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ajismyhero
06-26-2009, 01:03 PM
After these last couple of starts, I'm not convinced he's starter material. I guess it depends on what becomes of Colon, but I wonder if there's been any discussion about giving Poreda a start?

mzh
06-26-2009, 01:10 PM
After his last outing out of the pen, I definitely do not think it is out of the question. Have Poreda and Richard temporarily switch roles may be an interesting experiment, but now that Colon is eligible to be activated, that might not happen and Richard might just be moved to the pen.

hawkjt
06-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Richard has not been as good of late but yesterday he got a bit of a bad break with Pods mis-judging the double that cost him a couple of runs in the 4th.

I think they need to hang in there with him for a couple more starts at least,then see if the all star break re-vitalizes his arm...which I think is in a bit of a dead arm period right now. He was popping it at 95 early in his starting stint but now is more like 92...

I like his ability to hold runners as a lefty...with danks and mb, that means we only give up multiple stolen bases two days out of five.

DumpJerry
06-26-2009, 01:48 PM
Poreda would have to be stretched out before being asked to do 7-8 innings.

Having said that, I'm sure Poreda will eventually be in the rotation.

SoxSpeed22
06-26-2009, 01:55 PM
I think Richard can be a good reliever. There are plenty of pitchers that have trouble with a lineup the second time around. Right handed hitters also do pretty well against him, so until he develops a pitch to get those guys out, I think he is suited to be a reliever.

bigdommer
06-26-2009, 02:09 PM
I like Richard in the rotation for now because it gives KW a lot of flexibility. He can pitch Richard on the back end of the rotation until a few things happen: KW decides if he deals Contreras, Colon bounces back healthy and effective from the DL, or Poreda gets stretched out enough to make a start. While not dominant by any means, Richard gives you a chance to win ballgames while tossing 5+ innings out of the fifth starter spot. Also, if KW catches lightening in a bottle and decides to be a buyer, Richard can be a major league ready thrown-in while making a deal.

BadBobbyJenks
06-26-2009, 02:32 PM
Poreda was starting at AAA, why do we need to ease him into the rotation and stretch him out?

Clayton Richard would be a good reliever but that second time around, he doesn't fool anyone.

Lip Man 1
06-26-2009, 03:02 PM
Colon to the rotation, Richard to the pen, Gobble goes to wherever the Jimmy Gobble's of the world go to.

If Colon's not ready, another item on Kenny's to-do list.

Lip

bigdommer
06-26-2009, 03:04 PM
...wherever the Jimmy Gobble's of the world go to.
Lip

He was already on the Royals, so I guess he goes to the Nationals? Pirates?

Law11
06-26-2009, 03:28 PM
Cowley was on the score this morning discussing this very point when asked about it. Basically said Coop has him (AP) doing much more long toss and work than any reliever would normally go through basically setting the stage should there be a trade with Jose or someone falter like Richard. Time will tell how long before he starts.

thedudeabides
06-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Cowley was on the score this morning discussing this very point when asked about it. Basically said Coop has him (AP) doing much more long toss and work than any reliever would normally go through basically setting the stage should there be a trade with Jose or someone falter like Richard. Time will tell how long before he starts.

It makes a bit of sense to put him in the pen for a while, even if they have plans for him starting this year. If anything, just to keep his innings down, so if he is doing well he can pitch towards the end of the year. He's around 70 innings for the year. I can't imagine him pitching more than 170-180 on the season, just based on his past numbers. That may even be a bit of a stretch. The Tigers are going to be put in a tough spot towards the end of the year with Porcello. The Rays started Price in AAA this year, so they could avoid this situation.

Domeshot17
06-26-2009, 05:30 PM
It makes a bit of sense to put him in the pen for a while, even if they have plans for him starting this year. If anything, just to keep his innings down, so if he is doing well he can pitch towards the end of the year. He's around 70 innings for the year. I can't imagine him pitching more than 170-180 on the season, just based on his past numbers. That may even be a bit of a stretch. The Tigers are going to be put in a tough spot towards the end of the year with Porcello. The Rays started Price in AAA this year, so they could avoid this situation.

Price was in AAA 100% for Arbitration and Business Purposes, this has been WELL known, same reason Weiters was in AAA for so long.

Tragg
06-26-2009, 06:05 PM
After these last couple of starts, I'm not convinced he's starter material. I guess it depends on what becomes of Colon, but I wonder if there's been any discussion about giving Poreda a start?
Richard is a 5th starter, better than a lot of the 5th starters we've wheeled out there.
This beating on young players with so many lousy veterans on this team reamins daft.

thedudeabides
06-26-2009, 06:15 PM
Price was in AAA 100% for Arbitration and Business Purposes, this has been WELL known, same reason Weiters was in AAA for so long.

No it wasn't. Price signed a six year deal through 2012. Him going down has no baring on his arbitration clock. He won't be a free agent until either 2014, 0r 2015. It was Madden's idea. He only pitched 123 innings last year and they don't want him surpassing 150, this year.

Price Signs 6yr Deal (http://rays.scout.com/2/668823.html)

USA Today (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/sports/baseball/26price.html)

Britt Burns
06-26-2009, 11:29 PM
Time to switch Poreda and Richard, even if Aaron takes some lumps as he adjusts to being a ML starter. We know Richard;s upside, which is as a 5th starter.

LoveYourSuit
06-27-2009, 12:21 AM
I think Richard is a better SP than he is a reliever..... and I think he's a bad SP for a "contending club" to begin with.

I mentioned it on the post game thread, Richard is the reason the Sox lost the game today vs the Cubs. If the bullpen had been fresh (Carrasco), Contreras does not see the 7th inning. Ozzie is very cautious when it comes to injuries, but he had to bite the bullet with Jose today because he had no long man in that pen.

doublem23
06-27-2009, 06:23 AM
Poreda was starting at AAA, why do we need to ease him into the rotation and stretch him out?

