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Madvora
05-26-2009, 07:47 AM
Is there anywhere that has a history of the Cubs v Sox exhibition match ups before 1997?

I used to love watching these games and I've love to see who actually played in them.

esbrechtel
05-26-2009, 08:12 AM
Jordan played in one and had a good game if I remember correctly...

doublem23
05-26-2009, 08:17 AM
Richard Lindberg's White Sox Encyclopedia had a pretty good White Sox/Cubs section. I don't remember how detailed it was about each individual game, but short of looking back through Tribune and Sun-Times archives for the individual box scores, this is as good as you'll find.

This is the book: http://www.amazon.com/White-Encyclopedia-Baseball-Encyclopedias-Nort/dp/156639449X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243343705&sr=1-2#

Madvora
05-26-2009, 09:32 AM
Jordan played in one and had a good game if I remember correctly...
Yeah, that's what got me wondering about this in the first place. I was reading up on Jordan at the Birmingham Barons and they mentioned his 2-5, 2 RBI day against the Cubs at the Windy City Classic (link (http://birmingham.barons.milb.com/about/page.jsp?ymd=20080131&content_id=343731&vkey=about_t247&fext=.jsp&sid=t247))

tebman
05-26-2009, 10:19 AM
Way, way back (1920s-1930s) there was a City Series at the end of the season. The White Sox Encyclopedia probably has details on that.

eriqjaffe
05-26-2009, 10:24 AM
Way, way back (1920s-1930s) there was a City Series at the end of the season. The White Sox Encyclopedia probably has details on that.The Internet Archive actually has a radio broadcast of one of the games from 1936.

http://www.archive.org/details/361002CubsVsWhiteSox

siugrad25
05-26-2009, 10:33 AM
Yeah, that's what got me wondering about this in the first place. I was reading up on Jordan at the Birmingham Barons and they mentioned his 2-5, 2 RBI day against the Cubs at the Windy City Classic (link (http://birmingham.barons.milb.com/about/page.jsp?ymd=20080131&content_id=343731&vkey=about_t247&fext=.jsp&sid=t247))

Yeah, my friend and I went to that game at Wrigley. He actually was named the game's "MVP" if I'm not mistaken. I remember going to those games back in the late '80s and early '90s. Think I actually have some of the pins they gave away.

TDog
05-26-2009, 10:47 AM
Yeah, my friend and I went to that game at Wrigley. He actually was named the game's "MVP" if I'm not mistaken. ...

But the game ended in a tie, and Jordan failed to score from second base on a double.

My first live baseball game was a Boys Benefit Game in the 1960s. The White Sox beat the Cubs 7-2, and I've never been able to find a resource that could tell the year.

Lip Man 1
05-26-2009, 11:21 AM
April 7, 1994 - In the annual “Crosstown Classic” charity game, Michael Jordan writes his name into Sox lore. His double in the late innings ties the game and prevents the Sox from losing for the first time in this series. The game would be called a tie. The Sox would go 10 - 0 - 2 in this affair that lasted from 1985 through 1995. (Two games were played in 1995)

April 29, 1985 - A new yearly tradition is established in the first annual "Crosstown Classic" charity game matching the Sox and Cubs. Down through the years both teams played each other on and off in spring training or during an open date in the regular season. This is the first time both teams agree to play on a yearly basis with a corporate sponsor (Busch Beer). The game alternates between Comiskey Park and Wrigley Field and is played every year through 1995 (Because of the labor impasse the teams played two games that season.) The Sox win the opener at Comiskey Park 7 - 4 but it’s only the start of a remarkable run. The two teams play a total of 12 games and the Sox never lose!!!!! They go 10 - 0 - 2 during that time period. After 1995, the series is dropped. It’s never publicly explained why, but reports persisted that the cancellation of the series was at the Cubs request.

