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DickAllen72
05-27-2009, 04:58 PM
FYI

Future Sox site is reporting Gordon Beckham was pulled from today's game and is supposedly on his way to Charlotte possibly to play tonight. Speculation is he may be playing 3B at Charlotte.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/misc/progress.gif

Craig Grebeck
05-27-2009, 05:07 PM
FYI

Future Sox site is reporting Gordon Beckham was pulled from today's game and is supposedly on his way to Charlotte possibly to play tonight. Speculation is he may be playing 3B at Charlotte.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/misc/progress.gif
I'm sure he'll be playing 3B by June. Hopefully he'll be back in the middle infield in 2010.

gr8mexico
05-27-2009, 05:08 PM
It doesnt look like he will play today for the Knights
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2009_05_27_chraaa_colaaa_1&did=t494&sid=t494

DirtySox
05-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Is their a link somewhere that states this?

DirtySox
05-27-2009, 05:27 PM
http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-sports/2009/05/barons_lose_game_to_braves_top.html

Sockinchisox
05-27-2009, 05:34 PM
Well now I have a reason to look at Charlotte's box score.

DumpJerry
05-27-2009, 05:37 PM
It doesnt look like he will play today for the Knights
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2009_05_27_chraaa_colaaa_1&did=t494&sid=t494
he already played a game for the Barons today. Give him a chance to catch his breath.

october23sp
05-27-2009, 06:01 PM
I'm afraid when he's up here he won't live up to the expectations some posters here have of him.

CLR01
05-27-2009, 06:01 PM
Well now I have a reason to look at Charlotte's box score.

Dewayne Wise isn't a good enough reason for you.

voodoochile
05-27-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm afraid when he's up here he won't live up to the expectations some posters here have of him.

Just curious, based on what? Do you think the expectations are too high or that Beckham won't really amount to much?

35th and Shields
05-27-2009, 06:04 PM
Wow, I'm actually really surprised by this. I didn't think the Sox would be moving some of the top prospects up so quickly. Not only this move but moving Danks from A to AA happened a little quicker then I expected.

...
05-27-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm afraid when he's up here he won't live up to the expectations some posters here have of him.


Ok?

october23sp
05-27-2009, 06:06 PM
Just curious, based on what? Do you think the expectations are too high or that Beckham won't really amount to much?

Absolutely nothing. I'm just saying some people think he'll be a perennial all-star and thats not easy to do. Expectations too high, I don't follow the Minors too much and I couldn't tell you how he's doing right now but the expectations are exteremely high.

DirtySox
05-27-2009, 06:06 PM
Gordon's bat is pretty much ready and he will likely supplant Fields if his suck continues. That being said, the bar isn't set very high. I expect big things from him (in his career) but certainly not immediately.

Craig Grebeck
05-27-2009, 06:19 PM
If Gordon can hit .260/.325/.400 he'll be just fine. That blows Fields out of the water.

DirtySox
05-27-2009, 06:20 PM
Is that his translation? I believe seeing it was somewhere around there.

Craig Grebeck
05-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Is that his translation? I believe seeing it was somewhere around there.
It's close to his MLE, yes. I read that as well.

soxfanreggie
05-27-2009, 06:28 PM
Glad to see him rewarded for his success. I look forward to seeing what he can do at this level.

getonbckthr
05-27-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm afraid when he's up here he won't live up to the expectations some posters here have of him.

Just curious, based on what? Do you think the expectations are too high or that Beckham won't really amount to much?
I don't wanna appear to be putting words in OCT23 mouth but I see what he is saying. We always hear in Chicago (both sides) about these can't miss prospects that are the real deal yet who was the last one to live up to expectations?

Daver
05-27-2009, 06:37 PM
I'm very glad to see that the Sox are continuing the long tradition of rushing players through the system just so they can watch them fail, that philosophy has had a dramatic success rate in the past.

So much for Buddy Bell and his statements on sweeping changes in the organizations approach to developing talent, and here it is, the same old song and dance.

...
05-27-2009, 06:54 PM
I'm very glad to see that the Sox are continuing the long tradition of rushing players through the system just so they can watch them fail, that philosophy has had a dramatic success rate in the past.

So much for Buddy Bell and his statements on sweeping changes in the organizations approach to developing talent, and here it is, the same old song and dance.

Why don't just put this in your signature so we don't have to hear about it every time a player is promoted?

...
05-27-2009, 06:58 PM
I'm very glad to see that the Sox are continuing the long tradition of rushing players through the system just so they can watch them fail, that philosophy has had a dramatic success rate in the past.

So much for Buddy Bell and his statements on sweeping changes in the organizations approach to developing talent, and here it is, the same old song and dance.

And while you're at it, make your pitch to Kenny. There's no way he can ignore your using a past regime's failures as reasoning for the failure of the current.

decolores9628
05-27-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't wanna appear to be putting words in OCT23 mouth but I see what he is saying. We always hear in Chicago (both sides) about these can't miss prospects that are the real deal yet who was the last one to live up to expectations?


Frank?

Robin eventually?

I don't know how C Lee and Maggs were rated as prospects though.

Konerko05
05-27-2009, 07:18 PM
And while you're at it, make your pitch to Kenny. There's no way he can ignore your using a past regime's failures as reasoning for the failure of the current.

You should put that second sentence in your signature as well. I'm not sure why you're so confident you are right in this argument.

They are using mistakes made from past experience to form their arguments. You are only using comments made by the organization, who made all these mistakes in the past, to form your argument.

Everyone should be skeptical until this organization actually proves their comments about "change" to be true. To simply take their word for it after years of failing in the prospect department is foolish.

That said, I don't think the White Sox are rushing Beckham.

canOcorn
05-27-2009, 07:19 PM
Gordon's bat is pretty much ready.

Is it really? It's not like he's tearing up AA. I mean .299/.366/.862 is very solid, but not something that screams promotion. He's done nothing this year that suggests he should be brought to Chicago this season, so I don't see the need to move him to Charlotte because there's no room at 3B in Birmingham.

Daver
05-27-2009, 07:20 PM
And while you're at it, make your pitch to Kenny. There's no way he can ignore your using a past regime's failures as reasoning for the failure of the current.

