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View Full Version : If Beckham's up, when Danks?


TheVulture
06-06-2009, 11:45 PM
Supposed outstanding defensive CFer who has significantly outhit Beckham this year. If you're going with Beckham, why not Danks? Pods has helped, but clearly not a long term option - why not just go with Quentin/Dye/Anderson/Danks?

oeo
06-06-2009, 11:48 PM
Danks isn't as polished as Beckham. That's why Beckham was #8 overall.

TheVulture
06-06-2009, 11:50 PM
Danks isn't as polished as Beckham. That's why Beckham was #8 overall.

Then why are his numbers better? From all reports Danks is polished defensively, while Beckham's a bit rough. How's that equate to more polished?

voodoochile
06-06-2009, 11:50 PM
Supposed outstanding defensive CFer who has significantly outhit Beckham this year. If you're going with Beckham, why not Danks? Pods has helped, but clearly not a long term option - why not just go with Quentin/Dye/Anderson/Danks?

Not as much urgency to fix the OF with Quentin due back soon and Pods expected to take over the CF/LOH role seems like one reason, but obviously the guys who evaluate talent don't think he's as ready as Beckham is.

Rdy2PlayBall
06-06-2009, 11:52 PM
If Pods plays just like this I'd want him long term for sure. Don't try to predict a players career. As for the Danks experiment... I don't even like the Beckham one going on right now. Leave the roster the way it is, especially if Fields is playing the way he has been.

voodoochile
06-06-2009, 11:54 PM
Then why are his numbers better? From all reports Danks is polished defensively, while Beckham's a bit rough. How's that equate to more polished?

I don't know that they are better. Beckham had 17 doubles in 147 AB that's on pace to hit 70+ over a full season.

Also, you don't promote strictly based on stats. Obviously the people who evaluate this stuff felt Beckham was ready to move to AAA and when he continued to tear the cover off the ball, gave him his chance in the majors.

Have you seen any of these players play or are you strictly going off of stats?

TheVulture
06-06-2009, 11:55 PM
You'd keep Pods long term, i.e. beyond 2009. even if it blocked a top prospect?

TheVulture
06-06-2009, 11:56 PM
I don't know that they are better. Beckham had 17 doubles in 147 AB that's on pace to hit 70+ over a full season.

Also, you don't promote strictly based on stats. Obviously the people who evaluate this stuff felt Beckham was ready to move to AAA and when he continued to tear the cover off the ball, gave him his chance in the majors.

Have you seen any of these players play or are you strictly going off of stats?

Purely stats and reports of advanced defensive skill. The .332/.411/.528 career line is hard to overlook.

Rohan
06-06-2009, 11:58 PM
If Pods plays just like this I'd want him long term for sure. Don't try to predict a players career. As for the Danks experiment... I don't even like the Beckham one going on right now. Leave the roster the way it is, especially if Fields is playing the way he has been.

I definitely would not keep Podsednik long term...
If he keeps playing like he is now i'll keep him next year.. But beyond that, not a chance.

voodoochile
06-07-2009, 12:00 AM
Purely stats and reports of advanced defensive skill.

Minor league stats don't man jack...

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2009, 12:01 AM
Supposed outstanding defensive CFer who has significantly outhit Beckham this year. If you're going with Beckham, why not Danks? Pods has helped, but clearly not a long term option - why not just go with Quentin/Dye/Anderson/Danks?
My GOD!!! There are already too many inexperienced/unseasoned guys on this roster as it is, and you want to add another one?

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2009, 12:04 AM
We have Wise!

TheVulture
06-07-2009, 12:05 AM
Minor league stats don't man jack...

Looking at the better hitters of recent memory, they all seemed to have pretty good numbers in the minors.

Rdy2PlayBall
06-07-2009, 12:06 AM
I definitely would not keep Podsednik long term...
If he keeps playing like he is now i'll keep him next year.. But beyond that, not a chance.If he plays like this next year you might want him another year... If Danks can pull off the same stats with his defense, he would be a much better option though. If Pods is good though he could be a great trading bid if the Sox don't want him long term.

oeo
06-07-2009, 12:07 AM
Then why are his numbers better? From all reports Danks is polished defensively, while Beckham's a bit rough. How's that equate to more polished?