Clayton Richard would be a good reliever but that second time around, he doesn't fool anyone.


You only need to get 2 outs per inning in AAA, the third is a gift. :cool:

I cannot believe people don't see this with Richard, he's brutal (especially on lefties) but once you see him you can kind of figure him out. Look at his last start vs. the Dodgers, 1st time through the lineup, 0 H, 1 BB, 1 HBP, faced the minimum; 2nd time through the lineup 4 H in 7 AB, 2 more HBP, and 3 runs; 3rd time they were shelling him before Ozzie got Carrasco. There is absolutely no evidence that suggests Clayton Richard is destined for a future in the starting rotation. He reminds me a lot of Neal Cotts, who was a big-time starting pitching prospect in the minors but as soon as he got up to the MLB it was clear he just didn't have the arsenal to get through a lineup 3-4 times 30 starts per year.

Richard's got a valuable arm but he's not a starter. The faster the Sox swap him with Poreda the better off we'll be as a team.

hawkjt
06-27-2009, 11:32 AM
I think Richard is a better SP than he is a reliever..... and I think he's a bad SP for a "contending club" to begin with.

I mentioned it on the post game thread, Richard is the reason the Sox lost the game today vs the Cubs. If the bullpen had been fresh (Carrasco), Contreras does not see the 7th inning. Ozzie is very cautious when it comes to injuries, but he had to bite the bullet with Jose today because he had no long man in that pen.


Alexei extending the game with his error is at least as much at fault for using up our bullpen as Richard.
Otherwise, Ozzie has Dotel starting the 7th, Linebrink the 8th and Bobby closing in the ninth.

spawn
06-27-2009, 11:34 AM
Alexei extending the game with his error is at least as much at fault for using up our bullpen as Richard.
Otherwise, Ozzie has Dotel starting the 7th, Linebrink the 8th and Bobby closing in the ninth.
Exactly. I blame Alexei. It was because of him Dotel wasn't available yesterday. Per Rongey, Carrasco was going to pitch in that last game against the Dodgers regardless.

russ99
06-27-2009, 09:27 PM
You only need to get 2 outs per inning in AAA, the third is a gift. :cool:

I cannot believe people don't see this with Richard, he's brutal (especially on lefties) but once you see him you can kind of figure him out. Look at his last start vs. the Dodgers, 1st time through the lineup, 0 H, 1 BB, 1 HBP, faced the minimum; 2nd time through the lineup 4 H in 7 AB, 2 more HBP, and 3 runs; 3rd time they were shelling him before Ozzie got Carrasco. There is absolutely no evidence that suggests Clayton Richard is destined for a future in the starting rotation. He reminds me a lot of Neal Cotts, who was a big-time starting pitching prospect in the minors but as soon as he got up to the MLB it was clear he just didn't have the arsenal to get through a lineup 3-4 times 30 starts per year.

Richard's got a valuable arm but he's not a starter. The faster the Sox swap him with Poreda the better off we'll be as a team.

Interesting... Many of us share that view of Richard, and can't wait to see Poreda in the rotation but Ozzie's quoted in the paper over the last few days that he's sticking with Richard in the rotation, in the hopes he can turn into an effective starter like Floyd and Danks did over their first years with the Sox.

However, both Danks and Floyd were highly-regarded starter prospects who had success in the minors. Richard went from an afterthought in AA to the big leagues last year, and only was ranked as a prospect this year after his work with the Sox.

I just don't see it happening for Richard as it did for Floyd, and I'd really like Kenny to get some value for him before he turns into another Nick Masset - an enigmatic long reliever with bad numbers.

The only other future I see for Richard is maybe taking Thornton's role eventually, but that would take significant time to get mindset required for that role.

thedudeabides
06-28-2009, 12:30 AM
Interesting... Many of us share that view of Richard, and can't wait to see Poreda in the rotation but Ozzie's quoted in the paper over the last few days that he's sticking with Richard in the rotation, in the hopes he can turn into an effective starter like Floyd and Danks did over their first years with the Sox.

However, both Danks and Floyd were highly-regarded starter prospects who had success in the minors. Richard went from an afterthought in AA to the big leagues last year, and only was ranked as a prospect this year after his work with the Sox.

I just don't see it happening for Richard as it did for Floyd, and I'd really like Kenny to get some value for him before he turns into another Nick Masset - an enigmatic long reliever with bad numbers.

The only other future I see for Richard is maybe taking Thornton's role eventually, but that would take significant time to get mindset required for that role.

Danks and Floyd were much more highly regarded prospects than Richard, but I wouldn't say he was an afterthought. The last couple of seasons he advanced through the system rapidly. He made a huge improvement in 2008 and started the futures game.

He has to be looked at as a much different prospect. He focused on football his first couple of years at Michigan, and then pitched mostly as a reliever. He has really only been dedicated to baseball for three years now. So, I still see a lot of room for improvement. It may turn out the bullpen is the best place for him, but I think you have to give him a real chance at being a starter. He's still got a lot to learn about making adjustments as the game goes on, but that is true for most young pitchers.

hawkjt
06-28-2009, 01:04 AM
Isn't Nick Masset ripping it up for the Reds this year?
Clay will work thru it,just like Danks and Floyd did eventually.

LoveYourSuit
06-29-2009, 12:19 AM
Isn't Nick Masset ripping it up for the Reds this year?
Clay will work thru it,just like Danks and Floyd did eventually.

Richard does not have the stuff both Danks and Floyd have.

There is nothing to "work thru" here. What you see right now is what he is.