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EuroSox35
05-22-2009, 06:15 PM
Heard some ESPN1000 today. Levine said Beckham played 2B last night and is playing 3B tonight, and he wouldn't be surprised if about a week-10 days of good play would be all it took to get him up here, just passing it along

fuzzy_patters
05-22-2009, 06:29 PM
Interesting. KW is obviously looking to make moves right now. I wonder if he might move Getz or Fields as part of a trade package if Beckham is ready.

WhiteSox1989
05-22-2009, 06:57 PM
I REALLY like Getz.

guillensdisciple
05-22-2009, 07:15 PM
I REALLY like Getz.


Why?

Daver
05-22-2009, 07:42 PM
Heard some ESPN1000 today. Levine said Beckham played 2B last night and is playing 3B tonight, and he wouldn't be surprised if about a week-10 days of good play would be all it took to get him up here, just passing it along

It is important to continue the long history the Sox have of rushing prospects to the MLB level just to watch them fail.

tm1119
05-22-2009, 07:58 PM
Interesting. KW is obviously looking to make moves right now. I wonder if he might move Getz or Fields as part of a trade package if Beckham is ready.

No body wants either. Beckham is being prepared because neither of them are hitting.
With that said, I really dont see the point of rushing him this early. Does Kenny expect him to be a savior for this team or something? Unless he can play 2b, 3b, and CF (and maybe ss too) all at the same time this team isnt going to change much.

khan
05-22-2009, 08:07 PM
No body wants either. Beckham is being prepared because neither of them are hitting.
With that said, I really dont see the point of rushing him this early. Does Kenny expect him to be a savior for this team or something? Unless he can play 2b, 3b, and CF (and maybe ss too) all at the same time this team isnt going to change much.

Yeah, no ****. Why not let Buddy Bell and his merry crew of roving instructors actually do their jobs, and let this kid develop at his own pace? I'd rather let him learn what he needs to learn, so as to become a STAR, rather than rush him up, so that he can become a middling nobody.

...
05-22-2009, 08:14 PM
Yeah, no ****. Why not let Buddy Bell and his merry crew of roving instructors actually do their jobs, and let this kid develop at his own pace? I'd rather let him learn what he needs to learn, so as to become a STAR, rather than rush him up, so that he can become a middling nobody.

How do you know he has not already learned "what he needs to know?"
Different personality types require different learning techniques. Some people learn better "on the job." Could Beckham learn on the job? Why not trust the Sox personnel in their decision making?

...
05-22-2009, 08:15 PM
It is important to continue the long history the Sox have of rushing prospects to the MLB level just to watch them fail.

yawn

spawn
05-22-2009, 08:26 PM
It is important to continue the long history the Sox have of rushing prospects to the MLB level just to watch them fail.

yawn
He's right. :shrug:

No way should Beckham be called up this year.

khan
05-22-2009, 08:28 PM
How do you know he has not already learned "what he needs to know?"
It does not appear as though he has done so hereto fore, particularly with respect to his defense. Moreover, if he is going to change positions, he may require more time. How do you know that he HAS already learned "what he needs to know?"

Different personality types require different learning techniques. Some people learn better "on the job."
Indeed.

Could Beckham learn on the job?
Sure. He could also crap his pants once he gets up to Chicago. Why start the arbitration clock, and bring up a kid who has not been considered a finished product by most observers? Why bring him up when the season is not yet lost?

Why not trust the Sox personnel in their decision making?
While past performance is no indication of future results, the track record has not given them the benefit of the doubt. Why SHOULD we trust the Sox personnel in their decision making? Who has this group drafted and groomed to become a success with the big club? Moreover, what player have they drafted, groomed, and brought up to become a success with the Sox, all in less than a years' time from the time he was drafted until he reached the big club?


I thank you in advance for your [hopefully] well-reasoned responses.

...
05-22-2009, 08:36 PM
It does not appear as though he has done so hereto fore, particularly with respect to his defense. Moreover, if he is going to change positions, he may require more time. How do you know that he HAS already learned "what he needs to know?"


