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LITTLE NELL
06-28-2009, 11:24 AM
As of this A.M. Sox are second in A.L. with 4.07 ERA.......Good
Sox are 11th in hitting and runs scored......Bad
Sox are last in fielding with 57 errors.......Ugly
With the warm weather here the Sox should hit better in the remaining games, but what to to do about our defense is a mystery to me.
People have talked about TCM to CF but when TCQ comes back where does that leave Pods.
Bottom line on all this is that with our pitching doing really well and only 5 games out we just have to hope that the defense will pick it up as I'm sure the hitting will. It's not time to blow this team up.
2 weeks ago I thought we would be .500 after todays game, well if we win we are 1 under and thats due to fact that we had a game rained out in the Urinal that I figured in the math.

southside rocks
06-28-2009, 11:40 AM
People have talked about TCM to CF but when TCQ comes back where does that leave Pods.

It leaves Pods in CF, according to Joe Cowley on the Score this morning, who said that Ozzie has said that when TCQ returns, Scott Podsednik will move to CF and either Anderson or Wise will be off the team.

LITTLE NELL
06-28-2009, 11:46 AM
It leaves Pods in CF, according to Joe Cowley on the Score this morning, who said that Ozzie has said that when TCQ returns, Scott Podsednik will move to CF and either Anderson or Wise will be off the team.
Got to keep BA for the late inning D

southside rocks
06-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Got to keep BA for the late inning D

Don't tell us, tell Ozzie. :tongue: Cowley just said this about 10 minutes ago on WSCR; he said 'word's out to Wise and Anderson, they basically have a couple of weeks to prove they belong here.'

He also said that the date of Quentin's expected return has been moved up a bit, it may be soon after the ASB now. (It's been back and forth on when Carlos will be able to come back.)

34rancher
06-28-2009, 11:57 AM
To have the second best ERA with the WORST defense is probably the most amazing stat of all. It really tells you the quality of pitching KW has assembled. The only reason I can tolerate the errors at all is the youth of the infield. Just imagine how many ground balls they are going to take together for the next decade. I just hope that the players understand the raw talent on the field. My two questions for long term is can Josh play RF or CF and how is Dayan Viciedo doing at third or CF?

LITTLE NELL
06-28-2009, 12:01 PM
To have the second best ERA with the WORST defense is probably the most amazing stat of all. It really tells you the quality of pitching KW has assembled. The only reason I can tolerate the errors at all is the youth of the infield. Just imagine how many ground balls they are going to take together for the next decade. I just hope that the players understand the raw talent on the field. My two questions for long term is can Josh play RF or CF and how is Dayan Viciedo doing at third or CF?
I think we tried Josh in left field back in 07 for a few games and it did'nt work out too well.
PS.You MAYBE right on MAYBE.

jdm2662
06-28-2009, 12:05 PM
The ERA is a little misleading considering all the unearned runs given up. Both Linebrink's and Colon's stats tell they were pitching better than they have been. They were not charged with quite a few earned runs that probably deserved. It's one thing to give up a run when the runner is on via error. It's another thing to give up 4-5 runs eventhough you are technically suposed to be out of the inning. That said, the defense has been piss poor overall. It's a much bigger problem than the offense, at least in my book.

Noneck
06-28-2009, 12:05 PM
People have talked about TCM to CF but when TCQ comes back where does that leave Pods.

Most here don't want to hear this and don't believe this will happen. Dye will be dumped, he will command $ next year and is still getting a nice buck this year. If the Sox can dump his salary this year, which is millions due for the remaining months, they will. That will open right for Quentin and leave left for the Pod.

DSpivack
06-28-2009, 12:06 PM
Don't tell us, tell Ozzie. :tongue: Cowley just said this about 10 minutes ago on WSCR; he said 'word's out to Wise and Anderson, they basically have a couple of weeks to prove they belong here.'

He also said that the date of Quentin's expected return has been moved up a bit, it may be soon after the ASB now. (It's been back and forth on when Carlos will be able to come back.)

I'm picturing the scene in The Dark Knight when the Joker breaks the pool stick and tells the two gangsters he has room for one more member of his gang.

LITTLE NELL
06-28-2009, 12:08 PM
Most here don't want to hear this and don't believe this will happen. Dye will be dumped, he will command $ next year and is still getting a nice buck this year. If the Sox can dump his salary this year, which is millions due for the remaining months, they will. That will open right for Quentin and leave left for the Pod.
If we were 10 games out I might see your point but as for now being only 5 out, Dye has to stay.

34rancher
06-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Most here don't want to hear this and don't believe this will happen. Dye will be dumped, he will command $ next year and is still getting a nice buck this year. If the Sox can dump his salary this year, which is millions due for the remaining months, they will. That will open right for Quentin and leave left for the Pod.
Dye deserves $, but the one thing I have learned about JD is that he has about the most integrity of any professional athlete in the last decade. To honor his word to JW in the last contract when more money was on the table paid off very well for him with the ring and WS MVP. It would not surprise me one bit if he was on the team again next year for a fair salary. Watching him yesterday, he really does love playing on this team and seems to really relate well with the White Sox. I hope they find a way to keep him for RF or even a DH in future years. He is the kind of man that I want my kids watching and learning the "right" way to treat life.

