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View Full Version : *Official* Gonna be a close call Sox/Cubs 6/26 postgame thread


areilly
06-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Didn't see a thread, so here we go.

Meh.

Mohoney
06-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Can't blame Pods there. The bat was taken right out of his hands.

Kwrubac
06-26-2009, 05:40 PM
it's maddening when we show some signs of life and situational hitting against the dodgers then we crap out today.

BleacherBandit
06-26-2009, 05:40 PM
I've don't think Pierzynski has been hitting well with RISP. I think I might have taken my chances with Castro.

Domeshot17
06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
Piss Poor At bat by AJ, killed all the momentum. They did their best to give it to us, but we didn't take it.

Again what sucks about this game is it isn't the rooks crapping the bed, its the older guys. Alexei's first inning DP cost us a run, Jose gave up 5 runs and 3 homers, and AJ with the DP.

Woofer
06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
I hate the Cubs. We needed to win this. I hate seeing somebody swing at the first pitch.

JB98
06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
Bad call on the last pitch, but the Sox did too many things wrong to win this game. Konerko's error, AJ grounding into a DP and Contreras leaving too many pitches over the inner third to right-handed hitters.

Days like today illustrate why we are three games below .500 this year.

Bad execution = failure to win close games.

white sox bill
06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
My call--this mirrors the LAD series, drop first one, take next two

LoveYourSuit
06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
This game was lost thanks to the liability of a starter Clayton Richard is. 4 inning starts leaves you with no bullpen the next day.

Contreras doesn't come out for the 7th inning with a fresh Carasco.

The Immigrant
06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
Horrible AB by A.J. That was the ball game.

WhiteSox1989
06-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Both teams are bad. No one should be **** talking. Yet, I am getting countless texts.


I'm moving to Canada.:whiner:

BadBobbyJenks
06-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Cubs now lead the series 35-34 and I know the difference was 3 runs before today, but I dont know in who's favor. This series sucks!!!!!

Basesloaded, one out and AJ takes the first pitch for a double play. That is pathetic.

Great outing from Jose up until the mistake to Soto.

white sox bill
06-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Both teams are bad. No one should be **** talking. Yet, I am getting countless texts.


I'm moving to Canada.:whiner:
I heard Michelle and West have a spare room

LoveYourSuit
06-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Bad call on the last pitch, but the Sox did too many things wrong to win this game. Konerko's error, AJ grounding into a DP and Contreras leaving too many pitches over the inner third to right-handed hitters.

Days like today illustrate why we are three games below .500 this year.

Bad execution = failure to win close games.


Couldn't agree more.

This is why I would not hold my breathe even if we find a way to break .500 and win the division.

Way too much little league BS play from this group of 25.

Woofer
06-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Horrible AB by A.J. That was the ball game.

He hit it hard, but right at Lee. If it gets though, we win 6-5, at least.

veeter
06-26-2009, 05:45 PM
Pitch calling continues to plague this team. Jose, who's fork is completely nasty today, decides to throw bong water ass Soto, a drop down fastball on a tee. The guy is hitting .220 and is slow. You throw the fork, get two and win the game. But no. And AJ is just being AJ. The Sox are an ultra talented, stupid team. When Contreras drops down, his effectiveness drops down with it. I do think that the Sox will stick to the pattern of losing game one, then take the next two. Oh yea, **** you cub fan guests.

soxnut1018
06-26-2009, 05:45 PM
Cubs now lead the series 35-34 and I know the difference was 3 runs before today, but I dont know in who's favor. This series sucks!!!!!

Basesloaded, one out and AJ takes the first pitch for a double play. That is pathetic.

Great outing from Jose up until the mistake to Soto.

We now have scored 2 more runs.

EuroSox35
06-26-2009, 05:46 PM
Sending 2 cold pinch hitters up to face a closer, brilliant.

Flawed team, flawed coaching, flawed marketing department, I wish some of those terrible crowds would've carried over to this series so a light bulb can go on throughout the Sox organization. This team that plays station to station, HR or nothing (likely a DP) baseball is abysmal to watch and that's why I've stopped going to games this year. I saw no effort from the GM this offseason, I see no desire since we keep guys like Walker aboard (if students keep getting terrible test scores does the teacher get a free pass?), and I'm not going to give it back. The combination of the flawed team, coaches, and bad crowds/fan reputation (what the media perceives is what outsiders will perceive) will also just continue to hurt the team whenever trying to go after a free agent or player with NTC, something we've failed badly at multiple times recently.

Instead we get the 2009 Sox: average prospects, old players, and projects other teams gave up on

central44
06-26-2009, 05:46 PM
I try not to care, but it's impossible when you have to deal with massive celebrations from those "fans" who watch 6 games a year plus playoffs.

Either way though, the Sox were awful. I wish we won, but i'd rather get beat than hand a game away like last week. Cubs almost paid us back today.

And i'm really growing to hate the Cubs more and more, too. It just figures that they went 1-5 vs. our two divisional rivals worth caring about, rendering our good road trip useless...and then turn it up a notch when they play against us. It's like their sole purpose is to mess up the Sox.

Either way though...its hard to really care about today. It's a pretty unimportant game in the grand scheme of things. I just wish I didn't have to hear about it.

JB98
06-26-2009, 05:46 PM
Couldn't agree more.

This is why I would not hold my breathe even if we find a way to break .500 and win the division.

Way too much little league BS play from this group of 25.

The mistakes are why they can't get an extended winning streak going. They can win two or three in a row, but they are never able to sustain it because they play a game like this where they basically let the opposition have the win.

I think they'll spin their wheels like this all season. They aren't terrible, but they aren't legit contenders either.

LoveYourSuit
06-26-2009, 05:47 PM
Sending 2 cold pinch hitters up to face a closer, brilliant.



I'm still trying to figure out what Dwayne Wise brings to this club.....Anyone :scratch:

veeter
06-26-2009, 05:49 PM
Sending 2 cold pinch hitters up to face a closer, brilliant.

Flawed team, flawed coaching, flawed marketing department, I wish some of those terrible crowds would've carried over to this series so a light bulb can go on throughout the Sox organization. This team that plays station to station, HR or nothing (likely a DP) baseball is abysmal to watch and that's why I've stopped going to games this year. I saw no effort from the GM this offseason, I see no desire since we keep guys like Walker aboard (if students keep getting terrible test scores does the teacher get a free pass?), and I'm not going to give it back. The combination of the flawed team, coaches, and bad crowds/fan reputation (what the media perceives is what outsiders will perceive) will also just continue to hurt the team whenever trying to go after a free agent or player with NTC, something we've failed badly at multiple times recently.

