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Lip Man 1
06-29-2009, 10:56 PM
Seems the San Francisco Giants are watching Jermaine Dye, that according to Mark Gonzales (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-30-sox-brite-chicago-jun30,0,3858822.story) of the Chicago Tribune.

With a month before the trading deadline you still don't know which way Kenny Williams will go...he says he's a buyer but ultimately that depends on how the White Sox play doesn't it?

Lip

Taliesinrk
06-29-2009, 10:59 PM
Even if the Sox are sellers... I think Dye needs to be on the south side for AT LEAST 1, if not 2-3 more years.

Baron
06-29-2009, 11:00 PM
Even if the Sox are sellers... I think Dye needs to be on the south side for AT LEAST 1, if not 2-3 more years.


If you get a good offer though....

JermaineDye05
06-29-2009, 11:01 PM
If you get a good offer though....

Lincecum/Cain/Sanchez for Dye/Fields/Richard

Get it done, Kenny.

LoveYourSuit
06-29-2009, 11:04 PM
Lincecum/Cain/Sanchez for Dye/Fields/Richard

Get it done, Kenny.



Richard and Fields makes that deal off balance.

They are untradeable in my book :tongue:

doublem23
06-29-2009, 11:05 PM
Richard and Fields makes that deal off balance.

They are untradeable in my book :tongue:

What kind of rebuilding process are you in when you trade away young players?!?!?!

:o:

LoveYourSuit
06-29-2009, 11:06 PM
What kind of rebuilding process are you in when you trade away young players?!?!?!

:o:


Kenny just doesn't learn. Always trading away the future.

DirtySox
06-29-2009, 11:07 PM
The return on Dye would all depend on who pays what amount of Dye's remaining contract this year. With the increasing value of top prospects to teams, it doesn't seem like a trade of Dye would be all that fruitful.

chaotic8512
06-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Even if the Sox are sellers... I think Dye needs to be on the south side for AT LEAST 1, if not 2-3 more years.

Agreed. He's looking better than ever. It would have to be a pretty overwhelming deal to even consider, especially if we remain in the playoff hunt. Imagine a Dye-less outfield of Quentin/Anderson/Pods (decent), and if Q is still hurting, Wise/Anderson/Pods (words can't describe).

kevingrt
06-29-2009, 11:13 PM
Lincecum/Cain/Sanchez for Dye/Fields/Richard

Get it done, Kenny.

Unfair. Aaron must be included.

Lip Man 1
06-29-2009, 11:13 PM
Double:

If the young players he trades away aren't any good in the first place and he can get something for them, I call that being very smart.

Do the names oh, Jeremy Reed, Royce Ring or Matt Guerrier ring a bell?

And for the record I'd like to see Dye signed to a two year deal and moved to DH.

Lip

voodoochile
06-29-2009, 11:14 PM
Kenny just doesn't learn. Always trading away the future.

If that's our future, just shoot me now...

doublem23
06-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Double:

If the young players he trades away aren't any good in the first place and he can get something for them, I call that being very smart.

http://vthumb.ak.facebook.com/vthumb-ak-sf2p/v221/16/69/568168246/t568168246_20432483246_1420.jpg
Yah, dat's da joke.

SoxFan88
06-29-2009, 11:26 PM
Unless Buster Posey is coming back in return I'd hang onto JD.

balke
06-29-2009, 11:30 PM
Double:

If the young players he trades away aren't any good in the first place and he can get something for them, I call that being very smart.

Do the names oh, Jeremy Reed, Royce Ring or Matt Guerrier ring a bell?

And for the record I'd like to see Dye signed to a two year deal and moved to DH.

Lip



Who's this Jeremy Reed guy? Anyone? I'd like to have a discussion about him now please. I googled him and found out he's going to hit .400 and go into the Hall of Fame. Is this true?

DSpivack
06-29-2009, 11:37 PM
Unless Buster Posey is coming back in return I'd hang onto JD.

That kid has a great name. He sounds like he should be a minor character in Public Enemies, or a boxer.

kevingrt
06-29-2009, 11:38 PM
Who's this Jeremy Reed guy? Anyone? I'd like to have a discussion about him now please. I googled him and found out he's going to hit .400 and go into the Hall of Fame. Is this true?

You have mistaken him for the great Chris Young.

chisoxfanatic
06-29-2009, 11:39 PM
Kenny just doesn't learn. Always trading away the future.
Kenny has brought us the only World Series championship Chicago has seen in 9 decades. I think Kenny knows a thing or two more than we do. He's nothing but a shrewd businessman.

balke
06-29-2009, 11:41 PM
You have mistaken him for the great Chris Young.


I googled this Chris Young. It says "The Next Albert Pujols". He sounds pretty good too.

doublem23
06-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Kenny has brought us the only World Series championship Chicago has seen in 9 decades. I think Kenny knows a thing or two more than we do. He's nothing but a shrewd businessman.

We're also joking.

I wouldn't mind hanging onto Richard, I think he could be a very valuable lefty out of the 'pen, but at this point, KW can't get rid of Josh Fields fast enough for my tastes.

veeter
06-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Kenny was barely a seller in 2007. I guarantee he's thinking division championship. The Sox are really rounding into shape. He's going to be buying. As far as Jermaine, with Thome more than likely gone after this season, JD has to be retained. The guy is a model citizen, willing to not break the bank. IMO, no way Kenny moves him.

