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View Full Version : *Official* 6-10-09 Something's Gotta Give Postgame Thread


guillensdisciple
06-10-2009, 09:26 PM
I don't know.

munchman33
06-10-2009, 09:26 PM
blow it up. no doubt now.

Baron
06-10-2009, 09:27 PM
Fields...:angry: please go away

thomas35forever
06-10-2009, 09:27 PM
No words. Just...no words.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:27 PM
blow it up. no doubt now.

It is coming soon if this keeps up, Kenny said so before the game. I'm fine with that.

getonbckthr
06-10-2009, 09:27 PM
This season may have just ended. If there is any long term injury to Paulie the season is over.

ShoelessJoeS
06-10-2009, 09:27 PM
*shakes head*

Who knows...



Great outing for Danks today, and Dotel did his job too.

SoxSpeed22
06-10-2009, 09:28 PM
When a pitcher like Verlander pitches like that, not much you can do, although there were some brutal at-bats. It's good to see Johnny work fast and pitch the way he did. He just has to remember that for his next start.

1989
06-10-2009, 09:28 PM
win tomorrow or the season's over

Brian26
06-10-2009, 09:28 PM
No doubt the umpires have had a rough series, but Fields and Alexei are having absolutely disgusting at-bats.

Baron
06-10-2009, 09:28 PM
Fields is now 0-8 against Ferlander

DaveFeelsRight
06-10-2009, 09:29 PM
for ****'s sake, fire walker and make some trades kenny, please.

It's Dankerific
06-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Hey! We're only 6.5 games out of first place. And remember, although we are 6 games under .500, we were in .500 JUST LAST WEEK and we were on a tear back then!

thomas35forever
06-10-2009, 09:29 PM
With apologies to Lee Elia, "I'll tell you one ****ing thing. I hope we get ****ing hotter than ****."

guillensdisciple
06-10-2009, 09:29 PM
We have lost 3 1 run games in this series. IN THIS SERIES:o:.


Prior to this series I said that the White Sox had to show signs of life in this series, and they have not. This team is sinking fast. I maintain that we can do it, but realism is starting to settle in.

I guess I will have to enjoy this year just because my favorite team is playing, not because they are playing and winning.

wassagstdu
06-10-2009, 09:30 PM
I'll trade Alexei Ramirez even up for Juan Uribe. Uribe is a better shortstop and probably a better hitter too. Get it done, Kenny.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:30 PM
No doubt the umpires have had a rough series, but Fields and Alexei are having absolutely disgusting at-bats.

You can't really expect much from Josh. His greatest asset is that he can hit breaking stuff decently, but major league pitchers won't throw it to him with the problems he has against fastballs. He really had no chance with Verlander popping it at 97-98.

Baron
06-10-2009, 09:30 PM
Wise was actually 3-5 against Ferlander

BadBobbyJenks
06-10-2009, 09:30 PM
Was Alexei's at bat in the 8th the worst in the history of baseball?

yazz32
06-10-2009, 09:30 PM
hate to say it but its time to break up the home run or none lineup

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:30 PM
Do you people really want to blow **** up and trade Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, Jenks, whomever?

I'm glad you'd enjoy watching your team **** the bed for a few years and be the worst team in the AL.

Frankly, I don't want to see that.

ShoelessJoeS
06-10-2009, 09:31 PM
With apologies to Lee Elia, "I'll tell you one ****ing thing. I hope we get ****ing hotter than ****."One can only hope.

MarkZ35
06-10-2009, 09:31 PM
Looking into this series I really felt like we could have won 3 of the 5 games but it really looks like we will only get one. When we pitch we don't hit. When we hit we don't pitch. Now Paulie out with TCQ. I think if we lose tommorrow our season is over.

Woofer
06-10-2009, 09:31 PM
It is coming soon if this keeps up, Kenny said so before the game. I'm fine with that.

Well, I don't have much money right now to spend on White Sox tickets, parking, food or merchandise right now, so they can do whatever they want. Everybody needs to look out for their own best interests, me included.

Dick Allen
06-10-2009, 09:31 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2009 Chicago ******* White Sox.:angry:

guillensdisciple
06-10-2009, 09:32 PM
I'll trade Alexei Ramirez even up for Juan Uribe. Uribe is a better shortstop and probably a better hitter too. Get it done, Kenny.


Alexei was on a tear for the previous week and a half and had one bad game today. Look at his game logs, and see that he has been raising his average slowly.

Juan Uribe has the glove, but is a horrible horrible hitter with no potential. Alexei can and probably will be a really good hitter (and a decent fielder at that).

thomas35forever
06-10-2009, 09:32 PM
hate to say it but its time to break up the home run or none lineup
We're not even that type of lineup anymore. We're nothing now.

wassagstdu
06-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Do you people really want to blow **** up and trade Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, Jenks, whomever?

I'm glad you'd enjoy watching your team **** the bed for a few years and be the worst team in the AL.

Frankly, I don't want to see that.

I think you're looking at it.

MarkZ35
06-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Was Alexei's at bat in the 8th the worst in the history of baseball?
It is very possible. It definately deserves honorable mention.

Rohan
06-10-2009, 09:32 PM
This might be about the time that all of the bandwagon fans that we picked up in 2005 drop off.

The ones that dismissed 2007 as a fluke anyway. This team is going to be good eventually. But not for quite awhile, and I think that's quite apparent.

ShoelessJoeS
06-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Was Alexei's at bat in the 8th the worst in the history of baseball?Top 5 for sure.

GlassSox
06-10-2009, 09:33 PM
I like Alexei but he has to learn not swing at **** pitches and Fields still needs a ticket to Charlotte. This was a winnable game and we messed our pants again. :angry:

Danks was pretty good but our pitchers can't win if we can't score some runs.

Well at least I changed channels in time to see Blum hit a walk off single. :cool:

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Alexei was on a tear for the previous week and a half and had one bad game today. Look at his game logs, and see that he has been raising his average slowly.

Juan Uribe has the glove, but is a horrible horrible hitter with no potential. Alexei can and probably will be a really good hitter (and a decent fielder at that).

Yep. Agreed wholeheartedly. He had a bad game tonight, but had been on a tear up to then. Foolish statements are foolish.

1989
06-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Was Alexei's at bat in the 8th the worst in the history of baseball?

Alexei's at bat in the 6th?

ChicagoG19
06-10-2009, 09:34 PM
They better put this **** together before I go up to Milwaukee this weekend.

BleacherBandit
06-10-2009, 09:34 PM
This might be about the time that all of the bandwagon fans that we picked up in 2005 drop off.

The ones that dismissed 2007 as a fluke anyway. This team is going to be good eventually. But not for quite awhile, and I think that's quite apparent.

No, they dropped off after 2007.

Woofer
06-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Do you people really want to blow **** up and trade Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, Jenks, whomever?

I'm glad you'd enjoy watching your team **** the bed for a few years and be the worst team in the AL.

Frankly, I don't want to see that.

Me either. At this point, it looks like we are aproaching the point of no return.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Do you people really want to blow **** up and trade Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, Jenks, whomever?

I don't want to blow it up entirely, but you might as well get some value for the players that won't be here next year anyways. Especially if you are certain you won't be contending.

PhillipsBubba
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
When a pitcher like Verlander pitches like that, not much you can do....