Instead we get the 2009 Sox: average prospects, old players, and projects other teams gave up onThe future is brighter for the Sox than it's ever been. This season is not over yet.

WhiteSox1989
06-26-2009, 05:49 PM
I heard Michelle and West have a spare room
Sad thing is, I don't think moving to Canada would solve my problem. When I was in Toronto, leaving the game, I saw two Cubs fans.

Vomit.

ANYWAY, as other have said, the DP by AJ killed the game, AJ is my favorite player and all, but that was AWFUL (although kind of expected).

Oh well. Get 'em tomorrow, boys!:bandance:

DSpivack
06-26-2009, 05:50 PM
The mistakes are why they can't get an extended winning streak going. They can win two or three in a row, but they are never able to sustain it because they play a game like this where they basically let the opposition have the win.

I think they'll spin their wheels like this all season. They aren't terrible, but they aren't legit contenders either.

Both teams played pretty damn poorly. It seemed like both teams tried to give the game away.

thomas35forever
06-26-2009, 05:50 PM
Somehow, I feel this is one of those 60 games you're supposed to lose although several things that happened during the game won't support my claim. AJ's at-bat killed any chance of a comeback IMO. The Cubs gave us a gift and we gave it back. Gotta take advantage of those. Also, I hope Jose's back is okay.

JB98
06-26-2009, 05:51 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what Dwayne Wise brings to this club.....Anyone :scratch:

Fifth outfielder. At least he's not starting anymore.

JB98
06-26-2009, 05:52 PM
Both teams played pretty damn poorly. It seemed like both teams tried to give the game away.

Agreed, this is awful baseball. Either way, the loser was going to feel like it gave the game away.

LoveYourSuit
06-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Fifth outfielder. At least he's not starting anymore.


There's got to be someone in AAA as a 5th OF with a bit more pop or perhaps at least 1 plus feature of the 5 tools one can have. Wise does not have a singe "plus" tool. He doesn't even have base running skills.

Shoeless
06-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Agreed, this is awful baseball. Either way, the loser was going to feel like it gave the game away.

Yeah, this is bad, but at least our players don't have "sent home" next to their description. Milton Bradley is a bigger disaster then the entire White Sox team.

tsoxman
06-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Fifth outfielder. At least he's not starting anymore.

No but unfortunately, the other 'fifth outfirlder ',Brian Anderson is starting instead.

WhiteSoxOnly
06-26-2009, 05:55 PM
New day,same ****.One step forward,one step back.Two steps
forward,3 steps back...can't wait for Kenny to do something
with this team.And i'd be fine with whatever he wants to do.
Just don't stay with the same mix.

PhillipsBubba
06-26-2009, 05:56 PM
This team needs an infusion of excitement, a spark, a wake up call.

A blockbuster trade of biblical proportions is required.

http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/graphs/moses.jpg

JB98
06-26-2009, 05:58 PM
There's got to be someone in AAA as a 5th OF with a bit more pop or perhaps at least 1 plus feature of the 5 tools one can have. Wise does not have a singe "plus" tool. He doesn't even have base running skills.

Actually, no, there isn't an outfielder at AAA who is better than Wise.

Let's not bitch about DeWayne today. He didn't lose this game. Actually, he hit the ball decent in his pinch-hitting appearance. That was a good play by Lee in the ninth.

Tragg
06-26-2009, 05:58 PM
Fifth outfielder. At least he's not starting anymore.
He's not good enough for that. He's a sub 200 hitter and his fielding is nothing special.


Some of our prospects are "flawed" in that they haven't put everything together (and perhaps will be permanently flawed); but you look at starters on some of these teams and you can tell we're not alone. Our flawed prospects aren't even the weakest spots of this team. I'd rather play the flawed prospects -I'd play more of them if we have them.
Also, why again are we forced to pay in the day when a Wrigley game was played at night? Seems like an incredible double standard.

LoveYourSuit
06-26-2009, 06:00 PM
This team needs an infusion of excitement, a spark, a wake up call.

A blockbuster trade of biblical proportions is required.



I think even if we unload a pair of veterans, this team can still play .500 baseball.

TheAnswer32
06-26-2009, 06:01 PM
Actually, no, there isn't an outfielder at AAA who is better than Wise.

Let's not bitch about DeWayne today. He didn't lose this game. Actually, he hit the ball decent in his pinch-hitting appearance. That was a good play by Lee in the ninth.

Actually, with the trade for Hopper, there is now. I have no clue why Ozzie put in Wise. I have no idea what the ump was watching in the ninth. I have no idea way we can't get runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, especially in the clutch.

So much to bitch about, but I just don't have the energy anymore.

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:03 PM
He's not good enough for that. He's a sub 200 hitter and his fielding is nothing special.


Some of our prospects are "flawed" in that they haven't put everything together (and perhaps will be permanently flawed); but you look at starters on some of these teams and you can tell we're not alone. Our flawed prospects aren't even the weakest spots of this team: that belongs to our fifth outfielder and the back of the pen.

Also, why again are we forced to pay in the day when a Wrigley game was played at night? Seems like an incredible double standard.

:scratch: The back of our pen is pretty good. You don't like Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink and Dotel?

I really wish our biggest problem was the fifth outfielder. We'd be leading this division if that were the case. We won the World Series four years ago with a bench that was pretty average.

October26
06-26-2009, 06:06 PM
Well, this was a disappointing loss. I feel bad for Jose - he pitched well except for the pitch he threw to Geo "pothead" Soto that resulted in the game-winning homer. Jose's record is now 2 -7. :(: I'm also discouraged by the Sox bad defense.

Tragg
06-26-2009, 06:07 PM
:scratch: The back of our pen is pretty good. You don't like Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink and Dotel?

I really wish our biggest problem was the fifth outfielder. We'd be leading this division if that were the case. We won the World Series four years ago with a bench that was pretty average.
I call that the front of the pen - as in front-line starters. Try that savvy veteran Gobble.......
I think the lack of bench bat has been a consistent weaknesses on this team for several years. We've again loaded the bench with utility-level talent (and traded for it) which I supposed provides versatility, but, when you need a pinch hitter, well you see what we get.