DSpivack
06-29-2009, 11:42 PM
We're also joking.

I wouldn't mind hanging onto Richard, I think he could be a very valuable lefty out of the 'pen, but at this point, KW can't get rid of Josh Fields fast enough for my tastes.

I wouldn't mind trading him to Seattle for Joshua Fields.

Is the pitcher Josh Fields still in the Sox organization?

Tragg
06-29-2009, 11:44 PM
If you get a good offer though....

Giants are a pretty good team** and they could really use a hitter like JD.

We need him, too, but I do wonder what they have in mind.

**I thought that they were the worst team in the majors last year when we played them.

doublem23
06-29-2009, 11:45 PM
I wouldn't mind trading him to Seattle for Joshua Fields.

Is the pitcher Josh Fields still in the Sox organization?

No, that Joshua Fields was the Mariners' 1st round pick in last years draft, and was a teammate of Gordon Beckham at UGA. I have no idea what happened to our other Josh Fields, he made it to Charlotte in 2005, but then bottomed out and spent 2006 and 2007 in the lower levels of the Sox minor league system. He pitched for Newark in the Atlantic League in 2008.

Maybe he caught "it."

balke
06-29-2009, 11:48 PM
Kenny was barely a seller in 2007. I guarantee he's thinking division championship. The Sox are really rounding into shape. He's going to be buying. As far as Jermaine, with Thome more than likely gone after this season, JD has to be retained. The guy is a model citizen, willing to not break the bank. IMO, no way Kenny moves him.


JD can come back after this season or at least 2011?. He can play in sunny SF and be happy, maybe on a title run. The Sox can get a great young building peace. The Sox compete and get younger in the meantime...

This is a very real scenario. I love JD and hope he's around in the future. Right now though, he's worth a LOT.

DSpivack
06-29-2009, 11:48 PM
No, that Joshua Fields was the Mariners' 1st round pick in last years draft, and was a teammate of Gordon Beckham at UGA. I have no idea what happened to our other Josh Fields, he made it to Charlotte in 2005, but then bottomed out and spent 2006 and 2007 in the lower levels of the Sox minor league system. He pitched for Newark in the Atlantic League in 2008.

Maybe he caught "it."

That's a shame. I was hoping to one day see Josh Fields and Josh Fields as teammates. I assume two players with the same name have never been teammates before.

jabrch
06-29-2009, 11:49 PM
Seems the San Francisco Giants are watching Jermaine Dye, that according to Mark Gonzales (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-30-sox-brite-chicago-jun30,0,3858822.story) of the Chicago Tribune.

With a month before the trading deadline you still don't know which way Kenny Williams will go...he says he's a buyer but ultimately that depends on how the White Sox play doesn't it?

Lip

It largely depends on the market...

For the moment, let's assume this team doesn't fall more than 7 games out. Anywhere between 4 and 7 you can justify going either way if the market dictates. If SFG wants Dye and is willing to part with Posney or Bumgarner...then I'd imagine KW listens. Kenny will not overplay his hand. He will bluff - and talk a ton - but we will never hear a word about what he REALLY is interested in until it is done.

veeter
06-29-2009, 11:52 PM
JD can come back after this season or at least 2011?. He can play in sunny SF and be happy, maybe on a title run. The Sox can get a great young building peace. The Sox compete and get younger in the meantime...

This is a very real scenario. I love JD and hope he's around in the future. Right now though, he's worth a LOT.I think Dye has an option for next season. But if he's traded, now the Sox are two outfielders short. Could SF be scouting Dotel, Linebrink or Thornton?

JohnTucker0814
06-29-2009, 11:52 PM
Giants have a lot of young talent, Bumgardner, Villalona, Posey... I don't think we'd get any of these for Dye... but why not ask, right?

On another note, why are we talking about trading our best hitter? Aren't we still in this race? I'm all for a sale of our vets if we are out of it, but we've been playing good ball.

Should we get a Rachel Phelps cardboard cutout and start counting down the wins that we need to get to the playoffs? :D:

doublem23
06-29-2009, 11:54 PM
Giants have a lot of young talent, Bumgardner, Villalona, Posey... I don't think we'd get any of these for Dye... but why not ask, right?

On another note, why are we talking about trading our best hitter? Aren't we still in this race? I'm all for a sale of our vets if we are out of it, but we've been playing good ball.

Should we get a Rachel Phelps cardboard cutout and start counting down the wins that we need to get to the playoffs? :D:

If the current Tigers-A's score holds up another 3 innings, we're only 4 games out of 1st place, so yes, we're still (somehow) very much alive.

Tragg
06-29-2009, 11:55 PM
On another note, why are we talking about trading our best hitter? Aren't we still in this race? I'm all for a sale of our vets if we are out of it, but we've been playing good ball.

I'msure we won't - unless we get something really really good in return.

On a side note, re Fields, at least he can hit a homer. That makes him useful in a bench role - down 2 in the 9th with 1 on, he's someone to put at the plate.

balke
06-29-2009, 11:57 PM
I think Dye has an option for next season. But if he's traded, now the Sox are two outfielders short. Could SF be scouting Dotel, Linebrink or Thornton?

