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ike from nj
05-26-2009, 01:04 PM
Does anybody agree that of all the recent Sox players A.J. most often gets a pass from criticism of poor play? He is really a weak hitter (30 RBI pace this year?) and not very good defensively. I know the pitchers are almost always blamed for lack of stolen base defense but when was the last time A.J. made a good throw even after a good jump by the baserunner?


I'm just interested to see if anyone else sees it this way.

Rohan
05-26-2009, 01:11 PM
AJ's hitting .273... That's better than the majority of the team. He's on about a 10 day slump right now. Two weeks ago he was over .300. We've seen hitters go on much worse streaks, and he was 3 for 6 yesterday. So we may be beginning to see the return of his bat.

In 2005 he finished the season hitting .253. But he was STILL one of the best catchers in the majors because of how he handled our pitching staff.

Before you criticize his defense, you have to understand the role of a catcher. The catcher's position is most widely known by baseball followers as the single hardest position in baseball. The most important role of a catcher, among many, is handling the pitching staff.

Aj Pierzynski, has done an incredible job handling both our starters as well as our bullpen. His arm may not be where it used to be, but his glove (stopping wild pitches) and his head (calling the right pitches) are certainly at the top of the majors.

So yes.. We will give him a pass when he doesn't always throw out runners, keeping in mind many of our pitchers have a very slow delivery. And yeah, i'll sure as hell give him a pass when he's in a slump offensively. Because i've seen it before in 2005, 2006, and 2007.

ike from nj
05-26-2009, 01:13 PM
10 RBI's

ike from nj
05-26-2009, 01:15 PM
also i believe in the last two or three years the back-up catchers have a lower pitchers era than AJ.

Rohan
05-26-2009, 01:16 PM
also i believe in the last two or three years the back-up catchers have a lower pitchers era than AJ.

Give me stats to back that claim up.

oeo
05-26-2009, 01:18 PM
10 RBI's

AJ has never been a big RBI guy, although I'm missing where he's on pace for only 30. That's your problem, his RBI's? I'd like to see some more patience from him, but that isn't going to happen. Other than that, this is AJ, and pretty much what we've seen from him in his time here.

esbrechtel
05-26-2009, 01:34 PM
Did anyone get ripped more about stolen bases (besides Contreras?) I do not think AJ has a free pass...

ms620
05-26-2009, 01:36 PM
Give me stats to back that claim up.

Team ERA when a particular cather is cathing is called CERA. Here are the numbers:

2009
AJ 4.73
Miller 3.60

2008
AJ 4.23
Hall 3.68

2007
AJ 4.42
Hall 6.12

2006
AJ 4.47
Widger 6.59

2005
AJ 3.74
Widger 3.30

Big D
05-26-2009, 01:40 PM
He gets a pass because our backup catchers have been so lousy that no one can possibly call for AJ to be benched. Yeah, he has a weak arm, but when the alternative is Chris Widger, Toby Hall, or Corky Miller, all you can do is stick with AJ and hope he hits enough to make up for not throwing out runners. Not that that many teams really have great backup catchers, but AJ has always been clearly better than the alternative.

Huisj
05-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Give me stats to back that claim up.

Stats from baseball-reference:
Catcher ERA (min 100 PA at C position):

2009:
AJ: 4.73
Miller: 3.60

2008:
AJ: 4.17
Hall: 3.68


2007:
AJ: 4.41
Hall: 6.12
Molina: 4.26
Lucy: 5.18

2006:
AJ: 4.47
Widger:5.36
Alomar: 4.79

2005:
AJ: 3.74
Widger: 3.30

Edit: doh, someone beat me.

ms620
05-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Stats from baseball-reference:
Catcher ERA (min 100 PA at C position):

2009:
AJ: 4.73
Miller: 3.60

2008:
AJ: 4.17
Hall: 3.68


2007:
AJ: 4.41
Hall: 6.12
Molina: 4.26
Lucy: 5.18

2006:
AJ: 4.47
Widger:5.36
Alomar: 4.79

2005:
AJ: 3.74
Widger: 3.98

Edit: doh, someone beat me.