I agree...that's why it's never a good idea to give away two games prior to facing him...

canOcorn
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Do you people really want to blow **** up and trade Thome, Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, Jenks, whomever?

I'm glad you'd enjoy watching your team **** the bed for a few years and be the worst team in the AL.

Frankly, I don't want to see that.

Well, we're pretty damn close to that with them so......JT, PK, JD are absolutely available in my book.

Rohan
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
At least Ozzie can laugh about Paul Konerko getting injured :angry:

thomas35forever
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Why the hell is Ozzie laughing? This is no laughing matter.

guillensdisciple
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
I think Ozzie is hiding tears behind the laughter.

BleacherBandit
06-10-2009, 09:37 PM
Ozzie:

"Konerko should talk to Carlos May, it may help him."
:redneck

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:37 PM
I think you're looking at it.

Possibly, but there's a lot of bad teams if you look around; Royals, Indians, etc.

I just don't understand why people want to be the Nats.

yazz32
06-10-2009, 09:38 PM
same thumb injury as before to Konerko Ozzie just said in the press conf.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:38 PM
Well, we're pretty damn close to that with them so......JT, PK, JD are absolutely available in my book.

I don't want to blow it up entirely, but you might as well get some value for the players that won't be here next year anyways. Especially if you are certain you won't be contending.

Do you really think we'll get anything of real value for them?

Konerko05
06-10-2009, 09:38 PM
This season is about to get embarassing.

TheAnswer32
06-10-2009, 09:39 PM
Remind me again why we can't use a computerized strike zone and instant replays on close calls i.e. Wise last night, Inge and Beckham tonight?

GlassSox
06-10-2009, 09:39 PM
They better put this **** together before I go up to Milwaukee this weekend.

I agree, here's hoping :praying:

WhiteSoxOnly
06-10-2009, 09:39 PM
Honest to Christ,i've been holding back this entire homestand but
i can't stand it any longer.This team just stinks to high heaven and
they are losing every way you can think of.Pitch good,don't hit for
****.Hit a little,pitching can't support it.Hit a lot,like THAT ****ing
happens,we give up one more.Get a lead to the back end of the
pen,sorry we lose there to.Guys thrown out on the basepaths,can't
hit with RISP to save our lives,infielders ****ing up easy plays.

What a ****ing nightmare.A rookie loafing after a ball that got
away from him.Two *******s playing like ****,and having the balls
to piss and moan about the fans,the manager,and the GM...screw
it Kenny,whenever you want to blow this stinkbomb up,fine by me.
Someone needs to go off in the clubhouse,the captain would be my
choice.Nobody expects him to so a little shock value might work.
****,toss the spread if you have to.Nobody will get hit anyways. :angry:

johnnyg83
06-10-2009, 09:39 PM
This season is about to get embarassing.

I take issue with your verb tense.

ShoelessJoeS
06-10-2009, 09:39 PM
Why the hell is Ozzie laughing? This is no laughing matter.What else can you do?? I'm sure he is beyond frustrated, but this team is laughable.

thomas35forever
06-10-2009, 09:39 PM
Possibly, but there's a lot of bad teams if you look around; Royals, Indians, etc.

I just don't understand why people want to be the Nats.
Because they either don't want to be us or they don't know really ****ty baseball when they see it. To them, it's better to get blown out every night instead of losing like we currently are.

PhillipsBubba
06-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Hey! We're only 6.5 games out of first place. And remember, although we are 6 games under .500, we were in .500 JUST LAST WEEK and we were on a tear back then!

You remind me of the soldier under Custer's command who said...

"Hey, look over that hill...I think they're friendly Indians!":smile:

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:42 PM
Because they either don't want to be us or they don't know really ****ty baseball when they see it. To them, it's better to get blown out every night instead of losing like we currently are.

We've been lucky that 2007 sets the recent standard as a really bad season for the Sox. Having been a fan since the early 90's, I feel very lucky that I have never seen a truly awful Sox team. Why some people think that is the answer is beyond me.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:42 PM
Do you really think we'll get anything of real value for them?

It really depends. That's Kenny's business. If he thinks we can adequately fill whatever holes we make by next year, go for it. Especially for those players he has no intention on resigning. I think "Fire Sale" isn't the correct term. Just because we might have some pieces to sell doesn't mean we will be trading future fixtures a la the Pirates.

DonnieDarko
06-10-2009, 09:45 PM
Good God. This team is impossible to watch. It kills me a little bit on the inside every game.

BleacherBandit
06-10-2009, 09:45 PM
What else can you do?? I'm sure he is beyond frustrated, but this team is laughable.

And plus, that Carlos May joke was hillarious.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:45 PM
I hesitate to kick a man while he's down, but if Konerko goes to the DL, Fields will most likely be at 1st and we might have to see Lillibridge again. :(:

CHISOXFAN13
06-10-2009, 09:45 PM
We've been lucky that 2007 was a really bad for the Sox. Having been a fan since the early 90's, I feel very lucky that I have never seen a truly awful Sox team. Why some people think that is the answer is beyond me.

Do you really think the Sox will be contenders with aging vets next season if they aren't now?

Im not advocating trading everyone, but there are a few players (Dye and Dotel) who I think can net a nice return.

Thome won't be back next year either so why wouldn't you look to deal him if there's a taker?

The Sox will never be the Nats. We haven't been that bad since 1989. And they never will be again with an aggressive GM and an owner who spends a respectable amount of money to improve the team.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:46 PM
It really depends. That's Kenny's business. If he thinks we can adequately fill whatever holes we make by next year, go for it. Especially for those players he has no intention on resigning. I think "Fire Sale" isn't the correct term. Just because we might have some pieces to sell doesn't mean we will be trading future fixtures a la the Pirates.

The players with deals up at the end of the season are Thome, Dotel and Contreras. Jose has no real value right now. Dotel would obviously bring back interest, but even still, I don't see him bringing back anything more than a mid-level prospect. Thome might still be a good hitter, but he'd have to be a DH and I don't see a huge need for them around the AL right now.

Teams just don't give up really good prospects anymore. You have to trade something of value to get it in return; that would be good, young, cheap players. It seems much more of a crapshoot now.

DonnieDarko
06-10-2009, 09:46 PM
I hesitate to kick a man while he's down, but if Konerko goes to the DL, Fields will most likely be at 1st and we might have to see Lillibridge again. :(:

With how he's doing in Charlotte? I seriously hope not.

Harry Potter
06-10-2009, 09:47 PM
We have lost 3 1 run games in this series. IN THIS SERIES:o:

But hey, no shutouts!

Vienna
06-10-2009, 09:47 PM
With apologies to Lee Elia, "I'll tell you one ****ing thing. I hope we get ****ing hotter than ****."

Love it!

Martinigirl
06-10-2009, 09:48 PM
This season may have just ended. If there is any long term injury to Paulie the season is over.

That was my exact thought. He really is the only person that I think even has a shot to get runners in from scoring position. If he is gone we are irrevocably screwed.

ShoelessJoeS
06-10-2009, 09:48 PM
Do you really think the Sox will be contenders with aging vets next season if they aren't now?

Im not advocating trading everyone, but there are a few players (Dye and Dotel) who I think can net a nice return.

Thome won't be back next year either so why wouldn't you look to deal him if there's a taker?