AnkleSox
06-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Is there any other manager in the league who would hit Dewayne Wise and Josh Fields back to back in the bottom of the ninth down by 1 run?

TheAnswer32
06-26-2009, 06:11 PM
I call that the front of the pen - as in front-line starters. Try that savvy veteran Gobble.......
I think the lack of bench bat has been a consistent weaknesses on this team for several years. We've again loaded the bench with utility-level talent (and traded for it) which I supposed provides versatility, but, when you need a pinch hitter, well you see what we get.

Huh?

kevingrt
06-26-2009, 06:12 PM
I would have taken my chances with Castro as well because I think Marmol would have stayed in the game then. But who knows.

PhillipsBubba
06-26-2009, 06:12 PM
Is there any other manager in the league who would hit Dewayne Wise and Josh Fields back to back in the bottom of the ninth down by 1 run?

In game strategy has never been OG's strong suit

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:13 PM
I call that the front of the pen - as in front-line starters. Try that savvy veteran Gobble.......
I think the lack of bench bat has been a consistent weaknesses on this team for several years. We've again loaded the bench with utility-level talent (and traded for it) which I supposed provides versatility, but, when you need a pinch hitter, well you see what we get.

Gobble sucks, but I can't think of a single game he has cost us. He's the 12th pitcher on the team. Most 12th pitchers are pretty bad. Ours is no exception. I don't see that as a big problem.

Yes, we have a weak bench. We've already DFA'ed a couple of the bench players we started the year with. But the pinch-hitter who failed today was A.J. Pierzynski.

The biggest weakness on this team is the infield defense. We give up extra bases and extra outs like there is no tomorrow. A close second is the offense. We have two or three holes in our lineup every day, especially with Quentin on the shelf.

If your argument is Wise and Gobble suck, I'm not going to disagree with that. But I don't think the 24th and 25th men on the roster are the reasons the Sox are spinning their wheels this season.

TheAnswer32
06-26-2009, 06:15 PM
In game strategy has never been OG's strong suit

Understatement of the decade, maybe the century.

chisoxfanatic
06-26-2009, 06:17 PM
My call--this mirrors the LAD series, drop first one, take next two
Let's cross our fingers
Both teams are bad. No one should be **** talking. Yet, I am getting countless texts.
Text them back "1908."


What a bad game to go to. The only positive was Adam Burish throwing out the first pitch.

Noneck
06-26-2009, 06:22 PM
Is there any other manager in the league who would hit Dewayne Wise and Josh Fields back to back in the bottom of the ninth down by 1 run?
Not a big Ozwaldo supporter but what was the other choices?

LoveYourSuit
06-26-2009, 06:23 PM
Actually, no, there isn't an outfielder at AAA who is better than Wise.

Let's not bitch about DeWayne today. He didn't lose this game. Actually, he hit the ball decent in his pinch-hitting appearance. That was a good play by Lee in the ninth.


It's not about today.

It's his suckage in general I think we should all be allowed to bitch about.

HE SUCKS HE SUCKS HE SUCKS !!!!

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Not a big Ozwaldo supporter but what was the other choices?

The other choice was to stick with BA and Beckham.

We had our chance with AJ up in the eighth. I wasn't expecting much going into the ninth.

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:25 PM
It's not about today.

It's his suckage in general I think we should all be allowed to bitch about.

HE SUCKS HE SUCKS HE SUCKS !!!!

As I told Tragg, we have bigger problems on this team.

RANDY WILES
06-26-2009, 06:25 PM
This is a mediocre to bad team that will always find ways to lose. All 6 of us watching agreed that if Jose came out for 7th we were done---yet Oz will say he had no one to put in. I am also sick of Oz continually talking about fundamentals when he has responsibility for one of the fundamentally worst teams in the majors (if you consider payroll, probably the worst).

This has been fun---a great ride for all of us. But its time to get on with the rest of our lives. If KW doesn't know how to right this ship by getting prospects for our aging "stars" then find someone who can.

As for Ozzie,in my humble opinion, he is totally irrelevant. In every sense of the word an average manager. Whether he goes or stays is academic.

TDog
06-26-2009, 06:27 PM
I've don't think Pierzynski has been hitting well with RISP. I think I might have taken my chances with Castro.

Pierzynski was a two-out hero Thursday. I don't think anyone, given the opportunity to manage that situation, would have left Castro in.

Guillen had a choice of hitting Castro against Marmol or Pierzynski against Marshall with the bases loaded and one out. Castro may well have a track record against Marmol, but not knowing that or other things that Guillen knows, I would take Pierzynski against Marshall.

Still, in the game thread, I posted that didn't like the intentional walk to Konerko. This was one of the few times when I found an intentional walk to be the right move. The Sox can't pinch-hit for Pierzynski, of course, because they are out of catchers.

Both managers (and I have no doubt that Guillen is the better manager) made the right move. But the the way the inning unfolded, the right moves left the percentages on the side of the Cubs.

You could have announced Wise as a pinch hitter, inspiring booing at the sound of his name, and if Piniella stopped laughing, he may have brought in Marshall at which time Guillen would have countered with Nix who would have been replaced by Pierzynski on defense in the top of the ninth, but expecting as much would require some serious second-guessing. You can't blame the manager. You can't even put the entire blame on Pierzynski.

The Sox came back and had a chance to win, or at least take the lead. It was a team loss, clearly. Contreras gave up too many runs. One of the runs reached no an error. Pierzynski didn't come through with the big hit.

Certainly it was a tough loss. But better a loss to the Cubs than the A's.

Foulke You
06-26-2009, 06:29 PM
Can't blame Pods there. The bat was taken right out of his hands.
It was such a fun ballgame to watch and then to have it end on that note was a damn shame. I'm not saying the ump cost us the game but it would have at least been nice to have found out what happened. Pods looked at a ball at least 4 inches off the plate and got rung up. Oh well.

The way Marmol was throwing, I also would have let Castro hit there. Pinella likely doesn't bring in Marshall to face Castro and Marmol looked like he was ready to pull a Linebrink and hand the game to us. Tough loss. I thought Contreras pitched great today but made two mistakes that cost him the ball game. The Cubs were very fortunate to walk away with a win today. I still like our chances to win the series though. The Sox now fall to 2W-7L in the month of June in Game 1 of a series.

soxnut1018
06-26-2009, 06:30 PM
This game is a perfect microcosm of this season. The Sox take the lead, give it up, then just as you are about to give up, they come back but ultimately fall short. In 05 it was easy to follow because they were really good. In 07 it was easy to not follow because they were really bad. In 09 it's hard because you almost want to ignore them, but they give you just a little glimmer of hope to keep you watching and you know just being slightly better than mediocre will win this division. To be a fan of this team is just really frustrating. But lets get em tomorrow.

