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thomas35forever
06-02-2009, 08:39 PM
Less than two months into the season, Betemit has been nothing short of piss-poor. He sucks in the field and has made little difference with his bat. He's only signed to a one-year contract, so he could easily be DFA'd. I hope KW makes it happen, but he probably won't.

mweflen
06-02-2009, 08:39 PM
Having just watched Betemit's error lead to 3 unearned runs tonight (so far, that is), I am wondering:

How many games has he cost us at 1B or 3B, and when will this insane experiment come to an end?

DaveFeelsRight
06-02-2009, 08:40 PM
i know he had a helping hand in the 20-1 loss

mweflen
06-02-2009, 08:42 PM
i know he had a helping hand in the 20-1 loss

2 errors that I recall from that game.

mweflen
06-02-2009, 08:44 PM
Remember, you're talking about the GM of the David Wells Experiment, the Royce Clayton Experiment, the Jose Contreras Experiment, the Griffey Jr. Experiment, the Mike MacDougal Experiment...

So, in answer to your question, I would peg Betemit's stay at a 3 year extension, 3.5 mil per year, and a DFA at the midpoint of year three.

DaveFeelsRight
06-02-2009, 08:48 PM
honestly, i wouldn't be surprised to see him sent down to AAA after this game

Patrick134
06-02-2009, 08:50 PM
Remember, you're talking about the GM of the David Wells Experiment, the Royce Clayton Experiment, the Jose Contreras Experiment, the Griffey Jr. Experiment, the Mike MacDougal Experiment...

So, in answer to your question, I would peg Betemit's stay at a 3 year extension, 3.5 mil per year, and a DFA at the midpoint of year three.


The Jose Contreras experiment won us a world series.

thomas35forever
06-02-2009, 08:51 PM
The Jose Contreras experiment won us a world series.
And the Griffey Jr. experiment proved critical in the Blackout Game.

MISoxfan
06-02-2009, 08:55 PM
Remember, you're talking about the GM of the David Wells Experiment, the Royce Clayton Experiment, the Jose Contreras Experiment, the Griffey Jr. Experiment, the Mike MacDougal Experiment...

So, in answer to your question, I would peg Betemit's stay at a 3 year extension, 3.5 mil per year, and a DFA at the midpoint of year three.

Jose Contreras was the best pitcher in baseball for a good seasons worth of games.

dagame2005
06-02-2009, 08:58 PM
"Betemit needs to go"

Truer words were never spoken

ms620
06-02-2009, 08:58 PM
I agree Betemit stinks...but give me a break with him costing the Sox this game. All he did was commit an error to the lead off hitter. HE did not fall behing Hannahan (a .182 hitter) 3-0 and ultimately walk him, nor did he fall behind Cust which lead to another walk. HE also did not give up a 3 run double. The Sox currently have 3 hits, and let the young kid off the hook in the first 2 innings. So while I agree Betemit is not good, stop saying he cost the Sox this game. He contributed, but it is not all on him.

jabrch
06-02-2009, 09:00 PM
I agree Betemit stinks...but give me a break with him costing the Sox this game. All he did was commit an error to the lead off hitter. HE did not fall behing Hannahan (a .182 hitter) 3-0 and ultimately walk him, nor did he fall behind Cust which lead to another walk. HE also did not give up a 3 run double. The Sox currently have 3 hits, and let the young kid off the hook in the first 2 innings. So while I agree Betemit is not good, stop saying he cost the Sox this game. He contributed, but it is not all on him.

Excellent post. People will bitch about Betemit....but he was just a piece of the big picture.

GoSox2K3
06-02-2009, 09:01 PM
Having just watched Betemit's error lead to 3 unearned runs tonight (so far, that is), I am wondering:

How many games has he cost us at 1B or 3B, and when will this insane experiment come to an end?

He's to 2009 what Andy Gonzalez was to 2007. A total disaster at 3rd. Nice haul we got from the Yankees in that Swisher trade.

Look on the bright side, Betemit isn't going to cost us the game. Even without him, we'd get shut out by Cy Mazzaro. But we all know from WSI that the Sox getting stymied by pitchers up from the minors is just a myth.

chisoxfanatic
06-02-2009, 09:10 PM
This team would've been better with Swisher instead of that bum.

getonbckthr
06-02-2009, 09:14 PM
The sooner Betemit and Wise are out of White Sox uniforms the better.

mweflen
06-02-2009, 09:15 PM
Just to be clear, by "The Jose Contreras Experiment," I am referring to this year's 0-5/8.19 debacle (so far, if the double header thing comes to pass).

I certainly wouldn't denigrate his performance in 05-06.

Eddo144
06-02-2009, 09:16 PM
All told, I'd say less than one.

Yeah, he stinks, but he hasn't had enough playing time to really make a difference. Every player contributes something, positive or negative, to every game. And tonight, they were already losing when he made the error, so it's not like he caused a blown lead or allowed Oakland to break a tie.

Fangraphs, for what it's worth, has him costing the Sox 0.15 wins on the year.

Soxman219
06-02-2009, 09:34 PM
I fully expect Betemit to be sent down after tonight.

Brian26
06-02-2009, 09:36 PM
I fully expect Betemit to be sent down after tonight.