DumpJerry
05-26-2009, 11:27 AM
April 7, 1994 - In the annual “Crosstown Classic” charity game, Michael Jordan writes his name into Sox lore. His double in the late innings ties the game and prevents the Sox from losing for the first time in this series. The game would be called a tie. The Sox would go 10 - 0 - 2 in this affair that lasted from 1985 through 1995. (Two games were played in 1995)
1985- 1995? I went to these games during the 1970's when I was in grade school and high school. Graduated high school in 1980, so we're talking pre-1985.

kba
05-26-2009, 11:51 AM
This 1961 article (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/717743382.html?dids=717743382:717743382&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=Jun+25%2C+1961&author=RICHARD+DOZER&pub=Chicago+Daily+Tribune&desc=Cubs%2C+Sox+Meet+in+Boys%27+Benefit+Game+Tomo rrow&pqatl=google) refers to the "12th annual boys benefit game," so we know the Cub-Sox game goes back at least as far as 1949.

This Google search (http://www.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22boys+benefit+game%22) comes up with some more stories about the games over the years. With most of them, you can read the headline for free, but have to pay if you want to read the whole story.

Woofer
05-26-2009, 11:56 AM
According to The White Sox Encyclopedia, (Lindberg) the Sox and Cubs played a city series almost every year between 1903-1942. The Sox had a great record in these series, winning 18 series to 6, with one tie. Some of these series went as many as 14 games, usually 7. According to Linberg, because of South Side domination, interest in the series lagged, and the games were called off in 1943.

downstairs
05-26-2009, 12:01 PM
1985- 1995? I went to these games during the 1970's when I was in grade school and high school. Graduated high school in 1980, so we're talking pre-1985.

His article is referring to the official Busch Beer sponsored "Crosstown Classic" that was a yearly event.

There were less "formal" exhibitions many times before 1985, but I don't think it was a big of an event.

roylestillman
05-26-2009, 01:05 PM
His article is referring to the official Busch Beer sponsored "Crosstown Classic" that was a yearly event.

There were less "formal" exhibitions many times before 1985, but I don't think it was a big of an event.

The "Boy's Benefit" game in the 60's were huge draws. (for some reason I remember a picture of people being allowed to sit on the warning track.)

A Cubs/Sox series was revived after the strike of 1981. It was a "Mayor Jane Byrne Presents" affair. I went to the game at Comiskey.

TDog
05-26-2009, 01:43 PM
His article is referring to the official Busch Beer sponsored "Crosstown Classic" that was a yearly event.

There were less "formal" exhibitions many times before 1985, but I don't think it was a big of an event.

In 1969 and 1970, the only crowds above 30,000 at Comiskey were for the Boys Benefit Game. They might have been the only games that drew above 20,000. They didn't play them at Wrigley (except once in 1971 or 1972) because Comiskey held more people.

Those games were huge. They certainly weren't less formal.

As I understand it, the postseason series was stopped by baseball because it was drawing Chicagoans' interest away from the World Series. But that is something I heard Jack Brickhouse say once.

WhiteSox5187
05-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Isn't there a clip of someone hitting a homerun in one of those series in the montage? It would have been around 1987-1989 based on the uniforms, but someone hits a homerun off of a guy in a blue jersey and I think that Texas had stopped wearing blue jerseys by that point, so I think that only leaves the Cubs.

TommyJohn
05-26-2009, 02:19 PM
In 1969 and 1970, the only crowds above 30,000 at Comiskey were for the Boys Benefit Game. They might have been the only games that drew above 20,000. They didn't play them at Wrigley (except once in 1971 or 1972) because Comiskey held more people.

Those games were huge. They certainly weren't less formal.

As I understand it, the postseason series was stopped by baseball because it was drawing Chicagoans' interest away from the World Series. But that is something I heard Jack Brickhouse say once.

The last series in 1942 drew only 55,000 for six games (only one crowd hit five figures) so I think it was the other way around-the World Series was drawing the attention away from the City Series. I have reseached it a bit and have found articles in 1943 and 1944, both stating that the Cubs were not going to challenge the White Sox that October. The reason cited in 1943 was "exhaustion" (presumably from getting their asses whipped by the Sox and AL World Series champs every October) and in 1945 they were in the World Series. It appears that after that the series was just quietly dropped.

