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View Full Version : Richard: Keep him or trade him?


thomas35forever
05-29-2009, 10:21 PM
I know Richard has been tossed around as possible trade bait for the Sox to get a quality starter. Then again, he could become another ace for this team in the future. My question is what should the Sox do with him?

HebrewHammer
05-29-2009, 10:23 PM
Trade him for Sidney Ponson? No. Roy Halladay? Yes.

Domeshot17
05-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Kenny knows what he is doing. He is trading (well Peavy rejected us, so trying to trade) this kid while he is hot. He isn't going to sustain long term success. Now if the perfect time to trade him. The idea he is going to become another ACE is just far fetched. It actually sucks how losely we use the term ACE around here.

central44
05-29-2009, 10:29 PM
Yeah it really depends on the situation. Clayton Richard is a good fit for this rotation, especially considering all that he has in common with Buehrle and Danks in his approach to pitching. If he can learn from those guys, it could be in our best interest to keep him--unless a deal for a big time ace comes up, in which case the Sox would probably have to jump on it.

eastchicagosoxfan
05-29-2009, 10:38 PM
He throws first strikes. First pitch strikes. We'll see what happens once there's a book on him. Keep him unless the offer knocks your socks off.

Brian26
05-29-2009, 10:41 PM
Kenny knows what he is doing. He is trading (well Peavy rejected us, so trying to trade) this kid while he is hot. He isn't going to sustain long term success.

What is this opinion based on?

pearso66
05-29-2009, 10:52 PM
What is this opinion based on?

His name is Clayton. As in Royce

oeo
05-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Kenny knows what he is doing. He is trading (well Peavy rejected us, so trying to trade) this kid while he is hot. He isn't going to sustain long term success. Now if the perfect time to trade him. The idea he is going to become another ACE is just far fetched. It actually sucks how losely we use the term ACE around here.

He wasn't "hot" when the whole Peavy thing went down. He had one good start.

I say trade him, if someone likes him enough. I don't think he's got anything special, other than being a bulldog.

WhiteSox5187
05-29-2009, 11:22 PM
It depends who we are trading him for. I wouldn't trade him for a nobody, but if a top of the line starter came along, I'd be all for it....well, I'd certainly consider it.

Tragg
05-29-2009, 11:40 PM
He stinks. He wasn't great in his first 2 starts and he doesn't throw 95 so he can't be any good.
And last year? My goodness; he was called up (rushed) in the heat of the race and got knocked around a few times.
Just awful.

let's dump him for someone over 30 please...the Sox need a reliable veteran.

russ99
05-29-2009, 11:49 PM
Clayton's pitching well enough to push his trade value to an all time high. He never was a highly regarded prospect until this year, and could disappear off the radar just as quickly.

Personally, I'd like to see the Sox go after a more experienced guy than throw Richard to the wolves the rest of the year, since he might be exposed, and we'd then end up getting nothing for him. I really don't see 3rd starter material there, much less Ace material. And I'm certainly not on board with a mix and match back end of the rotation with Richard, Colon and Contreras the rest of the year...

And no way would he bring back Halliday. Let's be realistic here.

cards press box
05-29-2009, 11:50 PM
He isn't going to sustain long term success. Now if the perfect time to trade him.

It is hard to say what kind of success Clayton Richard will have long term. He seems to be throwing a fastball, a slider (or is it a curve) and a change up. That slider looked awfully tough tonight and, significantly, he walked 1 but struck out 7 in 7 innings. This year, Richard has struck out 30 in 40 innings and his strikeouts have increased lately. Incidentally, in the playoffs last year, Richard struck out 6 in 6 and 1/3 innings.

Richard's slider looked devastating on the righties tonight. Richard has a great move to first and has two great lefties to learn from -- Mark Buerhle and Johnny Danks.

Even if Richard doesn't project as an ace, a lefty who projects as a #2 or #3 is valuable. I'm starting to think that not trading Richard and Aaron Poreda might well be the best trade that KW makes this year.

chisox77
05-30-2009, 12:00 AM
Keep Richard in most situations. If an attractive deal for a veteran starter materializes, consider it, but even as a #3 or #4 in the rotation, he could be valuable for the White Sox - for a while. We'll just have to see, but Richard has responded quite well since the attempted Peavy trade.

Gavin
05-30-2009, 12:04 AM
Might as well be titled: "Keep the starter who's keeping us alive???!!??111"

What a stupid thread.

jabrch
05-30-2009, 12:05 AM
Trade him for Sidney Ponson? No. Roy Halladay? Yes.

My sentiments exactly Ham.

If he is part of a deal with Poreda to get a legit #1 SP, then trade him. If can be used to get a back of the rotation guy, then keep him.

rdivaldi
05-30-2009, 12:18 AM
My sentiments exactly Ham.

