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View Full Version : It's time to BUY BUY BUY


BigP50
06-18-2009, 06:14 PM
I wouldn't say that this is a bad team, but we are no where close to being a good team. If we don't do something the season will stay ust like this. Win a few games, it looks bright then we go on a losing streak. And its just the same pattern. We will just be a .500 or worse team if we dont do anything.

JB98
06-18-2009, 06:22 PM
I've said it before on this board: I'm in favor of change. The status quo isn't good.

Not good enough to contend, but not really building for the future either. Let's pick one and go all out. Either way is fine with me.

BigP50
06-18-2009, 06:23 PM
if we do something, we have a very good chance to contend because we are only 3.5 out.

JB98
06-18-2009, 06:26 PM
if we do something, we have a very good chance to contend because we are only 3.5 out.

I can't really argue. I don't think there's anything wrong with your call to buy. They aren't going to win it the way they are, IMO, but a good addition or two could tip the scales in the Sox favor in this wide-open division.

Right now, though, this team is just good enough to hang around in a weak division, just good enough to tease you and frustrate you.

getonbckthr
06-18-2009, 06:30 PM
Here's my question where do you go? Up until today the bullpen has been good. The rotation has really picked up. Anderson is showing confidence, having good at bats as well playing gold glove defense. Beckham needs to play everyday. That leaves us with Getz.

Sargeant79
06-18-2009, 06:31 PM
I can't really argue. I don't think there's anything wrong with your call to buy. They aren't going to win it the way they are, IMO, but a good addition or two could tip the scales in the Sox favor in this wide-open division.

Right now, though, this team is just good enough to hang around in a weak division, just good enough to tease you and frustrate you.

I agree as long as we're not getting rent-a-players. I'm all in favor of being a buyer as long as we're buying guys who can help this year and beyond, specifically guys who are under contract at least through 2010. I like the "Building for now and the future" thing that Kenny is trying to do. This team isn't good enough to warrant selling the farm on guys who would be gone in Novemeber.

BigP50
06-18-2009, 06:32 PM
if the Tigers lose tonight then we are only 3 back. THis is exactly why we need to make a trade cause we can do damage THIS YEAR.

DSpivack
06-18-2009, 06:34 PM
if the Tigers lose tonight then we are only 3 back. THis is exactly why we need to make a trade cause we can do damage THIS YEAR.

Damage? The best I see this team doing is backing into the playoffs like last year, losing in the first round. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing consecutive playoff appearances for the first time in franchise history.

Sargeant79
06-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Here's my question where do you go? Up until today the bullpen has been good. The rotation has really picked up. Anderson is showing confidence, having good at bats as well playing gold glove defense. Beckham needs to play everyday. That leaves us with Getz.

Pitching. Never can have too much pitching.

voodoochile
06-18-2009, 06:38 PM
I've said it before on this board: I'm in favor of change. The status quo isn't good.

Not good enough to contend, but not really building for the future either. Let's pick one and go all out. Either way is fine with me.

I don't know if that's true...

Right now Beckham is getting valuable at bats against major league pitching and being allowed to play every day at 3rd so the Sox will know what they need to do for next year. Getz is even on a nice little hot streak recently to get his batting average back up and is in fact posting close to an .800 OPS over his last 7 games.

The biggest moves are going to be getting back to AL ball and getting TCQ back. That in and of itself adds two huge bats to the lineup.

If the Sox went the rest of the year with this lineup:

Pods CF
TCM SS
Dye RF
Thome DH
TCQ LF
PK 1B
AJ C
Getz 2B
Beckham 3B

They'd probably have enough talent to win and would be developing at least two players for next year.

Add in a top 4 rotation of

Buehlre
Floyd
Danks
Contreras
(Richard/Colon)

and the Sox are in pretty good shape. There's no depth at all for the offensive side as all the other players have proven to be pretty worthless, but at the moment the potential starting 9 could be just fine especially with that rotation.

Look for a strong lefty bullpen arm (who isn't) so you can move Thorton to setup man instead of having to keep him for tough LHH.

With both Beckham and Getz showing signs of life this team isn't as far from contention as they seemed a few weeks ago. Heck, even BA is back to his early season form with a shortened stroke and going the other way most of the time and of course we still play in the ALC, so getting to the playoffs isn't as tough as it might be if the Sox were in a different division.

Hartman
06-18-2009, 06:38 PM
I'll add that we should BUY BUY BUY someone UNDER the age of 35.

35th and Shields
06-18-2009, 06:40 PM
Here's my question where do you go? Up until today the bullpen has been good. The rotation has really picked up. Anderson is showing confidence, having good at bats as well playing gold glove defense. Beckham needs to play everyday. That leaves us with Getz.

I was thinking the same thing. I still think we need to see what some of these guys can do. Overall I think getz has been doing ok, he needs to keep hitting but defense has been good other then today's game.

Anderson has also been playing well this last week or two with consistent playing time. I think this team can win the division but I think we'll need another pitcher. Jose will probably not keep pitching this well and we will defiantly need more then 3 reliable starters to sneak our way into the playoffs.

voodoochile
06-18-2009, 06:40 PM
Damage? The best I see this team doing is backing into the playoffs like last year, losing in the first round. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing consecutive playoff appearances for the first time in franchise history.

With potentially 4 solid starting pitchers, the Sox have the chance to do damage in the playoffs which ALWAYS come down to that simple concept.

Mohoney
06-18-2009, 06:42 PM
I was thinking about this yesterday, and I'm wondering, where can we add?

IMO, we're definitely not going to be replacing any of the following positions: C, 1B, SS, 3B, DH, or RF, and once Quentin comes back, LF is solidified as well. So that pretty much leaves 2B and CF, and personally, I would be fine with Getz and Pods for the rest of the year.

35th and Shields
06-18-2009, 06:42 PM
With potentially 4 solid starting pitchers, the Sox have the chance to do damage in the playoffs which ALWAYS come down to that simple concept.

I wish I had the confidence in our rotation as you do. I'm still not sold on Jose or Richard being able to lead this team into the playoffs.

voodoochile
06-18-2009, 06:45 PM
I wish I had the confidence in our rotation as you do. I'm still not sold on Jose or Richard being able to lead this team into the playoffs.

Not counting on Richard at all. Jose is still questionable, but has at least looked like he could return to form and be a force for the team. If not, they could probably put together a package for another starter. They just missed once and nothing in that has happened since has dramatically decreased the trade value of the original offering. Add in Poreda as a darkhorse candidate to grab a slot in the rotation. He has pitched once but had a real solid outing (though I admit I didn't see it, merely going off of the stats he hung up).

DaveFeelsRight
06-18-2009, 06:45 PM
I don't even know how long quentin is out for. ozzie said he'll be back after the all-star break, others say sooner.

voodoochile
06-18-2009, 06:46 PM
I don't even know how long quentin is out for. ozzie said he'll be back after the all-star break, others say sooner.

The Sox should still be in contention at the break regardless, so if it takes that long for him to get back with the team at the least the Sox will be locked and stocked for the second half.

JB98
06-18-2009, 06:48 PM
I don't know if that's true...

Right now Beckham is getting valuable at bats against major league pitching and being allowed to play every day at 3rd so the Sox will know what they need to do for next year. Getz is even on a nice little hot streak recently to get his batting average back up and is in fact posting close to an .800 OPS over his last 7 games.

The biggest moves are going to be getting back to AL ball and getting TCQ back. That in and of itself adds two huge bats to the lineup.

If the Sox went the rest of the year with this lineup:

Pods CF
TCM SS
Dye RF
Thome DH
TCQ LF
PK 1B
AJ C
Getz 2B
Beckham 3B

They'd probably have enough talent to win and would be developing at least two players for next year.

Add in a top 4 rotation of

Buehlre
Floyd
Danks
Contreras
(Richard/Colon)

and the Sox are in pretty good shape. There's no depth at all for the offensive side as all the other players have proven to be pretty worthless, but at the moment the potential starting 9 could be just fine especially with that rotation.

Look for a strong lefty bullpen arm (who isn't) so you can move Thorton to setup man instead of having to keep him for tough LHH.

With both Beckham and Getz showing signs of life this team isn't as far from contention as they seemed a few weeks ago. Heck, even BA is back to his early season form with a shortened stroke and going the other way most of the time and of course we still play in the ALC, so getting to the playoffs isn't as tough as it might be if the Sox were in a different division.

I think they need an outfielder for sure. I don't think you can count on TCQ to get healthy and stay healthy. Anderson had a good game today, and I think he's fine as a fourth outfielder. But this team needs more offense and our outfield simply has not been productive enough, even with the Pods renaissance.

Getz .... nice offensive game today, but is he the answer at 2B if we want to win this year? I don't think so. If we're building for the future, I think you leave Getz alone. But if we're going for it now, KW should look for some middle infield help.

Beckham is our guy, both now and in the future. I think you let him play and leave him alone.

I wouldn't mind seeing another right-handed arm for the bullpen either. Dotel is erratic, and I'm wondering whether Linebrink can hold up for a whole year.

That all assumes we are going for it. If we're blowing it up, I have a whole different group of ideas for that scenario. But I think we already had that thread.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 06:48 PM
Here's my question where do you go? Up until today the bullpen has been good. The rotation has really picked up. Anderson is showing confidence, having good at bats as well playing gold glove defense. Beckham needs to play everyday. That leaves us with Getz.
They really could use a good third baseman and move Beckham to 2B where he belongs.

If they could package Getz and Fields together with a prospect or two to get a package in return that includes a quality third baseman that would be ideal.

I wonder what it would cost to get Tejada from the Astros and play him at third. He shouldn't be too expensive talent-wise, and he should be a type A free agent so the Sox could recoup on minor league talent they might be sending to get him. A lineup like:

Pods LF
Tejada 3B
Dye RF
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Ramirez SS
Beckham 2B
Anderson CF

looks pretty solid. If/When Quentin is healthy, he can start in place of Anderson with Pods moving over to center. Bat Q sixth and slide evryone after him down one slot. After Q bats for the fourth time, put Anderson in CF for defense and slide Pods over to LF.

This gives the Sox an excellent shot at the division without really impacting the future negatively.

DaveFeelsRight
06-18-2009, 06:49 PM
As for tejada, he said he wants to finish his career in houston.

voodoochile
06-18-2009, 06:53 PM
I think they need an outfielder for sure. I don't think you can count on TCQ to get healthy and stay healthy. Anderson had a good game today, and I think he's fine as a fourth outfielder. But this team needs more offense and our outfield simply has not been productive enough, even with the Pods renaissance.

