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View Full Version : Hawk Harrelson Love Him or Leave Him Catch All Thread


hawkjt
06-14-2009, 05:37 PM
he read that Black Jack Blog about Beckham from like a week ago, thought it was today and took it the wrong way. Said jack won't be subbing for Stone pony when steve needs a day off.


He actually said that Jack is off the list for substituting? I did not hear that...kind of harsh.

Zisk77
06-14-2009, 06:17 PM
He actually said that Jack is off the list for substituting? I did not hear that...kind of harsh.


Yep, right as they came back on the air the next inning. He said, "steve, when are you taking time off again" and before Stone could say anything, Hawk said I know Mcdowell won't be taking your place.

Boondock Saint
06-14-2009, 06:23 PM
Yep, right as they came back on the air the next inning. He said, "steve, when are you taking time off again" and before Stone could say anything, Hawk said I know Mcdowell won't be taking your place.

I'd rather have Black Jack in the booth than Hawk.

UChicagoHP
06-14-2009, 06:59 PM
I'd rather have Black Jack in the booth than Hawk.

It will be funny when Black Jack takes Hawk's job...

DirtySox
06-14-2009, 07:23 PM
It will be funny when Black Jack takes Hawk's job...

I am fully in support of such a move.

chisoxfanatic
06-14-2009, 07:25 PM
It will be funny when Black Jack takes Hawk's job...
I am fully in support of such a move.
The first day where Hawk is not employed by the Sox calling games will be an empty day for me. Hawk Harrelson is my 2nd favorite sports broadcaster ever behind Pat Foley.

rowand33
06-14-2009, 07:34 PM
The first day where Hawk is not employed by the Sox calling games will be an empty day for me. Hawk Harrelson is my 2nd favorite sports broadcaster ever behind Pat Foley.


I love Hawk. Hawk screaming "Yes! Yes! Hell Yes!" today was fantastic, and one of my highlights for the season.

I can understand how non-Sox fans can hate Hawk, but it's unbelievable to me that there are Sox fans that don't like him.

BigP50
06-14-2009, 07:36 PM
I post on the Scout.com White Sox message Boards and they HATE Hawk with a passion. But I 100% support Hawk

Shoeless
06-14-2009, 07:38 PM
I love Hawk. Hawk screaming "Yes! Yes! Hell Yes!" today was fantastic, and one of my highlights for the season.

I can understand how non-Sox fans can hate Hawk, but it's unbelievable to me that there are Sox fans that don't like him.

Like him or not, no one can deny Hawk lives and dies with the White Sox, which is really refreshing in a really bad stretch. He loves the team as much as anyone here.

chisoxfanatic
06-14-2009, 07:38 PM
Like him or not, no one can deny Hawk lives and dies with the White Sox, which is really refreshing in a really bad stretch. He loves the team as much as anyone here.
That's what I love about him the most...his passion and how he really relates to the fan.

DirtySox
06-14-2009, 07:42 PM
I love Hawk. Hawk screaming "Yes! Yes! Hell Yes!" today was fantastic, and one of my highlights for the season.

I can understand how non-Sox fans can hate Hawk, but it's unbelievable to me that there are Sox fans that don't like him.

Hawk can be amusing every now and then, but is widely considered one of the worst announcers in all of sports. He is a joke. Tired cliches/catch phrases, grossly overt homerism, ridiculous and unprofessional rants, his senile multiple inning stories/references. Blech. No thanks.

BigP50
06-14-2009, 07:45 PM
Id rather him show passion for the game then be just another boring announcer

chisoxfanatic
06-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Id rather him show passion for the game then be just another boring announcer
Agreed. Almost every other announcer that I have heard is really really boring. Hawk is one of the only announcers with any character!

rowand33
06-14-2009, 07:50 PM
That's what I love about him the most...his passion and how he really relates to the fan.

Exactly. Hawk's like a buddy on your couch watching the game with you.

He gets pissed at the umps right with you, he gets excited when the team wins.

Over the top homerism at its finest.

rowand33
06-14-2009, 07:51 PM
Hawk can be amusing every now and then, but is widely considered one of the worst announcers in all of sports. He is a joke. Tired cliches/catch phrases, grossly overt homerism, ridiculous and unprofessional rants, his senile multiple inning stories/references. Blech. No thanks.

These are all the things I love about him.

DirtySox
06-14-2009, 07:52 PM
Agreed. Almost every other announcer that I have heard is really really boring. Hawk is one of the only announcers with any character!

I won't argue that. He certainly possesses that quality, but there are plenty of announcers who are passionate about the game and are much more insightful and even-keeled. I suppose I prefer my announcers a little less over the top. I'm quite a fan of Steve Stone though.

WhiteSox1989
06-14-2009, 07:55 PM
The first day where Hawk is not employed by the Sox calling games will be an empty day for me. Hawk Harrelson is my 2nd favorite sports broadcaster ever behind Pat Foley.
I 100% agree. Sox games will be so weird without him.

soltrain21
06-14-2009, 07:57 PM
Exactly. Hawk's like a buddy on your couch watching the game with you.

He gets pissed at the umps right with you, he gets excited when the team wins.

Over the top homerism at its finest.


No, Hawk is like one of my annoying friends who blames everything but the team and will never say anything bad about the team.

He sounds like an annoying Cubs fan most of you all hate.

Rohan
06-14-2009, 07:59 PM
Exactly. Hawk's like a buddy on your couch watching the game with you.

He gets pissed at the umps right with you, he gets excited when the team wins.

Over the top homerism at its finest.

I've never heard a better description. I can just picture a midget size Hawk sitting beside me on the couch, his feet dangling off the side of the couch. His massive head on a miniature body.

Turning red with anger as he screams at terribad calls, and twenty minutes later jumping up and down on the couch hollering "YEEEEUS!" as the White Sox turn the game around.

Lip Man 1
06-14-2009, 08:00 PM
What I'm interesting is in finding out if Hawk has that type of power to pick who he works with.

My impression is that the final decisions in this area belongs to the Director of Broadcast Operations, Bob Grim with input from Brooks Boyer.

Lip

DirtySox
06-14-2009, 08:01 PM
No, Hawk is like one of my annoying friends who blames everything but the team and will never say anything bad about the team.

He sounds like an annoying Cubs fan most of you all hate.

Pretty much. I was trying to be somewhat diplomatic in my criticism though. :wink: I have enough loud, idiotic, blowhard friends to watch the game with. I don't need one narrating as well.

Rohan
06-14-2009, 08:01 PM
What I'm interesting is in finding out if Hawk has that type of power to pick who he works with.

My impression is that the final decisions in this area belongs to the Director of Broadcast Operations, Bob Grim with input from Brooks Boyer.

Lip

He does seem to have quite a bit of seniority. He's also a fan favorite.

DonnieDarko
06-14-2009, 08:07 PM
Honestly, I think that Hawk is a total homer and is drunk half the time he's in the booth. As far as baseball acumen goes, I think that Steve Stone beats him by a looooooooong mile.

That said, I still love Hawk as an announcer. When he eventually passes, he certainly won't have the same effect on the city as Carry did (comparing the two, IMHO, just isn't possible--they're not even in the same league of greatness), but it'll definitely be a sad, sad moment. That makes me think. Who will take over for Hawk in the booth? I mean, I'm pretty sure that Stone will, but who will take over color commentary? Chris Rongey? I remember him saying that he's always wanted to be in the booth, but I don't know how he and Stone mesh or how well they personally get along.

chisoxfanatic
06-14-2009, 08:08 PM
Over the top homerism at its finest.
And that's why so many fans of other teams hate him. The thing is, he isn't a MLB announcer...he is a WHITE SOX announcer calling the game for WHITE SOX fans. He doesn't have to be impartial like the guys on FOX or ESPN SHOULD be.

whtsox13
06-14-2009, 08:18 PM
Honestly, I think that Hawk is a total homer and is drunk half the time he's in the booth. As far as baseball acumen goes, I think that Steve Stone beats him by a looooooooong mile.


That said, I still love Hawk as an announcer. When he eventually passes, he certainly won't have the same effect on the city as Carry did (comparing the two, IMHO, just isn't possible--they're not even in the same league of greatness), but it'll definitely be a sad, sad moment. That makes me think. Who will take over for Hawk in the booth? I mean, I'm pretty sure that Stone will, but who will take over color commentary? Chris Rongey? I remember him saying that he's always wanted to be in the booth, but I don't know how he and Stone mesh or how well they personally get along.


Please not Rongey. He is overly negative. There are days that if you just turned into the post game you would never know the Sox won. He's negative when they lose and just as negative when they win.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Does anyone think that when Hawk retires, Dave Wills would come to the Sox to take the TV PBP job? (Isn't TV generally seen as a "promotion" from radio?)

Brian26
06-14-2009, 08:39 PM
Like him or not, no one can deny Hawk lives and dies with the White Sox, which is really refreshing in a really bad stretch. He loves the team as much as anyone here.

A year or two of a carpet-bagger like Gary Thorne or DeWayne Staats in the booth would change a lot of people's uninformed opinions about Harrelson pretty quickly.

Hawk rules.

Brian26
06-14-2009, 08:44 PM
Hawk can be amusing every now and then, but is widely considered one of the worst announcers in all of sports. He is a joke. Tired cliches/catch phrases, grossly overt homerism, ridiculous and unprofessional rants, his senile multiple inning stories/references. Blech. No thanks.

We all have our opinions about Hawk. I tend to enjoy him compared to a majority of the bland carpet-bagging, generic announcers around MLB.

All that said, let's not throw the word "senile" around. Hawk is far from "senile".

Whappeh
06-14-2009, 08:45 PM
A year or two of a carpet-bagger like Gary Thorne or DeWayne Staats in the booth would change a lot of people's uninformed opinions about Harrelson pretty quickly.

Hawk rules.

That is the truth, DeWayne Staats makes me want to do bad things, and not in a good way. The Phillies announcers are the current worst, in my opinion. You guys think Hawk wanders, they went 1 full inning with out making any mention of the baseball game they were supposed to be calling. Dead silence for 2 full outs, and they talked about something going on in Philadelphia that weekend for the rest of the time. Hawk is amazing, and as a relatively new fan, and new to baseball, to me he was one of the attractions of the White Sox that made the team fun to me when I was first getting into the sport.

Brian26
06-14-2009, 08:46 PM
What I'm interesting is in finding out if Hawk has that type of power to pick who he works with.

My impression is that the final decisions in this area belongs to the Director of Broadcast Operations, Bob Grim with input from Brooks Boyer.

Lip

You think Brooks Boyer, who's been with the organization since 2004, is going to have final say over Harrelson, who's been with JR since 1982?

Brian26
06-14-2009, 08:50 PM
The Postgame Thread is wandering a bit, so I'm going to open this up.

Shoeless
06-14-2009, 08:51 PM
A year or two of a carpet-bagger like Gary Thorne or DeWayne Staats in the booth would change a lot of people's uninformed opinions about Harrelson pretty quickly.

Hawk rules.

How about DeWayne Wise?

soltrain21
06-14-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm convinced the stories he tells are about fifty percent true. Maybe.

DonnieDarko
06-14-2009, 08:56 PM
The Postgame Thread is wandering a bit, so I'm going to open this up.

Yeah, sorry, that was my fault. >_> It was an honest question, though...

Shoeless
06-14-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm convinced the stories he tells are about fifty percent true. Maybe.

That's all part of the game! I'm too young to really know the difference, particularly what happened thirty years ago. All these vague references I don't completely understand, but still he loves the White Sox, and that's what matters.

Also, I really want to put a list together of the "All Hawk Team". Hawk says "The Best I've Ever Seen" all the time.

Brian26
06-14-2009, 08:57 PM
Yeah, sorry, that was my fault. >_> It was an honest question, though...

No worries. I just noticed that over 50% of the posts in the postgame thread were talking about Hawk. It's a bit of work trying to separate the discussions, but I think we have it now...

Taliesinrk
06-14-2009, 08:58 PM
How about DeWayne Wise?

