2009, 10:49 PM
til sept callup or someone gets hurt or Dwise fails spectacularly

Have you been following Wise's career? :scratch:

Risk
07-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Anderson should stay. Either Wise or Gobble should be DFA when TCQ comes back (which probably isn't until August anyway).

Risk

spongyfungy
07-03-2009, 10:54 PM
This thing smells like Phil Rogers dump Zambrano article that got lots of media attention from the likes of Buster Olney and all the sports talk shows.

It seems like papers are taking the same approach for white sox to stir up some controversy and from the looks of this thread it seems to be working. The headline in the actual newspaper in was "Pull the plug on B.A." and that got me reading the column.

I don't know why people are so passionate about a couple of sub .200 hitters. To me, when it's actually time for TCQ to come play, whoever is hitting better should stay

jabrch
07-03-2009, 11:01 PM
What would anyone give us for BA? I just can't see us getting too much for him.

It's Dankerific
07-03-2009, 11:07 PM
I don't know why people are so passionate about a couple of sub .200 hitters. To me, when it's actually time for TCQ to come play, whoever is hitting better should stay

Only Mr. Wise is below .200

Chicken Dinner
07-03-2009, 11:12 PM
Only Mr. Wise is below .200

He is the odd man out at this point. BA is much more valuable.

Boondock Saint
07-03-2009, 11:27 PM
Its in the Sox's best interest to keep BA.

Its in BA's best interest for them to trade him.

I agree. But I doubt that the Sox are going to trade him for scraps and deplete their OF depth just so he can get to play every day.

Tragg
07-03-2009, 11:53 PM
Its in BA's best interest for them to trade him.
It's not like BA's been terribly aggrieved this year. He's played a lot. Do I think he should play more? Yes, but that's because of the weakness of the alternative, not because his play has been scintillating.
He's on a good team, he's playing....BA will be okay.

spongyfungy
07-04-2009, 04:08 AM
Only Mr. Wise is below .200

Well, I was talking about their career numbers. .224 for BA vs .211 for Wise

FarWestChicago
07-04-2009, 06:38 AM
Part of Cowley's reasoning...This may be the first time I've ever seen Tailgunner Joe and "reasoning" in the same sentence. :mg:

Thome25
07-04-2009, 09:59 AM
Anderson is a better defensive outfielder than Wise and would be a good 4th outfielder. Who cares if you can't hit well when he'll basically just go into the game late when they want a good defensive replacement. I say keep him and get rid of Wise.


I'm not a BA supporter but, this makes the most sense.

Domeshot17
07-04-2009, 10:05 AM
Do the right thing and trade him in the offseason. Until then, keep him here because if Pods is in CF we need his D late in Games. Dump Wise because the few skills he has pods covers. Lefty, "speed" (although he isn't much of a base runner), His D is only average and his arm is sucky.

The only other option is if we ARE dumping Thome at the years end, keep BA, move Dye to DH, Quentin to RF, Pods to LF and Anderson to CF, but offensively thats a tough OF to live with.

FarWestChicago
07-04-2009, 11:51 AM
Tailgunner's article is completely asinine. I guarantee he wrote the thing to stir up the FOBA. He lurks here all the time. He knows winding up the FOBA is good for his business. Anybody but a moron would keep BA around unless a bigger moron offered something ridiculous for him. You have to go for the Linecum for BA trade.

Otherwise:

http://www.mundoplus.tv/zonaseries/imagenes/fichas/elgranheroe.jpg

asindc
07-04-2009, 12:05 PM
Its in the Sox's best interest to keep BA.

Its in BA's best interest for them to trade him.

I think this sums it up nicely, and I am not a FOBA by any stretch.

jabrch
07-04-2009, 02:46 PM
EXACTLY! No reason to trade him - I assume nobody will give you something more helpful either today or in the future. If that's wrong, and someone wants to value BA as a top tier prospect and not as a 4th OF, then that's a different story.

Tailgunner's article is completely asinine. I guarantee he wrote the thing to stir up the FOBA. He lurks here all the time. He knows winding up the FOBA is good for his business. Anybody but a moron would keep BA around unless a bigger moron offered something ridiculous for him. You have to go for the Linecum for BA trade.



Otherwise:

http://www.mundoplus.tv/zonaseries/imagenes/fichas/elgranheroe.jpg

tick53
07-05-2009, 09:22 AM
I say no, simply until TCQ is proven healthy

Absolutely! Carlos Quentin may not be ready to play every day for a long time given the type of injury he has. Throw Dye and Pods into the mix and it could be a defensive disaster in the outfield. Also, if BA goes, it's another first round draft choice in the dumpster.