The Sox will never be the Nats. We haven't been that bad since 1989. And they never will be again with an aggressive GM and an owner who spends a respectable amount of money to improve the team.Ortiz is garbage, and I'm sure he would like to go to a contender if anything. In any case, I'm sure we would have to eat a lot of his contract though.

canOcorn
06-10-2009, 09:49 PM
Do you really think we'll get anything of real value for them?

JD, sure. Cut/dump salary and use that (plus all the profit Jerry has taken from his salary dump/ticket raise) to throw at our wasted 17th round pick that won't sign unless we make a respectable offer.....

TheAnswer32
06-10-2009, 09:49 PM
With how he's doing in Charlotte? I seriously hope not.

Awful, he is batting like 220. If Konerko goes on the DL, Ward will get the call for sure.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:49 PM
Do you really think the Sox will be contenders with aging vets next season if they aren't now?

Im not advocating trading everyone, but there are a few players (Dye and Dotel) who I think can net a nice return.

Thome won't be back next year either so why wouldn't you look to deal him if there's a taker?

The Sox will never be the Nats. We haven't been that bad since 1989. And they never will be again with an aggressive GM and an owner who spends a respectable amount of money to improve the team.

If we get rid of all of are good hitters [say, Thome, Konerko and Dye], then perhaps not the Nats, but I don't see who we'd have as middle of the order hitters next season. Not Nats bad, but certainly the worst Sox team in 20 years. Trading away vets to bring up kids who may not be ready is neither an answer for the present or the future.

I don't think Thome, Dye, and Dotel will bring back equal value; that is, more than they are currently worth to the Sox.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:50 PM
JD, sure. Cut/dump salary and use that (plus all the profit Jerry has taken from his salary dump/ticket raise) to throw at our wasted 17th round pick that won't sign unless we make a respectable offer.....

Trade away one of our best hitters to throw money at a teenager who, odds are, never pans out. Awesome plan.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 09:50 PM
Do you really think the Sox will be contenders with aging vets next season if they aren't now?

Im not advocating trading everyone, but there are a few players (Dye and Dotel) who I think can net a nice return.

Thome won't be back next year either so why wouldn't you look to deal him if there's a taker?

The Sox will never be the Nats. We haven't been that bad since 1989. And they never will be again with an aggressive GM and an owner who spends a respectable amount of money to improve the team.Wow, on your points I completely agree. I love Dye, but let's get some value for him. Having not watched the game tonight i find this thread absolutely amazing though. I've never seen the board this, dare I say, in agreeement on how bad this team has been. I think that's the scariest thing. We have nutters, we have pollyanna's but for the most part everyone's sick of this and seeing the same thing. Blow it up Kenny.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:51 PM
The players with deals up at the end of the season are Thome, Dotel and Contreras. Jose has no real value right now. Dotel would obviously bring back interest, but even still, I don't see him bringing back anything more than a mid-level prospect. Thome might still be a good hitter, but he'd have to be a DH and I don't see a huge need for them around the AL right now.

Teams just don't give up really good prospects anymore. You have to trade something of value to get it in return; that would be good, young, cheap players. It seems much more of a crapshoot now.

You never know with the amount of teams that need bullpen help. Dotel could fetch you something useful, so could Dye. I know alot of people want him back, but the orgnization might have other ideas. Jenks could net you something noteworthy as well. I would like him to stay, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he is being shopped.

Woofer
06-10-2009, 09:53 PM
We've been lucky that 2007 sets the recent standard as a really bad season for the Sox. Having been a fan since the early 90's, I feel very lucky that I have never seen a truly awful Sox team. Why some people think that is the answer is beyond me.

I've been a fan since the late 70's. I've seen plenty of bad Sox baseball. In a city as big as Chicago, with millions of fans in the surrounding region, hearing White Flag part two talk sickens me.
This team should be a mix of stars, vets and rising talent. To blow it all up and go young makes me feel like we are trying to be the Nats or Pirates.:angry:

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 09:56 PM
You never know with the amount of teams that need bullpen help. Dotel could fetch you something useful, so could Dye. I know alot of people want him back, but the orgnization might have other ideas. Jenks could net you something noteworthy as well. I would like him to stay, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he is being shopped.

I just think every fanbase has the tendency to overrate their own players. I don't think there is a huge demand for aging, expensive, slow sluggers. Sure, we could get something in return for them, but not younger players who could put up .900 OPS' for the next year or two. Trading them just to get younger would be a mistake, and I don't think any team would part with real quality talent in return.

MarkZ35
06-10-2009, 09:57 PM
Honest to Christ,i've been holding back this entire homestand but
i can't stand it any longer.This team just stinks to high heaven and
they are losing every way you can think of.Pitch good,don't hit for
****.Hit a little,pitching can't support it.Hit a lot,like THAT ****ing
happens,we give up one more.Get a lead to the back end of the
pen,sorry we lose there to.Guys thrown out on the basepaths,can't
hit with RISP to save our lives,infielders ****ing up easy plays.

What a ****ing nightmare.A rookie loafing after a ball that got
away from him.Two *******s playing like ****,and having the balls
to piss and moan about the fans,the manager,and the GM...screw
it Kenny,whenever you want to blow this stinkbomb up,fine by me.
Someone needs to go off in the clubhouse,the captain would be my
choice.Nobody expects him to so a little shock value might work.
****,toss the spread if you have to.Nobody will get hit anyways. :angry:
Ha ha is this Dennis Quaid from the movie Major League?

GoGoCrede
06-10-2009, 09:57 PM
I missed this one. I guess the only positive I can think of is that Danks had a good outing. I did see on my text updates that there was a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs, and he was stranded. Who were the culprits there?

daveeym
06-10-2009, 09:58 PM
If we get rid of all of are good hitters [say, Thome, Konerko and Dye], then perhaps not the Nats, but I don't see who we'd have as middle of the order hitters next season. Not Nats bad, but certainly the worst Sox team in 20 years. Trading away vets to bring up kids who may not be ready is neither an answer for the present or the future.

I don't think Thome, Dye, and Dotel will bring back equal value; that is, more than they are currently worth to the Sox.You can't look at those three in a vacuum. They're old so be it. We suck, so be it. I understand your feelings about equal value but that's not what's important here. Equal value keeps us a ****ty team, what might be viewed as lesser value in your eyes will give us salary room and possibly 1-2 really good young guys ( I don't want to say prospects since that would be even worse). I love all three of the guys listed, and you probably won't get immediate "equal value" but that doesn't mean you keep them. The future with them sucks, no fault of their own, but even if you don't get "equal value" you can still improve this team by trading them. It's better than letting them walk off into free agency or retirement.

PhillipsBubba
06-10-2009, 09:59 PM
As I posted a few days ago...perhaps it's time to "White Flag" it....with each succeeding loss there seems to be an increasing groundswell of support for that suggestion:scratch:

http://snaggingbaseballs.mlblogs.com/october_3_1959-thumb-550x678.jpg

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 09:59 PM
I just think every fanbase has the tendency to overrate their own players. I don't think there is a huge demand for aging, expensive, slow sluggers. Sure, we could get something in return for them, but not younger players who could put up .900 OPS' for the next year or two. Trading them just to get younger would be a mistake, and I don't think any team would part with real quality talent in return.