BA should definitely go in the booth before Wise. The only reason Wise would get in over Anderson is if Ozzie is the one making the broadcast decisions.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2009, 08:58 PM
You think Brooks Boyer, who's been with the organization since 2004, is going to have final say over Harrelson, who's been with JR since 1982?

Excellent point disguised in the form of a question. Spot on.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-14-2009, 08:58 PM
I like Hawk, but he does get stale at times. I think he's done next year. He will have been involved with MLB for seven decades. He's alluded to it a few times. Hawk's been around so long almost everyone has a Hawk imitation. All of mine have somehow incorporate aa Yaz reference, regardless of how improbable.

chisoxfanatic
06-14-2009, 09:02 PM
Also, I really want to put a list together of the "All Hawk Team". Hawk says "The Best I've Ever Seen" all the time.
Here would be that All Hawk Team:
1. Carlos Gomez
2. Carlos Gomez
3. Carlos Gomez
4. Carlos Gomez
5. Carlos Gomez
6. Carlos Gomez
7. Carlos Gomez
8. Carlos Gomez
9. Carlos Gomez
P. Carlos Gomez

I'd rather have a list of every Hawkism.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2009, 09:08 PM
I find Hawk entertaining, but I also hope he retires before he becomes a complete caricature of himself, like Harry Caray did in his last years with the Cubs.

Demps2
06-14-2009, 09:09 PM
while I don't think Hawk is one of the worst announcers in all of sports his homerism is obnoxious. He needs to get a grip on reality that this is not a good team, and all of his excitement today was ridiculous. We had won our first series in two weeks, Hawk needs to calm down and get a reality check.

pmck003
06-14-2009, 09:11 PM
And that's why so many fans of other teams hate him. The thing is, he isn't a MLB announcer...he is a WHITE SOX announcer calling the game for WHITE SOX fans. He doesn't have to be impartial like the guys on FOX or ESPN SHOULD be.

I agree - even Vin Scully would be less entertaining for me though I suppose I would rather listen to Scully do a Dodger game than Hawk (I've only listened to Scully a few times). I enjoy listening to a little local character - I think its Bert Blyleven that does the Twins and he is similar to the Hawk in his homerism.

PhillipsBubba
06-14-2009, 09:17 PM
I've never been a big fan of KH.

I prefer he shut up and let Stone talk more as Stone is much more insightful.

I guess in Harrelson's world, the Sox are above fair criticism. I find nothing wrong with McDowell's comments

Boondock Saint
06-14-2009, 09:30 PM
I like Hawk, but not when he's whining about not getting calls, moping when the Sox are playing poorly, or blatantly kissing ass.

balke
06-14-2009, 09:35 PM
Sorry Mcdowell called it like he saw it. Fields' D isn't there. Betemit's more importantly wasn't there. And if you are bold enough to call Beckham up, you should play him. Because defensively, he's your best option, and Fields isn't hitting... and really never had a high batting average.

This is only fair for Buehrle and the rest of the pitching staff that is used to being supported defensively.

kevingrt
06-14-2009, 09:44 PM
I like Hawk, but not when he's whining about not getting calls, moping when the Sox are playing poorly, or blatantly kissing ass.

Same here. Besides really those three circumstances I really enjoy listening to Hawk. But he digresses on those three topics way too often and it is somewhat annoying at times.

LongLiveFisk
06-14-2009, 09:57 PM
The first day where Hawk is not employed by the Sox calling games will be an empty day for me.

I totally agree. No matter the criticisms (and granted, some are warranted because nobody is perfect), you'd be hard-pressed to find another announcer who really loves the White Sox the way Hawk does. I think the day he is replaced by a typical, monotone cookie-cutter announcer is the day a lot of people will realize how much fun it actually was to have him calling White Sox games. Don't know what you got 'til it's gone.

Lip Man 1
06-14-2009, 09:59 PM
Brian:

Bob Grim has been with the organization almost as long as Hawk, 1990 I think he told me in his interview and in fact he is in charge of the broadcasting end of things.

JR put him there for a reason.

Lip

Bobby Thigpen
06-14-2009, 10:00 PM
I totally agree. No matter the criticisms (and granted, some are warranted because nobody is perfect), you'd be hard-pressed to find another announcer who really loves the White Sox the way Hawk does. I think the day he is replaced by a typical, monotone cookie-cutter announcer is the day a lot of people will realize how much fun it actually was to have him calling White Sox games. Don't know what you got 'til it's gone.
Totally agree with those sentiments.

Yes, Hawk's predictable. In fact, I could probably do the broadcast for him and it would sound 75% the same as if he did it. But that's what I like about him. He is summer and White Sox baseball to me. Without him it would be like watching a different team. And probably a lot less entertaining.

It will be a sad day when I'm no longer ordered to sit back, relax and strap it down.:whiner:

Bobby Thigpen
06-14-2009, 10:04 PM
I'm convinced the stories he tells are about fifty percent true. Maybe.
I'm convinced, after reading most of your recent posts, that there is nothing about the White Sox you actually like.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2009, 10:06 PM
It will be a sad day when I'm no longer ordered to sit back, relax and strap it down.:whiner:

Yes, but I'll always get a chuckle when I remember when DJ said, "You can strap it up and strap it down, just make sure you don't strap it on." Combined with the ten seconds of uncomfortable silence that followed, it was perhaps the funniest 15 seconds of TV I've ever heard.

:rolling:

DonnieDarko
06-14-2009, 10:14 PM
Yes, but I'll always get a chuckle when I remember when DJ said, "You can strap it up and strap it down, just make sure you don't strap it on." Combined with the ten seconds of uncomfortable silence that followed, it was perhaps the funniest 15 seconds of TV I've ever heard.

:rolling:

...Oh. My. God. When the hell was that? XD

soltrain21
06-14-2009, 10:25 PM
...Oh. My. God. When the hell was that? XD

2004 or 2005. Somewhere around that area.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2009, 10:32 PM
...Oh. My. God. When the hell was that? XD

Based on a quick search that turned up this post and thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=765721&highlight=strap+it+on+jackson#post765721), I believe DJ said this during a Saturday WGN telecast, likely during the 7/10/05 loss to the A's (http://www.mlb.com/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20050709&content_id=1123104&vkey=wrapup2004&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) (I wouldn't have heard it if it wasn't on WGN). This thread also specifically discusses the comment (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54051&highlight=strap+it+on+jackson).

october23sp
06-14-2009, 10:39 PM
I love Hawk. Whether we like it or not, he is a part of the Sox identity. My friends hate him. Twins, Tigers, and Indians fans, go figure, say he is just plain annoying and a homer. I LOVE Hawk, just clarifying the matter. Kids on my baseball team were saying "He gone" at practice one time and they had no idea it was from Hawk.

soltrain21
06-14-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm convinced, after reading most of your recent posts, that there is nothing about the White Sox you actually like.

Ok, buddy.

pilotsox
06-14-2009, 10:49 PM
while I don't think Hawk is one of the worst announcers in all of sports his homerism is obnoxious. He needs to get a grip on reality that this is not a good team, and all of his excitement today was ridiculous. We had won our first series in two weeks, Hawk needs to calm down and get a reality check.

Many of Hawk's supporters, myself included, state that they support him because he is as much a fan of this team as the rest of us. And today, the Sox won a damn exciting ballgame in awesome fashion. Hawk was celebrating that, as we all should. It'd be one thing if he started acting like this win makes us destined for the playoffs, but he didn't do anything of the sort. What he did today was a totally appropriate celebration of one sweet game, so don't fault him for that.

And like someone else said, Hawk is the White Sox announcer. He works for us. Leave the neutrality to guys like Buck and Berman (in theory, at least), but Hawk should certainly be a homer for his team.

pilotsox
06-14-2009, 10:50 PM
I love Hawk. Whether we like it or not, he is a part of the Sox identity. My friends hate him. Twins, Tigers, and Indians fans, go figure, say he is just plain annoying and a homer. I LOVE Hawk, just clarifying the matter. Kids on my baseball team were saying "He gone" at practice one time and they had no idea it was from Hawk.

That makes me like him even more.

wassagstdu
06-14-2009, 11:02 PM
I don't like to watch a Sox game with anyone but Hawk. That's what I like about MLB.TV, I can always get the Sox feed. And Stone is the most insightful, informative announcer I have seen. I had not heard him much on the radio. Great duo, though I like DJ too. Hawk is great fun when the Sox are going well and when they are struggling he shares your misery.

I just could not bear to listen to Harry Caray when he was broadcasting for the Sox. He was beyond bad. I heard him some broadcasting for the Cardinals when I was in Champaign and at that time he was the best. Got stale in Chicago. Perfect for the Cubs, though.

Lip Man 1
06-14-2009, 11:33 PM
Wassag:

We'll have to disagree. Harry and Jimmy Piersall were the sharpest, most candid, insightful baseball commentary I've ever heard anywhere at anytime.

They were funny, they were caustic, they knew the game and were able to explain the samll details that often meant the difference between winning and losing.

Lip

aryzner
06-15-2009, 12:01 AM
I love Hawk. I've grown up listening to Hawk. My earliest memories of White Sox baseball are of Hawk and Wimpy. So count me in as someone who loves Hawk and will be sad when the time comes for his last Sox broadcast.

Redus Redux
06-15-2009, 12:07 AM
I love Hawk. Hawk screaming "Yes! Yes! Hell Yes!" today was fantastic, and one of my highlights for the season.

I can understand how non-Sox fans can hate Hawk, but it's unbelievable to me that there are Sox fans that don't like him.


This post.

What seems to be said here is that it's actually impossible to have an objective analysis on Hawk and how he performs his job...

voodoochile
06-15-2009, 12:39 AM
I know that my take on things (being HOH) is different. I don't watch games to listen/read what the announcer says. I use the info given me when I need it, but mostly I just watch. I did listen to Hawk for many years and never found him either particularly annoying or amazing. I do think some of the comments I'm seeing this year with Stone in the booth are excellent. I'm actually learning a bit at times and find the anecdotes and insight to be better than in years past with two older more experienced announcers/players in the booth. I also think it gives Hawk room to be the homer he wants/needs to be but prevents it from becoming a tribute to Hawk as it has been in years past at times.

I'd rather have a homer for an announcer anyway. I want a guy who wants the same things I want even if he is a mouthpiece for the owner...

Ron Karkovice
06-15-2009, 01:06 AM
Before I opened this thread, I was expecting to find the majority being Hawk-haters. It is nice to see that at least 8 out of 10 die hard fans are in favor of Hawk.

I'm with voodoochile. I like having a homer for an announcer... Also, like others have mentioned, it truly wouldnt be the same the year I didnt hear Hawk's voice announcing Sox games.

whitesoxfan
06-15-2009, 01:45 AM
I love Hawk. I've grown up listening to Hawk. My earliest memories of White Sox baseball are of Hawk and Wimpy. So count me in as someone who loves Hawk and will be sad when the time comes for his last Sox broadcast.

Same here..I love the guy. As annoying as some of his complaining is and how he goes silent when things aren't going well, he makes things interesting and a game is never boring when he's calling it. I'm hopeful he sticks around until he passes.

JB98
06-15-2009, 02:17 AM
Sorry Mcdowell called it like he saw it. Fields' D isn't there. Betemit's more importantly wasn't there. And if you are bold enough to call Beckham up, you should play him. Because defensively, he's your best option, and Fields isn't hitting... and really never had a high batting average.

This is only fair for Buehrle and the rest of the pitching staff that is used to being supported defensively.

Beckham is playing every day. Why do people keep suggesting that he is not? I watch the Sox every damn day, and I keep seeing Beckham at third base. Am I imagining things?

McDowell is a good baseball man, but his blog post about Beckham was just not correct. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Hawk, but he was on the mark in his remarks about the McDowell blog post.

PeteWard
06-15-2009, 08:33 AM
A Sox fan since 1964, I say Harrelson--along with several ESPN cretins in all sports , Buck, McCarver and Dick Vitale and some historical disasters like Brickhouse and Milo -- I say he represents the the absolute nadir of sports broadcasting. He is a braying jackass, full of that sickening brand of southern good ol' boy macho posturing horse**** that makes me thank god for General Bill Sherman. I can't stand Harrelson!