RANDY WILES
06-26-2009, 06:34 PM
Not trying to be argumentative, but why do you feel Ozzie is better manager than Lou. I am Sox fan and just posted that I think Oz is irrelevant, no better or worse than the run of the mill manger.

guillensdisciple
06-26-2009, 06:36 PM
Both teams are bad. No one should be **** talking. Yet, I am getting countless texts.


I'm moving to Canada.:whiner:

Try living with a stereotypical Cubs fan who did not know the Cubs were on a 4 game losing streak prior to this, and thought that today's victory was great.

Am I the only one that notices that Cubs fans have a tendency to forget how bad their team is after they win one game?

Ahhh man, today has been a **** ****ing day.

skobabe8
06-26-2009, 06:37 PM
Now I remember why I sold our tickets for this game the last two years.

Annoying on so many levels at the ballpark today.

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:39 PM
Now I remember why I sold our tickets for this game the last two years.

Annoying on so many levels at the ballpark today.

I love this series. It's so much fun!

Thankfully, I sold everything off for this series. To say I hate this series is an understatement. And I went last year when the Sox swept, and I still hated it.

Shoeless
06-26-2009, 06:39 PM
Not trying to be argumentative, but why do you feel Ozzie is better manager than Lou. I am Sox fan and just posted that I think Oz is irrelevant, no better or worse than the run of the mill manger.

I still think Ozzie wants to win more than Lou does, and I like how in the past Ozzie would pull attention off the team when it struggled. However, as far as staight coaching goes, I never know what makes a good manager. I can only tell what a dumb coaching decision is after it happens.

Foulke You
06-26-2009, 06:41 PM
Try living with a stereotypical Cubs fan who did not know the Cubs were on a 4 game losing streak prior to this, and thought that today's victory was great.

Am I the only one that notices that Cubs fans have a tendency to forget how bad their team is after they win one game?
I watched the game at a sports bar today that was populated by all of the Cub fan stereotypes you can think of. The middle aged women who cheered like crazy for every play as if it were Game 7 of the World Series, the cell phone talkers who weren't watching the game for 75% of the time, the businessmen who weren't really watching or wearing any Cubs gear but were cheering for the Cubs anyway, and of course, the frat boys who were partying like they just won the Pennant. At least there were about 40% Sox fans at this bar so it didn't get too out of hand but if there is a more obnoxious fanbase in baseball, I defy you to find it.

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:43 PM
I watched the game at a sports bar today that was populated by all of the Cub fan stereotypes you can think of. The middle aged women who cheered like crazy for every play as if it were Game 7 of the World Series, the cell phone talkers who weren't watching the game for 75% of the time, the businessmen who weren't really watching or wearing any Cubs gear but were cheering for the Cubs anyway, and of course, the frat boys who were partying like they just won the Pennant. At least there were about 40% Sox fans at this bar so it didn't get too out of hand but if there is a more obnoxious fanbase in baseball, I defy you to find it.

Red Sox.

It's close, though.

chisoxfanatic
06-26-2009, 06:46 PM
Now I remember why I sold our tickets for this game the last two years.

Annoying on so many levels at the ballpark today.
It must've been bad up in the upper deck. It wasn't bad around me in the lower deck. We did have some Cub fans getting up and yelling some stuff, but Sox fans everywhere were pointing at the banner we have in the light tower that celebrates a RECENT World Series championship.

I feel really bad for your attendance record so far this year! That's just not right!

Shoeless
06-26-2009, 06:46 PM
Red Sox.

It's close, though.

I thought them winning would lead to improvement...

...

...shows how dumb I am.

chisoxfanatic
06-26-2009, 06:47 PM
Red Sox.

It's close, though.
Red Sox fans at least have won a couple lately. I DO wish all Red Sox fans were like my boyfriend, though. He has attended Sox/Carmines games with me and hasn't been a jerk. Cubs fans have NO reason to jaw at anyone at all. They are at the very bottom of the MLB totem pole!

skobabe8
06-26-2009, 06:49 PM
I love this series. It's so much fun!

Thankfully, I sold everything off for this series. To say I hate this series is an understatement. And I went last year when the Sox swept, and I still hated it.

:rolling:

If that doesn't say it all, nothing does.

guillensdisciple
06-26-2009, 06:50 PM
Red Sox.

It's close, though.


I have always thought that the Red Sox and Cubs were the same teams in different leagues.

Well, up until the Red Sox won the world series. If you think about it, they were the media darlings, they had a fan base that included 99 percent idiots, and they whined about curses.

The only thing that separated them was the clam chowder, and we can get that here in a Campbell tin can.

skobabe8
06-26-2009, 06:50 PM
It must've been bad up in the upper deck. It wasn't bad around me in the lower deck. We did have some Cub fans getting up and yelling some stuff, but Sox fans everywhere were pointing at the banner we have in the light tower that celebrates a RECENT World Series championship.

I feel really bad for your attendance record so far this year! That's just not right!

I thought we had the same ticket plan, no?

EDIT: After looking at your record, obviously we don't.

JB98
06-26-2009, 06:51 PM
:rolling:

If that doesn't say it all, nothing does.

I just want to watch baseball and hang with my family and friends when I'm at the park. I don't want to get taunted every time a Cubs player breaks his bat and hits an infield single. It's ridiculous.

"BOOM!!!!!!!! JIM EDMONDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! INFIELD SINGLE!!!!!!!!!!! BOOM!!!!!!!!"

Yes, those words were actually uttered last year.

chisoxfanatic
06-26-2009, 06:51 PM
I thought we had the same ticket plan, no?
We do, but I've sold a couple tickets (both losses), traded my home opener ticket for another game (a win), and traded another ticket using the season ticket exchange (a win). 3 of the 4 games I didn't go to were losses, which is why my record's better.

Viva Medias B's
06-26-2009, 06:58 PM
This loss really frosted me today. First of all, like it or not, this was a rivalry game and you do not lose rivalry games. If that is not the No. 1 rule in team sports, it has to be among the most cardinal rules.

