PDA

View Full Version : So What's Your Plan?


voodoochile
06-10-2009, 11:36 PM
I'm reading all these posts that call for busting up the team, but to me it doesn't look like a fully formed idea so I'd like to see what people want to do. I'm even offering a poll with a few choices though I'm sure people will complain about those too...

DaveFeelsRight
06-10-2009, 11:42 PM
i pick option #2 and #5

voodoochile
06-10-2009, 11:44 PM
i pick option #2 and #5

Sorry, multiple choices not allowed, pick the one that best fits your plan...

ramblinsoxfan11
06-10-2009, 11:48 PM
I think right now the Sox only have one option.... bring back the Big Hurt!!

:hurt
Here I come to save the day!

Lip Man 1
06-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Voodoo:

There are two options for 2010 but I'll start with the rest of this season first.

Bring up as many kids as possible now in a non pressure environment and see what if anything they can do. People like Allen, Shelby, Jordon Danks for example. If individual ticket sales fall off the face of the Earth the rest of the season, so be it.

At least Kenny will have some idea of who he may be able to count on in 2010 if needed.

Regarding his potential free agents. Get anything you can for Contreras and Thome but by hook or by crook they need to go.

Regarding Dye and Dotel, that depends on what Kenny hears from ownership. If they allow him to go out in the off season and get the talent this franchise so badly needs, then by all means try to re-sign them both. They are still contributing and will be needed next year.

If however ownership is still more concerned about lost revenue from expiring advertising deals then winning and won't allow him that option, then you deal them both.

As far as the off season it is my hope that ownership will be embarrassed enough by two awful seasons out of the last three to say that if they don't do something to entice advertisers and fans in a difficult economic situation, they won't have a lot of either and will let Kenny do what he needs to do. In that case Kenny is still Kenny and will find a way to bolster the talent base with experienced, productive veterans, mixed in with one or two of his kids who can actually play.

If Kenny is not allowed this leeway then I'd hope the organization would have enough respect for the fan base and their intelligence to say, 'we're rebuilding...period' and take whatever fallout takes place from it.

The Sox right now have no identity...are they a contender? are they rebuilding?

Pick one or the other and act accordingly.

An unproductive farm system for a decade, coupled with a payroll slash makes doing a little of both, very difficult. In fact I'll go so far as to say it can't be done. It has to be a full commitment, one way or the other.

Lip

russ99
06-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Voodoo:

There are two options for 2010 but I'll start with the rest of this season first.

Bring up as many kids as possible now in a non pressure environment and see what if anything they can do. People like Allen, Shelby, Jordon Danks for example. If individual ticket sales fall off the face of the Earth the rest of the season, so be it.

At least Kenny will have some idea of who he may be able to count on in 2010 if needed.

Regarding his potential free agents. Get anything you can for Contreras and Thome but by hook or by crook they need to go.

Regarding Dye and Dotel, that depends on what Kenny hears from ownership. If they allow him to go out in the off season and get the talent this franchise so badly needs, then by all means try to re-sign them both. They are still contributing and will be needed next year.

If however ownership is still more concerned about lost revenue from expiring advertising deals then winning and won't allow him that option, then you deal them both.

As far as the off season it is my hope that ownership will be embarrassed enough by two awful seasons out of the last three to say that if they don't do something to entice advertisers and fans in a difficult economic situation, they won't have a lot of either and will let Kenny do what he needs to do. In that case Kenny is still Kenny and will find a way to bolster the talent base with experienced, productive veterans, mixed in with one or two of his kids who can actually play.

If Kenny is not allowed this leeway then I'd hope the organization would have enough respect for the fan base and their intelligence to say, 'we're rebuilding...period' and take whatever fallout takes place from it.

The Sox right now have no identity...are they a contender? are they rebuilding?

Pick one or the other and act accordingly.

An unproductive farm system for a decade, coupled with a payroll slash makes doing a little of both, very difficult. In fact I'll go so far as to say it can't be done. It has to be a full commitment, one way or the other.

Lip

Good post, as usual, Lip. :D:

But I think Dye will have lukewarm trade interest due to his age and that he has a option for next year to buy out. So Kenny would have the decision to get rid of him for less of a return than expected, or take his chances that Dye can come back next year after the option is declined.

Besides, if the Sox want to make an impact deal for prospects, the guy to trade before the deadline is Jenks.

Maybe it was a blessing in disguise that Peavy didn't come here...

gobears1987
06-10-2009, 11:54 PM
I like the deep pink option of trading **** for gold. Of course it's all in this color

JB98
06-10-2009, 11:54 PM
No. 2.

Keep Dye. We need him to be the DH next year. Trade Thome, if some AL team decides it needs a DH. Give away Fields. He's not the answer to anything.

Put Jenks and Dotel on the market. Sell high on Jenks. Make Thornton the closer. All contenders need bullpen help, and the Sox can probably get a decent return.

See what happens with Contreras the next few starts. Pray he's effective enough that someone will give a mid-level prospect for him. Cut Colon. He's done. Leave Richard in the rotation and see if he solidifies himself as a No. 4 or No. 5 starter.

Try to find a young 3B and young OF in any deal. Move Ramirez to CF. Put Beckham at SS where he belongs. Keep fingers crossed that Getz develops and becomes the long-term solution at 2B.

Find out whether Poreda is a starter or a reliever before 2009 is over. Address holes in the pitching staff through free agency during the offseason.

voodoochile
06-10-2009, 11:55 PM
I'll now post my ideas...

Keep Dye unless someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Pick up his extension and let him split time next year between RF and DH.

Don't trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, TCQ, Beckham, TCM or Jenks. I'll add Carasco to this list as I think he's going to be a solid reliever for the next few years at least.

Only trade PK if you get a really good offer and have a plan to fill 1B next year with another middle of the order bat.

Linebrink shouldn't be moved unless there's a solid offer. He's a good late inning reliever and the team will already have to replace Dotel at the end of the year.

Try to package some group of prospects for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

Don't bring up any prospects unless they are ready to play major league ball. Giving them a taste because they are the only option available or to allow them to develop up here is simply a bad idea.

If you can get anything solid for Thome, Wise, BA, Getz, Fields, Colon or Contreras, take it. Otherwise, keep them and hope the team catches lightning in a bottle when TCQ and PK come back.

For next year, look to spend the money from Contreras and Thome to acquire a 2B/3B depending on where Beckham ends up and a CF. Then the team still needs a #4 pitcher unless they acquired one this year as suggested above and then Richard and Poreda can duke it out for the 5th slot. Richard already looks like a #5 starter with another year, he should be fine I would think.

I'll probably think of more later...

DSpivack
06-11-2009, 12:04 AM
I'll now post my ideas...

Keep Dye unless someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Pick up his extension and let him split time next year between RF and DH.

Don't trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, TCQ, Beckham, TCM or Jenks. I'll add Carasco to this list as I think he's going to be a solid reliever for the next few years at least.

Only trade PK if you get a really good offer and have a plan to fill 1B next year with another middle of the order bat.