I don't know. Ask the personnel who are collectively paid millions of dollars the make these decisions.



Sure. He could also crap his pants once he gets up to Chicago. Why start the arbitration clock, and bring up a kid who has not been considered a finished product by most observers? Why bring him up when the season is not yet lost?

I don't know. Ask the personnel who are collectively paid millions of dollars the make these decisions.


While past performance is no indication of future results, the track record has not given them the benefit of the doubt. Why SHOULD we trust the Sox personnel in their decision making? Who has this group drafted and groomed to become a success with the big club? Moreover, what player have they drafted, groomed, and brought up to become a success with the Sox, all in less than a years' time?


I thank you in advance for your [hopefully] well-reasoned response.

No one. The "group" was put together over the last year.

khan
05-22-2009, 08:41 PM
I don't know. Ask the personnel who are collectively paid millions of dollars the make these decisions.

I don't know. Ask the personnel who are collectively paid millions of dollars the make these decisions.
You're surprisingly-adamant about bringing Beckham up and attacking others here, despite you "not knowing."

No one. The "group" was put together over the last year.
Thank you for agreeing with me.

There are very few draftees that make their MLB debuts, and go onto great successes within a year of being drafted. The overwhelming majority of decades of MLB drafting history suggest that Beckham and the SOX would be better-served with him spending a bit more time in the minors.

...
05-22-2009, 08:49 PM
You're surprisingly-adamant about bringing Beckham up and attacking others here, despite you "not knowing."

Thank you for agreeing with me.

There are very few draftees that make their MLB debuts, and go onto great successes within a year of being drafted. The overwhelming majority of decades of MLB drafting history suggest that Beckham and the SOX would be better-served with him spending a bit more time in the minors.

I've said all I need to say. Let's hear your Gordon Beckham scouting report. Please do leave out the generalizations and stereotypes already covered in this thread.


My point is, none of us "know." I don't know, you don't know and Daver especially doesn't know. :cool:

The Sox entire minor league organization has been revamped in terms of personnel and philosophy. Let's give these guys a shot at making the decisions they're paid to make.

Daver
05-22-2009, 08:49 PM
yawn

Yeah, rushing players worked so well with Kip Wells, Jon Rauch, Joe Borchard, Mike Caruso, Mark Johnson, Danny Wright, Matt Guerrier, and Rod Bolton, to name a few. And then there is that one guy that they actually left in the minors to develop, he turned out to be a pretty good player, Joe Crede should have been the MVP of the 2005 World Series.

LITTLE NELL
05-22-2009, 08:50 PM
One thing to remember is Beckham spent 4 years playing college ball, its not like he's just out of high school. He just might be ready. That being said I would like it that he spend the year in Birmingham, especially if this team continues to flounder.

Daver
05-22-2009, 08:52 PM
One thing to remember is Beckham spent 4 years playing college ball, its not like he's just out of high school. He just might be ready. That being said I would like it that he spend the year in Birmingham, especially if this team continues to flounder.

The difference between college ball and pro ball is night and day, it is easy to rack up numbers facing walk-ons pitching college games.

Brian26
05-22-2009, 08:52 PM
It is important to continue the long history the Sox have of rushing prospects to the MLB level just to watch them fail.

How many years of minor league ball do you think a kid should play after four years of college before he's ready? Or does it vary?

I'm trying to remember back to Ventura's situation. The Sox drafted him in the summer of '88. I don't recall if he played any Fall/Winter ball, but he played most of '89 at Double A then came up at the end of the year, then of course started on the big club in '90.

Hypothetically, if Beckham came up on June 1, he'd be three months ahead of Ventura's schedule.

...
05-22-2009, 08:52 PM
Yeah, rushing players worked so well with Kip Wells, Jon Rauch, Joe Borchard, Mike Caruso, Mark Johnson, Danny Wright, Matt Guerrier, and Rod Bolton, to name a few. And then there is that one guy that they actually left in the minors to develop, he turned out to be a pretty good player, Joe Crede should have been the MVP of the 2005 World Series.