LITTLE NELL
05-26-2009, 02:30 PM
[QUOTE=roylestillman;2240155]The "Boy's Benefit" game in the 60's were huge draws. (for some reason I remember a picture of people being allowed to sit on the warning track.)
I was at that game, it was in June of 1964, fans were sitting in the aisles besides standing on the warning track from center field to the right field foul pole. Had to be 55,000 in the park that night. Sox won 11-1 despite letting the Cubs be the home team in the old ballpark. Sox won most of the Boys Benefit Games.
Being a Sox fan was really great in those days, it was a Sox town as we outdrew the Cubs every year from 51 to 68. We were over .500 every year and the Flubs were always in what we called the 2nd division in those days. (5th,6th,7th and 8th place).

jdm2662
05-26-2009, 02:54 PM
Isn't there a clip of someone hitting a homerun in one of those series in the montage? It would have been around 1987-1989 based on the uniforms, but someone hits a homerun off of a guy in a blue jersey and I think that Texas had stopped wearing blue jerseys by that point, so I think that only leaves the Cubs.

That would be Greg Walker against the Cubs in 1987. The ball hit the centerfield scoreboard.

Madvora
05-26-2009, 02:55 PM
What were the lineups like in these games back in the 60s? Were both teams playing their starters?

kba
05-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Had to be 55,000 in the park that night.

52,712 (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/576171692.html?dids=576171692:576171692&FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&date=Jun+26%2C+1964&author=&pub=Chicago+Tribune&desc=52%2C712+SEE+WHITE+SOX+ROUT+CUBS%2C+11-1&pqatl=google)

What were the lineups like in these games back in the 60s? Were both teams playing their starters?

Usually, the regular position players were in the lineup for at least the first half of the game. Sometimes, the teams would bring up minor leaguers to pitch. In 1969, there was some controversy (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19690806&id=iPcNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=unsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4089,4082283) when Durocher announced plans to rest Banks, Santo, Williams, and his other stars. (Apparently, he wanted to make sure they were well-rested for their September collapse.) He eventually caved to the pressure and changed his mind ... and Williams and Banks homered (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/585924672.html?FMT=ABS&dids=585924672:585924672&FMTS=CITE:AI&type=historic&date=Aug+19%2C+1969&author=&pub=Chicago+Tribune&desc=33%2C333+SEE+CUB+HOMERS+BEAT+SOX%2C+2-0) for a 2-0 Cubs win.

Brian26
05-26-2009, 05:23 PM
That would be Greg Walker against the Cubs in 1987. The ball hit the centerfield scoreboard.

No way did that ball hit the centefield scoreboard. I think only a half dozen shots in the history of the park even made it into the centerfield bleachers.

But, wasn't that '87 game the night that the fog rolled in and made it almost impossible to see some balls hit into the outfield? You could say Walker's ball hit the scoreboard and nobody could probably prove you wrong. :D:

TDog
05-26-2009, 07:31 PM
The last series in 1942 drew only 55,000 for six games (only one crowd hit five figures) so I think it was the other way around-the World Series was drawing the attention away from the City Series. I have reseached it a bit and have found articles in 1943 and 1944, both stating that the Cubs were not going to challenge the White Sox that October. The reason cited in 1943 was "exhaustion" (presumably from getting their asses whipped by the Sox and AL World Series champs every October) and in 1945 they were in the World Series. It appears that after that the series was just quietly dropped.

As noted, my source was Jack Brickhouse. I didn't argue his accuracy.

Of course, the season is over and players want to go home. The White Sox generally had less regular season success in those years and had greater incentive to win as something to prove.

Attendance figures can be a bit deceptive, though. The last time the Cubs won the World Series, the attendance for the clinching game was reported as 6,210.

russ99
05-27-2009, 12:06 AM
No way did that ball hit the centefield scoreboard. I think only a half dozen shots in the history of the park even made it into the centerfield bleachers.


I think you're right. If anyone ever hit the scoreboard at Old Comiskey, they would have made a huge deal out of it. The famous roof shots were at most around 500 feet, so you'd likely need to go 575+ to hit the scoreboard.