I don't expect a Matt Laporta like CC fetched last year, but there is some value to be had. The Reds would love a power bat for RF, and they are probably still interested in Dye. It said in the Tribune yesterday that scouts from 8 teams were in attendance for the Sox doubleheader. There is surely interest. (I still like Homer Bailey for what it's worth. He is right up Coop's alley.)

SCCWS
06-10-2009, 10:01 PM
The Indians more or less blew it up a few years back when they dumped the vets including Thome. Now the kids are of age and they suck

Brian26
06-10-2009, 10:01 PM
I hesitate to kick a man while he's down, but if Konerko goes to the DL, Fields will most likely be at 1st and we might have to see Lillibridge again. :(:

At that point, you have to go with Fields to give him a chance to show what he's got so Kenny knows what he needs going into 2010. Keep Bacon at 3B and Fields at 1B. I'd imagine Dye would be the backup 1B.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:02 PM
You can't look at those three in a vacuum. They're old so be it. We suck, so be it. I understand your feelings about equal value but that's not what's important here. Equal value keeps us a ****ty team, what might be viewed as lesser value in your eyes will give us salary room and possibly 1-2 really good young guys ( I don't want to say prospects since that would be even worse). I love all three of the guys listed, and you probably won't get immediate "equal value" but that doesn't mean you keep them. The future with them sucks, no fault of their own, but even if you don't get "equal value" you can still improve this team by trading them. It's better than letting them walk off into free agency or retirement.

I just don't see anyone giving up any 'really good young guys' for Dotel or Dye.

As I posted a few days ago...perhaps it's time to "White Flag" it....with each succeeding loss there seems to be an increasing groundswell of support for that suggestion:scratch:

Thankfully, popular opinion isn't necessarily the wise one.

Brian26
06-10-2009, 10:02 PM
The Indians more or less blew it up a few years back when they dumped the vets including Thome. Now the kids are of age and they suck

Except for when they were one game away from the World Series less than two seasons ago.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:03 PM
Ha ha is this Dennis Quaid from the movie Major League?

Dennis Quaid was in Major League?

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:04 PM
I just think every fanbase has the tendency to overrate their own players. I don't think there is a huge demand for aging, expensive, slow sluggers. Sure, we could get something in return for them, but not younger players who could put up .900 OPS' for the next year or two. Trading them just to get younger would be a mistake, and I don't think any team would part with real quality talent in return.I realize you haven't necessarily had a chance to respond to my post but WHY would you keep these guys then? As I said, it's not because they're bad, I don't want them shipped out like I'd like Wise shipped out but three old, but good/decent players, won't get you to the playoffs. So why worry about equal value? Get the BEST value for them that you can and improve this team for the future.

chisoxfanatic
06-10-2009, 10:05 PM
The only positive here is that I sold my ticket on StubHub 14 minutes before it expired and have received the entire cost of the ticket back from the sale! I went grocery shopping instead.

Hearing that Konerko got hurt...I guess when it rains, it pours.

What a bad homestand. Can we at least finish .333 on this homestand???

SoxSpeed22
06-10-2009, 10:05 PM
I don't know what we can get for Thome, especially since he can only play DH. There is going to be a market for Dotel and Dye. Dotel has experience closing, and as a setup man. There are teams who could use a better closer. Dye can be a good slugger in the middle of the order and can still play a good right field. The trick is how much of his contract we're going to have to eat. But, let's hope it doesn't come down to that.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:06 PM
I realize you haven't necessarily had a chance to respond to my post but WHY would you keep these guys then? As I said, it's not because they're bad, I don't want them shipped out like I'd like Wise shipped out but three old, but good/decent players, won't get you to the playoffs. So why worry about equal value? Get the BEST value for them that you can and improve this team for the future.

If you solely mean the players whose contract is up at the end of the season, then sure.

But anyone else, what future do you mean? I'd like this team to win in 2010. I don't want to trade Dye, especially not if Thome is gone at the end of the year. If you do, outside of Konerko, who are your middle of the order hitters next year? If you think the offense is bad now...

billyvsox
06-10-2009, 10:08 PM
Nice Homestand!

IMO - we keep Paulie, Alexi, Beckham, Quentin, Getz, Burhrle, Floyd, Danks, Poreda, Jenks, Thornton.............everybody else is trade bait, for youth, speed, and BRAINS!!

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:13 PM
If you solely mean the players whose contract is up at the end of the season, then sure.

But anyone else, what future do you mean? I'd like this team to win in 2010. I don't want to trade Dye, especially not if Thome is gone at the end of the year. If you do, outside of Konerko, who are your middle of the order hitters next year? If you think the offense is bad now...
Understood, but combined with the front office limitations (you know, not being the yanksox and able to buy any player) and the team makeup now, what's the difference between .500 and last place? No playoffs either way and you get less and less value for these guys. If you keep them, you might feel all warm and fuzzy but you're still stuck with a revolving door of crap players around that middle of the order, that at the same time is a very one dimensional middle of the order.

JB98
06-10-2009, 10:14 PM
I missed this one. I guess the only positive I can think of is that Danks had a good outing. I did see on my text updates that there was a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs, and he was stranded. Who were the culprits there?

You can ascertain that information by reading my TBGR (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3802). :D:

Three one-run losses in this series. Teams that go to the playoffs win these types of games. Teams that suck lose them.

The Sox suck this year. There are 102 games left, unfortunately. As fans, we're gonna wear it all summer. Sorry, but that's how it is.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:15 PM
Understood, but combined with the front office limitations (you know, not being the yanksox and able to buy any player) and the team makeup now, what's the difference between .500 and last place? No playoffs either way and you get less and less value for these guys. If you keep them, you might feel all warm and fuzzy but you're still stuck with a revolving door of crap players around that middle of the order, that at the same time is a very one dimensional middle of the order.

So you're willing to give up on 2010 now?

CHISOXFAN13
06-10-2009, 10:15 PM
The Indians more or less blew it up a few years back when they dumped the vets including Thome. Now the kids are of age and they suck

The Indians took the Red Sox to game seven of the ALCS in 2007 and have had more injuries than any other team in baseball since.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:19 PM
The Indians took the Red Sox to game seven of the ALCS in 2007 and have had more injuries than any other team in baseball since.

The Indians have also greatly benefited by an astoundingly stupid trade by the Expos. Where would they be without Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore?

voodoochile
06-10-2009, 10:19 PM
Nice Homestand!

IMO - we keep Paulie, Alexi, Beckham, Quentin, Getz, Burhrle, Floyd, Danks, Poreda, Jenks, Thornton.............everybody else is trade bait, for youth, speed, and BRAINS!!

So you're willing to trade everyone who is:

A) a FA next year.

B) a highly paid bullpen pitcher

C) a sucky player with little upside if any

D) named Jermaine Dye

What you planning on reaping for these players?

My guess is that the most you'll get is some unproven bullpen arms, some A ball pitchers with potential and a bunch of AAAA players.

If you wait a little longer you might get a bit more for Dotel, Linebrink and Dye, but the market isn't fully formed yet.