Second, as other posters have pointed out, our failure to execute killed us yet again today. Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but why can't millionaire ballplayers execute? No, baseball is not an easy game, but our players often make mistakes from types of plays that should be refined at the little league and high school levels.

Thirdly, and perhaps most disturbing of all, we seem to show little if any emotion when things go bad as they often have this season. As I said in the Milton Bradley thread on WTS, I am not saying our players should have Bradley-like temper tantrums in the dugout. We don't need players to smash Gatorade dispensers or attack teammates or go Billy Martin on an umpire or cause themselves season-ending wrist injuries slamming the bat down. However, could they please show some sign to us that they are as frustrated as we are will all this? At times, it seems they just accept the mediocrity and/or just go through the motions. Again, I am not calling for anything theatrical. That's what Bradley & Co. do. Nevertheless, if there is a close play at second, why doesn't Ozzie come out to at least get an explanation from the umpire? Or how about even an occasional benign outburst in the dugout?

DickAllen72
06-26-2009, 07:04 PM
Thirdly, and perhaps most disturbing of all, we seem to show little if any emotion when things go bad as they often have this season. As I said in the Milton Bradley thread on WTS, I am not saying our players should have Bradley-like temper tantrums in the dugout. We don't need players to smash Gatorade dispensers or attack teammates or go Billy Martin on an umpire or cause themselves season-ending wrist injuries slamming the bat down. However, could they please show some sign to us that they are as frustrated as we are will all this? At times, it seems they just accept the mediocrity and/or just go through the motions.
The Sox never did replace what Carl Everett brought to the clubhouse and what Aaron Rowand brought to the field. Other than AJ, they're a pretty bland mix.

MarkZ35
06-26-2009, 07:11 PM
It's just a shame because I feel like the Sox haven't played good in these 3 games but they have still played better than the Cubs and we're 1-2. I just hate this series because from both teams all you get are the fans that watch 6 games a year yet they talk so much smack and make the real fans furious and look like crap. But it will never go away because both teams get 3 sold out games a year guaranteed at premier pricing. So we'll have to put up with it the rest of our life.

RANDY WILES
06-26-2009, 07:22 PM
This is not a personal atack as many of my friends feel the same way---but, we didn't play better than the Cubs---they got more runs, at crucial times and made fewer bonehead plays.

BigP50
06-26-2009, 07:31 PM
I agree, with 1 out bases loaded get at least 1 run. I mean COME ON!

central44
06-26-2009, 07:40 PM
This is not a personal atack as many of my friends feel the same way---but, we didn't play better than the Cubs---they got more runs, at crucial times and made fewer bonehead plays.


Not today, but last week we did--both games. 16 of the 18 innings at Wrigley, the Sox were clearly the better team, but came away with a split thanks to a bad hop and one pitcher's complete lack of control.

Today the Sox looked awful. The score shouldn't have been as close as it was, which is why it was just kind of a "meh" loss. I'd rather get beat than hand a game away. We'll see what happens though, Wells is the type of pitcher the Sox have had trouble with all year, and if the Cubs were going to steal one it was probably going to be today. Even though the Sox aren't a great team, I truly believe that they're better than the Cubs.

TDog
06-26-2009, 07:42 PM
This loss really frosted me today. First of all, like it or not, this was a rivalry game and you do not lose rivalry games. If that is not the No. 1 rule in team sports, it has to be among the most cardinal rules. ...

I don't believe this is a rivalry game. It is for the fans, but I don't believe it is for the players, with the exception of, perpaps, Pierzynski. Maybe his feeling that way led to him trying to do do much when he came up today.

This isn't the Twins. It isn't even the Tigers or the Indians.

I understand how many fans feel, of course. There are a lot of White Sox fans that base their self worth on believing that the White Sox are better than the Cubs. The same can be said for the Cubs faithful. Both fanbases can get obnoxious in this series.

beasly213
06-26-2009, 07:51 PM
My call--this mirrors the LAD series, drop first one, take next two

Agreed. Big Time. :gulp:

TheAnswer32
06-26-2009, 07:53 PM
I don't believe this is a rivalry game. It is for the fans, but I don't believe it is for the players, with the exception of, perpaps, Pierzynski. Maybe his feeling that way led to him trying to do do much when he came up today.

This isn't the Twins. It isn't even the Tigers or the Indians.

I understand how many fans feel, of course. There are a lot of White Sox fans that base their self worth on believing that the White Sox are better than the Cubs. The same can be said for the Cubs faithful. Both fanbases can get obnoxious in this series.

When it comes to sane fans, they know this series is silly. It's the idiots who treat these 6 games like the World Series. But, rivalry or not, I just HATE losing.

TheAnswer32
06-26-2009, 07:55 PM
And I'm curious, could Dye have scored on Thome's hit? I know he had to hold to make sure it wasn't caught, but it seemed like it took a long time for anyone to get to it.

Signed,
Frustrated

cburns
06-26-2009, 08:01 PM
Forgive me if anyone has touched on this, but I was really surprised Ozzie pinch-hit for Castro with AJ. I think you leave Castro in there to face Marmol. However, I'm sure the Cubs would have brought in Heilman, which in that case then you can pinch with AJ. Lets get them tomorrow.

Viva Medias B's
06-26-2009, 08:02 PM
I don't believe this is a rivalry game. It is for the fans, but I don't believe it is for the players...

That is the problem. No, I am not saying the Cubs are more important than the Tigers or the Twins or whoever else is competing with us for first place. Nevertheless, our players should realize that beating the Cubs is an important priority to us the fandom. This may be for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, but it does not change the fact that the Cubs are certainly our social archrival as opposed to a divisional archrival. Just because the players did not grow up in Chicago and do not have a life long understanding of the rivalry, like we as fans do, does not mean they should view the Cubs as just some other team like the Mariners or the Rays.

JB98
06-26-2009, 08:06 PM
That is the problem. No, I am not saying the Cubs are more important than the Tigers or the Twins or whoever else is competing with us for first place. Nevertheless, our players should realize that beating the Cubs is an important priority to us the fandom. This may be for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, but it does not change the fact that the Cubs are certainly our social archrival as opposed to a divisional archrival. Just because the players did not grow up in Chicago and do not have a life long understanding of the rivalry, like we as fans do, does not mean they should view the Cubs as just some other team like the Mariners or the Rays.