OK, this made me laugh out loud.

...
05-27-2009, 07:26 PM
OK, this made me laugh out loud.

I am quite the comedian.

...
05-27-2009, 07:29 PM
You should put that second sentence in your signature as well. I'm not sure why you're so confident you are right in this argument.

They are using mistakes made from past experience to form their arguments. You are only using comments made by the organization, who made all these mistakes in the past, to form your argument.

Everyone should be skeptical until this organization actually proves their comments about "change" to be true. To simply take their word for it after years of failing in the prospect department is foolish.

That said, I don't think the White Sox are rushing Beckham.

I never said I was right, just that everyone else is wrong. :cool:

Brian26
05-27-2009, 07:30 PM
I am quite the comedian.

Care to explain which "past regime" you are talking about?

Daver
05-27-2009, 07:31 PM
I am quite the comedian.

Comedian, clown, regardless, you amuse me.

getonbckthr
05-27-2009, 07:39 PM
Frank?

Robin eventually?

I don't know how C Lee and Maggs were rated as prospects though.
Ya sadly that was what 20 yrs ago?

...
05-27-2009, 07:43 PM
Care to explain which "past regime" you are talking about?

Dave Wilder

Sockinchisox
05-27-2009, 07:45 PM
This also might have been done to get Gordon PT at 3rd without the need to bench Viciedo.

...
05-27-2009, 07:46 PM
Comedian, clown, regardless, you amuse me.

This made me laugh.

Daver
05-27-2009, 07:57 PM
This made me laugh.

You're easily amused, it's not always a reflection on intelligence.

...
05-27-2009, 08:03 PM
You're easily amused, it's not always a reflection on intelligence.

Oh the irony.

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-27-2009, 08:26 PM
Oh the irony.

Steak Dinner Boom.

october23sp
05-27-2009, 08:34 PM
I don't wanna appear to be putting words in OCT23 mouth but I see what he is saying. We always hear in Chicago (both sides) about these can't miss prospects that are the real deal yet who was the last one to live up to expectations?

That's about what I'm saying, but I'm not even looking at the past with Beckham, I'm just stating that living up to any kind of hype is hard. Some players live up to it and some don't. I hope to God Beckham is a star but theres a chance he won't be.

Some people say well he'll be at least better than Fields, how do we know that? I'm not saying its bad to be optimistic but to say 100% sure he'll be better than Fields is untrue. 90% chance he will be.:redneck

Daver
05-27-2009, 08:46 PM
Steak Dinner Boom.

It is always nice to see posts that add absolutely nothing to the discussion, and in fact make the poster look like an idiot, it makes you and the person you are quoting that much more obvious as residents of the very shallow end of the gene pool.

...
05-27-2009, 08:47 PM
It is always nice to see posts that add absolutely nothing to the discussion, and in fact make the poster look like an idiot, it makes you and the person you are quoting that much more obvious as residents of the very shallow end of the gene pool.

This made me laugh.

Brian26
05-27-2009, 08:52 PM
And while you're at it, make your pitch to Kenny. There's no way he can ignore your using a past regime's failures as reasoning for the failure of the current.

Care to explain which "past regime" you are talking about?

Dave Wilder

How can Wilder be the "past regime" when the current regime was in place years before Wilder was even hired?

thomas35forever
05-27-2009, 08:57 PM
I'm very glad to see that the Sox are continuing the long tradition of rushing players through the system just so they can watch them fail, that philosophy has had a dramatic success rate in the past.

So much for Buddy Bell and his statements on sweeping changes in the organizations approach to developing talent, and here it is, the same old song and dance.
You simply send Beckham back down if he's not stepping up in AAA. Let's see what comes out of this.

...
05-27-2009, 08:58 PM
How can Wilder be the "past regime" when the current regime was in place years before Wilder was even hired?

Buddy Bell and his Fall of 2008 personnel changes were in place before Dave Wilder was fired in May of 2008?

guillen4life13
05-27-2009, 08:59 PM
Sox Prospects that have developed into quality MLB players--at least for one season-- in recent history (ordered by how recently it happened):

-Floyd (seemed to figure it out with the Sox, at least for one season)
-Danks (originally a TX prospect, but really turned the corner with the Sox)
-Ryan Sweeney (developed here, but immediately thrived in OAK)
-Jenks (LAA prospect but found his niche here)
-Cotts (came from OAK, but found his role with CHW)
-Rauch (found niche in MTL but was a CHW prospect)
-Crede
-Rowand (I present the can of worms. Please don't open it.)
-Garland
-Buehrle
-Lee
-Maggs (original HOU but developed in the CHW system)
-Ray Ray

LoveYourSuit
05-27-2009, 09:13 PM
Sox Prospects that have developed into quality MLB players--at least for one season-- in recent history (ordered by how recently it happened):

-Floyd (seemed to figure it out with the Sox, at least for one season)
-Danks (originally a TX prospect, but really turned the corner with the Sox)
-Ryan Sweeney (developed here, but immediately thrived in OAK)
-Jenks (LAA prospect but found his niche here)
-Cotts (came from OAK, but found his role with CHW)
-Rauch (found niche in MTL but was a CHW prospect)
-Crede
-Rowand (I present the can of worms. Please don't open it.)
-Garland
-Buehrle
-Lee
-Maggs (original HOU but developed in the CHW system)
-Ray Ray

half your list aren't even Sox farmhands. :scratch:

LoveYourSuit
05-27-2009, 09:15 PM
I'm very glad to see that the Sox are continuing the long tradition of rushing players through the system just so they can watch them fail, that philosophy has had a dramatic success rate in the past.

So much for Buddy Bell and his statements on sweeping changes in the organizations approach to developing talent, and here it is, the same old song and dance.


I think Beckham is the exception to your arguement.

The Sox have not had a talent like this in the farm for quite a long time, a talent who doesn't have that many holes in his game.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 09:23 PM
I'm afraid when he's up here he won't live up to the expectations

Just curious, based on what?

Absolutely nothing.

Wow...one of the most honest posters I have ever seen on WSI. Well done 23. Very well done.