I think the sox are considering letting him go in the first place so they can hang on to Pods in LF, and get Quentin to move to RF as he's almost ready to play.

I just thought now.... could be a swap Dye for Rowand to play CF, send Anderson or Wise and Fields maybe a pitcher prospect, and get a good prospect back.

Sox get stuck with a bad contract, get a better overall CFer, and a good (hopefully top) prospect. Pods-Rowand-Quentin.

veeter
06-29-2009, 11:59 PM
Giants have a lot of young talent, Bumgardner, Villalona, Posey... I don't think we'd get any of these for Dye... but why not ask, right?

On another note, why are we talking about trading our best hitter? Aren't we still in this race? I'm all for a sale of our vets if we are out of it, but we've been playing good ball.

Should we get a Rachel Phelps cardboard cutout and start counting down the wins that we need to get to the playoffs? :D:Hell yea, we're in this thing. Kenny and Buddy Bell know for sure, but isn't our farm system suddenly loaded? Do weed need more prospects when you've got studs at three levels? I totally agree, trading Dye makes no sense if you plan on winning this divsion.

veeter
06-30-2009, 12:02 AM
I think the sox are considering letting him go in the first place so they can hang on to Pods in LF, and get Quentin to move to RF as he's almost ready to play.

I just thought now.... could be a swap Dye for Rowand to play CF, send Anderson or Wise and Fields maybe a pitcher prospect, and get a good prospect back.

Sox get stuck with a bad contract, get a better overall CFer, and a good (hopefully top) prospect. Pods-Rowand-Quentin.This all depends on Carlos' health. If Dye were traded, the Sox would have to be 100% sure Quentin was ready. I just don't see that.

balke
06-30-2009, 12:07 AM
Hell yea, we're in this thing. Kenny and Buddy Bell know for sure, but isn't our farm system suddenly loaded? Do weed need more prospects when you've got studs at three levels? I totally agree, trading Dye makes no sense if you plan on winning this divsion.

We always hear about prospects... doesn't mean that much. There are prospects Hawk talks up, and then there are can't miss top flight prospects. Yes, the Sox could use some more. There's a young base here, and there's a chance to quickly form a solid young inexpensive team. If you have that, you can add top flight free agent pitchers and hitters going forward.

veeter
06-30-2009, 12:11 AM
We always hear about prospects... doesn't mean that much. There are prospects Hawk talks up, and then there are can't miss top flight prospects. Yes, the Sox could use some more. There's a young base here, and there's a chance to quickly form a solid young inexpensive team. If you have that, you can add top flight free agent pitchers and hitters going forward.Very true. If SF was willing to part with 'their' Beckham, you'd have to listen.

DirtySox
06-30-2009, 12:25 AM
San Fran isn't going to part with Posey or MadBum for a JD rental. That would be idiotic.

balke
06-30-2009, 12:31 AM
San Fran isn't going to part with Posey or MadBum for a JD rental. That would be idiotic.

You see a straight up deal. The Sox have pieces to add, there's a lot of possibilities in a trade. Don't downplay Dye's value either, he's less underrated now that he's proven he can stay healthy, and since he was basically AL MVP if the Sox made the playoffs in 2006. He also plays defense in RF to go along with it. Right now, he's definitely THE most valuable bat available in all of baseball if he is available.

JB98
06-30-2009, 12:31 AM
If Dye gets traded, I'll be furious. That would mean we are done for 2009, and likely for 2010 as well.

Keep Dye and make him the DH next year. He's still our best player, and I think he's essential to any hope of contending for the remainder of this year and next season as well.

voodoochile
06-30-2009, 12:36 AM
If Dye gets traded, I'll be furious. That would mean we are done for 2009, and likely for 2010 as well.

Keep Dye and make him the DH next year. He's still our best player, and I think he's essential to any hope of contending for the remainder of this year and next season as well.

I don't see any reason he has to become a full time DH next year. He's still getting it done in RF way more often than not and his arm is still strong. I'd like to see the Sox sign a LH corner OF/1B type who can spell all of the big guns and keep everyone fresh by rotating around between TCQ, Paullie and Dye and the DH slot. I've mentioned it before but if they could actually swing a trade for Dunn from the Nationals, I would be really happy. He'd make a perfect replacement for JT's LH power bat in the middle of the lineup and has spent time at LF/RF/1B this year (mostly LF). Nationals are a LONG way from contending for anything. I don't see them wanting to continue throwing money at Dunn next year. Sox should be able to get him fairly cheap I would think if they took on all the salary (though that would eat up a big chunk of the money freed up from Contreras and Thome). If they could get the Nats to take a portion of the single year contract it would be just perfect.

balke
06-30-2009, 12:38 AM
If Dye gets traded, I'll be furious. That would mean we are done for 2009, and likely for 2010 as well.

Keep Dye and make him the DH next year. He's still our best player, and I think he's essential to any hope of contending for the remainder of this year and next season as well.


There'd definitely be an uproar. You have to step back at a point and make tough choices. Fans only want high returns on players at a low point in their career. If this was 2007 everyone would be begging Dye to be gone for next to nothing. Fans are fickle.