Linebrink shouldn't be moved unless there's a solid offer. He's a good late inning reliever and the team will already have to replace Dotel at the end of the year.

Try to package some group of prospects for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

Don't bring up any prospects unless they are ready to play major league ball. Giving them a taste because they are the only option available or to allow them to develop up here is simply a bad idea.

If you can get anything solid for Thome, Wise, BA, Getz, Fields, Colon or Contreras, take it. Otherwise, keep them and hope the team catches lightning in a bottle when TCQ and PK come back.

For next year, look to spend the money from Contreras and Thome to acquire a 2B/3B depending on where Beckham ends up and a CF. Then the team still needs a #4 pitcher unless they acquired one this year as suggested above and then Richard and Poreda can duke it out for the 5th slot. Richard already looks like a #5 starter with another year, he should be fine I would think.

I'll probably think of more later...

I agree with all of this.

I voted for option #2 but also agree with #7.

BleacherBandit
06-11-2009, 12:07 AM
I picked #2 although I don't like the wording. This team doesn't need "tweaking", it needs alot more than that. Possibly years of preparation of prospects and collection of other players. But we can't overhaul it just yet, becuase we won't get what we want in return for players like Dye and Jenks, in my opinion. You can't go with a fire sale, that never helps.

JB98
06-11-2009, 12:13 AM
I picked #2 although I don't like the wording. This team doesn't need "tweaking", it needs alot more than that. Possibly years of preparation of prospects and collection of other players. But we can't overhaul it just yet, becuase we won't get what we want in return for players like Dye and Jenks, in my opinion. You can't go with a fire sale, that never helps.

You don't think we can get a lot for Jenks? He's relatively cheap and good, and he's closed games in the playoffs. He's still a couple years away from free agency. He could put a contending team over the top this year.

We have another dominant reliever (Thornton) who could take his place, and I think we might be able to get two and possibly three players in return that could help us.

Of course, if KW puts Jenks out there and gets lowballed, then **** it. You hold on to him in that case. But I think Bobby might be a real valuable commodity for a team that's in the pennant race this year.

voodoochile
06-11-2009, 12:13 AM
Voodoo:

There are two options for 2010 but I'll start with the rest of this season first.

Bring up as many kids as possible now in a non pressure environment and see what if anything they can do. People like Allen, Shelby, Jordon Danks for example. If individual ticket sales fall off the face of the Earth the rest of the season, so be it.

At least Kenny will have some idea of who he may be able to count on in 2010 if needed.

Regarding his potential free agents. Get anything you can for Contreras and Thome but by hook or by crook they need to go.

Regarding Dye and Dotel, that depends on what Kenny hears from ownership. If they allow him to go out in the off season and get the talent this franchise so badly needs, then by all means try to re-sign them both. They are still contributing and will be needed next year.

If however ownership is still more concerned about lost revenue from expiring advertising deals then winning and won't allow him that option, then you deal them both.

As far as the off season it is my hope that ownership will be embarrassed enough by two awful seasons out of the last three to say that if they don't do something to entice advertisers and fans in a difficult economic situation, they won't have a lot of either and will let Kenny do what he needs to do. In that case Kenny is still Kenny and will find a way to bolster the talent base with experienced, productive veterans, mixed in with one or two of his kids who can actually play.

If Kenny is not allowed this leeway then I'd hope the organization would have enough respect for the fan base and their intelligence to say, 'we're rebuilding...period' and take whatever fallout takes place from it.

The Sox right now have no identity...are they a contender? are they rebuilding?

Pick one or the other and act accordingly.

An unproductive farm system for a decade, coupled with a payroll slash makes doing a little of both, very difficult. In fact I'll go so far as to say it can't be done. It has to be a full commitment, one way or the other.

Lip

Good points. I don't expect to see a major drop off in the payroll next year, but it will depend on how well attendance does this year. A few weeks ago, Kenny obviously had authorization to add $15M in payroll to acquire Peavy so things aren't as tight as they might seem. With $30M coming off the books next year (not counting Dye) the Sox should be able to spend in the FA market one would think.

I don't favor bringing up kids just to see them play. A few good months at AA ball doesn't mean they are ready to face major league pitching and watching Beckham (the best prospect in the system) get off to a slow start should reinforce that fact. Any player they bring up needs to be ready according to the people who make those decisions, not simply to see how they handle the majors because if they aren't ready, they won't succeed, period and all that will happen is their development cycle will be interrupted or destroyed altogether.

What's the point of dumping Contreras and Thome? There has to be something positive to gain from doing it. I don't see it other than saved cash. It's not worth it to get AAAA players. If you can get legitimate prospects for them, even low level ones, fine, but if not, ride them as far as you can and hope for the best. More farm fodder just isn't worth acquiring.

As I said, I expect Dotel to be gone. I hope Dye comes back.

The identity thing will as usual come down to pitching for the most part. So long as they have 4 solid starters and something that won't completely blow in the 5th slot they can build a team around them. Buehrle, Danks and Floyd obviously give them 3 of those starters. Thornton, Danks and Linebrink (Carrasco too?) give them a solid back end of the bullpen this is next year I am talking about and that's before anything else happens. Fill a couple of those missing slots (does Richard count? What about Poreda?) now and obviously it would be silly to go with a complete youth movement at the field and offensive positions. You'd just be wasting a pitching window and those don't come along all that often.

Good insight as usual, Lip...

russ99
06-11-2009, 12:13 AM
I really can't get a feeler for the direction the team will go in if the season is indeed a lost cause. Kenny probably won't want to put his foot in his mouth even more and pursue an even bigger youth movement, and Jerry won't want to put in more good money into a bad roster. And seriously, no decisions should be made by the Sox based on attendance the rest of the year. I would expect anyone to pay for such torture.

So, my gut says:

Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Ramirez and Quentin (if healthy) are the core the Sox will build around the next few years. No one's ready in the minors to catch, so A.J. stays for now.

Jenks and Thornton (an FA this offseason as one of the best lefty relievers in the AL) will be traded for prospects, Dotel will be held on to for a stopgap in case Link, Nunez or Poreda (or one of the other closer prospects) isn't ready to close in 2010.

The reality is that no one will take Contreras, Colon and Thome in a trade. If they produce, they stay until the end of the season and then leave as FA's. If they don't produce, any of them would be waived.

Konerko and Linebrink both have NTCs and it's very doubtful they will be traded, Konerko especially - since I see him turning down any deals not to certain NL West teams.

Dye - I'd love to see him stay, but trading him is the only real payroll reduction move that Kenny could make this year. As I mentioned in my other post, I doubt the return for trading Jermaine could be anywhere near what we expect since he's older, declining and has that option clause at the end of the year. Gut feeling - he's traded.

I'd also like to see 2 of Getz, Fields and Anderson leave as part of a bigger name leaving the Sox. They all have decent (not great) track records as prospects, so even if they've burned bridges here, someone else would give them a chance and the Sox would get a prospect. I suppose either Getz and Anderson could stay as utility players...