To be replaced by whom?

areilly
06-02-2009, 09:37 PM
In what aspect of the game is Wise better than Anderson?

Sticktoitiveness, grindability, that kind of ****.

tsoxman
06-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Remember, you're talking about the GM of the David Wells Experiment, the Royce Clayton Experiment, the Jose Contreras Experiment, the Griffey Jr. Experiment, the Mike MacDougal Experiment...

So, in answer to your question, I would peg Betemit's stay at a 3 year extension, 3.5 mil per year, and a DFA at the midpoint of year three.

This is precisely why i do not understand kennys approach to this last off season...Seemingly, he does little to improve the club over the winter but all of a sudden, this spring, getting Jake Peavy is a huge priority!

hi im skot
06-02-2009, 09:40 PM
The bitterness in this thread is epic.

DSpivack
06-02-2009, 09:42 PM
The bitterness in this thread is epic.

This thread lacks umami.

getonbckthr
06-02-2009, 09:43 PM
To be replaced by whom?
Thats a good point. Sending Betemit down most likely means Fields is the backup 1B unless of course Ozzie and Kenny feel Nix can play some 1B.

Rdy2PlayBall
06-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Is this the post game thread? :tongue:

ChiSoxFan81
06-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Weren't we complaining about Betemit's lack of ability in the field in spring training? Can't say I didn't see this coming.

mccoydp
06-02-2009, 09:58 PM
I called this **** when I was bitching in the line-up thread this afternoon. :redneck

tacosalbarojas
06-02-2009, 10:45 PM
I fully expect Betemit to be sent down after tonight.
I could see it happening when TCQ is ready to return.

ilsox7
06-02-2009, 10:53 PM
This is precisely why i do not understand kennys approach to this last off season...Seemingly, he does little to improve the club over the winter but all of a sudden, this spring, getting Jake Peavy is a huge priority!

Actually, according to reports I read, KW had been working on a Peavy deal for almost a year. If you think the majority of discussions that GMs have become public knowledge, you are mistaken. Things get talked about, trades almost happen, moves almost made that no one here will ever know about.

Britt Burns
06-02-2009, 10:58 PM
Betemit just might be the worst-fielding Sox third baseman I can remember since...well, since they tried to make KW a 3rd baseman.

canOcorn
06-02-2009, 11:03 PM
Less than two months into the season, Betemit has been nothing short of piss-poor. He sucks in the field and has made little difference with his bat. He's only signed to a one-year contract, so he could easily be DFA'd. I hope KW makes it happen, but he probably won't.

That would force them to admit the mistake they made in trading Gio, DLS and Sweeney for Captain Morgan. None of those players may be worth **** now, but a healthy DLS, Gio, Sweeney and Texeira brings a far better return than Nunez at the time.

Queue the hindsight posts. :rolleyes:

hawkjt
06-02-2009, 11:06 PM
Bart has to want to strangle betimet. He cost him about 9 unearned runs in the 20-1 debacle and now 3 more tonite.
Betimet is just not a good fielder and when he is on the field, the ball seeks him out.

Rohan
06-02-2009, 11:22 PM
To quote some genius from an earlier thread..

Wilson simply needs a Beta Mit

:rolling::rolling:

thomas35forever
06-02-2009, 11:23 PM
I think Jojo can sum up our feelings for Betemit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9s3F8o34s

DumpJerry
06-02-2009, 11:27 PM
This team would've been better with Swisher instead of that bum.
Nope. It's break even. They're both bums.

JB98
06-02-2009, 11:30 PM
Nope. It's break even. They're both bums.

But Swisher was very popular in the clubhouse.

Jogurt
06-02-2009, 11:38 PM
I try to stay positive about everyone on the team... but oh man...
Player Committing Error & Unearned Runs Resulting in 2009
Betemit 11
Fields 4
Ramirez 3
Podsednik 2
Getz, Carrasco, & Lillibridge 1 each

chisoxfanatic
06-02-2009, 11:56 PM
Nope. It's break even. They're both bums.
Swisher's better defensively and is actually able to contribute in the hitting department. Betemit can't contribute in ANY way.

Iron Dragon2
06-02-2009, 11:59 PM
Betemit sucks. He must go.

soulfly
06-03-2009, 12:05 AM
Betemit is one of the worst baseball players I have ever seen. He needs to go. But probably won't. Mainly cause KW doesn't want to look even worse for that Swisher trade.

That said, who else can play 1B?

I have a feeling that isn't Josh that is going to be gone with Gordon comes up. It has to be Betemit. Gordon can play 2B, SS and 3B just as good as Betemit can. He also costs a lot less too.

There is no way that Betemit is back next year. He'd be making close to 2 million probably and is just downright terrible. Might as well DFA him now.

Wise is a close number two to sucking as bad as Betemit.

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2009, 12:23 AM
Betemit just might be the worst-fielding Sox third baseman I can remember since...well, since they tried to make KW a 3rd baseman.Nah, you're old enough to remember Carlos Martinez at third in '88 and '89. Now THAT was an adventure.

Betemit is awful, but after the error, why was Dye playing so shallow with the bases loaded, two outs, and a guy with good power at the plate? It's not like he had to play in to possibly throw out a tagging runner. A ball that drops in front of him would score one, a ball over his head scored all three.