I got my numbers from ESPN and there are some differences.

esbrechtel
05-26-2009, 01:49 PM
Stats from baseball-reference:
Catcher ERA (min 100 PA at C position):

2009:
AJ: 4.73
Miller: 3.60

2008:
AJ: 4.17
Hall: 3.68


2007:
AJ: 4.41
Hall: 6.12
Molina: 4.26
Lucy: 5.18

2006:
AJ: 4.47
Widger:5.36
Alomar: 4.79

2005:
AJ: 3.74
Widger: 3.98

Edit: doh, someone beat me.

Could someone put the number games they caught too? Not to mention the pitchers they caught...Because that is like saying "so and so is a better hitter because they are hitting .400 (with only 10 ABs) and he is hitting .300 (with 60 ABs)"

Huisj
05-26-2009, 01:51 PM
Could someone put the number games they caught too? Not to mention the pitchers they caught...Because that is like saying "so and so is a better hitter because they are hitting .400 (with only 10 ABs) and he is hitting .300 (with 60 ABs)"

If I had time and wasn't at work, maybe, but that would be a lot of sifting through other information.

tm1119
05-26-2009, 01:52 PM
AJ's hitting .273... That's better than the majority of the team. He's on about a 10 day slump right now. Two weeks ago he was over .300. We've seen hitters go on much worse streaks, and he was 3 for 6 yesterday. So we may be beginning to see the return of his bat.

In 2005 he finished the season hitting .253. But he was STILL one of the best catchers in the majors because of how he handled our pitching staff.

Before you criticize his defense, you have to understand the role of a catcher. The catcher's position is most widely known by baseball followers as the single hardest position in baseball. The most important role of a catcher, among many, is handling the pitching staff.

Aj Pierzynski, has done an incredible job handling both our starters as well as our bullpen. His arm may not be where it used to be, but his glove (stopping wild pitches) and his head (calling the right pitches) are certainly at the top of the majors.

So yes.. We will give him a pass when he doesn't always throw out runners, keeping in mind many of our pitchers have a very slow delivery. And yeah, i'll sure as hell give him a pass when he's in a slump offensively. Because i've seen it before in 2005, 2006, and 2007.

Our pitching staff was very good in '05 and that was the reason they performed so well. Sure, AJ had a small role, but most starting catchers in the MLB could have handled that staff the same. Obviously his influence isnt that great with how bad our starters are have struggling this year. And his best avg in the past 3 years is .280, and his best OBP is .312. In other words he is very poor offensively. Also, some of the blame for the steals has to go on him. His throws usually are bad regardless of the jump.
But as someone else said, who else is there? Hopefully Flowers can get his D together and be up here soon.

Konerko05
05-26-2009, 01:53 PM
AJ has caught 128, 132, 130, 131 games over the last four years. The backup catcher's sample size is too small to compare ERAs. The stats might also be skewed because I doubt the backup catcher caught every pitcher an equal amount of times. I remember Hall catching for Buehrle a lot in 2008.

dickallen15
05-26-2009, 01:55 PM
Our pitching staff was very good in '05 and that was the reason they performed so well. Sure, AJ had a small role, but most starting catchers in the MLB could have handled that staff the same. Obviously his influence isnt that great with how bad our starters are have struggling this year. And his best avg in the past 3 years is .280, and his best OBP is .312. In other words he is very poor offensively. Also, some of the blame for the steals has to go on him. His throws usually are bad regardless of the jump.
But as someone else said, who else is there? Hopefully Flowers can get his D together and be up here soon.


Yes, the Sox need to go back to the days of Sandy Alomar when he was 45 years old, or Mark Johnson or Toby Hall. Maybe Corky Miller can play everyday. He's not very poor offensively, he's a catcher. Last year he was in the top 6 in OPS for catchers.

TDog
05-26-2009, 02:01 PM
I got my numbers from ESPN and there are some differences.

It's possible that one takes team ERA into account and the other considers individual ERA. There can be differences.

For example, a relief pitcher who comes into an inning that should be over but for an error could give up runs by surrendering hits and walks, and they would be counted against his ERA. They would not count against the team ERA. It is theoretically possible, although ridiculously unlikely, that a team could have relievers with ERAs over 6 and a perfect 0.00 team ERA.

