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thomas35forever
05-27-2009, 11:13 PM
Repeat after me...we won the series. We won the series.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:14 PM
Bummer.

:gulp:to decent starting times again.

JB98
05-27-2009, 11:15 PM
Weaver owns the Sox. He's 4-0 lifetime, and he's only allowed two runs in 34.2 career innings against our club.

Too bad the Sox couldn't finish the sweep.

kittle42
05-27-2009, 11:15 PM
Bummer.

:gulp:to decent starting times again.

I'd have stayed up another hour for a winner!

Tragg
05-27-2009, 11:15 PM
The bench isn't just for a B team on Sundays.
Pinch hitters!!!!!

drewcifer
05-27-2009, 11:16 PM
1 bad pitch, postgame thread.

Gavin was really good, but he DID let them go. Abreu is a vet and you can't give him the chance.

Having said, it's our super power 1 run offense that cost us a sweep anyway. Jesus, when are we going to learn to hit Weaver?

LoveYourSuit
05-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Repeat after me...we won the series. We won the series.


This is the one time I will agree to this. I hate to say it when we had a chance to sweep, but that's a pretty damn good team and SP we faced.


2 of 3 is more than we all thought.

WhiteSox5187
05-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Honestly I thought there was no was we were going to take two out of three coming into the series, so I'm quite pleased with that outcome. And other than that one bad inning Floyd looked pretty good. So, while I'd really like to start sweeping some series and get a consistent winning streak going, I'm fairly happy with this outcome.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Pathetic offense. All or nothing to the f-ing max. This game sucked all the way through. All we did was get a sac fly where any good arm could have gotten JD with a good throw. Yay.

I don't care about there series, series don't get you to the playoffs. Games do. I'm GLAD they won there series. Tough I really want to stop hearing that excuse after losses. That's 3 in a row the Sox lost in pathetic fashion.

I'm like this after every loss, don't bother going in depth into my post to attack me. Let me vent.

Mod Edit: I won't attack your post, but your violating the rules when you self edit your swear words. Just type the ****ing word and let the ****ing filter do it's ****ing job, please. Sort of like that...

central44
05-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Eh, I remembered Weaver absolutley dominating the Sox last year, so I wasn't really anticipating much tonight. It's never fun to lose but this never felt like a game the Sox "should" win--making the loss much easier to deal with. (As opposed to game 3 of the Bucs series).

SoxFan1979
05-27-2009, 11:17 PM
We won the series now lets go beat up on the slumping Royals. :D:

Rohan
05-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Weaver owns the Sox. He's 4-0 lifetime, and he's only allowed two runs in 34.2 career innings against our club.

Too bad the Sox couldn't finish the sweep.

How about just.. Weaver owns.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:19 PM
CG, 3 ER for Gavin. Really nice to see. Bats didn't help him - but Weaver is a tough cookie.

Bring on Bannister, Meche and Greinke...Why can't we get Hochevar?

Performances like Gavin's today will go a long way. We won't lose too many of them.

thomas35forever
05-27-2009, 11:19 PM
Pathetic offense. All or nothing to the f-ing max. This game sucked all the way through. All we did was get a sac fly where any good arm could have gotten JD with a good throw. Yay.

I don't care about there series, series don't get you to the playoffs. Games do. I'm GLAD they won there series. Tough I really want to stop hearing that excuse after losses. That's 3 in a row the Sox lost in pathetic fashion.

I'm like this after every loss, don't bother going in depth into my post to attack me. Let me vent.
Funny. I didn't know we were on a three-game losing streak.

CLR01
05-27-2009, 11:20 PM
Pathetic offense. All or nothing to the f-ing max. This game sucked all the way through. All we did was get a sac fly where any good arm could have gotten JD with a good throw. Yay.

I don't care about there series, series don't get you to the playoffs. Games do. I'm GLAD they won there series. Tough I really want to stop hearing that excuse after losses. That's 3 in a row the Sox lost in pathetic fashion.

I'm like this after every loss, don't bother going in depth into my post to attack me. Let me vent.


Vent all you want but do it with out evading the language filter. Next time will be a vacation.

Navarro's Talent
05-27-2009, 11:21 PM
Gavin was great. Too bad they couldn't pull out a win tonight.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:21 PM
This game sucked all the way through.

Did you see any of the bottom halves of innings? They didn't suck at all.

I don't care about there series, series don't get you to the playoffs. Games do.

Bull****. Win serieses and you are just fine.

That's 3 in a row the Sox lost in pathetic fashion.