While you're absolutely correct about the aforementioned players, this is an entirely new minor league organizations in terms of personnel and philosophy. Have we any reason to not trust their judgment?

...
05-22-2009, 08:54 PM
The difference between college ball and pro ball is night and day, it is easy to rack up numbers facing walk-ons pitching college games.

Shouldn't matter because the numbers would be proportionate against all said "walk ons."

khan
05-22-2009, 08:55 PM
My point is, none of us "know." I don't know, you don't know and Daver especially doesn't know. :cool:
Nothing quite like bringing up a player that you don't know about, right? Hell, why even have ANY draftee waste a nanosecond in the minors, right? [That DOES seem to be your position, after all...]

From my view, there is little, if ANYTHING to be gained by bringing Beckham up this season. On the other hand, there is MUCH that could be lost if he is rushed up. Again, decades of MLB drafting history are on the side of Beckham spending more time in the minors, irrespective of the prospect, the instructors/instruction, or the organization.

The Sox entire minor league organization has been revamped in terms of personnel and philosophy. Let's give these guys a shot at making the decisions they're paid to make.
Agreed. Let's give these guys a shot by enabling them to groom Beckham, rather than rushing him up.

...
05-22-2009, 08:58 PM
Nothing quite like bringing up a player that you don't know about, right? Hell, why even have ANY draftee waste a nanosecond in the minors, right? [That DOES seem to be your position, after all...]

From my view, there is little, if ANYTHING to be gained by bringing Beckham up this season. There is MUCH that could be lost if he is rushed up. Again, decades of MLB drafting history are on the side of Beckham spending more time in the minors, irrespective of the prospect, the instructors/instruction, or the organization.


Agreed. Let's give these guys a shot by enabling them to groom Beckham, rather than rushing him up.

Whatever, you win. What's the point of a debate full of stereotypes and generalizations? Lame at best.

Hitmen77
05-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Heard some ESPN1000 today. Levine said Beckham played 2B last night and is playing 3B tonight, and he wouldn't be surprised if about a week-10 days of good play would be all it took to get him up here, just passing it along

What's the score? :dunno:

khan
05-22-2009, 09:02 PM
How many years of minor league ball do you think a kid should play after four years of college before he's ready? Or does it vary?

I'm trying to remember back to Ventura's situation. The Sox drafted him in the summer of '88. I don't recall if he played any Fall/Winter ball, but he played most of '89 at Double A then came up at the end of the year, then of course started on the big club in '90.

Hypothetically, if Beckham came up on June 1, he'd be three months ahead of Ventura's schedule.

You're referencing the guy who went something like 0 for 45 or something, had 25 or so errors, and was nearly sent right back down his rookie year?

khan
05-22-2009, 09:03 PM
Whatever, you win. What's the point of a debate full of stereotypes and generalizations? Lame at best.
yawn

Brian26
05-22-2009, 09:04 PM
You're referencing the guy who went something like 0 for 45 or something, and had 25 errors, and was nearly sent right back down his rookie year?

Not advocating the move, just using Ventura as a frame of reference. I remember the hitless streak very well.

Daver
05-22-2009, 09:05 PM
How many years of minor league ball do you think a kid should play after four years of college before he's ready? Or does it vary?

I'm trying to remember back to Ventura's situation. The Sox drafted him in the summer of '88. I don't recall if he played any Fall/Winter ball, but he played most of '89 at Double A then came up at the end of the year, then of course started on the big club in '90.

Hypothetically, if Beckham came up on June 1, he'd be three months ahead of Ventura's schedule.

Robin won the job in ST in 1990, facing MLB pitching.

While you're absolutely correct about the aforementioned players, this is an entirely new minor league organizations in terms of personnel and philosophy. Have we any reason to not trust their judgment?

Is it? How do you know that other than what you read in the press releases?

Big D
05-22-2009, 09:05 PM
He's had less than 200 at-bats as a professional. He might be ready, but that's not nearly enough of a sample size to tell. I'd like to see him spend a full season in the minors, to see how he reacts to the slumps that all players inevitably have. His defense hasn't been that great at short either, so I'm not crazy about moving him around the infield every night. I know 2B is considered the easier position, but playing him at third just seems like a knee-jerk reaction to Fields' struggles.

