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View Full Version : White Sox Pitching Staff = 2nd in the AL (in ERA that is)


rdivaldi
06-30-2009, 12:09 AM
1. Seattle - 3.64 (wow)
2. Sox - 4.00
3. Other Sox - 4.02
4. Rays - 4.13
5. Tigers - 4.16

I am very pleased and surprised with the performance of the staff this year. I did not think that we'd be in the top 5, much less the top 2.

luke4me1st
06-30-2009, 12:11 AM
now if we can only start hitting like the other sox!

veeter
06-30-2009, 12:15 AM
Seattle's park is pretty huge, no?

jabrch
06-30-2009, 12:24 AM
now if we can only start hitting like the other sox!

Have you watched this team play the past few weeks? In the last 14 games we have scored 80 runs. That's nearly 6 runs per game. During that period of time, your other Sox have scored.... wait for it.... wait for it....




62 runs - 5 runs per game.


We have been 1 run per game better than Boston the past 14 games...without TCQ. This team is not great - but it isn't nearly as bad as people trumpet.

drewcifer
06-30-2009, 12:37 AM
Anyways, to the ERA point, it's amazing what a horribly defending team racking up Errors can do to skew pitching perception and cheapen the ERA stat.

The White Sox and Mariners are the worst defenders in the league.

luke4me1st
06-30-2009, 12:41 AM
Have you watched this team play the past few weeks? In the last 14 games we have scored 80 runs. That's nearly 6 runs per game. During that period of time, your other Sox have scored.... wait for it.... wait for it....




62 runs - 5 runs per game.


We have been 1 run per game better than Boston the past 14 games...without TCQ. This team is not great - but it isn't nearly as bad as people trumpet.

yes our offense is getting hot, hopefully we can keep it up. bacon is making big difference and tcq should be back shortly which will help.

we are still -14 on run diff (scored vs allowed).

Additionally the magic number is 63, that's how many more runs the other sox scored on the season.

jabrch
06-30-2009, 12:46 AM
yes our offense is getting hot, hopefully we can keep it up. bacon is making big difference and tcq should be back shortly which will help.

we are still -14 on run diff (scored vs allowed).

Additionally the magic number is 63, that's how many more runs the other sox scored on the season.

Did you ever doubt we'd hit better when the weather warms up? It seems we do every year. Watch this team now, without the bias of the pain you felt the first 6 weeks of the season. It's not a terrible hitting club.

...and that's with TCQ still on the shelf.

chisoxfanatic
06-30-2009, 12:53 AM
Did you ever doubt we'd hit better when the weather warms up? It seems we do every year. Watch this team now, without the bias of the pain you felt the first 6 weeks of the season. It's not a terrible hitting club.

...and that's with TCQ still on the shelf.
You also have to remember we added a certain ingredient that is the catalyst to the entire offense. We wouldn't be near this good without Scotty Pods.

TheVulture
06-30-2009, 12:59 AM
Anyways, to the ERA point, it's amazing what a horribly defending team racking up Errors can do to skew pitching perception and cheapen the ERA stat.

The White Sox and Mariners are the worst defenders in the league.

Between the pitching and defense, though, they've given up the 4th least total runs.

luke4me1st
06-30-2009, 01:02 AM
if we continue hitting like we have over the last week then we'll win the central by 10 games.

Zakath
06-30-2009, 10:00 AM
Anyways, to the ERA point, it's amazing what a horribly defending team racking up Errors can do to skew pitching perception and cheapen the ERA stat.

The White Sox and Mariners are the worst defenders in the league.

We've given up more unearned runs than anyone in the majors so far - 43. KC is next with 40, whereas the Phillies are the best at 11.

Over 76 games, that's an extra run roughly every other game.

jabrch
06-30-2009, 11:26 AM
We've given up more unearned runs than anyone in the majors so far - 43. KC is next with 40, whereas the Phillies are the best at 11.

Over 76 games, that's an extra run roughly every other game.

If we played league average defense, I wonder what our record would be?

If my grandmother had lugnuts, she'd be an Oldsmobile.

soxfan123
06-30-2009, 11:40 AM
You've got to remember that we have been playing bad NL teams over the past couple weeks. Our offense is not very good over the long run without Carlos Quentin, and I am very unsure if he is ever going to be 100% this season. We can win the division, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

voodoochile
06-30-2009, 11:47 AM
You've got to remember that we have been playing bad NL teams over the past couple weeks. Our offense is not very good over the long run without Carlos Quentin, and I am very unsure if he is ever going to be 100% this season. We can win the division, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Holding one's breath for 3 months is impossible anyway...

thedudeabides
06-30-2009, 11:49 AM
The bullpen has the fourth best era in the AL, right now. I know many have claimed this team to be a bunch of soft tossers, but the Sox are third in the AL in K/9, behind the Yankees and Red Sox.

If they can shore up the defense, this pitching staff has a chance to be pretty good.

NLaloosh
06-30-2009, 12:24 PM
I think that the White Sox are clearly better than every team in the Central except the Twins.

But, the Twins are not any better. If Quentin is productive for the last 2 months the Sox should win it.

TomBradley72
06-30-2009, 12:45 PM
This is the main reason I don't see KW being a seller before the deadline. I think our defense will continue to improve (Beckham, Getz and Ramirez will steadily improve in my opinion), and our offense will as well (same three guys steadily improving). IF TCQ comes back healthy....I like our chances.

DonnieDarko
06-30-2009, 01:16 PM
The bullpen has the fourth best era in the AL, right now. I know many have claimed this team to be a bunch of soft tossers, but the Sox are third in the AL in K/9, behind the Yankees and Red Sox.

If they can shore up the defense, this pitching staff has a chance to be pretty good.