The players know its important to some fans. The problem is the Sox just aren't a very good team this year, thus they lose more than they win.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 08:28 PM
This game was lost thanks to the liability of a starter Clayton Richard is. 4 inning starts leaves you with no bullpen the next day.

Contreras doesn't come out for the 7th inning with a fresh Carasco.

Errors on routine plays by your everyday slick-fielding shortstop also have a tendency to extend a game by an extra four or five innings.

fram40
06-26-2009, 08:31 PM
And I'm curious, could Dye have scored on Thome's hit? I know he had to hold to make sure it wasn't caught, but it seemed like it took a long time for anyone to get to it.

Signed,
Frustrated

No I don't think so He was just getting to third as the ball was picked up and thrown to home it was a decent throw JD is out well out if they try to score by 20 feet I bet

TDog
06-26-2009, 08:45 PM
That is the problem. No, I am not saying the Cubs are more important than the Tigers or the Twins or whoever else is competing with us for first place. Nevertheless, our players should realize that beating the Cubs is an important priority to us the fandom. This may be for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, but it does not change the fact that the Cubs are certainly our social archrival as opposed to a divisional archrival. Just because the players did not grow up in Chicago and do not have a life long understanding of the rivalry, like we as fans do, does not mean they should view the Cubs as just some other team like the Mariners or the Rays.

Guillen, considering his history in Chicago, certainly has an appreciation for how important the game is to the fans. He wasn't managing as if he had money on the game. He probably left Contreras in longer than he should have, but that was the result of needing to give the bullpen more rest, just as using Gobble Wednesday night was done to give the bullpen more rest. I believe if he had been going longer with his starters when they were going well, the issue would be mitigated, but still the bullpen worked, I think, more than seven innings Thursday.

The starters haven't been going long enough. That is putting a strain on the bullpen that has shown up in June. Were this the must win that some fans believe it was, Contreras may have come out with the score tied. In fact, I expected as much. When Pierzynski didn't hit for Castro in the sixth, I knew Contreras was staying in the game.

Really, though, the White Sox should have won today. It looks like the Cubs almost gave away the game in the bottom of the eighth after failing to generate sustained offensive threat. They got a lot of mileage on two home runs, the second of which probably could have been avoided with sharper pitching.

As I posted before, the obvious move was to pinch-hit Pierzynski -- a major hero Thursday -- for Castro. I made that point in the game thread as Konerko was being walked. Any manager would have done the same thing, even knowing Marshall would come in. You would rather have Pierzynski facing Marshall than Castro (who is slower than Pierzynski) facing Marmol, or even Heilman. It was the right move. But Pierzynski didn't come through.

I also expressed disappointment while Konerko, who has been coming up with sacrifice flies of late, was being walked. But even if you leave Castro in the game and he makes only one out without getting the run home, you're at the bottom of the order. You don't have a lot of big bats left on the bench to pinch-hit.

Guillen made the right move. But it didn't work.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 08:51 PM
The Castro/AJ debate is comical. If Ozzie didn't pinch hit AJ in that situation and if Castro struck out, people would be calling for Ozzie's head. Nobody in their right mind wouldn't prefer AJ/Marshall over Castro/Marmol.

JB98
06-26-2009, 08:55 PM
The Castro/AJ debate is comical. If Ozzie didn't pinch hit AJ in that situation and if Castro struck out, people would be calling for Ozzie's head. Nobody in their right mind wouldn't prefer AJ/Marshall over Castro/Marmol.

Agree completely. I can't even believe this is a debate.

Here are the choices:
A) Stick with Castro
B) Bring in AJ
C) Pinch-hit with Wise or Fields

I don't know how the answer is anything but B. I don't get it. :scratch:

Windy City
06-26-2009, 08:56 PM
That is the problem. No, I am not saying the Cubs are more important than the Tigers or the Twins or whoever else is competing with us for first place. Nevertheless, our players should realize that beating the Cubs is an important priority to us the fandom. This may be for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, but it does not change the fact that the Cubs are certainly our social archrival as opposed to a divisional archrival. Just because the players did not grow up in Chicago and do not have a life long understanding of the rivalry, like we as fans do, does not mean they should view the Cubs as just some other team like the Mariners or the Rays.

The players can't view these games that way. The Cubs can't get caught up playing the Sox and vice versa. This is not college football where you can go out there a get charged up and run into opposing players. This is a 162-game grown man baseball season that is full of ups and downs. And it is the team that does not get to high or low that will win in the long run.

Okay, you get charged up to play the Sox or the Cubs and you go balls out and win the series. All that bragging rights jazz don't mean a thing if either the Sox or Cubs are sitting at home come October.

Although these games do count in the standings, the games against the NL and AL Central foes are much more important and should mean more to the players. At the end of the day, it is those games that will determine postseason plans.

As a Cubs fan, the Game 1 win is not any more sweeter just because it was against the White Sox. I am just happy the Cubs found a way to win ONE game today after the recent struggles on the road.

fram40
06-26-2009, 09:00 PM
Given how badly Marmol was pitching - two walks, a hanging slider to JD that he JUST MISSED according to Hawk, a line drive from Thome, and 20/20 hindsight - maybe the proper move is try to get the Cubs to leave Marmol in. When he is bad, and he has been bad lately and he was certainly bad today, and he walks four, five batters It has happened a lot to Marmol

Let Castro bat and see if Piniella leaves Marmol in. If Lou makes a move, then AJ can hit

cws05champ
06-26-2009, 09:00 PM
Horrible AB by A.J. That was the ball game.

I haven't gone through the thread but I don't blame AJ. I blame Ozzie. Over managing the game. Marmol could not find the plate...you want him in the game with the sacks loaded no matter if it's R/R match up. If Pinella brings in heilman THEN announce AJ, don't announce AJ and then have Ledty come in to face him. Also, why did he pinch hit Fields for Beckham in the 9th? Do you not want your supposed franchise player to learn from these experiences? He makes contact most of the time and is a better runner than Fields if he does get on.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 09:13 PM
I haven't gone through the thread...

Maybe you should because I just explained the AJ/Castro debate about three posts ago. Read it.

I'm sick of this 20/20 hindsight whining that Castro's the better option than Pierzynski.

Jerko
06-26-2009, 09:15 PM
Even though I felt it in my bones that AJ would do exactly what he did in that AB, I would have been bitching if he didn't bat there. If Castro or fields batted there this place would have gone nuts.