If he is part of a deal with Poreda to get a legit #1 SP, then trade him. If can be used to get a back of the rotation guy, then keep him.

I agree as well. Young left handers that throw strikes in the mid/high 90s are not all that common. Unless you have an opportunity to land an all-star quality player, you keep them.

Hitmen77
05-30-2009, 12:25 AM
Trade him for Sidney Ponson? No. Roy Halladay? Yes.

Exactly. I can't answer the poll because it depend who we get for him.

I wouldn't trade him just to "sell high", but I wouldn't want him to be untouchable either.

voodoochile
05-30-2009, 12:27 AM
Might as well be titled: "Keep the starter who's keeping us alive???!!??111"

What a stupid thread.

Do you actually watch the Sox or just come around to gripe? Have you been watching as they've won 7/10 this last week and a half? That's not just Richard, the whole team looks better.

In addition, the Sox have given up the following run totals since getting smacked around in Toronto...

3-4-20-0-0-3-3-2-1-2. That's a real solid run even with that horrific looking 20 early on.

Of course if you can package Richard for a top of the rotation starter, you do it. He's a nice bottom of the rotation pitcher, but it's doubtful he'll ever be a top 2 and he's the third lefty in the rotation. That's just not a real common thing to do...

johnnyg83
05-30-2009, 12:43 AM
the guy is young, to predict an inevitable collapse as a foregone conclusion is silly...

the royals announcers were praising him tonight.

I'll take the cheap 5th starter.

slavko
05-30-2009, 01:00 AM
We're so used to not developing our own players that many of us have developed a phobia about it. See a shrink, will ya?

Rohan
05-30-2009, 01:02 AM
We're so used to not developing our own players that many of us have developed a phobia about it. See a shrink, will ya?
:)

JB98
05-30-2009, 01:03 AM
Exactly. I can't answer the poll because it depend who we get for him.

I wouldn't trade him just to "sell high", but I wouldn't want him to be untouchable either.

Agreed. I think Richard is a useful pitcher who happens to be throwing the ball very, very well right now. I'd part with him if it meant acquiring a legit ace, but trading him to "sell high" would be preposterous.

palehozenychicty
05-30-2009, 01:18 AM
Agreed. I think Richard is a useful pitcher who happens to be throwing the ball very, very well right now. I'd part with him if it meant acquiring a legit ace, but trading him to "sell high" would be preposterous.


Thank you. We had wondered about the back end of our rotation. He's shown positive flashes, and people are still hating. I'll take the wins, Clayton. :D:

Nellie_Fox
05-30-2009, 01:28 AM
Exactly. I can't answer the poll because it depend who we get for him.There is now an option for you (and me.)

balke
05-30-2009, 09:42 AM
IF there's a package that gets you a right handed ace who is young enough to have 3-4 years left in him as a top pitcher, you pull the trigger. The Sox would look awesome with a right handed Ace next Buehrle.

nug0hs
05-30-2009, 10:58 AM
Clayton's stats:

2008: In 47.2 IP, 61 H, 32 ER, 5 HR, 13 BB, 29 SO, 6.04 ERA
2009: In 40 IP, 42 H, 15 ER, 4 HR, 15 BB, 30 SO, 3.38 ERA

Thats what I call improvement folks!

hawkjt
05-30-2009, 11:11 AM
Last three outings...20 innings ,4 earned runs, 3-0?

Yea, lets get him outta here ASAP...before he wins another 3 in a row.

The kid is just starting to hit his stride in the majors...throws 95+,is throwing strikes, has a decent slider and changeup...and is a lefty.
Why would you not keep him?
He costs the league minimum,also.
I like having 3 leftys in the rotation vs the Twinkies and Tribe.
Keep it going Clay.

Hitmen77
05-30-2009, 12:38 PM
There is now an option for you (and me.)

Thanks!:thumbsup:

Gavin
05-30-2009, 12:39 PM
Do you actually watch the Sox or just come around to gripe? Have you been watching as they've won 7/10 this last week and a half? That's not just Richard, the whole team looks better.

In addition, the Sox have given up the following run totals since getting smacked around in Toronto...

3-4-20-0-0-3-3-2-1-2. That's a real solid run even with that horrific looking 20 early on.

Of course if you can package Richard for a top of the rotation starter, you do it. He's a nice bottom of the rotation pitcher, but it's doubtful he'll ever be a top 2 and he's the third lefty in the rotation. That's just not a real common thing to do...

Yes, I do watch the Sox. And I do notice that we hardly have a #4 pitcher, let alone a #5, despite what your (very impressive) pitching stats on runs say.

Like you said that's only the last week and a half. I'm talking about a season.

So the idea of trading Richard right now seems kind of stupid.

doublem23
05-30-2009, 01:10 PM
So the idea of trading Richard right now seems kind of stupid.

