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View Full Version : Phil Rogers calls for end of Zambrano era in Cubs uniform


illini81887
06-28-2009, 08:51 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-29-rogers-chicago-jun29,0,3124193.column

cws05champ
06-28-2009, 08:52 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-29-rogers-chicago-jun29,0,3124193.column

And he would be the first to say the Sox should pick up the proven workhorse....

SoxGirl4Life
06-28-2009, 08:54 PM
I think its a distraction tactic to take attention away from the sleepwalking team that showed up to play the Sox at the Cell today.

central44
06-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Saying the Cubs should put him on waivers and then get rid of him for whatever anyone is willing to offer is a bit extreme for a pitcher of his caliber...no, he's not an ace, but if he could just get his emotions in check he could be one, as opposed to a career #2 with flashes of ace potential.

DSpivack
06-28-2009, 09:24 PM
Phil Rogers is an assclown who I haven't taken seriously in years.

34rancher
06-28-2009, 09:48 PM
Phil Rogers is an assclown who I haven't taken seriously in years.
I understand that, but that article was a piece of work. Talk about calling out Zambrano. Wow, I haven't seen an article like that since Rick Reilly called out Sosa for steroid testing. Zambrano 0-5 in the playoffs. Zing!!!

DSpivack
06-28-2009, 10:37 PM
I understand that, but that article was a piece of work. Talk about calling out Zambrano. Wow, I haven't seen an article like that since Rick Reilly called out Sosa for steroid testing. Zambrano 0-5 in the playoffs. Zing!!!

Zambrano is their ace and he's having a pretty good season. I don't get it. It's a strange article. Zambrano is not the reason they're underperforming. If Buehrle had a bad attitude [or whatever Rogers' problem with the guy is], and suggested they cut him tomorrow, can you imagine the outrage here? Another senseless, sensationalistic article from a guy who was once a respectable writer.

JB98
06-28-2009, 10:51 PM
Zambrano has been acting like this for years. Did it just dawn upon Rogers that Zambrano lets his emotions get the best of him at times?

Methinks the Cubune sportswriters are just pissed off that Zambrano lost a rubber game to the hated White Sox. How dare he?

Soriano and Bradley are the two players who are actually killing the Cubs this year. I'm afraid they're stuck with those guys.

jabrch
06-28-2009, 11:08 PM
What a crappy article...Waiving him would be flat out stupid.

DrCrawdad
06-28-2009, 11:18 PM
The Cubs, or any team, would be hard-pressed to trade away the type of talent that Zambrano possesses knowing all that teams invest in the hopes of developing that type of talent.

Zambrano has the pitching "stuff" to be #1 pitcher, a stopper (etc.) but I'm not sure if he has the mental "stuff" to fill that role.

WhiteSoxOnly
06-28-2009, 11:19 PM
What a crappy article...Waiving him would be flat out stupid.

Well,their stable of can't miss prospect pitchers would
have this covered.:wink:

34rancher
06-29-2009, 12:18 AM
Well,their stable of can't miss prospect pitchers would
have this covered.:wink:
Where is Brooks Dunston when you need him? Or was that Shawn Kieschnick? Wait, I know it was Kerry "the Mesiah" Patterson. At what point do they stop overhyping players and at what point do the fans stop eating it up?

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2009, 01:40 AM
Phil, Big Z's antics are old news. However, this looks like a classic hatchet job the Trib writers would pump out to get the fans up in arms about...something. Maybe the Trib is trying to grease the skids for a trade, though. With that contract and the Cubs being motivated sellers, they probably wouldn't get what they think they deserve, not to mention the "white flag" accusation. The drought has lasted over 100 years, what's (at least) one more season of futility?

SMO
:gulp:

jabrch
06-29-2009, 07:04 AM
Where is Brooks Dunston when you need him? Or was that Shawn Kieschnick? Wait, I know it was Kerry "the Mesiah" Patterson. At what point do they stop overhyping players and at what point do the fans stop eating it up?

Every franchise does this. I'm patiently waiting for Borch, Honel, etc. to get the call from the HOF.

southside rocks
06-29-2009, 07:09 AM
Zambrano has the pitching "stuff" to be #1 pitcher, a stopper (etc.) but I'm not sure if he has the mental "stuff" to fill that role.

I agree with you. At some point, some pitching coach -- or some manager -- might be able to do a Cooper-style "fix" on Zambrano. (And yes, I would love it if the Sox were to acquire him; I think Ozzie and Coop together could make a significant difference in Z. If it would be enough to turn him into a mature competitor, I don't know.)

