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View Full Version : Kenny: Get on the phone w/ AZ and get us Webb!


WhiteSoxFan84
05-22-2009, 02:04 PM
First, I want to say that I was very, VERY impressed and happy with Kenny's aggressiveness with the Jake trade. Second, Jake is a little child who only wants it his way (still says he'll only accept a deal to the four teams he originally listed). But that's the luxury you get with a full no-trade so I can't be too mad at him. Then again... yes I can. He was singing in bars after he heard about possibly playing for the Cubs whom also reside in... CHICAGO!, but he wasn't sure about playing just 9 miles south? What a brat.

Now, let's get over what didn't happen and move on. I heard Peter Gammons on "Baseball Tonight" the other night speculating that the Diamondbacks will be cutting payroll. He also mentioned Brandon Webb as one of the first guys to go. I think the package we offered San Diego for Jake (and I'm only calling him by his first name because that is how you speak to children) should be more than enough for Webb. We might even be able to keep Clayton Richard and just give them Poreda + the other 2 pieces. Probably not, but who knows?

What do you guys think of a Buehrle/Webb/Danks/Floyd 1-4 for a few years to come? And how possible is this?

DumpJerry
05-22-2009, 02:09 PM
First of all, Mr. Peavy did us a huge favor yesterday when he said no. He would have been lit up every day at Comiskey-he's a fly-ball pitcher.

Secondly, haven't we had enough of National League pitchers trying to play in the American League? Peavy knows it does not work, we should, too. Think of Javy.......

DaveFeelsRight
05-22-2009, 02:09 PM
Webb won't be back until june

soxpride724
05-22-2009, 02:10 PM
I would take Webb without a doubt.

Make sure he has no problems playing in the American League first.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-22-2009, 02:15 PM
Webb won't be back until june

As long as it's June of '09, I don't care. I'm thinking about 2010 and beyond. IMO, this season is the mainly farewell season for Dye, Thome, Contreras, and Dotel, and an introduction to Getz, Fields (first full season), and whoever else they bring up. I'll still go to as many games as possible this year (attending my 4th this Sunday and that is a lot for me) but I don't expect much more than 80 wins.

And isn't June less than 2 weeks away?

kittle42
05-22-2009, 02:17 PM
Webb won't be back until june

And he probably won't be traded til July. But I agree with OP, no time like the present to get things moving.

Webb is only signed through 2010. Just posting for info's sake.

Chicken Dinner
05-22-2009, 02:23 PM
I think I would rather have Danny Haren.

SoxGirl4Life
05-22-2009, 02:28 PM
I think I would rather have Danny Haren.

Agreed.

Konerko05
05-22-2009, 02:32 PM
I think I would rather have Danny Haren.

Of course. Haren is an absolute stud, but I highly doubt he's going anywhere. He's signed through 2012 with a fairly cheap contract.

SoxGirl4Life
05-22-2009, 02:34 PM
Of course. Haren is an absolute stud, but I highly doubt he's going anywhere. He's signed through 2012 with a fairly cheap contract.

And he's proven he can pitch in the AL. But, alas, I didn't know his contract situation. Who does Webb belong to? AZ?

Konerko05
05-22-2009, 02:49 PM
And he's proven he can pitch in the AL. But, alas, I didn't know his contract situation. Who does Webb belong to? AZ?

Yes, Webb is also on Arizona. I believe he is only signed through this season so the DBacks might be looking to unload him. He is also on the DL until June with shoulder problems.

If healthy, I have no question Webb could pitching in the AL and in U.S. Cellular. He is a sinkerball pitcher who can also strike people out. He hasn't allowed over 15 homeruns in the last three years while pitching over 220 innings each year. He is a legitimate front of the line starter.

But do we really want to trade for a couple months of a guy coming off a shoulder injury? I'd rather wait to see if he's healthy and sign him in the offseason.

Edit: He has a club option in 2010.

Whitesoxfan23
05-22-2009, 02:51 PM
If Webb is a Free Agent after 2010, I don't see much of a reason to get him. We would probably get outbid by the Red Sox or Yankees, so it would be a pretty big waste, especially if the Sox continue to free fall.

Chicken Dinner
05-22-2009, 02:54 PM
But do we really want to trade for a couple months of a guy coming off a shoulder injury? I'd rather wait to see if he's healthy and sign him in the offseason.

Edit: He has a club option in 2010.

No, but if the D-backs are looking to cut payroll, Haren would be the choice.

Konerko05
05-22-2009, 02:58 PM
No, but if the D-backs are looking to cut payroll, Haren would be the choice.