Brian26
05-27-2009, 09:29 PM
Buddy Bell and his Fall of 2008 personnel changes were in place before Dave Wilder was fired in May of 2008?

You need to do your homework. The White Sox minor league development flaws date back to before Wilder was hired in 2003.

BadBobbyJenks
05-27-2009, 09:39 PM
Steak Dinner Boom.

Boers and Bernstein? That was a hilarious call.

CashMan
05-27-2009, 09:47 PM
Boers and Bernstein? That was a hilarious call.



Ohhh, that was when a dumb ass Cub caller, called and said isn't it ironic, which made no sense. I get it now!

CashMan
05-27-2009, 09:48 PM
I've said this in another thread, show me a prospect Bell has rushed. Danks? He is 9pts from hitting .400.

canOcorn
05-27-2009, 10:01 PM
I've said this in another thread, show me a prospect Bell has rushed. Danks? He is 9pts from hitting .400.

He's been here, what 18 months? Danks is hitting well in 60 AB's at AA, but his K's are still a worry. That needs to be corrected before another promotion and questionable that he shouldn't have been advanced without cutting it down in A+.

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-27-2009, 10:01 PM
Boers and Bernstein? That was a hilarious call.


Yes that was the context of my post. It had to do with Irony also.

october23sp
05-27-2009, 10:03 PM
Wow...one of the most honest posters I have ever seen on WSI. Well done 23. Very well done.

:redneckThanks, I was just stating he might not live up to expectations by chance, not because of how he has performed in the minors.

russ99
05-27-2009, 10:05 PM
I think if Beckham was up in the big leagues, then you could say he is being rushed. But he played all 4 years of college, got used to the wood bat (he used wood bats in the summer leagues during college) last summer in Class A, and is obviously handling AA pitching.

So why not move him up to AAA. If he can equate his performance against older and more advanced pitchers, then maybe he deserves a shot at the big club later this year. If not, a challenge can be good for some players, especially ones who have had mostly success up to now.

So best case, he's with the Sox this year, worst case he's back in AA the rest of the year.

CashMan
05-27-2009, 10:08 PM
He's been here, what 18 months? Danks is hitting well in 60 AB's at AA, but his K's are still a worry. That needs to be corrected before another promotion and questionable that he shouldn't have been advanced without cutting it down in A+.



I believe he is leading AA in OBP, IIRC.

CashMan
05-27-2009, 10:10 PM
I think if Beckham was up in the big leagues, then you could say he is being rushed. But he played all 4 years of college, got used to the wood bat last summer in Class A, and is obviously handling AA pitching.

So why not move him up to AAA. If he can equate his performance against older and more advanced pitchers, then maybe he deserves a shot at the big club later this year. If not, a challenge can be good for some players, especially ones who have had mostly success up to now.

So best case, he's with the Sox this year, worst case he's back in AA the rest of the year.


Also didn't he play in the summer league, the name of the league escapes me, Tyler Flowers also played in the league, Beckham hit like .400 in that league?

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-27-2009, 10:13 PM
Is it possible that one of reasons for the move is to have Retherford and Viciedo at permanant positions because of the "log jam" in the infield at AA?

canOcorn
05-27-2009, 10:14 PM
I believe he is leading AA in OBP, IIRC.

He's not even leading Birmingham and it's not even close.

CashMan
05-27-2009, 10:15 PM
He's not even leading Birmingham and it's not even close.


I was talking Danks OBP .456, leading the Barrons.

canOcorn
05-27-2009, 10:16 PM
Is it possible that one of reasons for the move is to have Retherford and Viciedo at permanant positions because of the "log jam" in the infield at AA?

It would be a complete stunner if either of those guys ever played an inning at 3B for the Chicago White Sox.

canOcorn
05-27-2009, 10:21 PM
I was talking Danks OBP .456, leading the Barrons.

Got ya!

I want to see more than 65 AB's. He misses a ton of pitches. He's got the speed and defense, but I'm worried that he's being rushed because it's BA or nothing.

DirtySox
05-27-2009, 11:11 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=4348

Blurbage.

tm1119
05-27-2009, 11:24 PM
This really isnt that big of a deal. Look at the past drafts and you will see that it is not out of the ordinary for highly touted college players to get called up early.

Price, Weiters, Porcello(he was out of HS), Longoria, Lincecum, Morrow, Braun, Gordon, Zimmerman, Tulowitzki, Ryan Perry(selected the same year as Beckham)

All of these guys were brought up within 2 years of their draft time. And thats a pretty damn good list of players. If Beckham continues to hit in AAA then I see no reason why he cant play in Chicago soon.

...
05-27-2009, 11:36 PM
You need to do your homework. The White Sox minor league development flaws date back to before Wilder was hired in 2003.

It was actually 2004 but whatever. The changes made by Bell far surpass anything Wilder ever did to change the organization's development philosophy.

If you want to cry and join the bandwagon, go ahead. Every organization has failed at developing talent at some point. In my opinion, this organization is headed in a very positive direction in terms of player development and my feelings are shared by the few contacts I actually have within the Sox minor league system.

Tragg
05-27-2009, 11:38 PM
Sox Prospects that have developed into quality MLB players--at least for one season-- in recent history (ordered by how recently it happened):


Frank Francisco....Texas Rangers Closer

doublem23
05-28-2009, 12:13 AM
If you want to cry and join the bandwagon, go ahead. Every organization has failed at developing talent at some point. In my opinion, this organization is headed in a very positive direction in terms of player development and my feelings are shared by the few contacts I actually have within the Sox minor league system.

I certainly hope people in the Sox minor league system think they're developing talent properly.

I'm excited about the talent the Sox have accumulated, but I was also excited in 2000, when we had the #1 rated farm system in all of baseball, and all that produced was a CF (Rowand), 3B (Crede), AAAA OF (Borchard), mediocre SP (Garland), and underwhelming SP turned decent RP (Rauch). Has there been a team in the last 20 years that has produced as little talent as the Sox have? Buehrle, Maggs, and Caballo are the only successful products of the Sox's minor league system from the 1990s that I can think of. That's a pretty lean haul.

