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View Full Version : Barry Axelrod on espn 1000 now!


It's Time
05-22-2009, 12:30 PM
Tune in!

doublem23
05-22-2009, 12:37 PM
Anything interesting?

DeuceUnit
05-22-2009, 12:39 PM
Nothing new. He prefers the NL. Kenny made a great "recruitment" pitch. Peavey thought it over for just a couple of hours. Of course it turned into how much we would love to play for the Cubs at the end.

It's Time
05-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Jake talked to Kenny about Dye and Thome (Are they being traded). He asked if they were giving up too much to get him, etc. Basically, in the end, he does not want to play in the AL according to Axelrod.

They asked Axelrod about a future trade (Of course the Cubs were the team they asked him about) and he said there are a few teams on his list and that's one of them.

IMO, this whole trade to the Sox was a big joke. How the **** did Kenny not know Jake wanted no part of coming here?

It's Time
05-22-2009, 12:49 PM
He said it took Peavy just a few hours to make a choice not to come here. Barry said he was impressed by KW but in the end, it was not a fit right now.

What a bunch of ****!!

angiew
05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Peavy's looking like a bigger ass by the minute to me :mad:

JohnnyInnsbrook
05-22-2009, 12:55 PM
Jake talked to Kenny about Dye and Thome (Are they being traded). He asked if they were giving up too much to get him, etc. Basically, in the end, he does not want to play in the AL according to Axelrod.

They asked Axelrod about a future trade (Of course the Cubs were the team they asked him about) and he said there are a few teams on his list and that's one of them.

IMO, this whole trade to the Sox was a big joke. How the **** did Kenny not know Jake wanted no part of coming here?

WOW, if he really doesn't want to play in the AL, I'm glad he's not coming to the south side. A pitcher who doesn't want to pitch in a league because he afraid of tougher line ups is a bum IMO.

khan
05-22-2009, 12:55 PM
IMO, this whole trade to the Sox was a big joke. How the **** did Kenny not know Jake wanted no part of coming here?

I disagree. I'd rather have a GM that tries to make things happen than to ASSUME that no one would want to come here. THIS IS CHICAGO, not a small market like kansas city or milwaukee, not a piece of **** town like cleveland or detroit.

KW even tried to sell peavy-***** on coming here, but it didn't work. Fault KW for overestimating what young players without an established track record could do. [i.e. Ramirez/Fields/Quentin/Getz/Floyd] Fault KW for entering the year with 2 question marks in the starting rotation. Blame KW for not having a proper solution at CF, if you like.

But you can't fault KW for making the effort to fix at least ONE of the holes in the team. [EDIT] In looking at Peavy's road splits, [vs. the NL, mind you] I'm not entirely anguished at him not agreeing to come here. In looking at his injury history, I'm not saddened at KW/JR not guaranteeing $22M for a guy who will be 32 or 33 by then.

kittle42
05-22-2009, 12:57 PM
"Go Cubs Go."

It's Time
05-22-2009, 12:57 PM
I disagree. I'd rather have a GM that tries to make things happen than to ASSUME that no one would want to come here. THIS IS CHICAGO, not a small market like kansas city or milwaukee, not a piece of **** town like cleveland or detroit.

KW even tried to sell peavy-***** on coming here, but it didn't work. Fault KW for overestimating what young players without a track record could do. Fault KW for entering the year with 2 question marks in the starting rotation. Blame KW for not having a proper solution at CF, if you like.

But you can't fault KW for making the effort to fix at least ONE of the holes in the team.

I wasn't taking a shot at KW. I was taking a shot at Kevin Towers, who HAD to know Peavy would never come here. I feel he sucked KW into thinking he could get Peavy just to drive up the asking price before the deadline.

Heffalump
05-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I disagree. I'd rather have a GM that tries to make things happen than to ASSUME that no one would want to come here. THIS IS CHICAGO, not a small market like kansas city or milwaukee, not a piece of **** town like cleveland or detroit.

KW even tried to sell peavy-***** on coming here, but it didn't work. Fault KW for overestimating what young players without a track record could do. Fault KW for entering the year with 2 question marks in the starting rotation. Blame KW for not having a proper solution at CF, if you like.

