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View Full Version : *Official* "Another tough day at the office" 6/7/09 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
06-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Discuss.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 04:18 PM
Well that sucked

thomas35forever
06-07-2009, 04:19 PM
Lose five of our last six to last place teams. Not fun.:angry:

ms620
06-07-2009, 04:19 PM
The Sox have too many holes on their roster. If these holes are surrounded by superstars than it is ok. But the Sox do not have 1 superstar.

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 04:19 PM
Used to it by now.

Bad pitching and bad hitting today. The bases loaded situation with no outs and only getting one in from a walk was absolutely brutal.

ms620
06-07-2009, 04:20 PM
Used to it by now.

Bad pitching and bad hitting today. The bases loaded situation with no outs and only getting one in from a walk was absolutely brutal.

That inning changed when BA and his long swing came to the plate. Pitchers must love seeing him come up there. Was he within 6 inches of the ball?

stillz
06-07-2009, 04:20 PM
boring and depressing

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 04:21 PM
As I posted in the Game Thread, I'm starting to run out of patience with BA. I've been among his biggest supporters - and have been willing to wait to pass judgment until he's had 1000 MLB at-bats. But he's had 700 MLB at-bats. He might get another 300 this season. He needs to do something in those next 300 at-bats. I expect better performance with RISP, and overall a .250+ average, and a .750+ OPS. He's going to need to make better contact and also club some more XBHs.

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 04:22 PM
On the plus side, I was pleased with the performance of Brian26 today. He should be winner of the PTC for cullling posters in the gamethread with absolutely nothing worthwhile to add.

Cap tipping is in order.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 04:22 PM
Also, it's beyond time for Greg Walker to be gone.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 04:24 PM
Also, it's beyond time for Greg Walker to be gone.

This is not Walker's fault.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't know why, but for some reason I kinda expected the Sox to score more than one in the bottom of the eighth. But, after so long I suppose I should expect a horse **** performance from a horse **** team.

Viva Medias B's
06-07-2009, 04:25 PM
This is not Walker's fault.

You may be right about that, but Walk could be the sacrificial lamb to placate an ever increasingly angry fan base.

thomas35forever
06-07-2009, 04:26 PM
This is not Walker's fault.
What's not Walker's fault? The offense or the bases-loaded situation?

pasoxgal
06-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Today's game in particular doesn't seem to have been a FOBA vs. NoBA question, really... is anybody out there pleased with any aspect of the Sox hitting performance today? I'm going to go with "no foul balls or accidentally fumbled bats caused any animal or human injuries."

*whistles "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life"*

guillensdisciple
06-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Biggest series of the year coming up. No reason to kill anyone over this one. Make or break time now. If the Sox win the series they are still in it, but I fear that a loss to the Tigers will take the sails out of this team (they are already on the hinges). It is a shame to see a team with the capacity to win waste itself away.

I know Gordon will be a monster for years to come. He has great command of the plate, and has made contact during every at bat. Right now they are just not landing for hits.

If the White Sox float for a while, and play decent baseball, the return of Carlos Quentin will put them over the top. He is the all-star that we need, and I honestly believe that a healthy Carlos means a quality White Sox baseball team.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-07-2009, 04:26 PM
I don't have much confidence in Colon anymore. I never expected much from him, but he does not give the Sox much of a chance to win when he is pitching. He had a few decent starts early this year, yes, but I think it's a loss every time he takes the mound now.

As bad as Contreras has been, I would rather see him pitch instead of Colon. That said, when Colon and/or Contreras are your options and you don't have anyone else to go to, you're in trouble.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2009, 04:27 PM
This is not Walker's fault.

You know, it might not be but at some point someone has to be held accountable for this offense's lousy play.

Viva Medias B's
06-07-2009, 04:29 PM
Ozzie during the postgame presser: "When we have the bases loaded, we do what we do best." Ouch.

soxfandy
06-07-2009, 04:29 PM
With he bases loaded in the eighth and ba coming up I wish ozzie would have either pinched hit AJ or Thome. Then when Nix pinched hit I would of again rather seen which AJ or Thome (whichever one didnt bat for BA. I know there was a very tough lefty on the mound, but I would have taken my chances with the veteran lefties rather than the two young guys that can't hit the ball. Plus Thome has been pretty good against lefties this year. Maybe his numbers aren't good against perez?/

kobo
06-07-2009, 04:32 PM
Ozzie during the postgame presser: "When we have the bases loaded, we do what we do best." Ouch.
"Strike out." He seemed pretty pissed. No tirade, but you could tell he's frustrated and doesn't like the way the team is playing. He also said Colon needs another pitch because he can't survive pitching in the AL with just his fastball.

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 04:32 PM
If Colon and Contreras continue to falter, I'd like to see Torres called up. Might as well see what we have in him. Not like we have a whole lot to lose.

TDog
06-07-2009, 04:32 PM
Also, it's beyond time for Greg Walker to be gone.

It's time for some of today's starting lineup to be gone. I have no idea why anyone is surprised that Beckham is hitless, let alone didn't get a hit with the bases loaded and two outs with the Sox down by four in the eighth. I'm not second-guessing his callup. I was perplexed when it was announced and remain so.

Look at the lineup today. Castro has to play occasionally. But after Konerko, every hitter was a legitimate No. 9 hitter.

It doesn't help that the Sox once again on this homestand, were losing before they even came to bat.

The starting pitching is putting far more pressure on the offense than the offense is putting on the starting pitching.

Firing coaches isn't going to make any difference.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2009, 04:33 PM
With he bases loaded in the eighth and ba coming up I wish ozzie would have either pinched hit AJ or Thome. Then when Nix pinched hit I would of again rather seen which AJ or Thome (whichever one didnt bat for BA. I know there was a very tough lefty on the mound, but I would have taken my chances with the veteran lefties rather than the two young guys that can't hit the ball. Plus Thome has been pretty good against lefties this year. Maybe his numbers aren't good against perez?/

I kind of understand not pinch hitting AJ because you don't want to mess around with your backup catcher. But I was wondering why we didn't see Thome in there. I was thinking Thome might pinch hit for BA to be honest.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 04:34 PM
This upcoming Tiger series will determine the rest of the year.

soxfandy
06-07-2009, 04:35 PM
It's time for some of today's starting lineup to be gone. I have no idea why anyone is surprised that Beckham is hitless, let alone didn't get a hit with the bases loaded and two outs with the Sox down by four in the eighth. I'm not second-guessing his callup. I was perplexed when it was announced and remain so.

Look at the lineup today. Castro has to play occasionally. But after Konerko, every hitter was a legitimate No. 9 hitter.

It doesn't help that the Sox once again on this homestand, were losing before they even came to bat.

The starting pitching is putting far more pressure on the offense than the offense is putting on the starting pitching.

Firing coaches isn't going to make any difference.

bechham ripped that ball. u act like he looks clueless at the plate.

Rohan
06-07-2009, 04:36 PM
"Strike out." He seemed pretty pissed. No tirade, but you could tell he's frustrated and doesn't like the way the team is playing. He also said Colon needs another pitch because he can't survive pitching in the AL with just his fastball.

