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View Full Version : Boston Globe's Nick Carfardo ranks the managers


Fenway
06-03-2009, 05:43 PM
This should spark some debate

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/05/31/the_managerial_ranks/?page=full

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Piniella scores higher than Ozzie?

Cubs have 2 pitchers who can't control themselves, have a ridiculous $ payroll for a .500 team, and he's better than Ozzie? ****ing joke.

hi im skot
06-03-2009, 05:52 PM
Piniella scores higher than Ozzie?

Cubs have 2 pitchers who can't control themselves, have a ridiculous $ payroll for a .500 team, and he's better than Ozzie? ****ing joke.

Not sure how that's totally Pinella's fault.

Also, Dusty Baker at #10? :rolling:

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-03-2009, 05:56 PM
Not sure how that's totally Pinella's fault.



He referenced Ozzie's need to manage young and old. If you're using the ingredients of your team as a reasoning for ranking, then Piniella's ranking should be directly tied to the inability to post more wins with "talent" based on payroll.

35th and Shields
06-03-2009, 06:02 PM
Piniella scores higher than Ozzie?

Cubs have 2 pitchers who can't control themselves, have a ridiculous $ payroll for a .500 team, and he's better than Ozzie? ****ing joke.

If you ask me I would take Piniella over Ozzie in a heartbeat.

TDog
06-03-2009, 06:08 PM
His No. 1 and No. 3 managers used to work for the White Sox, of course -- LaRussa as a manager that Harry Caray considered unqualified and Leyland as one of his coaches.

Lou Piniella has to be a great manager, worthy of the No. 10 spot, despite losing eight straight postseason games, the last three, perhaps the last six, with a team that everyone was picking to win the World Series. After all, Lou Piniella was managing. Also, don't forget, the Cubs are overachieving this year.

And Dusty Baker certainly deserves to be just a notch behind him at No. 11. Ask any Cubs fan.

I can understand why Ozzie Guillen is 16. He loses points because he only got one win in last year's postseason after an improbably run that put the Sox in the ALDS without their best hitter and their fourth-best starter pitching the first game.

You have to remember that in 2005 when he led his team to the World Series, everyone expected the White Sox to cruise through with only one loss after having no competition in the AL Central.

AZChiSoxFan
06-03-2009, 06:11 PM
This should spark some debate

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/05/31/the_managerial_ranks/?page=full


AJ Hinch of the D-backs should be #30, no questions asked.

Regarding Ozzie, I got a kick out of the line about an early exit in the playoffs last year. The guys writes it like it was a bad thing. Hello, virtually nobody on the planet picked the '08 Sox to even sniff the postseason.

Domeshot17
06-03-2009, 06:11 PM
If we had Lou and the Cubs had Ozzie we would be agreeing with it, it is just the way it is, we back our guy.

You can tell these ratings are a sham after 2 spots. Francona is good, but number 2 in the game? Yah, okay. Lets see him do something without a massive payroll.

cards press box
06-03-2009, 06:25 PM
I would take Ozzie as manager of the White Sox over the following managers:

(3) Jim Leyland, (7) Charlie Manuel, (9) Lou Piniella, (10) Dusty Baker, (11) Bruce Bochy, (12) Ron Gardenhire, (13) Ken Macha, (15) Joe Girardi, (17) Ron Washington,(18) Jerry Manuel, (19) Trey Hillman, (20) Eric Wedge, (21) Bud Black, (22) Freddy Gonzalez, (23) John Russell, (24) Dave Trembley, (25) Bob Geren, (26) Cecil Cooper, (27) Manny Acta, (28) Don Wakamatsu, (29) A.J. Hinch and (30) Jim Tracy.

Ozzie is comparable to: (2) Terry Francona, (6) Mike Scioscia and (8) Joe Maddon.

The only managers that are arguably better than Ozzie are: (1) Tony LaRussa, (4) Bobby Cox and (5) Joe Torre.

Torre, to me, is the best manager in the game and is proving it this year with the Dodgers. LaRussa and Cox are great managers, too. Ozzie, though, is a better fit with the White Sox than any of them. He is the heart and soul of the franchise and has been for over 20 years.

TomBradley72
06-03-2009, 06:34 PM
If you ask me I would take Piniella over Ozzie in a heartbeat.

I'd go just the opposite, from what I've seen from Piniella while he's been in Chicago...he seems severely overrated to me...winless in two trips to the post season....and he seems to be losing control of his team this year in a way that I have never seen with Guillen leading the White Sox.

voodoochile
06-03-2009, 06:51 PM
His No. 1 and No. 3 managers used to work for the White Sox, of course -- LaRussa as a manager that Harry Caray considered unqualified and Leyland as one of his coaches.

Lou Piniella has to be a great manager, worthy of the No. 10 spot, despite losing eight straight postseason games, the last three, perhaps the last six, with a team that everyone was picking to win the World Series. After all, Lou Piniella was managing. Also, don't forget, the Cubs are overachieving this year.

And Dusty Baker certainly deserves to be just a notch behind him at No. 11. Ask any Cubs fan.

I can understand why Ozzie Guillen is 16. He loses points because he only got one win in last year's postseason after an improbably run that put the Sox in the ALDS without their best hitter and their fourth-best starter pitching the first game.

You have to remember that in 2005 when he led his team to the World Series, everyone expected the White Sox to cruise through with only one loss after having no competition in the AL Central.

The term dripping with sarcasm comes to mind... well done...

I agree and honestly don't think much of the list. I guess it's only based on what people have done this year because otherwise Dusty shouldn't be that high. I also agree that Lou is overrated. He had some great teams in Seattle and didn't do **** with them other than win a few early round series. He also presided over the team that won an all time best number of regular season games only to have it get donked out of the playoffs again.