RowanDye
07-05-2009, 11:02 AM
Do the right thing and trade him in the offseason. Until then, keep him here because if Pods is in CF we need his D late in Games. Dump Wise because the few skills he has pods covers. Lefty, "speed" (although he isn't much of a base runner), His D is only average and his arm is sucky.

The only other option is if we ARE dumping Thome at the years end, keep BA, move Dye to DH, Quentin to RF, Pods to LF and Anderson to CF, but offensively thats a tough OF to live with.

As long as Anderson is cheap he seems like a perfect 4th OF to me. He might not like it very much, but his attitude has seemed fine this year.

If Thome leaves, I would like to see Kenny reinvestment some of that money into the outfield. The CF free agent market looks pretty bare though, Marlon Byrd maybe?

Sign or trade for a CF this offseason and keep Anderson around as a cheap 4th OF for one more year. He'll probably get plenty of playing time with Pods and Quentin on the roster.

russ99
07-05-2009, 11:26 AM
I'm certainly not an Anderson supporter and can't understand why Ozzie keeps putting him out there every other day, when it's obvious he can't hit big-league pitching with any consistency.

But even I think it's a really dumb idea to let him go right now. He's our best defensive outfielder and can help the team starting a few times a week (hitting in the 9 spot) - more in parks with big CF's, and being a CF defensive sub in the 7th/8th inning otherwise.

Maybe if Kenny adds an outfielder or two between now and next opening day, he'd be movable, but even then, we'd better have a backup plan for a defensive outfielder on the roster.

SCCWS
07-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Looking at the presnt roster, an outfield of Dye, PODs and CQ will need a quality 4th outfielder for the long haul. Neither Wise or Anderson is quality but it may be necessary to keep both on 40 man unless there is someone in the minors. Therefore when CQ is ready Wise should go back to minors as opposed to being released as long as he has options.

voodoochile
07-05-2009, 11:53 AM
Looking at the presnt roster, an outfield of Dye, PODs and CQ will need a quality 4th outfielder for the long haul. Neither Wise or Anderson is quality but it may be necessary to keep both on 40 man unless there is someone in the minors. Therefore when CQ is ready Wise should go back to minors as opposed to being released as long as he has options.

He doesn't.

It's Dankerific
07-05-2009, 12:04 PM
Who is this mystery team thats going to jump up and offer Wise a contract?

ROFL.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2009, 08:00 PM
Who is this mystery team thats going to jump up and offer Wise a contract?

ROFL.

The White Sox.

If you cannot spot the sucker...

...you ARE the sucker.

voodoochile
07-05-2009, 10:48 PM
The White Sox.

If you cannot spot the sucker...

...you ARE the sucker.

Meanwhile Wise keeps plugging along having put 70 points on his BA, 90 points on his OBP, 160 points on his SLG and 250 points on his OPS while scoring 6 runs and driving in 5 since 6/19 (8 starts, one half game and 2 more late inning substitutions - 11 total appearances, 36 PA). That's like having a number 9 hitter who scores 100 runs and drives in 85 over the course of a season). Yes, it's just a hot streak and maybe he shouldn't be on the team at all, but at least he's performing recently when given the chance.

CLR01
07-06-2009, 04:20 AM
Meanwhile Wise keeps plugging along having put 70 points on his BA, 90 points on his OBP, 160 points on his SLG and 250 points on his OPS while scoring 6 runs and driving in 5 since 6/19 (8 starts, one half game and 2 more late inning substitutions - 11 total appearances, 36 PA). That's like having a number 9 hitter who scores 100 runs and drives in 85 over the course of a season). Yes, it's just a hot streak and maybe he shouldn't be on the team at all, but at least he's performing recently when given the chance.


He's pretty ****ing solid. Second best damned ball player I ever seen.

Tragg
07-06-2009, 12:01 PM
Meanwhile Wise keeps plugging along having put 70 points on his BA, 90 points on his OBP, 160 points on his SLG and 250 points on his OPS while scoring 6 runs and driving in 5 since 6/19 (8 starts, one half game and 2 more late inning substitutions - 11 total appearances, 36 PA). That's like having a number 9 hitter who scores 100 runs and drives in 85 over the course of a season). Yes, it's just a hot streak and maybe he shouldn't be on the team at all, but at least he's performing recently when given the chance.
LOL
And with all of that he's STILL 100 points below Anderson, which is not exactly Beltran.
He's hitting .203 and his OPS is a .550.
He hasn't done much Ozzie actually thinks he's a good player - and that's all that matters.

voodoochile
07-06-2009, 12:29 PM
LOL
And with all of that he's STILL 100 points below Anderson, which is not exactly Beltran.
He's hitting .203 and his OPS is a .550.
He hasn't done much Ozzie actually thinks he's a good player - and that's all that matters.

