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AzureJazzMan
06-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Since it is a pretty hot topic at the moment...

IF Kenny decides to blow up this team and still stay competitive, I can think of 2 teams for sure, that have needs we can fill, all the while getting a good return with "major league ready" talent.

Those two teams are The Reds and the Rangers.

To the Reds: Dye and Dotel

From the Reds: Homer Bailey (SP) + Norris Hopper (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Norris%20Hopper&pos=&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=440361) (OF) + Pedro Viola (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Pedro%20Viola&pos=P&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=501638) (RP)

______________________________________________

To the Rangers: Linebrink and Jenks

From the Rangers: David Murphy (OF) + Beau Vaughn (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Beau%20Vaughan&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=459409) (RP) + A.J. Murray (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=A.J.%20Murray&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=451262) (RP)

I'd like Madrigal from their Minor League system, but, I just don't see them giving him up.

GregO23
06-11-2009, 06:40 PM
Since it is a pretty hot topic at the moment...

IF Kenny decides to blow up this team and still stay competitive, I can think of 2 teams for sure, that have needs we can fill, all the while getting a good return with "major league ready" talent.

Those two teams are The Reds and the Rangers.

To the Reds: Dye and Dotel

From the Reds: Homer Bailey (SP) + Norris Hopper (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Norris%20Hopper&pos=&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=440361) (OF) + Pedro Viola (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Pedro%20Viola&pos=P&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=501638) (RP)

______________________________________________

To the Rangers: Linebrink and Jenks

From the Rangers: David Murphy (OF) + Beau Vaughn (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Beau%20Vaughan&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=459409) (RP) + A.J. Murray (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=A.J.%20Murray&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=451262) (RP)

I'd like Madrigal from their Minor League system, but, I just don't see them giving him up.

No thanks for either of those trades.

Craig Grebeck
06-11-2009, 07:28 PM
Holy **** these are the worst trades ever.

rdwj
06-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Since it is a pretty hot topic at the moment...

IF Kenny decides to blow up this team and still stay competitive, I can think of 2 teams for sure, that have needs we can fill, all the while getting a good return with "major league ready" talent.

Those two teams are The Reds and the Rangers.

To the Reds: Dye and Dotel

From the Reds: Homer Bailey (SP) + Norris Hopper (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Norris%20Hopper&pos=&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=440361) (OF) + Pedro Viola (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Pedro%20Viola&pos=P&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=501638) (RP)

______________________________________________

To the Rangers: Linebrink and Jenks

From the Rangers: David Murphy (OF) + Beau Vaughn (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Beau%20Vaughan&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=459409) (RP) + A.J. Murray (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=A.J.%20Murray&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=451262) (RP)

I'd like Madrigal from their Minor League system, but, I just don't see them giving him up.

If you're trying to build the worst Sox team in my lifetime, that's a pretty nice start.

35th and Shields
06-11-2009, 08:03 PM
Since it is a pretty hot topic at the moment...

IF Kenny decides to blow up this team and still stay competitive, I can think of 2 teams for sure, that have needs we can fill, all the while getting a good return with "major league ready" talent.

Those two teams are The Reds and the Rangers.

To the Reds: Dye and Dotel

From the Reds: Homer Bailey (SP) + Norris Hopper (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Norris%20Hopper&pos=&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=440361) (OF) + Pedro Viola (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Pedro%20Viola&pos=P&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=501638) (RP)

______________________________________________

To the Rangers: Linebrink and Jenks

From the Rangers: David Murphy (OF) + Beau Vaughn (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Beau%20Vaughan&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=459409) (RP) + A.J. Murray (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=A.J.%20Murray&pos=P&sid=t238&t=p_pbp&pid=451262) (RP)

I'd like Madrigal from their Minor League system, but, I just don't see them giving him up.

How would this keep us competitive?

I really really hope we keep Dye around next year. We don't have anyone we could sign or bring up with numbers even close to Dye.

veeter
06-11-2009, 08:36 PM
How would this keep us competitive?

I really really hope we keep Dye around next year. We don't have anyone we could sign or bring up with numbers even close to Dye.I agree. Heck I want them to extend JD and make him our part time RF and DH. WE would miss him terribly.

AzureJazzMan
06-11-2009, 09:37 PM
Holy **** these are the worst trades ever.