I just don't see them trading Haren. He is one of the best pitchers in baseball with a reasonable contract through 2012.

thedudeabides
05-22-2009, 03:15 PM
Keep in mind that the package agreed upon to get Peavy wouldn't land you Webb or Haren. The only reason that package was able to get Peavy is San Diego is in dire need to cut payroll. It was a total salary dump, the ownership situation in San Diego is a horrible mess right now.

Konerko05
05-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Keep in mind that the package agreed upon to get Peavy wouldn't land you Webb or Haren. The only reason that package was able to get Peavy is San Diego is in dire need to cut payroll. It was a total salary dump, the ownership situation in San Diego is a horrible mess right now.

The package would be much closer to acquiring Webb than Haren.

I can't even imagine what kind of demands Arizona would start with for Haren.

thedudeabides
05-22-2009, 03:29 PM
The package would be much closer to acquiring Webb than Haren.

I can't even imagine what kind of demands Arizona would start with for Haren.

Maybe, but there would be quite a few teams trying to get in the Webb sweepstakes, driving up the bidding. Right now, the Sox may be the only team willing to take on the rest of Peavy's contract. It was a rather unique situation.

And I can't imagine what the demands for Haren would be either, but unless we are willing to part with Beckham, I don't think we could land him.

oeo
05-22-2009, 03:29 PM
And he's proven he can pitch in the AL.

He's also a former A's pitcher. History shows you should stay away from those.

FWIW, I don't think that Peavy package would ever net another big time starting pitcher. That's what made the deal so good, IMO. We really were not giving any sure talent up.

Sockinchisox
05-22-2009, 03:32 PM
Although I don't believe we'll get him, Webb would work perfect in our park with his dominant sinker.

Whitesoxfan23
05-22-2009, 03:34 PM
Although I don't believe we'll get him, Webb would work perfect in our park with his dominant sinker.

I think he be great as well, but what would be the point of renting him for half a season, when we know we will probably get out bid in the off-season?

doublem23
05-22-2009, 04:30 PM
First of all, Mr. Peavy did us a huge favor yesterday when he said no. He would have been lit up every day at Comiskey-he's a fly-ball pitcher.

Secondly, haven't we had enough of National League pitchers trying to play in the American League? Peavy knows it does not work, we should, too. Think of Javy.......

No, he's not.

Career GB/FB ratios...

Jose Contreras - .86
Mark Buehrle - .80
Jake Peavy - .74
John Danks - .70
Gavin Floyd - .68

Soxfest
05-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Webb on DL forget it!

Tragg
05-22-2009, 06:05 PM
Secondly, haven't we had enough of National League pitchers trying to play in the American League? Peavy knows it does not work, we should, too. Think of Javy.......
Amen!

russ99
05-22-2009, 10:44 PM
If the rest of the league is being protective of prospects and not willing to take a large salary, then I don't see how the Sox offer (of which we don't know the other two names) wouldn't net us a pretty good pitcher.

But we don't need Peavy, Haren, Webb or the guy I'd love to see with the Sox: Oswalt. We just need a reliable guy who can eat 200+ innings with an ERA under 4.25 that we can slot after Danks in the rotation. I'm sure that dealing some Sox prospects, even with keeping Poreda, can net us one of those.

eastchicagosoxfan
05-22-2009, 10:56 PM
First of all, Mr. Peavy did us a huge favor yesterday when he said no. He would have been lit up every day at Comiskey-he's a fly-ball pitcher.

Secondly, haven't we had enough of National League pitchers trying to play in the American League? Peavy knows it does not work, we should, too. Think of Javy.......
I like the cut of your jib.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-22-2009, 11:16 PM
A few things to keep in mind:

- I didn't mention Haren because he won't be traded. As someone mentioned, he's signed for 3 more years at a very good price.

- Webb is pretty much locked in through 2010. So it wouldn't be a .5 year rental.

- I would hope Kenny would get Webb to sign a 3 or 4 year extension (locking him up until 2013 or 2014) at $15mill per or so. We were willing to commit more to Peavy for the same amount of time. Webb's sinker would be tailor-made for USCF.

- Anyone who thinks getting Peavy would've been a bad move is just trying to make themselves feel better about him not wanting to come here.

Tragg
05-23-2009, 01:36 AM
Sox: Oswalt. We just need a reliable guy who can eat 200+ innings with an ERA under 4.25 that we can slot after Danks in the rotation. I'm sure that dealing some Sox prospects, even with keeping Poreda, can net us one of those.
Yep - and I think he will be shopped.
I'm not so sure he's the paragon of durability that you suggest he is.
But they'll want a Peavy bounty and he's no Peavy and no top of the rotation ace.

scarsofthumper
05-23-2009, 10:41 AM
No, he's not.

Career GB/FB ratios...

Jose Contreras - .86
Mark Buehrle - .80
Jake Peavy - .74
John Danks - .70
Gavin Floyd - .68
I bet if you look at a yearly split Peavy's has gone up.