Maybe one of Schmidt or Dawson's wind-blown mammoth shots at Wrigley could have come close, but Comiskey didn't have the same wind factor.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2009, 11:07 AM
My comments were strickly about the "Crosstown Classic" and Jordan that were asked by the poster. The Sox and Cubs have been playing on a semi-regular basis since the 1930's.

Not claiming any were more important than the others, just trying to help the person who was asking.

And here's another one:

June 16, 1997 - After numerous charity and exhibition games, the Sox and Cubs play for real for the first time. The overall record through the end of the 2002 spring training season had the Sox ahead 137- 91- 6 including an amazing 10 - 0 - 2 in the ‘Windy City Classic’ played for charity from 1985 through 1995 (there were two games in 1995.)


Lip

TommyJohn
05-29-2009, 11:25 AM
But the game ended in a tie, and Jordan failed to score from second base on a double.

My first live baseball game was a Boys Benefit Game in the 1960s. The White Sox beat the Cubs 7-2, and I've never been able to find a resource that could tell the year.


That was the 1965 game. There is a file out there on the net where a guy has written down all the results of the CS, BBG, WCC, ILP, etc. Wonderful source, and that is where I found the result. Unfortunately, I got booted out before I could post a link for you. AFter that I googled it several times but could not find it! This was moments after googling it once and getting it! AAAAH!

ode to veeck
05-29-2009, 12:18 PM
No way did that ball hit the centefield scoreboard. I think only a half dozen shots in the history of the park even made it into the centerfield bleachers.

But, wasn't that '87 game the night that the fog rolled in and made it almost impossible to see some balls hit into the outfield? You could say Walker's ball hit the scoreboard and nobody could probably prove you wrong. :D:

Harmon Killabrew hit the hardest hit baseball I ever saw hit at Comiskey (including roof shots) in mid-late 60s, a line drive off the scoreboard that had no arc.

thechico
05-29-2009, 03:44 PM
1985- 1995? I went to these games during the 1970's when I was in grade school and high school. Graduated high school in 1980, so we're talking pre-1985.

If it was "the 70s", it was no earlier than '79. I remember reading a Sun-Times article about how Jane Byrne pushed to bring the Crosstown Classic back. Since she was elected after the blizzard of '79, '79 would be the earliest. I *think* the article was in '81 though.

FielderJones
05-29-2009, 04:17 PM
52,712 (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/576171692.html?dids=576171692:576171692&FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&date=Jun+26%2C+1964&author=&pub=Chicago+Tribune&desc=52%2C712+SEE+WHITE+SOX+ROUT+CUBS%2C+11-1&pqatl=google)

52,712 SEE WHITE SOX ROUT CUBS, 11-1
3 HOMERS IN ROW SPARK 6 TALLIES IN 3D Banks Hits for Circuit in 6th 52,712 See Sox Batter Cubs, 11-1

Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file) - Chicago, Ill.
Author: EDWARD PRELL Date: Jun 26, 1964 Start Page: C1 Pages: 3 Section: 3 Text Word Count: 965Interesting that they called hitting for the cycle "hitting for the circuit" in 1964.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2009, 06:19 PM
And here's one more:

June 25, 1964 - An overflow crowd of over 52 thousand, jam Comiskey Park to watch the Sox hammer the Cubs 11 - 1 in the annual Boys Benefit Game. What’s significant however is the fact that fans were allowed on the outfield grass behind ropes, since there wasn’t any room left in the park. It’s the last time fans have ever been permitted to stand on the playing field for a game.


Lip

Brian26
05-29-2009, 06:31 PM
If it was "the 70s", it was no earlier than '79. I remember reading a Sun-Times article about how Jane Byrne pushed to bring the Crosstown Classic back. Since she was elected after the blizzard of '79, '79 would be the earliest. I *think* the article was in '81 though.

Before '85, the last two games were in '81 during the strike. Two games were played. The Cubs won the first game, and the second game ended in a tie.

Dick Allen
05-29-2009, 06:33 PM
Interesting that they called hitting for the cycle "hitting for the circuit" in 1964.Actually, that was referring to a HR, not the cycle.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2009, 06:38 PM
And here's one more:

June 25, 1964 - An overflow crowd of over 52 thousand, jam Comiskey Park to watch the Sox hammer the Cubs 11 - 1 in the annual Boys Benefit Game. What’s significant however is the fact that fans were allowed on the outfield grass behind ropes, since there wasn’t any room left in the park. It’s the last time fans have ever been permitted to stand on the playing field for a game.