He is much more than just a homer. Harry and Jimmy were homers and I loved them because they actually had EYES and knew when to criticize lack of hustle and lousy fundamentals and actually commented on it when the Sox caught a break from the umps. Imagine that! Has any ump ever made a bad call in favor of the Sox since 1982? Not if you listen to this clown.

The day they put Harrelson and Drysdale--a dull, self-serving phony himself-- in the booth was a black day in Sox history. It is embarrassing that the former is still around.

PeteWard
06-15-2009, 08:35 AM
Wassag:

We'll have to disagree. Harry and Jimmy Piersall were the sharpest, most candid, insightful baseball commentary I've ever heard anywhere at anytime.

They were funny, they were caustic, they knew the game and were able to explain the samll details that often meant the difference between winning and losing.

Lip

No one was close to these two.

angiew
06-15-2009, 09:05 AM
My husband and I love Hawk. Sure he can grate on your nerves, but we usually just make fun of him and go on. His "hell yes" yesterday only mimicked my own.:redneck When we can't get the Sox feed and have to listen to the other crap announcers it only makes us appreciate him more.

balke
06-15-2009, 09:07 AM
Beckham is playing every day. Why do people keep suggesting that he is not? I watch the Sox every damn day, and I keep seeing Beckham at third base. Am I imagining things?

McDowell is a good baseball man, but his blog post about Beckham was just not correct. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Hawk, but he was on the mark in his remarks about the McDowell blog post.

This is true. He jumped the gun in and made it seem like he wasn't playing. But, this was preemptive to him not hitting and being pulled because of it. This was probably assumed due to Ozzie's attitude about "bacon" in the media, where he seemed to be writing him off without letting him play more than a handful of games. McDowell is also right when he says Fields is likely not the long term answer at 3B. Defensively he's got a lot of work to do, and doesn't seem to have the instincts that could get him there. 1B I could see, he's gotta work on his bat though. I haven't given up on him completely, but Beckham is clearly better defensively, and if he's up here he might as well be the everyday 3Bman. Josh will still get playing time, and could win his job back if he hits and the Sox can find a defensive utility man at the deadline.



I like McDowell's announcing, so hopefully Hawk is wrong or they can patch things up. It would even be good radio if they aired this out during a broadcast maybe.

tstrike2000
06-15-2009, 09:15 AM
The first day where Hawk is not employed by the Sox calling games will be an empty day for me. Hawk Harrelson is my 2nd favorite sports broadcaster ever behind Pat Foley.

Pat Foley is just flat out awesome and the Blackhawks were fortunate he came back. And I agree with you also about Hawk. Because I've basically grown up listening to Hawk (after Harry jetted to the dump up north) I'll miss hearing him the day he's not around. For all his flaws in the booth, I'd miss his Hawkisms and his overall loyalty to the Sox.

MarySwiss
06-15-2009, 09:27 AM
Before I opened this thread, I was expecting to find the majority being Hawk-haters. It is nice to see that at least 8 out of 10 die hard fans are in favor of Hawk.

I'm with voodoochile. I like having a homer for an announcer... Also, like others have mentioned, it truly wouldnt be the same the year I didnt hear Hawk's voice announcing Sox games.

Second this.

I admit I get a bit annoyed when he gushes on and on about some other team's player, but not nearly as annoyed as I get when I have to listen to ESPN's, Fox's, or another team's broadcasters.

Also, I wasn't sure how well Hawk and Steve would work together, but I enjoy the collaboration even though I also liked DJ.

It'll be a sad day when he leaves.

ChiSoxFan81
06-15-2009, 10:19 AM
I love me some Hawk. I grew up with the guy on TV, and although he is a huge homer, his nostalgic stories don't always add up, and he sometimes lets his emotions cloud his logic (e.g. 'dadgum right we're playing this game under protest!'), he's entertaining. His nicknames and various phrases have become well-known, and he's just a unique personality. I could do without all the Twins love, but I can deal with it. I just hope he's still around when my kids are old enough to remember him. It won't be the same when 'he gone'.

hawkjt
06-15-2009, 10:19 AM
He actually said that Jack is off the list for substituting? I did not hear that...kind of harsh.

For the record, I did not open this thread..no big deal but just want it clear that while I think Hawk was a bit tough on Blackjack, I do still enjoy Hawk and do not look forward to the inevitable day that he leaves the booth.

I like a homer like Hawk in the booth for my team. And I shared his enthusiasm for yesterdays win...it seemed bigger than normal to me also. A tiny bit of Bear-Packer rivalry, plus remembering the old days between Brewcrew/Sox rivalry.

jdm2662
06-15-2009, 10:21 AM
I will fully admit that with Stone in the booth, Hawk is more tollerable then he was. However, while I found him cool when I was 13, I grew tired of his act many years ago. The day he goes away will be a great day for me.

ewokpelts
06-15-2009, 10:26 AM
Kinda low class for Hawk to do this.
McDowell post on a low traffic tribune blog site. It's not like this was a story for yahoo sports (his previous writing gig) or he went on tv or the radio and said this.

asindc
06-15-2009, 10:30 AM
Hawk can be amusing every now and then, but is widely considered one of the worst announcers in all of sports. He is a joke. Tired cliches/catch phrases, grossly overt homerism, ridiculous and unprofessional rants, his senile multiple inning stories/references. Blech. No thanks.

Can someone please explain to me how it is an issue when a local broadcaster exhibits a rooting interest in the team he announces for? (For those who are wondering, there is nothing remotely rhetorical about this question.)

I can see the disdain for someone like Berman who has a difficult time hiding his Boston enthusiasm on a national ESPN broadcast, but on a local broadcast? Really, what is the problem?

Dan H
06-15-2009, 10:33 AM
Hawk should stop saying "stretch" for balls caught on the warning track. And he overreacts to the criticism of the organization. Not everyone will agree with Jerry Reinsdorf, Ken Williams and Hawk himself. Criticism is not always a sign of disloyalty or a personal attack.

The umps have it coming to them sometimes but it is also easy to call a game with a slow motion replay. I was pissed about Wise getting called out depriving the Sox of a dramatic win. But dwelling on it does no good and by the next day I was ready to move on. Sometimes it is time for Hawk to move on, forget a call and have fun announcing the game.

ChiSoxFan81
06-15-2009, 10:35 AM
Can someone please explain to me how it is an issue when a local broadcaster exhibits a rooting interest in the team he announces for? (For those who are wondering, there is nothing remotely rhetorical about this question.)

I can see the disdain for someone like Berman who has a difficult time hiding his Boston enthusiasm on a national ESPN broadcast, but on a local broadcast? Really, what is the problem?

I've never understood this either. I want our announcers to share the passion and emotion of the games. I don't want some bland, Joe Buck-esque description of our great Sox moments. Many times, Hawk's calls make the moments even better. When I go to games, sometimes I can't wait to get home to hear his call. How many Hawk calls do we quote all the time when recalling fond memories? I guess in other parts of the country, it's considered classless to have a homer in the booth, but that's their loss. I don't want our guy screaming whether it's us or the opponent scoring.

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 10:39 AM
Yep, right as they came back on the air the next inning. He said, "steve, when are you taking time off again" and before Stone could say anything, Hawk said I know Mcdowell won't be taking your place.

Hawk's always been afraid of solid competition, because he's always been mediocre at best and declining. Jack would be a great replacement.

ewokpelts
06-15-2009, 10:45 AM
Hawk's always been afraid of solid competition, because he's always been mediocre at best and declining. Jack would be a great replacement.i bet he HATES that stone was hired.

he migh tlike and respect stone, but he hates being less than top dog. he could bully DJ or any guest color man. But stone? He's a pro.

I was watching the replay last nite of yesterday's game. Stone was asking hawk game related questions that didnt involve carl yaztremski. you could tell hawk, while into the conversation, wasnt entirely pleased he has to WORK now

asindc
06-15-2009, 10:47 AM
I've never understood this either. I want our announcers to share the passion and emotion of the games. I don't want some bland, Joe Buck-esque description of our great Sox moments. Many times, Hawk's calls make the moments even better. When I go to games, sometimes I can't wait to get home to hear his call. How many Hawk calls do we quote all the time when recalling fond memories? I guess in other parts of the country, it's considered classless to have a homer in the booth, but that's their loss. I don't want our guy screaming whether it's us or the opponent scoring.

That's just it. It sound phony to me when a local broadcaster "gets excited" when the opposing team plays well. Dammit, I'm glad it pisses off Hawk as much as it does me. Screw objectivity.

jdm2662
06-15-2009, 10:52 AM
i bet he HATES that stone was hired.

he migh tlike and respect stone, but he hates being less than top dog. he could bully DJ or any guest color man. But stone? He's a pro.

I was watching the replay last nite of yesterday's game. Stone was asking hawk game related questions that didnt involve carl yaztremski. you could tell hawk, while into the conversation, wasnt entirely pleased he has to WORK now

Lip had some inside info that Hawk didn't feel confortable working with Stone. AKA, he doesn't like to actually work and someone that can deflate his ego. Whatever the case, the broadcast is somewhat watchable now. Stone makes both Farmer and Hawk listenable in back to back years. He must be that good.

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 11:12 AM
I love Hawk. Hawk screaming "Yes! Yes! Hell Yes!" today was fantastic, and one of my highlights for the season.

I can understand how non-Sox fans can hate Hawk, but it's unbelievable to me that there are Sox fans that don't like him.

Never liked him from his 1st days here. He's barely tolerable and sometimes not even that.

Jim Shorts
06-15-2009, 11:18 AM
What I'm interesting is in finding out if Hawk has that type of power to pick who he works with.

My impression is that the final decisions in this area belongs to the Director of Broadcast Operations, Bob Grim with input from Brooks Boyer.

Lip


I know you have inside scratch, Lip and I certainly have nothing to base my disagreement on, other than to say I think you might be underestimating Hawks pull with the organization.

Or, perhaps, I'm overestimating it....

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Wassag:

We'll have to disagree. Harry and Jimmy Piersall were the sharpest, most candid, insightful baseball commentary I've ever heard anywhere at anytime.

They were funny, they were caustic, they knew the game and were able to explain the samll details that often meant the difference between winning and losing.

Lip

Absolutely, and in an era unlike today, when announcers would rarely question a coach's move or an umpire's call (like Brickhouse on Tommy Agee's slide, obviously out 5 feet from the plate winning run of the Cubs '69 collapse), they were a breath of accurate insightful fresh air and never pulled a punch. Late in career Harry was at best only a hollow shell of his former self.

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 11:26 AM
I know that my take on things (being HOH) is different. I don't watch games to listen/read what the announcer says. I use the info given me when I need it, but mostly I just watch. I did listen to Hawk for many years and never found him either particularly annoying or amazing. I do think some of the comments I'm seeing this year with Stone in the booth are excellent. I'm actually learning a bit at times and find the anecdotes and insight to be better than in years past with two older more experienced announcers/players in the booth. I also think it gives Hawk room to be the homer he wants/needs to be but prevents it from becoming a tribute to Hawk as it has been in years past at times.

I'd rather have a homer for an announcer anyway. I want a guy who wants the same things I want even if he is a mouthpiece for the owner...

Stoney is the biggest upgrade in the booth with Hawk since Wimpy was forced out. I'd love to see Hawk retire and someone like Jack take on Hawk's role (yeah, tell me Jack wouldn't be a "homey".)

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Same here..I love the guy. As annoying as some of his complaining is and how he goes silent when things aren't going well, he makes things interesting and a game is never boring when he's calling it. I'm hopeful he sticks around until he passes.

I find Hawk boring at least once every time I have to hear him call a game.

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 11:50 AM
The day they put Harrelson and Drysdale--a dull, self-serving phony himself-- in the booth was a black day in Sox history. It is embarrassing that the former is still around.

The worst Sox booth team ever, arrived with a dull "thud". Hawk has slowly improved over the years to be barely tolerable at best.

veeter
06-15-2009, 11:58 AM
I love Hawk. Hawk screaming "Yes! Yes! Hell Yes!" today was fantastic, and one of my highlights for the season.