We'll see. I have hopes for Beckham, but after that... Eh.

oeo
05-28-2009, 12:23 AM
If you want to cry and join the bandwagon, go ahead.

The only one doing anything remotely close to crying is yourself. :shrug:

PalehosePlanet
05-28-2009, 12:26 AM
Sox Prospects that have developed into quality MLB players--at least for one season-- in recent history (ordered by how recently it happened):

-Floyd (seemed to figure it out with the Sox, at least for one season)
-Danks (originally a TX prospect, but really turned the corner with the Sox)
-Ryan Sweeney (developed here, but immediately thrived in OAK)
-Jenks (LAA prospect but found his niche here)
-Cotts (came from OAK, but found his role with CHW)
-Rauch (found niche in MTL but was a CHW prospect)
-Crede
-Rowand (I present the can of worms. Please don't open it.)
-Garland
-Buehrle
-Lee
-Maggs (original HOU but developed in the CHW system)
-Ray Ray

Magglio was signed by the White Sox and all of his minor league stats are with Sox affiliates. Where did you get the idea that he was originally a Houston product?

Also Ryan Sweeney is not "thriving" in Oakland.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 12:59 AM
Also Ryan Sweeney is not "thriving" in Oakland.

Ryan Sweeney has turned out to be the arguably best defensive CF in baseball and definitely in the AL.

We traded the wrong ****ing guy - do you have cable? On this site, people will argue, but people who follow him (and have cable) know.

Konerko05
05-28-2009, 01:02 AM
Ryan Sweeney has turned out to be the arguably best defensive CF in baseball and definitely in the AL.

Huh?

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:07 AM
lmgtfy.com

Look up Ryan Sweeney, 09. Or ESPN, he has like 2 webgems saving 5+ runs.

Or we can go with your helpful "huh?", like I'm obligated to do anything more than this post.

Or, best of all - do your own work.

doublem23
05-28-2009, 01:07 AM
Ryan Sweeney has turned out to be the arguably best defensive CF in baseball and definitely in the AL.

We traded the wrong ****ing guy - do you have cable? On this site, people will argue, but people who follow him (and have cable) know.

Since arriving in Oakland, Sweeney has spent only 52% of his defensive innings in CF.

He's not even a natural CF. The only reason he'd be playing CF for us is because he's still young enough to cover the Cell's small OF.

Craig Grebeck
05-28-2009, 01:09 AM
lmgtfy.com

Look up Ryan Sweeney, 09. Or ESPN, he has like 2 webgems saving 5+ runs.

Or we can go with your helpful "huh?", like I'm obligated to do anything more than this post.

Or, best of all - do your own work.

That's your evidence? Ha!

Konerko05
05-28-2009, 01:10 AM
lmgtfy.com

Look up Ryan Sweeney, 09. Or ESPN, he has like 2 webgems saving 5+ runs.

Or we can go with your helpful "huh?", like I'm obligated to do anything more than this post.

Or, best of all - do your own work.

Yeah if he has two Web Gems, he is obviously the best defensive CF in baseball.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:34 AM
Yeah if he has two Web Gems, he is obviously the best defensive CF in baseball.

Gimme your best AL CF right now.

Craig Grebeck
05-28-2009, 01:36 AM
Gimme your best AL CF right now.
Crisp, Gutierrez, Granderson, Upton, etc.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:38 AM
Crisp, Gutierrez, Granderson, Upton, etc.

I didn't ask you and I was talking defensive win shares... I know you are looking at the same **** as me so quit your act...

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:45 AM
I didn't ask you and I was talking defensive win shares... I know you are looking at the same **** as me so quit your act...

Well??

We ****ed up. That's all there is to say. He's hitting better than 3 of the guys you offered to boot.

drewcifer
05-28-2009, 01:49 AM
Well - it's late and I'm off 2 Hawaii for 2 weeks in the morning.

Aloha, all!!!!

Craig Grebeck
05-28-2009, 01:59 AM
I didn't ask you and I was talking defensive win shares... I know you are looking at the same **** as me so quit your act...
There's no need for me to participate in this discussion any longer.

Konerko05
05-28-2009, 02:23 AM
Gimme your best AL CF right now.

Grebeck already listed four CFers better than Sweeney defensively in the AL. I'll also add Grady Sizemore, Brian Anderson, Adam Jones and Carlos Gomez.

The point is, he's not even close to being the best CFer in baseball. He's average defensively.

Frater Perdurabo
05-28-2009, 06:39 AM
I have a "devil's advocate" question:

What skills does Beckham still need to learn before he can be a successful MLB player?

It seems he's already capable of fielding his college position - SS - but the Sox may want him to pick up more innings at 3B and 2B. The only other thing he hasn't done is learn to hit major league pitching, and make adjustments to major league pitchers' adjustments. But you don't learn that by playing in the minors. So, maybe we should look at his promotion to Charlotte as an opportunity to get more innings at 3B, where the Sox need more help than at SS right now?

spawn
05-28-2009, 07:06 AM
Gimme your best AL CF right now.

Crisp, Gutierrez, Granderson, Upton, etc.

Grebeck already listed four CFers better than Sweeney defensively in the AL. I'll also add Grady Sizemore, Brian Anderson, Adam Jones and Carlos Gomez.

Let's not forget Torii Hunter.

Ryan Sweeney is the best defensive CF in baseball? Are you ****ing kidding? :screwloose:


Methinks someone started their vacation a little early...

...
05-28-2009, 09:16 AM
The only one doing anything remotely close to crying is yourself. :shrug:

I'm not the one complaining about promoting players who are playing well. :shrug:

GAsoxfan
05-28-2009, 09:19 AM
The truth is that none of us will know if Beckham's being rushed until we see how he performs in AAA. If he continues to excel, then he was ready for the promotion. If he struggles, then maybe they pushed him too quickly.

Craig Grebeck
05-28-2009, 10:02 AM
I have a "devil's advocate" question:

What skills does Beckham still need to learn before he can be a successful MLB player?