Getz .... nice offensive game today, but is he the answer at 2B if we want to win this year? I don't think so. If we're building for the future, I think you leave Getz alone. But if we're going for it now, KW should look for some middle infield help.

Beckham is our guy, both now and in the future. I think you let him play and leave him alone.

I wouldn't mind seeing another right-handed arm for the bullpen either. Dotel is erratic, and I'm wondering whether Linebrink can hold up for a whole year.

That all assumes we are going for it. If we're blowing it up, I have a whole different group of ideas for that scenario. But I think we already had that thread.

Acquire a lefty reliever and then bump Thornton to setup and linebrink and Dotel can be the Roogies.

Harry Potter
06-18-2009, 06:53 PM
if we do something, we have a very good chance to contend because we are only 3.5 out.

Patrick, sometimes your posts make me think you are the re-incarnation of MCHSoxFan (without the seizure-like fits)

BigP50
06-18-2009, 06:59 PM
Patrick, sometimes your posts make me think you are the re-incarnation of MCHSoxFan (without the seizure-like fits)


bad thing?

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 06:59 PM
I think they need an outfielder for sure. I don't think you can count on TCQ to get healthy and stay healthy. Anderson had a good game today, and I think he's fine as a fourth outfielder. But this team needs more offense and our outfield simply has not been productive enough, even with the Pods renaissance.

Add to the equation that Dye is nagged by his calf injury. It would be nice if the Sox can acquire a solid bat in the outfield. But who?

Getz .... nice offensive game today, but is he the answer at 2B if we want to win this year? I don't think so. If we're building for the future, I think you leave Getz alone. But if we're going for it now, KW should look for some middle infield help.

I'm not sold on Getz as being the second baseman of the future. He's not much better than mediocre on defense and I don't think you'd want him at second with Beckham at third. Beckham should be the starting second baseman and the Sox should try to acquire a better offensive weapon at third.

Beckham is our guy, both now and in the future. I think you let him play and leave him alone.

I wouldn't mind seeing another right-handed arm for the bullpen either. Dotel is erratic, and I'm wondering whether Linebrink can hold up for a whole year.

Agreed.

That all assumes we are going for it. If we're blowing it up, I have a whole different group of ideas for that scenario. But I think we already had that thread.
I'm against "blowing it up" I want to win now. This division is there for the taking.

JB98
06-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Acquire a lefty reliever and then bump Thornton to setup and linebrink and Dotel can be the Roogies.

I'm not so sure there's anybody out there who would do a better job than Poreda.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 07:01 PM
As for tejada, he said he wants to finish his career in houston.
I didn't hear that. Does he have an NTC?

I wonder if someone like Beltre can be had?

Mohoney
06-18-2009, 07:04 PM
Acquire a lefty reliever and then bump Thornton to setup and linebrink and Dotel can be the Roogies.

I was kind of hoping for this to be where Poreda fits in.

Gobble
Poreda
Carrasco
Dotel
Linebrink
Thornton (solidified as the 8th inning guy)
Jenks

I think that the first 5 guys can be mixed and matched, playing to whoever is hot at the time, whoever is fresh, etc. and Poreda steps in as the primary Loogy.

JB98
06-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Add to the equation that Dye is nagged by his calf injury. It would be nice if the Sox can acquire a solid bat in the outfield. But who?



I'm not sold on Getz as being the second baseman of the future. He's not much better than mediocre on defense and I don't think you'd want him at second with Beckham at third. Beckham should be the starting second baseman and the Sox should try to acquire a better offensive weapon at third.



Agreed.


I'm against "blowing it up" I want to win now. This division is there for the taking.

Great question. I have no idea who is available. I would imagine KW does. Hopefully, he can find somebody.

Interesting thoughts on Getz. I think there's some potential there, but I don't think we can win this year while living with the growing pains of both him and Beckham. Clearly, Beckham has the higher upside, so he's the guy you stick with no matter what. It seems like you and I are in agreement that we need to fill a hole in the outfield and a hole in the infield.

Maybe we get an infielder and pray TCQ stays healthy. Or maybe we just find somebody better than Wise to provide us a little insurance in the outfield.

KRS1
06-18-2009, 07:13 PM
I don't know if that's true...

Said pretty much everything I was going to in response to the OP. We have 4 SPs really rounding into shape and getting hot, a pen that (despite today's meltdown) is very solid, and a young lineup that is holding down the fort. I know some will say the young kids holding down the fort isn't enough, but it's more about the fact that they aren't bombing as they are finding their niche and getting valuable ML experience.

I've liked Getz from day one (even after that horrible/costly error lol), and I'm very glad to have that kind of player on this team. He has a role, knows it, and has shown me plenty enough to see him as a solid big leaguer in the fundamental scrapper mold who can turn over a lineup and possibly hit 2 down the road.
Beckham is and will continue to come around as time goes on and the comfort level rises.
Lexi may not be setting the world on fire, and the slump to start the season really seemed to bring down his confidence, but it's hard to ignore all the flashes he shows and the tools he has.

That's a promising young IF and I still do believe all three can heat up while helping to shoulder the load this season, and definitely in the future. A healthy TCQ changes the lineups dynamic so much, and that is really as big of an impact move for this lineup as any we could make.

The biggest trade that I would make right now, looking around at who is on the market or reasonably possible to get moved, would probably be to try and get something for Dotel and/or Linebrink. Though I'm sure there will be many to argue against that as it would seemingly weaken our pen and leave us way too young and inexperienced to make that push for the division. I won't disagree with that one bit, I'd just like to try and turn those two into something of value before it's too late. Of course if something should pop up that makes sense for our OF and Carlos isn't looking to be worth the risk of pushing him back, I'm all for it. It's just looking like a lot of Matt Holliday types for prime spects and the right to lose him at the end of the season.

getonbckthr
06-18-2009, 07:19 PM
What about Scott Rolen?

getonbckthr
06-18-2009, 07:25 PM
What about Scott Rolen?
Maybe not I thought Toronto was further out of it.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 07:26 PM
What about Scott Rolen?
I wouldn't mind Rolen as long as they didn't give up too much for him. He's a proven major league quality third baseman and is a good OBP guy. I wonder if Toronto is thinking of selling and if they are what they would want for him.

KRS1
06-18-2009, 07:31 PM
What about Scott Rolen?

What about him? Toronto probably wants top value even though he's 34, due 12mm the next two season, and do you really think he can ride out this hot/healthy streak? He has only played more than 70% of a season once since 05'.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 07:40 PM
What about him? Toronto probably wants top value even though he's 34, due 12mm the next two season, and do you really think he can ride out this hot/healthy streak? He has only played more than 70% of a season once since 05'.
If Toronto expects to get top value for Rolen in this market they're sadly mistaken. In fact, they would probably have to kick in a good chunk of his salary to move him.

I'd give them Fields and a prospect or two (not one of the top ones) for Rolen plus half of his salary.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2009, 07:41 PM
Here's the names:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090618

Sports Illustrated this week lists the following:

Mark DeRosa
Jamey Carroll
Kerry Wood
Carl Pavano
Erik Bedard
Jarrod Washburn
Adrian Beltre
Brad Hawpe
Huston Street
Jason Marquis
Ryan Spilborghs
Matt Holliday
Miguel Tejada
Jose Valverde
Nick Johnson

Lip

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 07:49 PM
Here's the names:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090618

Sports Illustrated this week lists the following:

Mark DeRosa
Jamey Carroll
Kerry Wood
Carl Pavano
Erik Bedard
Jarrod Washburn
Adrian Beltre
Brad Hawpe
Huston Street
Jason Marquis
Ryan Spilborghs
Matt Holliday
Miguel Tejada
Jose Valverde
Nick Johnson

Lip
I wonder what it would take to get Beltre. Shouldn't be much.

Medford Bobby
06-18-2009, 07:51 PM
I wonder what it would take to get Beltre.
Beltre...hands down!

KRS1
06-18-2009, 07:52 PM
If Toronto expects to get top value for Rolen in this market they're sadly mistaken. In fact, they would probably have to kick in a good chunk of his salary to move him.

I'd give them Fields and a prospect or two (not one of the top ones) for Rolen plus half of his salary.

They'll just keep saying, "He helps us more keeping him than trading him for anything less." Will they stick to that and actually believe they still have a chance? Probably not, but if a team wants him, they won't be getting him on the cheap.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2009, 07:53 PM
S.I. said Beltre's still owed seven million on his deal.

Lip

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 07:54 PM
They'll just keep saying, "He helps us more keeping him than trading him for anything less." Will they stick to that and actually believe they still have a chance? Probably not, but if a team wants him, they won't be getting him on the cheap.
That's fine. I'd rather get Tejada anyway. He'd be a big boost at third base this year and then he'll be a type A free agent.

KRS1
06-18-2009, 07:56 PM
Beltre...hands down!

How exactly does he help us? By adding more strikeouts, less plate discipline, and more of the all or nothing approach? Pass. Getz may not have the power the guy does, but he is the direction I'd rather see this team go in. Not completely of course, but he has that potential to add that missing dimension of #2 style hitter that we sorely need.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 07:57 PM
S.I. said Beltre's still owed seven million on his deal.

Lip
What's the story behind his lack of power this season? He kind of intrigues me and scares me off at the same time. I'm thinking since he's owed so much money he could be had rather easily. It would be a gamble but would it be worth it? I'm not sure but I'd hope KW is doing due diligence on him (I'm sure he is).

KRS1
06-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Here's the names

I love me some Brad Hawpe.

JB98
06-18-2009, 08:06 PM
I love me some Brad Hawpe.

Hell yes. Unfortunately, so would a lot of teams. Dude is a doubles machine.

KRS1
06-18-2009, 08:08 PM
Hell yes. Unfortunately, so would a lot of teams. Dude is a doubles machine.
He's carried my fantasy team for long stretches of droughts amongst players like Hamilton for two years straight now.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 08:09 PM
Hell yes. Unfortunately, so would a lot of teams. Dude is a doubles machine.
His home/road splits would concern me.

DSpivack
06-18-2009, 08:14 PM
His home/road splits would concern me.

I just looked them up. Unlike Holliday, they're not too drastic.

