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View Full Version : The end of the DH? per Fox Sports


RedHeadPaleHoser
07-02-2009, 06:53 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9753130/Classic-model-of-the-DH-is-fading-away

A few interesting points in there.....but it's more of a Fox opinion of the "DH only" guys.

DumpJerry
07-02-2009, 07:07 AM
:burly
But, I'm just getting warmed up!

white sox bill
07-02-2009, 07:32 AM
He makes some interesting points. But I still like the DH. Maybe we are in a transition era, and in a few short yrs, due to attrition, current DH'ers will retire and be replaced by the sluggers of today who will give up their gloves.

Hitmen77
07-02-2009, 10:06 AM
He makes some interesting points. But I still like the DH. Maybe we are in a transition era, and in a few short yrs, due to attrition, current DH'ers will retire and be replaced by the sluggers of today who will give up their gloves.

Exactly. The DH isn't going anywhere. The "purists" don't fill 30,000 seats. Most fans don't want to see the pitcher bat and often be an easy out.

I'll hazard to guess that most fans who are anti-DH are simply fans of an NL team and are partisan to the way their team does things.

g0g0
07-02-2009, 10:06 AM
I'm kinda torn on this one as it has some history behind it. The time that I really like the DH is when inter-league play is going on. To see someone like Thome taken out of the picture for the Sox or giving a National league team an extra bat is a great twist to the game.

What I want to know is why can't we have more pitchers who can hit? Babe Ruth always comes to mind when thinking about the DH. Zambrano today is another example. While not the best at the plate, he's at least respectable. Pitchers in the NL should work at that or what's the point? Give them the DH too because I'm tired of seeing them retired easily.

eriqjaffe
07-02-2009, 10:18 AM
What I want to know is why can't we have more pitchers who can hit?The DH is used at every level of the minors, as well as in the NCAA. By the time most pitchers make it to the big leagues, they haven't swung a bat with any regularity for several years.

twentywontowin
07-02-2009, 10:19 AM
I'm kinda torn on this one as it has some history behind it. The time that I really like the DH is when inter-league play is going on. To see someone like Thome taken out of the picture for the Sox or giving a National league team an extra bat is a great twist to the game.

What I want to know is why can't we have more pitchers who can hit? Babe Ruth always comes to mind when thinking about the DH. Zambrano today is another example. While not the best at the plate, he's at least respectable. Pitchers in the NL should work at that or what's the point? Give them the DH too because I'm tired of seeing them retired easily.

The reason why you don't see more pitchers who hit well is they often don't work on batting practice, because as far as I know the National League is the only level of professional baseball where there is no DH. So coming up through the system, they likely don't take much BP.

But hell, if Jim Abbot could hit home runs as a pitcher with one hand, any pitcher could.

LITTLE NELL
07-02-2009, 10:40 AM
If I was the GM of an AL team I would want all my players capable of playing the field and would rotate the DH as sort of a rest day. I thought Swisher would fit the bill as a guy who could fill in at all the outfield positions and at 1st base. That way you don't rely on one guy at DH who can't play the field like Thome or Baines (late in his career) and when it comes to playing in NL parks sits like a bump on a log. Thome went 9 straight games recently without starting.

Noneck
07-02-2009, 10:58 AM
If I was the GM of an AL team I would want all my players capable of playing the field and would rotate the DH as sort of a rest day. I thought Swisher would fit the bill as a guy who could fill in at all the outfield positions and at 1st base. That way you don't rely on one guy at DH who can't play the field like Thome or Baines (late in his career) and when it comes to playing in NL parks sits like a bump on a log. Thome went 9 straight games recently without starting.

I don't think I would go as far as you would but I would never want a Thome type as DH. Someone making huge money and can't play any position ever and needs a pinch runner late in games. To me that's a real drain on the 25 man roster. Hopefully the Sox won't put themselves in this position in the future.

TomBradley72
07-02-2009, 11:00 AM
Exactly. The DH isn't going anywhere. The "purists" don't fill 30,000 seats. Most fans don't want to see the pitcher bat and often be an easy out.



The data doesn't back up your claim...NL attendance is pretty much on par with the AL.

Lip Man 1
07-02-2009, 11:16 AM
I don't care what they do as long as both leagues play by the same rules.

Lip

LITTLE NELL
07-02-2009, 11:20 AM
I don't care what they do as long as both leagues play by the same rules.

Lip
Right on.

Huisj
07-02-2009, 11:46 AM
I don't think I would go as far as you would but I would never want a Thome type as DH. Someone making huge money and can't play any position ever and needs a pinch runner late in games. To me that's a real drain on the 25 man roster. Hopefully the Sox won't put themselves in this position in the future.

It is but at the same time it isn't. Because of the DH, there don't tend to be as many opportunities that call for in-game lineup changes that come from pitching changes, so the guys that are there to pinch run are usually available late in the game because there isn't a reason to use them for anything else.

Britt Burns
07-02-2009, 12:03 PM
I don't care what they do as long as both leagues play by the same rules.

Lip


Amen. In a league full of idiotic rules (home field advantage in the playoffs for the winner of the All Star game?), that one group of teams play under a different set of rules than the other has to take the cake.

doublem23
07-02-2009, 12:11 PM
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/8/8b/MLBPA_logo.png
No DH? Over our dead bodies.

doublem23
07-02-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't think I would go as far as you would but I would never want a Thome type as DH. Someone making huge money and can't play any position ever and needs a pinch runner late in games. To me that's a real drain on the 25 man roster. Hopefully the Sox won't put themselves in this position in the future.