GAsoxfan
05-26-2009, 02:07 PM
AJ's not an all-star, but he's definitely a starting-caliber catcher.

ms620
05-26-2009, 02:23 PM
I think the original posters point is getting lost here. He is not saying that he is not a starting caliber catcher, or that he has not helped the sox. What he is saying is that various people complain about players like Thome and Konerko, and there is really not THAT much complaining about AJ. I would agree with that.

spawn
05-26-2009, 02:26 PM
I think the original posters point is getting lost here. He is not saying that he is not a starting caliber catcher, or that he has not helped the sox. What he is saying is that various people complain about players like Thome and Konerko, and there is really not THAT much complaining about AJ. I would agree with that.
That's because various people just like to complain. Counting this thread, I don't think there is anyone on the White Sox roster that someone hasn't bitched or complained about at one time or another.

dickallen15
05-26-2009, 02:31 PM
I think the original posters point is getting lost here. He is not saying that he is not a starting caliber catcher, or that he has not helped the sox. What he is saying is that various people complain about players like Thome and Konerko, and there is really not THAT much complaining about AJ. I would agree with that.

Why does there have to be complaining? Just because others get complained about and they don't deserve it, doesn't mean there should be even more complaining.

There is always someone when a players goes 0 for 4 who will say he sucks, or he's done, or overrated. I actually was sitting next to a guy at the game last weekend who would complain if a White Sox pitcher ever threw a non-strike. At first it was amusing, but after a while, we moved. It made the game very unenjoyable. It was Floyd's win. The guy still complained about 50 times, what did he give up 2 hits?

kittle42
05-26-2009, 02:51 PM
There is always someone when a players goes 0 for 4 who will say he sucks, or he's done, or overrated. I actually was sitting next to a guy at the game last weekend who would complain if a White Sox pitcher ever threw a non-strike. At first it was amusing, but after a while, we moved. It made the game very unenjoyable. It was Floyd's win. The guy still complained about 50 times, what did he give up 2 hits?

This is because, in general, many sports fans are stupid.

Warriorjan
05-26-2009, 02:53 PM
AJ is the first "real" catcher we've had since around the time of Fisk, IMO. He has to get some of the credit for the way the staff performed, especially in 2005. You can't compare his numbers to the backup catchers because he catches the majority of games, so it's like comparing apples and oranges. Some of the blame for the stolen bases rests with the pitchers, they're terrible at holding runners on (except for MB, of course). I like the way he calls the gameand the tenaciousness he brings. He does get his share of criticism, it seems to me. No one is giving him a pass. As an aside, remember how awful Mark's numbers were that one year with Widger? He got lit up everytime Widger caught him, it seemed, and one writer even wrote an article about the "Widger factor"

hawkjt
05-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Yes, AJ probably escapes a bit of criticism here,but I think it is because he has an attitude that Sox fans like...chip on his shoulder..**** type air about him that we can relate to...I think he is a leader, we need that also. I think his bat will come around. His throwing is not going to improve a great deal but with Danks,Burls,and Clay as starters,and Jose out..it is not so glaring. If Poreda joins the rotation next year replacing Bart...4 leftys should cut down on the stolen bases. Sorry, I still like Dennis the Menace.

chisox77
05-26-2009, 04:09 PM
AJ is fine in my world. He's been a good catcher, with attitude that pushes his game a little further.

ike from nj
05-26-2009, 04:14 PM
the point i was making is that in my opinion the whitesox need to get improved play out of the catcher position. it is not that corky miller or toby hall or chris widger are better or more deserving to start than AJ. his attitude only goes so far and at some point he needs to contribute more than tenacity. last nights game is an example. AJ gets 3 hits, no rbi's and leaves 3 on...in a game the Sox score 17 runs. assuming he plays 140 games this year he is on pace to drive in 38.8 runs. i just don't see that his defense is that good. what standards do you use to evaluate his handling of the pitching staff? i just think that most sox fans over value his contributions to the team. when looking at the teams strengths, i think atching is not one of them.