I can understand how non-Sox fans can hate Hawk, but it's unbelievable to me that there are Sox fans that don't like him.He has his great moments, but unfortunately they're only brief bursts surrounded by repetitive sayings, whining about lead-off walks and old school stories he's told a thousand times.

EastCoastSoxFan
06-15-2009, 12:07 PM
One of the nice things about being an out of town fan (and therefore seeing the Sox either on the internet or Extra Innings) is that I get to hear most of the announcing teams in the American League since most of the time you can't decide which game feed to watch on EI.
I can take Hawk in moderation. He has had some great moments (like his call of the final out of Tom Seaver's 300th win or Ron Kittle's final roof shot in 1990), but if I had to listen to him every game of every season I would probably get as annoyed as many of the posters in this thread.
That said, there are an awful lot of Major League announcing teams that are long on objective information and short on passion...

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 12:19 PM
That said, there are an awful lot of Major League announcing teams that are long on objective information and short on passion...

there's a lot of really bad booth teams these days, really disappointing

Hitmen77
06-15-2009, 12:19 PM
I find Hawk entertaining, but I also hope he retires before he becomes a complete caricature of himself, like Harry Caray did in his last years with the Cubs.

Last years? More like pretty much all his years with the Cubs. He became a caricature of himself by 1984 - only his 3rd year with the Cubs.

Hitmen77
06-15-2009, 12:45 PM
My feelings for Hawk are conflicted. On the one hand, he can be pretty annoying and, at times, embarrassing (as a Sox fan) to hear. I think others here have already done a good job pointing out the problems with Hawk (over the top homerism, constantly blaming the ump, total ass-kissing of the Sox organization). At least with Moronotti gone, we don't have to hear his on-air rants about the "heiny bird" anymore.

.......BUT, I do appreciate that he's a very colorful character and I'm not exactly looking forward to the day that he's replaced by some bland, generic announcer. I seem to remember another era where the Sox announcer was widely criticized as being "unprofessional" and "buffoonish" - perfect for all those white trash Sox fans.......of course that all changed after that announcer left for the North Side in 1982.

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat for a second: I believe that if, for some reason, the Sox got rid of Hawk the Cubs would scoop him up in a second and he'd almost instantly become a beloved nationally-known Cubs legend and the toast of the town. He'd have a 15 year run on the North Side after which he would be canonized as part of long-time Cubs tradition. His association with the Sox would be totally whitewash from common memory and phrases like "He Gone!" and "You can put it on the board!" would become synonymous with Cubs games (perhaps there's room for those phrases on the Wrigley foul poles). Think Hawk is too old for this to happen? He's about the same age now as Harry was when he left the Sox. [/tinfoil] Yes this sounds silly, but I have already seen this happen to the Sox once.

mantis1212
06-15-2009, 12:47 PM
Beckham is playing every day. Why do people keep suggesting that he is not? I watch the Sox every damn day, and I keep seeing Beckham at third base. Am I imagining things?

McDowell is a good baseball man, but his blog post about Beckham was just not correct. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Hawk, but he was on the mark in his remarks about the McDowell blog post.

I didn't hear Hawk talk about Jack, but it sounds likee he overreacted a bit.

At the same time, I did read Jack's column and I found it very ignorant. To think that Ozzie "doesn't like" Beckham is totally unsupported, and he IS playing everyday, so everything he said was pretty much wrong.

I think most Sox fans knew what Ozzie was doing when he was joking about the Bacon "savior" etc- just protecting him from expectations.

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 01:02 PM
I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat for a second: I believe that if, for some reason, the Sox got rid of Hawk the Cubs would scoop him up in a second and he'd almost instantly become a beloved nationally-known Cubs legend and the toast of the town. He'd have a 15 year run on the North Side after which he would be canonized as part of long-time Cubs tradition. His association with the Sox would be totally whitewash from common memory and phrases like "He Gone!" and "You can put it on the board!" would become synonymous with Cubs games (perhaps there's room for those phrases on the Wrigley foul poles). Think Hawk is too old for this to happen? He's about the same age now as Harry was when he left the Sox. [/tinfoil] Yes this sounds silly, but I have already seen this happen to the Sox once.

would be more than fine with me to see this happen, lol

Frankfan4life
06-15-2009, 02:17 PM
I totally agree. No matter the criticisms (and granted, some are warranted because nobody is perfect), you'd be hard-pressed to find another announcer who really loves the White Sox the way Hawk does. I think the day he is replaced by a typical, monotone cookie-cutter announcer is the day a lot of people will realize how much fun it actually was to have him calling White Sox games. Don't know what you got 'til it's gone.I guess you can count me as part of this group.

I think DJ has been groomed to succeed Hawk. I like DJ but he's not the homer Hawk is and I know I'm really going to miss that.

TommyJohn
06-15-2009, 02:24 PM
....... I seem to remember another era where the Sox announcer was widely criticized as being "unprofessional" and "buffoonish" - perfect for all those white trash Sox fans.......of course that all changed after that announcer left for the North Side in 1982.




"Harry Caray is as much a man of the people as Machiavelli was." Rick Schwab Stuck on the Cubs, 1977

Carolina Kenny
06-15-2009, 02:26 PM
I will miss Hawk when he is gone.

Hawk is all big ego and unsufferable.

Hawk is Southern charm.

Hawk is a Hick.

Hawk is a original, with phrases and nicknames.

Hawk lame with stupid stories about the past.

Hawk is a lackey to Sox management.

Hawk is loyal and loves the Sox.

Ditka v. God
06-15-2009, 02:41 PM
I love Hawk as an announcer for all the reasons mentioned above, his undying loyalty/homerism, his knowledge of the game and his willingness to say what's on his mind.

I see Hawk as the announcer equivalent to A.J. Pierzynski, every opposing team/fan base hates Hawk but you love him when he's on your team. I fully admit that if Hawk were the announcer for another team, especially the Cubs or Red Sox, I probably couldn't stand him but I couldn't and don't want to imagine a season without Hawk behind the mic.

And you can put that on the board!

Jim Shorts
06-15-2009, 02:50 PM
I love Hawk as an announcer for all the reasons mentioned above, his undying loyalty/homerism, his knowledge of the game and his willingness to say what's on his mind.

I see Hawk as the announcer equivalent to A.J. Pierzynski, every opposing team/fan base hates Hawk but you love when he's on your team. I fully admit that if Hawk we're the announcer for another team, especially the Cubs or Red Sox, I probably couldn't stand him but I couldn't and don't want to imagine a season without Hawk behind the mic.

And you can put that on the board!


Well, hey, Hawk's been watching AJ since he was seventeen. You might be onto something here:D:

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 03:46 PM
I love Hawk as an announcer for all the reasons mentioned above, his undying loyalty/homerism, his knowledge of the game and his willingness to say what's on his mind.

I see Hawk as the announcer equivalent to A.J. Pierzynski, every opposing team/fan base hates Hawk but you love him when he's on your team. I fully admit that if Hawk were the announcer for another team, especially the Cubs or Red Sox, I probably couldn't stand him but I couldn't and don't want to imagine a season without Hawk behind the mic.

And you can put that on the board!

AJ has great talent as a ballplayer.
Hawk has medicore at best talent as an announcer, not a good comparison at all.

Ditka v. God
06-15-2009, 04:03 PM
AJ has great talent as a ballplayer.
Hawk has medicore at best talent as an announcer, not a good comparison at all.

Those are both subjective statements, to each their own I guess.

ode to veeck
06-15-2009, 08:05 PM
Those are both subjective statements, to each their own I guess.

Let's see, AJ's a two time all-star with a ring he gratly contributed to, a lifetime .285 BA and is currently leading the sox with a .303 BA, not a damn thing subjective about it.

35th and Shields
06-15-2009, 08:31 PM
I guess you can count me as part of this group.

I think DJ has been groomed to succeed Hawk. I like DJ but he's not the homer Hawk is and I know I'm really going to miss that.

I would honestly rather pay, whatever the cost, to listen to road announcers for 162 games then listen to DJ for the whole season.

kaufsox
06-15-2009, 08:31 PM
I find Hawk entertaining, but I also hope he retires before he becomes a complete caricature of himself, like Harry Caray did in his last years with the Cubs.

that's about it. Hawk isn't the greatest baseball announcer ever, but I've heard worse. As much as I like professionalism, too many of the new breed are, for lack of a better phrase, too professional, too vanilla. I also think Stone has given Hawk some new life. He's not pouting as much and Stone keeps throwing softball questions that get him talking for 10-15 minute stretches. sorry about that last pun:D:

Gremlin3
06-15-2009, 09:35 PM
I've been done with Hawk for a long time. If it wasn't for Stone the sound on the tv would be turned off.

Brian26
06-15-2009, 09:53 PM
Wassag:

We'll have to disagree. Harry and Jimmy Piersall were the sharpest, most candid, insightful baseball commentary I've ever heard anywhere at anytime.

They were funny, they were caustic, they knew the game and were able to explain the samll details that often meant the difference between winning and losing.

Lip

I think Harry and Jimmy are romanticized in a way by fans of that era and probably get more credit than they deserve. I don't remember specific moments from their broadcasts because I was only eight years old when I switched over to the Sox. but I was completely unimpressed with their act during the '81 opener that ran on MLB Network a few weeks back.

It seems like one aspect that Hawk doesn't get enough credit for is describing some of the nuances of the game from his perspective as a former player. This is an area that Harry, with all of his schtick, could never bring to the table.

I'll give one quick example. Hawk has talked in the past about how he used to prepare for a game in batting practice by pulling 15 pitches, then trying to hit 15 balls up the middle and then taking the next 15 pitches the opposite way, and the entire time never trying to hit anything over the fence. Then he compares this to players today who go into BP without a plan other than playing homerun derby. I listened and watched Harry through his Cubs run, and I never ever heard anything even close to that insightful about the game come out of his mouth.

tsoxman
06-15-2009, 10:17 PM
I think Harry and Jimmy are romanticized in a way by fans of that era and probably get more credit than they deserve. I don't remember specific moments from their broadcasts because I was only eight years old when I switched over to the Sox. but I was completely unimpressed with their act during the '81 opener that ran on MLB Network a few weeks back.


Question for you Brian 26....Are you basing your evaluation on the one game that you watched on MLB, or are you old enough to have heard both of them for an extended period? If the former, you probably do not have much of a sample size to base your comments. Hands down these guys were the best and the most entertaing announcing duo I have ever heard. They were informative, hilarious, and honest, perhaps to a fault. Even during his early stint with the Cubs, Harry did not come close to his body of work with the Sox.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2009, 10:24 PM
Brian:

I've got tape in my library of Harry and Jimmy predicting exactly what was going to happen next based on the pitcher / hitter / pitch selection and so forth.

I've also got a tape of their first 'unofficial' broadcast together when Jimmy was still working for Texas and visited Harry in the booth in Arlington. The chemistry was there from the first second. They were insightful and funny.

Not putting down other Sox announcers that I know like Milo Hamilton, Lorn Brown, Joe McConnell but Harry and Jimmy put them all to shame and that especially goes for Hawk.

Jimmy put Steve Stone and Hawk when he was an analyst to bed, he was that good, that detailed about the little things that make the difference in a game, Harry didn't need to do that nor was that his job. Don't even consider his work with the Cubs when evaluating the man...for most of that time period because of his medical issues, Harry didn't even know what ballpark he was in.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3246

Lip

TheVulture
06-16-2009, 01:41 AM
BA should definitely go in the booth before Wise. The only reason Wise would get in over Anderson is if Ozzie is the one making the broadcast decisions.

There's a few guys on this team I'd rather see in the broadcast booth at this point.

Ron Karkovice
06-16-2009, 02:24 AM
I've been done with Hawk for a long time. If it wasn't for Stone the sound on the tv would be turned off.