LITTLE NELL
06-28-2009, 12:17 PM
Dye deserves $, but the one thing I have learned about JD is that he has about the most integrity of any professional athlete in the last decade. To honor his word to JW in the last contract when more money was on the table paid off very well for him with the ring and WS MVP. It would not surprise me one bit if he was on the team again next year for a fair salary. Watching him yesterday, he really does love playing on this team and seems to really relate well with the White Sox. I hope they find a way to keep him for RF or even a DH in future years. He is the kind of man that I want my kids watching and learning the "right" way to treat life.
Excellent post, could not agree with you more and I hope Dye along with Paulie finish their careers on the Southside.

voodoochile
06-28-2009, 12:21 PM
Most here don't want to hear this and don't believe this will happen. Dye will be dumped, he will command $ next year and is still getting a nice buck this year. If the Sox can dump his salary this year, which is millions due for the remaining months, they will. That will open right for Quentin and leave left for the Pod.

This is a bad idea, IMO.

voodoochile
06-28-2009, 12:22 PM
Dye deserves $, but the one thing I have learned about JD is that he has about the most integrity of any professional athlete in the last decade. To honor his word to JW in the last contract when more money was on the table paid off very well for him with the ring and WS MVP. It would not surprise me one bit if he was on the team again next year for a fair salary. Watching him yesterday, he really does love playing on this team and seems to really relate well with the White Sox. I hope they find a way to keep him for RF or even a DH in future years. He is the kind of man that I want my kids watching and learning the "right" way to treat life.

:thumbsup:

Noneck
06-28-2009, 12:31 PM
This is a bad idea, IMO.
I agree but it is what I think will happen.

Zisk77
06-28-2009, 12:47 PM
IMHO I wouldn't push the panic button on our Defense. Sure it has been atrocious lately. we have a rookie playing 3b (and 2b) and a ss who seems to have had a concentration lapse. Alexie's problem should be easily solved...Throw the ball hard everytime. Beckham and Getz will get better and more consistent. All 3 have tremendous range and take away a lot of hits. right now we are also giving up a lot of baserunners.

So the future could be tremendous while the present is just plain excruciating.

CanBuehrleWait
06-28-2009, 01:49 PM
Thing with Dye is he has this (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/08/jermaine-dye-si.html). Mutal Option for 2010 the Sox can pick up unless the contract language has changed.

russ99
06-28-2009, 01:54 PM
This year Jermaine's getting paid $11.5 M. Picking up Dye's $12M option for next year as a RF/DH at his skill level is a no brainer, and then the Sox can discuss a contract extension. (BTW - the numbers are from Cot's (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html))

Are the Sox so in need for cash that we'll throw away the best player on the team over a half a million dollars?

Also, the trade market is weak. We'd likely only get a mid-level prospect for him, or a higher level one with big question marks. And the fan backlash would be huge.

IMO - It's not worth it. Hopefully Kenny thinks the same way.

balke
06-28-2009, 01:59 PM
This year Jermaine's getting paid $11.5 M. Picking up Dye's $12M option for next year at his skill level is a no brainer, and then the Sox can discuss a contract extension.

Are the Sox so in need for cash that we'll throw away the best player on the team for a half a million dollars?

Also, the trade market is weak. We'd likely only get a mid-level prospect for him, or a higher level one with big question marks.

IMO - It's not worth it. Hopefully Kenny thinks the same way.

What if you get Bailey in return? What about Gamel for a future DH?

What if the right deal comes along? JD is actually one of the best Outfielders in baseball period. I'm guessing some desperate teams are willing to make a good trade if it makes sense. The Reds need help. I'm wondering if it is worth getting Bailey if he's offered. Floyd, Danks, Bailey, Buehrle, JC for the stretch, and the Sox have a young core going forward.

russ99
06-28-2009, 02:04 PM
What if you get Bailey in return? What about Gamel for a future DH?

What if the right deal comes along? JD is actually one of the best Outfielders in baseball period. I'm guessing some desperate teams are willing to make a good trade if it makes sense. The Reds need help. I'm wondering if it is worth getting Bailey if he's offered. Floyd, Danks, Bailey, Buehrle, JC for the stretch, and the Sox have a young core going forward.

We have very good prospects in the system and more on the way from this draft. Do we really need someone like Gamel? Flowers or Viciedo will likely end up as our DH in 2-3 years.

And don't get me started on Bailey. His major league future is very much in doubt and he's turning into a Joe Borchard in pitcher form. Probably not even Coop could fix him. Trading Dye, who can produce at a high level for a few more years for someone like that would really be a bad move.

I'm not opposed completely in principle to selling Jermaine, but he Sox would need to get a very good prospect (or two) for me to be satisfied with trading away Dye.

balke
06-28-2009, 02:06 PM
We have very good prospects in the system and more on the way from this draft. Do we really need someone like Gamel?