Huh? Do you watch the games?

guillensdisciple
05-27-2009, 11:21 PM
One thing of note: this offense lacks discipline, and swings at pitches that are way out of the zone. I am not going to say fire anyone, but perhaps that has a lot to do with our struggling offense (at times).

palehozenychicty
05-27-2009, 11:22 PM
Well, I knew that we wouldn't sweep. I just don't think we're good enough to do that right now. At least Anaheim isn't a house of horrors anymore.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Pathetic offense. All or nothing to the f-ing max. This game sucked all the way through. All we did was get a sac fly where any good arm could have gotten JD with a good throw. Yay.

I don't care about there series, series don't get you to the playoffs. Games do. I'm GLAD they won there series. Tough I really want to stop hearing that excuse after losses. That's 3 in a row the Sox lost in pathetic fashion.

I'm like this after every loss, don't bother going in depth into my post to attack me. Let me vent.

You realize, that if the Sox win 2 of 3 the rest of the way out, they'd finish with a record of 98-64, which would probably be more than enough to make the play-offs.

Sometimes you just lose in baseball. You need to find a way to deal with it better.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Well, I knew that we wouldn't sweep. I just don't think we're good enough to do that right now. At least Anaheim isn't a house of horrors anymore.

We were good enough. FLoyd lost a CG where he gave up 3 runs. That is good enough to win. The fact that we didn't just was a bad break.

drewcifer
05-27-2009, 11:24 PM
How about just.. Weaver owns.

No.

We need young guys to hit. Look at the box. Same ****. Thome, Dye, Konerko...they hit. They are station to station as we all well know. People around them need to hit, get on base, and run.

Weaver is not Seaver. Ridiculous.

guillensdisciple
05-27-2009, 11:25 PM
CG, 3 ER for Gavin. Really nice to see. Bats didn't help him - but Weaver is a tough cookie.

Bring on Bannister, Meche and Greinke...Why can't we get Hochevar?

Performances like Gavin's today will go a long way. We won't lose too many of them.


I thought Greinke pitched yesterday, does Kansas City play with a 4 man rotation?

hi im skot
05-27-2009, 11:25 PM
I don't care about there series, series don't get you to the playoffs. Games do.




Silly. You win every series of the season, you finish with a championship trophy.

Whappeh
05-27-2009, 11:25 PM
I'm still thinking about Hawk talking about Vlad's sphincter.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:26 PM
No.

We need young guys to hit. Look at the box. Same ****. Thome, Dye, Konerko...they hit. They are station to station as we all well know. People around them need to hit, get on base, and run.

Weaver is not Seaver. Ridiculous.

Do you even know who Jered Weaver is? Save your lamenting for when we get shut down by some AAAA scrub (which I'm sure will happen again, probably many times, this season). Weaver... Actually pretty good.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/weaveje02.shtml

JermaineDye05
05-27-2009, 11:26 PM
Gavin's line over his past 2 starts.

16.0 IP 3 ER 4 BB 16 K 0 HR

Not bad. He's on the right track. We took the series, let's go get the next one.

JB98
05-27-2009, 11:28 PM
Gavin's line over his past 2 starts.

16.0 IP 3 ER 4 BB 16 K 0 HR

Not bad. He's on the right track. We took the series, let's go get the next one.

Yeah, two good outings in a row for Floyd. Real encouraging.

Even though Gavin got outpitched tonight, he gave the bullpen the night off.

palehozenychicty
05-27-2009, 11:29 PM
One thing of note: this offense lacks discipline, and swings at pitches that are way out of the zone. I am not going to say fire anyone, but perhaps that has a lot to do with our struggling offense (at times).


Indeed. We definitely don't take enough pitches. I love AJ's passion, but swinging after two throws in the 7th when your pitcher lost it isn't good baseball. Baserunners, even slow ones, are a premium.

Alexei's three walks were unreal yesterday. I guess Walker scolded him about it.

But take nothing away from Weaver. He's a fine young pitcher, and has been solid so far this year.

drewcifer
05-27-2009, 11:29 PM
Do you even know who Jered Weaver is? Save your lamenting for when we get shut down by some AAAA scrub (which I'm sure will happen again, probably many times, this season). Weaver... Actually pretty good.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/weaveje02.shtml

Don't talk to me that way. I brought up your link, actually. He can be beaten, has been, and could've been tonight, actually. (Game thread mention of our 1st whole ER...look)

Not a big deal, but he's tough to beat. But we could and didn't. Those big ones are important.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:31 PM
I thought Greinke pitched yesterday, does Kansas City play with a 4 man rotation?

They are skipping Hochevar...Without a good #5, they will do that when they can.