If you're trying to build the worst Sox team in my lifetime, that's a pretty nice start.

Way to be constructive and get a dialog going...The goal was to hear additional ideas, and converse with other folks what possibilities were out there.

As I stated at the beginning of this post, "IF Kenny decides to blow up this team" I named two teams and what they would want from us.

I took into account money, and what the other teams might be willing to realistically part with.

The Dye/Bailey trade almost went down before, and if KW was going to sell off pieces of this team with value, it would make sense to revisit this one, seeing as the need is still there for the Reds. Additionally, the Reds looked at Dotel back when he was a free agent, before the Sox got him here, and they need RP that is ready now

Bailey could use a Gavin Floyd type makeover with a new team, and wind up being a very good pick up...Hopper is younger than Wise and Pods, fills the OF need for speed, defense, and makes good contact with some power. He is a good contingency plan as a 4th OF, and would certainly be a serviceable starter... Viola has a shown a lot of promise and could be a solid reliever.

The Rangers are desperate for arms (hell, they just signed El Duque, if that's not desperate) and Linebrink gives them the solid set up man they need. Their closer situation is nearly as bad with their guy on and off the DL so often, which is why they would need Jenks...

The return of David Murphy is a huge coup. He is a stud OF who is about to his his stride, he would help with the loss of Dye's offense, with even better speed, and defense... With regard to A.J. Murray, all he needs is the stability in knowing that he'll be a starter or reliever. He's had success as both at each level of the minors... Beau Vaughn is another reliever with lots of upside and shows a lot of poise on the mound. He isn't rattled easily and knows how to pitch, plus he appears to be a guy who would fit right in with this team, in reading his blog at http://rangersprospect.mlblogs.com/.

tm1119
06-11-2009, 09:47 PM
I think the Mets might be our best partner to trade with right now. I really dont think they are gonna settle for another 2nd place finish this year, and their GM and coach are both most likely fired if they do finish 2nd. They could get desperate as the deadline approaches. Remember this is a team that traded Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
Putz just went down and bullpen is our strong point. Not sure if they would try and get Jenks from us, but Dotel seems like an ideal fit for them.
Delgado is also hurt and Paulie would a great fit for them there. Doubt Paulie would actually accept a trade there though. But if he would go to NY there could potentially be some nice pieces coming back to us if Paulie would agree to go there.

Konerko and Dotel for F-Mart and Niese?

Craig Grebeck
06-11-2009, 09:53 PM
Way to be constructive and get a dialog going...The goal was to hear additional ideas, and converse with other folks what possibilities were out there.

As I stated at the beginning of this post, "IF Kenny decides to blow up this team" I named two teams and what they would want from us.

I took into account money, and what the other teams might be willing to realistically part with.

The Dye/Bailey trade almost went down before, and if KW was going to sell off pieces of this team with value, it would make sense to revisit this one, seeing as the need is still there for the Reds. Additionally, the Reds looked at Dotel back when he was a free agent, before the Sox got him here, and they need RP that is ready now

Bailey could use a Gavin Floyd type makeover with a new team, and wind up being a very good pick up...Hopper is younger than Wise and Pods, fills the OF need for speed, defense, and makes good contact with some power. He is a good contingency plan as a 4th OF, and would certainly be a serviceable starter... Viola has a shown a lot of promise and could be a solid reliever.

The Rangers are desperate for arms (hell, they just signed El Duque, if that's not desperate) and Linebrink gives them the solid set up man they need. Their closer situation is nearly as bad with their guy on and off the DL so often, which is why they would need Jenks...

The return of David Murphy is a huge coup. He is a stud OF who is about to his his stride, he would help with the loss of Dye's offense, with even better speed, and defense... With regard to A.J. Murray, all he needs is the stability in knowing that he'll be a starter or reliever. He's had success as both at each level of the minors... Beau Vaughn is another reliever with lots of upside and shows a lot of poise on the mound. He isn't rattled easily and knows how to pitch, plus he appears to be a guy who would fit right in with this team, in reading his blog at http://rangersprospect.mlblogs.com/.
1. Norris Hopper is in no way, shape, or form a serviceable starter on a major league ballclub.
2. Murphy is as unimpressive as it gets. I have no idea what you see here.
3. You're trading a very known commodity in Jenks for a pile of ****. That should be a package similar to what we seek for just Dotel.