Career splits:
Home: .295/.383/.522/.906
Away: .281/.374/.476/.861

KRS1
06-18-2009, 08:14 PM
His home/road splits would concern me.

His career splits are actually quite similar. Slightly better in the % stats, but his hits, doubles and hrs are damn near equal across the board in 48 more road ABs. The guy is a ball player.

JB98
06-18-2009, 08:14 PM
His home/road splits would concern me.

True, but it doesn't take much to be an upgrade from Anderson and Wise.

Mohoney
06-18-2009, 08:17 PM
I wonder how much the Indians would want for DeRosa?

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 08:22 PM
I just looked them up. Unlike Holliday, they're not too drastic.

Career splits:
Home: .295/.383/.522/.906
Away: .281/.374/.476/.861
OK, his career splits aren't that bad.

I was looking at his 2009 splits and they were something like .438 avg home and only .276 away.

Medford Bobby
06-18-2009, 08:26 PM
What's the story behind his lack of power this season? He kind of intrigues me and scares me off at the same time. I'm thinking since he's owed so much money he could be had rather easily. It would be a gamble but would it be worth it? I'm not sure but I'd hope KW is doing due diligence on him (I'm sure he is).

Yea he was a Gold glover last year, but he's hitting a bucket of suck so far this year......?:scratch:

DSpivack
06-18-2009, 08:31 PM
OK, his career splits aren't that bad.

I was looking at his 2009 splits and they were something like .438 avg home and only .276 away.

Yeah, he's off to a ridiculous start at home thus far, but the Rockies have also had quite a few more road games than home, too. Also, while off to a torrid start at home, his road numbers are neither bad nor far removed from his career road splits, at .276/.364/.520/.884.

drewcifer
06-18-2009, 08:39 PM
I wonder what it would take to get Beltre. Shouldn't be much.

This is exactly who I've been thinking about for the last couple weeks.

Looking at our most successful seasons in the last 15, they have good offensive production out of the 3B in common (Ventura, Perry, Crede). I don't know if we have the goods to do a deadline trade/signing for him (or even want to), but I hope we do look at him if he makes the market as an FA this offseason... we have 2 young 2Bs, 2 young natural SSs, one of which is a year out of college and playing 3B. And Viciedo doesn't appear to be projecting too well to be a daily 3B....

He (Beltre) could really be an impact player and he's still only 30.

DickAllen72
06-18-2009, 09:10 PM
This is exactly who I've been thinking about for the last couple weeks.

Looking at our most successful seasons in the last 15, they have good offensive production out of the 3B in common (Ventura, Perry, Crede). I don't know if we have the goods to do a deadline trade/signing for him (or even want to), but I hope we do look at him if he makes the market as an FA this offseason... we have 2 young 2Bs, 2 young natural SSs, one of which is a year out of college and playing 3B. And Viciedo doesn't appear to be projecting too well to be a daily 3B....

He (Beltre) could really be an impact player and he's still only 30.
He's off to a terrible start this year but I keep thinking about how nobody wanted Mike Lowell a few years ago. The Marlins were begging people to take him and were insisting on throwing him in on their trade proposals which became deal busters. Finally Boston agrees to take him off their hands and he reverts to being one of the better third basemen in baseball.

I don't know what the story with Beltre is but it's something for KW to ponder as long as he can get him cheap.

Dick Allen
06-18-2009, 09:27 PM
Beltre hasn't been the same since his last year with the Dodgers, when he was in his contract year.

BigP50
06-18-2009, 09:46 PM
DeRosa to the South Side, who's with me?

JB98
06-18-2009, 09:47 PM
DeRosa to the South Side, who's with me?

I'd take him, but the cost would be high because every team in the NL Central wants him. Do we really want to give any of our prospects to Cleveland? Such a move could bite us for years.

drewcifer
06-18-2009, 10:20 PM
Beltre hasn't been the same since his last year with the Dodgers, when he was in his contract year.

Nope, I agree. But he switched leagues and playing with the Mariners is probably THE most difficult team to sustain any level of success with. You'd be hard pressed to find a more difficult schedule to groove and rhythm into with any other team in any other sport. Like was said in the other post about Lowell - diamond in the rough potential. KW loves those.

DirtySox
06-18-2009, 10:23 PM
If anything is to be acquired, I think a bat is needed. We can't count on Quentin coming back after the all-star break to give this team a boost. It seems like people haven't read the recent article on Q. He has a partially torn tendon in his foot. He will be trying to play with it, but it is very likely that tendon will tear completely thereby requiring surgery and ending his season. Even if it doesn't break he will be having the surgery at the end of the year.

Tragg
06-18-2009, 10:25 PM
We just don't have much to trade. Players are usually overpriced.
We could use a bat.

drewcifer
06-18-2009, 10:27 PM
If anything is to be acquired, I think a bat is needed. We can't count on Quentin coming back after the all-star break to give this team a boost. It seems like people haven't read the recent article on Q. He has a partially torn tendon in his foot. He will be trying to play with it, but it is very likely that tendon will tear completely thereby requiring surgery and ending his season. Even if it doesn't break he will be having the surgery at the end of the year.

I agree with you. Aside from CF (a premium DEFENSIVE position), our worst offensive position to fill is 3B:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=CHW&year=2009#defp

thomas35forever
06-18-2009, 10:53 PM
I like the lineup voodoo laid out. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that game in and game out, they're either going to be very consistent or suck a long one. That said, I don't think adding another bat is going to do much good at this point. Whomever we acquire for the offense/glove would just fall into place with the rest of the lineup and be just as streaky as everyone else. Plus, it would just hold back the development of the younger players regardless of the position of the new acquisition.

If we acquire anything, it should be another starter. Our bullpen is very consistent sans Linebrink and often times Dotel. It would be nice to fill that fifth-starter spot. If we do that, I think it'll all depend on the offense finding some consistency, which could equal a division championship for us. I would love to gain a second consecutive playoff berth.

central44
06-18-2009, 11:20 PM
I'd take him, but the cost would be high because every team in the NL Central wants him. Do we really want to give any of our prospects to Cleveland? Such a move could bite us for years.

I agree but it really is a shame. He'd be a perfect fit for this team--the kind of clubhouse presence you'd love to have in order to build good chemistry, plus his versatility on a team that has aging and untalented players (Wise/Fields would no longer be needed). He's the type of player who could easily fill a big role on a contending team. Its unfortuanate he went to Cleveland because I could definitley see him as someone who could help this team, but it would be dumb of KW to strengthen Cleveland in the future.

PhillipsBubba
06-18-2009, 11:54 PM
Here's my question where do you go? Up until today the bullpen has been good. The rotation has really picked up. Anderson is showing confidence, having good at bats as well playing gold glove defense. Beckham needs to play everyday. That leaves us with Getz.

You make a good point...on one hand I'm encouraged by the play of the guys you mentioned. Getz had some big hits against the Cubs but made a costly error today. The bullpen has been good although Ozzie seems worried about Linebrink.

A little more punch in the line up might be enough but then I wonder if Contreras will continue to pitch as he has.:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:

I have faith that KW will make a move or two.

tm1119
06-18-2009, 11:57 PM
Since when is just squeaking into the playoffs good enough? Why trade off the future to lose in the 1st round again? This team has a bunch of good pieces to build around, we just need to replace some extra baggage that is holding us back(thome, 4th&5th starters). No one that we actually have a chance of trading for right now is going to win us a ring, so whats the point?

Lip Man 1
06-19-2009, 12:06 AM
TM:

You bring up a good point and I'm not arguing with you but I could also see the White Sox saying internally to themselves, 'you know our attendance has dropped 500,000 since the end of the 2006 season. We may get blown out in the first round but it would help in retaining ticket holders and advertisers if we could tell them ...we made the playoffs in back to back seasons.'

Lip

Harry Potter
06-19-2009, 12:10 AM
if we could tell them ...we made the playoffs in back to back seasons.

Something we haven't done since... hmm... ever :(:

tm1119
06-19-2009, 12:24 AM
TM:

You bring up a good point and I'm not arguing with you but I could also see the White Sox saying internally to themselves, 'you know our attendance has dropped 500,000 since the end of the 2006 season. We may get blown out in the first round but it would help in retaining ticket holders and advertisers if we could tell them ...we made the playoffs in back to back seasons.'

Lip

Yeah I see what you are saying, but we really haven't had a very good team since then either. We have a few FA's in key positions after this season as well, and management has not exactly shown the willingness to sign big FA's to replace them either. What if we start off next year the same? Do we trade more young guys off to keep plugging this thing up? I think everybody wil admit that this team needs to be fixed. And in my opinion we should just fix it now, even if it means missing the playoffs for a year or 2. The fans always come back when the team starts winning.

voodoochile
06-19-2009, 12:45 AM
Yeah I see what you are saying, but we really haven't had a very good team since then either. We have a few FA's in key positions after this season as well, and management has not exactly shown the willingness to sign big FA's to replace them either. What if we start off next year the same? Do we trade more young guys off to keep plugging this thing up? I think everybody wil admit that this team needs to be fixed. And in my opinion we should just fix it now, even if it means missing the playoffs for a year or 2. The fans always come back when the team starts winning.Well, first of all, the Sox aren't that far away from being a contender. With Beckham and Getz both showing signs of being able to hit MLB pitching they are also getting valuable experience for players who may end up saving them a ton of money at two must fill slots for the next several years.

The biggest question is the bottom two slots of the rotation and whether TCQ will return to form this year or next (or is last year will end up being a delicious tease for a guy who cannot stay healthy). But with TCQ expected back by the ASG (sooner?) the Sox might be as little as a a reliever from being right back in the thick of the hunt unless you think a top 4 rotation of Buehrle, Danks, Floyd and Contreras isn't good enough to compete in the playoffs (I think it is). If not, then it might mean making more trade for a starting pitcher but the Sox have already shown they are willing to take on Peavy's salary this year so there's no reason to think they can't try to acquire a different expensive pitcher.

This team is injured and because of the NL parks is playing down two big bats at the moment. With TCM heating up and Pods providing a spark at the top of the lineup the Sox offense in the second half is going to be dramatically better than it was the first half (if healthy that is).

Certainly buying now for pitching that is signed past this season would be an acceptable risk. Not sure the offense needs much tweaking anyway, but I would like to see a better bench than Fields and Nix are currently providing.