OmarLittle
05-23-2009, 11:29 AM
First of all, Mr. Peavy did us a huge favor yesterday when he said no. He would have been lit up every day at Comiskey-he's a fly-ball pitcher.

Secondly, haven't we had enough of National League pitchers trying to play in the American League? Peavy knows it does not work, we should, too. Think of Javy.......

That is absolutely ridiculous.

scarsofthumper
05-23-2009, 11:55 AM
http://www.gonrad.com/200905/jakepeavystatisticspitching-fangraphsbaseball_1243094091806.png

Zisk77
05-23-2009, 03:29 PM
He's also a former A's pitcher. History shows you should stay away from those.

FWIW, I don't think that Peavy package would ever net another big time starting pitcher. That's what made the deal so good, IMO. We really were not giving any sure talent up.


Haren, However, came up with the Cardinals and was the centerpiece in the trade for Mulder.

TheVulture
05-23-2009, 04:54 PM
If ever there was a pitcher built for success at the Cell, it is Brandon Webb. Along with a high K rate, his nasty sinker has made him consistently the highest groundball/FO ratio pitcher in the game. He has a career ratio of 2.95/1, which I am pretty sure is the highest active ratio. The league average is 1.04/1. I'd take Webb every day of the week before Peavy or Haren. By comparison, Haren is .80/1. and Peavy .73/1.

TheVulture
05-23-2009, 04:58 PM
No, he's not.

Career GB/FB ratios...

Jose Contreras - .86
Mark Buehrle - .80
Jake Peavy - .74
John Danks - .70
Gavin Floyd - .68


That means for every .74 groundballs, he gives up 1 flyball. Ergo, he is a flyball pitcher.

russ99
05-24-2009, 12:16 PM
Yep - and I think he will be shopped.
I'm not so sure he's the paragon of durability that you suggest he is.
But they'll want a Peavy bounty and he's no Peavy and no top of the rotation ace.

The numbers I quoted weren't for Oswalt, but for a #2 or 3 starter that won't cost as much as an ace, and still shore up the Sox staff.

I beg to differ about Oswalt. I watch the Astros a lot and while Oswalt's numbers are down overall this year so far, he's most certainly a top-of-the rotation ace. I believe he's in the top 3 in wins the last 4 seasons, may even be the leader.

Even though he's a lesser of the two and is also older than Peavy, he's still a top-flight pitcher and signed for 2 more seasons after this year at a below-market contract, with a 2012 option.

He also has a full NTC, and would prefer to stay in Houston, so it would take a lot to pry him away, especially since management has steadfastly refused to sell off any stars and start to rebuild. But the Astros system is very poor in general, and especially so in pitchers, so if you add one of the Birmingham prospects to the 3-4 pitchers from the proposed Peavy deal, that might get it done.

Having said that, I really hope the Sox can hang on to Poreda...

California Sox
05-24-2009, 01:23 PM
Why are we interested in acquiring a pitcher with shoulder trouble? I don't wish it on Webb, but these things often linger. Look at Mark Mulder.

If the Royals start listening to offers for Zack Greinke (which they will have to do this off season or next) go for it. But a pitcher with a bum shoulder? Pass.

DirtySox
05-24-2009, 01:47 PM
Er what? Greinke signed a 4 year deal this spring.

jabrch
05-24-2009, 02:42 PM
If the Royals start listening to offers for Zack Greinke (which they will have to do this off season or next) go for it. But a pitcher with a bum shoulder? Pass.

Why will they have to? They can easily afford him given their lack of high priced players.

Tragg
05-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Even though he's a lesser of the two and is also older than Peavy, he's still a top-flight pitcher and signed for 2 more seasons after this year at a below-market contract, with a 2012 option.

He also has a full NTC, and would prefer to stay in Houston, so it would take a lot to pry him away, especially since management has steadfastly refused to sell off any stars and start to rebuild. But the Astros system is very poor in general, and especially so in pitchers, so if you add one of the Birmingham prospects to the 3-4 pitchers from the proposed Peavy deal, that might get it done.

Having said that, I really hope the Sox can hang on to Poreda...
One side note - the price paid to Houston has nothing to do with him waiving or not waiving a NTC.
He's been a very good pitcher; but he's been hard used and he's 32. Giving up a lot of young talent for him just isn't a good idea, imo. Now it's better than piling on to get a fraud like Bedard or Burnett.
The Sox have a lot of holes.
I'd much rather see the Sox trade someone to bring in the players to plug some holes.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-01-2009, 12:45 AM
Why are we interested in acquiring a pitcher with shoulder trouble? I don't wish it on Webb, but these things often linger. Look at Mark Mulder.

If the Royals start listening to offers for Zack Greinke (which they will have to do this off season or next) go for it. But a pitcher with a bum shoulder? Pass.