Keep Pods, put him in LF the rest of the year. He's been one of the few bright spots of the season.

tm1119
06-11-2009, 12:15 AM
Players we should be looking to trade in my opinion: Jenks, Dotel, Thome(not likely), Dye, and Fields(if someone wants to take a chance on him).

And in my opinion Kenny should target nothing but arms. We have enough position player prospects that can make an impact on the big league club in the near future. Not to mention bats are a lot easier to come by in free agency. Its not very often that good SP's are available, and if they are, they are usually scooped up quickly by the bigger market teams.

DSpivack
06-11-2009, 12:16 AM
I really can't get a feeler for the direction the team will go in if the season is indeed a lost cause. Kenny probably won't want to put his foot in his mouth even more and pursue an even bigger youth movement, and Jerry won't want to put in more good money into a bad roster. And seriously, no decisions should be made by the Sox based on attendance the rest of the year. I would expect anyone to pay for such torture.

So, my gut says:

Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Ramirez and Quentin (if healthy) are the core the Sox will build around the next few years. No one's ready in the minors to catch, so A.J. stays for now.

Jenks and Thornton (an FA this offseason as one of the best lefty relievers in the AL) will be traded for prospects, Dotel will be held on to for a stopgap in case Link, Nunez or Poreda (or one of the other closer prospects) isn't ready to close in 2010.

The reality is that no one will take Contreras, Colon and Thome in a trade. If they produce, they stay until the end of the season and then leave as FA's. If they don't produce, any of them would be waived.

Konerko and Linebrink both have NTCs and it's very doubtful they will be traded, Konerko especially - since I see him turning down any deals not to certain NL West teams.

Dye - I'd love to see him stay, but trading him is the only real payroll reduction move that Kenny could make this year. As I mentioned in my other post, I doubt the return for trading Jermaine could be anywhere near what we expect since he's older, declining and has that option clause at the end of the year. Gut feeling - he's traded.

I'd like to see 2 of Getz, Fields and Anderson leave as part of a bigger name leaving the Sox. They all have decent (not great) track records as prospects, so even if they've burned bridges here, someone else would give them a chance and the Sox would get a prospect. I suppose either Getz and Anderson could stay as utility players...

Keep Pods, put him in LF the rest of the year. He's been one of the few bright spots of the season.

Thornton is NOT a FA after this season. The Sox hold options for him in 2010 for $2.25 million, and in 2011 for $3 million.

Rohan
06-11-2009, 12:17 AM
I don't feel like thinking about baseball anymore.. Just don't trade the churros vendor.

JB98
06-11-2009, 12:18 AM
Thornton is NOT a FA after this season. The Sox hold options for him in 2010 for $2.25 million, and in 2011 for $3 million.

Biggest bargain on the roster, especially if they move Jenks and make Thornton the closer.

chisoxfanatic
06-11-2009, 12:20 AM
I don't feel like thinking about baseball anymore.. Just don't trade the churros vendor.
Bears' training camp is in just over a month! :wooty:

russ99
06-11-2009, 12:20 AM
Biggest bargain on the roster, especially if they move Jenks and make Thornton the closer.

Oops - I was misinformed. That's a steal.

I guess Kenny could trade him, but that would have to be a heck of an offer.

BleacherBandit
06-11-2009, 12:22 AM
You don't think we can get a lot for Jenks? He's relatively cheap and good, and he's closed games in the playoffs. He's still a couple years away from free agency. He could put a contending team over the top this year.

What I meant was I don't think what we can get for Dye and Jenks will helps us more than they can. Although I do like Thornton, and know he would do well as a closer, who would take his place? After all, it's questionalble whether we'll have Dotel next year. Jenks is a young player, and I just personally feel as if he should stay around for a year or two more. However, I don't know the character of his contract.

I also think you need to keep one of the sluggers around, and that extends to Dye.

WhiteSox5187
06-11-2009, 12:24 AM
I'll now post my ideas...

Keep Dye unless someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Pick up his extension and let him split time next year between RF and DH.

Don't trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, TCQ, Beckham, TCM or Jenks. I'll add Carasco to this list as I think he's going to be a solid reliever for the next few years at least.

Only trade PK if you get a really good offer and have a plan to fill 1B next year with another middle of the order bat.

Linebrink shouldn't be moved unless there's a solid offer. He's a good late inning reliever and the team will already have to replace Dotel at the end of the year.

Try to package some group of prospects for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

Don't bring up any prospects unless they are ready to play major league ball. Giving them a taste because they are the only option available or to allow them to develop up here is simply a bad idea.

If you can get anything solid for Thome, Wise, BA, Getz, Fields, Colon or Contreras, take it. Otherwise, keep them and hope the team catches lightning in a bottle when TCQ and PK come back.

For next year, look to spend the money from Contreras and Thome to acquire a 2B/3B depending on where Beckham ends up and a CF. Then the team still needs a #4 pitcher unless they acquired one this year as suggested above and then Richard and Poreda can duke it out for the 5th slot. Richard already looks like a #5 starter with another year, he should be fine I would think.

I'll probably think of more later...

Those are probably the guys I'd build around and I might keep Paulie at first for 2010 too. I wouldn't call up the kids because I think that has disaster written all over it, the kids shouldn't be touched and we can use them later on; for 2010 I still think we need a 3B (I don't think Beckham is the long term answer at third, I think he's more of a middle infielder) and a second baseman. What I would do is probably try and trade Getz (if he could play anywhere but second I would think he'd be a good backup IF guy) and move Beckham over to second and then try and get a 3B over the off season. I think that Anderson can be a capable fourth OF but he needs to be willing to accept that, if he thinks he should be a starter, well, trade him. Dye would be a nice DH, but so would Paulie, I'd be willing to part with him though it would be hard.

With the rotation, you might as well throw Poreda out there and see what you have in him or whether the gig should go to Richard next year, then in the off season assume that one of those two will be your fifth starter and get a fourth starter - or, in an ideal world, get a top of the line ace starter and move everyone down a notch. Buerhle is great, don't get me wrong, but I mean a guy who no one would question is an ace. But I don't know how we'd get that guy.

The bullpen is ok, but I think that either Dotel or Linebrink have to go and teams get desperate for bullpen pitching so maybe we might be able to swing one or the other.

Madbilly
06-11-2009, 12:25 AM
I picked #2 although I don't like the wording. This team doesn't need "tweaking", it needs alot more than that. Possibly years of preparation of prospects and collection of other players. But we can't overhaul it just yet, becuase we won't get what we want in return for players like Dye and Jenks, in my opinion. You can't go with a fire sale, that never helps.