Zambrano's a head case but he's less of a head case than Mike MacDougal, and look how long teams have been trying to find the key to Mac!

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-29-2009, 07:11 AM
M & H were talking this morning about this - would Hendry ever put Z on waivers or allow KW to pick him up?

Imagine the vitriol this town would generate if KW picked Z off waivers - and the Sox won the division again as the Cubs faltered.

Honest question - would Z act like that if Ozzie was his coach?

southside rocks
06-29-2009, 07:15 AM
Honest question - would Z act like that if Ozzie was his coach?

No way to know but interesting to speculate about.

The real question might be: would Ozzie put up with that crap if Zambrano were on his team? I doubt it. But he would handle the whole matter differently than Piniella does, I'm sure.

Ozzie and Lou have different styles.

Viva Medias B's
06-29-2009, 07:31 AM
Phil Rogers is just writing this stuff so that it gets talked about on sports talk radio and sports message boards ─ and sells papers, of course, too. Mully suggested that Ozzie and Coop would be able to harness Zambrano, something Piniella and Rothschild cannot do. I think Zambrano, a fellow Venezuelan, would be afraid of Ozzie.

Risk
06-29-2009, 08:16 AM
Soriano and Bradley are the two players who are actually killing the Cubs this year. I'm afraid they're stuck with those guys.



I totally agree with this statement, but I would also add that Fukudome has also killing them too.

Risk

tebman
06-29-2009, 08:45 AM
Zambrano has been acting like this for years. Did it just dawn upon Rogers that Zambrano lets his emotions get the best of him at times?

Methinks the Cubune sportswriters are just pissed off that Zambrano lost a rubber game to the hated White Sox. How dare he?

Rogers' column was so over the top in suggesting that Zambrano be traded for whatever or waived that it's hard to take seriously. Either Rogers is simply trying to create a buzz or he's been hypnotized by corporate synergy for a long time.

Zambrano is a talented man-child who doesn't understand that to get the most out of his career his team has to get the most out of him. His rants, his sulks, his vindictive lashing-out at opposing teams in response to his own mistakes, only show him to be an undisciplined hothead, not a fierce competitor. Rogers is just now noticing this? Give me a break. :rolleyes:

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-29-2009, 08:47 AM
I totally agree with this statement, but I would also add that Fukudome has also killing them too.



The Cubs have 4 guys, with big $ contracts, with limited no trade or full NTC.

Zambrano
Soriano
Fukodome
Lee

Of the 4, only Lee right now is worth something on the market if the Cubs were to sell. Z would get picked up by the Yankees for sure, because the idealogy of throwing $ at the problem always works. :rolleyes:

Soriano and Fukodome are Jim Hendry's crosses to bear. if the Cubs continue at .500, I wonder how much longer this cash cow experiment will continue once all the $ is paid out.

thedudeabides
06-29-2009, 09:10 AM
M & H were talking this morning about this - would Hendry ever put Z on waivers or allow KW to pick him up?

Imagine the vitriol this town would generate if KW picked Z off waivers - and the Sox won the division again as the Cubs faltered.

Honest question - would Z act like that if Ozzie was his coach?

I'm guessing he will be put on waivers, along with Bradley, Soriano, and Fukodome. They would kill to get out of any one of these contracts. I've heard the Cubs were in discussions for DeRosa, but couldn't even get his additional payroll cleared at this point. I'll also guarantee that nobody claims any of them.

dickallen15
06-29-2009, 09:39 AM
Zambrano is their ace and he's having a pretty good season. I don't get it. It's a strange article. Zambrano is not the reason they're underperforming. If Buehrle had a bad attitude [or whatever Rogers' problem with the guy is], and suggested they cut him tomorrow, can you imagine the outrage here? Another senseless, sensationalistic article from a guy who was once a respectable writer.

I like Zambrano, but can see Rogers' point. He does unravel. He gets paid $18 million a season and the Cubs are on the hook for a long time. Getting rid of him, even for nothing could be a good move for a team that allegedly can't take on any money at the current time and whose future doesn't appear very bright. Perhaps his antics do have a negative influence on the team as well.

DSpivack
06-29-2009, 10:23 AM
I like Zambrano, but can see Rogers' point. He does unravel. He gets paid $18 million a season and the Cubs are on the hook for a long time. Getting rid of him, even for nothing could be a good move for a team that allegedly can't take on any money at the current time and whose future doesn't appear very bright. Perhaps his antics do have a negative influence on the team as well.