No one is suggesting we run him out of town on a rail as fast as possible, but you honestly wouldn't part with Clayton if he were in a package for a guy like Peavy?

DirtySox
05-30-2009, 01:19 PM
Talk continues (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1599302,CST-SPT-sox30.article)that KW is looking for front line pitching. If Clayton is packaged eventually for an Oswalt, Cain, Webb etc, then so be it.

tick53
05-30-2009, 03:17 PM
Keep him. He's coming around.

BigP50
05-30-2009, 10:54 PM
from what I have seen of Clayton, you keep him because he will be like this for awhile and then see if u can get a really good player in return in about a month

jabrch
05-30-2009, 11:00 PM
Talk continues (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1599302,CST-SPT-sox30.article)that KW is looking for front line pitching. If Clayton is packaged eventually for an Oswalt, Cain, Webb etc, then so be it.

Agreed!

BadBobbyJenks
05-30-2009, 11:09 PM
If a package of Poreda/Richard brings anything close to Peavy, then send them on their way. Sadly, I dont see that happening.

voodoochile
05-31-2009, 12:05 AM
Yes, I do watch the Sox. And I do notice that we hardly have a #4 pitcher, let alone a #5, despite what your (very impressive) pitching stats on runs say.

Like you said that's only the last week and a half. I'm talking about a season.

So the idea of trading Richard right now seems kind of stupid.

Well trading Richard for a top 2 pitcher was what most people are talking about. Trading him for a bag of used baseballs is obviously a bad idea, but for Peavy or another pitcher of that proven caliber is definitely worth considering. Oh and did I miss something about Colon's pitching this year? Yes, I agree his ERA fails to account for his meltdown in the 20 run game because due to a crappy rule he allowed 7 unearned runs, but over all he's been pretty effective though it would be nice if he managed to pitch deeper into games. That may happen as the season progresses and he gets stretched out and finds his rhythm though, so again, I find your gripes silly...

johnnyg83
05-31-2009, 12:27 AM
I just hate to see a Richard/Poreda package for an NL ace. Santana and Linecum excepted I just don't trust the conversion back into the AL.

I ask this in ignorance, who is the best NL to AL pitcher story?

EDIT: Sabathia doesn't count.

rdivaldi
06-01-2009, 12:50 AM
I ask this in ignorance, who is the best NL to AL pitcher story?

Within the last 20 years I gotta go with Pedro.

Jeckle2000
06-01-2009, 01:24 AM
Put me in the depends on the offer category...

DonnieDarko
06-01-2009, 04:17 AM
From what I understand, Richard was a 1st round draft pick in '06, no? I don't think he was drafted very highly, but...at least he has the potential, it seems, to at least be serviceable. Who knows where he can go from here. For this, I say that you keep him at least the rest of the year, give him some time to show his stuff.

If he succeeds? Awesome. If he fails? Oh well, there's gotta be someone out there that believes they can "fix 'im". :tongue:

This is all assuming that we don't get a #2 starter or something. We get a legit starter like that, we jump all over it.

doublem23
06-01-2009, 06:09 AM
From what I understand, Richard was a 1st round draft pick in '06, no? I don't think he was drafted very highly, but...at least he has the potential, it seems, to at least be serviceable. Who knows where he can go from here. For this, I say that you keep him at least the rest of the year, give him some time to show his stuff.

If he succeeds? Awesome. If he fails? Oh well, there's gotta be someone out there that believes they can "fix 'im". :tongue:

This is all assuming that we don't get a #2 starter or something. We get a legit starter like that, we jump all over it.

No, Richard was an 8th round pick in 2005.

The Sox draft that year...

Round 1 - Lance Broadway, RHP
Round 2 - No pick, lost to Yankees as compensation for FA signing of Orlando Hernandez (Yankees selected James Cox, RHP)
Round 3 - Richard Brooks, RHP
Round 4 - Chris Getz, 2B
Round 5 - Ryan Rote, RHP
Round 6 - Aaron Cunningham, OF
Round 7 - Daniel Cortes, RHP
Round 8 - Clayton Richard, LHP

I'm not a Sox prospect expert, so the rest of the names don't mean too much, the only other intriguing draft pick is Jordan Danks, whom the Sox selected in the 19th round out of Round Rock HS, but didn't sign.

veeter
06-01-2009, 11:01 AM
He wasn't "hot" when the whole Peavy thing went down. He had one good start.

I say trade him, if someone likes him enough. I don't think he's got anything special, other than being a bulldog.I'm in the camp that Clayton Richard is going to be very good. The thought of trading a young lefty with potential, for an injury prone lefty, like Bedard, is stupid.

cws05champ
06-01-2009, 11:02 AM
No, Richard was an 8th round pick in 2005.

The Sox draft that year...