I could stand a one year wait if the Sox got a great player in return. Dye could be back as soon as next season.

Britt Burns
06-30-2009, 12:39 AM
San Fran isn't going to part with Posey or MadBum for a JD rental. That would be idiotic.

No lie. Those two aren't going anywhere.

DirtySox
06-30-2009, 12:39 AM
You see a straight up deal. The Sox have pieces to add, there's a lot of possibilities in a trade. Don't downplay Dye's value either, he's less underrated now that he's proven he can stay healthy, and since he was basically AL MVP if the Sox made the playoffs in 2006. He also plays defense in RF to go along with it. Right now, he's definitely THE most valuable bat available in all of baseball if he is available.

I guarantee that neither will be traded. MadBum and Price are the top two pitching prospects in all of baseball, and Posey is arguably the best catching prospect behind Wieters.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alderson is available though.

jabrch
06-30-2009, 12:40 AM
If Dye gets traded, I'll be furious. That would mean we are done for 2009, and likely for 2010 as well.

Keep Dye and make him the DH next year. He's still our best player, and I think he's essential to any hope of contending for the remainder of this year and next season as well.

Come on...that's a bit much isn't it?

Trading Dye now would not eliminate us from contention in 2010. That's silly.

JB98
06-30-2009, 12:43 AM
I don't see any reason he has to become a full time DH next year. He's still getting it done in RF way more often than not and his arm is still strong. I'd like to see the Sox sign a LH corner OF/1B type who can spell all of the big guns and keep everyone fresh by rotating around between TCQ, Paullie and Dye and the DH slot. I've mentioned it before but if they could actually swing a trade for Dunn from the Nationals, I would be really happy. He'd make a perfect replacement for JT's LH power bat in the middle of the lineup and has spent time at LF/RF/1B this year (mostly LF). Nationals are a LONG way from contending for anything. I don't see them wanting to continue throwing money at Dunn next year. Sox should be able to get him fairly cheap I would think if they took on all the salary (though that would eat up a big chunk of the money freed up from Contreras and Thome). If they could get the Nats to take a portion of the single year contract it would be just perfect.

I like the idea of having a DH who is still capable of playing the field. We really haven't had that in awhile. It would provide a little more flexibility over the course of the season, and it would make road games during interleague play a little easier to stomach.

Jermaine still plays a decent RF, even though he's clearly lost a couple steps. It was concerning to me that JD had no home runs in September last season. I thought the wear and tear of a long season started to take a toll on him. At this stage of his career, I think he could benefit from a little less time spent running around the outfield.

balke
06-30-2009, 12:48 AM
I don't see any reason he has to become a full time DH next year. He's still getting it done in RF way more often than not and his arm is still strong. I'd like to see the Sox sign a LH corner OF/1B type who can spell all of the big guns and keep everyone fresh by rotating around between TCQ, Paullie and Dye and the DH slot. I've mentioned it before but if they could actually swing a trade for Dunn from the Nationals, I would be really happy. He'd make a perfect replacement for JT's LH power bat in the middle of the lineup and has spent time at LF/RF/1B this year (mostly LF). Nationals are a LONG way from contending for anything. I don't see them wanting to continue throwing money at Dunn next year. Sox should be able to get him fairly cheap I would think if they took on all the salary (though that would eat up a big chunk of the money freed up from Contreras and Thome). If they could get the Nats to take a portion of the single year contract it would be just perfect.


*Shudder* Adam Dunn. It's like Swisher with more power...

I respect your opinion, but I'd like to see a better batting avg. at DH. Dunn isn't a terrible idea... but the pain of strikeouts and hitting .250 is not what I want to see anymore on this field.

balke
06-30-2009, 12:56 AM
I guarantee that neither will be traded. MadBum and Price are the top two pitching prospects in all of baseball, and Posey is arguably the best catching prospect behind Wieters.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alderson is available though.

The Sox can throw Poreda Richard and Fields into a deal with Dye and get pretty much any prospect they want, I can pretty much guarantee that.
There's always a deal to be made. If SF really has 2 top pitching prospects, and cain, and Zito, and Lincecum... they are willing to part with someone, trust me. The only guy they can't get no matter the deal is Lincecum I'd say.

Really the first thought that comes to mind without going into SF's farm, is Cain. If they do have pitchers waiting in the wings, they are probably willing to part ways with him.

DirtySox
06-30-2009, 01:01 AM
The Sox can throw Poreda Richard and Fields into a deal with Dye and get pretty much any prospect they want, I can pretty much guarantee that.
There's always a deal to be made. If SF really has 2 top pitching prospects, and cain, and Zito, and Lincecum... they are willing to part with someone, trust me. The only guy they can't get no matter the deal is Lincecum I'd say.

Really the first thought that comes to mind without going into SF's farm, is Cain. If they do have pitchers waiting in the wings, they are probably willing to part ways with him.

You are way off base. Fields has little to no trade value. Richard profiles as a 5th starter or a reliever, Dye is an aging expensive rental, and Poreda is a borderline SP who might end up in the pen. This package will not net you any prospect you want. Especially prospects that are considered "can't miss," and will be easily cost controlled for years.