Lip

Since I was at that game and many other capacity crowds at the old park it always puzzled me that 55,555 showed up for a DH against the Twins in 73, there was no way that there were more fans at that DH than the 64 benefit game.

Nellie_Fox
05-30-2009, 12:48 AM
Harmon Killabrew hit the hardest hit baseball I ever saw hit at Comiskey (including roof shots) in mid-late 60s, a line drive off the scoreboard that had no arc.
It is physically impossible to hit a ball with no arc. It has arc from the moment it leaves the bat; gravity guarantees it.

The hardest hit ball I ever saw at Comiskey was a center-field bleacher shot from Dick Allen.

TDog
05-30-2009, 01:04 AM
It is physically impossible to hit a ball with no arc. It has arc from the moment it leaves the bat; gravity guarantees it.

The hardest hit ball I ever saw at Comiskey was a center-field bleacher shot from Dick Allen.

I am reminded of Gravity's Rainbow.

It wasn't during a game, but when Ron Kittle tried out for the White Sox before a game at Old Comiskey, he hit a line drive through one of the archway openings behind the leftfield seats. There is no record of that being done in a game by anyone.

I was unaware that Harmon Killebrew hit a ball into the centerfield bleachers in the old park. Watching television, I saw Dick Allen and Alex Johnson do it. But I know of no one who hit the scoreboard.

StillMissOzzie
05-30-2009, 01:12 AM
Somewhere in this disaster area, there is a SGA plastic cup I got from a Crosstown Classic game I attended that feature cartoonish caricatures of Jim Frey and Tony LaRussa. Neither manager finished the year with their team.

SMO
:gulp:

Nellie_Fox
05-30-2009, 01:16 AM
... But I know of no one who hit the scoreboard.Supposedly, Elston Howard once hit one over the catwalk between the scoreboard and the left-field upper deck at old Comiskey. I didn't see it and can't attest to it.

Lip Man 1
05-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Nell:

I was at the DH in 73. It was Bat Day and they had the catwalks that connected the left and right field bleachers with the center field scoreboard area filled with standing room only fans.

I have never seen a Sox game with that many people.

May 20, 1973 - A Sunday afternoon bat day double header with the Twins brings the largest crowd out to ever see a game in Comiskey Park. 55,555 pack into the stadium filling every single inch of it, including standing on the catwalks that connected the left and right field bleachers with the center field scoreboard area. To his dying day, Bill Veeck refused to believe that figure was accurate. I attended this game and never saw the park as filled! The Sox split the pair of games.

LITTLE NELL
05-30-2009, 02:01 PM
Lip, I remember watching the DH on TV and I agree that it was the largest crowd for a regular season game that I ever saw at Comiskey but I tend to agree with Veeck that the 55,555 was inflated.
P.S. I'm not a White Sox historian but I will bet a dollar to a doughnut that no player has ever hit the CF scoreboard at old Comiskey, in fact I might bet more than that.

Brian26
05-30-2009, 04:23 PM
I was unaware that Harmon Killebrew hit a ball into the centerfield bleachers in the old park. Watching television, I saw Dick Allen and Alex Johnson do it.

The last guy I remember doing it was Tony Armas when he was with the A's in the mid 80's.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2009, 09:10 PM
According to the Sox media guide the following hit balls into the center field bleachers at Comiskey Park

Jimmy Foxx-1934
Hank Greenberg-1938
Alex Johnson-1970
Dick Allen-1972
Richie Zisk-1977
Tony Armas-1984
George Bell-1985

I was at the Allen game and was sitting about ten feet or so from where the ball landed. For the radio audio of that blast, here is the link. Simply look for August 23, 1972 and click on LET ME HEAR IT.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=14&id=2361

Lip

TommyJohn
05-31-2009, 09:30 PM
According to the Sox media guide the following hit balls into the center field bleachers at Comiskey Park

Jimmy Foxx-1934
Hank Greenberg-1938
Alex Johnson-1970
Dick Allen-1972
Richie Zisk-1977
Tony Armas-1984
George Bell-1985

I was at the Allen game and was sitting about ten feet or so from where the ball landed. For the radio audio of that blast, here is the link. Simply look for August 23, 1972 and click on LET ME HEAR IT.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=14&id=2361

Lip

An interesting note Lip: The new book "White Sox Journal" by John Snyder identifies you as the fan who caught the ball and was interviewed by Harry Caray. I don't know how he made that error.