Right.... You'd rather watch it on mute! :scratch::rolleyes:

I_Liked_Manuel
06-16-2009, 02:26 AM
I'll give one quick example. Hawk has talked in the past about how he used to prepare for a game in batting practice by pulling 15 pitches, then trying to hit 15 balls up the middle and then taking the next 15 pitches the opposite way, and the entire time never trying to hit anything over the fence. Then he compares this to players today who go into BP without a plan other than playing homerun derby. I listened and watched Harry through his Cubs run, and I never ever heard anything even close to that insightful about the game come out of his mouth.

This is one of Hawk's major faults - he rambles on multiple times a night about what happened 40 years ago. I'd rather he focus on what's happening in the game in front of him. If you pay attention, he talks about Carl Yastrzemski in fair depth at least once per series. There's no need for it. I didn't hear his broadcasts this weekend up in Milwaukee, but he took 10 minutes in a game against the Tigers to talk about Yaz hitting with bad wrists in '68. 90% of what comes out of Hawk's mouth is pointless - he's telling stories, not being insightful. Stonie on the other hand, gives some insight when he's not too busy telling you about every pitch that a pitcher has in his arsenal.

HomeFish
06-16-2009, 02:58 AM
Ed Farmer does storytime much better.

Noneck
06-16-2009, 08:58 AM
Brian:

I've got tape in my library of Harry and Jimmy predicting exactly what was going to happen next based on the pitcher / hitter / pitch selection and so forth.

I've also got a tape of their first 'unofficial' broadcast together when Jimmy was still working for Texas and visited Harry in the booth in Arlington. The chemistry was there from the first second. They were insightful and funny.

Not putting down other Sox announcers that I know like Milo Hamilton, Lorn Brown, Joe McConnell but Harry and Jimmy put them all to shame and that especially goes for Hawk.

Jimmy put Steve Stone and Hawk when he was an analyst to bed, he was that good, that detailed about the little things that make the difference in a game, Harry didn't need to do that nor was that his job. Don't even consider his work with the Cubs when evaluating the man...for most of that time period because of his medical issues, Harry didn't even know what ballpark he was in.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3246

Lip

All the above is totally correct and perfectly stated. The only other thing I can add is the entertainment factor Harry and Jimmy provided during a boring game. I used to listen to them for the whole game no matter what the score was. Harrelson adds no entertainment to a game and in blow out games he just does more of the shilling carnival barker routine.

spawn
06-16-2009, 09:20 AM
It seems like one aspect that Hawk doesn't get enough credit for is describing some of the nuances of the game from his perspective as a former player. This is an area that Harry, with all of his schtick, could never bring to the table.

I'll give one quick example. Hawk has talked in the past about how he used to prepare for a game in batting practice by pulling 15 pitches, then trying to hit 15 balls up the middle and then taking the next 15 pitches the opposite way, and the entire time never trying to hit anything over the fence. Then he compares this to players today who go into BP without a plan other than playing homerun derby. I listened and watched Harry through his Cubs run, and I never ever heard anything even close to that insightful about the game come out of his mouth.
This I agree with completely. I'll give another example. His broadcast in Milwaukee on Friday, when Josh Fields was batting against Suppan. Right before Fields popped out weakly in foul territory, he tells us "watch his setup", or something to that effect with regards to Josh's timing mechanism. Right after the popup, he broke down exaclty what Field's problem is with it, saying he was going into his mechanism much too late to be effective. This is why I think he and Stoney make such an awesome duo on the booth. Hawk is good at breaking things down from the batter's side, while Stoney does his thing with regards to pitching. And I think they play off of each others egos pretty well.

I know there are those that believe Hawk always rambles with his stories (and sometimes he does do that), but I love how he compares the players of his era and the players today. Yes, he talks about Catfish Hunter, Yaz, and other players from his time quite a bit, but I do love it when he does. these are players I never saw in their prime, and I like hearing about them from someone who has observed them over his career in baseball.

beasly213
06-16-2009, 09:28 AM
The thing I like about Hawk is he will keep me interested in a game that is a blow out with his stories.
I'm noticing a lot of people here bashing him for those same stories but I don't ever notice Hawk telling those stories during an important part of the game or if the game is tight. His stories are generally reserved for some of the slower less intese moments and in my opinion that makes for a much better broadcast then guys who just call what they see on the field.

ode to veeck
06-16-2009, 09:48 AM
I would honestly rather pay, whatever the cost, to listen to road announcers for 162 games then listen to DJ for the whole season.

absolutely... grooming DJ for Hawk's job is like grooming Fields to take over for Royce Clayton

Waysouthsider
06-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Its hard not to feel good with Hawk. His excitement is infectious and he's a true "old school" homer. I don't listen to Hawk for his mastery of statistics but for his perspective from a lifetime with the game. Steve Stone more than amply handles the data....Hawk handles the adrenaline!
:cool:

angiew
06-16-2009, 01:37 PM
I know there are those that believe Hawk always rambles with his stories (and sometimes he does do that), but I love how he compares the players of his era and the players today. Yes, he talks about Catfish Hunter, Yaz, and other players from his time quite a bit, but I do love it when he does. these are players I never saw in their prime, and I like hearing about them from someone who has observed them over his career in baseball.

I totally agree. I think the history of the game is extremely important for the youngsters out there to hear.

Britt Burns
06-16-2009, 02:48 PM
Just no golf stories. For me there is nothing that ruins a game than listening to one of his rambling three-inning golf escapades.

kaufsox
06-16-2009, 02:55 PM
Brian:

Don't even consider his work with the Cubs when evaluating the man...for most of that time period because of his medical issues, Harry didn't even know what ballpark he was in.


Lip

Yet another reason I became a Sox fan as opposed to Cubs like so many transplants. I worked the security for the cubs convention in 97 and Harry was a pathetic person. He had no idea where he was, could barely walk, and I truly felt sorry for him. The way the Cubs organization trotted him out, basically exploited this old man made me angry and a little disgusted.

ode to veeck
06-16-2009, 04:35 PM
Its hard not to feel good with Hawk. His excitement is infectious and he's a true "old school" homer. I don't listen to Hawk for his mastery of statistics but for his perspective from a lifetime with the game. Steve Stone more than amply handles the data....Hawk handles the adrenaline!
:cool:

welcome to WSI!

dwalteroo
06-19-2009, 08:55 PM
I missed the start of tonight's (Friday)'s game. Where's Hawkaroo?

WhiteSoxFan84
06-19-2009, 08:59 PM
That's what I'm wondering too. I could've swore I heard him in the beginning of the broadcast? Maybe he's on his way back to Chicago to fight off the thunder, lightening, and rain. :D:

BigP50
06-19-2009, 09:05 PM
tending to a family matter

CLR01
06-19-2009, 09:10 PM
tending to a family matter

Hopefully it takes the rest of the season.

BleacherBandit
06-19-2009, 09:19 PM
Hopefully it takes the rest of the season.

You'd be wishing whatever personal trouble one of his family members has encountered to be long and painful. :rolleyes:

But maybe it's a wedding...who knows...

Noneck
06-19-2009, 09:28 PM
Hopefully it takes the rest of the season.

And leads to retirement thereafter.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-19-2009, 09:41 PM
As long as whatever the situation is, isn't too bad, I hope he's gone for a while also. The guy is way too emotional and just depresses me. When we are behind in a game, anyone considered suicidal should not be allowed to watch. EVERYTHING seems to go against us; every close call, the weather, the lucky breaks, EVERYTHING.

As annoying as Len Kasper's voice is, I find myself enjoying their broadcasts a lot more. But it's funny because I enjoy their broadcasts A LOT more when the Cubs are losing. :redneck


Stoney just said that Hawk will be back tomorrow (dagnubit!) and that all is well with his family (thank God).

BleacherBandit
06-19-2009, 09:46 PM
I don't know why everybody is complaining like little babies about Hawk. So what if he's emotional? Maybe you're just stoic if you can't stand him. I for one really enjoy Hawk's broadcasts even if he's a overexgerates the impact of umpires or mistakes long fly-balls for homeruns. When he leaves the Sox broadcast team, it will mark a new chapter in the story of my Sox fandom.

Viva Medias B's
06-19-2009, 09:57 PM
I don't know why everybody is complaining like little babies about Hawk. So what if he's emotional? Maybe you're just stoic if you can't stand him. I for one really enjoy Hawk's broadcasts even if he's a overexgerates the impact of umpires or mistakes long fly-balls for homeruns. When he leaves the Sox broadcast team, it will mark a new chapter in the story of my Sox fandom.

So you let whoever the announcer is for your team affect your fandom of it?

DirtySox
06-19-2009, 10:06 PM
Stoney was great. This not having to mute the TV thing was wonderful. :smile:

TheAnswer32
06-19-2009, 10:08 PM
Hawk sucks. I wish he would just retire. I loved him when I was young, but I have grown tired of his crying and stupid sayings.

BleacherBandit
06-19-2009, 10:22 PM
So you let whoever the announcer is for your team affect your fandom of it?

:rolleyes: Please read between the lines better next time.

I like Hawk, so when he leaves, it'll mark a new chapter in my sox fandom. That doesn't apply to any announcer. I don't know how bad I'll feel when Farmer leaves, but that doesn't mean I dislike him.

Andy T Clown
06-19-2009, 10:29 PM
I hope all is well with the Hawkaroo!

:hawk

Bobby Thigpen
06-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Stoney was great. This not having to mute the TV thing was wonderful. :smile:
I thought it was boring as all get out.

Very sterile, boring and bland. I hope this is not what we have to look forward to in the days of post Hawkdom.

Dibbs
06-19-2009, 11:24 PM
Nothing against Stone, but that was brutal to listen to today. Couldn't they find anybody to sit with him? I hope the Hawk is back very, very soon.

kitekrazy
06-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Hawk sucks. I wish he would just retire. I loved him when I was young, but I have grown tired of his crying and stupid sayings.

Me too. I got bored of Harry in his later years with the Sox.
I couldn't stand Stone when he was with this Cubs.

There's no pattern to this madness.

Hawk just needs to lay off blaming the umps for a game.

JB98
06-19-2009, 11:58 PM
Me too. I got bored of Harry in his later years with the Sox.
I couldn't stand Stone when he was with this Cubs.

There's no pattern to this madness.

Hawk just needs to lay off blaming the umps for a game.

Hawk would have had a field day with tonight's umpire. Arroyo was getting six inches off the corner all night.

Nellie_Fox
06-20-2009, 02:04 AM
tending to a family matter

Hopefully it takes the rest of the season.Lovely.:shakehead:

CLR01
06-20-2009, 05:17 AM
Lovely.:shakehead:

:whiner:


:rolleyes:

LongLiveFisk
06-20-2009, 10:03 AM
Yet another reason I became a Sox fan as opposed to Cubs like so many transplants. I worked the security for the cubs convention in 97 and Harry was a pathetic person. He had no idea where he was, could barely walk, and I truly felt sorry for him. The way the Cubs organization trotted him out, basically exploited this old man made me angry and a little disgusted.

Some can say he was always like that anyway but I do think he was getting worse and worse and this could have been a sign of what was looming on the horizon. Harry died in Feb '98.

jdm2662
06-20-2009, 02:14 PM
I wish Hawk and his family the best. Hope all is well.

That said, him not being in the booth last night was a great thing...

mweflen
06-26-2009, 12:03 AM
Is Hawk a homer? Yes.
Does he ramble on with unconnected stories at times? Yes.
Is Stone a better analyst? Yes.

Nonetheless, he is still fun to listen to.

1. He can still call a game, unlike late Caray or current Santo.
2. While some of his Hawkisms have become grating (mostly the new ones like "this ballgame is OVAH"), some are still classics.
3. His passion is infectious and makes it easy to let the annoying stuff slide.

I hope he stays as long as he's able to maintain at this level.

After that, I wouldn't mind seeing Stone and DJ as the TV team. DJ's screwball humor really grew on me, and he can give nearly the same insight from the hitter's POV that Stone does for pitchers.

chisoxfanatic
06-26-2009, 12:07 AM
After that, I wouldn't mind seeing Stone and DJ as the TV team. DJ's screwball humor really grew on me, and he can give nearly the same insight from the hitter's POV that Stone does for pitchers.
It took a while for me to take a liking to DJ, but he grew on me as well, and I miss him. My favorite DJ moment was when he called Hawk "sexy." :redneck

DJ used that exact same word on the radio, and Farmio sounded like he was about to rip off his head.