I wonder why there's no tirade... If his reasoning for not going on a tirade is what I think it is, then i've just about lost hope for the year.

If he won't go on a tirade because he thinks that this team is playing to the best of their ability, then, well maybe that's that.

TDog
06-07-2009, 04:37 PM
I kind of understand not pinch hitting AJ because you don't want to mess around with your backup catcher. But I was wondering why we didn't see Thome in there. I was thinking Thome might pinch hit for BA to be honest.

At the time I believed the lefty came in to prevent Guillen from pinch-hitting Thome or Pierzynski. I think he came in to face Castro, which is where I expected Pierzynski to pinch-hit before the change.

Whitesoxfan23
06-07-2009, 04:37 PM
Another terrible loss. The day Brian Anderson is either traded or gone from this team, will be a very happy day. He has had his chances, he flat out sucks balls at the plate.

voodoochile
06-07-2009, 04:38 PM
It's time for some of today's starting lineup to be gone. I have no idea why anyone is surprised that Beckham is hitless, let alone didn't get a hit with the bases loaded and two outs with the Sox down by four in the eighth. I'm not second-guessing his callup. I was perplexed when it was announced and remain so.

Look at the lineup today. Castro has to play occasionally. But after Konerko, every hitter was a legitimate No. 9 hitter.

It doesn't help that the Sox once again on this homestand, were losing before they even came to bat.

The starting pitching is putting far more pressure on the offense than the offense is putting on the starting pitching.

Firing coaches isn't going to make any difference.

Just to be picky, it took one heck of a diving catch to prevent Beckham's first hit in the 8th. When it left his bat, it had linedrive single up the middle written all over it. He just hit it a bit too hard and the CF made a great grab...

Soxfest
06-07-2009, 04:39 PM
Somebody has to be on the chopping block this effort this homestand is BS!

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 04:39 PM
Another terrible loss. The day Brian Anderson is either traded or gone from this team, will be a very happy day. He has had his chances, he flat out sucks balls at the plate.

Everyone sucks at the plate.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2009, 04:39 PM
I wonder why there's no tirade... If his reasoning for not going on a tirade is what I think it is, then i've just about lost hope for the year.

If he won't go on a tirade because he thinks that this team is playing to the best of their ability, then, well maybe that's that.

What will ranting and raving about how bad this offense is do to fix anything? It will just lead to him being called crazy by the press, but it's not like the team is going to suddenly start hitting because Ozzie called them out.

Whitesoxfan23
06-07-2009, 04:42 PM
If WSI had any FOGW, I am pretty sure they are no longer his friend.......

Viva Medias B's
06-07-2009, 04:44 PM
I wonder why there's no tirade... If his reasoning for not going on a tirade is what I think it is, then i've just about lost hope for the year.

If he won't go on a tirade because he thinks that this team is playing to the best of their ability, then, well maybe that's that.

I think Ozzie made some reference to "going crazy for the media" but said doing so would not be productive.

Martinigirl
06-07-2009, 04:44 PM
Colon should have been pulled a lot sooner because it was quite clear he didn't have it today. But Ozzie likes to let 5 or 6 runs score before pulling a starting pitcher.

The team may suck right now and I think their manager isn't much better.

Dick Allen
06-07-2009, 04:45 PM
The next clutch hit BA gets will be his first. Did anybody really think he would come though? Enough already.

TDog
06-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Just to be picky, it took one heck of a diving catch to prevent Beckham's first hit in the 8th. When it left his bat, it had linedrive single up the middle written all over it. He just hit it a bit too hard and the CF made a great grab...

I shouldn't have made it sound like it all fell on Beckham, which it didn't. The Sox ripped the ball against the A's into their superior defense and people complained that the Sox couldn't hit "inferior pitchers" (whose outings pretty much matched their previous outings against other teams). There I was just as wrong as those negative posters were.

I guess I'm frustrated because I think Beckham would be better served by developing his hitting in AAA and seeing him playing for the Sox is a sign that the Sox have given up on the season, or at least on finding a veteran who can play a solid third base.

Whitesoxfan23
06-07-2009, 04:47 PM
The next clutch hit BA gets will be his first. Did anybody really think he would come though? Enough already.


I am honestly completely puzzled by the BA love on this board. It should be an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.

Woofer
06-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Colon should have been pulled a lot sooner because it was quite clear he didn't have it today. But Ozzie likes to let 5 or 6 runs score before pulling a starting pitcher.

The team may suck right now and I think their manager isn't much better.

Part of the problem today was the looming doubleheader tomorrow. We have Richard pitching 1 start after his worst outing of the year, and then in the game after that, Contreras back on the mound. We will need the bullpen tomorrow. Guillen really had no choice but to leave in Colon as long as possible.

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 04:49 PM
Anyone else more excited about the draft then the actual game on Tuesday?

beasly213
06-07-2009, 04:49 PM
I heard people talking about what a big series this Tigers one is but is it really? Let's look at the best case scenario Sox sweep all 4 and are back to .500 and potentially within a half game of first. But then what?

We've seen this team do that before, go on a nice run only to go on an even worse run like the one they are in now. If the Sox are hanging around when the trade deadline approaches like say within 3-4 games I say we have another white flag trade.

Get what you can for some of these guys and try to rebuild, this team isn't built for a long haul or a post season run, granted having TCQ back in the lineup should help a lot but he isn't going to rise this team up from the dead. I'm really ticked off at the hitting today but I'm not suprised by it either and it doesn't seem like Ozzie is either, that's a big problem. This team is starting to look real bad real fast. I'll still be watching all year to see the progression of guys like Beckham and Getz but I have no hope for this team to go on any sort of run. And that's sad.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2009, 04:51 PM
Firing Walker will placate the fan base but do absolutely nothing to change this home run or nothing philosophy.

You can't turn plough horses into thoroughbreds can you?

Lip

TDog
06-07-2009, 04:53 PM
I am honestly completely puzzled by the BA love on this board. It should be an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.

I like his defense and think he should be hitting ninth. I like Nix's defense and think he should be hitting ninth. I don't like Fields' hitting or defense, but if he has to be in the starting lineup, he should be hitting ninth. But Beckham is hitting ninth.

The lineup isn't as bad when Thome and Pierzynski are playing

Cuck the Fubs
06-07-2009, 04:56 PM
:anon::puking:

Words cannot describe this steaming pile of crap that is our 2009 White Sox :angry:

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 04:56 PM
I am honestly completely puzzled by the BA love on this board. It should be an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.

But what are the options? Wise :rolling:. Maybe if Ozzie would just let BA play everyday, instead of putting in POS Wise, he could be better. Being a part time player doesn't help anyone. I think Ozzie isn't thinking clearly. He has always been infatuated with the lefty righty, righty lefty thing and it doesn't work.

SoxFan1979
06-07-2009, 04:59 PM
Bottom 8th was the most frustrating inning I've seen this year. We can't get more then 1 run bases loaded nobody out. Sox stink something real bad that's all it is. As soon as BA stepped up to the plate I knew he was gonna wiff. This team is horrible and is playing like utter S***. ..........My rant is over thanks for listening.