But you can't fault KW for making the effort to fix at least ONE of the holes in the team. [EDIT] In looking at Peavy's road splits, [vs. the NL, mind you] I'm not entirely anguished at him not agreeing to come here. In looking at his injury history, I'm not saddened at KW/JR not guaranteeing $22M for a guy who will be 32 or 33 by then.

i agree. KW got it done. Its too bad that Peavy fears competition. I totally agree that it is his right to use his no trade clause, but it a big time ace is afraid to face tougher hitters becuase it will hurt his stats, he is not a big time ace in my book.

Keep chuggin' along KW....

khan
05-22-2009, 01:12 PM
I wasn't taking a shot at KW. I was taking a shot at Kevin Towers, who HAD to know Peavy would never come here. I feel he sucked KW into thinking he could get Peavy just to drive up the asking price before the deadline.

Fair enough. It wasn't entirely clear to me when I read that post. I guess I was confused by the following:

How the **** did Kenny not know Jake wanted no part of coming here?

It sure seemed like you were taking a shot at Kenny, not at Towers.

DumpJerry
05-22-2009, 01:12 PM
Why the anger at Peavy? He did not put the deal together and then back out. The deal was put together, he thought about it and then said no. He would not have been a good match for us, he would have given up home runs at home like non other on our roster over the past ten years.

kittle42
05-22-2009, 01:13 PM
Why the anger at Peavy? He did not put the deal together and then back out. The deal was put together, he thought about it and then said no. He would not have been a good match for us, he would have given up home runs at home like non other on our roster over the past ten years.

Perhaps our posters are OF season ticket holders who were looking forward to souvenir baseballs.

NLaloosh
05-22-2009, 01:16 PM
I'm more concerned about Kenny's judgement. I think this deal would have been a disaster for the Sox.

Most likely, they would have missed the playoffs even with Peavy. Then what?

Next year - how much salary would be available after adding Peavy's ? They probably wouldn't be able to re-sign Dye.

So, next year they have holes at CF, RF, 3B, SS, 2B and DH. Where does the money come from to fill those spots?

It's a blessing that Peavy turned this deal down. As many have said he would be lucky to have an ERA under 4 here.

Standing Ovation
05-22-2009, 01:22 PM
I think this will make KW even more determined to win this year (miracle, please). He seems like the vindictive, shove it up your ass type.

whtsox13
05-22-2009, 01:23 PM
Even if Peavy came here, Mark Buehrle is our ace. MB is a flyball pitcher and has no problem pitching in our ballpark. Maybe Jake can take some class lessons from Mark.

It's Dankerific
05-22-2009, 01:30 PM
Its amusing that in one day, Peavy has turned from "One of the few legit aces in baseball" to "will be crushed by flyball/homerun happy USCF"

"I don't like YOU either!"

kittle42
05-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Its amusing that in one day, Peavy has turned from "One of the few legit aces in baseball" to "will be crushed by flyball/homerun happy USCF"

"I don't like YOU either!"

Don't forget that he was crap before yesterday, too, because he was "going to be a Cub."

So he went from "waste of space" to "ace" to "waste of space" in 24 hours!

Konerko05
05-22-2009, 01:38 PM
Axelrod is just trying to entice the Cubs into making another offer.

He doesn't want to play for the White Sox. It sucks to hear as a fan, but some players would rather play for the Cubs.

Oh, and I think Peavy would still be an ace in the AL/hitter's ballpark. Gavin Floyd posted a 3.55 ERA at U.S. Cellular last season. To think Peavy couldn't at least match that is ridiculous.

munchman33
05-22-2009, 01:43 PM
**** Jake Peavy. **** him right in the eye.

It's Time
05-22-2009, 01:46 PM
Axelrod is just trying to entice the Cubs into making another offer.

Which is why I think Towers is a ****head. It's not Axelrod, it's Towers who I feel played KW. Axelrod doesn't care one way or the other because he and Peavy are getting paid regardless.

LoveYourSuit
05-22-2009, 01:46 PM
Why the anger at Peavy? He did not put the deal together and then back out. The deal was put together, he thought about it and then said no. He would not have been a good match for us, he would have given up home runs at home like non other on our roster over the past ten years.


DUMP!!!

Finaly a voice of reason.

Go read the 500 pages on the 6 Peavy threads.