35th and Shields
06-30-2009, 01:11 AM
The Sox can throw Poreda Richard and Fields into a deal with Dye and get pretty much any prospect they want, I can pretty much guarantee that.
There's always a deal to be made. If SF really has 2 top pitching prospects, and cain, and Zito, and Lincecum... they are willing to part with someone, trust me. The only guy they can't get no matter the deal is Lincecum I'd say.

Really the first thought that comes to mind without going into SF's farm, is Cain. If they do have pitchers waiting in the wings, they are probably willing to part ways with him.

I think your putting way to much value into our "prospects".

DirtySox
06-30-2009, 01:17 AM
The article was updated and says that scouts might have been there to see Victor Martinez instead/as well.

balke
06-30-2009, 01:23 AM
You are way off base. Fields has little to no trade value. Richard profiles as a 5th starter or a reliever, Dye is an aging expensive rental, and Poreda is a borderline SP who might end up in the pen. This package will not net you any prospect you want. Especially prospects that are considered "can't miss," and will be easily cost controlled for years.


You under value Sox players. I would actually be quite angry if the Sox sent all this for one top prospect pitcher (unless it were Lincecum). There's a million ways to deal as well.

November 14, 2003: San Francisco Giants trade Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano and Boof Bonser to the Minnesota Twins for A.J. Pierzynski.

I'm really sure the Giants would never trade a good prospect. :rolleyes:

Let me clarify though. I wouldn't rule out all 3 prospects mentioned as untouchable. Dye is more valuable than Sox fans think. And there's a lot of talent on this team that could go into a trade. Don't forget Jenks, Thornton, Dotel, Linebrink. Poreda right now is looking damn good to anyone that's seen him so far.

balke
06-30-2009, 01:24 AM
I think your putting way to much value into our "prospects".

Padres didn't seem to think so.

Konerko05
06-30-2009, 01:34 AM
I think the sox are considering letting him go in the first place so they can hang on to Pods in LF, and get Quentin to move to RF as he's almost ready to play.

I just thought now.... could be a swap Dye for Rowand to play CF, send Anderson or Wise and Fields maybe a pitcher prospect, and get a good prospect back.

Sox get stuck with a bad contract, get a better overall CFer, and a good (hopefully top) prospect. Pods-Rowand-Quentin.

Since Quentin can't stay healthy, how about we just trade Quentin for Rowand?

An outfield of Podsednik-Rowand-Dye seems World Series caliber.

ode to veeck
06-30-2009, 01:35 AM
If the current Tigers-A's score holds up another 3 innings, we're only 4 games out of 1st place, so yes, we're still (somehow) very much alive.

and with a damn good pitching staff rounding into shape, pitching wins playoffs

balke
06-30-2009, 01:38 AM
Since Quentin can't stay healthy, how about we just trade Quentin for Rowand?

An outfield of Podsednik-Rowand-Dye seems World Series caliber.


Cause one guy is MVP material, and the other is an aging CFer who would bat #6 or #7 in this lineup. I guess it depends what's coming back. Rowand has a terrible contract, Quentin has a stellar contract. Sox would definitely be getting a top prospect in that kind of deal.

Konerko05
06-30-2009, 01:43 AM
Cause one guy is MVP material, and the other is an aging CFer who would bat #6 or #7 in this lineup. I guess it depends what's coming back. Rowand has a terrible contract, Quentin has a stellar contract. Sox would definitely be getting a top prospect in that kind of deal.

Yeah, I'm one of those people who refuses to use teal.

balke
06-30-2009, 01:47 AM
Yeah, I'm one of those people who refuses to use teal.

Oh, well you gotta be more sarcastic. Some people on this board would say that in seriousness.

doublem23
06-30-2009, 02:05 AM
Padres didn't seem to think so.

The reason they were willing to give up Peavy for so little is because the Sox were prepared to take all of Peavy's salary off their hands.

balke
06-30-2009, 02:11 AM
The reason they were willing to give up Peavy for so little is because the Sox were prepared to take all of Peavy's salary off their hands.

I know, but he offered no argument so I offered a false argument. Still though, look at Cabrera being traded for Maybin, Miller, (2 top 10 prospects in 07') and they got to dump Willis. The idea that Dye can't net a top prospect from the Giants seems silly to me. Especially with some of the talent the Sox could throw in to that deal.

Poreda is pitching great so far, Richard could be helped by the NL, and Fields isn't done for good. He's shown the power, he might just need a change of scenery (Or some warm weather) to bring it out.

bigdommer
06-30-2009, 08:09 AM
San Fran isn't going to part with Posey or MadBum for a JD rental. That would be idiotic.

Dye would not be a one year rental, because if he gets dealt, the "club" option becomes a "player" option for $12MM. There is no way JD turns down that kind of money to play close to home in the NL in a nice park for an improving ball club.

munchman33
06-30-2009, 08:27 AM
We just got back to .500 in a crappy division. Why on earth are we talking about trading our best hitter? :?:

Trading a bad contract like Konerko's if they feel Allen is ready would make some sense. But trading Dye? You'd have to get back a significant major league star piece.

KenBerryGrab
06-30-2009, 08:56 AM
This is more wishful thinking being employed on the Giants' side.

"Who could we get?"

"Dye?"

bigdommer
06-30-2009, 09:17 AM
This is more wishful thinking being employed on the Giants' side.