I can't catch the name of the fan who caught it, but sounded like Tim or Jim Kirk.

TDog
05-31-2009, 10:00 PM
... To his dying day, Bill Veeck refused to believe that figure was accurate. I attended this game and never saw the park as filled! The Sox split the pair of games.


I remember Veeck saying he didn't know how you could fit 55,555 into the old park. I'm not sure what motivation a team with financial issues would have in inflating paid attendance. In those days the visiting team got a percentage of the gate.

Veeck may have been right, but he also said it was impossible for the White Sox or any Chicago team to draw 2 million fans. Of course, after the Reinsdorf group bought the White Sox, the team drew 2 million, and the next year the Cubs drew 2 million, and today people will tell you the Cubs have always drawn 3 million.

LITTLE NELL
06-01-2009, 05:26 AM
I remember Veeck saying he didn't know how you could fit 55,555 into the old park. I'm not sure what motivation a team with financial issues would have in inflating paid attendance. In those days the visiting team got a percentage of the gate.

Veeck may have been right, but he also said it was impossible for the White Sox or any Chicago team to draw 2 million fans. Of course, after the Reinsdorf group bought the White Sox, the team drew 2 million, and the next year the Cubs drew 2 million, and today people will tell you the Cubs have always drawn 3 million.
My thoery on the inlated crowd figure; a few short years before the Sox almost moved to Seattle and had terrible teams and were drawing 3,000 fans a game. The Cubs were in the pennant race every year and were the darlings of the media and the city(things never change), they were drawing huge crowds for the first time in years. In 73 the Sox were off to a great start after a pennant run in 72 and were running neck and neck in attendance for the first time in 5 years. My take is that the Sox were making a statement that they were relavent again and 55,555 was a nice number at that time. Like I said before I was at the 64 boys benefit game and fans were standing on the warning track and sitting in the aisles and standing on the ramps and the attendance was 52,000, I have no idea how 3,000 more fans could fit in the old ballpark.

ode to veeck
06-02-2009, 01:09 PM
It is physically impossible to hit a ball with no arc. It has arc from the moment it leaves the bat; gravity guarantees it.

The hardest hit ball I ever saw at Comiskey was a center-field bleacher shot from Dick Allen.

Of course it is impossible, in realtive terms though, the ball appeared to have no arc just like the next 4 hardest hit balls I ever saw (all by Dick Allen). The Kittle and Ludzinski roofers I saw had plenty of visible arc and were not hit as hard.

TDog
06-02-2009, 02:35 PM
... Like I said before I was at the 64 boys benefit game and fans were standing on the warning track and sitting in the aisles and standing on the ramps and the attendance was 52,000, I have no idea how 3,000 more fans could fit in the old ballpark.

I may have been at the 1964 game. It might have been 1963, but probably not 1965. I just remember someone my father worked with couldn't go, so I got to see my first baseball game with a small group from Quint Brothers Auto Parts in Hammond. We sat above the bullpen down the third baseline.

I remember the score was White Sox 7, Cubs 2, but I was a near-sighted little kid who didn't have glasses yet. If there were people on the warning track, I wouldn't have seen them.

TommyJohn
06-02-2009, 02:48 PM
I may have been at the 1964 game. It might have been 1963, but probably not 1965. I just remember someone my father worked with couldn't go, so I got to see my first baseball game with a small group from Quint Brothers Auto Parts in Hammond. We sat above the bullpen down the third baseline.

I remember the score was White Sox 7, Cubs 2, but I was a near-sighted little kid who didn't have glasses yet. If there were people on the warning track, I wouldn't have seen them.