DonnieDarko
05-26-2009, 05:58 PM
the point i was making is that in my opinion the whitesox need to get improved play out of the catcher position. it is not that corky miller or toby hall or chris widger are better or more deserving to start than AJ. his attitude only goes so far and at some point he needs to contribute more than tenacity. last nights game is an example. AJ gets 3 hits, no rbi's and leaves 3 on...in a game the Sox score 17 runs. assuming he plays 140 games this year he is on pace to drive in 38.8 runs. i just don't see that his defense is that good. what standards do you use to evaluate his handling of the pitching staff? i just think that most sox fans over value his contributions to the team. when looking at the teams strengths, i think atching is not one of them.

Dude!

He's a catcher! He's not supposed to be some offensive star. Catchers like that are not a dime a dozen: if you can get any kind of good offense out of your backstop, then it's like icing on the cake, not a requirement.

Zisk77
05-26-2009, 06:14 PM
also i believe in the last two or three years the back-up catchers have a lower pitchers era than AJ.

Yeah, the twins broadcasters said that Corky Millers ERA was a full run better than AJ's, but corky never catches JOSE CONTRERAS! So its just another example of a meaningless stat. How many stud pitchers have their pet catcher always catch them? of course their era will be lower.

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2009, 06:18 PM
That's because various people just like to complain. Counting this thread, I don't think there is anyone on the White Sox roster that someone hasn't bitched or complained about at one time or another.

I haven't started a "rip Paulie" or "trade Paulie" thread in a while. :tongue:

Hangar was all over Dye's case for the first half of 2005 (I believe his words were "End the Jermaine Dye Experiment Now!), but since then I don't think anyone has dedicated a threat to ripping Dye.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread dedicated to ripping Buehrle.

ms620
05-26-2009, 06:39 PM
Dude!

He's a catcher! He's not supposed to be some offensive star. Catchers like that are not a dime a dozen: if you can get any kind of good offense out of your backstop, then it's like icing on the cake, not a requirement.

I completely disagree. Everyone says AJ's value is how he calls the game. I find it hard to believe that he calls the game THAT much better than the average catcher. However, his defense is well below average. I do not think that you can have the mentality that catchers do not have to hit. But if you do, they must be stellar behing the plate. Not just at calling games, but in controlling the running game as well.

MarySwiss
05-26-2009, 07:08 PM
I completely disagree. Everyone says AJ's value is how he calls the game. I find it hard to believe that he calls the game THAT much better than the average catcher. However, his defense is well below average. I do not think that you can have the mentality that catchers do not have to hit. But if you do, they must be stellar behing the plate. Not just at calling games, but in controlling the running game as well.

So that's what everyone says? Please.

As others have pointed out in this this thread, his value encompasses much more. Attitude, IMO, is a big part of what he brings to the table. Not to mention intelligence, which--again IMO--is one of the traits that has made other teams and their fans dislike him so much.

JB98
05-26-2009, 07:28 PM
Maybe AJ does get a pass. If so, who cares?

kittle42
05-26-2009, 07:31 PM
Maybe AJ does get a pass. If so, who cares?

We must hate every one of our players!!!

Brian26
05-26-2009, 07:33 PM
the point i was making is that in my opinion the whitesox need to get improved play out of the catcher position. it is not that corky miller or toby hall or chris widger are better or more deserving to start than AJ. his attitude only goes so far and at some point he needs to contribute more than tenacity. last nights game is an example. AJ gets 3 hits, no rbi's and leaves 3 on...in a game the Sox score 17 runs. assuming he plays 140 games this year he is on pace to drive in 38.8 runs. i just don't see that his defense is that good. what standards do you use to evaluate his handling of the pitching staff? i just think that most sox fans over value his contributions to the team. when looking at the teams strengths, i think atching is not one of them.

There are quite a few holes in your argument.

Game-calling is non-debatable because the Sox dugout is still calling pitches for certain sequences in the game. As has been pointed out, its completely unfair to hang the stolen base problem on AJ. I'll also point out that AJ is one of the best guys in the game at blocking pitches in the dirt. You need to watch the games to understand these points. There are no stats that are going to prove the three items I just laid out for you.

JB98
05-26-2009, 07:33 PM
We must hate every one of our players!!!

Seriously. There are already plenty of clubhouse threads dedicated to complaining and rip jobs on Sox players and coaches.

