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Lip Man 1
06-30-2009, 10:04 PM
July 1, 1990 - On the 80th anniversary of the opening of Comiskey Park, the Yankees Andy Hawkins throws a no hitter (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1990/B07010CHA1990.htm). Except for one small problem....he LOSES the game 4 - 0! The Sox get all their runs thanks to back to back fly ball errors courtesy of Jim Leyritz and Jesse Barfield. The Sox Greg Hibbard matches Hawkins pitch for pitch in the early going as he also has a no hitter through the first five and a third innings!

Lip

Woofer
06-30-2009, 10:30 PM
I was there. It was the last time that I was at the old park.

TornLabrum
06-30-2009, 10:33 PM
Let's not forget that it was Hawkins' feat that led MLB to change the rules so that in order to throw a no-hitter, a complete game wouldn't do. You now have to throw nine innings. Which leads me to ask, why didn't they change the rule for complete games while they were at it?

Hitmen77
06-30-2009, 10:42 PM
I can't believe it's been 19 years since that game.

That 1990 team was great. Picked by the "experts" to finish last, 94 wins, but alas stuck behind the 104 win A's in the old 2-division setup. IIRC, Boston won the East with only 88 wins that year.

Lip Man 1
06-30-2009, 10:46 PM
Hal:

I also believe that you have to win it no? (aka Harvey Haddix)

Lip

Zisk77
06-30-2009, 10:49 PM
I can't believe it's been 19 years since that game.

That 1990 team was great. Picked by the "experts" to finish last, 94 wins, but alas stuck behind the 104 win A's in the old 2-division setup. IIRC, Boston won the East with only 88 wins that year.

IIRC we were 8-5 against the A's and 6-6 against the Red Sox. The Red Sox were 0-12 against the A's (0- 15 with the playoffs). Thanks for the help Boston.

doublem23
06-30-2009, 10:54 PM
Let's not forget that it was Hawkins' feat that led MLB to change the rules so that in order to throw a no-hitter, a complete game wouldn't do. You now have to throw nine innings. Which leads me to ask, why didn't they change the rule for complete games while they were at it?

Because you should still get full credit for throwing a complete game if you can only throw 8 innings. Not your fault your offense can't get the job done.

Hal:

I also believe that you have to win it no? (aka Harvey Haddix)

Lip

Nope, you just need to at least throw 9 IP and allow 0 H. Decision not relevant.

kingpin_rcs
06-30-2009, 10:56 PM
I believe the only team to have a winning record against the A's that year was the Sox. 1990 is also the year Bobby Thigpen recorded 57 saves. Great team. If they had the wild card they might have done some real damage in the playoffs. We'll never know.

PhillipsBubba
06-30-2009, 10:57 PM
I always liked Greg Hibbard until he became a Flub:(:

Britt Burns
07-01-2009, 12:13 AM
Until the 2005 WS team, 1990 was my favorite. They won all sorts of games they shouldn't have, the ballpark and accompanying festivities were great, and getting to see guys who you just knew were going to be stars for years to come (McDowell, Ventura, pre-steroid Sammy, then later Frank and Fernandez)...it was all such a blast. Can't believe its been so long ago!

TheVulture
07-01-2009, 12:43 AM
That was one weak lineup the Sox had out that day, with Fisk on the bench. Remember, this was before Ventura started to hit well at the major league level. Six players with OBP below .312 with Calderon and Johnson not much better at .327 and .325. Pasqua led the charge amongst that lineup crew at .347. Good defense, smallball, and pitching on that team, though. Classic Sox.

Redus Redux
07-01-2009, 12:50 AM
I remember this game. So wrong that theytook away this guy's accomplishment to boot.

DumpJerry
07-01-2009, 07:07 AM
I was at that game, too. The Sox scored all their runs in the Eighth After the last out was finally made, Hawkins was halfway off the field when everyone realized that if the Yanks did not score four runs in the top of the Ninth (an impossible feat for the 1990 Yanks), this guy just did a no-no. Everyone got on their feet and gave him an ovation. His head was hanging low and he gave us "see what I have to through this team" wave.

In his next outing, Hawkins went 10 innings against the Twins and lost 1-0.

The Yankees that year tried their darnedest to give George a stroke. They were really, really bad.

Chez
07-01-2009, 08:41 AM
1990 was such a fun season. Low expectations coming in and lots of improbable come back wins. I recall Lee Stevens hitting a homerun off of Thigpen to really deflate the Sox. Jeff Torborg did a great job that year.

Cangelosi CF
07-01-2009, 09:01 AM
I was at that game, sitting in right field, My friends and I were chatting with our fellow Jolietan Jesse Barfield during the game.

downstairs
07-01-2009, 09:10 AM
I still have most of that game on cassette tape. I believe I rushed to begin taping it in the 5th or so, I can't remember.

I don't have a tape player hooked up, but I'd like to transfer it to digital someday.

The take is crappy quality though.

BringBackBlkJack
07-01-2009, 09:11 AM
I was at this game as well. I was barely old enough to remember it as it was a day after my 7th birthday. One thing that stands out in my mind was when one of the fly balls dropped and everyone stood up and cheered, I couldn't see a damn thing... haha.