Whitesoxfan23
06-07-2009, 05:00 PM
But what are the options? Wise :rolling:. Maybe if Ozzie would just let BA play everyday, instead of putting in POS Wise, he could be better. Being a part time player doesn't help anyone. I think Ozzie isn't thinking clearly. He has always been infatuated with the lefty righty, righty lefty thing and it doesn't work.


He sucks worse than BA, I agree. I don't think either of them will ever be worth a damn at the plate to be honest.

Dick Allen
06-07-2009, 05:03 PM
But what are the options? Wise :rolling:. Maybe if Ozzie would just let BA play everyday, instead of putting in POS Wise, he could be better. Being a part time player doesn't help anyone. I think Ozzie isn't thinking clearly. He has always been infatuated with the lefty righty, righty lefty thing and it doesn't work.The problem is that BA and Wise are, at best, 4th outfielders on most teams. The Sox just missing on Tori Hunter cuts real deep.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 05:03 PM
He sucks worse than BA, I agree. I don't think either of them will ever be worth a damn at the plate to be honest.

But someone needs to be the starter and someone needs to be the backup. Obviously the you start against righties and you start against lefties isn't working.

SoxGirl4Life
06-07-2009, 05:07 PM
This 5 game DET series could be epic

Heffalump
06-07-2009, 05:07 PM
But what are the options? Wise :rolling:. Maybe if Ozzie would just let BA play everyday, instead of putting in POS Wise, he could be better. Being a part time player doesn't help anyone. I think Ozzie isn't thinking clearly. He has always been infatuated with the lefty righty, righty lefty thing and it doesn't work.

I gotta agree. Ozzie is ****ed up on this issue. Can BA be an all-star? I doubt it. But EVERYONE agrees that he is by far, the best defensive CF on the team - a very important defensive position on an otherwise ****ty defensive ballclub. Ozzie himslef harps about defense all the time.

In addition, BA has hit consistently in the minors. I do think he can be a .250-.270 hitter, 15-20 HR guy if given the chance to play on a regular basis.

No matter what you say about BA, I have yet to hear ANY logical answer on why Ozzie favors WISE over Anderson.

Wise should not be more than a once a week guy.

Britt Burns
06-07-2009, 05:09 PM
Aaaaaaggghhhh! While I am not a BA fanatic I have tended to think he gets unfairly maligned, but not anymore. He has totally regressed from any progress he made early in the season. He needs to go, as does Wise, who doesn't belong in the majors to begin with.

Jurr
06-07-2009, 05:10 PM
Firing Walker will placate the fan base but do absolutely nothing to change this home run or nothing philosophy.

You can't turn plough horses into thoroughbreds can you?

Lip

Exactly. The reason why this hasn't been done is obviously the fact that Kenny concedes the mistakes he has made in building this roster offensively.

One of the biggest luxuries with this team is the fact that the owner does spend money. People do come to the park, so the Sox are able to spend in the upper echelon of MLB clubs. Rebuilding this roster wouldn't take an exceptional amount of time.

The problem is a lack of identity. What are we doing here? Don't tell me that you're looking to be a "grinder" team with loads of offensive versatility and an emphasis on fundamentals. THIS TEAM IS BUILT FOR THE THREE RUN HOMER. Based on the interior of this lineup, there is no other option. To make matters worse, two of the biggest opportunities to move away from this philosophy are bound to the Sox with huge contracts. Nobody is taking Paul Konerko with his salary and NTC. Thome isn't going anywhere, either.

This team has loads of players with LONG swings. Fundamental hitting principles like hitting to the opposite field, staying back on an offspeed pitch to put it up the middle, or being incredibly patient at the plate are not in this team's makeup. The emphasis for YEARS has been to turn and burn. When a pitcher only has his fastball going, the Sox typically win. When a pitcher can get ANYTHING ELSE over the plate, the Sox continue to pull the ball, leading to weak popups or they beat the ball into the ground for routine grounders.

Do you want to make a rookie pitcher uneasy? Get some players that get on base via the walk and then pose a REAL THREAT to steal. Give the pitcher something else to worry about. These rookies are being allowed to focus in on the mitt and that's all.

Adding some stud leadoff hitter won't do it. Getting one centerfielder with speed won't do it, either. A comprehensive overhaul of this team's core offensive principles, including making the moves to facilitate this overhaul, is necessary.

This is a systemic problem, not some acute issue that can be fixed by replacing the hitting coach or adding one player.

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Does this count as a blowup or just alot of profanity?

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hayes/1610356,CST-SPT-neil07.article

Edit: Actually this is just a continuation of yesterday's article.

Whitesoxfan23
06-07-2009, 05:26 PM
Exactly. The reason why this hasn't been done is obviously the fact that Kenny concedes the mistakes he has made in building this roster offensively.

One of the biggest luxuries with this team is the fact that the owner does spend money. People do come to the park, so the Sox are able to spend in the upper echelon of MLB clubs. Rebuilding this roster wouldn't take an exceptional amount of time.

The problem is a lack of identity. What are we doing here? Don't tell me that you're looking to be a "grinder" team with loads of offensive versatility and an emphasis on fundamentals. THIS TEAM IS BUILT FOR THE THREE RUN HOMER. Based on the interior of this lineup, there is no other option. To make matters worse, two of the biggest opportunities to move away from this philosophy are bound to the Sox with huge contracts. Nobody is taking Paul Konerko with his salary and NTC. Thome isn't going anywhere, either.

This team has loads of players with LONG swings. Fundamental hitting principles like hitting to the opposite field, staying back on an offspeed pitch to put it up the middle, or being incredibly patient at the plate are not in this team's makeup. The emphasis for YEARS has been to turn and burn. When a pitcher only has his fastball going, the Sox typically win. When a pitcher can get ANYTHING ELSE over the plate, the Sox continue to pull the ball, leading to weak popups or they beat the ball into the ground for routine grounders.

Do you want to make a rookie pitcher uneasy? Get some players that get on base via the walk and then pose a REAL THREAT to steal. Give the pitcher something else to worry about. These rookies are being allowed to focus in on the mitt and that's all.

Adding some stud leadoff hitter won't do it. Getting one centerfielder with speed won't do it, either. A comprehensive overhaul of this team's core offensive principles, including making the moves to facilitate this overhaul, is necessary.

This is a systemic problem, not some acute issue that can be fixed by replacing the hitting coach or adding one player.


This is one of the best posts that I have read in a long time. I do think though that Walker needs to go as well..

wealz07
06-07-2009, 05:38 PM
This is exactly what a "transition year" looks like. Should not be a surprise.

DickAllen72
06-07-2009, 05:49 PM
I like his defense and think he should be hitting ninth. I like Nix's defense and think he should be hitting ninth. I don't like Fields' hitting or defense, but if he has to be in the starting lineup, he should be hitting ninth. But Beckham is hitting ninth.


Excellent.

getonbckthr
06-07-2009, 05:51 PM
For all the Brian Anderson haters out there go ask any baseball player. Professional, collegiate or hell even high school, the one constant thing you need is consistency to gain a routine. Consistent at bats is what Brian needs not play a game or 2 or 3 then sit for a few.