GlassSox
05-26-2009, 07:45 PM
Seriously. There are already plenty of clubhouse threads dedicated to complaining and rip jobs on Sox players and coaches.

Amen and let's move on.

dickallen15
05-26-2009, 08:02 PM
There are quite a few holes in your argument.

Game-calling is non-debatable because the Sox dugout is still calling pitches for certain sequences in the game. As has been pointed out, its completely unfair to hang the stolen base problem on AJ. I'll also point out that AJ is one of the best guys in the game at blocking pitches in the dirt. You need to watch the games to understand these points. There are no stats that are going to prove the three items I just laid out for you.

The Sox dugout does not call pitches. That is a fact. Ozzie has stated it many, many times. The Sox best pitcher is Buerhle. He never shakes off AJ. I would say AJ calls a good game, certainly much better than any of us would call, but we have the advantage of bitching about it after a hit.

ms620
05-26-2009, 08:42 PM
I really do not understand what the problem with this thread is. As fans, we overanalyze things, complain about things and voice our opinions. That is one of the reasons this message board is here. If people want to discuss the performance of AJ they have the right. You do not have to read the thread. However, I actually am sick of people making comments like "this thread sucks" or "we have plenty of these types of threads". Who are you to monitor what people talk about as long as it stays within the rules of the board. Do I love AJ? Of course I do. And I always will. But I hate complacency, and just b/c AJ has been very important to the sox, I am not going to overlook what I consider to be his shortcomings. Would I rather have Gerald Laird or John Buck? Obviously not. But when people day in and day out talk about how much our offense sucks (at some point wise, fields, BA, getz, Alexei, TCQ, Thome, Konerko, Dye, lillibridge, etc...) how come nobody talks about AJ, hitting .192 w/RISP and grounded in to 6 double plays. Oh I forgot, because he calls a good game.

JB98
05-26-2009, 08:44 PM
I really do not understand what the problem with this thread is. As fans, we overanalyze things, complain about things and voice our opinions. That is one of the reasons this message board is here. If people want to discuss the performance of AJ they have the right. You do not have to read the thread. However, I actually am sick of people making comments like "this thread sucks" or "we have plenty of these types of threads". Who are you to monitor what people talk about as long as it stays within the rules of the board. Do I love AJ? Of course I do. And I always will. But I hate complacency, and just b/c AJ has been very important to the sox, I am not going to overlook what I consider to be his shortcomings. Would I rather have Gerald Laird or John Buck? Obviously not. But when people day in and day out talk about how much our offense sucks (at some point wise, fields, BA, getz, Alexei, TCQ, Thome, Konerko, Dye, lillibridge, etc...) how come nobody talks about AJ, hitting .192 w/RISP and grounded in to 6 double plays. Oh I forgot, because he calls a good game.

This is a thread complaining about the lack of complaining. IMO, it is very stupid.

ms620
05-26-2009, 08:47 PM
This is a thread complaining about the lack of complaining. IMO, it is very stupid.

So if he would have worded it as "AJ's performance is hurting the Sox" it would have been better?

JB98
05-26-2009, 08:49 PM
So if he would have worded it as "AJ's performance is hurting the Sox" it would have been better?

No.

MarySwiss
05-26-2009, 08:50 PM
This is a thread complaining about the lack of complaining. IMO, it is very stupid.

Yep. Not to mention that the OP started the thread with "Does anybody agree...?"

If the OP started the thread with this question, why does it bother anyone that people offered dissenting opinions?

ms620
05-26-2009, 08:53 PM
This is a serious question, I am not trying to be a smart ass....

If at the end of the season AJ hit .220, 8 home runs, 38 RBI, .200 w/RISP..would it be acceptable due to his game calling ability and intangibles?

Daver
05-26-2009, 08:54 PM
I don't get it, most people acknowledged years ago that the Sox traded defense for offense when they signed AJ, so what is the point of this thread? Are you just now realizing that AJ ain't all that great at wearing the tools? If that is the case what rock have you been hiding under?

ms620
05-26-2009, 08:55 PM
I don't get it, most people acknowledged years ago that the Sox traded defense for offense when they signed AJ, so what is the point of this thread? Are you just now realizing that AJ ain't all that great at wearing the tools? If that is the case what rock have you been hiding under?