...
05-22-2009, 09:07 PM
:pee yawn

...
05-22-2009, 09:08 PM
yawn

:kermit

1989
05-22-2009, 09:12 PM
The difference between college ball and pro ball is night and day, it is easy to rack up numbers facing walk-ons pitching college games.

In the big ten, perhaps. But not the SEC

...
05-22-2009, 09:13 PM
Is it? How do you know that other than what you read in the press releases?

I have several friends in the organization. Is there something you know that everyone else doesn't? Please do tell!!

Daver
05-22-2009, 09:13 PM
Shouldn't matter because the numbers would be proportionate against all said "walk ons."

What?

I am beginning to think you are posting just to post, because I doubt you know what you are talking about.

...
05-22-2009, 09:15 PM
What?

I am beginning to think you are posting just to post, because I doubt you know what you are talking about.

What? I would never attempt to swindle your job. Honest!

Brian26
05-22-2009, 09:16 PM
I hate to see someone give up in a decent debate.

...
05-22-2009, 09:17 PM
What?

I am beginning to think you are posting just to post, because I doubt you know what you are talking about.


You seriously can't figure it out?

Break it down and tell me where I went wrong.

Daver
05-22-2009, 09:18 PM
In the big ten, perhaps. But not the SEC

All it takes is a look at what athletes are on scholarships and in what sport, most baseball players are on limited scholarships or none at all, there are a lot that are on scholarship for football or basketball, but also play baseball. Very few schools give full scholarships to baseball players.

SoxFan1979
05-22-2009, 09:19 PM
:bandance::bandance::dtroll::dtroll:

Good comeback win for the palehose. 3 out of the last 4 aint bad, so let's keep going with this.

tm1119
05-22-2009, 09:20 PM
The difference between college ball and pro ball is night and day, it is easy to rack up numbers facing walk-ons pitching college games.

Obviously there is no formula to equate this, but I would think playing 4 years in the SEC has to be pretty similar to playing a couple years of A ball. The SEC is probably the best conference in the sport, and he certainly faced some MLB quality stuff in those years.

...
05-22-2009, 09:26 PM
What?

I am beginning to think you are posting just to post, because I doubt you know what you are talking about.

C'mon, proportionate! You can do it!

PalehosePlanet
05-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Robin won the job in ST in 1990, facing MLB pitching.



Is it? How do you know that other than what you read in the press releases?

Using this same philsophy, then Beckham rightfully should have won the job this past ST because he excelled facing major league pitching.

sox1970
05-22-2009, 09:41 PM
Using this same philsophy, then Beckham rightfully should have won the job this past ST because he excelled facing major league pitching.

For a couple weeks, and then he hit hard times.

Here's my take:
--Don't read into it that he's playing other positions. He was just giving Retherford and Viciedo a game off. They had a doubleheader today. If it keeps happening, then maybe you can read something into it.

--I'm not concerned he's coming up anytime soon. He will stay at AA at least until the All-Star break. Not a day before. I would be shocked if that happened.

--THEY WILL NOT RUSH THIS GUY. When he comes up, that's it. He's here for years.

PalehosePlanet
05-22-2009, 09:52 PM
For a couple weeks, and then he hit hard times.

Here's my take:
--Don't read into it that he's playing other positions. He was just giving Retherford and Viciedo a game off. They had a doubleheader today. If it keeps happening, then maybe you can read something into it.

--I'm not concerned he's coming up anytime soon. He will stay at AA at least until the All-Star break. Not a day before. I would be shocked if that happened.

--THEY WILL NOT RUSH THIS GUY. When he comes up, that's it. He's here for years.

I was merely saying that I personally do not take too much stock in ST stats.

I'm in agreement with you that there is no need to rush him. However, I also see the validity in the arguement that he could be a special player and get his seasoning in the bigs without falling on his face.