But it's not like he's having a bad season. They would be absolutely villified, and rightly so, for just letting a solid pitcher go for nothing. You don't just waive a guy with #1 stuff and an ERA in the mid-3's because he has 'wild antics'. I can't think of any precedent of a team doing that, and they'd be ridiculed and become even more of a laughingstock because of it.

In that case, I'd love to see it happen.

dickallen15
06-29-2009, 10:33 AM
But it's not like he's having a bad season. They would be absolutely villified, and rightly so, for just letting a solid pitcher go for nothing. You don't just waive a guy with #1 stuff and an ERA in the mid-3's because he has 'wild antics'. I can't think of any precedent of a team doing that, and they'd be ridiculed and become even more of a laughingstock because of it.

In that case, I'd love to see it happen.

Its also not like he's pitching like an $18 million a year pitcher. If the Cubs dumped him and did nothing else, I would totally agree with you, but if they took that $18 million and made it into a few players that could help them win, I totally disagree. The problem they have is Bradley and Soriano are stuck in their corners. Lee is stuck at 1b. They won't be able to move Fukudome's contract. Improving is going to be difficult. Soriano will go on a ridiculous tear though and all will be forgiven with him by Cubs fans for a little while.

DSpivack
06-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Its also not like he's pitching like an $18 million a year pitcher. If the Cubs dumped him and did nothing else, I would totally agree with you, but if they took that $18 million and made it into a few players that could help them win, I totally disagree. The problem they have is Bradley and Soriano are stuck in their corners. Lee is stuck at 1b. They won't be able to move Fukudome's contract. Improving is going to be difficult. Soriano will go on a ridiculous tear though and all will be forgiven with him by Cubs fans for a little while.

Yeah, I guess they screwed themselves with three horrible contracts in the OF. As others have said, they could probably get something for Lee, Zambrano, and Ramirez if they so chose to break it up.

veeter
06-29-2009, 10:49 AM
If Zambrano pitched a gem yesterday, Phil would have said he's great and the cubs are on their way. The baseball writer intelligence in Chicago is on a second grade level.

Zakath
06-29-2009, 11:04 AM
Zambrano is not the reason they're underperforming.

Flubs' team 2008 BA: .278 (5th best in majors)
Flubs' team 2009 BA: .246 (27th best in majors)

Big D
06-29-2009, 11:38 AM
I would expect that type of analysis from a drunk Cubs fan in a bar, not from a baseball writer in a newspaper. Hell, all pitchers have bad games. Zambrano's bad games just draw more attention because he flips out and acts like a child in them. Maybe it's debatable whether he can be considered an "ace," but the guy is a hell of a pitcher. If they ever decided to get rid of him, there would be a lot of teams lined up to get him, even with his contract.

thedudeabides
06-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Its also not like he's pitching like an $18 million a year pitcher. If the Cubs dumped him and did nothing else, I would totally agree with you, but if they took that $18 million and made it into a few players that could help them win, I totally disagree. The problem they have is Bradley and Soriano are stuck in their corners. Lee is stuck at 1b. They won't be able to move Fukudome's contract. Improving is going to be difficult. Soriano will go on a ridiculous tear though and all will be forgiven with him by Cubs fans for a little while.

I think this is the point Rogers was trying to make. At $18 million a year, you shouldn't have to babysit, and if someone wants to take the contract off their hands, than come and get it. At this point, it shouldn't be this easy to get into Zambrano's head. If he hasn't changed by now, he isn't going to. At least, not with the Cubs. They have let him get away with this garbage for too long.

He isn't the biggest problem, but this would be the only way they could shed a bad contract. Bradley, Soriano, and Fukudome aren't going anywhere.

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2009, 12:33 PM
I'm patiently waiting for Borch, Honel, etc. to get the call from the HOF.

I thought Mike Bertotti and Scott Ruffcorn were
already in the HOF!!:D:

canOcorn
06-29-2009, 12:46 PM
Its also not like he's pitching like an $18 million a year pitcher. If the Cubs dumped him and did nothing else, I would totally agree with you, but if they took that $18 million and made it into a few players that could help them win, I totally disagree. The problem they have is Bradley and Soriano are stuck in their corners. Lee is stuck at 1b. They won't be able to move Fukudome's contract. Improving is going to be difficult. Soriano will go on a ridiculous tear though and all will be forgiven with him by Cubs fans for a little while.