JB98
05-27-2009, 11:31 PM
Again, Weaver is 4-0 lifetime with a 0.52 ERA against the Sox.

He just has our number. :dunno:

palehozenychicty
05-27-2009, 11:31 PM
We were good enough. FLoyd lost a CG where he gave up 3 runs. That is good enough to win. The fact that we didn't just was a bad break.


He threw well, but I just don't believe in this offense right now.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:32 PM
Don't talk to me that way. I brought up your link, actually. He can be beaten, has been, and could've been tonight, actually.

Not a big deal, but he's tough to beat. But we could and didn't. Those big ones are important.

What are you talking about? He pitched a great game, sometimes you just tip your hat to a guy when he pitches a gem. Under your logic we could win every game, but sometimes you just don't. It's not nearly as frustrating when the guy who dominates your offense is a vet with a proven, successful track record. When you get shut down by Adam Eaton, by all means, complain away.

At least Floyd looked good again. If he and Danks can find their stuff, we'll be tough to beat.

drewcifer
05-27-2009, 11:37 PM
What are you talking about? He pitched a great game, sometimes you just tip your hat to a guy when he pitches a gem. Under your logic we could win every game, but sometimes you just don't. It's not nearly as frustrating when the guy who dominates your offense is a vet with a proven, successful track record. When you get shut down by Adam Eaton, by all means, complain away.

At least Floyd looked good again. If he and Danks can find their stuff, we'll be tough to beat.

The game. You can PM me if you're confused. We lost on the 0-2 pitch to Abreu.

Happy to go through it with you but not here where you bait and try to piss me off with strawman arguments about Adam Eaton and "sometimes".

Fair? You're calling Jered Weaver a vet, also. :scratch:

Tragg
05-27-2009, 11:40 PM
One thing of note: this offense lacks discipline, and swings at pitches that are way out of the zone. I am not going to say fire anyone, but perhaps that has a lot to do with our struggling offense (at times).
indeed it doesn't.
But this coaching staff does not stress plate disciplline and never has. Ozzie wants his hitters "aggressive". Players with discipline will take their share of called third strikes - that's not a good way to stay on Guillen's good side. Ramirez absolutely needs to learn the strike zone - he could become a real good hitter if he would; but it's not gonna happen from Walker and Guillen.

FWIW the Angels aren't very good at it either.

kittle42
05-27-2009, 11:41 PM
The game. You can PM me if you're confused. We lost on the 0-2 pitch to Abreu.

Happy to go through it with you but not here where you bait and try to piss me off with strawman arguments about Adam Eaton and "sometimes".

Fair? You're calling Jered Weaver a vet, also. :scratch:

He said it's more frustrating, and indeed infuriating, to lose to the Adam Eatons of the world than to lose to Jared Weaver, who isn't Johan Santana by any means, but who has 2 1/2+ solid seasons behind him. That isn't so far-fetched.

Now losing to Jeff Weaver - that's another story!

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:42 PM
He threw well, but I just don't believe in this offense right now.

Did you see Monday and Tuesday?

The offense is ok. Weaver is better than OK. His ERA is 2.36. A great pitcher pitched greatly and beat us today. Floyd is a pretty good pitcher. He pitched pretty good. Had he faced another pretty good pitcher, or even a mediocre pitcher, we'd have won.

The offense got beaten today by one of the best in the AL. Get used to it - that will happen.

palehozenychicty
05-27-2009, 11:44 PM
Did you see Monday and Tuesday?

The offense is ok. Weaver is better than OK. His ERA is 2.36. A great pitcher pitched greatly and beat us today. Floyd is a pretty good pitcher. He pitched pretty good. Had he faced another pretty good pitcher, or even a mediocre pitcher, we'd have won.

The offense got beaten today by one of the best in the AL. Get used to it - that will happen.


I did see Monday and Tuesday. Time will tell if it's the norm or just a blip on the screen.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:45 PM
The game. You can PM me if you're confused. We lost on the 0-2 pitch to Abreu.

Happy to go through it with you but not here where you bait and try to piss me off with strawman arguments about Adam Eaton and "sometimes".

Fair? You're calling Jered Weaver a vet, also. :scratch:

We lost because we didn't score any god damn runs. Even as pathetically craptastic as the Sox offense has been this year, they're still averaging over 4 R/G, so Floyd's performance was more than deserving of a win. If you want to blame the offense for sucking, that's fine, I think it had a lot to do with how well Jered Weaver pitched tonight, but that's based solely on my observations from watching tonight's game.