I looked it up online-the final score of the 1965 game was 7-2 White Sox. Unfortunately I cannot find the pdf file which had all that info. The 1964 game final was 11-1.

Nelson Foxtrot
06-03-2009, 03:53 AM
All seven CF bleacher shots were hit by righties. Is there any possible reason for this, or just coincidence? I don't know how far Foxx's went, but Greenberg's would have hit the scoreboard if it had been there at the time, according to later accounts by (alleged?) eyewitnesses.

The Sox drew above league average in '77 (1,657,135) and '78 (1,491,100) and were respectable the following two years (all in the midst of bad national economic times), plus Veeck drew over 2.6 million fans in Cleveland in '48, so I don't understand why a Chicago team drawing 2 million seemed impossible to him.

As for the 1973 55,555 bat day game, over 2,000 people who bought tickets got refunds, left, and were not counted. Was this simply due to overcrowding, or were these people who were too late for the limited giveaway and decided to just go home, whereas others figured that since they were at the park already, they might as well stay? The Sox were in 1st by 1.0 game after turning things around the previous year, but such high attendance sounds strongly gimmick-boosted. Was bat day really such an incredible draw in those days?

How often did the Sox/Cubs swap broadcasters for the Windy City Classic? I know there was at least one game in the '90s that featured Harry Caray/Tom Paciorek and (glimpse into the future) Ken Harrelson/Steve Stone. I don't remember if each team worked a different channel, or if they just swapped innings, but I loved the concept, and wish it would be repeated occasionally around baseball. I remember Stone joking beforehand that he was bringing along his Hawk-to-English dictionary. :lol:

TDog
06-03-2009, 04:10 PM
...

The Sox drew above league average in '77 (1,657,135) and '78 (1,491,100) and were respectable the following two years (all in the midst of bad national economic times), plus Veeck drew over 2.6 million fans in Cleveland in '48, so I don't understand why a Chicago team drawing 2 million seemed impossible to him. ...

Cleveland's old stadium seated about 74,000 and two games in the 1948 World Series drew more than 80,000, setting record that stood until the White Sox and Dodgers hooked up in LA in 1959.

Milwaukee, of course, drew well over 2 million in the 1950s. But the 1969 Cubs in 1969 drew about 1.6 million to set a record for the North Side franchise, despite current perceptions.

The weather was a big factor in Veeck's pessimism about drawing in Chicago. In those days, only Boston was allowed to play two games in one day for two admissions, something that is done far too much today because it cheats the fans and screws the players.

The Chicago baseball mentality was another factor. Until 1983, I believe, sometimes up to 20,000 or more tickets went on sale the day of the games both at Comiskey and Wrigley. General admission seats weren't sold in advance. It was the Wrigley philosophy thatthe team should leave plenty of room for walkups. At Comiskey, you couldn't buy seats in fear territory or deepunder the lower deck stands in advance when I was a kid. And all the home games for both teams were televised, so if the weather wasn't to your liking, you could watch the game from home.

Veeck didn't dare change any of that, even if people do consider him visionary.

I want Mags back
06-03-2009, 04:36 PM
April 29, 1985 - A new yearly tradition is established in the first annual "Crosstown Classic" charity game matching the Sox and Cubs. Down through the years both teams played each other on and off in spring training or during an open date in the regular season. This is the first time both teams agree to play on a yearly basis with a corporate sponsor (Busch Beer). The game alternates between Comiskey Park and Wrigley Field and is played every year through 1995 (Because of the labor impasse the teams played two games that season.) The Sox win the opener at Comiskey Park 7 - 4 but it’s only the start of a remarkable run. The two teams play a total of 12 games and the Sox never lose!!!!! They go 10 - 0 - 2 during that time period. After 1995, the series is dropped. It’s never publicly explained why, but reports persisted that the cancellation of the series was at the Cubs request.
:rolleyes: How about the fact that Interleague started in '97.

Nellie_Fox
06-04-2009, 12:55 AM
:rolleyes: How about the fact that Interleague started in '97.How about the fact that they didn't know that in '95, Mr. Rolleyes?