The question I have for you, is what do you mean by the statement pluggin it up? Thome is gone next year and so is Contreras. Colon is a one year rental, Dotal is gone. Dye probably will have his option picked up and PK is here through 2010. After that it's AJ, Buehrle and a bunch of kids.

TCM, TCQ, Beckham, Getz, Floyd, Danks, Poreda and Richard are all very young. No guarantees on Poreda or Richard, but if nothing else they would make good trade pieces. Buehrle has another contract in him after this one is up provided he doesn't decide to pack up his truck and ride off into the sunset. You're looking at replacing 1-2 pieces a year for the next few years and during that time the Sox should easily be able to stay competitive.

It's not like this team is old and getting older. They have a few older players, but they are coming off the books. There aren't any seriously bad contracts on the team that would hamper the Sox from being free agent players and they should have $30M to play with this off season before signing Danks and Jenks.

In short there's ample reason to believe this team can both plug up this team and build for the future...

drewcifer
06-19-2009, 12:53 AM
Well, first of all, the Sox aren't that far away from being a contender. With Beckham and Getz both showing signs of being able to hit MLB pitching they are also getting valuable experience for players who may end up saving them a ton of money at two must fill slots for the next several years.

The biggest question is the bottom two slots of the rotation and whether TCQ will return to form this year or next (or is last year will end up being a delicious tease for a guy who cannot stay healthy). But with TCQ expected back by the ASG (sooner?) the Sox might be as little as a a reliever from being right back in the thick of the hunt unless you think a top 4 rotation of Buehrle, Danks, Floyd and Contreras isn't good enough to compete in the playoffs (I think it is). If not, then it might mean making more trade for a starting pitcher but the Sox have already shown they are willing to take on Peavy's salary this year so there's no reason to think they can't try to acquire a different expensive pitcher.

This team is injured and because of the NL parks is playing down two big bats at the moment. With TCM heating up and Pods providing a spark at the top of the lineup the Sox offense in the second half is going to be dramatically better than it was the first half (if healthy that is).

Certainly buying now for pitching that is signed past this season would be an acceptable risk. Not sure the offense needs much tweaking anyway, but I would like to see a better bench than Fields and Nix are currently providing.

The question I have for you, is what do you mean by the statement pluggin it up? Thome is gone next year and so is Contreras. Colon is a one year rental, Dotal is gone. Dye probably will have his option picked up and PK is here through 2010. After that it's AJ, Buehrle and a bunch of kids.

TCM, TCQ, Beckham, Getz, Floyd, Danks, Poreda and Richard are all very young. No guarantees on Poreda or Richard, but if nothing else they would make good trade pieces. Buehrle has another contract in him after this one is up provided he doesn't decide to pack up his truck and ride off into the sunset. You're looking at replacing 1-2 pieces a year for the next few years and during that time the Sox should easily be able to stay competitive.

It's not like this team is old and getting older. They have a few older players, but they are coming off the books. There aren't any seriously bad contracts on the team that would hamper the Sox from being free agent players and they should have $30M to play with this off season before signing Danks and Jenks.

In short there's ample reason to believe this team can both plug up this team and build for the future...

Sounds like you are still afraid to get young..you like it, when you see hope... Danks sucked his first year, remember?

What the **** about 3B????

voodoochile
06-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Sounds like you are still afraid to get young..you like it, when you see hope... Danks sucked his first year, remember?

What the **** about 3B????

I don't mind getting young if the young players are ready, but people want to push that button with no clue to the consequences and any team with an all youth movement is going to suck for a couple of years and not only be hard on attendance but merely stuff a bunch of money in the owner's pocket.

No, I don't want to see guys like Dye and Konerko and Buehrle traded off to make room for question marks playing at AA. I don't mind moving Thome or Contreras, but don't really see the point other than to weaken the team and save money this year. They are gone come November no matter what, so unless they can bring a big return, they shouldn't be traded.

It's kind of a vague statement anyway... what do you mean, "go young"?

Is this the same complaint as "propping things up"?

Give some examples of what you want to do. Maybe we aren't that far apart, but if you are talking about a wholesale dismantling, you better have answers for who's going to provide the middle of the order bats.

russ99
06-19-2009, 10:20 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I still think we need to see what some of these guys can do. Overall I think getz has been doing ok, he needs to keep hitting but defense has been good other then today's game.

Anderson has also been playing well this last week or two with consistent playing time. I think this team can win the division but I think we'll need another pitcher. Jose will probably not keep pitching this well and we will defiantly need more then 3 reliable starters to sneak our way into the playoffs.

I've been seeing enough from Getz and Beckham to leave them there. I'm not Anderson's biggest fan, but I agree defensively he's important to the team regardless of his often limited production.

IMO, we need to add two things to have a shot at the division, and maybe a little more (and neither should cost us our top prospects):

1) Starter. Buehrle, Danks and Floyd look great, but to bank the season on Richard's up and down performance and Contreras holding everything together (despite two great outings) isn't a good idea. One more decent inning-eating starter (we don't really need an Oswalt or Peavy) removes one of those two question marks and pushes both players to perform to keep their spot. And it keeps Poreda in the pen, where he will do well and learn enough to grab a rotation spot next year.

2) Outfield. The elephant in the room - what if Quentin either can't go or is limited the rest of the season? We need a big league hitter for the outfield in the event this happens, which I haven't heard anything positive from the club that it won't. Besides, that builds a weakness into a strength. Wise is cut and Anderson at best platoons with the new guy and Pods, or is our defensive bench outfielder. If Quentin does come back close to 100%, the new guy rotates around the corner OF positions and DH to keep the older guys fresh.

3) One more hitter for the bench. In pennant race/playoff baseball, we need better results in sub/pinch hit duty then we're getting from the kids. Maybe this is also a backup SS/3B.

Trade bait: Fields, Lillibridge, maybe Richard, prospects-but not guys in the top 15. We have a lot of good pitchers in the system that would interest other teams.

Whitesoxfan23
06-19-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm still not sold on Getz at all.

cws05champ
06-19-2009, 10:25 AM
I like the Idea of bringing in Scott Rolen. Yes, he's older and injury prone, but when he's in there he's a pretty good hitter and plays GG defense. You can move Beckham to 2B and put Getz in the utility role he probably should be in.

If we can trade Fields and another prospect, I'd be for it.

downstairs
06-19-2009, 11:04 AM
Pods CF
TCM SS
Dye RF
Thome DH
TCQ LF
PK 1B
AJ C
Getz 2B
Beckham 3B




Not to threadjack, but what does TCM mean? That's Alexi right?

voodoochile
06-19-2009, 11:06 AM
Not to threadjack, but what does TCM mean? That's Alexi right?

Yes and it means The Cuban Missle.

Frater Perdurabo
06-19-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm not interested in trading high-quality prospects for one-year rentals.

However, I am interested in acquiring high-value talent that either already is signed for a few years, or can be signed long-term once acquired. Two examples that come to mind are the Garcia deal in 2004 (who KW locked up long-term shortly after the deal was made) and the almost-deal for Peavy (since Peavy is signed long-term).

I'm content with Beckham and Getz so far. I'm starting to lose patience with BA, but he's had a couple of good games lately, and perhaps he can get warm again and get his average up above .250, and improve with RISP.

I'm most interested in a #1/#2-quality starter, a lock-down reliever, and a natural CF who hits for high average, in that order.

White City
06-19-2009, 11:27 AM
If we believe TCQ is done for the year, then here is my solution:

Send Getz, Fields and a decent pitching prospect (might be able to keep Poreda) to the Atlanta Braves for Chipper Jones. We wait for the Braves to firesale -- it's going to happen soon -- and get an All-Star caliber (even at 37) third baseman who is signed for three more years at $42 million.

Chipper is a switch hitter, has very solid OPS that will translate to the American League, and I believe will want out when he sees that the Braves are going to tear things up and start over. Initially, he planned to retire after this season, but the contract extension will keep him in the game. He isn't showing signs of slowing this year, beyond his usual injury problems (averaging around 125 games played a season since 2003).

Lineup in the stretch might then be:

LF Pods
SS Ramirez
2B Beckham
RF Dye
DH Thome
3B Jones
1B Konerko
C Pyerzinski
CF Anderson

areilly
06-19-2009, 11:35 AM
I like the Idea of bringing in Scott Rolen. Yes, he's older and injury prone, but when he's in there he's a pretty good hitter and plays GG defense. You can move Beckham to 2B and put Getz in the utility role he probably should be in.

If we can trade Fields and another prospect, I'd be for it.

Yes. Let's make the team older and more hurt. And slower! Awesome.

:rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
06-19-2009, 11:39 AM
If we believe TCQ is done for the year, then here is my solution:

Send Getz, Fields and a decent pitching prospect (might be able to keep Poreda) to the Atlanta Braves for Chipper Jones. We wait for the Braves to firesale -- it's going to happen soon -- and get an All-Star caliber (even at 37) third baseman who is signed for three more years at $42 million.

Chipper is a switch hitter, has very solid OPS that will translate to the American League, and I believe will want out when he sees that the Braves are going to tear things up and start over. Initially, he planned to retire after this season, but the contract extension will keep him in the game. He isn't showing signs of slowing this year, beyond his usual injury problems (averaging around 125 games played a season since 2003).

Lineup in the stretch might then be:

LF Pods
SS Ramirez
2B Beckham
RF Dye
DH Thome
3B Jones
1B Konerko
C Pyerzinski
CF Anderson

I actually like that trade. But you'd really bat Beckham third in the middle of a pennant race?

DSpivack
06-19-2009, 12:09 PM
If we believe TCQ is done for the year, then here is my solution:

Send Getz, Fields and a decent pitching prospect (might be able to keep Poreda) to the Atlanta Braves for Chipper Jones. We wait for the Braves to firesale -- it's going to happen soon -- and get an All-Star caliber (even at 37) third baseman who is signed for three more years at $42 million.

Chipper is a switch hitter, has very solid OPS that will translate to the American League, and I believe will want out when he sees that the Braves are going to tear things up and start over. Initially, he planned to retire after this season, but the contract extension will keep him in the game. He isn't showing signs of slowing this year, beyond his usual injury problems (averaging around 125 games played a season since 2003).

Lineup in the stretch might then be:

LF Pods
SS Ramirez
2B Beckham
RF Dye
DH Thome
3B Jones
1B Konerko
C Pyerzinski
CF Anderson

I'd be shocked if Chipper goes anywhere.