.247/.402/.495

He's killing us.

goon
07-02-2009, 12:26 PM
This is always an interesting debate and I think it's more about personal preference than anything else, at least from a fan's perspective. I think the whole "strategy" argument of the National League is pretty overblown, it isn't much more difficult to manage in the NL than the AL. On top of that, I think the pitcher's spot is nearly an automatic-out which is kind of like a handicap. 2 outs with the pitcher on deck? Just go around the hitter and go after the pitcher because he won't hit.

TDog
07-02-2009, 12:27 PM
If I was the GM of an AL team I would want all my players capable of playing the field and would rotate the DH as sort of a rest day. I thought Swisher would fit the bill as a guy who could fill in at all the outfield positions and at 1st base. That way you don't rely on one guy at DH who can't play the field like Thome or Baines (late in his career) and when it comes to playing in NL parks sits like a bump on a log. Thome went 9 straight games recently without starting.


In 1973, when the three-year-experiment began, some teams took this approach. the teams that took the approach of having a regular DH got much more productivity out of the position. Some players said they couldn't get into the game when they were DHing. There was no interleague play at the time, and even now, the Sox only played three series in NL parks.

Bobby Thigpen was an All-American designated hitter at Mississippi State, and had a great season in the wood-bat amateur Alaska league one summer (hitting something like .360), playing first base and the outfield exclusively. But when he came to the White Sox, he worked exclusively on his pitching.

Pitchers generally don't hit well because they don't work on their hitting. For the most part, they don't want to take time away from working staying in pitching shape to work on their hitting. When the AL adopted the DH, AL many starting pitchers suddenly got a little better, even though they had to face stronger lineups.

khan
07-02-2009, 12:33 PM
I HATE watching pitchers try to hit. Sure there are the odd few that "can" hit, and it's fun seeing the rare pitcher hit a HR.

But other than that, its boring to me. Watching 2 or 3 free outs in a game when I'm paying the kind of money it costs to go to a game just plain sucks. If a SOX pitcher gets hurt trying to hit or run the bases, I'd be livid.

Bring the DH to the NL, I say.

Red Barchetta
07-02-2009, 12:47 PM
I HATE watching pitchers try to hit. Sure there are the odd few that "can" hit, and it's fun seeing the rare pitcher hit a HR.

But other than that, its boring to me. Watching 2 or 3 free outs in a game when I'm paying the kind of money it costs to go to a game just plain sucks. If a SOX pitcher gets hurt trying to hit or run the bases, I'd be livid.

Bring the DH to the NL, I say.

I agree. I think the article talks more about the evolution of the DH and how teams or more reluctant to spend the extra $$$ for a one-dimensional player, rather another fourth outfielder or fifth infielder who can rotate through the DH position allowing position players the occassional 1/2 game off.

I never understood how pitchers look so bad when batting. Most of the best ballplayers I knew when growing up were pitchers. Even the guys who made it to the pros could always hit. I know once you're in a pro organization, they will specialize your training etc., but some pitchers looks as though they forgot how to hold a bat! :scratch:

Noneck
07-02-2009, 01:00 PM
.247/.402/.495

He's killing us.

That's not my point. My point was, there is a better way in selecting a DH for the future.

Noneck
07-02-2009, 01:05 PM
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/8/8b/MLBPA_logo.png
No DH? Over our dead bodies.

I agree it will never happen. Another thing I think about, would Thomas or Thome have a shot at the hall without the DH? Thomes career would have ended in 05 and Thomas in 03? Is that good for baseball, I don't know.

Boondock Saint
07-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Exactly. The DH isn't going anywhere. The "purists" don't fill 30,000 seats. Most fans don't want to see the pitcher bat and often be an easy out.

The data doesn't back up your claim...NL attendance is pretty much on par with the AL.

Your logic is flawed, Tom, or at least your argument is. Not all NL fans are "Anti-DH loyalists", and not all AL fans are "DH loyalists". If fans cared so much about the DH, perhaps the attendances would be different depending on whether their local team employed it. But that's not the case, and fans are going to go to baseball games regardless.

But what Hitmen77 was saying is that he thinks that most baseball fans would prefer to see a pitcher facing a professional batter rather than see a pitcher get a quick, easy out once every nine batters. And I agree with that.

Paulwny
07-03-2009, 12:18 PM
The player's union will be up in arms if the owners try to eliminate the DH. Most DH's make a good buck.
Most NL owners are against the DH because of a payroll increase. Bench players are cheaper than DH's.

StillMissOzzie
07-03-2009, 02:57 PM
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/8/8b/MLBPA_logo.png
No DH? Over our dead bodies.

Then get the NL to use the DH too!

SMO
:gulp:

Daver
07-03-2009, 04:09 PM
The player's union will be up in arms if the owners try to eliminate the DH. Most DH's make a good buck.
Most NL owners are against the DH because of a payroll increase. Bench players are cheaper than DH's.

With the cost of starting pitching I doubt owners are going to be in a hurry to let expensive talent risk a non pitching injury, especially to please the fans of NL style baseball, as the NL is the only pro form of baseball that does not use the DH, and some HS divisions have elected to use a DH as well.