ChicagoG19
06-26-2009, 12:46 AM
Does anyone else enjoy Hawk saying that as much as do? I think that is the funniest Hawkism yet.

chisoxfanatic
06-26-2009, 12:50 AM
I do, but I don't like the 2nd "Yes!" after home runs.

Rohan
06-26-2009, 12:51 AM
I enjoy it... But I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I detest his other new Hawkism..

Hawk: You can put it on the board... YES! *Awkward silence while Stone Poney stares blankly at Hawk as Hawk waits in anticipation* YEEESSS!

Redus Redux
06-26-2009, 12:52 AM
As with most things Hawk does, I have to just giggle and consider him the 'wacky grandpa'

Especially when he tells me what "all the Japanese pitchers do" or "what the Latins are up to"

DumpJerry
06-26-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm sure Stone, as well as many of us, mark off each day on the calendar to the end of Hawk's contract.

BigP50
06-26-2009, 01:16 AM
I love the Hell Yes at the end of the games!

MarkZ35
06-26-2009, 01:36 AM
The 2nd Yes is okay sometimes but a home run when your up 10 or down 10 doesn't deserve a 2nd Yes. I really like the Hell Yes at the end of games though.

BleacherBandit
06-26-2009, 02:19 AM
I'm sure Stone, as well as many of us, mark off each day on the calendar to the end of Hawk's contract.

I'm not. Hawk is a legend.

southside rocks
06-26-2009, 07:42 AM
There's already a big Hawk thread going: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=112720

Too many Hawk threads and I for one will start seeing FOHHs where they might not exist. :cool:

Dibbs
06-26-2009, 09:27 AM
You're dadgum right I love the hell yes.

AnkleSox
06-26-2009, 09:33 AM
I'm sure Stone, as well as many of us, mark off each day on the calendar to the end of Hawk's contract.

I'm definitely part of that crowd.

jdm2662
06-26-2009, 10:13 AM
I'm sure Stone, as well as many of us, mark off each day on the calendar to the end of Hawk's contract.

Look at what Stone has had to work with. He had to work with a beaten down Harry for many years, and now Hawk...

JohnnyInnsbrook
06-26-2009, 10:26 AM
I'm sure Stone, as well as many of us, mark off each day on the calendar to the end of Hawk's contract.

Speak for yourself

I love the "YES! HELL YES!" line... I kinda want to make a sign with it for today's game.

voodoochile
06-26-2009, 10:37 AM
While I admire the passion of the statement, it strikes me as one of the clearest pieces of evidence (along with his use of the term "BS") that Hawk is losing it.

I'm sure he was taught not to say things like that as a broadcaster. The fact he is either proves he's no longer thinking clearly or just doesn't give a crap what people think and while I agree the societal norms have changed since Hawk started announcing games, it's still pretty silly to have the Sox announcer dropping what many people still consider swear words into his everyday repertoire.

areilly
06-26-2009, 10:39 AM
DJ used that exact same word on the radio, and Farmio sounded like he was about to rip off his head.

I often get the feeling Farmer and DJ don't like each other very much, although I suspect working with Rooney skewed his opinion of anyone that would ever step into the booth in his wake.

thegooch
06-26-2009, 10:40 AM
I tell you what, I'm not a big fan of the Yes! Hell yes!.

areilly
06-26-2009, 10:43 AM
I enjoy it... But I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I detest his other new Hawkism..

Hawk: You can put it on the board... YES! *Awkward silence while Stone Poney stares blankly at Hawk as Hawk waits in anticipation* YEEESSS!

I don't like the "Hell Yes," and I reeeeeeally don't like the second Yes! on the home run call. It makes him sound like a sad, lonely old man still waiting for his friend DJ to come and save him from this big bully everyone calls Stone Pony, constantly showing up Hawk with his "facts" and "accurate recollection of history" and all.

jdm2662
06-26-2009, 10:54 AM
I don't like the "Hell Yes," and I reeeeeeally don't like the second Yes! on the home run call. It makes him sound like a sad, lonely old man still waiting for his friend DJ to come and save him from this big bully everyone calls Stone Pony, constantly showing up Hawk with his "facts" and "accurate recollection of history" and all.

Yeah, Hawk actually has to work with a top notch anaylist that won't bow down to him. That's horrible. Poor thing.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 02:54 PM
For anybody that claims Hawk never criticizes the Sox when it is warranted, he's ripping into Alexei (and subtly the Sox coaching staff) right now for TCM playing too deep in the hole in double-play situations. Good stuff.

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2009, 04:00 PM
It was quite entertaining to hear him describe the difference between ash and maple bats and how it changes how a player is able to field during today's broadcast.

TDog
07-04-2009, 05:12 PM
For anybody that claims Hawk never criticizes the Sox when it is warranted, he's ripping into Alexei (and subtly the Sox coaching staff) right now for TCM playing too deep in the hole in double-play situations. Good stuff.

Is it? Or is he looking for someone to blame, the umpires apparently not being culpable today?

Harrelson was hired as the Sox GM because he thought he had all the answers. The list of answers only just started with moving Fisk to left.

I don't mind not being able to listen to him.

Noneck
07-04-2009, 05:41 PM
For anybody that claims Hawk never criticizes the Sox when it is warranted, he's ripping into Alexei (and subtly the Sox coaching staff) right now for TCM playing too deep in the hole in double-play situations. Good stuff.

The 1st time he actually does that to the coaching staff or anyone in management (and not subtly), I will not mute his broadcast.

Brian26
07-04-2009, 05:56 PM
Is it? Or is he looking for someone to blame, the umpires apparently not being culpable today?

Harrelson was hired as the Sox GM because he thought he had all the answers. The list of answers only just started with moving Fisk to left.

I don't mind not being able to listen to him.


I'm not seeing the correlation between Fisk playing leftfield 23 years ago and Hawk criticizing Missile's defensive positioning today. Care to objectively enlighten us since you didn't hear the broadcast?

TDog
07-04-2009, 07:32 PM
I'm not seeing the correlation between Fisk playing leftfield 23 years ago and Hawk criticizing Missile's defensive positioning today. Care to objectively enlighten us since you didn't hear the broadcast?

An objective opinion?

My complaint is general about Ken Harrelson not being a very good announcer. Blaming Ramirez for his defensive positioning (which by all accounts he did) is different from lamenting his Ramirez' defensive positioning. If he had complained about Ramirez defensive positioning before the fact (which I haven't heard anyone claim), he would be in a better position to blame Ramirez after the fact.

Harrelson's failure as a general manager (and it wasn't limited to turning Carlton Fisk into an outfielder) is relevant because it should have shown everyone that as much as Harrelson knows about baseball, he is often wrong. Ultimately he had to go back to sitting and watching. My opinion is that Harrelson as an announcer combines unjustified arrogance with taking himself too seriously. Nothing I have read here leads me to believe his work today strayed from that.

BigP50
07-09-2009, 12:26 PM
after watching the game on monday, Hawk inspired me to make this. Here are 2 of my favorites.


"Thanks Chuckmister, I like that Tie".

"I love rainbows".



feel free to add more......

Gammons Peter
07-09-2009, 12:30 PM
Mine goes back a while......
After Kittle hit one on the roof at the old park Hawk said:

You gotta have hair on the bottom of your feet to hit one up there.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-09-2009, 12:43 PM
So is "Hell Yeah!" an official addition to Hawk's "You can put it on the board" call?

Oblong
07-09-2009, 12:51 PM
one of our radio stations here in Detroit was having some fun with that "Hell yeah" call. During the Detroit mayor scandal last year they released text messages between the mayor and his mistress/chief of staff. A newscaster was reading the messages on the air and one of the texts said "Hell Yeah!". The way he said it was funny because he was trying to convey how it was meant to be heard. So the station always plays that sound byte, "Hell yeah!" to new callers and such.

So now they've jokingly assumed that Hawk must have picked up on it and is trying to copy it.

Cuck the Fubs
07-09-2009, 12:54 PM
Hawk Harrelson? Love Him ? HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rikirk
07-24-2009, 06:41 AM
Ok folks...bear with me here...

Im just a bit curious here cuz basically im a bit in the dark.

Why do so many people hate Hawk Harrelsons homerism...or just Hawk in general. Is it wrong to love your home team? Is there some unwritten rule that says an announcer cant love the team he calls for?

Ive been looking at a few sites on the net and elsewhere after Buehrles Perfect game, *wonderfull job Mark*, and all I see is Hawk bashing.

Did he do something to someone somewhere that has an ax to grind with him?

I dunno...Im just wondering.

Apollogies if this has been asked before...anyway I know this thread will be deleted in a few days anyway.

:cool:

bigsoxfan420
07-24-2009, 07:09 AM
I am kind mixed on Hawk; I do appreciate his "homerism" sometimes, but I don't think that's the real drag against him. I think the main criticism of him is his little catchphrases and the little colloquialisms that only he seems to have ever heard of (hang-whiff-um, bayou speed, dag-gummit, just to name a few). Also, what the ****'s up with "Stone Pony", that's got to be the stupidest name and only Hawk uses for Stoney, but he says it like we should all know who he's talking about.

If you listen to other team's home broadcasts you get the feeling that they have actual professional broadcasters, even if they were once players. With Hawk it's like they had a "number one fan contest" and he won and the prize is getting to be a play-by-play guy. It's okay to get excited when your team hits a homerun to take the lead or makes a great play, but not at every little foul ball ("Thank you very much") or long pop up. It's okay for us to say it, we are fans, but come on Hawk be a little bit of a professional.

I don't hate the guy. When he retires it will be the end of an era, I just wish that era would just end already.

eastchicagosoxfan
07-24-2009, 07:31 AM
I want Hawk to cool it on the men in blue, the Ted Williams stories, and the constant hyperbole. I've enjoyed the Hawk era, the catch phrases, etc. but I too wish it would end. I hope next year is his last year. He'll be involved in MLB in seven different decades. He's alluded to that several times. Hawk will be the only guy to give himself a farewell tour, and present himself with gifts at each stop along the way.

dickallen15
07-24-2009, 08:22 AM
I love Hawk. I don't like the constant complaining about umpires, but many of the people who complain about Hawk's "homerism" also complain if certain networks don't pay enough attention to the Sox. When Hawk's reign ends, if they brought in a non-homer, he would be slammed for being that. People just like to complain.

Madvora
07-24-2009, 08:26 AM
I just think the anti-Hawks are way more vocal than the people that like him. It just seems like more people here dislike him.

I love Hawk, but there's no reason to start a thread that I love Hawk. However, if he says something that one person doesn't like, then there will be a thread on it.

SOXBOY
07-24-2009, 08:39 AM
Love the Hawk because is like all of us Sox fans. He lives and dies with the team.

hawkjt
07-24-2009, 09:56 AM
Yes, I do not watch Sox games in a professional,detached manner..why should Hawk? If he rubs opposing fanbases wrong...I do not care.
Personally,as an old guy, I like less detachment and more color, even tho baseball is more of a big business with every passing year. Passion is a good thing,in my book.

When I did the whip around on the various networks...MLBNetwork,Baseball2Nite,ESPNNews ect...every single one mentioned wanting to hear the Hawk call on the Wise catch and the final out...wonder why? Cuz no one can say ''MERCY!!'' like the Hawkeroo.

Screw the critics. Hawk is White Sox Baseball.

spongyfungy
07-24-2009, 10:24 AM
When Hawk has a nickname for someone, it sticks and it's known nationwide. I hear el caballo on sportscenter all the time.

ESPN prefers to use his call on white Sox highlights voicing over the FSN Rays telecast because it is exciting and homerific. I think the the people nationwide commenting on his call have nothing else to comment on so they just bash Hawk.

I'm not the biggest Hawk go but I have to admit it's fun to hear him when something like this happens

downstairs
07-24-2009, 10:28 AM
Non-Sox fans don't like his homerism, just like everyone but Yanks fans (myself, and I'd bet most people here) can't stand that "THAAAAA YANKEEEEES WIN" dude in NY.