Why was Beckham drafted #8 overall? Why was he the 20th best prospect in all of baseball at the start of the season?

You're looking at and comparing two sample sizes in Birmingham. Give Danks some time to develop; he still needs to cut down on his strikeouts.

TheVulture
06-07-2009, 12:08 AM
My GOD!!! There are already too many inexperienced/unseasoned guys on this roster as it is, and you want to add another one?

Not necessarily - just wondering what Beckham's done that Danks hasn't. I wouldn't be opposed to a full on youth movement, though, to tell you the truth.

TheVulture
06-07-2009, 12:09 AM
You're looking at and comparing two sample sizes in Birmingham.

True, but Danks' numbers are exactly in line with his numbers at other levels.

voodoochile
06-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Looking at the better hitters of recent memory, they all seemed to have pretty good numbers in the minors.

Well sure, but there are plenty of others who did who failed dramatically at the major league level because a long looping swing on a guy with power is okay when the pitchers are only hitting 85-87 on the gun for the most part and still working on developing their breaking stuff, but take that up a notch and the numbers won't bear out.

I have no idea if that's the case with Danks. I'm just giving an example. All I'm saying is if all you have is stats to go on, you don't have enough information.

voodoochile
06-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Not necessarily - just wondering what Beckham's done that Danks hasn't. I wouldn't be opposed to a full on youth movement, though, to tell you the truth.

Great way to ruin a youth movement is to bring up a bunch of highly rated youths before they are ready to face Major League pitchers...

Rohan
06-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Not necessarily - just wondering what Beckham's done that Danks hasn't. I wouldn't be opposed to a full on youth movement, though, to tell you the truth.

We are probably one of the youngest teams in the majors right now...

oeo
06-07-2009, 12:14 AM
We are probably one of the youngest teams in the majors right now...

Joking?

thedudeabides
06-07-2009, 12:16 AM
Why was Beckham drafted #8 overall? Why was he the 20th best prospect in all of baseball at the start of the season?

You're looking at and comparing two sample sizes in Birmingham. Give Danks some time to develop; he still needs to cut down on his strikeouts.


Exactly. He has 54 strikeouts in 218 at bats this year. That wouldn't translate well at the top level.

chisoxfanatic
06-07-2009, 12:19 AM
Not necessarily - just wondering what Beckham's done that Danks hasn't. I wouldn't be opposed to a full on youth movement, though, to tell you the truth.
I would be. You don't throw a bunch of youth into the ring of fire known as MLB all at the same time. You bring in a couple, let them get comfortable, and then bring up another guy or two gradually. It is stupid to have too many guys "learning" the MLB game at the same time. The only way they can learn is to have at least several other teammates there to give them advice and be there for support...and this is even MORE crucial considering who this team has for its hitting coach.

Rohan
06-07-2009, 12:20 AM
Joking?

I guess we're not as young as i originally thought.. But we are still pretty young... The average age of our line up today is 28, and there are extremes of experience on this team as well. Guys with a lot of experience, your AJ, Dye, Konerko, Thome... And not much experience at all, your Getz, Nix, Anderson, Fields.

Mohoney
06-07-2009, 12:28 AM
Great way to ruin a youth movement is to bring up a bunch of highly rated youths before they are ready to face Major League pitchers...

Amen. The philosophy you describe is one that turns teams into perennial suckfests like Pittsburgh and Kansas City.

Britt Burns
06-07-2009, 12:42 AM
Danks, Vicideo, Flowers, Allen, Poreda, etc. will all be in Chicago soon enough, but they are not ready yet. Rushing them can only hurt their long-term development.

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-07-2009, 04:34 AM
You'd keep Pods long term, i.e. beyond 2009. even if it blocked a top prospect?

If that prospect is not ready, yes. Danks will not be ready by 2010.

CaptUSN
06-07-2009, 08:51 AM
When will Jordan Danks get on the Beckham express to Chicago? His AA numbers are nearly eye watering and he is hitting lead off....

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 10:46 AM
Sometime in 2010. Probably a mid season callup, but I wouldn't be surprised if he broke camp with the team.

DirtySox
06-07-2009, 10:59 AM
Many of the reasons have already been stated. Beckham is a more advanced and polished product and is better suited to hit major league pitching right now. Stats don't tell the whole story. Gordon has great pitch recognition and a very solid swing. It is generally unanimous amongst scouts that he is ready.