It seems he's already capable of fielding his college position - SS - but the Sox may want him to pick up more innings at 3B and 2B. The only other thing he hasn't done is learn to hit major league pitching, and make adjustments to major league pitchers' adjustments. But you don't learn that by playing in the minors. So, maybe we should look at his promotion to Charlotte as an opportunity to get more innings at 3B, where the Sox need more help than at SS right now?
He's going to be in the majors by June. He'll be fine.

asindc
05-28-2009, 10:53 AM
Let's not forget Torii Hunter.

Ryan Sweeney is the best defensive CF in baseball? Are you ****ing kidding? :screwloose:


Methinks someone started their vacation a little early...

Or at least NEEDED to start the vacation early. Ryan Sweeney is the best defensive CF in baseball... and Paul Konerko is the best base runner in the AL. [Believe me, no teal is needed here.]

oeo
05-28-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm not the one complaining about promoting players who are playing well. :shrug:

Once again, you're confused. You are the only one complaining. People voiced their concerns because of past problems. Now you're bitching because the Sox minor league system has been questioned because you know a couple of guys. :whiner:

EMachine10
05-28-2009, 11:40 AM
1-3 with a double thus far.

Brent I'm not so Lil'ibridge hit a 3 run homer

Contreras also has not allowed a hit through 4 innings, with 1 walk and 5 k's

JermaineDye05
05-28-2009, 12:29 PM
1-3 with a double thus far.

Brent I'm not so Lil'ibridge hit a 3 run homer

Contreras also has not allowed a hit through 4 innings, with 1 walk and 5 k's

Beckham is a beast, it seems like all his hits are for extra bases or are with people on base.

Brent Littlebitch, I mean Lillibridge has pop? He needs to hit it on the ground more, seriously.

voodoochile
05-28-2009, 12:51 PM
Beckham is a beast, it seems like all his hits are for extra bases or are with people on base.

Brent Littlebitch, I mean Lillibridge has pop? He needs to hit it on the ground more, seriously.

It's only 325 down each line. CF is 400, but it's a small ballpark in general.

JermaineDye05
05-28-2009, 12:56 PM
It's only 325 down each line. CF is 400, but it's a small ballpark in general.

Ah, I guess it all evens out. Gordon goes from a pitchers park (at least this is what I've read) to a launching pad in Charlotte. Hope he enjoys hitting in the cell.

soltrain21
05-28-2009, 01:35 PM
Beckham is a beast, it seems like all his hits are for extra bases or are with people on base.

Brent Littlebitch, I mean Lillibridge has pop? He needs to hit it on the ground more, seriously.


What the hell is this? That is very dumb.

oeo
05-28-2009, 01:55 PM
What the hell is this? That is very dumb.

Indeed. Brent is not very good, but I don't remember him whining or complaining. Actually, did he even say anything in his time here?

I hope someone can get to him in Charlotte because he could be a pretty good speedster if he changed his approach. If Bobby Cox and Ozzie couldn't do it, I have no hope, however.

eriqjaffe
05-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Lillibridge has popThat's mostly because bartenders refuse to serve him.

JermaineDye05
05-28-2009, 02:20 PM
Indeed. Brent is not very good, but I don't remember him whining or complaining. Actually, did he even say anything in his time here?

I hope someone can get to him in Charlotte because he could be a pretty good speedster if he changed his approach. If Bobby Cox and Ozzie couldn't do it, I have no hope, however.

No knock on Lilli, I was just trying to be funny and failed epically.

I actually was rooting for him, disappointed he couldn't hit. If he could have hit in the .260's I would have been more than happy. He needs to learn to hit the ball on the ground, all his speed goes to waste if he's hitting them in the air. He's basically Willie Mays Hayes from the first Major League.

...
05-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Once again, you're confused. You are the only one complaining. People voiced their concerns because of past problems. Now you're bitching because the Sox minor league system has been questioned because you know a couple of guys. :whiner:

All I am guilty of is defending Buddy Bell and associates suggesting that people give him a chance to prove he can turn this thing around before tossing him in the fire. Seems he is burning as we speak.

gr8mexico
05-28-2009, 07:33 PM
he already played a game for the Barons today. Give him a chance to catch his breath.
Well if you had read the orginal post. He suggest that he might play that night.

Frater Perdurabo
05-28-2009, 10:37 PM
He's going to be in the majors by June. He'll be fine.

That's fine with me.

cws05champ
05-29-2009, 07:16 AM
Beckham went 1-4 last night with a double. Not quite the same lineup he had in B-ham, with Lillibridge in front of him and Wise hittiing behind him.

DirtySox
05-29-2009, 02:26 PM
Some Beckham questions fielded in today's BA chat:


Jeremy (Chicago): Are the White Sox rushing Beckham? Sure Josh Fields is playing himself out of the majors, but might the on the horizon promotion be a little premature? Reassure me please.

Ben Badler: He mashed in college, he was a consensus top bat last year in the draft, he mashed in the AFL and he's mashed in Double-A. We're not dealing with enormous sample sizes, but I don't think he's being rushed.



mike (florida): if both stay at 2b longterm... g. beckham or jemile weeks? is the gap huge between their upside in terms of all around player?

Ben Badler: Beckham, and I think there is a significant gap. Weeks hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, either last year or this year, while Beckham looks like he could play either second base or third base and be one of the best hitters in baseball.

johnnyg83
05-29-2009, 06:30 PM
Wow. That last answer is a bold statement.

DirtySox
05-30-2009, 09:07 PM
Beckham 1-4 with a double tonight. No trouble at 3rd base either.

CashMan
05-31-2009, 05:45 PM
I just check the Knights website, Beckham is hitting .364.

DirtySox
05-31-2009, 05:50 PM
He has only had 12 AB in AAA, but he seems to be doing fine. As we speak Charlotte is facing Bonderman on a rehab assignment. Beckham 1 for 1 with a single and a SB thus far.

DirtySox
05-31-2009, 07:47 PM
Finished up 3-4 with a SB and a throwing error. He had 3 of the Knights 7 hits. Charlotte is bad.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=g_box&gid=2009_05_31_chraaa_tolaaa_1

cws05champ
05-31-2009, 08:45 PM
Finished up 3-4 with a SB and a throwing error. He had 3 of the Knights 7 hits. Charlotte is bad.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=g_box&gid=2009_05_31_chraaa_tolaaa_1

Impressive, especially against someone he'll be facing in the bigs soon...Bonderman. Now hitting .467 at Charlotte.