That's why pick #1, this team does need a lot more then tweaking. We haven't been good in years. Yes I know we made the playoffs last year, but that was by sheer luck that we squeaked in. I also know we play in a weak division and it's only June but is this team showing any kind of improvement at all? Our offense has been stagnate for 2 years now, and our pitching is suffering because of it. I think ours starters now realize that they have to be "perfect" because they aren't going to get the run support, and that effects the way they pitch. How many more times do we need to see a man on 3rd with 1 out and him get stranded there. If we keep floundering we won't get "fair market value" for any of our players and I don't think we can wait till the trade deadline to start making changes - to many teams will be sellers. I say we trade off what we can getting the best pieces possible, not just trash. Bring up the prospects that are ready and let them play. It might also be time to overhaul the coaching staff as well, bring some "new blood" in so to speak because what we have now just ain't working.

JB98
06-11-2009, 12:27 AM
What I meant was I don't think what we can get for Dye and Jenks will helps us more than they can. Although I do like Thornton, and know he would do well as a closer, who would take his place? After all, it's questionalble whether we'll have Dotel next year. Jenks is a young player, and I just personally feel as if he should stay around for a year or two more. However, I don't know the character of his contract.

I also think you need to keep one of the sluggers around, and that extends to Dye.

Bobby signed a one-year deal worth $5 million before the season. He's eligible for arbitration at the end of the year. He would not be eligible for free agency until after 2011.

Poreda could potentially replace Thornton in the left-handed set-up role if Jenks is dealt and Matt becomes closer. I think it's almost certain that Dotel is gone by next year.

It's worth noting that I really like Bobby Jenks as a closer. I wouldn't trade him unless I was getting at least two players that I thought would help at the big-league level. But I think we might be able to get that, and if the team is out of the race, KW should take a look at the possibility.

Nellie_Fox
06-11-2009, 01:16 AM
Bears' training camp is in just over a month! :wooty:Thank you Dan McNeil. :rolleyes:

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-11-2009, 01:22 AM
I would say be selective. This team was able to win last year. There isn't a reason to trade everyone unless you're getting something good. One to two FA signings to help with the offense and I think we'd be ok for next year.

chisoxfanatic
06-11-2009, 01:33 AM
I would say be selective. This team was able to win last year. There isn't a reason to trade everyone unless you're getting something good. One to two FA signings to help with the offense and I think we'd be ok for next year.
But, having Beckham/Fields and Nix/Getz is a sizable downgrade over having Uribe and Cabrera (both offensively and defensively), and that's enough to make a hell of a lot of difference.

DSpivack
06-11-2009, 02:50 AM
Oops - I was misinformed. That's a steal.

I guess Kenny could trade him, but that would have to be a heck of an offer.

Yeah, I didn't mean to harp on you, just thought that a big difference. And what a bargain, to boot.

Not sure when, but in the past someone here linked to this terrific site on MLB contracts:

Cot's Baseball Contracts (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/)

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-11-2009, 03:29 AM
But, having Beckham/Fields and Nix/Getz is a sizable downgrade over having Uribe and Cabrera (both offensively and defensively), and that's enough to make a hell of a lot of difference.

True, and I'm not ignoring that, but you know for the most part Beckham should turn out ok and make an impact. Getz, Nix, and Fields have all come up short of expectations. Had they even come close to what we expected or hoped from them, we wouldn't be in the position we were in. Like I said, sign a producer to play 2B/3B, put Beckham in the free position and the team becomes alot better. If we don't sign Thome or Dye for next season, that's alot of money coming off the books, especially with Contreras gone. We (hopefully) should be able to sign an impact player or two. This team is having a bad year, like 2007, where everything seems to be going wrong.

Frater Perdurabo
06-11-2009, 06:34 AM
I would not trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Jenks, Linebrink, Beckham, AJ, or Alexei. Paulie & Quentin can't be dealt as they are hurt, and frankly, I wouldn't deal either. Few other players have much trade value.

Dotel, Dye and Thome still have value. I wouldn't turn down a good deal for them, but I wouldn't actively shop them. Plus, because their deals end, the Sox won't get much in return. So, reload this offseason when contracts end and payroll space opens. Go for Figgins & Crawford!

Therefore, stay the course. There's already a "youth movement" going on with BA, Getz, Fields, Beckham and Richard. Keep playing them, hope for the best, but at least find out if they can produce. If they cannot, great, we know what holes to fill. If they can, even better, that's one less hole to fill!

24thStFan
06-11-2009, 08:09 AM
The Sox right now have no identity...are they a contender? are they rebuilding?
Lip

There is no chemistry on this team. No one except AJ shows any emotion. KW needs to bring in some guys who will fight for a win and can execute the fundamentals--bunting baserunning, sacrificing, etc.

I'd trade some (if possible) of the the cookie-cutter, DH-type players we have--Konerko, Thome, Quentin--for OF players who can hit for average and execute. I'd keep Dye as the DH and utility OFer of the future.

I'd also trade Anderson, Fields, Wise, and any other malcontents. Surround Alexei and Beckham with mature, leadership type guys (Dye, AJ) and bring in some new blood. Have Ozzie kick some ass and demand that everyone get with the program or sit.

As far as the pitching staff, keep Buherle, Jenks, Danks, and Thornton. Everyone else is trade-bait. Our pitching is our highest value asset right now.

With some of these changes and the right attitude from the top-down, I still think the Sox can be competitive now and in the future.

Go SOX!!!

gr8mexico
06-11-2009, 08:52 AM
The Sox need to start selling now so they can be prepared for next year and seeing exactly what the young kids can do by playing them this year.
The Sox can add some nice offensive players next year. Like Chone Figgins (3B-CF), Jason Bay(OF), Matt Holliday (OF), Xavier Nady (OF), or sign pitchers like Erik Bedard or John Lackey. Also by trading some of the veteran players this year the Sox can stock the minor leagues and maybe look to trade some of them during the winter. Maybe making a run at Brandon Webb during the winter. After seeing how he recovers from his injury.

Jimmy Piersall
06-11-2009, 09:21 AM
Bears' training camp is in just over a month! :wooty:

Thank God for that and the Hawk prospects camp...wish they were
starting today.

kaufsox
06-11-2009, 09:35 AM
I'll now post my ideas...

Keep Dye unless someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Pick up his extension and let him split time next year between RF and DH.

Don't trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, TCQ, Beckham, TCM or Jenks. I'll add Carasco to this list as I think he's going to be a solid reliever for the next few years at least.

Only trade PK if you get a really good offer and have a plan to fill 1B next year with another middle of the order bat.

Linebrink shouldn't be moved unless there's a solid offer. He's a good late inning reliever and the team will already have to replace Dotel at the end of the year.

Try to package some group of prospects for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

Don't bring up any prospects unless they are ready to play major league ball. Giving them a taste because they are the only option available or to allow them to develop up here is simply a bad idea.

If you can get anything solid for Thome, Wise, BA, Getz, Fields, Colon or Contreras, take it. Otherwise, keep them and hope the team catches lightning in a bottle when TCQ and PK come back.



I'm not sure what you mean by the second highlighted portion, what is "solid" and, honestly if you were a GM would you want any of those guys, except maybe Thome? Wise is a journeyman minor leaguer, BA might do well with a change of scene, but how much would you gamble on that? Getz and Fields fall into that same category. Colon and Jose? would you give up more than AA prospects for them?