Ranger
06-03-2009, 12:53 AM
Remember, you're talking about the GM of the David Wells Experiment, the Royce Clayton Experiment, the Jose Contreras Experiment, the Griffey Jr. Experiment, the Mike MacDougal Experiment...

So, in answer to your question, I would peg Betemit's stay at a 3 year extension, 3.5 mil per year, and a DFA at the midpoint of year three.

...the Freddy Garcia Experiment, the Jermaine Dye Experiment, the John Danks Experiment, the Carlos Quentin Experiment, the Tadahito Iguchi Experiment, the Scott Podsednik Experiment, the Matt Thornton Experiment, the Jim Thome Experiment, the Gavin Floyd Experiment, the Bobby Jenks experiment...not to mention the Mark Buehrle Extension...

And I saw you say, in a later post, something to the effect of "I wasn't talking about Contreras '05-'06..." Well, that one counts, too.

Let's not act like Kenny Williams has been a series of bad deals. That's just absurd. He hits more than he misses. The guy's not an idiot.

(And is David Wells really his fault? Wells won 20 games the year before and 19 the year after. Who knew he'd be an ***bag here?)

mweflen
06-03-2009, 01:35 AM
...the Freddy Garcia Experiment, the Jermaine Dye Experiment, the John Danks Experiment, the Carlos Quentin Experiment, the Tadahito Iguchi Experiment, the Scott Podsednik Experiment, the Matt Thornton Experiment, the Jim Thome Experiment, the Gavin Floyd Experiment, the Bobby Jenks experiment...not to mention the Mark Buehrle Extension...

And I saw you say, in a later post, something to the effect of "I wasn't talking about Contreras '05-'06..." Well, that one counts, too.

Let's not act like Kenny Williams has been a series of bad deals. That's just absurd. He hits more than he misses. The guy's not an idiot.

(And is David Wells really his fault? Wells won 20 games the year before and 19 the year after. Who knew he'd be an ***bag here?)

Nowhere do I say that everything KW has done has been a failure. Duh. I was excited about his moves in each of the years leading up to 2005, and I said then (I don't know if it's up on here, but you can ask my friends) that his 2005 moves had finally plugged the holes and made the Sox a deep-playoff-competitive team.

KW has had a string of many smart moves (for instance, unloading the salaries of CLee and Maggs in favor of Dye, AJ, Iguchi, and Freddy), and several lucky breaks, such as Quentin's breakout (probably a career year not to be repeated), and Alexei.

I'm just saying he's been known to stick with obvious failures a bit too long, and that Betemit seems like another in this line of failures. I'm assuming it's ego. Maybe it's money. But it certainly sucks to watch.

Nelson Foxtrot
06-03-2009, 02:16 AM
If Betemit is worthy of a major league job, it should be nothing more than pinch-hitting in the NL, provided he can once again hit like he did in 2005-6. As for his third baseman career, my guess is that those magic goggles trick managers into thinking he's Chris Sabo. You would think Ozzie, who played with Sabo, would know the difference. :scratch:

russ99
06-03-2009, 05:22 AM
If Betemit is worthy of a major league job, it should be nothing more than pinch-hitting in the NL, provided he can once again hit like he did in 2005-6. As for his third baseman career, my guess is that those magic goggles trick managers into thinking he's Chris Sabo. You would think Ozzie, who played with Sabo, would know the difference. :scratch:

I don't understand the bitterness about Betemit. We knew coming in that he can't field well, and he led the league in pinch hitting last season.

You guys are misdirecting your rage at Betemit due to Fields not cutting it, which is pushing Ozzie to use Wilson for more than his intended role, which is righty pinch-hitter with pop.

If Fields were playing well enough to hold down the job, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

doublem23
06-03-2009, 06:08 AM
Weren't we complaining about Betemit's lack of ability in the field in spring training? Can't say I didn't see this coming.

Yeah, but the Sox were moving Betemit around, IIRC, and really, nobody actually gives a **** about Spring Training, especially for guys that are locks to make the team anyway.

Betemit has been an epic dissapointment. The only thing good he's done is allow the Sox to get rid of Nick Swisher.

doublem23
06-03-2009, 06:11 AM
Swisher's better defensively and is actually able to contribute in the hitting department. Betemit can't contribute in ANY way.

But Swisher is a corner OF who makes a lot more than Betemit, and if he were here guess who'd still be on this team? Lillibridge!

P.S., I know Swisher started off real hot this year and everyone complained about trading him, but he's back to hitting .236 again. So yeah, he still sucks.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2009, 06:49 AM
I would rather have Lillibridge than Betemit. At least Lillibridge can play the field and run the bases.

white sox bill
06-03-2009, 08:04 AM
You guys are way too hard on Betemint....there has to be an upside to him. Maybe his glasses are cool???

slavko
06-03-2009, 08:53 AM
Have we forgotten his B.O.? We must have gone soft in our old age.

kittle42
06-03-2009, 08:56 AM
I don't understand the bitterness about Betemit. We knew coming in that he can't field well, and he led the league in pinch hitting last season.

You guys are misdirecting your rage at Betemit due to Fields not cutting it, which is pushing Ozzie to use Wilson for more than his intended role, which is righty pinch-hitter with pop.