Jogurt
07-01-2009, 09:18 AM
From the NYT archives...
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/02/sports/no-hitter-but-with-no-glory.html

Sargeant79
07-01-2009, 09:58 AM
I remember that game. I was only 11 years old at the time but was already a rabid baseball fan. I thought that was crazy that a guy could throw a no-no and still lose.

That year was so much fun because it was really the first time the Sox were good in my life (at least the years I can actually remember). And Frank getting called up midseason was great. I remember seeing him live at a game late in the season where he hit a home run that probably didn't get more than 25 feet off the ground. It was just hit that hard.

TDog
07-01-2009, 09:59 AM
Because you should still get full credit for throwing a complete game if you can only throw 8 innings. Not your fault your offense can't get the job done. ...

Clayton Richard got credit for a complete game last night. Gavin Floyd got credit for a complete game shutout with the Phillies in the game where Aaron Rowand broke his nose making a catch with men on base and two outs in the first. The game was stopped by rain after five.

But no hitters are special. You have to pitch at least nine innings to earn one. If you don't have the opportunity to go nine, you didn't have the opportunity to earn one, and your feat is documented, but not with the nine-inning no-hitters.

Certainly, some no-hitters are better than others. Joe Cowley loaded the bases on walks with one out in the sixth (I think) to face Reggie Jackson with one out. A hard line drive only led to a sacrifice fly, however. Cowley got off easy in the ninth, having only to retire two hitters because after a walk, he got a game-ending doubleplay. But he still managed to pitch nine no-hit innings.

Ken Brett in 1976 in Anaheim probably pitched a better game than Hawkins that day in Old Comiskey. But with two outs in the ninth, a routine ground ball that third baseman Jorge Orta couldn't field went for a hit. Official scoring is such an inconsistent thing, but I don't know if any of the eighth-inning Yankees errors would have been ruled hits if Hawkins didn't have a no-hitter going.

Also, Gavin Floyd and Billy Pierce and Stan Bahnsen (among others) pitched no-hitters for eight innings for the Sox before giving up hits in the ninth. Every year more pitchers take no-hitters into the ninth than pitch nine no-hit innings. If they had been losing on the road, they would be able to make the same claim as Andy Hawkins.

Hawkins didn't pitch a no-hitter because, as happened to Ken Brett, his teammates didn't give him a chance.

TornLabrum
07-01-2009, 10:00 AM
If Hawkins didn't pitch a no-hitter, then how many hits did he give up?

TheVulture
07-01-2009, 04:38 PM
But no hitters are special. You have to pitch at least nine innings to earn one. If you don't have the opportunity to go nine, you didn't have the opportunity to earn one, and your feat is documented, but not with the nine-inning no-hitters.


That's the rule now, but it wasn't the case when Hawkins pitched that game. So it is true that Hawkins had a no hitter taken away from him.

Medford Bobby
07-01-2009, 05:55 PM
I remember my sister and I starting a "NO-HITTER! NO-HITTER!" chant in the 8th inning.:o:

TornLabrum
07-01-2009, 08:13 PM
That's the rule now, but it wasn't the case when Hawkins pitched that game. So it is true that Hawkins had a no hitter taken away from him.

Correct. The rule was changed in response because somebody in MLB determined that Hawkins didn't deserve a no-hitter if he lost a regulation game.

The rule as it stands since then is ridiculous. If you're on the visiting team you can't pitch a complete-game no-hitter and lose, but if you're on the hope team you can pitch a complete-game no-hitter and lose.

That's stupid just on the face of it.

Johnny Mostil
07-01-2009, 08:24 PM
I remember that game being a double perfect game until the bottom of the 5th. And, as the NYT article noted, Hibbard retiring the first 16 batters he faced and Hawkins retiring the first 14.

Anybody know what Hawkins is doing today?

waldo_the_wolf
07-02-2009, 02:41 AM
I was at this game as well. I was eight at the time, and as I recall I was most excited because they were giving bats away to all the kids. Interestly, in the bottom of the eighth, after the first two made outs, Sammy Sosa hit a screamer down to the third baseman that clearly was a hit. In fact, the scoreboard immediately put a hit on the board. But since it was a no-hitter, they ruled it E5.

kba
07-02-2009, 09:19 AM
Anybody know what Hawkins is doing today?

No, but here's (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/broward/breaking-news/story/1124294.html) what Jim Leyritz is doing today. Very sad story.

Law11
07-02-2009, 09:27 AM
I remember that game very well. I actually still have it on tape somewhere.
Hibbard and Hawkins and dueling No-nos into the 5th of that game.

Good times..

bigdommer
07-02-2009, 09:53 AM
I was only 10 years old, but I remember being there at the game. Sosa hit an absolute rocket past Blowers to start the rally. And I vividly remember Barfield losing that ball in the sun. I am surprised that more guys don't lose balls in the sun, but I guess with the modern ball parks and the later starts, it's a lot easier to see. IIRC, that was a noon start on a beautiful day, and Old Comiskey was pretty sunny because the back walls were back further from the playing field.