As far as the other bolded portion, I'll admit I don't keep a really close eye on the farm system, but seeing how our products are performing when they come up, do you think there is going to be that much interest?

WhiteSoxFTW
06-11-2009, 09:39 AM
How long does OG's contract run?

voodoochile
06-11-2009, 09:47 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by the second highlighted portion, what is "solid" and, honestly if you were a GM would you want any of those guys, except maybe Thome? Wise is a journeyman minor leaguer, BA might do well with a change of scene, but how much would you gamble on that? Getz and Fields fall into that same category. Colon and Jose? would you give up more than AA prospects for them?

As far as the other bolded portion, I'll admit I don't keep a really close eye on the farm system, but seeing how our products are performing when they come up, do you think there is going to be that much interest?

I don't know either. I do know we were very close to acquiring Jake Peavy last month, so yeah there is some interest in some of our prospects at least.

No, I don't think there is much interest in the group of players I mentioned in the second portion, that's why I said if they can get anything solid at all you take it. BA, Fields or Getz might have value as a throw in if another GM thinks they just need a change of scenery or is willing to take any "MLB ready player" as part of the deal so they can point to that player and say, "hey we got someone who will be on the team immediately even though the rest of the trade will be starting in the minors."

I'm not an expert either. I trust KW to make the right decisions and hope another GM screws up and overvalues our scrubs...:D:

Britt Burns
06-11-2009, 09:58 AM
Call me crazy, but I do not think that we are too far away from having a strong team again. Not this year of course--I just can't imagine a scenario that would turn us into legit contenders, not without sacrificing the strongest farm systems we've had in quite a while.

Assume that KW can't make get any value in trading our impending FAs: Thome, Contreras, Dotel, or players we have some control over in 2010: Konerko and Dye. Letting the first three go, plus being done with the contracts of MacDougal, Betemit, and Colon will save us about $33M. We'll call it an effective $30M, factoring in the rise in some salaries for arbitration-eligible players: Thornton, Jenks, etc. That's a lot of money, more considering just a year later we will save another $23M when Dye and Konerko come off the books. With that money we can go out and afford to sign or trade for a big name guy, and a couple of mid-range starters...I'm thinking one player in the Webb or Haren range (we were willing to take on Peavey's contract, which is similar), another in the Coco Crisp-tier of players. And we have a good core group. Here's how it could shake out the next two years:

2010
SP: Buehrle
SP: Floyd
SP: Danks
SP: (trade or FA)
SP: Richard/Poreda
CL: Jenks
RP: Thornton
RP: Linebrink
RP: Poreda/Richard
RP: (rookies for last spots. Link?)
C: AJ
1B: Konerko
2B: Getz or Beckham or FA/trade
SS: Ramirez
3B: Beckham or FA/trade
LF: Quentin
CF: FA/trade
RF: FA/trade
DH: Dye

Admittedly there are some big holes in that lineup, but I have a hard time believing that whoever we found would be worse than BA, Fields, Wise, and the rest of the jokers who are currently playing those positions. Even if we couldn't and the team flounders next year also, we can at least expect to start seeing some of our top minor league talent making contributions at the big league level. It is always dangerous to project how prospects will perform in the bigs, but lets assume the best for now and see what 2011 might look like:

SP: Buehrle
SP: Floyd
SP: Danks
SP: (FA/trade)
SP: Richard/Poreda
CL: Jenks
RP: Linebrink
RP: Poreda/Richard
RP: (FA/trade)
RP: Link
C: Flowers
1B: Allen
2B: Beckham
SS: Ramirez
3B: (FA/trade)
LF: Quentin
CF: Jor. Danks
RF: FA/trade
DH: Viciedo

Throw in a Webb/Haren type and assume Quentin, Beckham, etc. keep developing, and that could be a strong team. Now, the reality is that of the Beckham/Flowers/Allen/Danks/Viciedo group we will be lucky to get one star-caliber player, one useful regular, and one role player/backup, and given KW's M.O. I can't imagine he won't trade at least one of those players. Still, the whole point of this has been to hopefully show that while this year has been absolutely terrible, I think we are in a good position to start winning again, and relatively soon.

kobo
06-11-2009, 10:24 AM
If the team can move Thome and get something of value for him, do it. He won't be here next year anyway, so if a team comes calling I hope they can get something for him. Same for Contreras, but I doubt they'll be able to move him. Hopefully he can be a solid 4/5 for the rest of the year.

Keep Dye if possible. This team will need a DH next year and I think Dye can still produce and can be a solid DH in the middle of the order.

Get rid of Fields. I don't need to see anymore from him. I had high hopes for him at the beginning of the season, but outside of the first couple weeks in April he's been awful.

Trade Alexei this offseason. I know this won't be a popular idea, but I think he's one of the only players right now that would bring back a nice return. This would allow them to then move Beckham to SS and go after a 3B. Or maybe they trade him for a 3B and then they can go after a SP in free agency.

Trade Dotel if possible. He's had a good season and some contender is going to need another arm in the pen.

Tweaks are needed, I don't think a dismantling of the team is needed or the right thing to do. The Sox must address the CF and 3B positions either this season via trades or in the off season. I think we are all tired of the lack of a true CF on this team for 3 years now. Unless BA starts hitting there is no reason to keep him around. I like his D, but that's not enough anymore. I think Clayton will settle in as a solid #5, so all they need to do is go after a legit SP. They also need to get a solid 4th outfielder, because I don't think they can rely on Quentin being healthy for an entire season.

kittle42
06-11-2009, 10:35 AM
Great discussion. I said be selective. But they have to have a plan.

How about this idea? Instead of building a team that can "compete" in a very weak division "if everything breaks right," how about building one that can ****ing ravage that division? The Sox' 50 cents mentality, which they managed to sell to the fans thanks to the ****ty Tigers being the best team in the division, is horse****.

thedudeabides
06-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Right now, I probably wouldn't do much of anything. Unless, someone comes to the Sox with a trade they think is too valuable to pass up. It's the second week of June, and although the Sox are fringe contenders at best, they are not out of it, and not too many teams really know where they stand. You have over a month and a half until the trade deadline. There will be injuries and team needs arise for contenders in that time. Be patient and let the trade market open up.

In that time, hope you can get healthy and try to get back in this thing. If the Sox can be .500 at the break, I can't imagine they will be out of it. If you are out of it, hopefully some of the young players can turn it around and create a bit of a market for themselves. Heck, if Pods keeps playing like he has, he may be a trade chip.

And for the people who want to call up everyone from the minors, just keep in mind that Beckham is an extreme exception, who has a great contact rate, and these other guys need development. In no way is Jordan Danks ready, and Brandon Allen has been brought along slowly, and that approach has seemed to work for him. I wouldn't mind seeing that continue.