If Fields were playing well enough to hold down the job, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

This is a really well-reasoned post among a ****storm of angst. It's obvious Betemit should never play 3B again. If he does, it is all on Ozzie. But yes, if Fields was doing his job, he'd be there 9/10 games.

MeteorsSox4367
06-03-2009, 09:08 AM
Betemit sucks. There has to be a reason why he's been with Atlanta, the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Sox. Am I missing any other teams?

When he came up with the Braves, I remember them saying he was going to be their shortstop for the next decade or so.

Now, he's the Sox' newest version of Andy Gonzalez.

In the words of Hawk, "not good."

kaufsox
06-03-2009, 09:32 AM
All told, I'd say less than one.

Yeah, he stinks, but he hasn't had enough playing time to really make a difference.

Which makes his five (or is it six now) errors even more dissappointing.:mad:

SephClone89
06-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Trib reports that Ozzie hinted that Goggles may be DHing in tonight's game...brilliant. Thought I wasn't going to have to see this clown.

ChiSoxFan81
06-03-2009, 09:48 AM
I nominate Bettermitt for the lead-glove award.

kittle42
06-03-2009, 09:55 AM
Trib reports that Ozzie hinted that Goggles may be DHing in tonight's game...brilliant. Thought I wasn't going to have to see this clown.

Goddamnit. Reward someone who can't hit or field with unnecessary playing time. Nice.

WhiteSoxFTW
06-03-2009, 10:15 AM
Yeah, but the Sox were moving Betemit around, IIRC, and really, nobody actually gives a **** about Spring Training, especially for guys that are locks to make the team anyway.

Betemit has been an epic dissapointment. The only thing good he's done is allow the Sox to get rid of Nick Swisher.

Wasn't getting rid of Swisher what that trade was all about? Did the Sox really WANT Wilson?

doublem23
06-03-2009, 10:34 AM
Wasn't getting rid of Swisher what that trade was all about? Did the Sox really WANT Wilson?

Sort of, I think, to replace Uribe who was let go because we would have had to pay him something like $4-$5 million this year to keep him.

But yeah, I think KW took the first offer he got to get rid of Swisher. And for good reason, man does he suck.

FielderJones
06-03-2009, 10:49 AM
Can any of you computer media wizards put together a few Betamit error clips into a Keyboard Cat video?

It's Dankerific
06-03-2009, 10:50 AM
Goddamnit. Reward someone who can't hit or field with unnecessary playing time. Nice.

Thats not new. Perhaps Betemit just needs enough at bats to make a decision on him.

amsteel
06-03-2009, 10:54 AM
Can any of you computer media wizards put together a few Betamit error clips into a Keyboard Cat video?

This would be amazing

hawkjt
06-03-2009, 11:00 AM
I don't understand the bitterness about Betemit. We knew coming in that he can't field well, and he led the league in pinch hitting last season.

You guys are misdirecting your rage at Betemit due to Fields not cutting it, which is pushing Ozzie to use Wilson for more than his intended role, which is righty pinch-hitter with pop.

If Fields were playing well enough to hold down the job, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.


No, Ozzie said after the game he wants to keep Betemit fresh by giving him occasional starts. We have seen that is an Ozzie philosophy to play his subs. Pinch-hitting is almost non-existent in the AL and that is not enough for Ozzie in terms of playing his bench guys. If Fields was hitting .350, Wilson would still be getting an occasional start.

kittle42
06-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Thats not new. Perhaps Betemit just needs enough at bats to make a decision on him.

Betemit playing over Fields, I can understand (well, could understand, until he had yet another error). Betemit playing over Konerko or Thome is pretty befuddling. Of course, we need another 1B to avoid that.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2009, 11:14 AM
I do not want to rush Beckham, but I will be quite pleased when he does get called up. Hopefully he plays third, which pushes Fields to the backup 3B/1B/DH role (something in which I think he can excel), which hopefully pushes Betemit off the roster entirely.

I'm willing to accept that Betemit (like Wise) may be a perfectly decent human being. But (like Wise) he's just not a very good baseball player.

voodoochile
06-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Nowhere do I say that everything KW has done has been a failure. Duh. I was excited about his moves in each of the years leading up to 2005, and I said then (I don't know if it's up on here, but you can ask my friends) that his 2005 moves had finally plugged the holes and made the Sox a deep-playoff-competitive team.

KW has had a string of many smart moves (for instance, unloading the salaries of CLee and Maggs in favor of Dye, AJ, Iguchi, and Freddy), and several lucky breaks, such as Quentin's breakout (probably a career year not to be repeated), and Alexei.

I'm just saying he's been known to stick with obvious failures a bit too long, and that Betemit seems like another in this line of failures. I'm assuming it's ego. Maybe it's money. But it certainly sucks to watch.

It's only been 2 months and the Sox have been plagued by injuries and slumps. I'm actually expecting Betemit to be the guy who goes away when TCQ comes back. If not then, then for sure when Beckham gets called up which now seems a foregone conclusion...

It's Dankerific
06-03-2009, 11:21 AM
Betemit playing over Fields, I can understand (well, could understand, until he had yet another error). Betemit playing over Konerko or Thome is pretty befuddling. Of course, we need another 1B to avoid that.