A couple of swings and misses in this post. The Greinke suggestion has already been shot down. Time to kill the "bum shoulder" theory; he has averaged 227 IP per year for the last 5 years and is only 30 years old. You can argue that all those innings have hurt him, but Buehrle is an example of the exact opposite; he has averaged 224.5 IP in the last 8 seasons. He is also 30. The Mulder example is too unique to even consider. While you're at it, why not mention Mark Prior and Kerry Wood?

Using different approaches we can and do find problems with every player suggested in potential trades. Brandon Webb is one player I would LOVE to see in a White Sox uniform and would LOVE to see it happen before the trade deadline this season.

I see a lot of potential from a rotation consisting of Buehrle/Webb/Danks/Floyd.

Domeshot17
06-01-2009, 01:35 AM
A couple of swings and misses in this post. The Greinke suggestion has already been shot down. Time to kill the "bum shoulder" theory; he has averaged 227 IP per year for the last 5 years and is only 30 years old. You can argue that all those innings have hurt him, but Buehrle is an example of the exact opposite; he has averaged 224.5 IP in the last 8 seasons. He is also 30. The Mulder example is too unique to even consider. While you're at it, why not mention Mark Prior and Kerry Wood?

Using different approaches we can and do find problems with every player suggested in potential trades. Brandon Webb is one player I would LOVE to see in a White Sox uniform and would LOVE to see it happen before the trade deadline this season.

I see a lot of potential from a rotation consisting of Buehrle/Webb/Danks/Floyd.

I like Webb, but you use a horrible comparison here. Part of why Burls is able to throw a lot is he doesn't put a ton of strain on his arm pitching. It isn't uncommon with a lot of guys who don't throw hard and are more crafty then good. Burls also has a lot of "east to west" movement on on his pitches vs "north to south" which is Webb's style. It is just a different monster of shoulder/elbow usage. The only way we will know with Webb what is going is by following him, but he is out until close to the All Star Break, which means he was shut down for almost half the season, which is not very good. This will become more clear later in their careers. Buehrle has a chance to be very "Jamie Moyer" esque. His arm will hold up, and he should be a quality back end starter into his 40s if he would like because he knows how to pitch. Webb is fantastic, but I see him being hit a little more as he loses his 91-93 mph velocity and sink.

BadBobbyJenks
06-01-2009, 01:12 PM
I think he be great as well, but what would be the point of renting him for half a season, when we know we will probably get out bid in the off-season?

There is a 8.5 Million club option for 2010 no?

BadBobbyJenks
06-01-2009, 01:14 PM
First of all, Mr. Peavy did us a huge favor yesterday when he said no. He would have been lit up every day at Comiskey-he's a fly-ball pitcher.

Secondly, haven't we had enough of National League pitchers trying to play in the American League? Peavy knows it does not work, we should, too. Think of Javy.......


Do you even believe what you are saying here? You just compared a cy young award winner to Javy Vazquez.

I just love these ridiculous comments about Peavy.

oeo
06-01-2009, 02:55 PM
Do you even believe what you are saying here? You just compared a cy young award winner to Javy Vazquez.

I just love these ridiculous comments about Peavy.

I just love how you think Peavy would continue to be a Cy Young. Not happening here.

kittle42
06-01-2009, 03:20 PM
List of pitchers the Sox, or any AL team, should not give up more than mid-level prospects and bench players for:

Jake Peavy
Ros Oswalt
Brandon Webb
Carlos Zambrano
Chad Billingsley (edit: why do I always say Clay???)
Matt Cain
Josh Johnson
Tim Lincecum
Yovani Gallardo
Dan Haren (wait - scratch him, he once played for the A's, so he can be acquired)

jabrch
06-01-2009, 03:49 PM
I just love how you think Peavy would continue to be a Cy Young. Not happening here.


Of course not. He's not waiving his NTC to come here.

We have no freaking idea what he'd do here if he came.

Rocky Soprano
06-01-2009, 03:55 PM
Clay Billingsley


Any relation to Chad Billingsley?

kittle42
06-01-2009, 03:56 PM
Any relation to Chad Billingsley?

Yes. Peter Billingsley, too!

Rocky Soprano
06-01-2009, 04:00 PM
Yes. Peter Billingsley, too!

Just nice to see that you have the occasional gaffs like the rest of us. :D:

getonbckthr
06-01-2009, 05:19 PM
Mr. Bigglesworth?

Flight #24
06-01-2009, 05:20 PM
Mr. Bigglesworth?

Nah, his salary demands would be outrageous........

BadBobbyJenks
06-01-2009, 06:40 PM
I just love how you think Peavy would continue to be a Cy Young. Not happening here.

I said that? Oh wait I did not, but thanks for stopping by.