Rdy2PlayBall
06-07-2009, 05:54 PM
The Sox have too many holes on their roster. If these holes are surrounded by superstars than it is ok. But the Sox do not have 1 superstar.They should have 2, Quentin and Alexei. 3 if you have any respect for Dye. This team can a should be winning. If Quentin wasn't hurt and we weren't wasting outs forcing Beckham to start his career early, this team could be over .500. If the Sox just would just put Corrasco in as a starter, the Sox would be set. Nothing has been working out... balls hit into diving players, running players, players just standing there... it's not fair.

I still can't believe Ozzie's "GREAT" managing skills put it Nix for Getz, who average is close to .5 less than Getz's.

ms620
06-07-2009, 05:56 PM
For all the Brian Anderson haters out there go ask any baseball player. Professional, collegiate or hell even high school, the one constant thing you need is consistency to gain a routine. Consistent at bats is what Brian needs not play a game or 2 or 3 then sit for a few.

There are always excuses when people talk about him? Please tell me his stats the 1 year that Ozzie actually sucked it up and played him the entire season. In case you are too lazy to look, he hit .225. So far this year he has played in 35 games and has 5 extra base hits. That is not gonna cut it.

It's Dankerific
06-07-2009, 06:00 PM
BA just hasn't been the same since he got sick and lost PT.

He still made that great catch and is an asset on defense. He was taking pitches better today.

He does seem to tighten up with RISP. I can't help but think hes trying to hard because he thinks that will earn him more PT to come through. Whatever it is, he's struggling with the bat right now.

All I do know, is that when he was healthy and playing everyday, he was doing well.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 06:02 PM
There are always excuses when people talk about him? Please tell me his stats the 1 year that Ozzie actually sucked it up and played him the entire season. In case you are too lazy to look, he hit .225. So far this year he has played in 35 games and has 5 extra base hits. That is not gonna cut it.

And Ozzie keeps running Wise out there. What's he hitting?

Rdy2PlayBall
06-07-2009, 06:02 PM
BA just hasn't been the same since he got sick and lost PT.

He still made that great catch and is an asset on defense. He was taking pitches better today.

He does seem to tighten up with RISP. I can't help but think hes trying to hard because he thinks that will earn him more PT to come through. Whatever it is, he's struggling with the bat right now.

All I do know, is that when he was healthy and playing everyday, he was doing well.I think that has nothing to do with being healthy, now he is just averaged everything out to having the stats he should have and he has had his whole career. He is a good defensive player but he will never be good at offense. I would love for him to prove me wrong but I don't think hes going to.

ms620
06-07-2009, 06:09 PM
And Ozzie keeps running Wise out there. What's he hitting?

I think we can all agree that Wise should not be starting. And there can be an argument on whether or not he should even be on a major league roster. But that still does not do anything to take away from the fact that BA is an extremely disapointing former first round draft pick bust. He is so frustrating b/c when he hits a little bit, he is a valuable player. But the problem is, he cannot maintain any type of godo approach at the plate. His swing is still way too long, and he is awful with runners on base.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 06:17 PM
I think we can all agree that Wise should not be starting. And there can be an argument on whether or not he should even be on a major league roster. But that still does not do anything to take away from the fact that BA is an extremely disapointing former first round draft pick bust. He is so frustrating b/c when he hits a little bit, he is a valuable player. But the problem is, he cannot maintain any type of godo approach at the plate. His swing is still way too long, and he is awful with runners on base.

The point is that BA is a part time player when Ozzie keeps putting Wise out there when a righty starts. Right now BA is a intermittent bench player, as is Wise. This righty, lefty, lefty righty **** doesn't work and all it does is makes 2 not so good bench players even worse. You can't have a productive CF if you don't stick with one guy.

SoxFan1979
06-07-2009, 06:32 PM
You can't have a productive CF if you don't stick with one guy.

I agree 100%. I'm tired of these roster moves everyday. Just let it ride with one line-up. If it doesn't work oh well at least you know where you need help. Half this line-up is part time and it's not working.

Red Barchetta
06-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Lose five of our last six to last place teams. Not fun.:angry:

I really thought coming off the sweep in KC that we were set to make a move and perhaps close within 1-2 games of Detroit this week by playing the A's and the Indians. Amazingly poor baseball this past week. When does Bears mini-camp begin?

oeo
06-07-2009, 06:51 PM
The point is that BA is a part time player when Ozzie keeps putting Wise out there when a righty starts. Right now BA is a intermittent bench player, as is Wise. This righty, lefty, lefty righty **** doesn't work and all it does is makes 2 not so good bench players even worse. You can't have a productive CF if you don't stick with one guy.

How about Kenny fixing the problem instead of giving two bad options?

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 06:55 PM
I don't think KW should do anything right now. Obviously, if the opportunity arises to acquire a stud pitcher (like the Peavy deal), he should pounce. But I'm really not interested in trading prospects to acquire a veteran player to fill a particular hole this year, to try to make a playoff run this year. The only way to see if Richard, BA, Getz, Nix and Fields are part of the future is to let them play this year. That means growing pains. At the end of the season we'll have a much clearer idea of which of them can cut it.

For BA, I want .250+ AVG, .750+ OPS, more 2Bs & SBs, fewer Ks
For Fields, I want .250+ AVG, .800+ OPS, more HRs & SBs, fewer Ks
For Getz/Nix, I want .270+ AVG, .350+ OBP, good situational hitting
For Richard, I want consistent quality starts

DumpJerry
06-07-2009, 06:55 PM
As I posted in the Game Thread, I'm starting to run out of patience with BA. I've been among his biggest supporters - and have been willing to wait to pass judgment until he's had 1000 MLB at-bats. But he's had 700 MLB at-bats. He might get another 300 this season. He needs to do something in those next 300 at-bats. I expect better performance with RISP, and overall a .250+ average, and a .750+ OPS. He's going to need to make better contact and also club some more XBHs.
As a hitter, Brian Anderson will amount to nothing worth getting excited about. We have seen how good he is and it is not that good for a MLB player.

Hopefully, some sucker of a GM will take him before the trade deadline.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 06:59 PM
How about Kenny fixing the problem instead of giving two bad options?

This is an Ozzie problem! :?:

PhillipsBubba
06-07-2009, 06:59 PM
I don't have much confidence in Colon anymore. I never expected much from him, but he does not give the Sox much of a chance to win when he is pitching. He had a few decent starts early this year, yes, but I think it's a loss every time he takes the mound now.

As bad as Contreras has been, I would rather see him pitch instead of Colon. That said, when Colon and/or Contreras are your options and you don't have anyone else to go to, you're in trouble.

Colon is too fat to compete...time to call it a career.:(:

LITTLE NELL
06-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Nice homestand we're having.

oeo
06-07-2009, 07:08 PM
Colon is too fat to compete...time to call it a career.:(:

He's been inconsistent, but come on. The guy has been fine for us, overall. He's supposed to be our 5th starter. The problem is the rest of the rotation.

Gavin appears to have turned the corner. We need Danks to do the same, and could really use Contreras coming back with a bang. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Richard's success continuing.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 07:10 PM
He's been inconsistent, but come on. The guy has been fine for us, overall. He's supposed to be our 5th starter. The problem is the rest of the rotation.