Its surprising to me that Nix can play all the other IF (and OF apparently. :rolleyes:) but can't play 1B to give Konerko a break. If Thome is the one that needs a break, let Dye have a day DH'ing.

There's really no downside to having Betemit off the team. I almost think we'd be better with a 24 man roster, if thats what it took. Maybe we can get him riled up and get a suspension for doing something crazy.

kittle42
06-03-2009, 11:31 AM
And speaking of 3B, where are all those folks who were touting Fields' great displays of power over a partial 2007 season? Unfortunately for Josh, hitting the ball out of the park requires actually touching the ball with your bat first.

sullythered
06-03-2009, 11:32 AM
Wilson Badmitt is absolutely horrible. I haven't disliked a sox player this intensely since Jamie Navarro.

It's Dankerific
06-03-2009, 11:39 AM
And speaking of 3B, where are all those folks who were touting Fields' great displays of power over a partial 2007 season? Unfortunately for Josh, hitting the ball out of the park requires actually touching the ball with your bat first.

Guillen has expressed disappointment in him. Therefore, the number of his supporters will wane.

Jenks4Prez
06-03-2009, 11:41 AM
The original post is awesome. Betemit sucks the big one.

mccoydp
06-03-2009, 11:43 AM
Wilson Badmitt is absolutely horrible. I haven't disliked a sox player this intensely since Jamie Navarro.

How about Andy Gonzalez?

Ranger
06-03-2009, 12:06 PM
Nowhere do I say that everything KW has done has been a failure. Duh. I was excited about his moves in each of the years leading up to 2005, and I said then (I don't know if it's up on here, but you can ask my friends) that his 2005 moves had finally plugged the holes and made the Sox a deep-playoff-competitive team.

KW has had a string of many smart moves (for instance, unloading the salaries of CLee and Maggs in favor of Dye, AJ, Iguchi, and Freddy), and several lucky breaks, such as Quentin's breakout (probably a career year not to be repeated), and Alexei.

I'm just saying he's been known to stick with obvious failures a bit too long, and that Betemit seems like another in this line of failures. I'm assuming it's ego. Maybe it's money. But it certainly sucks to watch.

Most normal teams sometimes stick with players for a little bit after they've lost their ability. Especially when the players are under contract. Unless you're a team like the A's that doesn't even allow guys to reach their prime before they trade them.

Your original post implied that he didn't know what he was doing. Evidence of that is your suggestion that he'll give Betemit a 3 year deal. The implication is that you think Kenny is stupid. And though you didn't actually come right out and say those exact words, wouldn't he have to be?

WhiteSoxFTW
06-03-2009, 12:29 PM
It's only been 2 months and the Sox have been plagued by injuries and slumps. I'm actually expecting Betemit to be the guy who goes away when TCQ comes back. If not then, then for sure when Beckham gets called up which now seems a foregone conclusion...

You think they will get rid of a utility IF instead of sending down Gobble or Whisler when TCQ gets back? I'm betting it's a RP instead of Wilson.

kravdog
06-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Wilson Badmitt is absolutely horrible. I haven't disliked a sox player this intensely since Jamie Navarro.

Damaso Marte?

ChiSoxFan81
06-03-2009, 12:40 PM
Wilson Badmitt is absolutely horrible. I haven't disliked a sox player this intensely since Jamie Navarro.

Were you saying boo, or Boo-temit?

Tragg
06-03-2009, 12:43 PM
Betemit is a utility infielder - "he is what he is".

The Sox waste way too many resources chasing utility infielders. Very few are consistently good.
You can get them for the league minimum OR use young players there as a development tool.
Trading for them has simply wasted resources.

Risk
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm still kind of shocked that Betemit broke into the league as a SS.

BTW, I have to agree with the posters who have said that Carlos Martinez and Andy Gonzalez were just as bad if not worse.

Risk

Chez
06-03-2009, 01:11 PM
You think they will get rid of a utility IF instead of sending down Gobble or Whisler when TCQ gets back? I'm betting it's a RP instead of Wilson.

I would agree with you but for the fact that someone (a pitcher) has to go down on Monday when Contreras is activated to pitch one of the games of the doubleheader.

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:17 PM
And speaking of 3B, where are all those folks who were touting Fields' great displays of power over a partial 2007 season?

Is this a joke? Or is it simply you becoming one? He hit 23 homeruns in 373 AB's. That wasn't enough power for you?

Fields has been swinging the bat a lot better, anyway. WSI must have had their blindfolds on (surprise!) during his 7-game hitting streak.

GregO23
06-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Betemit playing over Fields, I can understand (well, could understand, until he had yet another error). Betemit playing over Konerko or Thome is pretty befuddling. Of course, we need another 1B to avoid that.


ANDY PHILLIPS! Hes hitting .320 with Cha, has 6 homeruns and could play 1B, 3B and Corner Outfield. Not sure how his fielding is at 3B, but if I remember correctly its pretty good at 1B

kittle42
06-03-2009, 01:26 PM
Is this a joke? Or is it simply you becoming one? He hit 23 homeruns in 373 AB's. That wasn't enough power for you?

