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RKMeibalane
06-02-2002, 08:36 PM
The following is directed towards any and all individuals who have taken it upon themselves to heap scorn upon the closest thing to Ted Williams this generation has seen. For those of you who have been trashing Frank Thomas, I have one thing to say to you: Stop it right now. I realize that he hasn't been as productive at the plate as far as his batting average is concerned, but let's remeber that Frank Thomas semi-struggling is still a more dangerous hitter than 95% of baseball. He is still hitting for power and driving in runs. Why he isn't getting hits in bunches right now, I don't know. I'd try to contact him if I knew what the problem was. Perhpas his skills have deteriorated. If that is the case, there's nothing he can do. There is, at this point in time, no such thing as a fountain of youth. If Frank has lost some his quickness at the plate, so be it. Some of you act as though he intentionally tries to line out to end games. Others criticize him because they don't feel he produces in the clutch or in late-inning situations. Remember last Monday against the Yankees? It was Thomas who took Sterling Hitchcock deep, which led the Sox putting some runs on the board in order to at least give New York something to think about. It was Thomas who made it interesting, when the game should have already been over with. It was Thomas who was still trying to focus at the plate when everyone else in the line-up had given up. This man has worked his ass off for the past twelve years. He is one of most productive hitters in the history of baseball, and the Sox are fortunate to have him. Even now, pitchers are still careful with him because they're afraid of what he might do. He is well respected by his peers. I don't remember the last time anyone outside of David Wells said anything negative about him. Furthermore, he has been the one player who has said that all this talk about strike is foolish and unecessary. I don't Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa standing up and saying anything, because neither of them has the testicular fortitude required to do so. What more do you want from him. He has done everything he can to help the White Sox win. For those of you who think he should be hitting .400, stop complaining. Nobody in baseball right now is capable of doing that. I don't care what Peter Gammons says. For those of you who want him to challenge Bonds' homerun record, be quite. He has never been about just hitting homeruns, but rather, compiling impressive all-around numbers by being selective and patient at the plate. If you would rather watch someon who cares only about hitting the ball into the bleachers, go watch the Cubs. The thing people fail to realize is that Frank won't be around in a few years. I for one will be sorry when he's gone. His presence in this line-up makes an enormous difference. Honestly, do any of you think Paul Konerko would get anything to hit if Royce Clayton were batting behind him? Do you think Maglio Ordonez would have been as effective as he was in the clean-up spot without Thomas getting on base in front of him? When he's gone, I don't want to hear anyone complaining about how much they miss him, because it's clear that some of you don't want him around anymore. You've made no secret of that. Would you rather have Julio Ramiez back? I'm sure the Angels would love to have Frank on their team to add to that offense.

kevingrt
06-02-2002, 08:59 PM
Amazing post RKMeibalane! I agree with almost all the comments except one, but I'lll get to that later. What a great post, got to all the points that I think about whenever somebody on this board or any other board complains or criticzices Frank. You know why Frank was changing his battin stance in the beginning of the season, because he wasn't doing well. He was TRYING to get something going and do better.

The thing I didn't agree on was the comment, "It was Thomas who was still trying to focus at the plate when everyone else in the line-up had given up." I don't think everyone in the line-up gave up. It just looked like that. Maggs, Paulie, Lofton, and others were trying but it just didn't lok like that. And I don't believe it was Sterling Hitchcock.

Once again, Outstanding Post!

pearso66
06-02-2002, 10:15 PM
damn straight buddy, i love that we have thomas still, and that he is still being put in the lineup, id much rather have him in there hitting .200 than royce hitting .200, when and iff that happens. pitchers are still scared of him, and they sox do well when he is in the 3 spot. all i can say, is dont keep him playing when he is 43 and trying to get #500, or something like that, just like they did with baines. but as of now, he deserves to be there

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
When he's gone, I don't want to hear anyone complaining about how much they miss him, because it's clear that some of you don't want him around anymore. You've made no secret of that. Don't number me among those who don't want Frank around. I believe a search of the archives will find that I have said he is among those players who have earned the right to retire in the uniform of the team with which he began his career.

Kilroy
06-03-2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Don't number me among those who don't want Frank around. I believe a search of the archives will find that I have said he is among those players who have earned the right to retire in the uniform of the team with which he began his career.

That would include me as well.

RKMeibalane
06-03-2002, 09:54 AM
To Kilroy and Nellie_Fox:

I did not mean to group people together. That is why I said some people don't want Thomas around. Thankyou.

34 Inch Stick
06-03-2002, 10:57 AM
The guy is 33 and already has 360+ home runs. He won't need to linger like Baines at the end of his career.