Not arguing any of those points, just that Wise has at least been producing since he's been playing again. Anytime you have a #9 hitter generating a run a game by scoring or driving someone in, it's a good thing.

If the Sox can get that production from any #9 hitter it will be great. If that's Wise or BA or Getz or whoever, I'll be very happy. The bottom of our lineup has been showing more life since we went on this recent hot streak and it's a major reason why. I'm just happy that it's happening. I don't care who the players are I just want production.

Carolina Kenny
07-06-2009, 01:00 PM
If we dump Wise, we still have Norris Hopper with a similair skill set, waiting in the wings.

ode to veeck
07-06-2009, 01:52 PM
This may be the first time I've ever seen Tailgunner Joe and "reasoning" in the same sentence. :mg:

tailgunner joe? refering to his talking out of his ass 99.9999% of the time?

Tragg
07-06-2009, 04:58 PM
Not arguing any of those points, just that Wise has at least been producing since he's been playing again. Anytime you have a #9 hitter generating a run a game by scoring or driving someone in, it's a good thing.

If the Sox can get that production from any #9 hitter it will be great. If that's Wise or BA or Getz or whoever, I'll be very happy. The bottom of our lineup has been showing more life since we went on this recent hot streak and it's a major reason why. I'm just happy that it's happening. I don't care who the players are I just want production.
He's 5 for his last 20, in this, his hottest streak of the year. That's a .250 BA. His OBP is 286 over that time.
IN his last 10 games, his Batting Average is .267 and his OBP is .313.
That is not producing.

Let's look at the 3 candidates for the 9 hole: (OBP, OPS)
Getz .303, .639
Anderson .333, .658
Wise .259, .550
Getz and Anderson are tolerable for the 9 hole. Wise is not. He should not be on the 40 man.
Ozzie was a major contributor to 2007's offensive impotence; thankfully, this nonsense affects only 1 position in 2010

JC456
07-06-2009, 05:21 PM
For all of you who are big BA fans: If BA is so darn good at defense, why don't we see him on highlight film?

Everone says give him a chance, well he's had the chance and you know what? He can't hit!!!! 90 strike outs out of 365 at bats only 82 hits in 2006 when he was supposed to be the guy. He strikes out more than he hits. And this year he's already at 47 Ks with 40 hits in 59 games and that's part time play for a half of year.

He has little value to the White Sox especially when he kills innings due to striking out with runners on! Curve ball outside and he is grabbing bench. I have not seen a game where having him on the field instead of Wise made a difference.

voodoochile
07-06-2009, 05:36 PM
For all of you who are big BA fans: If BA is so darn good at defense, why don't we see him on highlight film?

Everone says give him a chance, well he's had the chance and you know what? He can't hit!!!! 90 strike outs out of 365 at bats only 82 hits in 2006 when he was supposed to be the guy. He strikes out more than he hits. And this year he's already at 47 Ks with 40 hits in 59 games and that's part time play for a half of year.

He has little value to the White Sox especially when he kills innings due to striking out with runners on! Curve ball outside and he is grabbing bench. I have not seen a game where having him on the field instead of Wise made a difference.

When this thread devolves into a fight, I'm gonna ban you til XMas...:smile:

MisterB
07-06-2009, 05:40 PM
For all of you who are big BA fans: If BA is so darn good at defense, why don't we see him on highlight film?

Making highlight reel catches doesn't mean you're a good defender. That's like saying that 500-foot bomb that Borchard hit makes him a good hitter.

Konerko05
07-06-2009, 05:48 PM
Making highlight reel catches doesn't mean you're a good defender.

I don't know. I'd rather have Anderson get bad jumps and take poor routes so he can be on ESPN with half-assed dives.

ode to veeck
07-06-2009, 07:38 PM
When this thread devolves into a fight, I'm gonna ban you til XMas...:smile:

yep, there's answers to all his questions but we been down that road more than Bill Murray in Groundhog Day

It's Dankerific
07-06-2009, 07:39 PM
yep, there's answers to all his questions but we been down that road more than Bill Murray in Groundhog Day

He should just search posts by: It's Dankerific

=)

MISoxfan
07-07-2009, 09:34 AM
He's 5 for his last 20, in this, his hottest streak of the year. That's a .250 BA. His OBP is 286 over that time.
IN his last 10 games, his Batting Average is .267 and his OBP is .313.
That is not producing.