WhiteSoxFTW
06-19-2009, 12:22 PM
I'd be shocked if Chipper goes anywhere.

I agree, and do we really want a 40 year old on this team in 3 years?

All in all, I really like the discussion here. As for me, I'm still really high on Getz. His back has been picking up lately, and if we forgive that late error yesterday, he shows some pretty good quickness and fielding up the middle. We have to remember this is his first full year in the majors. In terms of BA, you really need to hold onto him as a 4th outfielder. We have two possible defensive liabilities late in close games, and he could step into any OF position. Fields is dead to me, but if you trade him, you need to get some sort of 1b/3b backup somewhere.

Lip Man 1
06-19-2009, 12:27 PM
An opposite opinion:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1630181,CST-SPT-deluca19.article

Lip

jabrch
06-19-2009, 12:45 PM
An opposite opinion:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1630181,CST-SPT-deluca19.article

Lip


If we are to sell, we have a ton of pieces that we should be able to capitalize on. If Contreras keeps this up, he's a huge piece. Same with Pods. Then you have JD/PK and even Thome if someone in the AL needs a DH. Our pen is loaded with guys who teams would want - Jenks of course, but Linebrink, Dotel and Thornton would all be heavily sought after if we put any of them up on the market. (note - I am not suggesting we give anyone up cheaply)

If KW is selling, he should be able to get a few great deals with all he has to move.

White City
06-19-2009, 01:07 PM
I actually like that trade. But you'd really bat Beckham third in the middle of a pennant race?

Well, that might be pretty optimistic on my part. But I am presuming by then that he will be up to speed on major league pitching, and I like the idea of having a lineup like this:

Pods = speed/nuisance
TCM = power + speed/puts it in play
Beckham = natural gap hitter
Dye = POWER/protecting Beckham

You could argue that Chipper in the three spot makes a lot more sense, with maybe Beckham at 2 and TCM at 6. But so far, I like the potential of this Pods/TCM experiment at the top of the order.

tm1119
06-19-2009, 01:39 PM
I don't mind getting young if the young players are ready, but people want to push that button with no clue to the consequences and any team with an all youth movement is going to suck for a couple of years and not only be hard on attendance but merely stuff a bunch of money in the owner's pocket.

No, I don't want to see guys like Dye and Konerko and Buehrle traded off to make room for question marks playing at AA. I don't mind moving Thome or Contreras, but don't really see the point other than to weaken the team and save money this year. They are gone come November no matter what, so unless they can bring a big return, they shouldn't be traded.

It's kind of a vague statement anyway... what do you mean, "go young"?

Is this the same complaint as "propping things up"?

Give some examples of what you want to do. Maybe we aren't that far apart, but if you are talking about a wholesale dismantling, you better have answers for who's going to provide the middle of the order bats.

I agree that we don't need a full dismantling because we do have a pretty good young core of players. I don't want to dismantle at all actually. I just don't want to see us trade off young players so we can lose in the 1st round again.
As far as what this team needs? CF and and 3B with some speed and high OBP's to replace Getz and Anderson. Both Getz and Anderson will make good utility players off of the bench, but I don't think either are good enough hitters to play everyday. We will also need to replace Thome with perferably another lefty bat with some pop. I think we also need to see what we have in Poreda to see if he can be a starter for us next season. Although I still dont think i would want to go into the season with both Richard and Poreda in the rotation.
Now is all of that realistic and going to happen in 1 offseasoon? Most likely not. But I think that if we are patient with this team things could turn out very good in the near future.

Lip Man 1
06-19-2009, 03:32 PM
Voodoo:

Which is why I suggested selling the pieces, giving the kids a chance for the rest of the year to let Kenny get an idea of what he needs and then going after the holes aggressively this off season in what is expected to be another buyer's market.

Lip

GAsoxfan
06-19-2009, 03:39 PM
If we believe TCQ is done for the year, then here is my solution:

Send Getz, Fields and a decent pitching prospect (might be able to keep Poreda) to the Atlanta Braves for Chipper Jones. We wait for the Braves to firesale -- it's going to happen soon -- and get an All-Star caliber (even at 37) third baseman who is signed for three more years at $42 million.

Chipper is a switch hitter, has very solid OPS that will translate to the American League, and I believe will want out when he sees that the Braves are going to tear things up and start over. Initially, he planned to retire after this season, but the contract extension will keep him in the game. He isn't showing signs of slowing this year, beyond his usual injury problems (averaging around 125 games played a season since 2003).

Lineup in the stretch might then be:

LF Pods
SS Ramirez
2B Beckham
RF Dye
DH Thome
3B Jones
1B Konerko
C Pyerzinski
CF Anderson

The Sox would have to give up a lot more than Getz/Fields/decent pitching prospect to get Chipper. Not only are two mediocre position players and a prospect not enough talent-wise, it would also be a PR nightmare for the Braves. With the front office already taking heat for their handling of Smoltz and Glavine (who were both past their productive years), giving away Chipper (who is still very productive) would be the last straw for a lot of fans down here.

khan
06-19-2009, 03:41 PM
I agree, and do we really want a 40 year old on this team in 3 years?

As a position player, no, I wouldn't want Chipper Jones in the team. But as a replacement lefty power bat DH for the soon-to-be-departing Jim Thome, why not?

If memory serves, I don't believe that any of the slugger prospects in the system are lefties. So picking up Jones buys KW some time to find that lefty power bat.

For 2009, it improves 3B immediately, both offensively and defensively, while adding some veteran experience in the IF.

Having said this, I doubt if Jones goes anywhere. He strikes me as the type that would invoke his 5/10 rights. At the same time, he's an icon at Turner Field, and therefore, possibly worth more to the Braves than to other teams.

Konerko05
06-19-2009, 03:48 PM
If memory serves, I don't believe that any of the slugger prospects in the system are lefties.

Brandon Allen.

tm1119
06-19-2009, 03:51 PM
Voodoo:

Which is why I suggested selling the pieces, giving the kids a chance for the rest of the year to let Kenny get an idea of what he needs and then going after the holes aggressively this off season in what is expected to be another buyer's market.

Lip

Sounds about right to me

khan
06-19-2009, 03:59 PM
Brandon Allen.

Thanks. I knew I forgot someone. But, this begs the question:

Will Allen be ready for Opening Day 2010? Or is his ETA more on the lines of Late 2010/Opening Day 2011?

UChicagoHP
06-19-2009, 04:12 PM
Thanks. I knew I forgot someone. But, this begs the question:

Will Allen be ready for Opening Day 2010? Or is his ETA more on the lines of Late 2010/Opening Day 2011?

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/Players/A/Brandon-Allen.shtml

.290/.372/.452/.824OPS as a 23 year-old in Birmingham, along with 7 HR's and improved plate discipline. I'm not sure he will be ready as a 24/25 year old, but it's good to see him getting better with each passing year. Anyone know if the kid can handle the glove?

Konerko05
06-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Thanks. I knew I forgot someone. But, this begs the question:

Will Allen be ready for Opening Day 2010? Or is his ETA more on the lines of Late 2010/Opening Day 2011?

He was just promoted to AAA Charlotte. I'm thinking he will get a September call-up this season, and he should be ready to start if a position opens up next season.

DirtySox
06-19-2009, 04:18 PM
Yes. Allen will be ready by the start of 2010 unless he falls off the map in AAA. He is above average defensively and expect his power numbers to go up now that he's left Birmingham.

khan
06-19-2009, 04:24 PM
OK, so I should assume that Allen will take on Thome's role in the roster in 2010, and then Konerko's in 2011, no?

White City
06-19-2009, 04:45 PM
The Sox would have to give up a lot more than Getz/Fields/decent pitching prospect to get Chipper. Not only are two mediocre position players and a prospect not enough talent-wise, it would also be a PR nightmare for the Braves. With the front office already taking heat for their handling of Smoltz and Glavine (who were both past their productive years), giving away Chipper (who is still very productive) would be the last straw for a lot of fans down here.

Hello, fellow Georgia Sox fan!

Frank Wren isn't sentimental; he learned from the best. That team is going nowhere this season or the next, and the offense needs a major overhaul.

Remember that Chipper was considering retirement after this season before they reached that extension in March. He was convinced in part to stick around because he felt the Braves would continue to try to win; however, I am predicting that the sorry state of the team and the still-cratering local economy are going to force Wren's hand to try to rebuild rather than be a buyer. Just a hunch.

Lord knows, unloading Chipper would be removing their final link to the past, which is a problem. But it would save the Braves a lot of money (and the headache of possibly seeing Chipper decline toward the end of the contract when he would have no trade value left).

I think the buying before the trade deadline will be very muted this year, and I can't think of a single team among the contenders that has a hole at 3B right now. As such, if Chipper gets disenchanted with a youth movement on the Braves, it is not that unrealistic to believe he would consent to a trade -- and that the one I proposed could be enough to land him.

Getz would make a fine infielder in the National League. Fields, for all his problems, could mash in the NL if he regained his power stroke, which I think has been a casualty of him trying to be something he isn't. Perhaps we have to give Aaron Poreda, which would be sad but possibly quite worth it to make this trade happen. But there could be some combination of Dexter Carter-type prospects that could fill in the gap to make the trade work.

Two years ago, the trade I proposed would be laughable. This year, it just might be within the realm of possibility. Either way, I honestly believe Chipper will be shopped, and I think the Sox are a very compelling match to the Braves for that trade.

RCWHITESOX
06-19-2009, 05:52 PM
I was thinking about this yesterday, and I'm wondering, where can we add?

IMO, we're definitely not going to be replacing any of the following positions: C, 1B, SS, 3B, DH, or RF, and once Quentin comes back, LF is solidified as well. So that pretty much leaves 2B and CF, and personally, I would be fine with Getz and Pods for the rest of the year.

The problem here is we don't know for sure when Quentin is going to be back; and ready to face major league pitching and even Dye has been having problems. We need OF depth and maybe another starter or reliever. Also if Roberts or Figgins becomes available you would have to consider it.

voodoochile
06-19-2009, 07:01 PM
Voodoo:

Which is why I suggested selling the pieces, giving the kids a chance for the rest of the year to let Kenny get an idea of what he needs and then going after the holes aggressively this off season in what is expected to be another buyer's market.

Lip

I only want kids who are ready to face MLB pitching up here. Beckham clearly is, IMO. The rest I don't want to rush.