Gavin appears to have turned the corner. We need Danks to do the same, and could really use Contreras coming back with a bang. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Richard's success continuing.

Or maybe the offense? :rolleyes:

oeo
06-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Or maybe the offense? :rolleyes:

I was talking pitching, not the entire team's problems...

BadBobbyJenks
06-07-2009, 07:18 PM
We lost to a triple A team today. It really was a minor league team out there that handed it to us. Embarrassing.

TDog
06-07-2009, 07:28 PM
Firing Walker will placate the fan base but do absolutely nothing to change this home run or nothing philosophy.

You can't turn plough horses into thoroughbreds can you?

Lip

This team doesn't have a home run or nothing philosphy. If it did, it would have more home run hitters and Guillen wouldn't be bunting so much in the few early innings when his team is already down by multiple runs.

Brian26
06-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Please tell me his stats the 1 year that Ozzie actually sucked it up and played him the entire season. In case you are too lazy to look, he hit .225.

What year would that have been, as I don't recall that happening yet?

Shoeless
06-07-2009, 07:41 PM
This team doesn't have a home run or nothing philosphy. If it did, it would have more home run hitters and Guillen wouldn't be bunting so much in the few early innings when his team is already down by multiple runs.

+1. It feels like there is definitely a departure from the home run philosophy. Alexei (maybe because he's batting 2nd) has 4 home runs. We're fifty games into the season and that would put him at 12 at this pace, a lot less than the 21. I wonder if that's a coaching product.

fuzzy_patters
06-07-2009, 07:41 PM
What year would that have been, as I don't recall that happening yet?

Then you have a poor memory. Anderson played in 134 games in 2006 before being pulled in favor of Mackowiak late in the year. You might argue that he didn't get a full season since he did lose his job to Mackowiak. However, if he wasn't effective for 83 percent of the season, it is doubtful that another 17 percent would have made much difference.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2009, 07:42 PM
TDog:

And how many times are these guys able to successfully lay down a bunt?

My point exactly....they can't execute the fundamentals needed to score runs and put pressure on the opposition.

And as I've said elsewhere you can't really blame the players...they are what they are.

They have had success doing something a certain way in the big leagues.

Should Konerko be able to bunt in the last of the 8th inning of a scoreless game? Certainly...should Thome be able to choke up and punch a pitch the other way to beat the shift? Yes...should Ramirez have some knowledge of the strike zone? Absolutely.

But they don't.

The issue is the organization... that continues to put the same type of player in the lineup, up and down, year after year.

They need 'speed demons and slap hitters' in the top two and bottom two spots in the lineup. Guys who can steal, bunt, advance runners, force catchers to call for more fastballs and pressure opponents into mistakes.

They don't have that and firing Walker won't give this to them.

Only Kenny can perform major surgery on this club since he's the G.M.

Lip

DrCrawdad
06-07-2009, 07:57 PM
bechham ripped that ball. u act like he looks clueless at the plate.

http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/BA%20Hair.jpg
Brian, sorry but I've got to call it like I see it.
I've quietly rooted for you but I don't think
the Sox or Sox fans can endure a couple
more weeks of your whiffs.

JB98
06-07-2009, 07:59 PM
We lost to a triple A team today. It really was a minor league team out there that handed it to us. Embarrassing.

I can't argue. Sizemore and Cabrera are on the DL. Hafner didn't play today. Peralta didn't play today. Lee didn't pitch. They kicked our asses anyway.

Colon didn't give us a chance. He was problem No. 1 today. You are not going to win many games when your starting pitcher gives up four homers in five innings pitched.

I agree with TDog's comments about having a bunch of No. 9 hitters in the lineup. Look at today's five through nine:

Fields
Castro
Anderson
Getz
Beckham

Every player listed there is either a rookie or a bench player. I'm not going to raise a fuss if they scapegoat Walker, but I honestly don't think firing the hitting coach will fix the problem. Anderson and Nix don't strike out with the bases loaded because of Greg Walker. They strike out because they are below average hitters. It's that simple.

Patrick134
06-07-2009, 08:00 PM
This upcoming Tiger series will determine the rest of the year.


B.S. The Sox could sweep this series and still tank the rest of the year.

DrCrawdad
06-07-2009, 08:09 PM
I'm so glad I didn't watch the game today. I'd be extremely frustrated and angry about the way the Sox played and the time wasted. I did record the game.

http://www.lightfootltd.com/images/alvin%20erase%20clear.jpg

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 08:19 PM
B.S. The Sox could sweep this series and still tank the rest of the year.

Watch and learn! :o: How many Sox sweeps have you seen this year?

wassagstdu
06-07-2009, 08:22 PM
Sox fans booed Dewayne Wise on opening day? I didn't know that. The Sox may be the worst team in MLB right now, but that is not why I am ashamed to be a Sox fan.

I also remember another CF who was booed on opening day -- because he wasn't Aaron Rowand -- Brian Anderson. Helped him get off to a great start.

JB98
06-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Sox fans booed Dewayne Wise on opening day? I didn't know that. The Sox may be the worst team in MLB right now, but that is not why I am ashamed to be a Sox fan.

I also remember another CF who was booed on opening day -- because he wasn't Aaron Rowand -- Brian Anderson. Helped him get off to a great start.

Fortunately, the Nationals and Royals are still around.

balke
06-07-2009, 08:31 PM
I'm disgusted with this team right now. Nix isn't going to do anything good for the Sox. I know Hawk and Stone like him, but he swung at complete crap.

Brian26
06-07-2009, 08:50 PM
The Sox have too many holes on their roster. If these holes are surrounded by superstars than it is ok. But the Sox do not have 1 superstar.

How many "superstars" did the Sox have on the 2005 team?

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 08:53 PM
Who keeps closing the threads?

Brian26
06-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Then you have a poor memory. Anderson played in 134 games in 2006 before being pulled in favor of Mackowiak late in the year.

I seem to remember Anderson getting pulled in favor of Mack for the second game of the season for absolutely no reason.

Brian26
06-07-2009, 08:59 PM
Who keeps closing the threads?

I just closed the June 2 thread because it's too confusing to have similar discussions going on in two postgame threads at the same time.

I couldn't figure out why the June 2 thread was bumped in the first place. Let me know if there was a specific reason and I'll re-open it. I didn't see it.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 09:02 PM
I just closed the June 2 thread because it's too confusing to have similar discussions going on in two postgame threads at the same time.

I couldn't figure out why the June 2 thread was bumped in the first place. Let me know if there was a specific reason and I'll re-open it. I didn't see it.

Today is 6/7. OK!

balke
06-07-2009, 09:03 PM
I just closed the June 2 thread because it's too confusing to have similar discussions going on in two postgame threads at the same time.

I couldn't figure out why the June 2 thread was bumped in the first place. Let me know if there was a specific reason and I'll re-open it. I didn't see it.

Yeah I don't know how I posted in that one in the first place. I thought it was this thread originally.

Jurr
06-07-2009, 09:08 PM
TDog:

And how many times are these guys able to successfully lay down a bunt?

My point exactly....they can't execute the fundamentals needed to score runs and put pressure on the opposition.

And as I've said elsewhere you can't really blame the players...they are what they are.