So if you are trading defense for offense, shouldn't you have higher expectations than the numbers that AJ is currently putting up?

Daver
05-26-2009, 08:58 PM
So if you are trading defense for offense, shouldn't you have higher expectations than the numbers that AJ is currently putting up?

Compared to his numbers from previous seasons? Yes, but I also don't get critical in May, it was about this time last year that AJ was moved to the 2 hole and had a productive season there.

Brian26
05-26-2009, 09:00 PM
The Sox dugout does not call pitches. That is a fact. Ozzie has stated it many, many times.

I've seen Cora, of all people, calling pitches as recently as two weeks ago from the Sox dugout.

Not every pitch, every inning, but it is being done. Ozzie's full of it.

MarySwiss
05-26-2009, 09:00 PM
This is a serious question, I am not trying to be a smart ass....

If at the end of the season AJ hit .220, 8 home runs, 38 RBI, .200 w/RISP..would it be acceptable due to his game calling ability and intangibles?

Again IMO, yes. But I'm pretty sure those stats will not be the final ones.

ms620
05-26-2009, 09:01 PM
Compared to his numbers from previous seasons? Yes, but I also don't get critical in May, it was about this time last year that AJ was moved to the 2 hole and had a productive season there.

I agree that it is only May. But if he continues to perform on this pace, I do not think his intangibles would outweigh his struggles at the plate. This is where the disagrement lies. Most here believe that his value as a game caller is enough to offset a sub par season at the plate...i disagree.

Daver
05-26-2009, 09:07 PM
I agree that it is only May. But if he continues to perform on this pace, I do not think his intangibles would outweigh his struggles at the plate. This is where the disagrement lies. Most here believe that his value as a game caller is enough to offset a sub par season at the plate...i disagree.

I'm not most people, and he doesn't call a game, the Sox haven't had a catcher that called a game since Fisk was cut, and he didn't do it when Larussa was here. Considering the fact that you almost never see a shakeoff from a pitcher I would have to say the pitchers are calling more pitches than the catcher is, which is not exactly what most people will think it is and will misinterpret the point I am making.

balke
05-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Catcher will need to addressed soon. AJ is better than numbers. He is aging though, and can't throw anyone out.

I'm pretty sure if the Sox replaced him, it would be for a downgrade. He's got decent power, and his .270 avg. is like hitting .310 on this team.

TheVulture
05-26-2009, 10:36 PM
AJ has always caught for teams with a good staff, Twins, Giants, Sox - he's caught Radke, Mays, Santana, Kenny Rogers, Schmidt, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, Garcia, El Duque, Vazquez, Danks, Floyd and Colon. Richard is looking good. I think he knows what he's doing.

JB98
05-26-2009, 11:16 PM
AJ has always caught for teams with a good staff, Twins, Giants, Sox - he's caught Radke, Mays, Santana, Kenny Rogers, Schmidt, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, Garcia, El Duque, Vazquez, Danks, Floyd and Colon. Richard is looking good. I think he knows what he's doing.

In 8 years as an everyday MLB catcher, AJ has:

--played on 5 90-win teams
--played on 4 division-winners
--played on a World Series winner in 2005
--played on only one losing team (2007 Sox)

I agree. He knows what he's doing.

russ99
05-26-2009, 11:27 PM
I'll go back to my precanned post whenever anyone criticizes A.J., epecially his defense: Do you want to go back to Karkovice hitting .190 and throwing out half the opposing base-stealers?

A.J.'s value is in the complete player: the solid hitting catcher / lefty bat with some pop, excellent on the basepaths, the handling of pitchers, the leadership, and the intangibles - aka being a royal pain in the ass to get the Sox going.

I wouldn't trade him for any other catcher in the majors. Well OK, maybe Mauer....

Craig Grebeck
05-26-2009, 11:34 PM
I'll go back to my precanned post whenever anyone criticizes A.J., epecially his defense: Do you want to go back to Karkovice hitting .190 and throwing out half the opposing base-stealers?