This was Weaver's 87th career start, so yes, that makes him a veteran MLB pitcher. The Sox have seen him 4 times now, he's not an unknown kid making his first rounds through the MLB, there's plenty of scouting reports and game tape available on him, his success at this level isn't because of some gimmick or because everyone is unfamiliar with his stuff, it's because he's a talented pitcher who really seems to have our number.

drewcifer
05-27-2009, 11:45 PM
He said it's more frustrating, and indeed infuriating, to lose to the Adam Eatons of the world than to lose to Jared Weaver, who isn't Johan Santana by any means, but who has 2 1/2+ solid seasons behind him. That isn't so far-fetched.

Now losing to Jeff Weaver - that's another story!

It's not tonight's story, is it?

Give it up.

DonnieDarko
05-27-2009, 11:46 PM
Someone once told me, great pitching will always beat great hitting. Not saying that we were "great" in hitting, but it was just one of those nights where the starter on the mound simply controlled the game, nothing more.

Tragg
05-27-2009, 11:46 PM
The offense is ok. Weaver is better than OK. His ERA is 2.36. A great pitcher pitched greatly and beat us today.
That's just silly. Weaver "great".
The offense has a good night once in a while, but overall it has struggled.

...
05-27-2009, 11:46 PM
The game. You can PM me if you're confused. We lost on the 0-2 pitch to Abreu.

Happy to go through it with you but not here where you bait and try to piss me off with strawman arguments about Adam Eaton and "sometimes".

Fair? You're calling Jered Weaver a vet, also. :scratch:

Are you two ****ing years old? Jesus Christ.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:48 PM
Did you see Monday and Tuesday?

Even with Monday and Tuesday's "outbursts," this is the 2nd least potent offense in the American League, even more pathetic because our home park's notorious reputation. Thankfully, the Mariners play in gigantic SAFECO Field, otherwise I'm sure we'd be bringing up the cellar.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:49 PM
I did see Monday and Tuesday. Time will tell if it's the norm or just a blip on the screen.

If we scored our average of 4.1 runs per game, we'd have won tonight. Nothing to do with it being a blip or not. Weaver is awfully good.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:49 PM
That's just silly. Weaver "great".


Look at his 2009 season, he's pitching great right now.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=weaveje02&t=p&year=2009

BadBobbyJenks
05-27-2009, 11:49 PM
Anybody watching this Comcast piece on Nancy? Great stuff.

drewcifer
05-27-2009, 11:49 PM
We lost because we didn't score any god damn runs. Even as pathetically craptastic as the Sox offense has been this year, they're still averaging over 4 R/G, so Floyd's performance was more than deserving of a win. If you want to blame the offense for sucking, that's fine, I think it had a lot to do with how well Jered Weaver pitched tonight, but that's based solely on my observations from watching tonight's game.

This was Weaver's 87th career start, so yes, that makes him a veteran MLB pitcher. The Sox have seen him 4 times now, he's not an unknown kid making his first rounds through the MLB, there's plenty of scouting reports and game tape available on him, his success at this level isn't because of some gimmick or because everyone is unfamiliar with his stuff, it's because he's a talented pitcher who really seems to have our number.

LOL @ you. We lost on that 0-2 pitch. And we couldn't score more runs. There is nothing special about Weaver.

It IS because of a gimmick - same bull**** Garcia pulled. He puts down and holds the ball back. Same thing, EXACTLY, but he's younger.

90 mph fastball. A good hammer.

Quit sucking on his junk (NOT INTENDED PROFANELY) because WE tank against him.

We are a misguided hitting team and that is fact.

Gavin pitched really well, made an obvious mistake, but when you pitch for a team that hits like we do, you have to be careful and not give a .351 hitter a chance to **** your game up. HE DID.



Mod Edit: You may not have intended for this to be profane, but it was. Don't do it again.

Tragg
05-27-2009, 11:51 PM
Look at his 2009 season, he's pitching great right now.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=weaveje02&t=p&year=2009
So having a good 2 months (or great 2 months) makes him a "great pitcher"?

Like I said, that's just silly.

Nothing wrong with actually sweeping series....it takes 4 series wins to make up for an o-fer in Toronto.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:53 PM
Even with Monday and Tuesday's "outbursts," this is the 2nd least potent offense in the American League,

And despite that, had we scored our average Dubs, we'd have won today. But we got beat by a great pitcher who pitched great.

Weaver has had 9 starts this season. How many of them did he give up more than 1 run? 4 of them. How many times did he give up more than 4 runs? ZERO.