Besides, if the Sox bail this early and we see a massive drop in ticket sales, it will be detrimental to the payroll next year. That could have some pretty long term ramifications.

kittle42
06-11-2009, 10:43 AM
Let me also add that if this team does nothing at the break, a la 2007, I will **** a brick.

kobo
06-11-2009, 10:48 AM
Great discussion. I said be selective. But they have to have a plan.

How about this idea? Instead of building a team that can "compete" in a very weak division "if everything breaks right," how about building one that can ****ing ravage that division? The Sox' 50 cents mentality, which they managed to sell to the fans thanks to the ****ty Tigers being the best team in the division, is horse****.
Completely agree. It was very disheartening to hear that 50 cents line from KW after only a few years removed from a WS win. I know they spent a lot on payroll the past couple of years, but the division is weak, they should be building a team that owns the division year in and year out.

voodoochile
06-11-2009, 11:02 AM
Great discussion. I said be selective. But they have to have a plan.

How about this idea? Instead of building a team that can "compete" in a very weak division "if everything breaks right," how about building one that can ****ing ravage that division? The Sox' 50 cents mentality, which they managed to sell to the fans thanks to the ****ty Tigers being the best team in the division, is horse****.

I think that is the plan, but the Sox are in the process of ending a cycle. End of cycle teams are represented by high end contracts to aging veterans and little room to maneuver. The Sox start freeing up money at the end of the season and in theory that's when the next cycle begins. This one could last longer because they have more young pitchers to build around who can actually pitch so they won't have to tie up as much money or trade as many prospects to finalize a solid starting 5 (in theory). Add in the fact that there are more position prospects to be excited about than in recent memory and the Sox are well set up entering the next cycle/window.

Detroit has spent how much money to be in first in a bad division in mid-June? One would expect that's going to cost them big time down the road. The Sox have managed to avoid that pitfall while staying competitive for the most part and even managing to win a WS and another division title.

No guarantees especially when it comes to the prospects, but I trust KW to make the most of the resources he has and for the moment it's nice to see the minor league system actually showing signs of life again...

kittle42
06-11-2009, 11:10 AM
It would be nice to see Contreras have 2 more good outings and get traded.

Tragg
06-11-2009, 11:14 AM
Let me also add that if this team does nothing at the break, a la 2007, I will **** a brick.
Actually when they couldn't trade Dye and MB, they ended up signing them to extensions....so in that sense, they did a good bit.

ode to veeck
06-11-2009, 07:12 PM
my plan is to stop reading clubhouse threads on dumping players and who sucks & their decendents in the outhouse

PalehosePlanet
06-12-2009, 09:10 AM
I'll now post my ideas...

Keep Dye unless someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Pick up his extension and let him split time next year between RF and DH.

Don't trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, TCQ, Beckham, TCM or Jenks. I'll add Carasco to this list as I think he's going to be a solid reliever for the next few years at least.

Only trade PK if you get a really good offer and have a plan to fill 1B next year with another middle of the order bat.

Linebrink shouldn't be moved unless there's a solid offer. He's a good late inning reliever and the team will already have to replace Dotel at the end of the year.

Try to package some group of prospects for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

Don't bring up any prospects unless they are ready to play major league ball. Giving them a taste because they are the only option available or to allow them to develop up here is simply a bad idea.

If you can get anything solid for Thome, Wise, BA, Getz, Fields, Colon or Contreras, take it. Otherwise, keep them and hope the team catches lightning in a bottle when TCQ and PK come back.

For next year, look to spend the money from Contreras and Thome to acquire a 2B/3B depending on where Beckham ends up and a CF. Then the team still needs a #4 pitcher unless they acquired one this year as suggested above and then Richard and Poreda can duke it out for the 5th slot. Richard already looks like a #5 starter with another year, he should be fine I would think.

I'll probably think of more later...

Excellent, well thought out, post Voodoo; I agree 100%.

I'm never a believer of blowing up a team, unless the team is completely devoid of talent at the MLB level --- which we certainly are not. Only horse**** organizations, or financially strapped clubs, do that.

I know fans get frustrated and say, or yell, **** it! Get rid of most everyone! But you have to remain calm and not make any knee-jerk reactions.

pmck003
06-12-2009, 10:41 AM
What would you guys think of trading Konerko to the Giants, and what return would make you happy? Only reason I think trading Konerko would make sense is because of the potential left handed FA 1B that shouldn't be too expensive and could slide between TCQ and Dye (A. Huff, A. LaRoche, Nick Johnson). If Fields proved to be a competent 1B, the Sox would have even more options for the DH spot. I'd do it even if the Sox were in contention for Cain, but I think the Giants would need more.

Would Konerko/Richards be a fair trade for both sides? Would Konerko want to go back to California? I'd think about Konerko for Sanchez/projected average 3B/CF ready-to-go prospect, but only if the Sox were definitley out of it this year.

voodoochile
06-12-2009, 10:46 AM
What would you guys think of trading Konerko to the Giants, and what return would make you happy? Only reason I think trading Konerko would make sense is because of the potential left handed FA 1B that shouldn't be too expensive and could slide between TCQ and Dye (A. Huff, A. LaRoche, Nick Johnson). If Fields proved to be a competent 1B, the Sox would have even more options for the DH spot. I'd do it even if the Sox were in contention for Cain, but I think the Giants would need more.

Would Konerko/Richards be a fair trade for both sides? Would Konerko want to go back to California? I'd think about Konerko for Sanchez/projected average 3B/CF ready-to-go prospect, but only if the Sox were definitley out of it this year.

Would the Giants be willing to take on PK's salary. They have a pretty big amount already tied up in position players.

Also, I'd want more than Fields as a plan for 1B for next year. Power numbers have to come from somewhere and while I'd like to see the Sox get better at manufacturing runs and picking up RISP, homers are still a big part of offense in the game and 1B is traditionally a big power position.

Like I said earlier, I for one don't want to trade PK unless there's a real good chance the Sox can land a power hitter to play 1B for next year. I don't know if that would save money either in the long run.

I love the idea of picking up another SP especially one as good as Cain, but I'd prefer to deal prospects to land him or a similar pitcher. The Sox nearly landed Peavy without trading a single Major Leaguer and without decimating the position talent at AA. That's the kind of trade I'd prefer to make.

longtimesoxguy
06-12-2009, 10:50 AM
Try to upgrade where you can. This division can be won.
If we can put 2 weeks of good ball together we will be right there.

pmck003
06-12-2009, 11:26 AM
Would the Giants be willing to take on PK's salary. They have a pretty big amount already tied up in position players.

Also, I'd want more than Fields as a plan for 1B for next year. Power numbers have to come from somewhere and while I'd like to see the Sox get better at manufacturing runs and picking up RISP, homers are still a big part of offense in the game and 1B is traditionally a big power position.

Like I said earlier, I for one don't want to trade PK unless there's a real good chance the Sox can land a power hitter to play 1B for next year. I don't know if that would save money either in the long run.

I love the idea of picking up another SP especially one as good as Cain, but I'd prefer to deal prospects to land him or a similar pitcher. The Sox nearly landed Peavy without trading a single Major Leaguer and without decimating the position talent at AA. That's the kind of trade I'd prefer to make.