CashMan
05-31-2009, 09:11 PM
Impressive, especially against someone he'll be facing in the bigs soon...Bonderman. Now hitting .467 at Charlotte.



Well, if Fields doesn't get rid of the Jerry Owens disease, then Beckham might be the 3B post All-Star break?

oeo
06-01-2009, 01:15 AM
Well, if Fields doesn't get rid of the Jerry Owens disease, then Beckham might be the 3B post All-Star break?

Fields is 11 for his last 30, driving in some big runs to boot. He looks a lot more like the Fields we saw in Spring Training and the first couple weeks of the season. :shrug:

JermaineDye05
06-01-2009, 01:32 AM
Fields is 11 for his last 30, driving in some big runs to boot. He looks a lot more like the Fields we saw in Spring Training and the first couple weeks of the season. :shrug:

True, but if Beckham is hitting the daylights out of the ball he may force the Sox to call him up. Now, 3 games doesn't count as hitting the daylights out of the ball. However if after about a week, or 2 maybe 10-15 games and he's still hitting well then the Sox pretty much have no choice but to give him a look.

oeo
06-01-2009, 01:46 AM
True, but if Beckham is hitting the daylights out of the ball he may force the Sox to call him up. Now, 3 games doesn't count as hitting the daylights out of the ball. However if after about a week, or 2 maybe 10-15 games and he's still hitting well then the Sox pretty much have no choice but to give him a look.

Not if there's no where for him to play. Fields is starting to look like he did all of March and early April. What do you do with that? Throw it to the side? There's no guarantee Beckham is going to be a better defender, either.

I don't think we should see Beckham until we need to see Beckham. It appears Fields and Getz are headed in the right direction.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2009, 06:28 AM
Not if there's no where for him to play. Fields is starting to look like he did all of March and early April. What do you do with that? Throw it to the side? There's no guarantee Beckham is going to be a better defender, either.

Nothing is ever guaranteed, true. But I would place a substantial wager on Beckham being better defensively than Fields.

jabrch
06-01-2009, 07:55 AM
I don't think we should see Beckham until we need to see Beckham. It appears Fields and Getz are headed in the right direction.

I agree 100%. I really want to see this group of prospects given a full chance. BA, Josh, Getz, etc. Let's see how they do over time. That doesn't mean play every day...but that does mean that you don't need to rush a prospect up here.

This team is playing good ball with the lineup as is. Let TCQs PF heal. Don't rush Beckham. Then figure out what we need to do.

Between Fields, Getz and Nix, that's nice coverage for 2B/3B. Alexei may be past his April struggles. The club looks pretty damn good.

oeo
06-01-2009, 01:10 PM
Nothing is ever guaranteed, true. But I would place a substantial wager on Beckham being better defensively than Fields.

Beckham has had a tough time defensively this year, so I would take that wager.

Obviously, eventually we have to make room for him. As long as Fields and Getz are getting the job done, this year isn't the time to do it. Find out what we have in those two guys, and then make the decision on their future at the end of the year. Beckham is a nice security blanket, let's keep him as that right now.

JohnTucker0814
06-01-2009, 01:17 PM
Beckhams fielding this year:

AA:
SS - 31 games - 6 errors
2B - 4 games - 1 error
3B - 2 games - o errors

AAA:
3B - 3 games - 1 error
SS - 1 game - 1 error

Let's give him a chance to settle into a position. Ideally, I think he needs to stay as a middle infielder if he is going to be valuable to this club.

Sockinchisox
06-01-2009, 06:54 PM
2-2 today with 2 R, 2 RBI, a 2B and a bunt single.

dagame2005
06-01-2009, 07:08 PM
2-2 today with 2 R, 2 RBI, a 2B and a bunt single.

I am willing to wait until he's ready, but I can't wait to see him in a White Sox uniform!

BadBobbyJenks
06-01-2009, 07:10 PM
Honestly, is anyone unsure if Beckham will be better than Getz?

doublem23
06-01-2009, 07:21 PM
Honestly, is anyone unsure if Beckham will be better than Getz?

Yes.

DirtySox
06-01-2009, 07:53 PM
Honestly, is anyone unsure if Beckham will be better than Getz?

Nope.

Sockinchisox
06-01-2009, 09:01 PM
Beckham with another hit and another run.

DirtySox
06-01-2009, 09:51 PM
Finished 3 - 5 2B, 2 RBI's.

DirtySox
06-02-2009, 08:56 PM
Beckham: 1-4 with a double.

sox1970
06-02-2009, 09:59 PM
Beckham: 1-4 with a double.

And a throwing error.

tm1119
06-02-2009, 11:41 PM
So how long can we afford to keep this kid in AAA? Both 2B and 3B are killing this team right now and Beckham continues to hit whatever is thrown at him.

I honestly dont buy into the whole "rushed" argument. Maybe the reason our prospects have failed in the past is because they really werent that good? BA, Gload, Borchard, Fields? None were even close to the level of prospect that Beckham is considered. Its really unfair to even put him in the same category as the rest.

oeo
06-02-2009, 11:45 PM
So how long can we afford to keep this kid in AAA? Both 2B and 3B are killing this team right now...

Three weeks ago you could make that statement; today, not so much. Both Fields and Getz are swinging the bats a lot better right now.

tm1119
06-03-2009, 01:16 AM
Three weeks ago you could make that statement; today, not so much. Both Fields and Getz are swinging the bats a lot better right now.

They have a combined 4 extra base hits in the teams last 10 games. Thats only 4 doubles in a combined 68 AB's. If this is their version of playing well then thats really not good. Pitchers have nothing to fear in the bottom half of our order what-so-ever. AJ, Fields, Anderson, Getz is pretty pathetic. We need another bat down there that can drive in runs desperately.

LoveYourSuit
06-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Three weeks ago you could make that statement; today, not so much. Both Fields and Getz are swinging the bats a lot better right now.


I will give Getz a pass, although his loopy swing is starting to drive me nuts.