TDog
05-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Yeah, rushing players worked so well with Kip Wells, Jon Rauch, Joe Borchard, Mike Caruso, Mark Johnson, Danny Wright, Matt Guerrier, and Rod Bolton, to name a few. And then there is that one guy that they actually left in the minors to develop, he turned out to be a pretty good player, Joe Crede should have been the MVP of the 2005 World Series.

I agree with you, but, of course, Joe Crede wasn't developed as a hitter when he came up to the Sox. Greg Walker worked hard with him for a couple of seasons before he blossomed as a hitter in 2005 season.

Any scenario that involves trading Josh Fields, though, has its advantages. Even if Fields develops into a better hitter than I believe he ever will be, the White Sox need someone who can play a strong third base.

gobears1987
05-22-2009, 10:22 PM
How many years of minor league ball do you think a kid should play after four years of college before he's ready? Or does it vary?

I'm trying to remember back to Ventura's situation. The Sox drafted him in the summer of '88. I don't recall if he played any Fall/Winter ball, but he played most of '89 at Double A then came up at the end of the year, then of course started on the big club in '90.

Hypothetically, if Beckham came up on June 1, he'd be three months ahead of Ventura's schedule.
How about Frank? He played 3 years at Auburn and was up pretty quickly.

LoveYourSuit
05-22-2009, 10:25 PM
If he gets here, based on his make up, he will be fine. And even if he struggles, he looks like the kind of kid who will not get down on himself for tasting failure.

Boondock Saint
05-22-2009, 10:25 PM
How about Frank? He played 3 years at Auburn and was up pretty quickly.

Frank was one hell of a special player.

DumpJerry
05-22-2009, 10:31 PM
The difference between college ball and pro ball is night and day, it is easy to rack up numbers facing walk-ons pitching college games.
True. Also there is the issue of metal bats.

Sockinchisox
05-22-2009, 11:25 PM
Beckham has been playing Short, 2nd, and 3rd in the minors lately. It's because KW isn't happy with the production from any of those positions, and hinted that Beckham may be taking over at one of those positions.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-23-sox-bitsmay23,0,554515.story

whitesox_09
05-22-2009, 11:32 PM
Admittedly, I did not read the link but my gut tells me this is KW just making a comment to get in the press to make up for the Peavy debacle. I don't think it helps Beckham or the team to bring him up anytime soon. Who does he replace? None of the infield is playing well. None. That being said, I doubt he would do any better. Why put him in such a position?

SoxGirl4Life
05-22-2009, 11:34 PM
Admittedly, I did not read the link but my gut tells me this is KW just making a comment to get in the press to make up for the Peavy debacle. I don't think it helps Beckham or the team to bring him up anytime soon. Who does he replace? None of the infield is playing well. None. That being said, I doubt he would do any better. Why put him in such a position?

Give it a rest already. That's the most paranoid thing I've read. That's saying something here at WSI lately.

whitesox_09
05-22-2009, 11:49 PM
I don't understand the "paranoia" statement. People think that this kid will be a savior when most likely his impact, even in the best case scenario, will be marginal at best. This team needs pitching, period. You could add Arod to the line up and the team would not be much better. (To be specific, I mean Arod on a full 'roid cycle)

palehozenychicty
05-22-2009, 11:51 PM
They need to leave this guy alone until '10. Just my opinion.

Tragg
05-23-2009, 12:39 AM
2nd, 3rd and ss. Maybe they can turn Beckham into an utility infielder for Ozzie.

DumpJerry
05-23-2009, 12:57 AM
Admittedly, I did not read the link but my gut tells me this is KW just making a comment to get in the press to make up for the Peavy debacle.
Debacle? How was that a debacle? If every failed trade attempt is a debacle, then all 30 GMs have one of those on their hands. 99% of failed trades do not make it to the media, so we never hear about them.

CashMan
05-23-2009, 12:57 AM
2nd, 3rd and ss. Maybe they can turn Beckham into an utility infielder for Ozzie.


Why would you want him sitting the bench?