They have had success doing something a certain way in the big leagues.

Should Konerko be able to bunt in the last of the 8th inning of a scoreless game? Certainly...should Thome be able to choke up and punch a pitch the other way to beat the shift? Yes...should Ramirez have some knowledge of the strike zone? Absolutely.

But they don't.

The issue is the organization... that continues to put the same type of player in the lineup, up and down, year after year.

They need 'speed demons and slap hitters' in the top two and bottom two spots in the lineup. Guys who can steal, bunt, advance runners, force catchers to call for more fastballs and pressure opponents into mistakes.

They don't have that and firing Walker won't give this to them.

Only Kenny can perform major surgery on this club since he's the G.M.

Lip
I couldn't agree more. Absolutely correct on all counts. Kenny has been given a long leash due to '05 (which ironically is the only time he actually tried to drastically overhaul and correct the offensive philosophy). That leash has to be shrinking by the day.

Dan H
06-07-2009, 09:08 PM
How many "superstars" did the Sox have on the 2005 team?


I don't know if you call Konerko a superstar but he had 40 homers that year. I believe Dye had 31. I hope you are making no comparisons to the 2005 team because the 2009 team stinks.

Let's hope some of the young talent does develop because if it doesn't, we are looking at some long time losing here.

balke
06-07-2009, 09:10 PM
I watched a story on Mattingly helping the Dodgers hitters, and think about the Rangers and Cardinals and just can't get over how Walker gets to keep his job because "the hitting coach doesn't make a difference" and "He's just a therapist, he can only be an outlet for the hitter" and blah blah blah. Seriously, can we put him out to pasture? I want at least some small hope that these young hitters will have some different philosophy than this team has had the past few years.

johnnyg83
06-07-2009, 09:14 PM
My point's is that he may not be the cause, but he sure as **** ain't the solution.

JB98
06-07-2009, 09:17 PM
One other reason they might be holding on to Walker: If they fire him and the team still stinks, that puts the GM on the hot seat.

By firing Walker, you are saying, "This guy is to blame." If we find out later that Walker was not to blame, the finger gets pointed right at Kenny Williams.

Of course, I'm already pointing the finger at KW. I think the lack of depth on this roster is killing the team. That's something the GM has to fix.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 09:25 PM
I will have to say, where is the energy that Ozzie once had. Just another rich dud right now.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2009, 09:25 PM
One other reason they might be holding on to Walker: If they fire him and the team still stinks, that puts the GM on the hot seat.

By firing Walker, you are saying, "This guy is to blame." If we find out later that Walker was not to blame, the finger gets pointed right at Kenny Williams.

Of course, I'm already pointing the finger at KW. I think the lack of depth on this roster is killing the team. That's something the GM has to fix.

So long as Jerry owns the team, Kenny will never be fired. I've been a vocal critic of Kenny at times, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt not only from 2005 but from 2008 as well. This team might lose 90, but 2008 gives him a bit of a breather. If we are awful in 2009 and 2010, then I think it might be time to consider a change upstairs, but a) that's not going to happen and b) I think he deserves the chance to clean up his own mess.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2009, 09:26 PM
I will have to say, where is the energy that Ozzie once had. Just another rich dud right now.

Watching this team day in and day out will sap the energy from anyone.

balke
06-07-2009, 09:27 PM
One other reason they might be holding on to Walker: If they fire him and the team still stinks, that puts the GM on the hot seat.

By firing Walker, you are saying, "This guy is to blame." If we find out later that Walker was not to blame, the finger gets pointed right at Kenny Williams.

Of course, I'm already pointing the finger at KW. I think the lack of depth on this roster is killing the team. That's something the GM has to fix.

If Betemit were still here I might be on board with you, but I think the talent is there and noone is pulling it out. He even got Castro to add to the depth and to try and curb the flood of SB's. There's more coming as well most likely, because its KW. A GM who makes moves and the majority fill needs the Sox desperately need. He's a great GM.

Whitesoxfan23
06-07-2009, 09:27 PM
There are many FOKW, because of 05, and because of 08, but we barely squeaked by in 08, and he probably thought we could do the same this year. He really ****ed up in the off-season. His past success record doesn't change that. At all.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 09:28 PM
The issue is the organization... that continues to put the same type of player in the lineup, up and down, year after year.

I agree completely, Lip. However, I think KW is re-making the Sox with youth from within. Things may not unfold until 2011, and it's deeppink that all these guys would pan out, but I'm hoping this lineup hits for power and average, runs the bases well and executes the fundamentals:

RF Danks, SS Alexei, 3B Beckham, LF Quentin, 1B Allen, C Flowers, DH Viciedo, 2B Getz, CF BA (bench: Nix, Fields, AJ, Shelby)

In the meantime, do you have any faith that Greg Walker will benefit any of these guys? If you do, keep him. If not, find someone better.

JB98
06-07-2009, 09:29 PM
So long as Jerry owns the team, Kenny will never be fired. I've been a vocal critic of Kenny at times, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt not only from 2005 but from 2008 as well. This team might lose 90, but 2008 gives him a bit of a breather. If we are awful in 2009 and 2010, then I think it might be time to consider a change upstairs, but a) that's not going to happen and b) I think he deserves the chance to clean up his own mess.

Sure, he deserves the chance to clean up his own mess. I'm not calling for his firing by any means.

I am saying that the team's problems are on him, not Walker.

We started Pods, BA and Wise in our outfield on Friday. That's weak sauce right there. This roster isn't good enough.

balke
06-07-2009, 09:31 PM
There are many FOKW, because of 05, and because of 08, but we barely squeaked by in 08, and he probably thought we could do the same this year. He really ****ed up in the off-season. His past success record doesn't change that. At all.

*******'d up what? Not getting who? This team can't go on being the Mets and buying superstars every offseason. The Sox gotta see what the young guys have, and it starts this season. They can compete without having to title it "rebuilding" but make no mistake, this is "progressing". This is an evaluation year where the Sox can find out what young guys are going to fill holes. In the next 3 years Konerko and Buehrle will probably be the only olds guy left on the Sox, and most likely at DH for Konerko.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 09:31 PM
Watching this team day in and day out will sap the energy from anyone.

But he's in charge! Isn't he suppose to be the life? Doing stupid **** will suck the life out of any team!

guillensdisciple
06-07-2009, 09:32 PM
I will have to say, where is the energy that Ozzie once had. Just another rich dud right now.

He has the energy in the clubhouse, but screaming and getting angry whenever the team screws up actually takes away from the cohesiveness of the team. I am pretty sure he does not want to press the same buttons.

JB98
06-07-2009, 09:36 PM
If Betemit were still here I might be on board with you, but I think the talent is there and noone is pulling it out. He even got Castro to add to the depth and to try and curb the flood of SB's. There's more coming as well most likely, because its KW. A GM who makes moves and the majority fill needs the Sox desperately need. He's a great GM.

I don't think he's great. I think he's above average. He's done some very good things for the Sox, had predominantly winning teams, but we've never gone to the playoffs in back-to-back years during his tenure.

I don't know if the talent really is there. Fields batted fifth today. Anderson batted seventh. The guys who we were thinking are No. 8 and No. 9 hitters are moving up into spots they can't handle.