Also, for all the wailing and moaning if the Sox win tomorrow, it's 5.5 games on June 11th. That's not insurmountable.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:23 PM
So you're willing to give up on 2010 now?Give me a scenario where keeping these productive but aging guys gives us a 2010? A real scenario, knowing our budget limitations (not that I think we're cheap) but that we get outbid for the best talent and that we're not filling any holes on this team without trading these guys. 2010 is pretty much shot if you keep these guys, if kenny is as good as many of us think, trading these guys for value and getting some luck on some free agents is the only way to give us a 2010. The status quo gets us nowhere. Again .500 doesn't get us to the playoffs, some shrewd moves and luck might, especially when you're freeing payroll. This isn't an indictment of any of those 3-4 guys talent, it's just what the situation is.

GlassSox
06-10-2009, 10:23 PM
So you're willing to trade everyone who is:

A) a FA next year.

B) a highly paid bullpen pitcher

C) a sucky player with little upside if any

D) named Jermaine Dye

What you planning on reaping for these players?

My guess is that the most you'll get is some unproven bullpen arms, some A ball pitchers with potential and a bunch of AAAA players.

If you wait a little longer you might get a bit more for Dotel, Linebrink and Dye, but the market isn't fully formed yet.

Also, for all the wailing and moaning if the Sox win tomorrow, it's 5.5 games on June 11th. That's not insurmountable.

Thanks for a voice of reason. I'm not ready give up yet either.

canOcorn
06-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Trade away one of our best hitters to throw money at a teenager who, odds are, never pans out. Awesome plan.

Sit back, do nothing and finish in 4th place. Awesome plan.

twinsuck
06-10-2009, 10:30 PM
hmmm, we lost, but I still don't think Detroit is that good, the sox are just.....bad.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Thanks for a voice of reason. I'm not ready give up yet either.
Don't encourage the pollyanna:cool: I'm a dark cloud hater but as I stated earlier I've rarely seen a thread so uniformly pessimistic. In a bad division and getting towards midseason, calling that post "a voice of reason" is stretching it. No graves are dug yet but it's not looking all that great.

chisoxfanatic
06-10-2009, 10:33 PM
hmmm, we lost, but I still don't think Detroit is that good, the sox are just.....bad.
They won't have to be good to win this division.

voodoochile
06-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Don't encourage the pollyanna:cool: I'm a dark cloud hater but as I stated earlier I've rarely seen a thread so uniformly pessimistic. In a bad division and getting towards midseason, calling that post "a voice of reason" is stretching it. No graves are dug yet but it's not looking all that great.
Who said I was happy? Not being willing to quit isn't the same thing as thinking the Sox are playing well and expecting great things. I agree the time is coming when a decision about whether to go for it or cut our losses is approaching and faster than I would like, but it's not tomorrow even if we lose, IMO.

JB98
06-10-2009, 10:34 PM
Don't encourage the pollyanna:cool: I'm a dark cloud hater but as I stated earlier I've rarely seen a thread so uniformly pessimistic. In a bad division and getting towards midseason, calling that post "a voice of reason" is stretching it. No graves are dug yet but it's not looking all that great.

I've always said that it is no longer early when you hit the 60-game mark. After 60 games, you have a pretty good feel for what you have.

Tonight was the 60th game, and I think I can see where this is headed. I would be shocked if they turn this thing around in time to prevent KW from unloading high-salaried vets at the deadline.

If that's what KW feels he has to do, that's OK with me. I'm in favor of change.

LoveYourSuit
06-10-2009, 10:35 PM
Also, for all the wailing and moaning if the Sox win tomorrow, it's 5.5 games on June 11th. That's not insurmountable.


I have to give it to you Voodo.

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/titanic/bernhll.jpg

Captain Edward John Smith.

WhiteSox5187
06-10-2009, 10:36 PM
Well, there was a caller on the post game show who said it all: bad teams find a way to lose games and we are a bad team.

Britt Burns
06-10-2009, 10:37 PM
The games are just getting more and more painful to watch.

GlassSox
06-10-2009, 10:38 PM
Don't encourage the pollyanna:cool: I'm a dark cloud hater but as I stated earlier I've rarely seen a thread so uniformly pessimistic. In a bad division and getting towards midseason, calling that post "a voice of reason" is stretching it. No graves are dug yet but it's not looking all that great.

Definitely not playing good in a not so good division is not encouraging but also some of the posts about blowing it up without a logical succession plan is not the answer. I don't think that there is an easy answer to this one.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:39 PM
Don't encourage the pollyanna:cool: I'm a dark cloud hater but as I stated earlier I've rarely seen a thread so uniformly pessimistic. In a bad division and getting towards midseason, calling that post "a voice of reason" is stretching it. No graves are dug yet but it's not looking all that great.

Yeah, I'm not optimistic as to the Sox chances this season.

That said, fans of a team should have a 'never say Dye' attitude. Unfortunately, same would rather just give up and trade him.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:41 PM
Who said I was happy? Not being willing to quit isn't the same thing as thinking the Sox are playing well and expecting great things. I agree the time is coming when a decision about whether to go for it or cut our losses is approaching and faster than I would like, but it's not tomorrow even if we lose, IMO.
That's fair enough and, dare I say, the voodoo I know. Quite honestly I've felt you've been a pollyanna this year and trapped in almost a partisan defense of the sox and fending off the dark cloud posters. Lord knows I've seen the worst of this board but as I said this thread has a pretty unique tone. The dark clouds are rather understated and a lot of the rational people seem to be seeing the writing on the wall. Sure in this division and with the talent and if things go well, the sox have a chance. It doesn't look good though and a rational opinion of this team right now doesn't scream "dark cloud" to me. And I know that hasn't been thrown out there tonight, I'm just saying. I'm glad some can keep some hope but the sox are bad right now and there's not as many hopeful signs that they're going to get it together. This team is really being held together by duct tape at this point, it's not looking pretty.

LoveYourSuit
06-10-2009, 10:43 PM
Definitely not playing good in a not so good division is not encouraging but also some of the posts about blowing it up without a logical succession plan is not the answer. I don't think that there is an easy answer to this one.


Blowing it up doesn't make any sense right now because we are quickly finding out that this first phase of young players suck to the highest extreme (BA, Getz, Fields, Richard, Broadway, etc).

The Second phase is probably not ready to contribute to a winner until 2011.

So, do we just write off 2010 here too?

We have to find a way to piece this thing together, you can't afford to lose the fan base once again.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:43 PM
Sit back, do nothing and finish in 4th place. Awesome plan.

Give me a scenario where keeping these productive but aging guys gives us a 2010? A real scenario, knowing our budget limitations (not that I think we're cheap) but that we get outbid for the best talent and that we're not filling any holes on this team without trading these guys. 2010 is pretty much shot if you keep these guys, if kenny is as good as many of us think, trading these guys for value and getting some luck on some free agents is the only way to give us a 2010. The status quo gets us nowhere. Again .500 doesn't get us to the playoffs, some shrewd moves and luck might, especially when you're freeing payroll. This isn't an indictment of any of those 3-4 guys talent, it's just what the situation is.

Well, Thome, Contreras and Dotel are coming off the backs this season. I'm fine with trading them in a month or whatever. Even if we don't, that's still nearly $30 million coming off the books this offseason. That should be enough to cover some holes. Dye has an option for next season. I'm inclined to pick it up, unless there are free agents out there who consistently put up a .900 OPS. Getting rid of one-dimensional sluggers just because they are aging could just create more holes than needed.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:44 PM
Blowing it up doesn't make any sense right now because we are quickly finding out that this first phase of young players suck to the highest extreme (BA, Getz, Fields, Richard, Broadway, etc).