You would have thought the guy rapped children or bombed buildings the way they are speaking of him.

It's sickening.

whtsox13
05-22-2009, 01:47 PM
Peavy wants to go to the Cubs so he can be in the sequel to this:

http://www.thechicagotheatre.com/events/we-believe-chicago-cubs.html

The celebration of 110, 150 or even 200 years of no WS win.

LoveYourSuit
05-22-2009, 01:50 PM
I wasn't taking a shot at KW. I was taking a shot at Kevin Towers, who HAD to know Peavy would never come here. I feel he sucked KW into thinking he could get Peavy just to drive up the asking price before the deadline.


Both parties.

It was a publicity stunt IMO.

The Sox had no money in the Winter to all of sudden finding a treasure chest :scratch:

Kenny is a very smart guy and so is JR.

On a real deal, they would have had the Padres get the waiver of the NTC before all the media hell would have been let lose. Especially on a trade of this magnitude.

Konerko05
05-22-2009, 01:59 PM
Peavy wants to go to the Cubs so he can be in the sequel to this:

http://www.thechicagotheatre.com/events/we-believe-chicago-cubs.html

The celebration of 110, 150 or even 200 years of no WS win.

I wish I never would have clicked that link.

doublem23
05-22-2009, 02:04 PM
Why the anger at Peavy? He did not put the deal together and then back out. The deal was put together, he thought about it and then said no. He would not have been a good match for us, he would have given up home runs at home like non other on our roster over the past ten years.

Do you base that on his well above average strikeout percentage or the fact that his GB/FB ratio is right with the league average?

Frankfan4life
05-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Peavy wants to go to the Cubs so he can be in the sequel to this:

http://www.thechicagotheatre.com/events/we-believe-chicago-cubs.html

The celebration of 110, 150 or even 200 years of no WS win.You are pretty much on target. I believe a lot of baseball players want to be "immortalized" as being part of or instrumental to the cubs team that finally wins/or even reaches the World Series after 100 years of futility. They know they will get tons of media attention, adulation and they will forever be tied to that team throughout history. I guess you can't blame them for wanting that.

whtsox13
05-22-2009, 02:08 PM
I wish I never would have clicked that link.

It's pretty sad for MLB and their organization to want to celebrate that.

thedudeabides
05-22-2009, 02:08 PM
Axelrod is just trying to entice the Cubs into making another offer.

He doesn't want to play for the White Sox. It sucks to hear as a fan, but some players would rather play for the Cubs.

Oh, and I think Peavy would still be an ace in the AL/hitter's ballpark. Gavin Floyd posted a 3.55 ERA at U.S. Cellular last season. To think Peavy couldn't at least match that is ridiculous.

I agree with you here. Why would you not be a flyball pitcher in Petco? He has nasty stuff and I think he would be able to adjust to the league and the ballpark. We have had flyball pitchers succeed here, and most of them are not nearly as good as Peavy.

Whether or not his arm holds up is a whole other concern, and it's a concern large enough in my eyes not to guarantee the $22 million option.

PorkChopExpress
05-22-2009, 02:32 PM
Its amusing that in one day, Peavy has turned from "One of the few legit aces in baseball" to "will be crushed by flyball/homerun happy USCF"

"I don't like YOU either!"

SOX FANS: Mr. Peavy, um, would you like to go to the dance?

JAKE PEAVY: Thanks, but I have other plans.

SOX FANS: You must have misunderstood us. We said you look fat in those pants.

DumpJerry
05-22-2009, 02:35 PM
I wish I never would have clicked that link.
View this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrobcJa_EV8) twice and you'll feel better.

UChicagoHP
05-22-2009, 02:38 PM
Both parties.

It was a publicity stunt IMO.

The Sox had no money in the Winter to all of sudden finding a treasure chest :scratch:

Kenny is a very smart guy and so is JR.

On a real deal, they would have had the Padres get the waiver of the NTC before all the media hell would have been let lose. Especially on a trade of this magnitude.

I have a feeling Uncle Jerry was probably putting on a show for the Sox fans, but I think it backfired...

Jenks4Prez
05-22-2009, 02:44 PM
SOX FANS: Mr. Peavy, um, would you like to go to the dance?

JAKE PEAVY: Thanks, but I have other plans.