TheBigHurt
06-03-2002, 11:25 AM
i agree with everything you said frank is the anchor for this team and im sick of everyone trashing him and id also be very suprised if by the end of this year if he is hitting less then 290

Dadawg_77
06-03-2002, 12:58 PM
Honestly, all I think Frank has to do is take a week off and head to the boston area. Visit an old friend and great teacher of his hitting style. He did it in pre season of 2000 and had a strong year, maybe its time to re visit the teacher.

guillen4life13
06-03-2002, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Honestly, all I think Frank has to do is take a week off and head to the boston area. Visit an old friend and great teacher of his hitting style. He did it in pre season of 2000 and had a strong year, maybe its time to re visit the teacher.

agreed. hey... maybe the white sox should rehire him as their hitting coach (i don't know the circumstances in which he left or his current situation). Hriniak could get Thomas going again, and we could be back to the team that was favored to win the whole thing back in '94.

Foulke You
06-03-2002, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13


agreed. hey... maybe the white sox should rehire him as their hitting coach (i don't know the circumstances in which he left or his current situation). Hriniak could get Thomas going again, and we could be back to the team that was favored to win the whole thing back in '94.

I never was a huge fan of Walt Hriniak. He preached an unorthodox style of hitting that involved perfect timing of letting the top hand off the bat. I always thoght that players who used his style lost some power because of that. Some players loved him and blossomed under him like Thomas, Ventura, and Fisk. Others clashed with him and hated his style like Sosa, Grebeck, and Ellis Burks if I remember correctly.

One thing I do know is that he definitely knows what makes Frank tick and he has Frank's ultimate respect but I'm not sure he'd be right for our club.

voodoochile
06-03-2002, 01:34 PM
I think everyone knows how I feel about Frank. If not, I agree with Nellie, 100% (first time for everything I suppose).

Rather than give Frank a week off, they should bring Walt to Chicago...

ChiSoxBobette
06-03-2002, 01:44 PM
I totally agree with you about the Big Hurt, leave him alone and let him play his average may not be up there but he up there in H.R.'s & R.B.I's maybe we should be ragging on the 2 guys in front of Frank Konerko & Maggs , Konerko looks like he's going into his regular slump in May now & i don't know whats up with Maggs Sat. was the only day I saw him turn on a pitch and hit it deep to left field everything he's been swinging at has been weak to right field or a weakly hit ball on the ground to the left side of the infield if he's hurt get him out & let him heal if he's not well someone should find out if he wants to play in Chicago anymore, Sunday the way he got thrown out at homeplate was pretty bad it did'nteven lokk like he knew what was going on or care. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Kilroy
06-03-2002, 01:56 PM
What I can't understand for the life of me about Frank right now is why he is so set on his method. He stands a mile off the plate to protect the inner portion of the plate. Pitchers are hammering away and making him reach for those pitches. That's part of why we are seeing so many pop ups and K's.

Is he incapable of adjustment?

The thing he should do is move into the plate. It makes his coverage away more solid, and dares pitchers to come in on him. It's not like he has lost bat speed. And he stands so far in the back of the box that he's got time to get his hands in.

Remember when Albert Belle went from slug to slugger in his last season with the Sox?? The adjustment he made that started his production that season was moving towards the plate.

Paulwny
06-03-2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
What I can't understand for the life of me about Frank right now is why he is so set on his method. He stands a mile off the plate to protect the inner portion of the plate. Pitchers are hammering away and making him reach for those pitches. That's part of why we are seeing so many pop ups and K's.

Is he incapable of adjustment?

The thing he should do is move into the plate. It makes his coverage away more solid, and dares pitchers to come in on him. It's not like he has lost bat speed. And he stands so far in the back of the box that he's got time to get his hands in.



I hate saying this but, I think Frank is terrified of the inside pitch. Ever since Torre say Frank jacknife away from a called strike by Jeff Nelson that's when the word spread, inside curve balls, fast balls off the plate inside and then pitch him away. I agree standing further from the plate won't help. It's almost like Frank has to learn where the inside corner of the plate is.

Dadawg_77
06-03-2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You


I never was a huge fan of Walt Hriniak. He preached an unorthodox style of hitting that involved perfect timing of letting the top hand off the bat. I always thoght that players who used his style lost some power because of that. Some players loved him and blossomed under him like Thomas, Ventura, and Fisk. Others clashed with him and hated his style like Sosa, Grebeck, and Ellis Burks if I remember correctly.

One thing I do know is that he definitely knows what makes Frank tick and he has Frank's ultimate respect but I'm not sure he'd be right for our club.

Maybe the Sox should use two hitting coaches. Hitter as people in general blossom under different styles. Frank's approach needs to be different then Paul's approach, so Ward can help out Paul while Walt could help out Frank. Thus if a hitter doesn't respond to the Charlie Lau(sp?) school of hitting, Ward can tutor him under a more orthodox method. I think JR might like the idea since if Walt, with a salary of 50 to 100 Gs could increase the production of his 10 million investment.