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-23-2009, 02:29 AM
Should Beckham stay in the minors till next year, yeah probably, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to have him on this team in a few months. I'm sure the Sox would send to to Triple-A before calling him up to the MLB team. Beckham seemed good in ST this year, not that this means he'll do good right now, but he looked like he could adjust to any challenges he might face. I have alot of faith in him that he would end up ok if he was called up this year, though I would like to see him spend the rest of this year in the minors.

Frater Perdurabo
05-23-2009, 06:39 AM
I would prefer not to rush him to the majors. But what if he's really ready? Four years of college ball, and didn't he perform well in the Cape Cod (wood bat) league last summer?

With Alexei heating up and BA at least hitting his weight, I'd like Beckam at third. That would give us plus defense at SS, CF and 3B, which would help our pitchers record more outs. Either Getz or Nix is fine with me at 2B.

wilburaga
05-23-2009, 08:08 AM
Yeah, rushing players worked so well with Kip Wells, Jon Rauch, Joe Borchard, Mike Caruso, Mark Johnson, Danny Wright, Matt Guerrier, and Rod Bolton, to name a few. And then there is that one guy that they actually left in the minors to develop, he turned out to be a pretty good player, Joe Crede should have been the MVP of the 2005 World Series.

Guerrier never pitched an inning for the White Sox so I don't see how you can claim he was 'rushed'.

Bolton and Johnson just didn't have enough talent.

Rauch was Minor League player of the year before he was brought up. What was he supposed to gain with more time at the minor league level? The dude just spit the bit.

Wright had some middling success when brought up, then got hurt, and his career tanked. Stuff happens.

Wells, you may have a point. I think the Sox handled him OK, he just didn't cut it. Still in the Show, though, got an LP for the Nats last night.

Caruso, I agree, was rushed.

W

voodoochile
05-23-2009, 10:05 AM
Should Beckham stay in the minors till next year, yeah probably, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to have him on this team in a few months. I'm sure the Sox would send to to Triple-A before calling him up to the MLB team. Beckham seemed good in ST this year, not that this means he'll do good right now, but he looked like he could adjust to any challenges he might face. I have alot of faith in him that he would end up ok if he was called up this year, though I would like to see him spend the rest of this year in the minors.

Actually, it's not uncommon for the Sox to skip AAA for top position prospects because Charlotte has a tiny stadium and offensive numbers tend to be out of whack there...

wealz07
05-23-2009, 10:05 AM
Players that aren't rushed to the majors fail too. It's easy to say "this guy failed because they rushed him" because no one can properly define what "rushed" is.

Beckham isn't Joe Borchard. Borchard was a football player who couldn't make contact at any level he played. To say Borchard was rushed is silly, he had 1,800 minor League AB's before he had a 100 big league AB's.

By comparison, Beckham is closer to Ventura than he is Borchard and by the time he was 23 Ventura had 1,100 big league AB's.

voodoochile
05-23-2009, 10:06 AM
Guerrier never pitched an inning for the White Sox so I don't see how you can claim he was 'rushed'.

Bolton and Johnson just didn't have enough talent.

Rauch was Minor League player of the year before he was brought up. What was he supposed to gain with more time at the minor league level? The dude just spit the bit.

Wright had some middling success when brought up, then got hurt, and his career tanked. Stuff happens.

Wells, you may have a point. I think the Sox handled him OK, he just didn't cut it. Still in the Show, though, got an LP for the Nats last night.

Caruso, I agree, was rushed.

W

Caruso was a stoner who spent the off season between his first and second year trying to open a jar of peanut butter (Thanks, IAC). He returned to the Sox no stronger or even physically ready to play, IIRC and proceeded to tank the season.

DonnieDarko
05-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Garcia was/is a stoner, and I get this sneaking suspicion that Garland and perhaps Buerhle are too. Though yeah, it looks like they didn't let it get in the way of their careers. Hopefully.

whitesox_09
05-23-2009, 11:09 AM
The thing is I don't think Beckham will fail. I think he can be an excellent ball player right away. That being said, this team has so many issues that it will not improve the team very much. I think the best opportunity to make the team better is let fields, getz and nix play and cross our fingers they develop. If one or two of them show some real promise, then you can move one of them for a pitcher, plug beckham in next year and the team has a better long-term shot.