Today had little to do with our offense.

oeo
05-27-2009, 11:53 PM
Two out of three on the west coast makes me a happy camper. Gavin's last two starts are promising, as well. If we can continue on with good starting pitching, this team will be fine, IMO. That's been my biggest concern.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 11:57 PM
There is nothing special about Weaver.

Seriously? Seriously? Wow...just wow...


WE tank against him.

WE? His ERA is close to 2. He's given up over 4 runs ZERO times this year, and 1 or fewer in 5 of his 9 starts. WE tank against him?

We are a misguided hitting team and that is fact.

That's your opinion, not a fact. "misguided" is not a factual statement, it is an opinion.

doublem23
05-28-2009, 12:00 AM
So having a good 2 months (or great 2 months) makes him a "great pitcher"?

Like I said, that's just silly.

Nothing wrong with actually sweeping series....it takes 4 series wins to make up for an o-fer in Toronto.

Whatever, I'm not going to bother arguing this because it's all opinion anyway, I will close with stating that Weaver's ERA+ this season is 186, tied for second in the American League with Mark Buehrle and only behind Zack Greinke. He's ahead of such standouts like Roy Halladay and C.C. Sabathia.

Over his career, his ERA+ is 127, which would make him tied for 9th among all active pitchers with John Smoltz and Carlos Zambrano, better than such guys as Jake Peavy (120), Danny Haren (120), Josh Becket (115), and Chris Carpenter (113).

hi im skot
05-28-2009, 12:01 AM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/eeatingpopcornvi_gif1184055840-vi.gif


Jeff Weaver's a very good pitcher, and I can't understand why some folks just can't accept that.

Gavin pitched a nice game tonight, but he got into some trouble against some of the Angels' better hitters. The combination of Floyd's rough inning and Weaver's solid performance lead to the loss tonight. It's gonna happen over the course of a 162 game season.

We're all disappointed with the first couple months of the season, but I've liked how the Sox have rebounded after tough losses over the past week or so. If they can take the series in Kansas City, life will be pretty good.

Frankfan4life
05-28-2009, 12:04 AM
The Sox have to figure out a way to beat Weaver. :mad:

In the meantime, I hope they keep on winning series (with an occasional sweep here and there) and I'll be happy. :D:

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:05 AM
LOL @ you. We lost on that 0-2 pitch. And we couldn't score more runs. There is nothing special about Weaver.

It IS because of a gimmick - same bull**** Garcia pulled. He puts down and holds the ball back. Same thing, EXACTLY, but he's younger.

90 mph fastball. A good hammer.

Quit sucking on his junk (NOT INTENDED PROFANELY) because WE tank against him.

We are a misguided hitting team and that is fact.

Gavin pitched really well, made an obvious mistake, but when you pitch for a team that hits like we do, you have to be careful and not give a .351 hitter a chance to **** your game up. HE DID.

Weaver uses a deceptive move where his foot moves toward home and it comes across like he holds the ball, when he really doesn't. He just holds it at a release point that is confusing to batters. He turns away and it's behind his head.

Freddy Garcia used to do the same when he was succesful on the Sox.

That is "junk". When hitters fall for it, they are "suckers". Freddy made hitters late on 89mph fastballs when he was good at it and mixing in off-speed pitches.

All I meant. It's nothing new.

kittle42
05-28-2009, 12:09 AM
It's not tonight's story, is it?

Give it up.

Man, what was it about this particular loss that's got you so riled up? There weren't really blown plays or blown opportunities. This wasn't Sunday against the Pirates. Just a run of the mill loss with no hitting. We've seen them before against worse pitchers and worse teams.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:11 AM
Man, what was it about this particular loss that's got you so riled up? There weren't really blown plays or blown opportunities. This wasn't Sunday against the Pirates. Just a run of the mill loss with no hitting. We've seen them before against worse pitchers and worse teams.

The 0-2 pitch against Abreu with 2 runners on. I saw it as a chance to get behind. That was it. I was hoping for the old-school 0-1 win or some runs in the 8th/9th to help.

kittle42
05-28-2009, 12:11 AM
Nothing wrong with actually sweeping series....it takes 4 series wins to make up for an o-fer in Toronto.

Now this I can agree with. I hate the whole "win the series" stuff. Yes, that is fine if they win EVERY series. But they don't. You have to sweep one here or there to make up for the series losses the team will incur.

esbrechtel
05-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Bummer.

:gulp:to decent starting times again.

Amen!

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:27 AM
Whatever, I'm not going to bother arguing this because it's all opinion anyway, I will close with stating that Weaver's ERA+ this season is 186, tied for second in the American League with Mark Buehrle and only behind Zack Greinke. He's ahead of such standouts like Roy Halladay and C.C. Sabathia.