Let's look at the 3 candidates for the 9 hole: (OBP, OPS)
Getz .303, .639
Anderson .333, .658
Wise .259, .550
Getz and Anderson are tolerable for the 9 hole. Wise is not. He should not be on the 40 man.
Ozzie was a major contributor to 2007's offensive impotence; thankfully, this nonsense affects only 1 position in 2010

Is there a reason we haven't seen more of Nix? I've only been able to watch one game this season outside of gameday, but I haven't heard any major complaints about his fielding.

JC456
07-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Making highlight reel catches doesn't mean you're a good defender. That's like saying that 500-foot bomb that Borchard hit makes him a good hitter.

No, what it means is he is not making more difficult plays than Wise can make.

Has he made plays Wise couldn't? IMO, No!

Rob MacKowiek, yes!

All I know is his bat is more of a liability than his mit and there is no way he makes so many plays in the field to overcome his bad bat and lost RBI. And again, he's had years to improve and it ain't happening. It would be nice to see him adjust! However, doing the same thing time after time is old and booring and ruins the defensive skills he has!

Sargeant79
07-07-2009, 02:06 PM
Is there a reason we haven't seen more of Nix? I've only been able to watch one game this season outside of gameday, but I haven't heard any major complaints about his fielding.

Actually, his fielding has been outstanding, even when he's played out of his regular position at 2B. It's his batting average that hasn't quite been what it's needed to be.

It's Dankerific
07-07-2009, 04:50 PM
No, what it means is he is not making more difficult plays than Wise can make.

Has he made plays Wise couldn't? IMO, No!

Rob MacKowiek, yes!

All I know is his bat is more of a liability than his mit and there is no way he makes so many plays in the field to overcome his bad bat and lost RBI. And again, he's had years to improve and it ain't happening. It would be nice to see him adjust! However, doing the same thing time after time is old and booring and ruins the defensive skills he has!

This has to be some sort of sick joke.

Randar68
07-07-2009, 06:42 PM
Meanwhile Wise keeps plugging along having put 70 points on his BA, 90 points on his OBP, 160 points on his SLG and 250 points on his OPS while scoring 6 runs and driving in 5 since 6/19 (8 starts, one half game and 2 more late inning substitutions - 11 total appearances, 36 PA). That's like having a number 9 hitter who scores 100 runs and drives in 85 over the course of a season). Yes, it's just a hot streak and maybe he shouldn't be on the team at all, but at least he's performing recently when given the chance.

You look at what Brian did to his avg and peripherals after TCQ and Wise were out? He had a very nice run when playing every day. Nothing Earth shattering, but Brian covers more ground than Wise (he plays shallower and still gets to the hard hit balls straight away and to the gaps).

Honestly, they should just DFA Gobble and get it over with. If they still need another guy in the pen and need to send someone down, then this is going to be a potential issue., but Wise has no value, IMO, and doesn't do anything Brian hasn't been able to do in his career.

Tragg
07-07-2009, 06:56 PM
No, what it means is he is not making more difficult plays than Wise can make.

Has he made plays Wise couldn't? IMO, No!

Rob MacKowiek, yes!

All I know is his bat is more of a liability than his mit and there is no way he makes so many plays in the field to overcome his bad bat and lost RBI. And again, he's had years to improve and it ain't happening. It would be nice to see him adjust! However, doing the same thing time after time is old and booring and ruins the defensive skills he has!
Not only does Anderson make defensive plays that Wise can't make, his offense, mediocre as it is, remains far superior to Wise's. Wise's .259 obp and .550 OPS is simply beyond bad and not worthy of a spot on the 40 man, much less starting, much less leadoff in ozzie-ball.

BadBobbyJenks
07-07-2009, 08:24 PM
If Wise were DFAd he wouldn't be claimed. Guillen (and Cowley, were he a manager) is the only manager in America that would have him on the 40 man. Cowley speculating on whether Wise would accept assignment is almost as laughable as his calling his 2008 performance "solid"

Wise has a career obp of .260; he's hitting .191 this year and has an ops of .537.
Anderson would obviously bring more in trade, but not that much either. He has value on this team as the team's only plus defender(coupled with a 2009 ops c. 100 points higher than Wise's). Wise is absolutely useless as a bench player because he can't even bring late-inning defense to the party (and he can't hit).


This. There is really no counter to anything in Tragg's post.

BA is not bringing back anything so just keep him in the 4th OF spot and tell Wise to go to Charlotte or find a new living.