If the team dumps Dye/PK they need to have a plan to fill middle of the order bats next year. I really don't see them getting much for any of the FAs to be on this team unless they go on a massive hot streak in which case, the team would be better off buying and going for it.

MisterB
06-19-2009, 09:15 PM
I only want kids who are ready to face MLB pitching up here. Beckham clearly is, IMO.

Interesting claim to make about a guy with a .502 OPS.

His at-bats must look really good, I guess...:dunno:

voodoochile
06-19-2009, 09:20 PM
Interesting claim to make about a guy with a .502 OPS.

His at-bats must look really good, I guess...:dunno:Considering how far he'scome in the last week and the type of contact he's making, I'm of the opinion he;ll be fine...

tm1119
06-19-2009, 10:32 PM
Considering how far he'scome in the last week and the type of contact he's making, I'm of the opinion he;ll be fine...

I'll agree. Only 5 k's in 40 AB's shows that he isnt completely lost at the plate and that the contact that he is making should fall in sooner rather than later.

NLaloosh
06-21-2009, 10:08 AM
Absolutely, let's buy Albert Pujols for Konerko and Clayton Richard. Let's buy Dan Haren for Aaron Poreda and Brandon Allen and Hanley Ramirez for Alexei Ramirez and Jordan Danks.

Then, let's buy Zack Greinke for Bartolo Colon, Jason Nix and Tyler Flowers. Lastly, let's buy Curtis Granderson for Jose Contreras, John Shelby and Juan Silverio.

Keep Dayan Viciedo. We don't want to give up the farm.

asindc
06-21-2009, 10:37 AM
I wonder how much the Indians would want for DeRosa?

I seriously doubt that Cleveland would trade him to a division rival.

parlaycard
06-21-2009, 11:03 AM
I wouldn't say that this is a bad team, but we are no where close to being a good team. If we don't do something the season will stay ust like this. Win a few games, it looks bright then we go on a losing streak. And its just the same pattern. We will just be a .500 or worse team if we dont do anything.

I agree, Its a really bad team.

The bull pen is totally useless.

Theyre lucky to take 1 of 3 vs other bad teams theyve been playing.

You have a few young pitchers who are pretty good, you have some young talent of which you dont know what youll get out of them unless you let them play. So youre going to eat many bad games with them. You have some guys hitting .128 who get starts here and there. A centerfielder with what im guessing is the lowest OPS of any regular starting outfielder in all of baseball, but he can field his position.

A really bad team.

parlaycard
06-21-2009, 11:09 AM
Absolutely, let's buy Albert Pujols for Konerko and Clayton Richard. Let's buy Dan Haren for Aaron Poreda and Brandon Allen and Hanley Ramirez for Alexei Ramirez and Jordan Danks.

Then, let's buy Zack Greinke for Bartolo Colon, Jason Nix and Tyler Flowers. Lastly, let's buy Curtis Granderson for Jose Contreras, John Shelby and Juan Silverio.

Keep Dayan Viciedo. We don't want to give up the farm.

Exactly. Sox fans are starting to sound like Cubs fans with their pie in the sky ideas of how to improve the Sox. This isnt fantasy baseball.

The Sox arent buying anything to improve the team this season.

More like Sell, Sell, Sell

Unfortunately, most of the pieces up for sale, are either too expensive or useless to other teams with what Sox fans think theyre going to get in return.

parlaycard
06-21-2009, 11:14 AM
Trade bait: Fields, Lillibridge, maybe Richard, prospects-but not guys in the top 15. We have a lot of good pitchers in the system that would interest other teams.[/QUOTE]

Dont you think other teams know Fields and Lillibridge suck? You cant get much of a return for them

russ99
06-21-2009, 11:21 AM
Dont you think other teams know Fields and Lillibridge suck? You cant get much of a return for them

Why did Kenny acquire Lillibridge and promote Fields? Potential.

Which is the same reason why they could also be pieces in a deal. Not as centerpieces for star players, but pieces along with prospects for roster upgrades like a 3rd/4th starter and an experienced hitter for the outfield as a stopgap for Quentin while he's out.

voodoochile
06-21-2009, 11:29 AM
I agree, Its a really bad team.

The bull pen is totally useless.

Theyre lucky to take 1 of 3 vs other bad teams theyve been playing.

You have a few young pitchers who are pretty good, you have some young talent of which you dont know what youll get out of them unless you let them play. So youre going to eat many bad games with them. You have some guys hitting .128 who get starts here and there. A centerfielder with what im guessing is the lowest OPS of any regular starting outfielder in all of baseball, but he can field his position.

A really bad team.

:darkcloud:

kitekrazy
06-21-2009, 01:31 PM
More like Sell, Sell, Sell
Unfortunately, most of the pieces up for sale, are either too expensive or useless to other teams with what Sox fans think theyre going to get in return.

I don't get the "blow the whole thing up". They did it after last season.
I want more improvement in the minors. If this isn't done what good is it to trade for prospects. This season has it's share of failed prospects.

parlaycard
06-21-2009, 07:11 PM
Why did Kenny acquire Lillibridge and promote Fields? Potential.

Which is the same reason why they could also be pieces in a deal. Not as centerpieces for star players, but pieces along with prospects for roster upgrades like a 3rd/4th starter and an experienced hitter for the outfield as a stopgap for Quentin while he's out.

Lillibridge's potential has been realized

Hes a AAA player, nothing more, never will be more than that unless a team has a lot of injuries and needs someone to call up to fill in for a couple of weeks.

balke
06-21-2009, 07:35 PM
The bull pen is totally useless.


FALSE. This is one of the best bullpens in the majors. Losing a game to the Cubs doesn't change that.

whitesoxfan
06-21-2009, 07:42 PM
You can argue all you want if this team is really bad, bad, or average. But at the end of the day, the Tigers aren't very good either and they're not going to run away with the division. That means our Sox are going to continue to hang around and by July 31st, I really doubt we'll be selling off pieces.

Tragg
06-21-2009, 07:46 PM
DeRosa? Middle infield isn't a weakness. There's some inverse Cubs-session with the Derosa love, I suspect.

We just don't have much to trade. Lillibridge? Productive utility infielders don't bring a huge return, and he isn't productive. Fields - we could get some mediocre veteran for him....that's about it.
Richard? For a good young player, sure trade him. For some mediocre veteran who just hits better than what we have? No way.
We need to hold onto Flowers and Allen.

voodoochile
06-21-2009, 11:18 PM
You can argue all you want if this team is really bad, bad, or average. But at the end of the day, the Tigers aren't very good either and they're not going to run away with the division. That means our Sox are going to continue to hang around and by July 31st, I really doubt we'll be selling off pieces.

In addition, without adding major pieces (and they are currently eating $30M+ in salary in Sheff and Maggs), how much better are the Kittens going to get this year? This is it. They are at their peak. Meanwhile, the Sox haven't hit at home, struggled to find consistency at 3 positions (CF, 2B, 3B) all of which are now producing and expected to get even better. We also had a horrible start to the year from a SP perspective aside from Buehrle and that too is coming around. And, finally, the team had no production from the top two slots in the batting order until mid-May and since then, it's been great. In addition, the Sox are not eating a ton of salary, are expected to lose a bunch off the books this winter and have shown interest in taking on up to $10M in salary for the rest of this year (Peavy deal). No reason not to think the Sox won't make a go of it in the second half as Beckham gets settled, TCQ returns and hopefully Getz continues to produce at least well enough to hit 9th. I won't be shocked if KW acquires a starting pitcher before the deadline either.

JB98
06-21-2009, 11:27 PM
You can argue all you want if this team is really bad, bad, or average. But at the end of the day, the Tigers aren't very good either and they're not going to run away with the division. That means our Sox are going to continue to hang around and by July 31st, I really doubt we'll be selling off pieces.

I doubt they sell either. KW always has his hat in the ring, and he doesn't concede easily. I just hope Kenny is able to make a key acquisition or two. I don't think the Sox will win as they are, but you add one or two good players to this roster and it could make all the difference. The lack of a power team in our division is the reason for hope.

NLaloosh
06-22-2009, 11:41 AM
Seriously, what if Kenny did nothing ?

What if this team finished in third place with a record of 77-85 and 8 games out of first ? So what?

Next year, an infield of Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, Konerko and A.J. could be great. Nix, Lillibridge, Allen and Flowers and other prospects waiting in the wings.

Next year, an outfield of Quentin, Anderson, Pods and Dye could be great. Jordan Danks waiting. Here is a spot where an upgrade could be made through free agency or a trade.

Rotation for next year- Buehrle, Floyd, Danks and ?? 3 solids (not bad) and Richard ? Poreda ? Contreras? An upgrade could be made here through free agency or trade.

Bullpen 2010 - there could be many changes here. If there are none, the pen is still fine. Maybe, they trade Dotel now or let him walk. Maybe, they trade Jenks or re-sign him. There a lot of good arms in the system now.

I say the future of this team looks pretty darn good as it is. There is no need for an overhaul. The Sox will have some money to spend for sure and they have a nice stock of young talent all the way through the system.

The greatest team needs are one more top level starting pitcher and one more elite outfielder. That's not a lot to ask for with the available budget and trade chips. The Sox should be fine and Sox fans should relax.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2009, 12:00 PM
LaLoosh:

Getz in my opinion would make a good super sub utility infielder starting one maybe two games a week. Konerko, Dye, A.J. will be a year older and a year slower. Pods / BA are not the answer for the long term CF job nor the leadoff position. Lillibridge is a flat out bust as is Fields.

The Sox really need two starting pitchers and if they move Dotel they are going to need another reliable bullpen arm.

Your team for 2010 needs a lot more pieces in my opinion.

Lip

The Immigrant
06-22-2009, 12:32 PM
Your team for 2010 needs a lot more pieces in my opinion.

The Sox can shed some $35 million in payroll this offseason, and that's with the arbitration-related raises to Jenks, Danks and Quentin taken into account. They will be sitting in the catbird seat this offseason in what projects to be another buyers' market. I don't doubt that KW will use that money wisely to fill the holes in CF and SP.

By the way, I think your assessment of Getz is way off. He is an everyday player.

Frater Perdurabo
06-22-2009, 12:33 PM
LaLoosh:

Getz in my opinion would make a good super sub utility infielder starting one maybe two games a week. Konerko, Dye, A.J. will be a year older and a year slower. Pods / BA are not the answer for the long term CF job nor the leadoff position. Lillibridge is a flat out bust as is Fields.