Craig Grebeck
06-11-2009, 09:54 PM
I think the Mets might be our best partner to trade with right now. I really dont think they are gonna settle for another 2nd place finish this year, and their GM and coach are both most likely fired if they do finish 2nd. They could get desperate as the deadline approaches. Remember this is a team that traded Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
Putz just went down and bullpen is our strong point. Not sure if they would try and get Jenks from us, but Dotel seems like an ideal fit for them.
Delgado is also hurt and Paulie would a great fit for them there. Doubt Paulie would actually accept a trade there though. But if he would go to NY there could potentially be some nice pieces coming back to us if Paulie would agree to go there.

Konerko and Dotel for F-Mart and Niese?
Sweet. An injured Paul Konerko for their best positional and pitching prospect!

tm1119
06-11-2009, 10:43 PM
Sweet. An injured Paul Konerko for their best positional and pitching prospect!

The bill is still out on how injured PK really is, and obviously there are tests before trades go through to see how healthy a player is. And Niese has a 7 ERA in AAA through 44 innings. He hasnt look too stellar in his first few showings in the bigs either. Im sure they would be willing to part with him. He isnt their best pitching prospect anyway. Brad Holt is.

kitekrazy
06-11-2009, 10:45 PM
IF Kenny decides to blow up this team and still stay competitive

Kenny already blew this whole thing up in the offseason.

Replaced Crede, Uribe with Fields. (minus)
Replaced Cabrera with Rodriguez. (minus)
Replaced Vasquez with Colon/Contreras (even)
Got rid of Swisher for Betemit (minus even though I have no idea how the prospects are doing)


And you want Kenny to blow it up some more?

Javy is a decent 4th or 5th starter.
Cabrera better fielding SS plus could lead off.
Uribe, Crede had great gloves. I'd take Uribe's bat over Fields.
Betemit made costly mistakes.

I'd rather Kenny not do a thing and let this team lose 90 games. There are no mid season trades that will make this team a WS contender.

You trade anyone on the team of value like Dye or Jenks then you have to find some way of replacing their production. Losing teams don't get immediate value from mid season trades.

Don't try corking any holes with this Titannic. Let it sink, unless you want to take pleasure in seeing a team that has a chance at the division but a quick exit in the post season. That should be reserved for Cub fans and NOT a fan of a team who won a World Series convincingly not too long ago.

tm1119
06-11-2009, 10:56 PM
Kenny already blew this whole thing up in the offseason.

Replaced Crede, Uribe with Fields. (minus)
Replaced Cabrera with Rodriguez. (minus)
Replaced Vasquez with Colon/Contreras (even)
Got rid of Swisher for Betemit (minus even though I have no idea how the prospects are doing)


And you want Kenny to blow it up some more?

Javy is a decent 4th or 5th starter.
Cabrera better fielding SS plus could lead off.
Uribe, Crede had great gloves. I'd take Uribe's bat over Fields.
Betemit made costly mistakes.

I'd rather Kenny not do a thing and let this team lose 90 games. There are no mid season trades that will make this team a WS contender.

You trade anyone on the team of value like Dye or Jenks then you have to find some way of replacing their production. Losing teams don't get immediate value from mid season trades.

Don't try corking any holes with this Titannic. Let it sink, unless you want to take pleasure in seeing a team that has a chance at the division but a quick exit in the post season. That should be reserved for Cub fans and NOT a fan of a team who won a World Series convincingly not too long ago.

Im pretty sure blowing up a team consists of rebuilding it. Not doing a thing is kinda stupid just because we have FA's that are gonna walk reagardless, so why not trade them for something? Dye and Dotel at the least should be traded for prospects because Im pretty sure neither will be a type A free agent.

Craig Grebeck
06-12-2009, 01:15 AM
The bill is still out on how injured PK really is, and obviously there are tests before trades go through to see how healthy a player is. And Niese has a 7 ERA in AAA through 44 innings. He hasnt look too stellar in his first few showings in the bigs either. Im sure they would be willing to part with him. He isnt their best pitching prospect anyway. Brad Holt is.
Let me augment my statement then.