A.J.'s value is in the complete player: the solid hitting catcher / lefty bat with some pop, excellent on the basepaths, the handling of pitchers, the leadership, and the intangibles - aka being a royal pain in the ass to get the Sox going.

I wouldn't trade him for any other catcher in the majors. Well OK, maybe Mauer....
Or Yadier Molina. Or Jesus Flores. Or Mike Napoli. Or Kurt Suzuki. Or Russell Martin. Or Kelly Shoppach. Or Chris Snyder. Or Brian McCann. Or many others.

AJ is middle of the road. Nothing more, nothing less.

soxfanreggie
05-26-2009, 11:38 PM
Does anyone else think that someone didn't get an AJ autograph recently? :D:

Seriously, AJ is slumping, but even when slumping, he always brings his intangibles to the games. Few people have proven to me to be as smart and tuned into the game as he has been. There's a reason we don't bat AJ 3-4-5; he wasn't brought in to hit in that position. Once he gets out of his slump, I'm sure his stats will improve tremendously. I do look at what we have backing him up, and it's not like we have someone who'd be starting on another team waiting in the wings.

Ron Karkovice
05-27-2009, 12:37 AM
Or Yadier Molina. Or Jesus Flores. Or Mike Napoli. Or Kurt Suzuki. Or Russell Martin. Or Kelly Shoppach. Or Chris Snyder. Or Brian McCann. Or many others.

AJ is middle of the road. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'd rather have Victor and the other Molina as well. I'd rather have AJ over Shoppach and Snyder however.

I'd put AJ SLIGHTLY higher than middle of the road.

Ron Karkovice
05-27-2009, 12:37 AM
Does anyone else think that someone didn't get an AJ autograph recently? :D:



It was in terrible handwriting and he only signed the A and J!!!:gulp: Too soon?

Nellie_Fox
05-27-2009, 01:05 AM
It was in terrible handwriting and he only signed the A and J!!!Was Buehrle starting?

Taliesinrk
05-27-2009, 01:37 AM
Or Yadier Molina. Or Jesus Flores. Or Mike Napoli. Or Kurt Suzuki. Or Russell Martin. Or Kelly Shoppach. Or Chris Snyder. Or Brian McCann. Or many others.

AJ is middle of the road. Nothing more, nothing less.

Again Grebeck... you can't measure everything with stats. Ask the Oakland A's.

dickallen15
05-27-2009, 07:25 AM
I'm not most people, and he doesn't call a game, the Sox haven't had a catcher that called a game since Fisk was cut, and he didn't do it when Larussa was here. Considering the fact that you almost never see a shakeoff from a pitcher I would have to say the pitchers are calling more pitches than the catcher is, which is not exactly what most people will think it is and will misinterpret the point I am making.
AJP calls every game he catches. The only thing he gets from the dugout are pitchouts and throws over. Ozzie has been quoted saying he cannot call the game, so its on the catcher.

dickallen15
05-27-2009, 07:27 AM
I really do not understand what the problem with this thread is. As fans, we overanalyze things, complain about things and voice our opinions. That is one of the reasons this message board is here. If people want to discuss the performance of AJ they have the right. You do not have to read the thread. However, I actually am sick of people making comments like "this thread sucks" or "we have plenty of these types of threads". Who are you to monitor what people talk about as long as it stays within the rules of the board. Do I love AJ? Of course I do. And I always will. But I hate complacency, and just b/c AJ has been very important to the sox, I am not going to overlook what I consider to be his shortcomings. Would I rather have Gerald Laird or John Buck? Obviously not. But when people day in and day out talk about how much our offense sucks (at some point wise, fields, BA, getz, Alexei, TCQ, Thome, Konerko, Dye, lillibridge, etc...) how come nobody talks about AJ, hitting .192 w/RISP and grounded in to 6 double plays. Oh I forgot, because he calls a good game.

Maybe they should have permanent threads with every White Sox player to just discuss what there is to complain about with their performance.

ms620
05-27-2009, 07:36 AM
Maybe they should have permanent threads with every White Sox player to just discuss what there is to complain about with their performance.

That would actualyl work out well. They do it on the yankees board. Does not have to be just complaining, but it could be performance threads per player. THis way if you do not want to discuss the current performance of a given player, just dont read the thread.