JB98
06-26-2009, 09:17 PM
Castro had no prayer in hell of putting the ball in play against Marmol, especially with those shadows on the field. He would have basically been up there hoping for a walk, and since he's a free-swinger, he probably would have struck out.

I cannot believe that people think pinch-hitting AJ was a bad move. It was an obvious move.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 09:20 PM
It's not like AJ's in a slump either. He just hit a three-run bomb yesterday.

AnkleSox
06-26-2009, 09:34 PM
It's not like AJ's in a slump either. He just hit a three-run bomb yesterday.

I agree with putting AJ in. It's his failure; he shouldn't have been swinging on first pitch against Marmol who was wild. That said, even the best baseball players fail to get a hit almost 70% of the time.

JB98
06-26-2009, 09:34 PM
It's not like AJ's in a slump either. He just hit a three-run bomb yesterday.

And a rope single in the 13th to set up the winning run.

People need to understand that just because a move didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

If we have that same situation tomorrow, I want Pierzynski at the plate.

JB98
06-26-2009, 09:36 PM
I agree with putting AJ in. It's his failure; he shouldn't have been swinging on first pitch against Marmol who was wild. That said, even the best baseball players fail to get a hit almost 70% of the time.

Marshall was in the game, not Marmol. AJ said he was looking curve ball, and he got it. So, he went after it aggressively. Unfortunately, he hit it right to Derrek Lee. If that ball is three feet to the right, the Sox take a 6-5 lead and the inning continues.

DickAllen72
06-26-2009, 09:36 PM
I agree with putting AJ in. It's his failure; he shouldn't have been swinging on first pitch against Marmol who was wild.
He didn't. :wink:

DickAllen72
06-26-2009, 09:40 PM
And a rope single in the 13th to set up the winning run.

People need to understand that just because a move didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

If we have that same situation tomorrow, I want Pierzynski at the plate.
I agree.

Sometimes I don't think a lot of fans appreciate AJ. Just think back to all the great clutch plays he has come up with since being with the Sox. The guy is a winner. Not only that, but he just caught thirteen innings playing a day game after a night game, then comes in cold as a pinch hitter looking for a high pitch, guessing curveball, gets the pitch, hits it relatively hard but just so happens to be right at Lee.

Shoeless
06-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I agree.

Sometimes I don't think a lot of fans appreciate AJ. Just think back to all the great clutch plays he has come up with since being with the Sox. The guy is a winner. Not only that, but he just caught thirteen innings playing a day game after a night game, then comes in cold as a pinch hitter looking for a high pitch, guessing curveball, gets the pitch, hits it relatively hard but just so happens to be right at Lee.

As much as I hate to admit it, a lot of it is the crosstown series. (I know they're out of division games that aren't important, but I got twelve texts today from cubs fans who only watch opening day, the cubs/sox series, and the "playoffs") AJ is a solid player for us and has been for a while. He'll redeem himself, yet.

S-SideTrifecta
06-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Why would Ozzie want Marmol out of the game? Pinch hitting AJ was one of the worst moves I have ever seen.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 10:11 PM
Why would Ozzie want Marmol out of the game? Pinch hitting AJ was one of the worst moves I have ever seen.

Not bad for your first post in four years.

JB98
06-26-2009, 10:12 PM
Why would Ozzie want Marmol out of the game? Pinch hitting AJ was one of the worst moves I have ever seen.

That's one of the worst posts I've ever seen.

It isn't about getting Marmol out of the game. It's about putting the best hitter available at the plate with the game on the line.

AJ > Castro
AJ > Wise
AJ > Fields

Therefore, AJ at the plate. Period.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 10:15 PM
That's one of the worst posts I've ever seen.

Since the last time he posted (on June 21, 2005), the Sox have won the World Series for the first time in 88 years, won 90 games the next year, lost 90+ games, and then won an AL Central title.

In other words = :troll

S-SideTrifecta
06-26-2009, 10:15 PM
That's one of the worst posts I've ever seen.

It isn't about getting Marmol out of the game. It's about putting the best hitter available at the plate with the game on the line.

AJ > Castro
AJ > Wise
AJ > Fields

Therefore, AJ at the plate. Period.

I disagree with this, by odds AJ was due to suck against the Cubs. I would of left Castro vs Marmol, the way Marmol was throwing Castro would of been the hero of the game.

Brian26
06-26-2009, 10:16 PM
I disagree with this, by odds AJ was due to suck against the Cubs. I would of left Castro vs Marmol, the way Marmol was throwing Castro would of been the hero of the game.

Not tonight, dude.

JB98
06-26-2009, 10:18 PM
i disagree with this, by odds aj was due to suck against the cubs. I would of left castro vs marmol, the way marmol was throwing castro would of been the hero of the game.

He gone! Gas.....

Frankie5Angels
06-26-2009, 10:38 PM
Marshall was in the game, not Marmol. AJ said he was looking curve ball, and he got it. So, he went after it aggressively. Unfortunately, he hit it right to Derrek Lee. If that ball is three feet to the right, the Sox take a 6-5 lead and the inning continues.
You must have seen AJ's interview after the game, he said the exact same thing you did. I like what Ozzie said though, "it was a bad at bat".

JB98
06-26-2009, 10:41 PM
You must have seen AJ's interview after the game, he said the exact same thing you did. I like what Ozzie said though, "it was a bad at bat".

No, I work for a newspaper. I've already read Cowley's article for tomorrow.

It isn't like AJ didn't have a plan. He was asked to explain himself, and he did.

Cuck the Fubs
06-26-2009, 10:42 PM
I was there.....the reaction the Cub fans had to this victory was sheer comedic gold.

I swear on my mother's grave one fan literally said that win was as good as winning the World Series. :rolleyes:

Shoeless
06-26-2009, 10:45 PM
I was there.....the reaction the Cub fans had to this victory was sheer comedic gold.

I swear on my mother's grave one fan literally said that win was as good as winning the World Series. :rolleyes:

that guy must have been like 120 years old

Frankie5Angels
06-26-2009, 10:46 PM
No, I work for a newspaper. I've already read Cowley's article for tomorrow.

It isn't like AJ didn't have a plan. He was asked to explain himself, and he did.
No reason for him to swing at the 1st pitch, even Ozzie said it. AJ got anxious to be the hero again, that's all. **** happens I guess.