Round 1 - Lance Broadway, RHP
Round 2 - No pick, lost to Yankees as compensation for FA signing of Orlando Hernandez (Yankees selected James Cox, RHP)
Round 3 - Richard Brooks, RHP
Round 4 - Chris Getz, 2B
Round 5 - Ryan Rote, RHP
Round 6 - Aaron Cunningham, OF
Round 7 - Daniel Cortes, RHP
Round 8 - Clayton Richard, LHP

I'm not a Sox prospect expert, so the rest of the names don't mean too much, the only other intriguing draft pick is Jordan Danks, whom the Sox selected in the 19th round out of Round Rock HS, but didn't sign.
Not a bad draft considering the wiff on Broadway. Getting Getz, Cunningham, Cortes and Richard have either helped the team this year or been traded for veteran help...even if that "help" ended up being Macdougal and Richar :(:
Clayton's stats:

2008: In 47.2 IP, 61 H, 32 ER, 5 HR, 13 BB, 29 SO, 6.04 ERA
2009: In 40 IP, 42 H, 15 ER, 4 HR, 15 BB, 30 SO, 3.38 ERA

Thats what I call improvement folks!

He improved every year since being drafted too. I have been high on Richard ever since his big jump in prospect status 2 years ago. If we get a top rotation starter I'm for trading him, but not just to trade him to get value.

doublem23
06-01-2009, 11:23 AM
He improved every year since being drafted too. I have been high on Richard ever since his big jump in prospect status 2 years ago. If we get a top rotation starter I'm for trading him, but not just to trade him to get value.

He was not much of a prospect before last year.

Tragg
06-01-2009, 02:35 PM
He was not much of a prospect before last year.
After 2 whole years in minor league ball. And he soared in terms of his status last year. This team needs more young pitching, not less.

From your list, Cortes and Aaron Cunningham are also highly regarded in the organizations in which they currently reside. That draft looks like it could be fruitful.

RockyMtnSoxFan
06-01-2009, 03:01 PM
Kenny knows what he is doing. He is trading (well Peavy rejected us, so trying to trade) this kid while he is hot. He isn't going to sustain long term success. Now if the perfect time to trade him. The idea he is going to become another ACE is just far fetched. It actually sucks how losely we use the term ACE around here.

So who is wrongly considered an ACE? Would that be Buehrle (6-1, 2.71 ERA, 42:12 K:BB)? Yeah, I guess he's not an ace because he doesn't throw hard enough or get enough strikeouts. Javier Vazquez, now there was an ACE!

PennStater98r
06-01-2009, 04:14 PM
So who is wrongly considered an ACE? Would that be Buehrle (6-1, 2.71 ERA, 42:12 K:BB)? Yeah, I guess he's not an ace because he doesn't throw hard enough or get enough strikeouts. Javier Vazquez, now there was an ACE!

What's your point? It's not as tought getting an Ace would not mean that Buehrle isn't pitching like one right now. It would mean we'd have the potential to have two guys in our rotation that still have Ace stuff. I'd take a #1 guy from just about any ballclub in the league for Richard - and a lot of teams - I'd take their #2 guy. After having as bad an early May as we did - here we are - right back in the thick of things. We need a proven - consistant guy at the top of the rotation to support Buehrle (two stoppers in your rotation is invaluable). The fact of the matter is that we have other young pitchers that we're going to want to keep a hold of in our system - and if we can get a proven talent for one that's still on the rise with a higher risk of failure - I'd say it's worth it.

balke
06-01-2009, 07:06 PM
Kenny is looking forward. Can you really go into next season with Floyd and Colon or Contreras as your Righties? The Sox have 3 good lefties right now, a questionable young righty, and two really old righties.

If you can get a good "ace" righty for Richard, then do it. There's no real debate there. Kenny understands how important a starting rotation is to winning. Immediately, if this team has a stud starter next to Buehrle, they can go a long ways down the stretch. Especially if Danks and Floyd put together strong second halves.

soxfanreggie
06-01-2009, 07:21 PM
I don't think there is a player in the MLB that I wouldn't trade for the right offer. As much as I like Danks, Floyd, and Richard as a pretty good nucleus for the future, if I can turn them into something even better, I would do it.

TheVulture
06-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Kenny knows what he is doing. He is trading (well Peavy rejected us, so trying to trade) this kid while he is hot. He isn't going to sustain long term success. Now if the perfect time to trade him. The idea he is going to become another ACE is just far fetched. It actually sucks how losely we use the term ACE around here.


I think you've got it wrong. KW knows to acquire a Peavy, you've got to give up a lot. He doesn't have a crystal ball - if anything, being included in the trade speaks of Richards value, not an imminent decline. Unless he has a unreported injury problem, no one knows either way, though I agree ace might be a strong term.