I think this is the point Rogers was trying to make. At $18 million a year, you shouldn't have to babysit, and if someone wants to take the contract off their hands, than come and get it. At this point, it shouldn't be this easy to get into Zambrano's head. If he hasn't changed by now, he isn't going to. At least, not with the Cubs. They have let him get away with this garbage for too long.

He isn't the biggest problem, but this would be the only way they could shed a bad contract. Bradley, Soriano, and Fukudome aren't going anywhere.

:shrug:

That's the way I took the article. Seems like a lot of people getting bent out of shape over a move the club should, if they could, make.

TomBradley72
06-29-2009, 01:06 PM
I did like Rogers' use of the term "drama queens".

The real story of the Cubs, is the ~$40 million/year tied up in long term contracts for such a medicore outfield of Soriano/Fukudome/Bradley. When will the media begin to hold Hendry accountable for that debacle?

I think Piniella is accountable for Z's behavior...his 3rd year at the helm..he should have put a stop to that nonsense a long time ago.

I know there are alot of peoplw who question Ozzie as a manager (I personally think he's one of the best in the game, and a perfect fit for our franchise), but I'll give him credit for how his players handle themselves under pressure or when things are not going well.

The Cubbies have had more tantrums (ie. Zambrano, Bradley, Lilly coming out of the dugout to argue with the ump, Marmol, Dempster, etc.) in the first three months of this season than I think I've seen from Ozzie's players in the 5+ years he's been the manager. He DOES NOT tolerate that stuff, and it shows in how his players handle themselves. And it's fricking contagious with the Cubs....Freel has been with the team for a few weeks..but he's getting cocky after getting plunked by Danks? The whole "drama queen" aspect of the franchise is endemic from the players to the fans.

Big D
06-29-2009, 01:16 PM
I think this is the point Rogers was trying to make. At $18 million a year, you shouldn't have to babysit, and if someone wants to take the contract off their hands, than come and get it. At this point, it shouldn't be this easy to get into Zambrano's head. If he hasn't changed by now, he isn't going to. At least, not with the Cubs. They have let him get away with this garbage for too long.

He isn't the biggest problem, but this would be the only way they could shed a bad contract. Bradley, Soriano, and Fukudome aren't going anywhere.

Well sure, in theory. Hendry is the one who gave Bradley, Soriano, and Fukudome those ridiculous contracts, though, so what makes anyone think he'd spend the $18 million more productively this time? I don't see the point of dumping a good pitcher (despite all his tantrums) for nothing simply so they can overpay someone else.

TornLabrum
06-29-2009, 01:23 PM
I thought Mike Bertotti and Scott Ruffcorn were
already in the HOF!!:D:

:tealtutor:

Moses_Scurry
06-29-2009, 02:30 PM
More articles like this one need to be written in my opinion. It's almost like one of us wrote the article. First, you start the smear campaign so you can drive down the trade value while putting the heat on Hendry to make the move. This forces a trade to the Sox for Ryan Bukvich and a PTBNL. It worked very well with Sammy Sosa. I applaud Phil for his good work in this case!

Or

Maybe a trade is already in the works and Phil is playing the role of the responsible corporate shill (sp?) to prime the cubbie faithful so they won't burn Wrigley down when it actually happens!

ohiosoxfan
06-29-2009, 03:43 PM
While I agree with that Ozzie is a good manager and good fit for the Sox, I think over the past 5 or 6 years, the Sox have made an effort to obtain players that fit into the team concept, i.e. they do their research and tend to stay away from the bad characters, me-first guys. Give credit to the scouts and Kenny for that. It makes a manager's job a bit easier.

WhiteSoxFTW
06-29-2009, 04:21 PM
So, I was thinking...

Zambrano to the Sox for Fields (3b) and what prospects? Hmmm.... :wink:

slavko
06-29-2009, 05:16 PM
Just applying a little logic here, if a trade were in the works, a more subtle, widespread, and drawn out smear campaign than this fart of an article would be the Tribune Way of doing things. So I'm guessing Ol' Phil is just trying to sell a few papers.

As far as Coop and Ozzie fixing him, I would look for Adler, Jung, and Freud first.

Windy City
06-29-2009, 07:15 PM
So, I was thinking...

Zambrano to the Sox for Fields (3b) and what prospects? Hmmm.... :wink:

Jim Hendry might have been asleep at the wheel on a few deals, but he is not dumb enough to fall for that.