Fields has been swinging the bat a lot better, anyway. WSI must have had their blindfolds on (surprise!) during his 7-game hitting streak.

1. I was a joke a long time ago.

2. I wasn't saying he didn't display great power in 2007. He obviously did. I was saying where are the folks who banked on it happening again this season, 'cause I'm not seeing it. If has was hitting in the .240s with all those strikeouts but was also supplying fine power numbers, no one would care - I think that's what was expected.

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:35 PM
1. I was a joke a long time ago.

2. I wasn't saying he didn't display great power in 2007. He obviously did. I was saying where are the folks who banked on it happening again this season, 'cause I'm not seeing it. If has was hitting in the .240s with all those strikeouts but was also supplying fine power numbers, no one would care - I think that's what was expected.

The power hasn't suddenly disappeared.

I love how Fields has become more of a whipping boy after he starts to turn it around rather than when he was really struggling to do anything. The guy just snapped a 7-game hitting streak in which he came up with some big 2-out RBI's. How was that missed?

Konerko05
06-03-2009, 01:36 PM
1. I was a joke a long time ago.

2. I wasn't saying he didn't display great power in 2007. He obviously did. I was saying where are the folks who banked on it happening again this season, 'cause I'm not seeing it. If has was hitting in the .240s with all those strikeouts but was also supplying fine power numbers, no one would care - I think that's what was expected.

Most people on this site seemed to excuse all Fields' other inadequacies because he hit for power. His 23 homeruns in 2007 were referenced in every argument.

Now Fields' game is nothing but inadequacies. Why should anyone be impressed with a 7 game hit streak of a bad defensive strikeout machine who lost all his power?

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:38 PM
ANDY PHILLIPS! Hes hitting .320 with Cha, has 6 homeruns and could play 1B, 3B and Corner Outfield. Not sure how his fielding is at 3B, but if I remember correctly its pretty good at 1B

This is a case of the grass always being greener on the other side. A month from now there would be an 'All-Purpose Phillips Complaint Thread.'

DonnieDarko
06-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Fields power, while it may not have completely disappeared, has definitely not been shown lately. I mean, he needs to take good swings at good pitches to hit...and he seems to be falling back into that trap where he strikes out 2-3 times a game on fastballs that he just can't catch up to.

Seriously, I can't understand it. You can't be a successful major leaguer if you can't hit a ****ing fastball, and suddenly Fields seems to have forgotten how to (at least within the last few days).

Also on Betemit, whoever said that we should bring up Andy Phillips is right. He basically plays the same positions as Betemit does now, and I doubt that he can be any worse. Seeing Betemit play REALLY makes me uncomfortable.

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:45 PM
Most people on this site seemed to excuse all Fields' other inadequacies because he hit for power. His 23 homeruns in 2007 were referenced in every argument.

Now Fields' game is nothing but inadequacies. Why should anyone be impressed with a 7 game hit streak of a bad defensive strikeout machine who lost all his power?

You don't have to be 'impressed' by it, but at least acknowledge that it happened. The way WSI is making it sound, Fields is currently on an 0-for-50 streak.

And once again, his power went where? Fields is a worse hitter when he's swinging for the fences. I think you can attribute his major slump to that. He's a strong enough guy that the power will be there if he continues to do what he did earlier this year.

Risk
06-03-2009, 01:49 PM
How did this thread about Betemit being an inadequate to poor player turn into a bitch-fest about Fields's inadequacies when he had the game off?

Oh wait, its WSI...:rolleyes:

Risk

Konerko05
06-03-2009, 01:54 PM
You don't have to be 'impressed' by it, but at least acknowledge that it happened. The way WSI is making it sound, Fields is currently on an 0-for-50 streak.

And once again, his power went where? Fields is a worse hitter when he's swinging for the fences. I think you can attribute his major slump to that. He's a strong enough guy that the power will be there if he continues to do what he did earlier this year.

I've acknowledged it, but it doesn't change my opinion.

I'm not sure where Fields' power went. It might be there somewhere. The problem is that power is basically Fields' only skill that can help a major league ball club. If he isn't hitting for power, he's a huge detriment.

LITTLE NELL
06-03-2009, 01:55 PM
We would not be having this discussion if KW had kept Uribe. I think it was a big mistake.

Konerko05
06-03-2009, 01:55 PM
How did this thread about Betemit being an inadequate to poor player turn into a bitch-fest about Fields's inadequacies when he had the game off?

Oh wait, its WSI...:rolleyes:

Risk

I forgot we are not allowed to talk about players when they had the day off. Sorry Risk. Get your **** together WSI.

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:55 PM
I've acknowledged it, but it doesn't change my opinion.

I'm not sure where Fields' power went. It might be there somewhere. The problem is that power is basically Fields' only skill that can help a major league ball club. If he isn't hitting for power, he's a huge detriment.

That's not true at all. So he was a huge detriment at the beginning of the year when he was driving in crucial runs? He wasn't doing it with power, so that must be the case? :scratch:

The power is still there. Josh needs to just keep it simple and let it come, rather than forcing it. His minor league stats show this quite well: when Josh's power goes up, the rest of his game suffers.