Sweet. An injured Konerko for their best prospect. Omar Minaya will be doing cartwheels!

AzureJazzMan
06-12-2009, 01:51 AM
Let me augment my statement then.

Sweet. An injured Konerko for their best prospect. Omar Minaya will be doing cartwheels!


So, what you're saying CG, is that you are void of anything but an unfounded pithy comment? Why am I not surprised. Seriously, why even bother chipping in your text? Are you that bored or lonely? It certainly couldn't be because you have anything constructive to add, because if you did it would probably be the first time.

You see, I've actually seen the guys I've suggested in person. Have you?

AzureJazzMan
06-12-2009, 02:08 AM
I think the Mets might be our best partner to trade with right now. I really dont think they are gonna settle for another 2nd place finish this year, and their GM and coach are both most likely fired if they do finish 2nd. They could get desperate as the deadline approaches. Remember this is a team that traded Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
Putz just went down and bullpen is our strong point. Not sure if they would try and get Jenks from us, but Dotel seems like an ideal fit for them.
Delgado is also hurt and Paulie would a great fit for them there. Doubt Paulie would actually accept a trade there though. But if he would go to NY there could potentially be some nice pieces coming back to us if Paulie would agree to go there.

Konerko and Dotel for F-Mart and Niese?

The Mets, are an interesting trade partner...I'd think them to be in the same boat as us. But, if they are willing to deal there are a few guys in their system that would be of interest. Though, I also would be concerned with Paulie's NTC and him agreeing to go to NY. Have they ever listed his "preferred" destinations, or is just assumed that he would go to Anaheim or Arizona?

In addition to Dotel, they might also have interest in Thornton, though he would be the de facto closer if Jenks is moved, right? Or would they go with another guy?

Red Barchetta
06-12-2009, 08:55 AM
How would this keep us competitive?

I really really hope we keep Dye around next year. We don't have anyone we could sign or bring up with numbers even close to Dye.

I agree. The guy has consistently performed for us and although I don't live in the past, I would love to see our WS MVP retire as a SOX. He could easily move into a DH role when the time comes.

cards press box
06-12-2009, 09:13 AM
I wouldn't expect KW to break up this team if they remain within striking distance of the division (say, e.g., within 8 games of 1st place) by the end of July. To date, the Sox have gone through a couple of horrendous bad streaks and, yet, are only 5 and 1/2 out of 1st and are in 3rd plcae. And the 2nd place Twins are only 1 and 1/2 games ahead of the Sox (only 1 game in the loss column). What's more, the Sox seem to be making some course corrections with the additions of Beckham and Poreda.

The division just isn't that good and no team (inlcuding the Tigers) seems poised to break away. As a result, I expect KW to make additions from within (i.e. Beckham and Poreda) and maybe a few minor moves. I just don't see the Sox waving the white flag this year.

tm1119
06-12-2009, 11:56 AM
I agree. The guy has consistently performed for us and although I don't live in the past, I would love to see our WS MVP retire as a SOX. He could easily move into a DH role when the time comes.

Remember that JD has a 12mil option for next season that more than likely would not be picked up by any team. So he becomes a free agent that we could easily sign to a 1 or 2 year deal to bring back as a DH. Getting nothing for our FA's is just stupid, even if all we can get is a few low level prospects.

voodoochile
06-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Remember that JD has a 12mil option for next season that more than likely would not be picked up by any team. So he becomes a free agent that we could easily sign to a 1 or 2 year deal to bring back as a DH. Getting nothing for our FA's is just stupid, even if all we can get is a few low level prospects.

That's nuts. No way JD signs for that little money, besides, once the Sox cancel the option, can they still negotiate with him?

Edit: NM, I misread the post as 1-2M not 1-2 years.

102605
06-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Remember that JD has a 12mil option for next season that more than likely would not be picked up by any team. So he becomes a free agent that we could easily sign to a 1 or 2 year deal to bring back as a DH. Getting nothing for our FA's is just stupid, even if all we can get is a few low level prospects.

Dye is playing a Gold Glove RF this season. There is no way he should be a DH yet next year unless there is significant decline.

WhiteSoxFTW
06-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Dye is playing a Gold Glove RF this season. There is no way he should be a DH yet next year unless there is significant decline.