The Sox really need two starting pitchers and if they move Dotel they are going to need another reliable bullpen arm.

Your team for 2010 needs a lot more pieces in my opinion.

Lip

I think Thome and Contreras are gone this winter. 2010 will be Paulie's last year. I think the Sox should pick up Dye's option for 2010. If Pods keeps performing well, hitting above .290 and OBP-ing above .350, he should be re-signed. Next year, I think the Sox should rotate the DH spot among Pods, Quentin, Dye and Paulie, to give each of them a break from the field, with Dye also getting some starts at first base.

The DH rotation would look like this:
Day 1: PK 1B, TCQ LF, Dye RF, Pods DH
Day 2: PK 1B, TCQ RF, Dye DH, Pods LF
Day 3: PK 1B, TCQ DH, Dye RF, Pods LF
Day 4: PK DH, TCQ RF, Dye 1B, Pods LF

Sign Chone Figgins, have him lead off, and rotate among CF, 3B and 2B. With Getz, Beckham and BA, you can use any of these three variants, depending on who is hot or struggling:
Variant 1: Figgins CF, Getz 2B, Beckham 3B, BA bench
Variant 2: Figgins 3B, Getz bench, Beckham 2B, BA CF
Variant 3: Figgins 2B, Getz bench, Beckham 3B, BA CF

BA and Getz essentially platoon in the 9-hole. So then the lineup is:

Figgins, Pods, Quentin, Dye, Paulie, AJ, Alexei, Beckham, BA/Getz

With Thome and Contreras gone, in a buyers market, this provides funds to sign Figgins, and go get the two starting pitchers.

voodoochile
06-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Frater, interesting idea, but I'm wondering if the Nationals could be persuaded to part with Dunn and eat part of his contract. He can backup LF/RF/1B and be the lefty power stick to replace Thome next year.

Your lineup is heavily weighted toward RH power in the middle. They need to find a big LH bat to break that up.

California Sox
06-22-2009, 12:49 PM
By the way, I think your assessment of Getz is way off. He is an everyday player.

For a contender? He's got a .306 OBP with a .340 SLG. Even if he hits for a better average as he gets acclimated, the upside appears to be severely limited. At best, he's a .290 hitter with no walks, no power, steals on guile not speed, and average defense with a suspect throwing arm. The only everyday player he reminds me of is Ozzie Guillen (without as good defense).

It's not that I have anything against Getz. It's just he's a Mickey Morandini/Craig Counsell-type player. Meanwhile, Beckham profiles as an All Star at second. That should be his position.

The Immigrant
06-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I think Thome and Contreras are gone this winter. 2010 will be Paulie's last year. I think the Sox should pick up Dye's option for 2010.

I'm not convinced that picking up Dye's option is the best idea. He would be owed $12 million next year. For that money we could sign someone like Abreu to play a corner OF spot (he's making $5 million this year) and sign a RH reliever to replace Dotel. Abreu would add some speed and balance to the lineup, plus another LH bat.

The Immigrant
06-22-2009, 01:03 PM
It's not that I have anything against Getz. It's just he's a Mickey Morandini/Craig Counsell-type player. Meanwhile, Beckham profiles as an All Star at second. That should be his position.

It all depends on what happens at 3B. If the Sox sign Blalock or Figgins in the offseason I'd be all for moving Beckham to 2B, but I don't see that happening.

tm1119
06-22-2009, 01:17 PM
How do you guys feel about buying low on struggling players? Garret Atkins, Lastings Milledge, Jonathan Sanchez, Ian Snell, Jeff Francoeur, David Murphy just to name a few.
These are guys we could get rather cheap, and hold on to for next year with the chance that they will improve with a change of scenery.

KRS1
06-22-2009, 01:17 PM
. At best, he's a .290 hitter with no walks, no power, steals on guile not speed, and average defense with a suspect throwing arm. .

Perhaps you need to look at his history before you say that. The guy has always been patient at the plate, drawing a very close BB/SO ratio and even now his OBP is almost 60 points higher than his AVG, so I'll just call BS on your evaluation of his best upside. No, he's not going to be a slugging machine, but still very much has the number two hitter upside in him and can easily be the turnover guy with good plate discipline and bat control. I forgot though, there never has been or will be a good every day player in this league without a 400 slg %. I also forgot that a guys first two and a half months in the league always are the best way to judge his upside and capabilities, because ignoring all their other history makes a lot of sense. Our lineup is better off having his type of skills in it, whether it eventually be as a #2 or if he just stays a turnover guy.

bigdommer
06-22-2009, 01:33 PM
I'm not convinced that picking up Dye's option is the best idea. He would be owed $12 million next year. For that money we could sign someone like Abreu to play a corner OF spot (he's making $5 million this year) and sign a RH reliever to replace Dotel. Abreu would add some speed and balance to the lineup, plus another LH bat.

I agree with your theory, but Abreu and some of these other guys who took one-year deals will be looking at multi-year deals in the offseason. So, the bigger question is whether you pay Dye $11 mill for one year (you have to subtract the $1 mill buyout) or you pay Abreu something like $25 mill for 3 years. Personally, under that scenario, I would rather be on the hook for one year of Dye.

GAsoxfan
06-22-2009, 02:47 PM
I agree with your theory, but Abreu and some of these other guys who took one-year deals will be looking at multi-year deals in the offseason. So, the bigger question is whether you pay Dye $11 mill for one year (you have to subtract the $1 mill buyout) or you pay Abreu something like $25 mill for 3 years. Personally, under that scenario, I would rather be on the hook for one year of Dye.

At this point, I don't see a lot of teams throwing around money this off-season. The multi-year deals may not be out there for guys like Abreu and Dye.

bigdommer
06-22-2009, 03:18 PM
At this point, I don't see a lot of teams throwing around money this off-season. The multi-year deals may not be out there for guys like Abreu and Dye.

While I agree that money will not get thrown around like the early 2000's, I think that teams will spend more money this winter than last. Most clubs were caught flatfooted by the global recession, and they now have a full year to evaluate payroll get some money off the books.

Remember, Abreu was asking for 3 years and $48 million last year. If he had looked for 3/30, he would have gotten it easily, as Ibanez and Bradley got that and he is better than both. With the Red Sox and Yanks spending $ on pitching, the Mets burned by Madoff, the Phils and Cubs sigining Ibanez & Bradley, and the Dodgers playing chicken with Manny, there were not many big payroll teams looking to add the likes of Abreu, Dunn, and Burrell. There is a chance all of those teams could be in the market next year for a corner outfielder, which will drive up the 2009 discount prices.

DSpivack
06-22-2009, 03:48 PM
How do you guys feel about buying low on struggling players? Garret Atkins, Lastings Milledge, Jonathan Sanchez, Ian Snell, Jeff Francoeur, David Murphy just to name a few.
These are guys we could get rather cheap, and hold on to for next year with the chance that they will improve with a change of scenery.

They're cheap for a reason: they're not good.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2009, 04:11 PM
Immigrant:

We'll see how it all turns out but keep something in mind before we all assume the Sox are going to be participants in the market next off-season.

You've already had the owner in March come out and tell the beat writers in an interview how "concerned" he is about the expiring advertising deals after this year.

I have no idea what the Sox will do but to assume they are going to be players in the free agent market right now is making an assumption.

It's going to depend on how the rest of this season goes for one thing. If they do poorly, individual ticket sales is going to drop off and if they were to have a second bad season in the last three it's going to be even harder to convince businesses to spend money with them on advertising in a tight market.

I will say this however, there could be a number of guys the Sox could really use starting with Figgins that'll be on the market...of course there were a number of guys the Sox could have used this off season starting with Hudson and Tavares and we saw what happened.

Lip

whitesoxfan
06-22-2009, 04:13 PM
Immigrant:

We'll see how it all turns out but keep something in mind before we all assume the Sox are going to be participants in the market next off-season.

You've already had the owner in March come out and tell the beat writers in an interview how "concerned" he is about the expiring advertising deals after this year.

I have no idea what the Sox will do but to assume they are going to be players in the free agent market right now is making an assumption.

It's going to depend on how the rest of this season goes for one thing. If they do poorly, individual ticket sales is going to drop off and if they were to have a second bad season in the last three it's going to be even harder to convince businesses to spend money with them on advertising in a tight market.

I will say this however, there could be a number of guys the Sox could really use starting with Figgins that'll be on the market...of course there were a number of guys the Sox could have used this off season starting with Hudson and Tavares and we saw what happened.

Lip

Taveras has been atrocious this year, so in that regard we lucked out.

Lip Man 1
06-23-2009, 03:22 AM
You mean like when he got three hits Saturday?

He went through a stretch where he went 1-41 but with his speed and ability to force defenses into mistakes, that's a trait in center that both BA nor Wise possess.

Lip

khan
06-23-2009, 10:50 AM
In 20 games ‘til the ASB, if our SOX can go 12-8, they’ll be 2 games above .500. [v. lad SOX win 1 of 3, v. scrubs SOX win 2 of 3, @ Cle 3 of 4, @ KC 3 of 4, Cle 2 of 3, and @ minn 1 of 3.]

In my mind, a 12-8 run is probably at the high end of what I think this team [as currently comprised] can do.


Having said that, where might this put the SOX by the ASB?

Minnesota has on their schedule [without rainout/makeup games]:
@ Brewers *3 [maybe Minn wins 2 of 3], @ Stl *3 [Minn wins 1 of 3], @ KC *3 [2 of 3], Detroit *3 [2 of 3], NYY *3 [2 of 3], and SOX *3 [2 of 3].

In other words, in their 18 remaining games, maybe they’ll be 11-7, and still be ahead of us by a game.

Detroit has on their schedule [again, without rainout/makeup games]:
Scrubs *3 [I think DET wins 2 of 3], @ Hou *3 [Det wins 2 of 3], @ Oak *3 [2 of 3], @ Min *3 [1 of 3], KC *3 [2 of 3], and Cle *3 [2 of 3].

In their 18 games before the ASB, maybe they’ll be 11-7, and still be ahead of us by 5 games.

IF [and this is a big “if”] the SOX can play at or above their level, the SOX would still need a lot of help to make up ground. That is to say, even at this stage of the season. IF [and there’s the other “if”] the SOX are ever to get into the race, now is the time. They’ve GOT to go on a run in the next stretch of games, and hope for some outside help. The SOX have got to put on a push, and hope that Linebrink isn’t hurt, and that maybe TCQ can recover for a 2nd half push.