Randar68
06-03-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You

One thing I do know is that he definitely knows what makes Frank tick and he has Frank's ultimate respect but I'm not sure he'd be right for our club.

He would be perfect. He convonced Frank, Robin and Fisk to all be more selective hitters at the plate, and as the years have gone by, Frank's HR's have gotten shorter and shorter the more he has moved away from that original hitting style. It gives you great plate coverage and does not sacrifice power because you bat is through the zone before the top hand comes off.

While he may not be right for this club personality-wise, his hitting style and teaching ability are...

On top of all of this, look at where Mo Vaughn is in his recovery. Look at where Frank is....

Production-wise, there is no comparison...

bc2k
06-04-2002, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The following is directed towards any and all individuals who have taken it upon themselves to heap scorn upon the closest thing to Ted Williams this generation has seen. For those of you who have been trashing Frank Thomas, I have one thing to say to you: Stop it right now. I realize that he hasn't been as productive at the plate as far as his batting average is concerned, but let's remeber that Frank Thomas semi-struggling is still a more dangerous hitter than 95% of baseball. He is still hitting for power and driving in runs. Why he isn't getting hits in bunches right now, I don't know. I'd try to contact him if I knew what the problem was. Perhpas his skills have deteriorated. If that is the case, there's nothing he can do. There is, at this point in time, no such thing as a fountain of youth. If Frank has lost some his quickness at the plate, so be it. Some of you act as though he intentionally tries to line out to end games. Others criticize him because they don't feel he produces in the clutch or in late-inning situations. Remember last Monday against the Yankees? It was Thomas who took Sterling Hitchcock deep, which led the Sox putting some runs on the board in order to at least give New York something to think about. It was Thomas who made it interesting, when the game should have already been over with. It was Thomas who was still trying to focus at the plate when everyone else in the line-up had given up. This man has worked his ass off for the past twelve years. He is one of most productive hitters in the history of baseball, and the Sox are fortunate to have him. Even now, pitchers are still careful with him because they're afraid of what he might do. He is well respected by his peers. I don't remember the last time anyone outside of David Wells said anything negative about him. Furthermore, he has been the one player who has said that all this talk about strike is foolish and unecessary. I don't Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa standing up and saying anything, because neither of them has the testicular fortitude required to do so. What more do you want from him. He has done everything he can to help the White Sox win. For those of you who think he should be hitting .400, stop complaining. Nobody in baseball right now is capable of doing that. I don't care what Peter Gammons says. For those of you who want him to challenge Bonds' homerun record, be quite. He has never been about just hitting homeruns, but rather, compiling impressive all-around numbers by being selective and patient at the plate. If you would rather watch someon who cares only about hitting the ball into the bleachers, go watch the Cubs. The thing people fail to realize is that Frank won't be around in a few years. I for one will be sorry when he's gone. His presence in this line-up makes an enormous difference. Honestly, do any of you think Paul Konerko would get anything to hit if Royce Clayton were batting behind him? Do you think Maglio Ordonez would have been as effective as he was in the clean-up spot without Thomas getting on base in front of him? When he's gone, I don't want to hear anyone complaining about how much they miss him, because it's clear that some of you don't want him around anymore. You've made no secret of that. Would you rather have Julio Ramiez back? I'm sure the Angels would love to have Frank on their team to add to that offense.

Frank Thomas is not in the same category as Ted Williams. Tell me again what year Frank hit .406? Williams hit .388 at age 39! Thomas is what, .260 at age 33? Thomas is more dangerous than 95% of players today? He is getting his home run and rbi numbers, but when is he compiling them? In the first 6 innings. Frank is the 2002 version of 2001 Bob Howry. They both look great when the game is out of hand, non-clutch situations.

Sox vs. Indians, June 2nd. 4-2 game, Lofton doubles in Alomar making it 4-3 with a fast running, tying run at second. Thomas makes the final out of the game, strands Lofton. Typical 2002 Lofton, typical 2002 Thomas. Thomas just doesn't get it done.

Instead of Blue Cross/Shield donating money for every pitching change, they should donate for every Thomas pop-out. They would probably cure cancer with that kind of cash.

Uh, Thomas was hitting three for a while, and Konerko and Maggs still put up their numbers. Pitchers would rather face Thomas than Maggs or Konerko.

Thomas sucks. The only question I have is can you invoke the no skills clause midseason?

voodoochile
06-04-2002, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


Frank Thomas is not in the same category as Ted Williams. Tell me again what year Frank hit .406? Williams hit .388 at age 39! Thomas is what, .260 at age 33? Thomas is more dangerous than 95% of players today? He is getting his home run and rbi numbers, but when is he compiling them? In the first 6 innings. Frank is the 2002 version of 2001 Bob Howry. They both look great when the game is out of hand, non-clutch situations.