And don't get me started on Bailey. His major league future is very much in doubt and he's turning into a Joe Borchard in pitcher form. Probably not even Coop could fix him. Trading Dye, who can produce at a high level for a few more years for someone like that would really be a bad move.


I normally would agree, but I was listening to Stone the other day. Apparently Bailey has picked up a new pitch (Splitter I think) and it is making a world of difference. I think the White Sox are one of a handful of teams that really can turn a bad talented pitcher into a good or great talented pitcher. Sounds to me like Floyd pt. II in the works and I am interested to see if the Sox bite on a deal like that.

balke
06-28-2009, 02:09 PM
I'm not opposed completely in principle to selling Jermaine, but he Sox would need to get a very good prospect (or two) for me to be satisfied with trading away Dye.

This is where I am I think. I'd also want Dye back in Chicago ASAP. Whether that would be next season or the season after. He gets the highest respect from me. Just for the teams sake, they might end up getting an offer they can't refuse.

russ99
06-28-2009, 05:12 PM
I normally would agree, but I was listening to Stone the other day. Apparently Bailey has picked up a new pitch (Splitter I think) and it is making a world of difference. I think the White Sox are one of a handful of teams that really can turn a bad talented pitcher into a good or great talented pitcher. Sounds to me like Floyd pt. II in the works and I am interested to see if the Sox bite on a deal like that.

Bailey made his first start back with the Reds yesterday:

5 IP, 3 R, 3 H, 7 BB, 2 K - now with an 8.68 ERA over 2 games/9.1 innings with the Reds.

If Kenny wants to acquire him and make him the next reclamation project, then they should trade the Reds equally valued resources (maybe Wise and a pitching prospect) and not someone as productive as Dye.

Tragg
06-28-2009, 05:19 PM
As of this A.M. Sox are second in A.L. with 4.07 ERA.......Good
Sox are 11th in hitting and runs scored......Bad
Sox are last in fielding with 57 errors.......Ugly

I think this says a lot about our pitching. I suspect that if we make that many errors, we also miss a lot of balls that good defensive teams would handle. The pitching has held up well.

The lack of errors isn't indicative of good fielding;but the existence of errors usually indicates bad defense.

balke
06-28-2009, 05:26 PM
Bailey made his first start back with the Reds yesterday:

5 IP, 3 R, 3 H, 7 BB, 2 K - now with an 8.68 ERA over 2 games/9.1 innings with the Reds.

If Kenny wants to acquire him and make him the next reclamation project, then they should trade the Reds equally valued resources (maybe Wise and a pitching prospect) and not someone as productive as Dye.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090626&content_id=5547016&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb


I'm not going to judge on a single outing. He's still going to have to put it all together at a major league level. Chicago would be a good place to do it. He's 23.

As a side note: I have heard the reds are calling him off limits. If they really wanna land a star like Dye though, they'd probably have to give him up.

Tragg
06-28-2009, 05:31 PM
Bailey made his first start back with the Reds yesterday:

5 IP, 3 R, 3 H, 7 BB, 2 K - now with an 8.68 ERA over 2 games/9.1 innings with the Reds.

If Kenny wants to acquire him and make him the next reclamation project, then they should trade the Reds equally valued resources (maybe Wise and a pitching prospect) and not someone as productive as Dye.
The Sox rejected Bailey for Dye straight up last summer. Now the gap has widened a lot futher, especially considering that the Sox are really short of outfielders as it is....and short of impact hitters.

balke
06-28-2009, 05:37 PM
The Sox rejected Bailey for Dye straight up last summer. Now the gap has widened a lot futher, especially considering that the Sox are really short of outfielders as it is....and short of impact hitters.


This kind of deal would only happen if the Sox are 5-6 back and not looking good in late July I think. They still need to make sure Quentin is healthy enough to play as well. If Quentin is healthy, and the Sox are only like 4 back and no major setbacks happen by the break, they could be buyers.

Right now though, it looks like the Sox are going to keep winning and start hitting with the heat. Hopefully they just keep going and Quentin returns as strong as last season in the 2nd half. (*Shudder* I feel like I'm talking about the Frank Thomas era)

Tragg
06-28-2009, 06:02 PM
This kind of deal would only happen if the Sox are 5-6 back and not looking good in late July I think. They still need to make sure Quentin is healthy enough to play as well. If Quentin is healthy, and the Sox are only like 4 back and no major setbacks happen by the break, they could be buyers.

Right now though, it looks like the Sox are going to keep winning and start hitting with the heat. Hopefully they just keep going and Quentin returns as strong as last season in the 2nd half. (*Shudder* I feel like I'm talking about the Frank Thomas era)
Over the next couple of years, the Sox will have to pick and choose which vets to keep (among at least JD, PK, AJ, JT). I'd sort of hope that JD's in the in the keep category. He can DH, play OF, probably play first, hit extremely well and he's a good guy.