Gold Glove typically goes the the best fielder in a position out of the best hitters in that position. In that regards, he may be. In reality, he is not a top defensive RF.

mantis1212
06-12-2009, 12:36 PM
I don't understand trading Dye at all. He's basically our most valuable hitter. I'm not against sacrificing 2009 for long-term inprovement, but trading Dye also sacrifices 2010, and unless you are replacing Dye's production somehow, that's what you'd be doing.

Unless of course, you replace his production somehow. But since you'd have to use free agency for that most likely, what's the point?

THe only real moves to make are THome (which is unlikely) and bullpen moves.

I think selling high with bullpen guys is a good move, however, since year-to-year bullpens seem to be a crapshoot.

sean
06-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Remember that JD has a 12mil option for next season that more than likely would not be picked up by any team. So he becomes a free agent that we could easily sign to a 1 or 2 year deal to bring back as a DH. Getting nothing for our FA's is just stupid, even if all we can get is a few low level prospects.

Agreed. It seems like with the economy the way it is teams aren't going to be going after high cost players unless the return is minimal. There's no real need to dump JD for the rest of this year's salary if the only return the Sox will get is Jerry Owens revisited. You might as well keep him under your control and get him signed for another 2 years. That way you at least have one productive veteran here while this team (hopefully) starts going young. They might as well take the chance and if he decides to sign elsewhere after the Sox reject the option, hopefully get some draft picks (assuming he'd be a type A or B free agent).

That said, IMO the guys with the best value on this team are in the bullpen. If you're gonna trade guys, I would think those guys will bring back the most.

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2009, 10:27 AM
Here's a deeppink thought: With the economy in the crapper, and Boston and NY dominating the NL East, anyone think the Rays would decline to pick up Crawford's option this offseason? Get on the phone, Kenny!
:D:

russ99
06-13-2009, 10:34 PM
Way to be constructive and get a dialog going...The goal was to hear additional ideas, and converse with other folks what possibilities were out there.

As I stated at the beginning of this post, "IF Kenny decides to blow up this team" I named two teams and what they would want from us.

I took into account money, and what the other teams might be willing to realistically part with.

The Dye/Bailey trade almost went down before, and if KW was going to sell off pieces of this team with value, it would make sense to revisit this one, seeing as the need is still there for the Reds. Additionally, the Reds looked at Dotel back when he was a free agent, before the Sox got him here, and they need RP that is ready now

Bailey could use a Gavin Floyd type makeover with a new team, and wind up being a very good pick up...Hopper is younger than Wise and Pods, fills the OF need for speed, defense, and makes good contact with some power. He is a good contingency plan as a 4th OF, and would certainly be a serviceable starter... Viola has a shown a lot of promise and could be a solid reliever.

The Rangers are desperate for arms (hell, they just signed El Duque, if that's not desperate) and Linebrink gives them the solid set up man they need. Their closer situation is nearly as bad with their guy on and off the DL so often, which is why they would need Jenks...

The return of David Murphy is a huge coup. He is a stud OF who is about to his his stride, he would help with the loss of Dye's offense, with even better speed, and defense... With regard to A.J. Murray, all he needs is the stability in knowing that he'll be a starter or reliever. He's had success as both at each level of the minors... Beau Vaughn is another reliever with lots of upside and shows a lot of poise on the mound. He isn't rattled easily and knows how to pitch, plus he appears to be a guy who would fit right in with this team, in reading his blog at http://rangersprospect.mlblogs.com/.

Acquiring Homer Bailey was a bad idea before, and even a worse one now since he's regressed even more than last year.

But as bad as a trade that was before, I doubt we'll get as much as Bailey, Hopper and a prospect for Dye right now, since he older and has that pesky option to pay off at the end of the season.

Dotel for Hopper could fly, though...

UChicagoHP
06-14-2009, 12:19 PM
Dye or Konerko is the DH of the future, the other one will be dealt at this year's deadline. The Sox will not receive an elite prospect for either player, but a conteding team will part with talent that has some potential for both.

Dotel/Jenks/Linebrink can all bring in a hefty return, again, not an elite prospect, but decent young talent. I do believe it's in Chicago's best interests to trade Jenks before he gets his big contract, as I don't believe fat closers have a long shelf life, but I could be wrong.