TheOldRoman
06-26-2009, 11:01 PM
It amazes me that there are certain players on the Cubs who always pound us, and our pitchers never pitch to them differently. Thank goodness Aramis Ramirez was out these two series, or he might have added another 3 or 4 homers to his total against us. This is the second time in 8 days that HGHovany has hit a huge performance enhanced homer against us. His fluke last year aside, he is not a good player, or at the very least he is a decent player who is struggling horribly. Last week they said he hadn't hit a homer in something like a month, and then boom, twice in a week against us. I don't where Jose' pitch was compared to Liney's last week, but with Ramirez the Sox pitch him the same every time, and he always kills us. This was a real horse **** game. Let's go get 'em tomorrow.

On another note, I am getting married tomorrow, and honeymooning on Monday. See you all in a few weeks. Hopefully when I get back we will have acquired a huge bat or gone on a 10 game winning streak. At least I won't be stressing to get to the internet to check the scores every night.:rolleyes:

JB98
06-26-2009, 11:12 PM
No reason for him to swing at the 1st pitch, even Ozzie said it. AJ got anxious to be the hero again, that's all. **** happens I guess.

I don't believe in taking the first pitch. If you get what you're looking for, hit it.

Noneck
06-26-2009, 11:16 PM
The other choice was to stick with BA and Beckham.



Pick your poison.

hawkjt
06-26-2009, 11:20 PM
I love AJ but he is not a good pinch hitter in that situation. Marshall knew that he would swinging first pitch and so he gave him the curve.
I would rather have Nix vs Marmol or Heilman..faster runner,contact hitter,
not as likely a dp candidate and maybe a bit more patient. AJ always bats like he has a cab waiting.

Windy City
06-26-2009, 11:29 PM
I think Ozzie made the right move. There is no way you let Castro face Marmol. That is a strikeout waiting to happen. And those clamoring for Josh Fields to pinch hit are not so smart either, considering three weeks ago few Sox fans wanted the third sacker near U.S. Cellular Field.

A.J., although a not an experienced pinch hitter, was the best guy off the bench for the Sox in that situation. Aside from hitting into a double play, the worse thing A.J. could have done was strikeout or hit a fly ball.

Should he have swung at the first pitch? I don't know. But Sox fans have been killing the lineup all season during the postgame show about too many hitters taking the first pitch.

We can second and third guess this one at bat all day, but the fact of the matter is A.J. just did not come through. If he does, the Sox win and Ozzie is a genius.

areilly
06-27-2009, 12:20 AM
This is the second time in 8 days that HGHovany has hit a huge performance enhanced homer against us.

Source?

central44
06-27-2009, 02:11 AM
It does seem like every time the Sox make a random error, Soto always makes them pay for it. I'm not sure if thats true or not, but it sure does feel that way.

MarkZ35
06-27-2009, 02:28 AM
All of this junk with AJ looking curveball? It's not like Marshall throws 98. His fastball is low 90's tops. His curveball is good and it is his best pitch. Why would you look for it without 2 strikes? If he throws you a first pitch fastball over the plate, kill it. If it isn't a fastball take it and look for another pitch to drive to the outfield. The pressure wasn't on him, the pressure is on Marshall to make some good pitches and you just bail him out by swinging at the first pitch over the plate and weakly grounding into a double play. These are the situations that other professionals thrive in and are killing this talented Sox team.

SBSoxFan
06-27-2009, 05:49 AM
The Cubs are one of the worst road teams in baseball. It'll be very upsetting if the Sox don't win the next two.

doublem23
06-27-2009, 06:08 AM
The Cubs are one of the worst road teams in baseball. It'll be very upsetting if the Sox don't win the next two.

Would it really? Perhaps you've failed to note what our record at home is this year.

WSox597
06-27-2009, 07:21 AM
I was there.....the reaction the Cub fans had to this victory was sheer comedic gold.

I swear on my mother's grave one fan literally said that win was as good as winning the World Series. :rolleyes:

And how would he make that comparison, considering history and all? :D:

Picking on him, not you. "What a maroon!"

SBSoxFan
06-27-2009, 08:32 AM
Would it really? Perhaps you've failed to note what our record at home is this year.

The Sox were a game under 500 going in, right? I guess I thought they were turning the corner after the Dodgers' series. Still, as bad as the Cubs are on the road, I still expect the Sox to win 2 of 3.

doublem23
06-27-2009, 08:34 AM
The Sox were a game under 500 going in, right? I guess I thought they were turning the corner after the Dodgers' series. Still, as bad as the Cubs are on the road, I still expect the Sox to win 2 of 3.

Me, too. Check back in after Sunday's game. It could still happen. :cool:

SBSoxFan
06-27-2009, 09:00 AM
Me, too. Check back in after Sunday's game. It could still happen. :cool:

You're right! So, I'm not too upset ... yet.

tstrike2000
06-27-2009, 11:32 AM
The final out on Sunday can't come soon enough.

JB98
06-27-2009, 01:21 PM
The final out on Sunday can't come soon enough.

I agree. The Sox are a losing team this year, and I really don't need to spend a whole weekend hearing about it from Cubs fans. Unfortunately, that's how it is, thanks to this stupid interleague crap.

Tragg
06-27-2009, 01:35 PM
If your argument is Wise and Gobble suck, I'm not going to disagree with that. But I don't think the 24th and 25th men on the roster are the reasons the Sox are spinning their wheels this season.
One of which was the leadoff hitter to start the season. Indeed, I think such philosophy of baseball to lead-off Dewaye Wise IS a major part of the problem (as is, to a lesser extent, to go with the horrific veteran at the BACK of the pen).

JB98
06-27-2009, 01:48 PM
One of which was the leadoff hitter to start the season. Indeed, I think such philosophy of baseball to lead-off Dewaye Wise IS a major part of the problem (as is, to a lesser extent, to go with the horrific veteran at the BACK of the pen).

The Wise as leadoff hitter experiment lasted for how many games? Two? We have 38 losses this season. DeWayne Wise hit leadoff in ONE of those 38 losses. It's a non-issue.

I can't believe you really think Wise and Gobble are killing the team. Why not blame the backup catcher too?

Gobble has thrown a grand total of 11 innings this season. He doesn't have a single loss on his record.

Wise has 59 at-bats this season.

These guys hardly play. I don't know how you can claim that they are primarily responsible for a 35-38 record.