Over his career, his ERA+ is 127, which would make him tied for 9th among all active pitchers with John Smoltz and Carlos Zambrano, better than such guys as Jake Peavy (120), Danny Haren (120), Josh Becket (115), and Chris Carpenter (113).

This is what I'm talking about:

1. He plays in a 4 team West Division that is a joke. Texas is winning. (first bold)
2. He's behind guys that are in a competitive, non run scoring division. (second bold)
3. See #2 - those guys DO pitch in a run scoring division where hitters live (third bold)

4. His ERA+ ...in his little 4 team division. He fights the A's and Mariners, and you want to bring up these guys - Smoltz, Zambrano, Beckett, et al? :shame:

There is nothing special about Jered Weaver at all.

35th and Shields
05-28-2009, 12:34 AM
Weaver uses a deceptive move where his foot moves toward home and it comes across like he holds the ball, when he really doesn't. He just holds it at a release point that is confusing to batters. He turns away and it's behind his head.

Freddy Garcia used to do the same when he was succesful on the Sox.

That is "junk". When hitters fall for it, they are "suckers". Freddy made hitters late on 89mph fastballs when he was good at it and mixing in off-speed pitches.

All I meant. It's nothing new.

So are saying Garcia was a "junk" pitcher?

I don't get your point. He has a deceptive delivery that hitters (not just the White Sox) can't hit this year. I would call that a very good delivery rather then junk.

Is it not possible that a young pitcher has turned the corner to become a good and maybe someday a great pitcher?

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:47 AM
So are saying Garcia was a "junk" pitcher?

I don't get your point. He has a deceptive delivery that hitters (not just the White Sox) can't hit this year. I would call that a very good delivery rather then junk.

Is it not possible that a young pitcher has turned the corner to become a good and maybe someday a great pitcher?

I'm saying that this "deception" that we are baffled by is the same "junk" that Garcia made himself a name with... briefly. Step, hold.

Big guys can do it, easy. What are physical stats on both? Over 6'3", I'm guessing, without looking it up...

That's it.

JB98
05-28-2009, 12:49 AM
There seem to be a lot of pissed-off posts tonight for a pretty run-of-the-mill loss. :?:

35th and Shields
05-28-2009, 12:52 AM
I'm saying that this "deception" that we are baffled by is the same "junk" that Garcia made himself a name with... briefly. Step, hold.

That's it.

If it were something as easy as you make it sound to do, you would see a lot more guys using it.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:52 AM
There seem to be a lot of pissed-off posts tonight for a pretty run-of-the-mill loss. :?:


Meh, could've been a sweep. My fault for ruining it - I pissed off people (again). Goddamn fans.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:53 AM
If it were something as easy as you make it sound to do, you would see a lot more guys using it.

I do.

doublem23
05-28-2009, 12:56 AM
I'm saying that this "deception" that we are baffled by is the same "junk" that Garcia made himself a name with... briefly. Step, hold.

That's it.

Where does it say that a pitcher must have plus power pitches to be successful? Garcia had a fine career before his arm shredded. Neither Greg Maddux or Mark Buehrle have overpowering "stuff," yet Maddux is recognized as one of the best pitchers in history and Buehrle has had a steady, successful career.

The name of the game is getting outs, regardless of how it is accomplished. Weaver, through the 500+ innings he has pitched in the Majors, has shown the ability to do that. Not everyone is blessed with a 100+ MPH fastball or a devastating 12-6 curveball, and however he's chosen to compensate for the lack of those natural gifts, based on his career results thus far, seems to work more often than it fails.

slavko
05-28-2009, 01:08 AM
The 0-2 pitch against Abreu with 2 runners on. I saw it as a chance to get behind. That was it. I was hoping for the old-school 0-1 win or some runs in the 8th/9th to help.

Threw him a hanging cookie, didn't he? But the 2 hits preceding were well stung, too, even if Alexei should have made a play on one of them. And Alexei's batting revival is real, but he's not what he was last year yet. That 4 hit game was 3 seeing eye grounders and a gork shot over the 1B's head. What the hey, another series win. Got a feeling we're gonna get Greinke this time.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:14 AM
Where does it say that a pitcher must have plus power pitches to be successful? Garcia had a fine career before his arm shredded. Neither Greg Maddux or Mark Buehrle have overpowering "stuff," yet Maddux is recognized as one of the best pitchers in history and Buehrle has had a steady, successful career.