IF [and there’s the 3rd “if”] all of this happens, then sure: KW should be a buyer. If all of these things DON’T break the SOX’s way, then maybe its time to move Thome, Dye, Dotel, Colon, and possibly Jenks.

I await the next few weeks with heightened interest, and look hopefully to the prospect of the SOX climbing into the race, so we can be buyers.

areilly
06-23-2009, 10:56 AM
You mean like when he got three hits Saturday?

I think he meant the 24 games this season in which Taveras got zero hits.

Jaysox
06-23-2009, 10:57 AM
In 20 games ‘til the ASB, if our SOX can go 12-8, they’ll be 2 games above .500. [v. lad SOX win 1 of 3, v. scrubs SOX win 2 of 3, @ Cle 3 of 4, @ KC 3 of 4, Cle 2 of 3, and @ minn 1 of 3.]

In my mind, a 12-8 run is probably at the high end of what I think this team [as currently comprised] can do.


Having said that, where might this put the SOX by the ASB?

Minnesota has on their schedule [without rainout/makeup games]:
@ Brewers *3 [maybe Minn wins 2 of 3], @ Stl *3 [Minn wins 1 of 3], @ KC *3 [2 of 3], Detroit *3 [2 of 3], NYY *3 [2 of 3], and SOX *3 [2 of 3].

In other words, in their 18 remaining games, maybe they’ll be 11-7, and still be ahead of us by a game.

Detroit has on their schedule [again, without rainout/makeup games]:
Scrubs *3 [I think DET wins 2 of 3], @ Hou *3 [Det wins 2 of 3], @ Oak *3 [2 of 3], @ Min *3 [1 of 3], KC *3 [2 of 3], and Cle *3 [2 of 3].

In their 18 games before the ASB, maybe they’ll be 11-7, and still be ahead of us by 5 games.

IF [and this is a big “if”] the SOX can play at or above their level, the SOX would still need a lot of help to make up ground. That is to say, even at this stage of the season. IF [and there’s the other “if”] the SOX are ever to get into the race, now is the time. They’ve GOT to go on a run in the next stretch of games, and hope for some outside help. The SOX have got to put on a push, and hope that Linebrink isn’t hurt, and that maybe TCQ can recover for a 2nd half push.

IF [and there’s the 3rd “if”] all of this happens, then sure: KW should be a buyer. If all of these things DON’T break the SOX’s way, then maybe its time to move Thome, Dye, Dotel, Colon, and possibly Jenks.

I await the next few weeks with heightened interest, and look hopefully to the prospect of the SOX climbing into the race, so we can be buyers.

Wow! Great post, I couldn't agree more.

DirtySox
06-23-2009, 10:57 AM
Wait. There is an argument being made for "should have acquired Willy Taveras?" Really?

areilly
06-23-2009, 11:08 AM
Wait. There is an argument being made for "should have acquired Willy Taveras?" Really?

Have you forgotten? Willy T. had three hits in a 10-8 nailbiter last Saturday against the 2009 World Series champions.

Three!

PalehosePlanet
06-23-2009, 11:36 AM
I think he meant the 24 games this season in which Taveras got zero hits.

Hahahaha!!

Yeah, maybe he meant the Taveras who was on a 2 for 51 tear going into Saturday?

DirtySox
06-23-2009, 11:45 AM
Tavares

I think the Islanders get first crack at him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/DertyFoot/Tavares.jpg

Lip Man 1
06-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Reilly:

If you think Wise and BA are better options than I seriously have to question your baseball judgment. He's also got 14 stolen bases and has been thrown out only 3 times. How many times has BA been nailed?

And you're missing the bigger point which was replying to the person who made his case for 2010 and assuming the Sox would be active players in the off season market.

There are no guarantees based on this past off season and comments from ownership.

Lip

areilly
06-23-2009, 12:46 PM
If you think Wise and BA are better options than I seriously have to question your baseball judgment. He's also got 14 stolen bases and has been thrown out only 3 times. How many times has BA been nailed?

I don't think Wise and BA are better options, I think they're equally lame options. That said, what good are stolen bases when you have a .274 season OBP and .325 career OBP?

bigdommer
06-23-2009, 12:52 PM
I would rather let Pods play center than let Taveras do anything besides pinch run.

voodoochile
06-23-2009, 12:56 PM
I would rather let Pods play center than let Taveras do anything besides pinch run.

Get well soon, TCQ, though at least BA has been hitting well recently so things aren't that bad.

Lip Man 1
06-23-2009, 12:58 PM
Reilly:

When it's better then the two guys the Sox thought were going to do the job, then as bad as it may be, it's still better isn't it?

Remember Pods wasn't even part of the equation when this past off season took place.

The Sox first option was (shudder) Owens...then when that fell flat they turned to Wise, hitting even worse than Taveras.

BA to me should be a 4th outfielder. Start maybe a game a week and appear in every game as a defensively substitution whenever the Sox take a lead into the 7th inning or later, that's it.

What I think we both agree is that this center field and (or) lead off situation has festered far to long and needs to be solved. Period.

Lip

delben91
06-23-2009, 01:15 PM
Reilly:

When it's better then the two guys the Sox thought were going to do the job, then as bad as it may be, it's still better isn't it?

Remember Pods wasn't even part of the equation when this past off season took place.

The Sox first option was (shudder) Owens...then when that fell flat they turned to Wise, hitting even worse than Taveras.

BA to me should be a 4th outfielder. Start maybe a game a week and appear in every game as a defensively substitution whenever the Sox take a lead into the 7th inning or later, that's it.

What I think we both agree is that this center field and (or) lead off situation has festered far to long and needs to be solved. Period.

Lip

If the Sox acquired Taveras and he flopped, would you consider it "solved" ?

Lip Man 1
06-23-2009, 03:43 PM
Delben:

Can't answer that question since they didn't (or Crisp for that matter) what I do know is what I see in the hear and now and this has been an issue since the start of the 2006 season.

Lip

Tragg
06-23-2009, 06:47 PM
Reilly:

If you think Wise and BA are better options than I seriously have to question your baseball judgment. He's also got 14 stolen bases and has been thrown out only 3 times. How many times has BA been nailed?

Lip
Taveras doesn't get on base enough. His OBP is terrible.
But as a player to acquire, no way... he's not a plus offensive player.
We need to get players on base and knock them in. The Cell largely dictates that.

khan
06-26-2009, 12:07 PM
In 20 games ‘til the ASB, if our SOX can go 12-8, they’ll be 2 games above .500. [v. lad SOX win 1 of 3, v. scrubs SOX win 2 of 3, @ Cle 3 of 4, @ KC 3 of 4, Cle 2 of 3, and @ minn 1 of 3.]

Minnesota has on their schedule [without rainout/makeup games]:
@ Brewers *3 [maybe Minn wins 2 of 3], @ Stl *3 [Minn wins 1 of 3], @ KC *3 [2 of 3], Detroit *3 [2 of 3], NYY *3 [2 of 3], and SOX *3 [2 of 3].

Detroit has on their schedule [again, without rainout/makeup games]:
Scrubs *3 [I think DET wins 2 of 3], @ Hou *3 [Det wins 2 of 3], @ Oak *3 [2 of 3], @ Min *3 [1 of 3], KC *3 [2 of 3], and Cle *3 [2 of 3].


IF [and this is a big “if”] the SOX can play at or above their level, the SOX would still need a lot of help to make up ground. That is to say, even at this stage of the season. IF [and there’s the other “if”] the SOX are ever to get into the race, now is the time. They’ve GOT to go on a run in the next stretch of games, and hope for some outside help. The SOX have got to put on a push, and hope that Linebrink isn’t hurt, and that maybe TCQ can recover for the 2nd half.
Checking back on my previous post, our SOX have surpassed my expectations vs. LAD, going 2-1 instead of 1-2.

Minnesota went 2-1 v. Milwaukee, as one might anticipate.

Unfortunately, the scrubs didn’t hold up their end of the bargain, giving up a 3 game sweep in their series v. Detroit.

Going into this weekend, I fully expect our SOX to continue the treasured White Sox Tradition of making “pitchers they’ve never seen before” look like Cy Young. I’m looking for the scrubs’ Randy Wells to go 8 IP, with something like 10 Ks, 1 BB, and maybe 2 or 3 hits today. On Saturday and Sunday, I think the SOX will be fine against Zambrano and Dempster.

But really, when all is said and done, whether the SOX perform at or above their level is immaterial. Look at the standings after the series v. LAD: Still 1 GB of Minn, and now 6 GB of DET. The SOX desperately need outside help, in the form of unexpected losing streaks by Detroit and Minnesota. Otherwise, I maintain that it may be time to start moving pieces/salaries/veterans off the roster.

OTOH, if the SOX do get the gifts of Detroit and Minnesota crapping their pants in their next few series, then by all means KW should buy a few pieces. In either case, decision time is coming SOON, if it hasn’t happened already, IMO.

khan
06-29-2009, 09:35 AM
In 20 games ‘til the ASB, if our SOX can go 12-8, they’ll be 2 games above .500. [v. lad SOX win 1 of 3, v. scrubs SOX win 2 of 3, @ Cle 3 of 4, @ KC 3 of 4, Cle 2 of 3, and @ minn 1 of 3.]

Minnesota has on their schedule [without rainout/makeup games]:
@ Brewers *3 [maybe Minn wins 2 of 3], @ Stl *3 [Minn wins 1 of 3], @ KC *3 [2 of 3], Detroit *3 [2 of 3], NYY *3 [2 of 3], and SOX *3 [2 of 3].

Detroit has on their schedule [again, without rainout/makeup games]:
Scrubs *3 [I think DET wins 2 of 3], @ Hou *3 [Det wins 2 of 3], @ Oak *3 [2 of 3], @ Min *3 [1 of 3], KC *3 [2 of 3], and Cle *3 [2 of 3].Checking in again:
Our SOX have exceeded what I thought they'd do by a game, winning 2 of 3 in the series v. LAD and the scrubs.

minn has won 2 of 3 @ Stl, thereby staying a game ahead of our SOX.

det has won only 1 of 3 @ Hou, which makes our SOX all of 5 GB of 1st place.

voodoochile
06-29-2009, 10:32 AM
Well that's enough bumping to quote your own posts and reply to them I think...