"Who could we get?"

"Dye?"

It's not that far fetched by the Giants. They were probably thinking, "Who was on the market last offseason? Is their team .500 or worse? Would he want to play here?"

Dye fits that discription. Although, if you don't have someone scouting every team in July, you are not doing your job.

hawkjt
06-30-2009, 09:36 AM
Dye would not be a one year rental, because if he gets dealt, the "club" option becomes a "player" option for $12MM. There is no way JD turns down that kind of money to play close to home in the NL in a nice park for an improving ball club.


Mully and Hanley just said that the mutual option for Dye pays him 15 million next year. I had always heard 12. Anyone know the real number?

JD is worth it, but I would prefer 12 so Kenny has more flex to add more FA talent. They also said that JD has the no trade but if a trade is done, next year is guaranteed so that might be inducement for JD to approve.

bigdommer
06-30-2009, 10:09 AM
The original deal was a 2 year deal worth $22 MM guaranteed with a mutual option for 2010 at $12MM.

2008 - $9.5MM
2009 - $11.5MM
2010 - $1MM (buyout) or $12MM (club option)

That info is from the official press release when he signed the extension. Per the trib, the mutual option becomes a player option if traded. The "cost" of Dye for 2010 for the Sox is generally referred to as $11MM because they are on the hook for the $1MM no matter what.

TomBradley72
06-30-2009, 11:00 AM
We just got back to .500 in a crappy division. Why on earth are we talking about trading our best hitter? :?:

Trading a bad contract like Konerko's if they feel Allen is ready would make some sense. But trading Dye? You'd have to get back a significant major league star piece.

I'd hate to see PK go. He's having a great year defensively, and he's on pace for a .286-25-95 season...I'd like to see us keep PK through the end of his contract next season..then Allen can step in. Replacing him with Allen sends the same signal of giving up on this year.

beasly213
06-30-2009, 11:05 AM
I would love for the Sox to keep Dye and I don't see how the Giants scouting Dye is that big of a story. Every team in baseball has scouts at games every week looking at players. This scout might not even be there looking for a trade this year but to maybe sign him next year?

It would all depend on if Dye wants to do this but I'd like the Sox to give him a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd year where Dye would be the DH primarily and playing right a few times throughout the year. It makes sense since Thome will be gone and Dye is looking worse and worse in the outfield.

Demps2
06-30-2009, 11:15 AM
I think we have to wait a while before JD gets dealt. he and the team are picking it up, and hopefully they keep it up. however, when we go to DET in late July for a 4 game set (one rainout makeup) and come out 6-7 back plus, we may see some parts dealt.

Domeshot17
06-30-2009, 11:15 AM
I would not write Thome Off yet, he may stay for a 1 year deal to get closer to 600 homers, which I would not oppose. We need the lefty in the lineup.

voodoochile
06-30-2009, 11:34 AM
I would not write Thome Off yet, he may stay for a 1 year deal to get closer to 600 homers, which I would not oppose. We need the lefty in the lineup.

Once the season ends, the Sox cannot offer JT less than ~$10M (80% of his current contract or lose him until at least 5/1/2010. The odds on him coming back are so low it's not even worth discussing because of those facts and as I understand it, Thome cannot waive those restrictions.

Flamer
06-30-2009, 11:38 AM
Once the season ends, the Sox cannot offer JT less than ~$10M (80% of his current contract or lose him until at least 5/1/2010. The odds on him coming back are so low it's not even worth discussing because of those facts and as I understand it, Thome cannot waive those restrictions.

That is not true. Thome can accept a lower salary, provided he signs before the arbitration deadline.

Domeshot17
06-30-2009, 11:42 AM
Once the season ends, the Sox cannot offer JT less than ~$10M (80% of his current contract or lose him until at least 5/1/2010. The odds on him coming back are so low it's not even worth discussing because of those facts and as I understand it, Thome cannot waive those restrictions.

Even if you bring Jim back at 10 mil you are still saving money on what we are paying him this year (what is it like 15-16 IIRC).

I know its more then he is worth, but teams do this a lot. Maybe we can find a better value on the market with the economy the way it is. Adam Dunn would have been a good signing, very much like Thome (OBP and power, lefty). We will have to see.

voodoochile
06-30-2009, 11:42 AM
That is not true. Thome can accept a lower salary, provided he signs before the arbitration deadline.

Okay. I thought it was a restriction on offers prior to that deadline but after the FA period opened also. Learn something new everyday...

voodoochile
06-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Even if you bring Jim back at 10 mil you are still saving money on what we are paying him this year (what is it like 15-16 IIRC).

I know its more then he is worth, but teams do this a lot. Maybe we can find a better value on the market with the economy the way it is. Adam Dunn would have been a good signing, very much like Thome (OBP and power, lefty). We will have to see.

The Phillies money won't be there to offset the contract. Besides, Is JT worth 10M next year? It's debatable. I'll be surprised if he gets much more than $8M on the open market and wouldn't be surprised to see him sign for $5M.

parlaycard
06-30-2009, 11:52 AM
Even if you bring Jim back at 10 mil you are still saving money on what we are paying him this year (what is it like 15-16 IIRC).