...since when did we think the bullpen was a bunch of soft tossers? With people like Thornton, Jenks, Dotel and Linebrink (who doesn't throw THAT hard, but still at 90+)? Just curious, because I never thought this. I've considered our bullpen to be mostly a collection of "flamethrowers" since about 2006 or 2007.

Hell, even including the starting rotation this isn't true. The only soft tosser on this team is Mark Buerhle, I think.

TDog
06-30-2009, 01:32 PM
Anyways, to the ERA point, it's amazing what a horribly defending team racking up Errors can do to skew pitching perception and cheapen the ERA stat....

I haven't looked it up, but I'm guessing the White Sox have allowed the most unearned runs, or close to it.

Many of the unearned runs Sox pitchers have given up can be blamed on the pitcher. Having to pitch over a error shouldn't excuse a pitcher for giving up three or more runs in an inning. With Colon, it seemed like it was usually more.

The White Sox defense is better with Beckham at third, and the ERA probably reflects that. Beckham has made a few errors that have led to unearned runs, but he is better than Fields at getting to balls. I don't believe there is a way to statistically quantify how many hits Fields allowed at third than Beckham would not have, and certainly Crede and Uribe last year were better at preventing hits than Beckham has been this year.

Anyway, baseball is a team sport. I think a TRA -- a total run average -- would be a more accurate way to measure a pitcher's effectiveness with a team than an ERA. Excusing a pitcher for unearned runs (which in the case of Richard in particularly have been unearned because of his own lack of defense) really ignores the fact that unearned runs still count.

DSpivack
06-30-2009, 02:17 PM
Anyway, baseball is a team sport. I think a TRA -- a total run average -- would be a more accurate way to measure a pitcher's effectiveness with a team than an ERA. Excusing a pitcher for unearned runs (which in the case of Richard in particularly have been unearned because of his own lack of defense) really ignores the fact that unearned runs still count.

The White Sox are allowing 4.51 runs/game, tied for 6th in the AL with Toronto. On average, the AL is allowing 4.66 runs/game.

Ahead of the Sox and Jays are Seattle, Boston, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, and Detroit [in that order].

A quick eyeball look appears that the Sox have the greatest discrepancy between team ERA and runs allowed/game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2009.shtml

102605
06-30-2009, 02:20 PM
1. Seattle - 3.64 (wow)

David Aardsma - 1.49era, 16sv, .160BA (wow wow)

thedudeabides
06-30-2009, 02:40 PM
...since when did we think the bullpen was a bunch of soft tossers? With people like Thornton, Jenks, Dotel and Linebrink (who doesn't throw THAT hard, but still at 90+)? Just curious, because I never thought this. I've considered our bullpen to be mostly a collection of "flamethrowers" since about 2006 or 2007.

Hell, even including the starting rotation this isn't true. The only soft tosser on this team is Mark Buerhle, I think.


There was a lot of discussion in the offseason about how this team wouldn't be able to strike anyone out, especially with the departure of Vasquez, and that would lead to a regression for the staff, as a whole. Some of the talk revolved around defensive concerns, because this staff was just going to pitch to contact.

Half that turned out to be true. This defense has been worse than anyone imagined, but the staff is striking a lot of people out.

jabrch
06-30-2009, 02:43 PM
David Aardsma - 1.49era, 16sv, .160BA (wow wow)

This is why I hate rushing to judgement on a talented arm like Aardsma.

drewcifer
06-30-2009, 03:17 PM
This is why I hate rushing to judgement on a talented arm like Aardsma.

Nick Masset.

twinsuck
06-30-2009, 03:20 PM
I thought pitching was going to be a problem this year. I'm surprised.

LoveYourSuit
06-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Have you watched this team play the past few weeks? In the last 14 games we have scored 80 runs. That's nearly 6 runs per game. During that period of time, your other Sox have scored.... wait for it.... wait for it....




62 runs - 5 runs per game.


We have been 1 run per game better than Boston the past 14 games...without TCQ. This team is not great - but it isn't nearly as bad as people trumpet.


Very small sample size.

This offense based on season numbers stinks this year.

Those pitching numbers are evidence of how much this offense has stunk. We should be 10 games over .500 with those pitching numbers had we hit a lick.


Hopefully we can turn it around.

LoveYourSuit
06-30-2009, 03:29 PM
I think that the White Sox are clearly better than every team in the Central except the Twins.

But, the Twins are not any better. If Quentin is productive for the last 2 months the Sox should win it.

I too fear the Twins.

The Twins are hanging around .500 and won't go away.

soxfanreggie
06-30-2009, 03:36 PM
TDA,

I'm not sure what you meant with how shoring up the defense has to do with the pitching staff being real good. Are you talking about the pitchers making errors themselves? What I interpreted with what you meant to say is that our team has a chance to be real good. A pitcher can be great and still be let down by a shaky defense. Some pitchers just aren't strike-out pitchers, but if they are getting the ground balls and pop flies and we aren't making the plays, I wouldn't credit that to the pitchers as a negatives.

Huisj
06-30-2009, 03:37 PM
This is why I hate rushing to judgement on a talented arm like Aardsma.

Oh come on, those stats look a lot like his pre-Cubs series stats from a few years ago with the Sox. Up to the blowup against the Cubs, his numbers were:

22 IP
1.64 ERA
27 K
9 BB
.184 BA

He's always been like that where he's great in spurts because he throws real hard. He also throws real straight and he can get wild, and when things go a little bit off, the results are scary.

It's not like the White Sox are the only team that noticed this. He's been with a different team every year of his career since he got to the big leagues. He was dominant for a while with the Red Sox last year and ended up with an ERA over 5. This year, for as dominant as he's been, he's walked 22 guys in 36 innings.