The Second phase is probably not ready to contribute to a winner until 2011.

So, do we just write off 2010 here too?

We have to find a way to piece this thing together, you can't afford to lose the fan base once again.

I often disagree with you, but not on this post. Well said.

DirtySox
06-10-2009, 10:46 PM
Blowing it up doesn't make any sense right now because we are quickly finding out that this first phase of young players suck to the highest extreme (BA, Getz, Fields, Richard, Broadway, etc).

The Second phase is probably not ready to contribute to a winner until 2011.

So, do we just write off 2010 here too?

We have to find a way to piece this thing together, you can't afford to lose the fan base once again.

Next year will be quite interesting. The Sox have alot of money coming off the books, but at the same time there will likely be more young players added to the mix. Brandon Allen will likely be on the team, if Jordan Danks keeps hitting so will he. Flowers is also a possibility at some point in 2010. It is probably good that Beckham gets his growing pains out of the way this year, and the same with Poreda.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:47 PM
I've always said that it is no longer early when you hit the 60-game mark. After 60 games, you have a pretty good feel for what you have.

Tonight was the 60th game, and I think I can see where this is headed. I would be shocked if they turn this thing around in time to prevent KW from unloading high-salaried vets at the deadline.

If that's what KW feels he has to do, that's OK with me. I'm in favor of change.

I have to give it to you Voodo.

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/titanic/bernhll.jpg

Captain Edward John Smith.

The games are just getting more and more painful to watch.

Well, there was a caller on the post game show who said it all: bad teams find a way to lose games and we are a bad team.

Definitely not playing good in a not so good division is not encouraging but also some of the posts about blowing it up without a logical succession plan is not the answer. I don't think that there is an easy answer to this one.

Yeah, I'm not optimistic as to the Sox chances this season.

That said, fans of a team should have a 'never say Dye' attitude. Unfortunately, same would rather just give up and trade him.These are the posts between Voodoo's response to me and my next post. Not typical WSI, not too much passion here and pretty resigned. Even got DSpivack to cave a bit, and to you I say, dye's my favorite position player on the team, but if this continues even an mvp year by him does us less good than trading him.

shingo10
06-10-2009, 10:48 PM
In a mediocore division this year is far from over. We play Detroit 9 more times. History would show that Verlander isn't going to be able to keep up his unreal run of solid pitching. Obviously we've seen first hand that their bullpen is far from lights out.

Sure we might sprial downwards from here on out but I don't think this is a lost season at all yet being June 10th.

The fate of every major league team changes from week to week. Next week we could be right back in it. No need to give up quite yet.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 10:52 PM
Well, Thome, Contreras and Dotel are coming off the backs this season. I'm fine with trading them in a month or whatever. Even if we don't, that's still nearly $30 million coming off the books this offseason. That should be enough to cover some holes. Dye has an option for next season. I'm inclined to pick it up, unless there are free agents out there who consistently put up a .900 OPS. Getting rid of one-dimensional sluggers just because they are aging could just create more holes than needed.I agree with you on Dye's value as an individual player, I disagree with you on his value to this team as trade bait and where this team is heading. Any contending team would be lucky to have a guy like Dye and hopefully we can get some decent value in return.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 10:53 PM
These are the posts between Voodoo's response to me and my next post. Not typical WSI, not too much passion here and pretty resigned. Even got DSpivack to cave a bit, and to you I say, dye's my favorite position player on the team, but if this continues even an mvp year by him does us less good than trading him.

I agree with you on Dye's value as an individual player, I disagree with you on his value to this team as trade bait and where this team is heading. Any contending team would be lucky to have a guy like Dye and hopefully we can get some decent value in return.

I just don't see the point of trading Dye, unless you enjoy watching 18 months of bad, bad White Sox baseball. I don't think he can bring in return someone good enough to replace him, thus you create more holes than you had in the first place. If you're willing to give up on 2010, and the growing pains of kids in 2011, why not add Konerko and Buehrle to the trading block?

Also, Dye has a NTC and will not accept a trade to 6 teams in the northeast. Besides those, who can take on his contract, and who would want him?

EDIT: Just saw your post above this one, quoted it but basically answering the same questions.

Dibbs
06-10-2009, 10:54 PM
This might be about the time that all of the bandwagon fans that we picked up in 2005 drop off.

The ones that dismissed 2007 as a fluke anyway. This team is going to be good eventually. But not for quite awhile, and I think that's quite apparent.

Join Date: Oct 2005

JB98
06-10-2009, 10:56 PM
I just don't see the point of trading Dye, unless you enjoy watching 18 months of bad, bad White Sox baseball. I don't think he can bring in return someone good enough to replace him, thus you create more holes than you had in the first place. If you're willing to give up on 2010, and the growing pains of kids in 2011, why not add Konerko and Buehrle to the trading block?

Also, Dye has a NTC and will not accept a trade to 6 teams in the northeast. Besides those, who can take on his contract, and who would want him?

I tend to agree with you. How much are other teams going to be willing to give up for a half season of Jermaine Dye? I think JD has a lot left in the tank, but still, it's hard for me to fathom anyone giving up MLB-ready prospects in order to have Dye on their team for 60- or 70-some games.

If the Sox have any designs at all on contending in 2010, they are better off retaining JD and making him the DH.

daveeym
06-10-2009, 11:00 PM
I just don't see the point of trading Dye, unless you enjoy watching 18 months of bad, bad White Sox baseball. I don't think he can bring in return someone good enough to replace him, thus you create more holes than you had in the first place. If you're willing to give up on 2010, and the growing pains of kids in 2011, why not add Konerko and Buehrle to the trading block?

Also, Dye has a NTC and will not accept a trade to 6 teams in the northeast. Besides those, who can take on his contract, and who would want him?
We're clearly at an impass here. I think that unfortunately dye is our best trade option to get something in return, it's easier to trade him for value over trading 5 other guys and building around dye for the maybe 3 years he's still got. Kenny always gives me hope but more than likely we're probably pretty bad for the next 18 months even if we keep dye. Again, he's our best hitter/position player on the team, but factor in his age and what others may bring in return even if he was to pull off an MVP season he's not doing us any good, through no fault of his own.

Lip Man 1
06-10-2009, 11:01 PM
This and That:

It's expected to be a buyer's market again this off season with Chone Figgins definitely available for one. If Kenny want to or gets approval from ownership there will be talent available to be had.

I agree that I'd like to keep Dye and move him to DH next year and keep Dotel but I have no idea how this is going to shake out, none at this point.

----------------

I've seen this 'home run or nothing' offense go into slumps this decade but has it ever been this bad?:

Courtesy of Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune:

"After an 0-for-6 performance, the Sox are 6-for-70 (.086) with runners in scoring position this month."

I am stunned into silence on this one.

Lip

hi im skot
06-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Join Date: Oct 2005

Awesome.

:thumbsup:

Whitesoxfan23
06-10-2009, 11:08 PM
And this season is Ovah. Heads are gonna roll. KW has said he's not afraid to make the moves. They totally took a huge crap on every single fan that went out this homestand. Time to tear it down.