You are not saving money. This is a first grade math problem

you have $10 million in the bank in savings

you give Jim Thome $10 million

How much savings do you have in the bank?

The Immigrant
06-30-2009, 11:52 AM
The Phillies money won't be there to offset the contract. Besides, Is JT worth 10M next year? It's debatable. I'll be surprised if he gets much more than $8M on the open market and wouldn't be surprised to see him sign for $5M.

The Phillies money was used up before this year - the Sox are on the hook for the full $13M.

I'm not in favor of bringing back Thome after this year because the team is finally moving in the right direction in terms of getting younger and more versatile.

MisterB
06-30-2009, 11:53 AM
You are not saving money. This is a first grade math problem

you have $10 million in the bank in savings

you give Jim Thome $10 million

How much savings do you have in the bank?

First graders don't have to worry about replacing Thome's production in the lineup...

asindc
06-30-2009, 11:55 AM
The Phillies money won't be there to offset the contract. Besides, Is JT worth 10M next year? It's debatable. I'll be surprised if he gets much more than $8M on the open market and wouldn't be surprised to see him sign for $5M.

Actually, I would be surprised to see him get even $5M. He would have to go to an AL team that can afford to have him DH exclusively and full-time.

khan
06-30-2009, 11:59 AM
While I like Dye and what he can do, this team DOES need a lefty power bat next season. Thome STILL provides this, though admittedly not to the same degree as he once did.

At the same time, it would be good to have a DH that could play a position, even if it was "just" 1B or a corner OF spot. Dye still provides this to our SOX.

The way I see it, each one of these guys provides something of value to this team next season. I haven't decided what is more valuable [to THIS team] yet. Either way, I'd like to see at least one out of these two retained, until we have a more permanent [READ: younger] solution promoted from the minors.

asindc
06-30-2009, 12:06 PM
While I like Dye and what he can do, this team DOES need a lefty power bat next season. Thome STILL provides this, though admittedly not to the same degree as he once did.

At the same time, it would be good to have a DH that could play a position, even if it was "just" 1B or a corner OF spot. Dye still provides this to our SOX.

The way I see it, each one of these guys provides something of value to this team next season. I haven't decided what is more valuable [to THIS team] yet. Either way, I'd like to see at least one out of these two retained, until we have a more permanent [READ: younger] solution promoted from the minors.

Dye is the younger and more versatile of the two, and a better hitter at this point. JT's only advantage is being left-handed, and he would possibly come cheaper if his contract can be re-worked.

khan
06-30-2009, 12:13 PM
Dye is the younger and more versatile of the two, and a better hitter at this point. JT's only advantage is being left-handed, and he would possibly come cheaper if his contract can be re-worked.
Oh, I don't disagree with any of this. But without another lefty power bat, an aging catcher suddenly becomes our SOX's best power option on the left side.

At the same time, Dye is 35, and perhaps has 1 more season [IMO] where he is viable as a regular OF.

I think that Dye is decidedly the better player than Thome. But is Dye/his $12M for next year better than Thome @ ~$5M + another/younger corner OF @ $7M/yr? I don't know.

Oh, and I'm outright dismissing any selling for this year[at THIS point], given that our SOX are all of 4 GB of Det as I type this.

TomBradley72
06-30-2009, 12:13 PM
Thome's a great guy...but slow footed, aging, DH only types kill the roster. I'd take Dye (can also play some OF for us) over Thome for 2010.

NLaloosh
06-30-2009, 12:21 PM
If the Sox do nothing they'll win this weak division. Still, isn't that worth something?

Scottiehaswheels
06-30-2009, 12:24 PM
If the Sox do nothing they'll win this weak division. Still, isn't that worth something?An extra maybe 2 home games in October? And keep J.D.

russ99
06-30-2009, 12:48 PM
The Phillies money won't be there to offset the contract. Besides, Is JT worth 10M next year? It's debatable. I'll be surprised if he gets much more than $8M on the open market and wouldn't be surprised to see him sign for $5M.

The Phillies money was used up 2 years ago. We're paying full price for Jim now. Whoops- didn't see the earlier post.

Also, according to Cot's - which is very reputable even though most contracts are not made public, Dye's option is $12M for next season.

voodoochile
06-30-2009, 12:51 PM
The Phillies money was used up 2 years ago. We're paying full price for Jim now.

I've seen breakdowns that contradict that statement. The Sox got $24.75M from the Phillies ($6M/year for 4 years) on a contract that averaged $13M/year (this is as I recall). Now the Sox may have used that money for other purposes, but it doesn't change the fact that the contract averages out to $7M/year net (roughly).

Am I missing something here or is my memory that bad? (wouldn't be the first time.)

tm1119
06-30-2009, 12:58 PM
Dye and Fields for Schierholtz, Sanchez, and Henry Sosa

And then if this were fantasy baseball...

Dotel, Torres, and McCulloch for Garret Atkins

1. Pods- CF
2. Alexei- 2B
3. TCQ- RF
4. Thome- DH
5. PK- 1B
6. AJ- C
7. Atkins- 3B
8. Beckham- SS
9. Schierholtz- LF

Of course none of this will actually happen, and KW will most likely only add a random vet at the deadline, ala geoff blum.