Fields gives you way too many ****ty ABs just like Anderson did in 2006. He can't hit a fastball, and that's very sad.


Beckham will be a huge jolt to this offense, something I think we really need right now to take the next step.

As for the glove? Fields is not making anyone forget about Brooks Robinson.

jabrch
06-03-2009, 01:08 PM
They have a combined 4 extra base hits in the teams last 10 games. Thats only 4 doubles in a combined 68 AB's. If this is their version of playing well then thats really not good.

So playing good is measured by the single metric of XBH...

Is an IF playing good?
Top 5 Answers on the board - I have XBH - Survey Says?
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/vwgeist/red_x_mark.jpg

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:30 PM
I will give Getz a pass, although his loopy swing is starting to drive me nuts.

Fields gives you way too many ****ty ABs just like Anderson did in 2006. He can't hit a fastball, and that's very sad.

Considering Fields sees more pitches than Getz, I question your judgment.

As for the glove? Fields is not making anyone forget about Brooks Robinson.Why not let Beckham work on his glove? Instead of bringing him up to play a position he is not at all comfortable with.

CashMan
06-03-2009, 01:48 PM
Considering Fields sees more pitches than Getz, I question your judgment.

Why not let Beckham work on his glove? Instead of bringing him up to play a position he is not at all comfortable with.



I think Getz is a keeper. I think there is wayyyy tooo much pressure on a rookie, asking him to lead off.

oeo
06-03-2009, 01:52 PM
I think Getz is a keeper. I think there is wayyyy tooo much pressure on a rookie, asking him to lead off.

I never said a bad thing about Getz, but I don't think batting leadoff was the case at all. They adjusted to Getz and started to bust him inside. He's just realizing how quickly and often adjustments need to be made at the major league level.

I think both will be hitting over .260 by the end of the month.

LoveYourSuit
06-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Considering Fields sees more pitches than Getz, I question your judgment.

Why not let Beckham work on his glove? Instead of bringing him up to play a position he is not at all comfortable with.

Question my judgment?

Fields

53/168 Strike outs to ABs That's 31% of the time. God awful at any level.


Getz

17/137 --- that's 12%.


So just because Fields "is looking at more pitches" with the same ****ty result of strking out, that doesn't mean he is helping the team.

oeo
06-03-2009, 02:38 PM
Question my judgment?

Fields

53/168 Strike outs to ABs That's 31% of the time. God awful at any level.


Getz

17/137 --- that's 12%.


So just because Fields "is looking at more pitches" with the same ****ty result of strking out, that doesn't mean he is helping the team.

This is a terrible argument. So now not K'ing means your helping the team? Not K'ing means a good AB? They've both been making outs, and outs are outs.

Is this seriously your barometer for how much a guy is helping the team? How about seeing more pitches? Driving in more runs? Who struck out and did not? Seriously?

CashMan
06-03-2009, 02:41 PM
This is a terrible argument. So now not K'ing means your helping the team? Not K'ing means a good AB? They're both making outs, and outs are outs.


K'ing means you're not putting the ball in play, not K'ing mean you are atleast putting the ball in play, possibly helping your team by moving a running over, ect.

CashMan
06-03-2009, 02:42 PM
I never said a bad thing about Getz, but I don't think batting leadoff was the case at all.



I was agreeing with you.

oeo
06-03-2009, 02:46 PM
K'ing means your not putting the ball in play, not K'ing mean you are atleast putting the ball in play, possibly helping your team by moving a running over, ect.

Ughh...I know that. How is that a measurement of how much your helping the team? Actually driving in runs would be a much better, and accurate way of measurement. I could see if Getz was doing some amazing job with this, but he's not, unfortunately.

Besides, my point was, how is Fields having more ****ty AB's when he sees more pitches? Just because he strikes out, while Getz flies out?

CashMan
06-03-2009, 02:52 PM
Ughh...I know that. How is that a measurement of how much your helping the team? Actually driving in runs would be a much better, and accurate way of measurement. I could see if Getz was doing some amazing job with this, but he's not, unfortunately.




I don't know if it is a direct measurement. But I would believe someone with less K's, has a better eye. I don't think driving in runs would be. Josh is a power hitter, his job is to drive in runs, Getz seems more of a get on base/move people over kinda player. The only person to drive in when hitting leadoff is yourself, so I do not think runs has anything to do with it.

oeo
06-03-2009, 03:01 PM
I don't know if it is a direct measurement. But I would believe someone with less K's, has a better eye.

Have you been watching Fields? Swinging at bad pitches has not been the problem. Missing good pitches, has been.

We're talking about having good AB's, anyway. How can you say Getz is having better AB's because he may have gotten a runner over (which he hasn't done very much of)? Since they've both made unproductive outs, wouldn't Fields having seen more pitches be having better AB's? Making an out early in the count is not having a good AB.

I don't think driving in runs would be. Josh is a power hitter, his job is to drive in runs, Getz seems more of a get on base/move people over kinda player.In terms of it being an accurate measurement, RBI's would be. It is hard to measure what you say Getz does. The only way to do so is to see it with your own eyes, and personally, I don't think Getz has been doing a real good job of it.

canOcorn
06-03-2009, 03:01 PM
I think both will be hitting over .260 by the end of the month.

Fields has hit over .260 (.265) in a month exactly one time in his career. Now he's going to bat .300 during June in his approximately 80 AB's (assuming he keeps his playing time)?

CashMan
06-03-2009, 03:13 PM
Have you been watching Fields? Swinging at bad pitches has not been the problem. Missing good pitches, has been.

We're talking about having good AB's, anyway. How can you say Getz is having better AB's because he may have gotten a runner over (which he hasn't done very much of)? Since they've both made unproductive outs, wouldn't Fields having seen more pitches be having better AB's? Making an out early in the count is not having a good AB.

In terms of it being an accurate measurement, RBI's would be. It is hard to measure what you say Getz does. The only way to do so is to see it with your own eyes, and personally, I don't think Getz has been doing a real good job of it.