I agree this would be more of a plan B to a trade like the Peavy type. There would be a decent amount of risk in relying on those FA to be on the market at a reasonable price, and even then if they could come close to replacing Paulie's power. I'd forget about the Sanchez comment, but if the Sox can indeed save enough money to sign one of the better FA pitchers available, I'd feel pretty good about competing for the next three years with a rotation of Sox's three, FA, and Cain even with a bit of a power dropoff.

I'll throw Chad Tracy in the cheap 1B left handed FA w/ potential power list too, but thats a real gamble. As long as the Sox can keep on (or start..) developing younger players I wouldn't mind seeing them take a short-term gamble though.

NLaloosh
06-12-2009, 11:31 AM
I'll now post my ideas...

Keep Dye unless someone knocks your socks off with an offer. Pick up his extension and let him split time next year between RF and DH.

Don't trade Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, TCQ, Beckham, TCM or Jenks. I'll add Carasco to this list as I think he's going to be a solid reliever for the next few years at least.

Only trade PK if you get a really good offer and have a plan to fill 1B next year with another middle of the order bat.

Linebrink shouldn't be moved unless there's a solid offer. He's a good late inning reliever and the team will already have to replace Dotel at the end of the year.

Try to package some group of prospects for a top of the rotation starting pitcher.

Don't bring up any prospects unless they are ready to play major league ball. Giving them a taste because they are the only option available or to allow them to develop up here is simply a bad idea.

If you can get anything solid for Thome, Wise, BA, Getz, Fields, Colon or Contreras, take it. Otherwise, keep them and hope the team catches lightning in a bottle when TCQ and PK come back.

For next year, look to spend the money from Contreras and Thome to acquire a 2B/3B depending on where Beckham ends up and a CF. Then the team still needs a #4 pitcher unless they acquired one this year as suggested above and then Richard and Poreda can duke it out for the 5th slot. Richard already looks like a #5 starter with another year, he should be fine I would think.

I'll probably think of more later...

I'd say that I agree most closely with what you've said here.

It's hard to commit to a fire-sale when the players that you would want to move are undesirable for the most part.

Thome and Contreras likely bring almost nothing so you might as well keep them in the hope that the team contends and they sell tickets.

Dye should be kept next year as well because they Sox don't have s*** in the way of outfielders and he could always DH.

Konerko is the best hitter on the team, a fan favorite and a leader and unless you get a great offer for him (which they won't) you might as well keep him.

I don't see any point to trading BA or Fields now. You can do that any time. Unless you get a nice offer, ofcourse.

The only 2 players of consequence that I would consider trading at the deadline, if we're convinced that we won't win the divsion, would be Dotel and Jenks. In fact, I would probably trade Dotel anyway. And, if you get a good offer for Bobby, then do it.

These are probably the easiest guys to replace from your farm system.

The Sox should ONLY be buyers if someone is offering a star player with a high salary but demanding little in young talent.

Mod Edit: I highlighted your language violation. Please don't try to self-edit your posts.

NLaloosh
06-12-2009, 11:43 AM
By the way, I strongly suggested that the Sox trade Jenks over the winter and sign Trevor Hoffman. It turned out that would've been a great move. I think they should still do something like that in the future.

palehozenychicty
06-12-2009, 12:12 PM
By the way, I strongly suggested that the Sox trade Jenks over the winter and sign Trevor Hoffman. It turned out that would've been a great move. I think they should still do something like that in the future.


I don't think Trevor has the stuff or health to get out American League hitters. It's just my opinion.

Lip Man 1
06-12-2009, 05:07 PM
LaLoosh:

You talk about trading half of the big four out of the bullpen. Question...who pitches in the pen next season if the Sox do that and actually expect to contend?

Lip

balke
06-14-2009, 12:49 PM
My plan-

Talk to Seattle, and see how in love they are with Ichiro and Bedard. Just get a dialogue going and see if a deal makes sense.

Go get Mclouth would've been another suggestion, but the Braves swooped in.

Other than that, if you can't find the big time CFer for relatively cheap, ride this one out til the offseason and figure it out in the meantime.

Choose between Dye or Konerko as future DH.

Start looking for the next all around 1Bman. Let Thome go, and use his money next season on a superstar or just a good outfielder. Slide down Dye to Dh and get Abreu, or whatever you can put together. Can't panic now. This team has time to put the pieces together, the players and money just needs to come available.

With this bullpen you can either keep it together and stay competitive, or you can try to find a good deal at the deadline for a good starter or position player.

I wouldn't panic right now. Contreras is kinda plugging up holes on the sinking ship. A good stretch of pitching til mid-july, and perhaps Quentin can push them down the stretch.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2009, 03:09 PM
This offseason, let Thome and Contreras go. Sign Figgins. Hope the Rays stink, lose money, decline Crawford's option, and swoop in to sign Crawford. Pick up Dye's option. Quentin to DH. Use the flexibility of Figgins, Alexei and Beckham to platoon BA and Getz in the 9-hole. This lineup produces 200 HRs and 150 steals:

3B/CF Figgins
2B/3B/SS Beckham
LF Crawford
DH Quentin
RF Dye
1B Paulie
C AJ
SS/2B Alexei
CF BA/2B Getz

Re-sign Dotel, or find an equal FA to keep the pen intact. Richard and Poreda in the rotation. If not, put Poreda in the pen, trade Paulie to the Giants for Cain, and put Brandon Allen at 1B.

kevingrt
06-14-2009, 03:58 PM
I picked the buyers option. But I think we should really reevaluate where we are at the end of June after the Scrubbies series at the Cell.

Tragg
06-14-2009, 04:15 PM
This offseason, let Thome and Contreras go. Sign Figgins. Hope the Rays stink, lose money, decline Crawford's option, and swoop in to sign Crawford. Pick up Dye's option. Quentin to DH. Use the flexibility of Figgins, Alexei and Beckham to platoon BA and Getz in the 9-hole. This lineup produces 200 HRs and 150 steals:

3B/CF Figgins
2B/3B/SS Beckham
LF Crawford
DH Quentin
RF Dye
1B Paulie
C AJ
SS/2B Alexei
CF BA/2B Getz

Re-sign Dotel, or find an equal FA to keep the pen intact. Richard and Poreda in the rotation. If not, put Poreda in the pen, trade Paulie to the Giants for Cain, and put Brandon Allen at 1B.
There it is - hidden in the fine print; I knew it couldn't be a Frater plan without the PK trade. LOL.

California Sox
06-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Like everyone else, I picked option two. But I think my idea of "tweaking" incorporates rotating in more young players than most definitions.