EDIT: And I'm talking about the message board as a whole acknowledging it. The 'if only Fields could make contact with the ball', 'Fields needs to step up his game', etc. comments just make you look like a fool when Fields is actually swinging a good bat right now.

voodoochile
06-03-2009, 02:01 PM
You think they will get rid of a utility IF instead of sending down Gobble or Whisler when TCQ gets back? I'm betting it's a RP instead of Wilson.

They've got Nix already, but it leaves them thin at 1B backup. Most teams won't carry 5 OF who can only play OF. Like I said, when Beckham gets here for sure, but it wouldn't shock me if they kept Wise and Pods and BA and dumped Betemit. He's been horrible this year. He got off to a hot start with the bat, but that hasn't stayed good either. He's worthless in the field too...

Risk
06-03-2009, 02:02 PM
We would not be having this discussion if KW had kept Uribe.

No. People would still bitch about Uribe (and I know I would be one of them too).

Risk

voodoochile
06-03-2009, 02:03 PM
We would not be having this discussion if KW had kept Uribe. I think it was a big mistake.

Can't spend $4M+ when all you've got is 50 cents...

Harry Chappas
06-03-2009, 02:03 PM
That's not true at all. So he was a huge detriment at the beginning of the year when he was driving in crucial runs? He wasn't doing it with power, so that must be the case? :scratch:

The power is still there. Josh needs to just keep it simple and let it come, rather than forcing it. His minor league stats show this quite well: when Josh's power goes up, the rest of his game suffers.

I'm not sure Fields is pressing. I think if he were, we'd be seeing it in the field as well. No one will confuse him with Ventura, but he seems to have settled down a bit.

Does anyone else think the flaw is mechanical? He seems to have a loop in his swing which might explain why he gets dusted by mediocre fastballs.

Konerko05
06-03-2009, 02:05 PM
That's not true at all. So he was a huge detriment at the beginning of the year when he was driving in crucial runs? He wasn't doing it with power, so that must be the case? :scratch:

On defense? Yes.

In April, he had a .360 OBP. No, he was not a detriment offensively in April. In May, he had a .266 OBP.

If he could hit like he did in April every month, I would be alright with Josh Fields at 3B. It's just unrealistic.

For the record, I think he's somewhere in the middle of those two months. A .310 OBP would be somewhat acceptable if he was playing defense or hitting for power, but he's doing neither. Therefore, he's a huge detriment.

DonnieDarko
06-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Does anyone else think the flaw is mechanical? He seems to have a loop in his swing which might explain why he gets dusted by mediocre fastballs.

"Loop in his swing"? You mean that he keeps the bat back further before swinging at a ball? Not too sure I get this. But if the problem is his swing mechanics (like I think it is), then someone had better get to him ASAP. We need him to do whatever he did at the beginning of the season for as much of the season as possible.

Risk
06-03-2009, 02:07 PM
Does anyone else think the flaw is mechanical? He seems to have a loop in his swing which might explain why he gets dusted by mediocre fastballs.



I thought I overheard either Harrelson or Stoney saying during the game Monday that it looked like he had a hitch or something in his swing. But not being a hitting expert, I couldn't tell you.

Risk

jabrch
06-03-2009, 02:07 PM
No one will confuse him with Ventura, but he seems to have settled down a bit.

Ventura wasn't great with the glove when he first got here.

DaveFeelsRight
06-03-2009, 02:07 PM
We would not be having this discussion if KW had kept Uribe. I think it was a big mistake.I miss him :(:

jabrch
06-03-2009, 02:09 PM
If he could hit like he did in April every month, I would be alright with Josh Fields at 3B. It's just unrealistic.


I don't believe it is unrealistic to assume that it is possible that he can be adequate enough offensively while making the league minimum to be a productive starter for us. He's shown he can.

It is, in fact, unrealistic to conclude that there is no way this is possible.

oeo
06-03-2009, 02:10 PM
On defense? Yes.

In April, he had a .360 OBP. No, he was not a detriment offensively in April. In May, he had a .266 OBP.

If he could hit like he did in April every month, I would be alright with Josh Fields at 3B. It's just unrealistic.

First off, thanks for agreeing that power is not his only strong point, but explain how a .257/.360/.378 is unrealistic. Just because? I'll go out and say not only is it realistic, but that he can improve upon those numbers now that the ball is starting to fly out of the Cell again.

For the record, I think he's somewhere in the middle of those two months. A .310 OBP would be somewhat acceptable if he was playing defense or hitting for power, but he's doing neither. Therefore, he's a huge detriment.A .310 OBP should never be "acceptable." Mark my words, it will move back up.

Konerko05
06-03-2009, 02:23 PM
First off, thanks for agreeing that power is not his only strong point, but explain how a .257/.360/.378 is unrealistic. Just because? I'll go out and say not only is it realistic, but that he can improve upon those numbers now that the ball is starting to fly out of the Cell again.

A .310 OBP should never be "acceptable." Mark my words, it will move back up.

He will never walk enough and he strikes out way too much to ever consistently post a .360 OBP. His power will improve, but that's about it.

He may have hot months here and there, but when he's bad he's really bad. That's evident by a whole month of being overpowered by 90mph fastballs.