Marqhead
05-27-2009, 07:53 AM
Maybe they should have permanent threads with every White Sox player to just discuss what there is to complain about with their performance.

What fun is that if you don't get the pleasure of ripping the OP everytime a new thread is created? :cool:

Craig Grebeck
05-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Again Grebeck... you can't measure everything with stats. Ask the Oakland A's.
AJ has to be a miracle worker in the clubhouse to make up for his defense.

doublem23
05-27-2009, 11:27 AM
That would actualyl work out well. They do it on the yankees board. Does not have to be just complaining, but it could be performance threads per player. THis way if you do not want to discuss the current performance of a given player, just dont read the thread.

I dont' see how that differs from our system at all, except we don't have 25 extra threads stuck at the top of the Clubhouse.

soxinem1
05-27-2009, 11:51 AM
AJ may not be a HOF catcher, but a few guys named Contreras, Floyd, Garcia, Richard, Danks, among others, have/had no clue in even trying to improve their efforts of holding runners.

True, he's made some bizzare throws, but why pick on him for that?

Maybe he's pissed he never has a chance when his pitchers allow the runners to get 75% of the way down to a base before he can make a throw?

Daver
05-27-2009, 06:32 PM
AJP calls every game he catches. The only thing he gets from the dugout are pitchouts and throws over. Ozzie has been quoted saying he cannot call the game, so its on the catcher.

He may call pitches, but that is not calling a game.

Marqhead
05-27-2009, 06:56 PM
He may call pitches, but that is not calling a game.

Please elaborate.

Daver
05-27-2009, 07:33 PM
Please elaborate.

Calling pitches and calling a game are two completely different things, catchers don't call games anymore.

Marqhead
05-27-2009, 07:40 PM
Calling pitches and calling a game are two completely different things, catchers don't call games anymore.

I was able to grasp that from your first post. What is the difference in your opinion?

I've always thought/been told that a catcher calling the pitches was calling a game. :scratch:

Daver
05-27-2009, 07:53 PM
I was able to grasp that from your first post. What is the difference in your opinion?

I've always thought/been told that a catcher calling the pitches was calling a game. :scratch:

No, calling pitches is calling pitches, calling a game is calling pitches, pitchouts, positioning infielders and outfielders based on the tendencies of the hitter, setting up infield strategy based on the baserunner, and signalling the manager when to get the bullpen working.

The tools of ignorance have become a lot easier to wear in the last thirty years, since the catcher doesn't do any of that anymore. Back in the seventies an intentional walk was signalled to the second baseman and relayed to the catcher, as the catcher always had his back to the dugout.

Marqhead
05-27-2009, 07:57 PM
No, calling pitches is calling pitches, calling a game is calling pitches, pitchouts, positioning infielders and outfielders based on the tendencies of the hitter, setting up infield strategy based on the baserunner, and signalling the manager when to get the bullpen working.

The tools of ignorance have become a lot easier to wear in the last thirty years, since the catcher doesn't do any of that anymore. Back in the seventies an intentional walk was signalled to the second baseman and relayed to the catcher, as the catcher always had his back to the dugout.

Much appreciated.

MrRoboto83
05-27-2009, 11:19 PM
I'd love to see AJ gone, he is past his prime.

kittle42
05-27-2009, 11:34 PM
I'd love to see AJ gone, he is past his prime.

Hey, first time I've done this, I think...

:dtroll:

MrRoboto83
05-28-2009, 06:36 AM
Hey, first time I've done this, I think...

:dtroll:


You are wrong. I have not liked AJ since 2006. Sox should not of signed his extention.

kittle42
05-28-2009, 09:04 AM
You are wrong. I have not liked AJ since 2006. Sox should not of signed his extention.

Given the turn this thread has taken, I'll use this chance to point out that it's "should not have." There is no such thing as "could of" or "would of."

WhiteSoxOnly
05-28-2009, 09:27 PM
Given the turn this thread has taken, I'll use this chance to point out that it's "should not have." There is no such thing as "could of" or "would of."

How about "dey shoodint have" ?

kittle42
05-28-2009, 10:27 PM
How about "dey shoodint have" ?

Acceptable.