SOX FANS: You must have misunderstood us. We said you look fat in those pants.

Bravo my friend. BRAVO!:roflmao:

D. TODD
05-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Peavy is a stud and I would loved to of had him on the southside, but I have no problem with him picking and choosing where he wants to play. That is the point of negotiating a no trade contract. He likes hitting and the national league style of game without having to face a DH. He also likes California so that would be his preference as well. More power to him, hey teams ship guys around all the time he earned the right to choose his work place by his performance before his last negotiation, and he is using it. Sucks for me as a Sox fan, but I am a fan of Jake Peavy and his skills, and that has not changed a bit.

TDog
05-22-2009, 02:45 PM
Both parties.

It was a publicity stunt IMO.

The Sox had no money in the Winter to all of sudden finding a treasure chest :scratch:

Kenny is a very smart guy and so is JR.

On a real deal, they would have had the Padres get the waiver of the NTC before all the media hell would have been let lose. Especially on a trade of this magnitude.

You don't, as a public relations stunt, offer arbitration to a player you don't want on your team if there is a chance he might accept it. You don't make a deal for a player you don't want on your team and/or can't afford on your team if there is any chance the player might waive his no-trade clause.

If the White Sox weren't prepared to pay his salary, there wouldn't have been a deal put in place.

Trades of this magnitude -- especially trades of this magnitude -- are leaked all the time before players have the chance to announce whether they will invoke no-trade clauses.

People here assume the worst of White Sox management. It's a WSI reflex. But really, the trade would have been a bold move to fill a hole for starting pitcher the White Sox need while creating a smaller hole and depriving the White Sox of its No. 2 minor league prospect (according to the 2009 Minor League Baseball Analyst by Deric McKamey, a book I highly recommend).

Anyone who believes Peavy wouldn't be a much better starter than Richard or even a rehabilitated and improved Contreras down the road, is, at the very least, delusional.

But there is a saying that sometimes the best trades are ones you don't make. I hope it turns out to be the case with this unmade trade.

Ranger
05-22-2009, 02:47 PM
Both parties.

It was a publicity stunt IMO.

The Sox had no money in the Winter to all of sudden finding a treasure chest :scratch:

Kenny is a very smart guy and so is JR.

On a real deal, they would have had the Padres get the waiver of the NTC before all the media hell would have been let lose. Especially on a trade of this magnitude.

Oh come on, man. Teams don't go through all that work to complete deals if they weren't serious about it. Because by your logic, the Sox didn't really want to make the deal. Which means if Peavy agrees to the trade, the Sox would be in danger of having to somehow back out at the last minute and then save face with the public by laying the blame his way.

Second, many times deals are worked out before the NTC player has consented so he has an idea of the situation he'd be stepping into. Think of the Kobe situation: he wanted to know what players were getting traded away from the Bulls because he wanted to play with the team basically as is. However, if they trade half the guys you want to play with in order to get you, it sort of defeats the purpose.

Third, it has been said before since the offseason that there would be payroll flexibility if they needed to pull off a deal before the deadline.

Ranger
05-22-2009, 02:50 PM
You don't, as a public relations stunt, offer arbitration to a player you don't want on your team if there is a chance he might accept it. You don't make a deal for a player you don't want on your team and/or can't afford on your team if there is any chance the player might waive his no-trade clause.

If the White Sox weren't prepared to pay his salary, there wouldn't have been a deal put in place.

Trades of this magnitude -- especially trades of this magnitude -- are leaked all the time before players have the chance to announce whether they will invoke no-trade clauses.

People here assume the worst of White Sox management. It's a WSI reflex. But really, the trade would have been a bold move to fill a hole for starting pitcher the White Sox need while creating a smaller hole and depriving the White Sox of its No. 2 minor league prospect (according to the 2009 Minor League Baseball Analyst by Deric McKamey, a book I highly recommend).

Anyone who believes Peavy wouldn't be a much better starter than Richard or even a rehabilitated and improved Contreras down the road, is, at the very least, delusional.

But there is a saying that sometimes the best trades are ones you don't make. I hope it turns out to be the case with this unmade trade.

Well said.

kittle42
05-22-2009, 02:53 PM
View this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrobcJa_EV8) twice and you'll feel better.