From five through nine in today's batting order, it was all rookies and bench-caliber players, IMO. The lineup looked really weak without Thome and Pierzynski in there.

It will look better when TCQ gets back, but I fear that we're going to spend a lot of time waiting for Quentin to get healthy in the days to come. He is a promising hitter, but he is so oft-injured that we can't count on him. And the outfield depth on this club is horrendous. We started BA, Pods and Wise on Friday; BA, Pods and Nix on Saturday. Ugh.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 09:37 PM
I don't think KW intended for this to be a 90-win team. I think he hoped it would, but he also had a mandate to cut payroll (which he did) and consequently he has hoped that the new (younger and/or cheaper) players replicating the performance of the departing players.

Has Fields been better than healthy Crede/Uribe? No.

Has Getz/Nix been better than Cabrera? No.

Has BA been better than Swisher? Meh.

Has Colon been better than Vazquez? Nope.

Add the Quentin injury, and why should we expect anything better than what we've seen?

I think the best thing to do is be patient, wait things out, and use this year to hope the youngsters improve.

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 09:37 PM
He has the energy in the clubhouse, but screaming and getting angry whenever the team screws up actually takes away from the cohesiveness of the team. I am pretty sure he does not want to press the same buttons.

Too worried about his righty/lefty lefty/righty thing!

Red Barchetta
06-07-2009, 09:44 PM
I watched a story on Mattingly helping the Dodgers hitters, and think about the Rangers and Cardinals and just can't get over how Walker gets to keep his job because "the hitting coach doesn't make a difference" and "He's just a therapist, he can only be an outlet for the hitter" and blah blah blah. Seriously, can we put him out to pasture? I want at least some small hope that these young hitters will have some different philosophy than this team has had the past few years.

Frank Thomas isn't doing anything right now. :cool:

Seriously, I know Frank would probably not make a good coach due to his (ahem) communication skills, however you see my point. Get some ex-player who actually was a consistently good hitter and who could help teach and fix swing flaws. I haven't seen that in Walker.

Ranger
06-07-2009, 09:45 PM
Firing Walker will placate the fan base but do absolutely nothing to change this home run or nothing philosophy.

You can't turn plough horses into thoroughbreds can you?

Lip

Correct. And there's no point in a guy losing his job to make people feel better temporarily. Because they may start to hit after he's gone (and there will be no correlation) only to go right back to the way it was after a couple of weeks. The only thing that should make fans feel better is if they start to hit.

Nothing would change unless the personnel changes.

TDog
06-07-2009, 09:47 PM
TDog:

And how many times are these guys able to successfully lay down a bunt?

My point exactly....they can't execute the fundamentals needed to score runs and put pressure on the opposition.

And as I've said elsewhere you can't really blame the players...they are what they are.

They have had success doing something a certain way in the big leagues.

Should Konerko be able to bunt in the last of the 8th inning of a scoreless game? Certainly...should Thome be able to choke up and punch a pitch the other way to beat the shift? Yes...should Ramirez have some knowledge of the strike zone? Absolutely.

But they don't.

The issue is the organization... that continues to put the same type of player in the lineup, up and down, year after year.

They need 'speed demons and slap hitters' in the top two and bottom two spots in the lineup. Guys who can steal, bunt, advance runners, force catchers to call for more fastballs and pressure opponents into mistakes.

They don't have that and firing Walker won't give this to them.

Only Kenny can perform major surgery on this club since he's the G.M.

Lip

There is no reason for Paul Konerko to bunt in the late innings, and he hasn't had a successful sacrifice bunt since 1999. There is no reason for Jim Thome to bunt in the late innings, and he hasn't had a successful sacrifice since 1994. Dye shouldn't be bunting. If you're conceding outs, you aren't conceding outs from your best hitters. Harmon Killebrew never laid down a sacrifice bunt in his career, and when he was playing, bunting was far more common.

In most situations, bunting is a low percentage play. If you have a number nine hitter in the late innings with the score tied or with a small lead. You have the top of the order coming up. You might do it with your number one or two hitter because you have the heart of the order following. There is no reason for Jeff Cox to be coaching Thome and Konerko on their bunting.

You shouldn't bunt at all to get a runner over from second to third because your percentages are better if you hit the ball to the right side. At least if you get the ball up in the air, it might carry deep enough for the runner to advance. Anderson did his job as a ninth-place hitter Saturday by sacrificing to set up a run, but there is a huge difference between taking the bat out of Anderson's hands and taking it out of the hands of Thome or Konerko, conceding an out to advance a runner.

Podsednik, who wasn't supposed to be on this team, and Ramirez are pretty good one and two hitters. The Sox let Crede and Uribe go, to the detriment of their defense. I thought it was a mistake to let Cabrera go, but little could be done about that. More would come out of the top of the order if Quentin were healthy.

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2009, 09:54 PM
I'm so glad I had my sister's graduation to attend instead of watching this! When we went to dinner, I had to check the score on the TV in the restaurant's bar and couldn't believe it.

Will this team stop sucking at home in front of it's paying fans?

JermaineDye05
06-07-2009, 09:55 PM
It's time for some of today's starting lineup to be gone. I have no idea why anyone is surprised that Beckham is hitless, let alone didn't get a hit with the bases loaded and two outs with the Sox down by four in the eighth. I'm not second-guessing his callup. I was perplexed when it was announced and remain so.

Look at the lineup today. Castro has to play occasionally. But after Konerko, every hitter was a legitimate No. 9 hitter.

It doesn't help that the Sox once again on this homestand, were losing before they even came to bat.

The starting pitching is putting far more pressure on the offense than the offense is putting on the starting pitching.

Firing coaches isn't going to make any difference.

He smoked the ball in that ab and nearly had himself an RBI single. Beckham is fine right now, he appears to know what he's doing up there. The hits will come soon enough.

balke
06-07-2009, 10:05 PM
Correct. And there's no point in a guy losing his job to make people feel better temporarily. Because they may start to hit after he's gone (and there will be no correlation) only to go right back to the way it was after a couple of weeks. The only thing that should make fans feel better is if they start to hit.

Nothing would change unless the personnel changes.

Losing Walker will make me feel good for a long time. I'm not worried about this season. I'm not worried about Konerko Dye AJ or Thome. I'm worried about the young players we called up, and Walkerizing them. Get this guy away from our young nucleus. Call it placating or whatever you want, Walker has been connected to subpar hitting even IN 2005.

Britt Burns
06-07-2009, 10:10 PM
TDog:

And how many times are these guys able to successfully lay down a bunt?

My point exactly....they can't execute the fundamentals needed to score runs and put pressure on the opposition.

And as I've said elsewhere you can't really blame the players...they are what they are.

They have had success doing something a certain way in the big leagues.

Should Konerko be able to bunt in the last of the 8th inning of a scoreless game? Certainly...should Thome be able to choke up and punch a pitch the other way to beat the shift? Yes...should Ramirez have some knowledge of the strike zone? Absolutely.

But they don't.

The issue is the organization... that continues to put the same type of player in the lineup, up and down, year after year.