Brian26
05-23-2009, 11:18 AM
Garcia was/is a stoner, and I get this sneaking suspicion that Garland and perhaps Buerhle are too.

None of us know what any of these guys do on their own time. The entire team could be stoners, and then again none of them could be.

I'd say let it go before making any gross assumptions because someone is from California or because they look "laid back."

DonnieDarko
05-23-2009, 11:20 AM
I'd say let it go before making any gross assumptions because someone is from California or because they look "laid back."

Sorry, I was half-joking when I said that. What's the color for that? O_o

But yeah, I don't know what they do in their off time, and I really don't care. But I think it would be cool if they were stoners, though. :tongue:

Brian26
05-23-2009, 11:29 AM
To say Borchard was rushed is silly, he had 1,800 minor League AB's before he had a 100 big league AB's.

Borchard was called up in September of '02 and basically given a starting job in the outfield since our CF spot was wide open with Lofton gone and Rowand struggling. On the days he didn't play CF, he played LF or RF to give CLee or Mags a rest. This was the time that "Light Tower Power" originated after his mammoth homer at Skydome. It looked like he had a chance to be the starting CF in '03.

Then, he bombed in Spring Training of '03, but the Sox brought him back in May and gave him the job again when Rowand was struggling and before they traded for Carl Everett. He bombed again.

Everett left for the Expos after the season, and Borchard had another chance at the starting CF job in '04. Between injuries and poor play early in the year, he didn't get a chance at the big club. Finally, in July when Mags went down, he got called up again, and this is when he racked up his 100th at bat.

So, he had four legitimate shots with the big club before he notched his 100th MLB at-bat. It's a bit deceiving. I think he was definitely rushed in '02 and '03. He simply wasn't ready. By the time '04 came around, he should have been more than ready, but he wasn't.

mzh
05-23-2009, 04:12 PM
Caruso, I agree, was rushed.

Even if Caruso was rushed, he still hit .306/5/55/22 SB in 136 games his rookie year, so there was a reason to keep him up.

Harry Chappas
05-23-2009, 10:35 PM
I can't think of a single prospect that the Sox supposedly "rushed" who was irrepairably harmed by the decision. Most listed here - like Rauch - were simply mediocre. The only issue I have is that their middling talent was exposed when they were brought up and thus, hurt their trade value.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the Sox staff will make the best decision for the club. They are paid professionals and surely won't make a knee-jerk decision that jeopardizes Beckham's development.

Furthermore, before we start piling on the team, let's stop and consider the source. This is pure speculation on Levine's part, based on Beckham playing a game or two at other positions.

salty99
05-23-2009, 10:58 PM
I chalk it up more to poor scouting and talent evaluation then rushing guys to the big leagues.

GoSox2K3
05-23-2009, 11:17 PM
I chalk it up more to poor scouting and talent evaluation then rushing guys to the big leagues.

So, it was poor scouting/talent eval first and then rushing these guys to the big leagues that each lead past Sox prospects to fail? :scratch:

Jerksticks
05-24-2009, 02:18 AM
So, it was poor scouting/talent eval first and then rushing these guys to the big leagues that each lead past Sox prospects to fail? :scratch:

That's kinda funny; nice. I also agree that each one of these failed players just wasn't very good at baseball. Magglio, CLee, Crede, and Rowand, on the other hand, all turned out to be pretty good players in the same system. If he is destined for stardom, then Beckham will figure it out, in Birmingham or up here.

Quit all this presuming; gettin creepy.

russ99
05-24-2009, 11:01 AM
I'd like to see the Sox wait until September to bring him up.

By then, we'll know if any of our three 2B options are major league quality and if Fields can hack it at 3B. IMO, it's too early to make those judgments now.

Plus, Beckham will get the benefit of a full season at AA, and potentially AAA before too much longer.