Hey, Ligue is in there! Otherwise, perfect.

WizardsofOzzie
05-22-2009, 03:07 PM
I said it to my Cub fan friends who have been razzing me all day, so I'll say it here too.

I really want to see one of the big name AL teams make an offer for him to see if he just didn't want to play for the Sox, or if he's really scared to pitch in the AL. Looking at his contract, in 2011 his veto power in his NTC reduces to 14 teams, and coincidentally there are 14 teams in the AL. If he didn't want to play for the Sox, that's fine, I can understand that. If he just doesn't want to play for an AL team in general, then the man has no spine and isn't worthy of respecting.

LoveYourSuit
05-22-2009, 03:09 PM
Oh come on, man. Teams don't go through all that work to complete deals if they weren't serious about it. Because by your logic, the Sox didn't really want to make the deal. Which means if Peavy agrees to the trade, the Sox would be in danger of having to somehow back out at the last minute and then save face with the public by laying the blame his way.

Second, many times deals are worked out before the NTC player has consented so he has an idea of the situation he'd be stepping into. Think of the Kobe situation: he wanted to know what players were getting traded away from the Bulls because he wanted to play with the team basically as is. However, if they trade half the guys you want to play with in order to get you, it sort of defeats the purpose.

Third, it has been said before since the offseason that there would be payroll flexibility if they needed to pull off a deal before the deadline.


If Peavey would have accepted, which was a long shot to begin with, the Sox would have been happy and would have taken the deal.

But IMO, they knew from day one their chances were very slim. They kicked the tires and got very far, but no loss at the end.

But I think this had more of a positive PR view on the Sox than a negative one. It showed baseball and the fans that they are trying to better the product right now.

For SD, it also worked to their benefit. Peavy is the only one that came out looking like the bad guy (unfairly). I bet the fans out there are not too happy being that they want their franchise to turn the page and start building for the future.

Hitmen77
05-22-2009, 03:15 PM
Its amusing that in one day, Peavy has turned from "One of the few legit aces in baseball" to "will be crushed by flyball/homerun happy USCF"

"I don't like YOU either!"

Why? Because there are dozens of Sox fans posting here who have different opinions about Peavy?:scratch:

Can you provide links to show where specific, individual posters were calling Peavy an "ace" yesterday and saying "he'd be crushed at USCF" today?

If there are such examples, it actually wouldn't surprise me.....but I'm just saying that it's unfair to act as if all Sox fans speak with one voice and therefore are totally flip-flopping on this.

Red Barchetta
05-22-2009, 03:19 PM
Why the anger at Peavy? He did not put the deal together and then back out. The deal was put together, he thought about it and then said no. He would not have been a good match for us, he would have given up home runs at home like non other on our roster over the past ten years.

I agree! He would have looked worse if he had taken 2 days vs. 2 hours in making a decision. It makes the AL vs. NL rationale more legitimate. From what I've read, he's more interested in his statistics than he is about winning so let him go! Move on. Nice try Kenny!

Hopefully the Cubs will sign him before the inter-league series and the SOX fans can give him a nice warm welcome at the Cell! :tongue:

Flight #24
05-22-2009, 03:24 PM
Both parties.

It was a publicity stunt IMO.

The Sox had no money in the Winter to all of sudden finding a treasure chest :scratch:



IMO they left money unspent in the offseason because they wanted to leave room to make a big splash if available/necessary in-season. They could have had an Orlando Hudson type, but then wouldn't have been in position to take on Peavy's contract. Seems very Kenny-esque to say "I'm not going to use my budget on minor/medium sized upgrades, I'll wait for a big fish to come along."

Noneck
05-22-2009, 03:29 PM
Seems very Kenny-esque to say "I'm not going to use my budget on minor/medium sized upgrades, I'll wait for a big fish to come along."
Huh? I never got the impression of Williams as being a big game fisherman.

kittle42
05-22-2009, 03:37 PM
Seems very Kenny-esque to say "I'm not going to use my budget on minor/medium sized upgrades, I'll wait for a big fish to come along."

How so? What big splash has he ever made, unless you consider getting Thome a big splash?

His whole Sox tenure has been "minor/medium sized upgrades."