The name of the game is getting outs, regardless of how it is accomplished. Weaver, through the 500+ innings he has pitched in the Majors, has shown the ability to do that. Not everyone is blessed with a 100+ MPH fastball or a devastating 12-6 curveball, and however he's chosen to compensate for the lack of those natural gifts, based on his career results thus far, seems to work more often than it fails.

I don't know...where? Where did I say anything like that? I said put an 0-2 pitch against Abreu in the ****ing dirt.

I didn't read the rest of the 2 paragraphs afterward because it's clear (even after our PMs) that you are not reading my thoughts while I am yours.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:28 AM
Threw him a hanging cookie, didn't he? But the 2 hits preceding were well stung, too, even if Alexei should have made a play on one of them. And Alexei's batting revival is real, but he's not what he was last year yet. That 4 hit game was 3 seeing eye grounders and a gork shot over the 1B's head. What the hey, another series win. Got a feeling we're gonna get Greinke this time.

I might.. Love you.

Seriously - I think the parts are there...just a matter of fitting it all. We could be worse off. I'm giving Gavin ****, but he didn't allow a damn thing for 2 IP after and that is HUGE.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-28-2009, 01:34 AM
While I'm glad we won the series, as three series wins is a huge turnaround from a week or so ago, this loss makes me think we're incapable of sweeping anyone. Just move on to the next series, which would be nice to win with KC ahead. Seems like this team is slowly turning around, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

ms620
05-28-2009, 05:49 AM
This has been said before but I will say it again. How come when our pitchers have a great game it is because he pitched really well but when another team's pitcher has a great game it is because our offense sucks? People need to remember that there are 2 teams on that field. Losses are not always the result of the sox playing poorly...sometimes the other team just plays better. Sox won the series, time to take 2 out of 3 vs. KC. Sweeps are nice, and it would help to overcome the hole the Sox put themselves in, but the goal is to win each series. Sox do that and they win the division by 10 games.

Frater Perdurabo
05-28-2009, 06:31 AM
There seem to be a lot of pissed-off posts tonight for a pretty run-of-the-mill loss. :?:

I never like to lose, but as you've pointed out, Weaver owns the Sox. Also, it's really tough to sweep a team on the road, and it's even tougher to sweep the Angels at the Big A. I guess this one of the 60 that you chalk up to losses. Before July 31, I'll never complain about winning a series. (I have to leave myself room to criticize a manager for mailing in the last game of a series because he's already won the first two, especially in a playoff race.)

Jollyroger2
05-28-2009, 06:56 AM
While I'm glad we won the series, as three series wins is a huge turnaround from a week or so ago, this loss makes me think we're incapable of sweeping anyone. Just move on to the next series, which would be nice to win with KC ahead. Seems like this team is slowly turning around, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

Are they turning it around though? At some point they need to start getting these Ws. They won the series, yeah, just like the last two, but it would be nice to start getting some of these sweeps. They're 6-3 since the long losing streak but are still four games under .500 and 5 1/2 out. Be nice to do well in KC then get a bunch of wins in the upcoming homestand. Otherwise they still look like your classic chasing the .500 mark all year kind of team.

GoSox2K3
05-28-2009, 07:44 AM
There seem to be a lot of pissed-off posts tonight for a pretty run-of-the-mill loss. :?:

It's mostly one person with repeated posts. Take those away and the rest of the thread doesn't look so bad.

cws05champ
05-28-2009, 08:22 AM
Would have been nice to see one of those Saturday afternoon special lineups. Something unconventional that MAY have success against Weaver.

Lets take the next few series against KC, DET, OAK....

beasly213
05-28-2009, 08:42 AM
It's annoying that the Sox didn't sweep but winning three series in a row is good news. This team still has a lot of problems but if they can keep winning despite them theres a good chance they'll be right in the thick of it when and if they turn it around as a team.

asindc
05-28-2009, 08:43 AM
So having a good 2 months (or great 2 months) makes him a "great pitcher"?

Like I said, that's just silly.

Nothing wrong with actually sweeping series....it takes 4 series wins to make up for an o-fer in Toronto.

The point is that Weaver pitches this well against everyone else in the league, so it should not be so upsetting to see our Sox struggle against him.

You are right about there being nothing wrong with sweeping a series (something that has not been done this year yet). However, just as a previous poster noted, if you fail to do so because Adam Eaton shut your offense down that is one thing, but when a top-tier pitcher prevents you from doing so (on the road, mind you), then you tip your cap and move on.

AlleghenySoxFan
05-28-2009, 09:46 AM
It's annoying that the Sox didn't sweep but winning three series in a row is good news. This team still has a lot of problems but if they can keep winning despite them theres a good chance they'll be right in the thick of it when and if they turn it around as a team.