Sox vs. Indians, June 2nd. 4-2 game, Lofton doubles in Alomar making it 4-3 with a fast running, tying run at second. Thomas makes the final out of the game, strands Lofton. Typical 2002 Lofton, typical 2002 Thomas. Thomas just doesn't get it done.

Instead of Blue Cross/Shield donating money for every pitching change, they should donate for every Thomas pop-out. They would probably cure cancer with that kind of cash.

Uh, Thomas was hitting three for a while, and Konerko and Maggs still put up their numbers. Pitchers would rather face Thomas than Maggs or Konerko.

Thomas sucks. The only question I have is can you invoke the no skills clause midseason?

:whoflungpoo

I got it, West...

FarWestChicago
06-04-2002, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


:whoflungpoo

I got it, West... Thanks. I guess you could have tossed in:

:troll

bc2k
06-04-2002, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


:whoflungpoo

I got it, West...

It is about time someone put up that sign. Thomas lives just above that highway.

voodoochile
06-04-2002, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


Frank Thomas is not in the same category as Ted Williams. Tell me again what year Frank hit .406? Williams hit .388 at age 39! Thomas is what, .260 at age 33? Thomas is more dangerous than 95% of players today? He is getting his home run and rbi numbers, but when is he compiling them? In the first 6 innings. Frank is the 2002 version of 2001 Bob Howry. They both look great when the game is out of hand, non-clutch situations.

Sox vs. Indians, June 2nd. 4-2 game, Lofton doubles in Alomar making it 4-3 with a fast running, tying run at second. Thomas makes the final out of the game, strands Lofton. Typical 2002 Lofton, typical 2002 Thomas. Thomas just doesn't get it done.

Instead of Blue Cross/Shield donating money for every pitching change, they should donate for every Thomas pop-out. They would probably cure cancer with that kind of cash.

Uh, Thomas was hitting three for a while, and Konerko and Maggs still put up their numbers. Pitchers would rather face Thomas than Maggs or Konerko.

Thomas sucks. The only question I have is can you invoke the no skills clause midseason?


Okay, point by point...

You claim that Frank isn't clutch because he only hits in the first 6 innings of the game. Now go back and check out how often he is a huge part of generating a lead the team holds into the late innings - like tonight's win for example when he helped extend the lead in the 8th inning. Of course that is one of those meaningless hits as far as you are concerned, but the rest of us know better...

Maybe you missed it in your rush to rip Frank... The final out on Sunday was a line shot up the middle. 2 feet toward center and the game is at least tied with Maggs coming up.

Face it, you don't like Frank. You are biased, so your opinion means next to nothing regarding him. You can say what you want, but when the chips are down, the man has been and remains one of the most feared hitters in the game.

No, you cannot invoke the clause midseason. You cannot dump Frank. You really should just quit while you are behind, because you are not going to make it any better, just deeper...

bc2k
06-04-2002, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile



Okay, point by point...

You claim that Frank isn't clutch because he only hits in the first 6 innings of the game. Now go back and check out how often he is a huge part of generating a lead the team holds into the late innings - like tonight's win for example when he helped extend the lead in the 8th inning. Of course that is one of those meaningless hits as far as you are concerned, but the rest of us know better...

Maybe you missed it in your rush to rip Frank... The final out on Sunday was a line shot up the middle. 2 feet toward center and the game is at least tied with Maggs coming up.

Face it, you don't like Frank. You are biased, so your opinion means next to nothing regarding him. You can say what you want, but when the chips are down, the man has been and remains one of the most feared hitters in the game.

No, you cannot invoke the clause midseason. You cannot dump Frank. You really should just quit while you are behind, because you are not going to make it any better, just deeper...

Thomas helped extend the 8th inning lead. Clutch? Hardly.

Uh, two feet from a hit. Blast! That was close. A line-out, a pop-out, same result.

I admit that I don't like Frank. But it is not blind hatred of the man. I liked him when I was younger and would like him again if he hit like Ted Williams.

voodoochile
06-04-2002, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


Thomas helped extend the 8th inning lead. Clutch? Hardly.

Uh, two feet from a hit. Blast! That was close. A line-out, a pop-out, same result.

I admit that I don't like Frank. But it is not blind hatred of the man. I liked him when I was younger and would like him again if he hit like Ted Williams.

Jeez, don't set too high of a standard, why don't you?

I see, when he does hit late in a close ballgame, to extend the lead, it doesn't matter, but when he fails, then he sucks...

Popups and lineouts are never the same. Frank got good wood on the ball. He ripped it up the middle. He did everything you ask of a hitter, but it didn't get through. Maybe when you figure out how to aim line drives so they don't end up in fielders mitts, you will share your secret with the rest of us, until then it is just more of the same old same old...

:whoflungpoo