Ozzie gets no respect at all, but nothing new there. It's a craptastic list dominated by well known managers. Meh...

voodoochile
06-03-2009, 06:53 PM
I would take Ozzie as manager of the White Sox over the following managers:

(3) Jim Leyland, (7) Charlie Manuel, (9) Lou Piniella, (10) Dusty Baker, (11) Bruce Bochy, (12) Ron Gardenhire, (13) Ken Macha, (15) Joe Girardi, (17) Ron Washington,(18) Jerry Manuel, (19) Trey Hillman, (20) Eric Wedge, (21) Bud Black, (22) Freddy Gonzalez, (23) John Russell, (24) Dave Trembley, (25) Bob Geren, (26) Cecil Cooper, (27) Manny Acta, (28) Don Wakamatsu, (29) A.J. Hinch and (30) Jim Tracy.

Ozzie is comparable to: (2) Terry Francona, (6) Mike Scioscia and (8) Joe Maddon.

The only managers that are arguably better than Ozzie are: (1) Tony LaRussa, (4) Bobby Cox and (5) Joe Torre.

Torre, to me, is the best manager in the game and is proving it this year with the Dodgers. LaRussa and Cox are great managers, too. Ozzie, though, is a better fit with the White Sox than any of them. He is the heart and soul of the franchise and has been for over 20 years.

I agree about Torre. Why he's 5th is beyond me. LaRussa getting the top nod when he's arguably been one of the biggest contributors to he Steroid mess is simply stupid...

102605
06-03-2009, 06:56 PM
Manager Power Rankings? Really? This is a waste of thoughts.

cards press box
06-03-2009, 06:58 PM
I agree about Torre. Why he's 5th is beyond me. LaRussa getting the top nod when he's arguably been one of the biggest contributors to he Steroid mess is simply stupid...

LaRussa's role in the steroid mess is a real problem for me, too. I still listed him as one of the top managers in the game because of his ability to win in both leagues, with different types of teams and with pitchers that other teams had released and/or given away. The steroids mess in Oakland (and later St. Louis with McGwire) does bother me, though.

JB98
06-03-2009, 07:14 PM
If we had Lou and the Cubs had Ozzie we would be agreeing with it, it is just the way it is, we back our guy.

You can tell these ratings are a sham after 2 spots. Francona is good, but number 2 in the game? Yah, okay. Lets see him do something without a massive payroll.

Blasphemy! Tito was a brilliant manager with the Phillies as well!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/francte01.shtml

MarkZ35
06-03-2009, 07:27 PM
What I don't understand more than anything is how Pinella moved up in the rankings from the beginning of last year and Ozzie has moved down. Going into last year nobody picked the Sox to even compete, let alone win the division. While almost everybody was picking the Cubs to at least make it to the world series and they got swept out of the playoffs in the first round. That is what bothers me the most about the rankings.

soulfly
06-03-2009, 07:39 PM
Sounds about right. The only one ahead of Oz that makes no sense is Baker. He is terrible. But so is Oz. But I'd rather have Ozzie than Dusty any day.

esbrechtel
06-04-2009, 09:02 AM
I kinda feel like Pinella is just cashing a paycheck with the Cubs. He has really seemed to mail it in this year...

SoxandtheCityTee
06-04-2009, 09:21 AM
Manager Power Rankings? Really? This is a waste of thoughts.

Sure it is, but they've got to get content from somewhere, generate controversy somehow.

During the recent Peavy episode, and at least one other time, I heard Mike Greenberg wonder if the player was reluctant to come play for Ozzie Guillen. No reference, no source, not a hint by this player that Ozzie was a probelm for him; just pure speculation. I'm not saying that it couldn't possibly be true, hypothetically. But they just decide what tropes to use for what managers and then pull them out whenever. It's not real analysis.

dickallen15
06-04-2009, 09:44 AM
I kinda feel like Pinella is just cashing a paycheck with the Cubs. He has really seemed to mail it in this year...
I disagree. That team has had a ton of injuries.

Britt Burns
06-04-2009, 10:01 AM
Dusty Baker, a man known for ruining young arms and seemingly incapable of working rookies into a lineup over mediocre vets, at #10? What a joke.

The rest of the list isn't much better, either.

TDog
06-04-2009, 11:21 AM
Reading this thread, a stereotype of a difference between White Sox fans and Cubs fans comes to mind.

It seems that during my life as a baseball fan (generally I'll begin with Don Gutteridge because that's when I started paying attention), many Sox fans have thought little of their team's manager despite his achievements. Ozzie Guillen won a World Series, and there are many who still believe Lou Piniella is a superior manager.

Cubs fans (beginning for me with Leo Durocher), for the most part, love their managers until things get ugly. Durocher, of course, was a Hall of Fame manager who didn't win a division with a team that had Hall of Fame hitters in the lineup and a Hall of Famer heading up the pitching rotation. And it did get ugly.

I was reminded of Durocher when Dusty Baker came in to take the Cubs to the promised land. And he hadn't even earned the sort of nickname that comes with being a legend in his own time, like Leo the Lip.

No mater. What happened to the Cubs in 2003 was the last six weeks of 1969 condensed into an inning. In comes someone legendary enough to be known as Sweet Lou whose Cubs condensed the last six weeks of 1969 into less than a week in 2008. But at this point, they still love him.

Yet, Ozzie Guillen wins a World Series, wins a division after his team seemed dead, with his best hitter sidelined. And many White Sox fans would rather have Sweet Lou. Maybe that's because Sweet Lou's magic prevented Frank Thomas from getting a hit in the 2000 ALDS.