JB98
06-10-2009, 11:11 PM
This and That:

It's expected to be a buyer's market again this off season with Chone Figgins definitely available for one. If Kenny want to or gets approval from ownership there will be talent available to be had.

I agree that I'd like to keep Dye and move him to DH next year and keep Dotel but I have no idea how this is going to shake out, none at this point.

----------------

I've seen this 'home run or nothing' offense go into slumps this decade but has it ever been this bad?:

Courtesy of Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune:

"After an 0-for-6 performance, the Sox are 6-for-70 (.086) with runners in scoring position this month."

I am stunned into silence on this one.

Lip

They should be able to do better than 6-for-70 on dumb luck.

They got bunts down in tonight's game. Funny thing about bunting: Moving the runner along doesn't do a damn bit of good if you can't knock 'em in.

palehozenychicty
06-10-2009, 11:11 PM
I don't know what's going to happen the rest of this year, but I feel like this team will be turned over next year sans a few players.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 11:17 PM
We're clearly at an impass here. I think that unfortunately dye is our best trade option to get something in return, it's easier to trade him for value over trading 5 other guys and building around dye for the maybe 3 years he's still got. Kenny always gives me hope but more than likely we're probably pretty bad for the next 18 months even if we keep dye. Again, he's our best hitter/position player on the team, but factor in his age and what others may bring in return even if he was to pull off an MVP season he's not doing us any good, through no fault of his own.

I tend to agree with you. How much are other teams going to be willing to give up for a half season of Jermaine Dye? I think JD has a lot left in the tank, but still, it's hard for me to fathom anyone giving up MLB-ready prospects in order to have Dye on their team for 60- or 70-some games.

If the Sox have any designs at all on contending in 2010, they are better off retaining JD and making him the DH.

JB98 said it well. Dye won't accept a trade to 6 teams in the NE. You say we should trade Dye and that you think he'll bring us a good return. Well, specifically, which teams can afford to take on his salary, and among those, who would actually want him? And, narrowing it down to teams that can afford and would want him, why would they give up good young talent to get him when the market for him isn't that wide? I'm not seeing too many takers out there.

Nelfox02
06-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Is this team a ship w/o a rudder? Does it appear like we have any plan as to how to address all the problems we have not only at the major league level, but in the minors as well. I made my peace with the death of the 2009 season, but what upsets me the most is that I have no optimism looking at next year, or the year after that. The "talent" this team has brought up from our farm system the last few seasons has been terrible. We cant play fundamental baseball at all, at what point is the coaching staff (not just Walker) held accountable for inability to move runners or play more than two games w/o committing an error? So Kenny blows this up this team, gets more mediocre talent that our organization cannot develop, where does that put us in 2010, 2011? We all know that this team will be awful, fans will stop coming to games and Chairman Jerry will continue his trend of reducing pay roll, does anyone honestly see him giving KW he go ahead to aggressively pursue expensive talent on the open market? A lot of ranting here, but had to get it off my chest :angry:

Soxfest
06-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Raise ticket prices another 11% this off season JR ........2009 is a complete waste!

pmck003
06-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Would a healthy TCQ have this team at 500 or so? I think Figgins + FA SP (esp. Bedard, Lackey, Harden, Myers) - Sox FA = a good chance in 2010. This assumes Getz develops into a decent role player and ignores any lefty-righty combinations in the line-up.

voodoochile
06-10-2009, 11:27 PM
That's fair enough and, dare I say, the voodoo I know. Quite honestly I've felt you've been a pollyanna this year and trapped in almost a partisan defense of the sox and fending off the dark cloud posters. Lord knows I've seen the worst of this board but as I said this thread has a pretty unique tone. The dark clouds are rather understated and a lot of the rational people seem to be seeing the writing on the wall. Sure in this division and with the talent and if things go well, the sox have a chance. It doesn't look good though and a rational opinion of this team right now doesn't scream "dark cloud" to me. And I know that hasn't been thrown out there tonight, I'm just saying. I'm glad some can keep some hope but the sox are bad right now and there's not as many hopeful signs that they're going to get it together. This team is really being held together by duct tape at this point, it's not looking pretty.

Well it's fair to say this homestand has been less than happymaking for me. After coming off a nice run. coming home and getting back to .500, I figured/hoped the Sox were on the verge of making a move and could easily see them in first place at the end of it, especially as mediocre as the Kittens had been playing. But, it's tough to deny the fact the Sox are struggling majorly at the moment and have not only undone all the good work they did in their hot streak but have managed to lose more games in the last 10 days than they gained when they were playing well prior to that.

Still, if they win tomorrow, they've only lost one game to Detroit in that span so the mathematics say it's still possible especially with 100+ games still to play. It's not that the Sox look like world beaters, but that the Kittens don't look that good and could easily struggle to win 90 games this year.

With injuries starting to mount and the Sox failing to execute on offense only a fool would be happy with the state of the team. Call me an eternal optimist, but please don't call me a fool. I agree that the injuries the team has sustained make this season even more resemble the first half of 1997 (Edit: Whoops - 2007), but I'll continue to hold onto hope smply because that's my nature and I don't really give a crap whether people think I'm silly for doing so. I think they're crazy to look at things the other way, so I guess that makes us even...

DrCrawdad
06-10-2009, 11:38 PM
Hey! We're only 6.5 games out of first place. And remember, although we are 6 games under .500, we were in .500 JUST LAST WEEK and we were on a tear back then!

I love your optimism. I don't share it right now but I hope it comes round your way.

It's Dankerific
06-10-2009, 11:45 PM
I just don't see the point of trading Dye, unless you enjoy watching 18 months of bad, bad White Sox baseball.

We're watching bad, bad White Sox baseball now. There is nothing that says thats going to be fixed even if we keep everyone on the team. I'd be pissed to see people traded to save money, but I wouldn't mind people being traded to bring back pieces that could eventually help the team.

russ99
06-10-2009, 11:48 PM
Is this team a ship w/o a rudder? Does it appear like we have any plan as to how to address all the problems we have not only at the major league level, but in the minors as well. I made my peace with the death of the 2009 season, but what upsets me the most is that I have no optimism looking at next year, or the year after that. The "talent" this team has brought up from our farm system the last few seasons has been terrible. We cant play fundamental baseball at all, at what point is the coaching staff (not just Walker) held accountable for inability to move runners or play more than two games w/o committing an error? So Kenny blows this up this team, gets more mediocre talent that our organization cannot develop, where does that put us in 2010, 2011? We all know that this team will be awful, fans will stop coming to games and Chairman Jerry will continue his trend of reducing pay roll, does anyone honestly see him giving KW he go ahead to aggressively pursue expensive talent on the open market? A lot of ranting here, but had to get it off my chest :angry:

Dude, I've been there for about 2 weeks now...

I just hope Kenny or Ozzie don't lose their jobs over this debacle. I can live with almost any other situation, even 100 losses...

chisoxfanatic
06-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Raise ticket prices another 11% this off season JR ........2009 is a complete waste!
Yea, I was pissed about this year's increase. I definitely am not renewing after this season. I can't afford Sox tickets when I am getting a Hawks ticket plan.

DSpivack
06-10-2009, 11:52 PM
We're watching bad, bad White Sox baseball now. There is nothing that says thats going to be fixed even if we keep everyone on the team. I'd be pissed to see people traded to save money, but I wouldn't mind people being traded to bring back pieces that could eventually help the team.