They need 'speed demons and slap hitters' in the top two and bottom two spots in the lineup. Guys who can steal, bunt, advance runners, force catchers to call for more fastballs and pressure opponents into mistakes.

They don't have that and firing Walker won't give this to them.

Only Kenny can perform major surgery on this club since he's the G.M.

Lip

This is one of the rare times I disagree with you Lip! While I do agree the team has been one-dimensional for way too long and that firing Walker would not be a panacea for all the Sox hitting woes given the players we have, a hitting coach's job should be exactly the type of thing that we've been having problems with--fundamental hitting skills (i.e. sacrifice bunts) and situational hitting (moving runners over, etc.). It pains me to say it becase Walker was one of my favorites when I was growing up but we have been atrocious at that over the years and Walker has to share some of that blame.

I think it is clear we are going to need to do some housecleaning during this season and/or in the offseason and I just can't imagine how Walker will survive that. We need to change our fundamental approach to hitting and unfortunately I think that means not only different players but a new hitting coach as well.

palehozenychicty
06-07-2009, 10:23 PM
Losing Walker will make me feel good for a long time. I'm not worried about this season. I'm not worried about Konerko Dye AJ or Thome. I'm worried about the young players we called up, and Walkerizing them. Get this guy away from our young nucleus. Call it placating or whatever you want, Walker has been connected to subpar hitting even IN 2005.

Exactly. The pitching was so good that we were able to overcome it. I remember when the Griffey trade was nixed, people here lost it. They haven't been a sound offense since the beginning of 2006. I'm not saying that Walker is the sole problem, but he hasn't found answers either.

oeo
06-07-2009, 10:30 PM
I agree completely, Lip. However, I think KW is re-making the Sox with youth from within. Things may not unfold until 2011, and it's deeppink that all these guys would pan out, but I'm hoping this lineup hits for power and average, runs the bases well and executes the fundamentals:

RF Danks, SS Alexei, 3B Beckham, LF Quentin, 1B Allen, C Flowers, DH Viciedo, 2B Getz, CF BA (bench: Nix, Fields, AJ, Shelby)

In the meantime, do you have any faith that Greg Walker will benefit any of these guys? If you do, keep him. If not, find someone better.

It makes no sense to move Danks to RF, especially for a fourth outfielder. I hope by 2011, Anderson is long gone so we don't have to hear about him anymore.

Not only that, Beckham is going to be a #3 hitter?

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 10:35 PM
It makes no sense to move Danks to RF, especially for a fourth outfielder. I hope by 2011, Anderson is long gone so we don't have to hear about him anymore.

Indeed. By Tuesday night we might even have a prospect to slot into that future OF spot with our abundance of picks. (Tim Wheeler, Jared Mitchell, Pollock etc)

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2009, 10:50 PM
So, when do the Blackhawks and Bears start their seasons??? :scratch:

palehozenychicty
06-07-2009, 11:29 PM
Indeed. By Tuesday night we might even have prospect to slot into that future OF spot with our abundance of picks. (Tim Wheeler, Jared Mitchell, Pollock etc)


They really need to get a couple of solid major leaguers out of these picks on Tuesday.

sunofgold
06-07-2009, 11:51 PM
So we hit a rough patch. Still only 4.5 games out and we haven't played our best baseball yet. Still 2/3 of the season left to be played.

I am not worried about Gordon. He has hit the well hard a couple of times. He doesn't looked overmatched and is going to be a good contact hitter. Just want to see him bat ninth until the hits start falling.

I am hopefully that Carlos can come back healthy and play like he did in April and in 2008. Then, you look at our 1-7 and it is awesome. Then, Beckham will be good at 8 or 9.



So for the positives:

Gordon Beckham
Floyd is pitching great now (when he sucked earlier)
Carlos will hopefully be back soon
The bullpen continues to pitch well
Hopefully, Contreras pitches well and that could give us another option
Pods has been outstanding ...seems like he leads off everygame with a hit
Middle of the order is still decent
AJ is hitting well
Richard has good enough stuff to succeed as a starter
We are in the AL Central!
KW is looking for another starter (I am guessing to replace Colon?)

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2009, 11:55 PM
So we hit a rough patch. Still only 4.5 games out and we haven't played our best baseball yet. Still 2/3 of the season left to be played.
We've had more than just this rough patch so far in the first couple of months in the season. It will be a long next couple of months until Blackhawks and Bears training camps get going.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2009, 12:23 AM
Britt:

I'm not saying you're wrong all I'm saying firing Walker right now changes nothing with the make up and the deficiencies of this club.

They have little speed, they don't have guys who can steal bases, they can't execute fundamentals like bunting, the hit and run, the run and hit, they can't advance runners or drive them in when they are in scoring position and the sluggers are no longer hitting for a high average.

It's one thing to have a home run or nothing philosophy like the Sox had in 2000. They had Frank Thomas hitting .328, Magglio Ordonez hitting .315. Carlos Lee hit .301. Paul Konerko .298.

They had nine guys with ten or more home runs but they also had five guys with at least 13 stolen bases.

Today when you have home run or nothing guys hitting .240 or worse, that doesn't get the job done. To say nothing of having a lack of speed.

Here's a question for you, when was the last time the Sox had a .300 hitter? (Jermaine Dye - 2006)

Walker should be gone after the season is over in a major philosophical shakeup, but doing it now accomplishes very little. A new hitting coach isn't going to make these guys faster, turn back the age clock five years or get guys to do the little things will it?

Lip

kittle42
06-08-2009, 03:53 AM
For all the Brian Anderson haters out there go ask any baseball player. Professional, collegiate or hell even high school, the one constant thing you need is consistency to gain a routine. Consistent at bats is what Brian needs not play a game or 2 or 3 then sit for a few.

Let him get that consistent play somewhere else.

I think this same argument was once made about Ross Gload.

ms620
06-08-2009, 05:52 AM
How many "superstars" did the Sox have on the 2005 team?

The better question is how many holes did they have. Like I said, if you have as many holes on your roster like the Sox currently have you need to surround them by great players. When you add in the other peices of the 2009 Sox team, you realize that their best players are just not good enough to carry the load for the rest. You did not need that in 2005 as there was not nearly as many holes on the roster.

TomBradley72
06-08-2009, 08:50 AM
There's not a hitting coach on the planet that is going to turn Getz (AAAA player), Fields (strike out machine every level he's played in), and Anderson (now on his 4th season of being a "prospect") into solid major league hitters.

I can't defend retaining Walker, but he's doesn't really have much to work with. I won't argue against replacing him, but I also don't believe the change will have much of an impact. It's like blaming Cooper for not doing more with crap like Whisler, Gobble and Colon to work with. Anyway...this is shaping up to be the one of the most mediocre White Sox teams of the KW era.

Frankfan4life
06-08-2009, 09:37 AM
It seems like every team we've played during the current home stand have performed they way the White Sox should be performing and the White Sox have performed the way we expected those teams to perform.

I don't like living in Bizarro World. Where are the real White Sox?????

TomBradley72
06-08-2009, 10:55 AM
I agree completely, Lip. However, I think KW is re-making the Sox with youth from within.

Still alot of DH/1B/Corner OF types in our "top prospects" pipeline.