Whitesoxfan23
06-03-2009, 02:34 PM
At least Uribe was a freaking vacuum cleaner on the field. Fields isn't doing great at the plate or at third base. Give me Uribe anyday of the week, over Fields if Fields can't hit. His swing is VERY flawed. Just look at it. Uribe wasn't good offensively either, but he was really good at defense. Tell me what Fields is good at? Oh wait....

tsoxman
06-03-2009, 02:38 PM
Wasn't getting rid of Swisher what that trade was all about? Did the Sox really WANT Wilson?

Unfortunately, Kenny's offseason was all about GETTING RID of guys all for good reasons by the way. I cannot fault or second guess one move he made in the 'Purge Department'. My beef is the he did not replace the production and versatility that eas let go. If finances were a problem last offseason and thus the reason for this, why were we pursuing Jake Peavy (and his $11 million salary) this spring?

sullythered
06-03-2009, 02:56 PM
Were you saying boo, or Boo-temit?
I was saying boo-urns.

sullythered
06-03-2009, 02:58 PM
How about Andy Gonzalez?
I didn't really hate Andy Gonzalez. Like that whole season, he just made me kinda sad.

Badmitt was supposed to actually be something better, and he is truly atrocious.

DonnieDarko
06-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Unfortunately, Kenny's offseason was all about GETTING RID of guys all for good reasons by the way. I cannot fault or second guess one move he made in the 'Purge Department'. My beef is the he did not replace the production and versatility that eas let go. If finances were a problem last offseason and thus the reason for this, why were we pursuing Jake Peavy (and his $11 million salary) this spring?

Because with the talent that Jake Peavy has, you try to get him in any way possible. Even if that means breaking the bank a little bit. Starting pitching of his caliber is NOT common. Getting him could mean the difference between a just a simple playoff run and another World Series title.

infohawk
06-03-2009, 03:02 PM
To be replaced by whom?
Hey...Kenny Williams just called and asked me to sign a one-year contract to be the back-up third baseman for the Sox! He said, "Infohawk, our scouts think you can pick it just as well as Betimit, and we only have to pay you the League minimum. Can you get here by five?"

DirtySox
06-03-2009, 03:07 PM
Kenny is pursuing front line pitching more so for the longterm than right now. This team isn't built to make a world series run at the moment and doesn't have much pitching depth in the minors. Starting pitching will need to be addressed in the off season anyways, and with all the money coming off the books at the end of the season Kenny is taking advantage of teams wanting to shed salary now. Adding an ace will make this team quite strong for 2010 and beyond with the potential additions of our position player prospects.

JB98
06-03-2009, 03:16 PM
Kenny is pursuing front line pitching more so for the longterm than right now. This team isn't built to make a world series run at the moment and doesn't have much pitching depth in the minors. Starting pitching will need to be addressed in the off season anyways, and with all the money coming off the books at the end of the season Kenny is taking advantage of teams wanting to shed salary now. Adding an ace will make this team quite strong for 2010 and beyond with the potential additions of our position player prospects.

Good points. If he adds pitching, I hope he stays away from Bedard, however. I'm not convinced he's the guy we need.

JB98
06-03-2009, 03:22 PM
I didn't really hate Andy Gonzalez. Like that whole season, he just made me kinda sad.

Badmitt was supposed to actually be something better, and he is truly atrocious.

I checked the defensive stats, and Betemit has booted four of the eight grounders hit to him in six games at 3B this season.

His fielding percentage at 3B is .500. Small sample size, but still just preposterous.

DirtySox
06-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Good points. If he adds pitching, I hope he stays away from Bedard, however. I'm not convinced he's the guy we need.

I like Bedard, but not as a midseason acquisition as he will be a free agent at the end of the season and is relatively injury plagued. If he makes it through the year without injury while continuing to put up the numbers he has been I wouldn't mind signing him in the offseason. Kenny is trying to acquire someone cheaply due to the economy which would allow him to gain a pricey piece without mortgaging the farm.

GregO23
06-03-2009, 04:43 PM
This is a case of the grass always being greener on the other side. A month from now there would be an 'All-Purpose Phillips Complaint Thread.'
Yes, I understand that, but it could also be the opposite...All he has to do is hit .240 and play average defense and that is sooooo much better then Bete-no-mit

twinsuck
06-03-2009, 05:48 PM
I hate him, I hate him, I HATE HIM!!!
:puking::Betemit:

Noneck
06-03-2009, 10:26 PM
See You never

ChiSoxFan81
06-03-2009, 10:28 PM
If only he could have gotten a couple more hits.....his batting average would have been higher than his fielding percentage.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2009, 10:33 PM
Would it be considered bad form to start a "Wilson Betemit Appreciation Thread?"

Brian26
06-03-2009, 10:35 PM
Less than two months into the season, Betemit has been nothing short of piss-poor. He sucks in the field and has made little difference with his bat. He's only signed to a one-year contract, so he could easily be DFA'd. I hope KW makes it happen, but he probably won't.

It only took Kenny 24 hours to grant your wish.

Can you put in a call about Brandon Webb now? :redneck

Ron Karkovice
06-04-2009, 11:41 AM
i hate him, i hate him, i hate him!!!
:puking::betemit:

racist!

thomas35forever
06-04-2009, 12:00 PM
racist!
Teal?:scratch: