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View Full Version : So...........what happen to all of the fire sale proposals?


kitekrazy
06-30-2009, 11:33 PM
Maybe there's a possibility of making a trade or two to improve the team that doesn't involve Dye or Jenks.

I think Dye would be a great future DH for the Sox.
When you have a legit closer, why get rid of him? I would also say the same for Thornton who is a great setup man.

Lip Man 1
06-30-2009, 11:47 PM
I hope it doesn't come down to that but Kenny will keep his options open depending on how the team is doing as late July approaches.

Like Ozzie said, we've seen them play well before only to be disappointed.

Lip

JB98
06-30-2009, 11:49 PM
I think the Sox are still in between. Buyers or sellers? Who knows? The trade deadline is still a month away.....

Tragg
06-30-2009, 11:52 PM
Hold.
I'd still be open for a trade if somone wants to ridiculously overpay - like for Dotel or Linebrink.

kittle42
06-30-2009, 11:53 PM
Kneejerk reaction thread? This has been an up and down season. Let's not act like the ship is permanently righted just yet.

doublem23
06-30-2009, 11:58 PM
Kneejerk reaction thread? This has been an up and down season. Let's not act like the ship is permanently righted just yet.

It's only a kneejerk reaction when it's negative comment after a bad loss. Everyone knows teams that are 1 game over .500 after 77 games are destined for glory.

kitekrazy
06-30-2009, 11:59 PM
Hold.
I'd still be open for a trade if somone wants to ridiculously overpay - like for Dotel or Linebrink.

That's what I was thinking.

kitekrazy
07-01-2009, 12:05 AM
Kneejerk reaction thread? This has been an up and down season. Let's not act like the ship is permanently righted just yet.

Definitely not! I've held the thought all season to let this team play out and see what happens.

It is getting righted to some extent.

Shoeless
07-01-2009, 12:06 AM
Hold.
I'd still be open for a trade if somone wants to ridiculously overpay - like for Dotel or Linebrink.

This seems like the smartest option for a club in our situation. The pitching has been pretty good so far, and the hitting had to come around. We have a young club and we're managing to fit Beckham, Getz, and maybe even Ramirez into their positions where they could be for a long time. If we can do that and win with some veterans, I don't see any reason to have a firesale.


"OH MY GOD! WE'RE HAVING A FIRE!...sale... OH MY GOD! THE BURNING THE BURNING! It hurts me!" -Tobias

kitekrazy
07-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Everyone knows teams that are 1 game over .500 after 77 games are destined for glory.


But....it has happened more than once in baseball. Someone forgot to mention that to the Florida Marlin at one time.

I'm not making a comparison to this year's Sox.

doublem23
07-01-2009, 12:15 AM
But....it has happened more than once in baseball. Someone forgot to mention that to the Florida Marlin at one time.

I'm not making a comparison to this year's Sox.

We've seen this from the 2009 Sox already. Remember when they had that great roadtrip, climbed back to .500 and then bombed during that long homestand? I'm not calling you out, if you've really believed in this team all along, that's great, I hope you're right (:cool:).

That said, if this is the real Gordon Beckham and TCQ comes back healthy in a few weeks, this team will be hard to beat.

chisoxfanatic
07-01-2009, 12:31 AM
That said, if this is the real Gordon Beckham and TCQ comes back healthy in a few weeks, this team will be hard to beat.
Well, is there any reason to believe that Bacon's fakin'?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-01-2009, 12:46 AM
Well, is there any reason to believe that Bacon's fakin'?

The way that Bacon is rakin' has to be leaving our opponents quakin'.

Sorry, had to.

Rohan
07-01-2009, 12:52 AM
http://www.progressiveboink.com/justin/arrested/firesale.jpg

Oh no it's a fire sale!

doublem23
07-01-2009, 12:55 AM
Well, is there any reason to believe that Bacon's fakin'?

Well, considering he only played 85 games last year combined at UGA and in the minor leagues, and he's already up to 67 games between AA, AAA, and the Majors in 2009, its pretty likely he's going to wear down by season's end.

jabrch
07-01-2009, 01:04 AM
I hope it doesn't come down to that but Kenny will keep his options open depending on how the team is doing as late July approaches.

Lip

Any good GM would do the same - right? Depends on how the team is doing, and on what the market is for players as a buyer or a seller.

I don't think I recall seeing most people propose a "fire sale". I recall people saying they'd look at what was out there.

Redus Redux
07-01-2009, 01:21 AM
When you have a legit closer, why get rid of him? I would also say the same for Thornton who is a great setup man.

I want no fire sale, but the one interesting potential trade is Jenks.


it is at least POSSIBLE to make the team better by trading Jenks. I know it would be weird, but if you found a team that was desperate for RH relief........ you could potentially get a good prospect AND a guy who can play now (as long as that team has a surplus at some position of need for us, of which there are several)


and depending who you get back, you clear some of Jenks' money off for FA signings next yr

Foulke You
07-01-2009, 02:19 AM
I want no fire sale, but the one interesting potential trade is Jenks.


it is at least POSSIBLE to make the team better by trading Jenks. I know it would be weird, but if you found a team that was desperate for RH relief........ you could potentially get a good prospect AND a guy who can play now (as long as that team has a surplus at some position of need for us, of which there are several)


and depending who you get back, you clear some of Jenks' money off for FA signings next yr
I don't see how you get better now by trading your very reliable closer. It makes your bullpen thinner and less flexible. Thornton would need to step out of his "swing" role into the closer spot and then wouldn't be available for those key outs in the 7th or 8th inning. Gobble or Poreda would have to be counted upon for the tough lefties late in the game and Dotel and Linebrink would also have to get more work. (and we know how that usually goes for Linebrink on back to back days) If you plan on trying to win this year, you can't trade Bobby Jenks.

Nellie_Fox
07-01-2009, 02:26 AM
I don't see how you get better now by trading your very reliable closer. It makes your bullpen thinner and less flexible. Thornton would need to step out of his "swing" role into the closer spot and then wouldn't be available for those key outs in the 7th or 8th inning. Gobble or Poreda would have to be counted upon for the tough lefties late in the game and Dotel and Linebrink would also have to get more work. (and we know how that usually goes for Linebrink on back to back days) If you plan on trying to win this year, you can't trade Bobby Jenks.And how often do you see left-handed closers? I'm hard-pressed to think of many. Forster? Rocker? Who else? Not many.

Mohoney
07-01-2009, 03:15 AM
And how often do you see left-handed closers? I'm hard-pressed to think of many. Forster? Rocker? Who else? Not many.

The only other ones that come to mind immediately are John Franco and Billy Wagner.

MUsoxfan
07-01-2009, 04:38 AM
The only other ones that come to mind immediately are John Franco and Billy Wagner.

George Sherrill

Thome25
07-01-2009, 05:16 AM
I was watching TV the other day and they said don't expect many teams (if any at all) to be buyers this year because of the bad economy and therefore the reluctance to add more payroll.

doublem23
07-01-2009, 09:26 AM
And how often do you see left-handed closers? I'm hard-pressed to think of many. Forster? Rocker? Who else? Not many.

Current leader in saves in the American League, Brian Fuentes, is a lefty.

I don't know if teams don't like having lefty closers, I think teams like using effective lefty relievers in situational roles.

beasly213
07-01-2009, 09:27 AM
We will be adding an All Star at the trade deadline and won't have to give anything up.

:TCQ:

cws05champ
07-01-2009, 09:33 AM
I think we are still in between here. If we put on a surge and get TCQ back, I think KW will look for a trade that will bring us a guy that has multiple years on his contract, not just a rental. The only place I can see an upgrade (if TCQ comes back) is a SP, maybe 2B and better utility player.

Would be nice to see if we could bring in Halliday...I know he would cost a lot, but could give us a great rotation for the next couple years.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-01-2009, 09:33 AM
This seems like the smartest option for a club in our situation. The pitching has been pretty good so far, and the hitting had to come around. We have a young club and we're managing to fit Beckham, Getz, and maybe even Ramirez into their positions where they could be for a long time. If we can do that and win with some veterans, I don't see any reason to have a firesale.


"OH MY GOD! WE'RE HAVING A FIRE!...sale... OH MY GOD! THE BURNING THE BURNING! It hurts me!" -Tobias

While, I don't know if 3b is going to be Beckham's position long-term, but I too am liking the Getz/Beckham youth movement in the infield. I was listening to Joe Cowley this morning on Mully & Hanley and he was talking about the fact that those two have become clubhouse buddies and they are sitting around, breaking down at-bats and really talking baseball (whereas a lot of young guys talk about girls, etc.). I, for one, am really encouraged by that fact.

asindc
07-01-2009, 09:40 AM
While, I don't know if 3b is going to be Beckham's position long-term, but I too am liking the Getz/Beckham youth movement in the infield. I was listening to Joe Cowley this morning on Mully & Hanley and he was talking about the fact that those two have become clubhouse buddies and they are sitting around, breaking down at-bats and really talking baseball (whereas a lot of young guys talk about girls, etc.). I, for one, am really encouraged by that fact.

Any chance they can get BA to join their discussions? [No teal intended whatesoever]

Demps2
07-01-2009, 09:45 AM
also don't forget, if we play well until AUG and then go south, we still have the waiver wire to use.

downstairs
07-01-2009, 10:01 AM
I think the Sox are still in between. Buyers or sellers? Who knows? The trade deadline is still a month away.....

Which is probably the worst thing.

We're a near-500 team in a division that could be won by a record near 500. Ugh!

Frustrating as a fan, and probably a bad thing for the future of the team (you can't really sell, can't really buy until its all too late).

Lillian
07-01-2009, 11:28 AM
The payroll will drop dramatically next year, giving this team lots of flexibility. They don't have any undesirable long term contracts that they need to trade away.

They also have young players and or viable prospects to fill almost every position for next year, and beyond.

That enviable combination would seem to take the pressure off management to move expensive veterans in favor of prospects.

Without making any trades they have a good nucleus for next year and beyond:
Quentin, Jordan Danks and eventually Jared Mitchell in the outfield
Ramirez, Beckham, Nix, Fields, Getz, Flowers, and Allen, in the infield.
Floyd, Danks, Poreda and a few guys in the Minors who should be ready to bolster either the rotation or the pen.
That still leaves guys like Retherford, Viciedo with positions yet to be determined.

So exactly what holes do they need to fill by trading away Dye, or Konerko? Why not stay right where they are, make a run for it in this very winable division, and figure out who stays, and who goes at the end of the year? If they let Thome, Dye and Dotel walk, they will have plenty of payroll flexibility to add a free agent or two.

What am I missing? I just don't see the need to either dump salary, or bolster the farm system.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-01-2009, 11:41 AM
And how often do you see left-handed closers? I'm hard-pressed to think of many. Forster? Rocker? Who else? Not many.

The only ones I can think of that are playing now are

Brian Fuentes (Angels)
George Sherrill (O's)
BJ Ryan who then lost his job to another lefty in Scott Downs (Jays)

Either way, I wouldn't want to see Jenks traded. He's been the most reliable closer I've seen on the Sox in the last 20 years. That includes Bobby Thigpen who although he had the save record was pretty nerve wracking to watch.

kittle42
07-01-2009, 12:03 PM
Without making any trades they have a good nucleus for next year and beyond:
Quentin, Jordan Danks and eventually Jared Mitchell in the outfield
Ramirez, Beckham, Nix, Fields, Getz, Flowers, and Allen, in the infield.
Floyd, Danks, Poreda and a few guys in the Minors who should be ready to bolster either the rotation or the pen.
That still leaves guys like Retherford, Viciedo with positions yet to be determined.

It's a big assumption that even 1/4 of those guys will be successful major leaguers.

jabrch
07-01-2009, 12:03 PM
Either way, I wouldn't want to see Jenks traded. He's been the most reliable closer I've seen on the Sox in the last 20 years. That includes Bobby Thigpen who although he had the save record was pretty nerve wracking to watch.

Someone would have to come up with a pretty damn special package to get me to bite on trading Bobby. I won't say never - but...

doublem23
07-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Someone would have to come up with a pretty damn special package to get me to bite on trading Bobby. I won't say never - but...

I would be surprised if Jenks is dealt during this season, but after this year I'm not so sure. He's still got 2 years left of arbitration but he's already nearly making $6 million this year. I'm sure it would take the right deal, but if Thome is out after this year, Dye becomes that much more valuable to us/untradeable, Jenks probably is our biggest bargaining chip.

DonnieDarko
07-01-2009, 12:39 PM
Who else would we bring up to help bolster up the bullpen if Jenks was traded, though? Torres? Link?

Lillian
07-01-2009, 12:57 PM
It's a big assumption that even 1/4 of those guys will be successful major leaguers.

Well, of course you're right in that we are talking about several unproven prospects. However, there is sufficient depth of both established young proven players, as well as good prospects, to fill up a Major League roster. The point is that if you trade for young prospects, you still don't know what you'll get from them either. The Sox have the best collection of good looking youngsters that they've had in a long time. They may not have a lot of depth in the farm system, but they have enough really good prospects to justify not having to trade away vets in order to fill the pipeline with a lot of guys who may have less potential than what the organization already has.

AzureJazzMan
07-01-2009, 02:55 PM
I'd like to see them trade away Linebrink and Dotel then slide Poreda over to Linebrink's slot, and bring up Derek Rodriguez and Jon Link from Charlotte

Tragg
07-01-2009, 04:49 PM
Randy Myers was a pretty good lefty reliever for the Mets and Reds - saved a lot of games.

So too was John Franco.

I believe they were traded for each other, too.

I certainly would love for KW to keep Dotel/Linebrink on the block and have someone overpay for one of them. It would help if Colon would come back strong.

TheVulture
07-02-2009, 02:20 AM
It's a big assumption that even 1/4 of those guys will be successful major leaguers.

:teach:Not really, considering 6/13 of them are already successful or borderline successful(I'm looking at you Getz) major leaguers. Poreda's not much of a stretch at making it 7/13. Fields not so much, IMO.

Nellie_Fox
07-02-2009, 02:29 AM
Current leader in saves in the American League, Brian Fuentes, is a lefty.

I don't know if teams don't like having lefty closers, I think teams like using effective lefty relievers in situational roles.
I forgot about Sparky Lyle, who wasn't bad.

However, I think there is a bias against lefty closers because of the abundance of right-handed hitters in most lineups. I'm a big Thornton fan, but I don't think the Sox would make him the closer.

Noneck
07-02-2009, 02:39 AM
I'd like to see them trade away Linebrink and Dotel then slide Poreda over to Linebrink's slot, and bring up Derek Rodriguez and Jon Link from Charlotte

Considering Dotel is a FA after this year and Linebrinks big contract with 2 more years after this, a couple sacks of balls is all the Sox would get.

1989
07-02-2009, 02:56 AM
I'd like to see them trade away Linebrink and Dotel then slide Poreda over to Linebrink's slot, and bring up Derek Rodriguez and Jon Link from Charlotte

No one would take Linebrink because of his contract, but if someone would I would deliver him myself. As for Dotel, the Sox would be better off if they kept him for the remainder of the year and then pick up a compensatory draft pick after the season when someone else signs him

kitekrazy
07-02-2009, 08:19 PM
Who else would we bring up to help bolster up the bullpen if Jenks was traded, though? Torres? Link?

You've figured out it would be a bad move. Most teams would love to have a reliable closer. The Sox still can't fill the hole in CF. It will be a lot harder to find a closer. Thornton is not closer material. It's also a position that can't be dealt with on the cheap.