I respect Steve Stone a lot and think he has the best baseball mind in the booth, but he is off in his comments about Zambrano. Yes, he loses his temper and his record is probably not what it should be. But there are many factors that determine win-loss records in regards to starting pitchers. The bullpen could have blown a few games, he might not have gotten any run support in games or he went up against pitcher who was just as good as he was on certain days.

Zambrano averages 15 wins and 9 losses with a 3.49 ERA in his career. A bunch of teams would take Carlos without thinking twice about it. Crazy or not.

TheVulture
06-29-2009, 11:00 PM
:shrug:

That's the way I took the article. Seems like a lot of people getting bent out of shape over a move the club should, if they could, make.

Dumping the guy who has been your best pitcher for the last seven years is a move a team should make? That's almost as funny as Rogers saying that after the 2007 season, injuries to Prior and Wood gave Zambrano leverage in his free agency negotiations. Wasn't it about being the only good, reliable pitcher the Cubs had on the team, Phil?

tstrike2000
06-30-2009, 01:26 PM
I totally agree with this statement, but I would also add that Fukudome has also killing them too.

Risk

A spiraling down Marmol, Kevin Gregg as your closer, and one lefthander in the pen don't exactly bode well either.

PaleHoser
06-30-2009, 01:56 PM
Maybe a trade is already in the works and Phil is playing the role of the responsible corporate shill (sp?) to prime the cubbie faithful so they won't burn Wrigley down when it actually happens!

There were rumblings that the Red Sox used similar tactics last year before they dealt Manny Ramirez. What was once "Manny being Manny" became "Manny's all about Manny". Allegations of the fake knee injury, assaulting the travel secretary, etc. became hot stories when they could have easily been killed or at the very least disputed by Red Sox management.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs move him, but I'm not so sure the White Sox would be better if they had him. I think he is more likely to respect Ozzie than any other MLB manager due to their shared heritage, but I think he's too much of a loose cannon.

TheVulture
06-30-2009, 04:09 PM
You want to talk about a bad contract in the Cub rotation, what about Dempster? Career 4.52 ERA with a 80-86 at age 32, a player that had a fluke year and is now the 10th highest paid starting pitcher in the game. The two seasons before his fluke year he went 3-16 with a 4.80 ERA. But no, let's complain about the guy who has been in the organization since age 16 and puts up quality season after quality season. The poll that went along with article states 58% agree with Rogers. I'm filing this under evidence Cub fans are generally a bit dim.

HomeFish
06-30-2009, 06:24 PM
I would give up any pitcher on the Sox for Zambrano.

TheVulture
06-30-2009, 09:45 PM
I would give up any pitcher on the Sox for Zambrano.

I'd rather have Buehrle. He puts up as good as numbers as Z year after year while pitching in the Cell, in the AL. Buehrle should be untouchable.

Boondock Saint
06-30-2009, 10:42 PM
I would give up any pitcher on the Sox for Zambrano.

I'd rather have Buehrle. He puts up as good as numbers as Z year after year while pitching in the Cell, in the AL. Buehrle should be untouchable.

Not only that, there's the money issue. You'd rather have Carlos Zambrano at $18m per season than John Danks for dirt cheap?

Tragg
06-30-2009, 10:49 PM
This is what gets me about the Chicago media, as I can tell from afar. They make gods out of Cubs players.....and then they turn on them like vicious dogs.

They take Sosa, hype him, hyperbolize his accomplishments and personality,and go on and on - and completely ignore the obvious warts and deception. And then, one day, when the season collapses (04?) they absolutely throw him under the bus.

Who is Rogers to say that a player (Zombrano) should be drummed off of the Cubs? That's just ridiculous.

They don't seem to do that to the Sox players....thankfully.

JB98
06-30-2009, 11:08 PM
This is what gets me about the Chicago media, as I can tell from afar. They make gods out of Cubs players.....and then they turn on them like vicious dogs.

They take Sosa, hype him, hyperbolize his accomplishments and personality,and go on and on - and completely ignore the obvious warts and deception. And then, one day, when the season collapses (04?) they absolutely throw him under the bus.

Who is Rogers to say that a player (Zombrano) should be drummed off of the Cubs? That's just ridiculous.

They don't seem to do that to the Sox players....thankfully.

The Cubune manufactured two front-page stories out of that, and they got a ****load of Web traffic. Thousands voted in their online poll. That's probably all they care about.

Unbelievably, the majority of respondents to the poll agreed with Rogers. Fools. If the Cubs were to let Zambrano go for nothing, good luck replacing all the innings he throws.