I've been watching Fields, and it seems to be every strikeout he is swinging for the fences. As for unproductive out, I would rather have someone put the ball in play, rather than K'ing. Atleast you have a chance of running it out or someone making an error. You cannot compare RBI's, I do not think it is a fair category to compare them in. Fields is not a rookie, he shouls be able to hit MLB pitching, Getz is a rookie, I have no problem going through his slumps.

munchman33
06-03-2009, 03:28 PM
But I would believe someone with less K's, has a better eye.

Adam Dunn disagrees with you.

And that relationship is false. More walks means a better eye. Plenty of strikeouts occur within the strikezone, lots with swings. Walks only occur outside of it.

LoveYourSuit
06-03-2009, 03:37 PM
In terms of it being an accurate measurement, RBI's would be.


So your arguement is that Fields should be measured by power numbers, right?

Then 2 HRs and 20 RBIs isn't cutting it. He sucks.

CashMan
06-03-2009, 04:02 PM
Adam Dunn disagrees with you.

And that relationship is false. More walks means a better eye. Plenty of strikeouts occur within the strikezone, lots with swings. Walks only occur outside of it.


Like I said, I would rather have someone put the ball in play and make an out than strikeout, Adam Dunn K's like 200 times a year(over exaggeration) walks like 90-100 times and hits 230-240ish.

Big D
06-03-2009, 04:33 PM
Like I said, I would rather have someone put the ball in play and make an out than strikeout, Adam Dunn K's like 200 times a year(over exaggeration) walks like 90-100 times and hits 230-240ish.

Fields's strikeout-to walk ratio right now is a little under 4:1. By comparison, Dunn's is a little under 1.5:1 (which is why he's still a productive player despite the strikeouts). 4:1 isn't going to get it done unless you hit for a high average, and Fields doesn't. And we all know it isn't his defense that's keeping him on the field.

DSpivack
06-03-2009, 04:42 PM
Like I said, I would rather have someone put the ball in play and make an out than strikeout, Adam Dunn K's like 200 times a year(over exaggeration) walks like 90-100 times and hits 230-240ish.

He walks at least 100 times/year. He led the NL last year with 122. He gets on base at a 38% clip. Jim Thome, at this point in his career, is a pretty similar hitter.

BadBobbyJenks
06-03-2009, 06:27 PM
I will never understand people who dont like Adam Dunn. He is an on base monster who is going to hit 40 home runs take 100 walks and drive in 100 every year.

But he strikes out a lot!!!

DirtySox
06-03-2009, 06:31 PM
I will never understand people who dont like Adam Dunn. He is an on base monster who is going to hit 40 home runs take 100 walks and drive in 100 every year.

But he strikes out a lot!!!

Agreed. I don't understand why anyone would turn down that kind of production. The K/BB Ratio is perfectly acceptable if you are a power hitter who mashes. Tyler Flowers looks to be in this mold as well.

Big D
06-03-2009, 06:34 PM
I will never understand people who dont like Adam Dunn. He is an on base monster who is going to hit 40 home runs take 100 walks and drive in 100 every year.

But he strikes out a lot!!!

I'd sure take him on my team. Of course, I'd rather have him as a DH. The one legitimate knock on him is his defense. They criticized him in Cincinnati last year for not driving in enough runs, but it's hard to drive in a lot of runs when you've got Corey Patterson and his .250 OBP hitting leadoff.

...
06-03-2009, 07:50 PM
Tonight Beckham is 2-2 with a 2B this far...

sox1970
06-03-2009, 08:03 PM
3-3, 2 doubles.

Get him up here.

DirtySox
06-03-2009, 08:06 PM
Get him up here before the depressing stench of our AAA team leeches onto him!

CashMan
06-03-2009, 08:31 PM
get him up here before the depressing stench of our aaa team leeches onto him!



lol

SOXfnNlansing
06-03-2009, 09:11 PM
He's batting .464 through 7 games now!

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2009_06_03_colaaa_chraaa_1&did=t494&sid=t494

ChiSoxGirl
06-03-2009, 09:12 PM
He's batting .464 through 7 games now!

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2009_06_03_colaaa_chraaa_1&did=t494&sid=t494

:o:

sox1970
06-03-2009, 09:29 PM
Combined AA and AAA, he's at .326, with 23 doubles and 4 homers.

It's all about his defense in the next month. If Fields tanks and Beckham shows adequacy at 3B, he could be up around the break.

CHISOXFAN13
06-03-2009, 09:56 PM
Combined AA and AAA, he's at .326, with 23 doubles and 4 homers.

It's all about his defense in the next month. If Fields tanks and Beckham shows adequacy at 3B, he could be up around the break.

Or he could be up tomorrow...

sox1970
06-03-2009, 10:01 PM
Or he could be up tomorrow...

:bandance:

CHISOXFAN13
06-03-2009, 10:03 PM
:bandance:

Agreed!

SOXfnNlansing
06-03-2009, 10:07 PM
Hope he can make the transition.......... luxury hotels, great meals, etc. We know he can play at this level.

Sockinchisox
06-03-2009, 10:25 PM
Any chance Jordan was sent to AAA to replace Beckham on the roster? He was out of the lineup today. Or was it just a routine day off?

sox1970
06-03-2009, 10:31 PM
Any chance Jordan was sent to AAA to replace Beckham on the roster? He was out of the lineup today. Or was it just a routine day off?

That would be really surprising. The strikeouts are still pretty high. I can see going High-A to AA, but not to AAA a month later.

tm1119
06-03-2009, 10:51 PM
So playing good is measured by the single metric of XBH...

Is an IF playing good?
Top 5 Answers on the board - I have XBH - Survey Says?
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/vwgeist/red_x_mark.jpg

Clever, but wrong. At least on the part of Fields. 3B is a power position. If your 3B isn't a power hitter then he should be fast and have a great glove like a Figgins type. Fields is contributing very little to this team right now anyway you look at it.
And Getz hasn't been terrible but he certainly hasn't been good either. He may dserve a little more time because this is his 1st year but we certainly shouldnt be content with his bat with the way it is now.

DirtySox
06-04-2009, 05:55 PM
I'm a little bit sad that I have no reason to follow Charlotte once again.

At least Allen is likely to be promoted this month.