But I don't think getting rid of him necessarily makes us better in the future.

Again, he has a NTC to 6 teams in the NE. He is old and expensive. How many teams does that leave that can afford him and have a need in RF and/or DH? And, if there aren't that many takers in that case, would they really be willing to part with sufficient talent in return? I don't necessarily think so. Trading him just creates too big of a hole in the lineup for the foreseeable future, unless you really want to blow things up and plan for 2012 or 2013. But unless you're the Marlins, I don't recall that ever really working.

Lip Man 1
06-10-2009, 11:55 PM
Voodoo:

Actually with the injuries this reminds me of the 2001 season and the 2004 season and the 2007 season (although that was a lost cause from mid-May on)

Lip

TDog
06-11-2009, 01:16 AM
You remind me of the soldier under Custer's command who said...

"Hey, look over that hill...I think they're friendly Indians!":smile:

To quote Ed Norton from the old Honeymooners, or perhaps to quote someone who was quoting him.

Twice in this series White Sox pitchers have walked in runs against the Tigers. Each came in a game where the White Sox lost by one run.

In the game where the Sox didn't walk in a run, the Tigers did, and, really, it should have cost the Tigers the game.

The White Sox aren't playing great baseball, but the margin between winning and losing this week has been razor thin. It sort of reminds me of the first week of August in 1977 when losing close games to the Rangers sent the first-place White Sox into a death spiral.

I can understand the disappointment and frustration. But I don't understand the anger here.

guillensdisciple
06-11-2009, 03:28 AM
Take it how you will, but this team has 102 games remaining. So there is plenty of time to either suck A LOT, or come back and prove everyone wrong.

A few good winning streaks or a stretch of good baseball puts us back in any race, especially with this many games remaining. However, another stretch like this and we might be putting the nail in the coffin.

I have faith that this team will turn out okay. This regime can't let us down.

Whitesoxfan23
06-11-2009, 04:55 AM
I would love us to turn it around but how is that going to happen? Are Getz, Fields, BA, and Wise going to magically not suck anymore? Is our offense all of a sudden going to turn it around, when they still have the same problems they had since the last half of 2006? We barely won the division last year, and we looking more pathetic than we did last year. Josh Fields needs to take his pity party "everybody's always picking on me" attitude and get the hell out, and we have Wise a career minor leaguer who has always sucked complete ass, complaining about the fans giving him a hard time.

This team is a wreck right now. If some moves aren't made, we probably won't win this division. Everybody keeps saying that we are only 6.5 back, but this team hasn't showed any signs of turning it around at all, so in a couple of weeks it could be much worse than that, if something isn't done and soon. Cmon KW. Right your wrongs from the god awful atrocious off-season you gave us, and do something before the deadline.

WhiteSox1989
06-11-2009, 06:56 AM
This team just pisses me off. Because it's not like they consistently suck. That's what's so aggravating. That game against Greinke got me all excited about their offense.

Now, it's just blah. There was two times last night where Getz was on third and no one could get him in. All we need was a deep sac fly. I was sitting in the stands tempted to him palm to my face multiple times. Ah.

The only reason I have a LITTLE hope for this team is because I know Williams won't let this **** go on for long. I would be surprised if a trade didn't come by next week.

Anyway..get 'em today and Go Sox!

Tragg
06-11-2009, 08:54 AM
The Sox aren't a homre run or nothing team...they are 11th in homers. They are a free swinging team and there's little evidence that the staff wants them not to free-swing.

The philosophy of "move those runners up" was perfectly executed twice in the last 4 innings (accomplished by giving away 17% of the remaining outs)....how did that work out?

Sending a runner the other night with 1 out from third the other night. Why? When the Sox were set up to be in the exact position of "move the runners up" without giving up an out...plus in the exact point in a ballgame where it's extremely valuable: tied AND late innings. That he was safe is really beside the point - the ball beat him and the runner usually loses that call in that situation.

Some culpability belongs to the braintrust.

UChicagoHP
06-11-2009, 10:19 AM
Stop bunting Ozzie, it's not a smart move(not to mention your players kind of stink at it)...

I'm a big fan of yours, but bunting is a waste of an out in the vast majority of instances. Just stop, please...you are smarter than this, at least I hope you are.

spawn
06-11-2009, 10:22 AM
Stop bunting Ozzie, it's not a smart move...

I'm a big fan of yours, but bunting is a waste of an out in the vast majority of instances. Just stop, please...
No kidding. I mean, the way this team hits into double plays, bunting runners over just prolongs the inevitable.

UChicagoHP
06-11-2009, 10:24 AM
No kidding. I mean, the way this team hits into double plays, bunting runners over just prolongs the inevitable.


It's certainly pick your poison with this bunch, but I'll take my chances with the extra out 95% of the time. :gulp:

Tragg
06-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Stop bunting Ozzie, it's not a smart move(not to mention your players kind of stink at it)...

I'm a big fan of yours, but bunting is a waste of an out in the vast majority of instances. Just stop, please...you are smarter than this, at least I hope you are.
You lead off an inning with a double - finally a chance for a big inning. So Ozzie bunts, playing for 1 run.
Bunting when you're slumping is like show-betting at the track when you're losing every race at the wire. All it does is make things worse. YOu'll win $1.20 when your horse finally wins.

spawn
06-11-2009, 11:00 AM
You lead off an inning with a double - finally a chance for a big inning. So Ozzie bunts, playing for 1 run.

A big inning? Against Verlander? The way he was pitchnig yesterday? They had 2 hits total coming into the inning, and you expected Ozzie to play for a big inning? His team is down a run to a pitcher who has been pretty dominant all game, and has been dominant so far this season. I don't blame him one bit for trying to get the runner to 3rd for a chance to tie the game with a sac fly. :shrug:

LoveYourSuit
06-11-2009, 11:03 AM
Voodoo:

Actually with the injuries this reminds me of the 2001 season and the 2004 season and the 2007 season (although that was a lost cause from mid-May on)

Lip


I think the Sox are not sucking because of injuries.

They are sucking becasue people are not playing to their career numbers.

This team was bad even when Konerko and Quentin were healthy.

Scouting and the Farm has failed this team big time once again. Getz and Fields plus the CF situation has been a complete train wreck. Regression by many guys not helping either (Quentin, Alexei, Danks, Floyd).

Tragg
06-11-2009, 11:23 AM
A big inning? Against Verlander? The way he was pitchnig yesterday? They had 2 hits total coming into the inning, and you expected Ozzie to play for a big inning? His team is down a run to a pitcher who has been pretty dominant all game, and has been dominant so far this season. I don't blame him one bit for trying to get the runner to 3rd for a chance to tie the game with a sac fly. :shrug: YOu take a very favorable circumstance and turns it into a ceiling 1 run cirumstance that requires it to be perfectly executed with a bunt and the SF to score that 1 run.

Giving away outs is no way to end slumps and end scoring droughts - guillen gave away 17% of them in the last 4 innings. 1 run doesn't win that game.

I did a dance when Garner bunted for 1 run in the 9th. The Astros couldn't score for anything, and he flushed 1/3 of remaining outs down the toilet. Thanks again, Phil.