I had to quote you because i couldn't concentrate on your post with that horrible sig:angry::angry::angry::angry:

This division is anyone's to win or lose, no one is much better than anyone else. The only reason KC is still in it is because of Grienke. Detroit's not that much better than us. The Twinkies are the Twinkies and the Indians are terrible.
I am not to concerned about this loss. Gavin pithed well, and we have never been real good against Weaver. Its a good thing we will probably see him only one or two more times this year.

guillensdisciple
05-28-2009, 10:04 AM
It's annoying that the Sox didn't sweep but winning three series in a row is good news. This team still has a lot of problems but if they can keep winning despite them theres a good chance they'll be right in the thick of it when and if they turn it around as a team.

I had to quote you because i couldn't concentrate on your post with that horrible sig:angry::angry::angry::angry:

This division is anyone's to win or lose, no one is much better than anyone else. The only reason KC is still in it is because of Grienke. Detroit's not that much better than us. The Twinkies are the Twinkies and the Indians are terrible.
I am not to concerned about this loss. Gavin pithed well, and we have never been real good against Weaver. Its a good thing we will probably see him only one or two more times this year.


Hahahahahahahaha, I don't really care about the signature, but I knew someone was going to point this out.

Dick Allen
05-28-2009, 10:20 AM
I, for one, am tired of the "well, we won the series" when we could be sweeping. However, winning two of three on the road against the Angels with the three pitchers they threw at us is nothing to complain about. But I'm still really steamed about the Jenks meltdown against the Pirates.:angry:

oeo
05-28-2009, 12:01 PM
Now this I can agree with. I hate the whole "win the series" stuff. Yes, that is fine if they win EVERY series. But they don't. You have to sweep one here or there to make up for the series losses the team will incur.

I will take 2 out of 3 every time on the road, especially on the west coast where we have a history of struggling. Hell, all you need to do is go .500 on the road and take care of business at home to be successful, so all of this series wins hating is a bit over the top.

beasly213
05-28-2009, 12:10 PM
I, for one, am tired of the "well, we won the series" when we could be sweeping. However, winning two of three on the road against the Angels with the three pitchers they threw at us is nothing to complain about. But I'm still really steamed about the Jenks meltdown against the Pirates.:angry:

I was too but afterwords I took a second to step back and realize over the course of a year the closer will blow a few games. Its a long season and it happens.

jabrch
05-28-2009, 12:11 PM
I will take 2 out of 3 every time on the road, especially on the west coast where we have a history of struggling. Hell, all you need to do is go .500 on the road and take care of business at home to be successful, so all of this series wins hating is a bit over the top.


Feels to me like people wanting to seem "Hardcore". It is many of the usual SuperToughGuys who feel like they should pretend to be torn up over each loss and who don't have enough perspective to get the grip on what goes on during each and every baseball season for each and every team. Most of the people who are hating on winning serieses are the same people who would have given this team up for dead a few weeks ago, many of whom still do.

It's just silly.

kittle42
05-28-2009, 12:51 PM
Feels to me like people wanting to seem "Hardcore". It is many of the usual SuperToughGuys who feel like they should pretend to be torn up over each loss and who don't have enough perspective to get the grip on what goes on during each and every baseball season for each and every team. Most of the people who are hating on winning serieses are the same people who would have given this team up for dead a few weeks ago, many of whom still do.

It's just silly.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to sweep here and there. Balances out the series you don't win, because you won't win them all.

That being said, anyone who starts saying that not sweeping = "no killer instinct" and that kind of absolute **** is ridiculous.

jabrch
05-28-2009, 01:32 PM
All I'm saying is it would be nice to sweep here and there. Balances out the series you don't win, because you won't win them all.

That being said, anyone who starts saying that not sweeping = "no killer instinct" and that kind of absolute **** is ridiculous.

I totally agree.

But we went from playing ****asticly poor baseball just a few weeks ago, to now playing pretty darn good ball. Hopefully next in the progression is great ball. Maybe a 7-8 game winning streak or something, with a few sweeps. But I am not going to get all bent out of shape and pound my shoe on the table over losing game 3 in a 3 game set after winning #1 and #2.

oeo
05-28-2009, 02:02 PM
I was too but afterwords I took a second to step back and realize over the course of a year the closer will blow a few games. Its a long season and it happens.

Exactly. We'll steal a couple from their closer, as well.

That game was the definition of fluke, anyway. Bobby does not give up the long ball and did so against their #9 hitter who has very little power.