DonnieDarko
06-30-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't think that position players are really a need at the moment (besides perhaps 2B and CF, but CF will soon be filled by Pods). Honestly, I think that we would be better off going for someone like Cain if we can. We need another RHP in this lefty-heavy rotation, and isn't Cain a RHP? Could be wrong on that. But I at least remember him being a pretty good pitcher. Anyway, we could fill in that last spot in the rotation and be set for awhile. Then next year being up Torres or something when Contreras goes. Oh, and of course if we can get Lincecum, ****ing get him. No matter what. >_>

I like the way that things are shaping up lately. :smile:

LoveYourSuit
06-30-2009, 01:11 PM
Kenny has brought us the only World Series championship Chicago has seen in 9 decades. I think Kenny knows a thing or two more than we do. He's nothing but a shrewd businessman.


It was sarcasm.

If there is one thing I 100% "trust in Kenny" it's him unloading young players.

Bob G
06-30-2009, 01:21 PM
I don't believe KW will even consider trading JD until he sees TCQ 100% healthy and effective (meaning close to last year's level).

I would hate to see JD go but if we can get some solid bullpen help (Gobble has to go) and a couple of top prospects it's something to consider.

doublem23
06-30-2009, 01:23 PM
Dye and Fields for Schierholtz, Sanchez, and Henry Sosa

And then if this were fantasy baseball...

Dotel, Torres, and McCulloch for Garret Atkins

1. Pods- CF
2. Alexei- 2B
3. TCQ- RF
4. Thome- DH
5. PK- 1B
6. AJ- C
7. Atkins- 3B
8. Beckham- SS
9. Schierholtz- LF

Of course none of this will actually happen, and KW will most likely only add a random vet at the deadline, ala geoff blum.

What the **** do people see in Atkins? He is brutal away from Coors Field.

Just say no.

canOcorn
06-30-2009, 01:26 PM
The Phillies money was used up before this year - the Sox are on the hook for the full $13M.



Link? I'd be surprised if the Phillies didn't at least fund us $3M this year to cover the potential buyout we had.

The Phillies money was used up 2 years ago. We're paying full price for Jim now. Whoops- didn't see the earlier post.



The Phillies funded $22M over the first two years we had Thome?

Frater Perdurabo
06-30-2009, 01:28 PM
So much of this is WTS material.

The Sox are not shopping JD.

The Giants are only doing their job.

Much ado about little.
:cool:

jabrch
06-30-2009, 01:45 PM
Dotel, Torres, and McCulloch for Garret Atkins


I wouldn't give up Dotel for Atkins alone. Atkins is a mess. We shouldn't weaken our bullpen so we can add a crappy hitting 3B.

Bob G
06-30-2009, 01:52 PM
Jeremy Affeldt would be an excellent pick up if KW can swing a deal with SF.

russ99
06-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Link? I'd be surprised if the Phillies didn't at least fund us $3M this year to cover the potential buyout we had.

The Phillies funded $22M over the first two years we had Thome?

According to Cot's (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html) the Phillies sent $22M, which is pretty much half of Thome's 2006 (12.5M), 2007(14M), and 2008(14M) salaries. If you account that this payment was for half of Jim's salary, then the Phillies money ran out towards the end of last season.

The Phillies did not send extra cash for Jim's $13M option for this season.

canOcorn
06-30-2009, 02:27 PM
According to Cot's (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html) the Phillies sent $22M, which is pretty much half of Thome's 2006 (12.5M), 2007(14M), and 2008(14M) salaries. If you account that this payment was for half of Jim's salary, then the Phillies money ran out towards the end of last season.

The Phillies did not send extra cash for Jim's $13M option for this season.

You said the money ran out 2 years ago, plus Cot's states that this covers approximately half his remaining "salary and buyout" not just salary. And how do you know the Phillies didn't send cash this year? I've seen nothing either way and the only audio I've heard is of a Steve Stone comment that the Phillies were paying part of Thome's contract this year.

russ99
06-30-2009, 05:51 PM
You said the money ran out 2 years ago, plus Cot's states that this covers approximately half his remaining "salary and buyout" not just salary. And how do you know the Phillies didn't send cash this year? I've seen nothing either way and the only audio I've heard is of a Steve Stone comment that the Phillies were paying part of Thome's contract this year.

Generally, teams are not on the hook for more money after a trade is completed, especially years after the fact.

Do the math, Half his salary:(5.75M+7+7) + part of the 3M buyout = 22 M. But who knows, maybe the Sox paid less of each year's salary to keep some left over for last fall's option. That kind of stuff isn't made public.

Also, it said buyout. That would have covered part of the cost had the Sox bought out the option (i.e. released him) last fall. The Sox accepted the option for this season, which is why Jim is on the team this year at $13M.

Obviously I misspoke when I said 2 years, but IMO the Sox aren't getting anything towards Thome this year, other than what was left over as part of the buyout.

balke
07-05-2009, 12:52 PM
San Fran isn't going to part with Posey or MadBum for a JD rental. That would be idiotic.


Looks like we were both right. Their G.M. admitted it would take that kind of deal to get JD or VM, and that he couldn't afford it. Scouting those two players was a "pie-in-the-sky" notion.

Rightfully so, JD has a ton of value and on this winning team is pretty much untouchable. What a difference 7 games makes.