Now, I like Hawk's homerism. But his skills beyond that have fallen in recent years, and now he is nothing but a charactacher of himself.

Chez
07-24-2009, 10:50 AM
I predict that the next two statues on the concourse will be Frank Thomas and the Hawk. He's been a huge part of the organization for decades.

bigsoxfan420
07-24-2009, 10:51 AM
I predict that the next two statues on the concourse will be Frank Thomas and the Hawk. He's been a huge part of the organization for decades.

I think you are correct. Though I hope they wait until he retires before they do it.

stacksedwards
07-24-2009, 11:31 AM
I think for the 162 game grind that is the baseball season you need a hommer in the booth. What I like about Hawk is when things are going bad he tells you that too. I dont follow anyother teams on a nightly basis more than just checking standings and box scores so I really dont care about other teams' anouncers. Hawk is more good than bad and I enjoy him in the booth.

PeteWard
07-24-2009, 12:44 PM
I predict that the next two statues on the concourse will be Frank Thomas and the Hawk. He's been a huge part of the organization for decades.

You are out of your goddamn mind.

His call of the last out yesterday is all the evidence one needs of what an amateur he is and has always been. Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes .

PeteWard
07-24-2009, 12:48 PM
Ok folks...bear with me here...

Im just a bit curious here cuz basically im a bit in the dark.

Why do so many people hate Hawk Harrelsons homerism...or just Hawk in general. Is it wrong to love your home team? Is there some unwritten rule that says an announcer cant love the team he calls for?

Ive been looking at a few sites on the net and elsewhere after Buehrles Perfect game, *wonderfull job Mark*, and all I see is Hawk bashing.

Did he do something to someone somewhere that has an ax to grind with him?

I dunno...Im just wondering.

Apollogies if this has been asked before...anyway I know this thread will be deleted in a few days anyway.

:cool:

Stop with the strawman. Harry and Jimmy were homers but they were good and were objective when it came to umps and Sox **** ups. Harrelson is simply a babbling idiot.

IspepAloc
07-24-2009, 03:49 PM
Yes, I do not watch Sox games in a professional,detached manner..why should Hawk? If he rubs opposing fanbases wrong...I do not care.
Personally,as an old guy, I like less detachment and more color, even tho baseball is more of a big business with every passing year. Passion is a good thing,in my book.

When I did the whip around on the various networks...MLBNetwork,Baseball2Nite,ESPNNews ect...every single one mentioned wanting to hear the Hawk call on the Wise catch and the final out...wonder why? Cuz no one can say ''MERCY!!'' like the Hawkeroo.

Screw the critics. Hawk is White Sox Baseball.

Hawk's call was absolutely perfect for the Wise catch. In that moment of the game, it was one hell of a catch and even other commentators would be impressed with it. What irks me with people is they see fault for his homerish behavior even though other teams have the same things, maybe not quite to Hawk's level. Ron Santo is a good example for the North Side. In the PS3 MLB 09, you hear his call for Zambrano's No-No and he's screaming YESSSS! How is that different than Hawk's calls for this. There is a big difference between a Perfect Game and a No-No.

Man, I am going to have to email Sony to get them to add that Wise call in for MLB 10. Mercy

BleacherBandit
07-24-2009, 06:38 PM
Anybody who spends this much time hating Hawk Harrelson probably hates themself a bit, too. He's the voice my generation of Sox fans. Deal with it.

thomas35forever
07-24-2009, 06:47 PM
I think yesterday was a perfect day for those who hate Hawk. They, especially Cubs fans, used the perfect game as an excuse to bash him. As a Sox fan, I love Hawk and always will. I appreciate an announcer who runs with the emotions of the fans. Is he the best announcer out there? Of course not. Is he the worst? Could be, but he's unique in his own way and that alone makes us appreciate him.

ode to veeck
07-24-2009, 06:50 PM
Anybody who spends this much time hating Hawk Harrelson probably hates themself a bit, too. He's the voice my generation of Sox fans. Deal with it.

we just don't have to like him because we've had much better

BleacherBandit
07-24-2009, 07:05 PM
we just don't have to like him because we've had much better

No offense, but I can't imagine that this is the argument of Hawk-haters. Frank Thomas was a better hitter at 1B than Paul Konerko. Do you dislike Paul Konerko? Luis Aparacio was a better defensive SS than Alexei Ramirez; do you hate Alexei Ramirez?

You can dislike Ken Harrelson's homerism, his distaste for bad umpiring, and his disregard of criticism on live TV, that's your opinion. But last I checked, there was no metric of taking these qualities and determining if they make him a good announcer or not. You can dislike people for a slew of reasons, but remember that there are people on the other side of the argument, and unless those people are just plain and factually wrong, I think you should stop complaining.

Brian26
07-24-2009, 08:36 PM
Did anyone else think Stone joined Hawk on the "YES!" call after the final out yesterday? Someone else yelled along with Hawk in the background, it was hard to tell who though.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 08:56 PM
Hawk definitely is becoming a caricature of himself. But he's still entertaining and he still knows the game, and he still adds a lot to the broadcast. Compare that to Santo - who as a complete caricature of himself adds nothing in the way of "color" to the game other than the emotional reactions of a longsuffering fan.

Put another way, Hawk's knowledge of the game comes out in his homeristic call of the game. Santo's knowledge of the game is completely missing in his "analysis."

Noneck
07-24-2009, 10:23 PM
Hawk definitely is becoming a caricature of himself. But he's still entertaining and he still knows the game, and he still adds a lot to the broadcast. Compare that to Santo - who as a complete caricature of himself adds nothing in the way of "color" to the game other than the emotional reactions of a longsuffering fan.

Put another way, Hawk's knowledge of the game comes out in his homeristic call of the game. Santo's knowledge of the game is completely missing in his "analysis."

Jeez, I'm no Harrelson fan but when he is being compared to Santo, it has to be time for him to draw his pension.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2009, 10:38 PM
Jeez, I'm no Harrelson fan but when he is being compared to Santo, it has to be time for him to draw his pension.

I'm contrasting, not comparing. Bad word choice on my part. My point is that Hawk is becoming a caricature of himself, but he's still informative and still calls a good game.

Noneck
07-24-2009, 10:41 PM
I'm contrasting, not comparing. Bad word choice on my part. My point is that Hawk is becoming a caricature of himself, but he's still informative and still calls a good game.

I am not going agree with you but I dont think he is at the Santo stage, yet. Maybe next year.

whitesoxfan
07-24-2009, 10:45 PM
Did anyone else think Stone joined Hawk on the "YES!" call after the final out yesterday? Someone else yelled along with Hawk in the background, it was hard to tell who though.

A couple of my friends and myself all thought Stone joined in with Hawk there.

It was only a matter of time.

ode to veeck
07-25-2009, 01:21 AM
Love the Hawk because is like all of us Sox fans. He lives and dies with the team.

He has come to become that, though he really didn't start out that way as the Sox announcer. I have come to enjoy his enthusiasm for the Sox but I have never cared for his coverage of the ball game. The worst was when he started out with dandy Don Drysdale.

ode to veeck
07-25-2009, 01:24 AM
For anybody that claims Hawk never criticizes the Sox when it is warranted, he's ripping into Alexei (and subtly the Sox coaching staff) right now for TCM playing too deep in the hole in double-play situations. Good stuff.

Alexi needs some coaching and drilling at SS position in many situations. He doesn't charge a lot of slow or hopping balls and let's such balls play him rather than vice versa, making for a lot of needlessly close plays.

ode to veeck
07-25-2009, 01:25 AM
Mine goes back a while......
After Kittle hit one on the roof at the old park Hawk said:

You gotta have hair on the bottom of your feet to hit one up there.

lol great one

Domeshot17
07-25-2009, 01:28 AM
I don't know, I like hawk at times, and hate him at times. Sometimes its great to hear a big play called with emotion like Wise's catch. However, I could have lived without 5 YES'S called after the perfecto. That would have been a great spot for a really well thought out summation of Buehrle's accomplishment.

I also hate how when an ump blows a strike call, and the Sox fail to work around it, that Hawk bitches for a week about the call. I guess playing for a while, you hear enough coaches tell you 1 call, 1 strike, will almost never decide a game. Maybe once in your life it will. Hawk has to know that. But instead of saying hey Linebrink needs to pick it up, we hear how everything is BS for a week.

cub killer
07-25-2009, 02:16 AM
Say what you will about the Hawk, but when he passes, I know I'm gonna cry my eyes out (and his haters will reminisce fondly about him as if they never hated him before).

Fenway
07-25-2009, 02:50 AM
Hawk was a topic of conversation back east where fans unless they have Extra Innings never hear him as in the Northeast Tribune feeds WPIX instead of WGN to cable outlets.

A columnist in Albany takes Hawk to the woodshed

http://blog.timesunion.com/sportsmedia/2047/2047/

A friend at ESPN told me they regretted putting the Chicago feed on and wishes they had gone with Dewayne Staats on the Tampa feed.

SportCenter wound up using more replays from Tampa as they did a better job that CSN on camera.

Hawk is Hawk and he not changing. You want to hear announcers that are more homer than Hawk? Try Yankees radio and TV. Kay on TV is brutal but Sterling on radio is comical.

Nellie_Fox
07-25-2009, 03:11 AM
A columnist in Albany takes Hawk to the woodshedAnd of course, he uses Vin Scully as a comparison. I know it's sacrilege, but I find Scully to be boring as hell. Listen to a game, and it sounds like he doesn't care who wins. Once again, the other night I had a Dodgers' game on Extra Innings, and my wife commented "who is this boring guy?" I told her it was Vin, and she said "I've heard of him; I thought he was supposed to be really good."

If you like an announcer who sounds like he's absolutely neutral, Scully's your guy. I want my announcer to be a fan.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 03:38 AM
And of course, he uses Vin Scully as a comparison. I know it's sacrilege, but I find Scully to be boring as hell. Listen to a game, and it sounds like he doesn't care who wins. Once again, the other night I had a Dodgers' game on Extra Innings, and my wife commented "who is this boring guy?" I told her it was Vin, and she said "I've heard of him; I thought he was supposed to be really good."

If you like an announcer who sounds like he's absolutely neutral, Scully's your guy. I want my announcer to be a fan.
I couldn't agree with you more. Scully is the most boring announcer I have EVER heard! I don't care how much knowledge he has about the game. It sounds like he doesn't even have any passion for what he's doing. It's my belief that, if you have a passion for something, you've gotta show it! If I needed to fall asleep soon because I had something important to do the next morning, listening to Vin Scully would probably top the list of choices for me, and it would probably be even more successful than anything else, including sleeping pills.

Mohoney
07-25-2009, 05:30 AM
And of course, he uses Vin Scully as a comparison. I know it's sacrilege, but I find Scully to be boring as hell. Listen to a game, and it sounds like he doesn't care who wins. Once again, the other night I had a Dodgers' game on Extra Innings, and my wife commented "who is this boring guy?" I told her it was Vin, and she said "I've heard of him; I thought he was supposed to be really good."

If you like an announcer who sounds like he's absolutely neutral, Scully's your guy. I want my announcer to be a fan.

Hawk and Vin Scully don't belong in the same sentence together. It's not sacrelige, it's just common sense. Hawk couldn't carry Vin Scully's jock.

TornLabrum
07-25-2009, 10:10 AM
And of course, he uses Vin Scully as a comparison. I know it's sacrilege, but I find Scully to be boring as hell. Listen to a game, and it sounds like he doesn't care who wins. Once again, the other night I had a Dodgers' game on Extra Innings, and my wife commented "who is this boring guy?" I told her it was Vin, and she said "I've heard of him; I thought he was supposed to be really good."

If you like an announcer who sounds like he's absolutely neutral, Scully's your guy. I want my announcer to be a fan.

Homer announcers are a Chicago tradition. Hawk is probably the most over-the-top in that category since Jack Brickhouse.

ode to veeck
07-25-2009, 11:23 AM
Homer announcers are a Chicago tradition. Hawk is probably the most over-the-top in that category since Jack Brickhouse.