The strength of the Sox organization right now is position players in AA. The weakness of the major league club is aging position players, so you're going to have to see who of the group at Birmingham is a major leaguer and who is a AAAA player over the next year or two. They're already working Beckham into the mix (I would have left him in AA all year). If the team continues to founder, I imagine either Flowers or Allen will be the next to get a shot. With Konerko, Dye, and Thome all on the way out within the next few years, the next nucleus has to be determined. Allen could be a key player in that he's a left-handed power hitter. JorDanks probably needs another year to develop. Retherford is an intriguing Uggla type. It's not pretty, but he gets the job done. If Beckham doesn't move to 2b, I wouldn't be surprised to see him steal a job eventually. Viciedo needs to find a position. After getting a read on who the new nucleus is, I'd sign or trade for a younger bat to fit in. I wonder if Florida will be dumping Hermida soon. I always thought he'd be a fit in our ballpark.

I would not touch the pitching staff. You can contend with a mediocre offense if you play decent defense (which this team is a ways away from) and have a good bullpen. I'm against trading Dotel unless you get something pretty good for him because he'll be a Type A free agent that will definitely be signed. That's two draft picks. And I'm against trading Jenks until he's making Mariano money. He's still a relative bargain. Obviously, if you've got the chance to acquire a true #1, take it. Otherwise, I think the Sox are better off letting the pitching staff ride.

2010 might be a bit of a down year, but after that, the Sox will have a few young established players and a lot of bank to go out and finish building the team.

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 02:18 PM
Since 1st half 2006, his stock has never been this high.

Kenny, please start working the phones.

spawn
06-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Since 1st half 2006, his stock has never been this high.

Kenny, please start working the phones.
Yeah Kenny. The team is only 4.5 games out in a very winnable division. Please trade one of the starters so we can give up on the season already!!! :rolleyes:

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 03:01 PM
Yeah Kenny. The team is only 4.5 games out in a very winnable division. Please trade one of the starters so we can give up on the season already!!! :rolleyes:


Typical. Falling in love with the flavor of the month.

We need to start looking at big picture right now, regardless of these pathetic standing you so want to hang your hat on.

Just 5-6 weeks ago 99% wanted Contreras not to ever throw another pitch in a Sox uniform. Now, he's the savior (yes, Ozzie, that's the true meaning of it).

So which is it? Is he done, is he good?

Get something for him while you can, that's all I say.

spawn
06-15-2009, 03:13 PM
Typical. Falling in love with the flavor of the month.

We need to start looking at big picture right now, regardless of these pathetic standing you so want to hang your hat on.
Sorry. I'm just not ready to throw in the towel when we're 4.5 games out in June. And seeing as we're in a pathetic division, I don't think KW should throw in the towel.

Just 5-6 weeks ago 99% wanted Contreras not to ever throw another pitch in a Sox uniform. Now, he's the savior (yes, Ozzie, that's the true meaning of it).

So which is it? Is he done, is he good?
Well, 5-6 weeks ago, I wasn't one of the 99% advocating getting rid of him. Don't believe me? Do a search and find any post where I said I thought he was done and needed to be gone.

Get something for him while you can, that's all I say.
No, you're saying to basically scratch the season and move on to next year. Glad you're not the GM. You give up waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily.:rolleyes:

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 03:23 PM
No, you're saying to basically scratch the season and move on to next year. Glad you're not the GM. You give up waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily.:rolleyes:


I think the Sox can compete in this awful division the rest of the way and still unload some of these players. That's how bad this division is.

Contreras does not equal a World Series for this season.

Just my opinion.

gobears1987
06-15-2009, 03:28 PM
Yeah Kenny. The team is only 4.5 games out in a very winnable division. Please trade one of the starters so we can give up on the season already!!! :rolleyes:It's a gamble, but you can try to plug Poreda in Jose's rotation spot.

You can get major league talent to fill one of our team's huge holes and improve this club for this season.

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 03:30 PM
It's a gamble, but you can try to plug Poreda in Jose's rotation spot.


That's my thinking.


Save money from Contreras this year and also perhaps land a good prospect or two.

spawn
06-15-2009, 03:35 PM
It's a gamble, but you can try to plug Poreda in Jose's rotation spot.

You can get major league talent to fill one of our team's huge holes and improve this club for this season.
I'd rather have Poreda take Clayton Richard's spot in the rotation. I'd rather go with one risk in the starting rotation than two.

Also, it's doubtful you'll get the talent to fill the holes missing in the lineup (3B, CF) for Jose. We may get a couple of prospects, but that's it IMO.

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
I'd rather have Poreda take Clayton Richard's spot in the rotation. I'd rather go with one risk in the starting rotation than two.

Also, it's doubtful you'll get the talent to fill the holes missing in the lineup (3B, CF) for Jose. We may get a couple of prospects, but that's it IMO.


I take it, right now.
I'm Kenny, I'm listening to all calls for:

Jose
Dye
AJ
Jenks
Dotel
Linebrink
Carrasco

spawn
06-15-2009, 03:45 PM
I take it, right now.
I'm Kenny, I'm listening to all calls for:

Jose
Dye
AJ
Jenks
Dotel
Linebrink
Carrasco
Glad you're not KW. That's a White Flag trade if I ever saw one. I don't know why you continue to follow this team this season. For you, it appears to be over, so why watch? Incredible.:rolleyes:

asindc
06-15-2009, 03:52 PM
Typical. Falling in love with the flavor of the month.

We need to start looking at big picture right now, regardless of these pathetic standing you so want to hang your hat on.

Just 5-6 weeks ago 99% wanted Contreras not to ever throw another pitch in a Sox uniform. Now, he's the savior (yes, Ozzie, that's the true meaning of it).

So which is it? Is he done, is he good?

Get something for him while you can, that's all I say.

You sound like BillyAshley with statements like that. Truth is that while many were clamoring for him to be released, some of us were not. I thought at the beginning of the season that if he had problems, it would be because he was not in baseball shape yet. That seeems to have been the case. He had already done a remarkable job getting physically and mentally fit again, but the problem was his command.

I also thought that if he did join the rotation again this year, it would be because he had finally gotten into baseball shape and regained control of his pitches. That seems to be the case so far. I doubt that I am the only one who thought about JC this way as the season has progressed. Next time, try reading more than just the negative comments in a thread.

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 05:00 PM
Glad you're not KW. That's a White Flag trade if I ever saw one. I don't know why you continue to follow this team this season. For you, it appears to be over, so why watch? Incredible.:rolleyes:


It's not over.

But I still feel we can play .450 ball with or without those guys.

LoveYourSuit
06-15-2009, 05:02 PM
You sound like BillyAshley with statements like that. Truth is that while many were clamoring for him to be released, some of us were not. I thought at the beginning of the season that if he had problems, it would be because he was not in baseball shape yet. That seeems to have been the case. He had already done a remarkable job getting physically and mentally fit again, but the problem was his command.

I also thought that if he did join the rotation again this year, it would be because he had finally gotten into baseball shape and regained control of his pitches. That seems to be the case so far. I doubt that I am the only one who thought about JC this way as the season has progressed. Next time, try reading more than just the negative comments in a thread.

OK, let me re-phrase that.

"The majority of White Sox fans wanted Jose Contreras gone for good."