Jordan Danks is opening eyes, but he doesn't have the reputation or track record that Gordon does. He strikeouts too much. He finished Winston-Salem with a near 30% K rate. This number has gone down slightly in AA, but he still needs to show he can maintain it. Lastly, Jordan has a very long loopy swing. It takes him a while to unload. He has to work on cutting it down especially in a pitcher's count. If he continues to cut the K rate while putting up these numbers, you will see him soon enough. Best case scenario he might break camp with the team in 2010, but I would expect a 2010 midseason callup at some point.

LoveYourSuit
06-07-2009, 11:32 AM
I think it's looking sooner than later.

He's made the most strides of any one of our prospects including Gordon.

Might be the starting CF come next season.

Should be fun to watch!

Shoeless
06-07-2009, 11:37 AM
It's funny you call it the Beckham express. If Beckham doesn't perform i wonder if it will delay more callups....

Mr. White Sox
06-07-2009, 12:48 PM
If that prospect is not ready, yes. Danks will not be ready by 2010.

I completely disagree with this. By all accounts he is flashing incredible ability in AA this year, and his stats are sparkling. He'll probably get a promotion to AAA by the end of the year, and if not, he'll start at AAA next year and will surely be on the MLB roster by the end of 2010, conservatively.

The only question is whether or not he can cut down on his K's at this point. If he can do that, he'll be ready by early 2010. If not, I still think he gets a call-up in 2010 at the very least. His power also may never come around to what scouts initially projected was possible (although he has 2 of his 6 HR in his last 10 games), but he's ripping extra base hits regardless (15 2B, 3 3B, 6 HR in 214 ABs).

This was from a (free portion of) baseball prospectus article, and to paraphrase, K. Goldstein basically said Danks was worth the above-slot signing bonus, has good pop, good speed, "plus defensive skills", and that scouts were having difficulty finding weaknesses in his approach. That was back in May (https://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8956&sessionstatus=notloggedin&mode=login) and his numbers have only stayed the same since then, at a higher level and a ridiculous pitcher's park to boot. I'm excited.

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-07-2009, 09:16 PM
I completely disagree with this. By all accounts he is flashing incredible ability in AA this year, and his stats are sparkling. He'll probably get a promotion to AAA by the end of the year, and if not, he'll start at AAA next year and will surely be on the MLB roster by the end of 2010, conservatively.

The only question is whether or not he can cut down on his K's at this point. If he can do that, he'll be ready by early 2010. If not, I still think he gets a call-up in 2010 at the very least. His power also may never come around to what scouts initially projected was possible (although he has 2 of his 6 HR in his last 10 games), but he's ripping extra base hits regardless (15 2B, 3 3B, 6 HR in 214 ABs).

This was from a (free portion of) baseball prospectus article, and to paraphrase, K. Goldstein basically said Danks was worth the above-slot signing bonus, has good pop, good speed, "plus defensive skills", and that scouts were having difficulty finding weaknesses in his approach. That was back in May (https://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8956&sessionstatus=notloggedin&mode=login) and his numbers have only stayed the same since then, at a higher level and a ridiculous pitcher's park to boot. I'm excited.

Probably shoud have been a little clearer. I meant he won't make the team out of spring. If he can perform in Triple-A or whichever level he's in, then maybe at the end of the year as a callup. There just seems to be some things that he can work on, like you said: the power and K's. Beckham didn't exactly have anything that needed work, except maybe his defense. Either way, it's nice to see some minor league guys with potentially bright futures.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2009, 09:31 PM
I'm really not worried about Danks' power. I just want him to cut down on the strikeouts, because he's the Sox' best hope to be a home-grown leadoff hitter.

cws05champ
06-08-2009, 09:03 AM
I'm really not worried about Danks' power. I just want him to cut down on the strikeouts, because he's the Sox' best hope to be a home-grown leadoff hitter.
Exactly, Danks doesn't need to hit for much power to advance as long as his pitch recognition, patience and contact rate improve. What you really need to look at is his doubles, especially in B-Ham where it is a pitchers park. Would be nice to have him up mid 2010 if he keeps improving....but I don't want to rush THIS kid. I think he could be a very good player and I don;t want to force him up to fill a need earlier than needed.