I don't mind Hawk's homerism, which as I mentioned earlier has really grown over time (he was brand new to the Sox when he arrived). Jack Brickhouse could be pretty benign at times compared say to early Harry (another strong homer). For example, I can't remember Brickhouse ever questioning an umps call, e.g. Tommy Agee out by 3 feet at home as the Mets went ahead of the Cubs in early Sept '69 (Brickhouse: "well, that's just a close play").

I just never cared for Hawk's calling of the game, which is rather mediocre at best (and often worse). I can understand the younger folks who grew up with him and also the fact that the bar for quality announcing has really dropped compared to 30 and 40 years ago. Today when you have guys way past their prime (McCarver) or just plain idiots (Buck) leading the networks, its an index of much broader gaps across the industry. Scully was a middle of the pack announcer in his prime 25 years ago, now he's often held up as a leading model. There are very few high quality baseball announcers (pbp, color, or analysts) working these days.

Hawks best days may have been working with Paciorek, who was a pretty decent booth guy, but then Hawk was somehow challenged by him and got Tom outa the picture (much to the detriment of the coverage, similar in a way to Howard Cosell's removal of his best foil, Alex Karras, early in the MNF history-with similar impact to the show's acuity due to Karras' much better knowledge of the game)

Noneck
07-25-2009, 11:46 AM
Homer announcers are a Chicago tradition. Hawk is probably the most over-the-top in that category since Jack Brickhouse.

Homers they both are but I truly think Brickhouse meant it. He was a homer for all Chicago teams, Sox, Cubs, Bulls and Bears. He was a Chicago broadcasting icon and a Chicago guy. Harrelson was a carpetbagger when he came here with Drysdale and seems to be the type to do what ever it takes to keep a job both then and now. I would have loved to see his reactions to the final out of the 04 and 05 World Series. I think that would have told the real story of who Ken Harrelson really is.

TornLabrum
07-25-2009, 12:03 PM
Homers they both are but I truly think Brickhouse meant it. He was a homer for all Chicago teams, Sox, Cubs, Bulls and Bears. He was a Chicago broadcasting icon and a Chicago guy. Harrelson was a carpetbagger when he came here with Drysdale and seems to be the type to do what ever it takes to keep a job both then and now. I would have loved to see his reactions to the final out of the 04 and 05 World Series. I think that would have told the real story of who Ken Harrelson really is.

Well, any announcer is going to root for the team that's paying him, at least if he's being paid to be a homer. (I say "he" because this is exclusively a male realm right now.)

Dave Wills is as big a Sox fan as you're going to get, but at Wednesday's luncheon he said that he wished the Sox luck "after tomorrow." He's being paid by the Rays. If by some miracle the Sox ever got some good taste in choosing their PBP announcers, I'm sure Dave's love of the Rays would be a thing of the past. That's just the way it is in sports broadcasting.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 12:03 PM
Hawk couldn't carry Vin Scully's jock.
And I believe it's the exact opposite.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 12:12 PM
Well, any announcer is going to root for the team that's paying him, at least if he's being paid to be a homer. (I say "he" because this is exclusively a male realm right now.)



I know this and Harry showed this front and center when he went to the Cubs. But most young Sox fans dont seem to realize this and think that Harrelson lives and dies like they do for the Sox. It is not like that.

Thats why I dont like to see Brickhouse (Or even Wills) mentioned in the same breath as Harrelson because they did (or would in the case of Wills) live and die like Sox fans do for "The Chicago White Sox."

shingo10
07-25-2009, 12:24 PM
I know this and Harry showed this front and center when he went to the Cubs. But most young Sox fans dont seem to realize this and think that Harrelson lives and dies like they do for the Sox. It is not like that.

Thats why I dont like to see Brickhouse (Or even Wills) mentioned in the same breath as Harrelson because they did (or would in the case of Wills) live and die like Sox fans do for "The Chicago White Sox."

Are you kidding me? You don't think Hawk lives and dies with the Sox like any other fan? That's just BS. The man takes every loss to heart. Did you see how he looked at the end of last year during the final week? He looked like he hadn't slept in a month and he characterized the worry and hope of every Sox fan during that time. The man loves the White Sox.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 12:30 PM
Are you kidding me? You don't think Hawk lives and dies with the Sox like any other fan? That's just BS. The man takes every loss to heart. Did you see how he looked at the end of last year during the final week? He looked like he hadn't slept in a month and he characterized the worry and hope of every Sox fan during that time. The man loves the White Sox.

The man has been broadcasting over a quarter of a century, he knows how to put bread on the family table. Everyone that has had a job for a long time knows, you do what you have to do.

hawkjt
07-25-2009, 12:31 PM
And I believe it's the exact opposite.


Scully never wore a jock.
Hawk does not live and die with the Sox? Give me a break.Yea, he came from Boston but the man bleeds black and white for about the last 20 years at least.

I was listening to Hawk and Stoney last nite as they went into the intricacies of the game, and I thought

A. no other play by play man in the league dissects the inside baseball world as much as Hawk.

B. Stoney has been good for Hawk..keeps him more in the present and from wandering too far afield. Subtly, when Stoney senses hawk is going on a tangent, he steers it back to the current action.

Maybe I am just an old guy, but I do like hearing about past situations or players that relate to the current team or players or situations..baseball has basically been the same game for 120 years so there is nothing really new in the game...and Hawk and Stoney can draw on those past situations to illuminate current events.

It is all subjective and a matter of personal taste but I like our current team in the booth just fine.

As for the critic from Albany...letting the moment breathe is one way to go but as someone who listened to a lot of baseball and football on the radio as a youth, I love verbal descriptions and exclamation points on huge plays and events.

Fenway
07-25-2009, 08:36 PM
Homers they both are but I truly think Brickhouse meant it. He was a homer for all Chicago teams, Sox, Cubs, Bulls and Bears. He was a Chicago broadcasting icon and a Chicago guy. Harrelson was a carpetbagger when he came here with Drysdale and seems to be the type to do what ever it takes to keep a job both then and now. I would have loved to see his reactions to the final out of the 04 and 05 World Series. I think that would have told the real story of who Ken Harrelson really is.

I have know Hawk since 1975 when we both started with a UHF station in Boston that was going to change the way TV covered the Red Sox. WSBK put up over a million dollars to get the rights away from WBZ-TV and would start fresh using the same approach that worked so well with the Bruins.

Dick Stockton would do play by play and Hawk color and Ken was a breath of fresh air as he was candid and sometimes harsh. Slowly Stockton had him do an inning here and there of play by play. When Stockton left for CBS after 1978 WSBK hired Ned Martin who had been fired by WITS radio. Hawk's use of Mercy is a tribute to Ned.

Hawk was really hard on the Red Sox as he was on Don Zimmer's case every game and helped get Zimmer fired. But then Boston co-owner Haywood Sullivan hired Ralph Houk to manage and then let Carlton Fisk escape as a free agent to clear the way for Sullivan to make his son the catcher. Hawk just went after Sullivan and Mrs. Yawkey and finally called Sullivan an idiot at the writers dinner in 1981 and Mrs Yawkey told WSBK to fire him. Enter Eddie Einhorn who needed to replace Piersall and Harry.

Hawk wanted to be a GM to show he was smarter than Haywood and Einhorn allowed it to happen. JR was still in the background then.

Of course Hawk as GM was a disaster and he wound up doing Yankees TV and was fired for being candid about Steinbrenner.

JR took him back but you have to assume Hawk was told to behave and be a house man. Hawk knew he was looking at strike 3.

Hawk still loves Boston and the Red Sox and he was thrilled about 2004. However I know he was thrilled when the White Sox eliminated Boston in 2005.

Daver
07-25-2009, 08:45 PM
And I believe it's the exact opposite.

On his best day Ken Harrelson wishes he had even half the talent Vin Scully has.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 08:50 PM
Hawk still loves Boston and the Red Sox and he was thrilled about 2004. However I know he was thrilled when the White Sox eliminated Boston in 2005.

And if he had the opportunity at same perks to have a lifetime contract with either the red or White Sox, which do you think he would take?

My question is as of today, not at the beginning of his career.

eastchicagosoxfan
07-25-2009, 09:23 PM
I don't mind Hawk's homerism, which as I mentioned earlier has really grown over time (he was brand new to the Sox when he arrived). Jack Brickhouse could be pretty benign at times compared say to early Harry (another strong homer). For example, I can't remember Brickhouse ever questioning an umps call, e.g. Tommy Agee out by 3 feet at home as the Mets went ahead of the Cubs in early Sept '69 (Brickhouse: "well, that's just a close play").

I just never cared for Hawk's calling of the game, which is rather mediocre at best (and often worse). I can understand the younger folks who grew up with him and also the fact that the bar for quality announcing has really dropped compared to 30 and 40 years ago. Today when you have guys way past their prime (McCarver) or just plain idiots (Buck) leading the networks, its an index of much broader gaps across the industry. Scully was a middle of the pack announcer in his prime 25 years ago, now he's often held up as a leading model. There are very few high quality baseball announcers (pbp, color, or analysts) working these days.

Hawks best days may have been working with Paciorek, who was a pretty decent booth guy, but then Hawk was somehow challenged by him and got Tom outa the picture (much to the detriment of the coverage, similar in a way to Howard Cosell's removal of his best foil, Alex Karras, early in the MNF history-with similar impact to the show's acuity due to Karras' much better knowledge of the game)
Good stuff.

Fenway
07-25-2009, 09:47 PM
And if he had the opportunity at same perks to have a lifetime contract with either the red or White Sox, which do you think he would take?

My question is as of today, not at the beginning of his career.
Of course Hawk would pick the White Sox as he owes JR everything for a second chance.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 09:51 PM
Of course Hawk would pick the White Sox as he owes JR everything for a second chance.

Are you saying he is a loyal man? Or that he now bleeds White rather than red?

kba
07-25-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't know, I like hawk at times, and hate him at times. Sometimes its great to hear a big play called with emotion like Wise's catch. However, I could have lived without 5 YES'S called after the perfecto. That would have been a great spot for a really well thought out summation of Buehrle's accomplishment.


Agreed. I'm not a Hawk hater, and I think the telecasts are really entertaining this year with him and Stone. They're two bright guys who really know the game.

But when you're calling something as historic as a perfect game, you need to put some thought into what you're going to say after the 27th out. A lot of announcers would have scribbled a few notes during the break before the ninth inning. Some might have kept quiet and let the pictures tell the story. A few very talented ones (like Scully, or Harry in his younger days) might have been able to ad-lib something memorable.

But if the best you can come up with is repeatedly shouting, "Yes," you probably should have thought about it a little more.

MARTINMVP
07-26-2009, 11:53 PM
There is a lot of bad bland announcing these days. Hawk is the ultimate refresher so I'll be sad the day he is no longer calling Sox games.

Reinsdorf seems to have a knack for bad announcers, and I am fearful that when Hawk is not the Sox TV guy, they will assign that role to Ed Farmer or hire some lame boring guy.

chisoxfanatic
07-26-2009, 11:57 PM
Once Hawk is done, the Sox should do the right thing and hire RedPinStripes. Maury's work with Sox And Roll was some good entertainment.

ode to veeck
07-27-2009, 12:05 AM
Once Hawk is done, the Sox should do the right thing and hire RedPinStripes. Maury's work with Sox And Roll was some good entertainment.

ding ding ding we have a winner

MARTINMVP
07-27-2009, 12:08 AM
Mentioned earlier, but I would always welcome Dave Wills back with open arms.

ode to veeck
07-27-2009, 12:11 AM
btw espn's sunday crw was a refreshing break from Hawk imho

hi im skot
07-27-2009, 12:25 AM
btw espn's sunday crw was a refreshing break from Hawk imho

We caught a break not having Joe Morgan in the booth tonight.

ode to veeck
07-27-2009, 12:28 AM
We caught a break not having Joe Morgan in the booth tonight.

for sure ... thank goodness, he ruins an otherwise very capable crew and is a nightmare when he battles with a 2nd color guy when they have one