PhillipsBubba
05-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Conspiracy Theory:

Maybe KW was doing a favor for his buddy Jim Hendry by establishing a market value for Peavey...

.....Knowing full well that JP would never sign off on the deal...:scratch:

I'm askin'....

SoxGirl4Life
05-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Why? Because there are dozens of Sox fans posting here who have different opinions about Peavy?:scratch:

Can you provide links to show where specific, individual posters were calling Peavy an "ace" yesterday and saying "he'd be crushed at USCF" today?

If there are such examples, it actually wouldn't surprise me.....but I'm just saying that it's unfair to act as if all Sox fans speak with one voice and therefore are totally flip-flopping on this.

There's alot of that in this thread. Its like a conglomerate Giant Sox Fan that's made up of the hundreds who post here. Like a Macy's Day Thankgiving day balloon Sox Fan. Easy to count for attendance arguments too :tongue:

doublem23
05-22-2009, 03:40 PM
How so? What big splash has he ever made, unless you consider getting Thome a big splash?

Freddy Garcia & Bartolo Colon (uh, the first time).

Both were easily the most coveted pitchers in baseball when the Sox acquired them.

SoxGirl4Life
05-22-2009, 03:42 PM
Conspiracy Theory:

Maybe KW was doing a favor for his buddy Jim Hendry by establishing a market value for Peavey...

.....Knowing full well that JP would never sign off on the deal...:scratch:

I'm askin'....


Uh, no. And pretty crazy, imo.

It's Dankerific
05-22-2009, 03:50 PM
Why? Because there are dozens of Sox fans posting here who have different opinions about Peavy?:scratch:

Can you provide links to show where specific, individual posters were calling Peavy an "ace" yesterday and saying "he'd be crushed at USCF" today?

If there are such examples, it actually wouldn't surprise me.....but I'm just saying that it's unfair to act as if all Sox fans speak with one voice and therefore are totally flip-flopping on this.

There's alot of that in this thread. Its like a conglomerate Giant Sox Fan that's made up of the hundreds who post here. Like a Macy's Day Thankgiving day balloon Sox Fan. Easy to count for attendance arguments too :tongue:


Had this been about BA, I'd probably take the time to go scour for specific examples. Its not, so I'm not going to.

But look at the majority of the posts on each day. The majority were all about how great Peavy was, how excited they were. Now, the majority is about all of Peavy's faults, including that he can't pitch.

veeter
05-22-2009, 03:52 PM
How so? What big splash has he ever made, unless you consider getting Thome a big splash?

His whole Sox tenure has been "minor/medium sized upgrades."The winter meetings Miguel Cabrera thing, was an attempt at a big splash. The rug was pulled out from under him on that one.

doublem23
05-22-2009, 03:53 PM
Had this been about BA, I'd probably take the time to go scour for specific examples. Its not, so I'm not going to.

But look at the majority of the posts on each day. The majority were all about how great Peavy was, how excited they were. Now, the majority is about all of Peavy's faults, including that he can't pitch.

Perhaps the people who were excited were the only ones posting yesterday and the only ones posting today are the people who think he stinks?

Paint me into the corner that would still love to have Jake Peavy here. Yesterday and today.

BleacherBandit
05-22-2009, 03:56 PM
I woke up today, and there was a serene 10 minutes in the shower and at the breakfast table before I remembered about what happened yesterday.

I'm not an expert on contracts and free agency, but I'm hoping there are some competant pitchers on the market. I think KW showed us his despiration yesterday, and it's never good to know that your management acknowledges the dire circumstances, even though it's what you essentially are looking for.

veeter
05-22-2009, 04:00 PM
I woke up today, and there was a serene 10 minutes in the shower and at the breakfast table before I remembered about what happened yesterday.

I'm not an expert on contracts and free agency, but I'm hoping there are some competant pitchers on the market. I think KW showed us his despiration yesterday, and it's never good to know that your management acknowledges the dire circumstances, even though it's what you essentially are looking for.Kenny always likes to strike early. I don't think he's desparate. I'm sure Kenny feels Danks and Floyd are going to turn things around in a big way. If they do and you add Peavy to the mix, the playoffs were seemingly a sure thing. He had nothing to lose.

It's Dankerific
05-22-2009, 04:02 PM
Perhaps the people who were excited were the only ones posting yesterday and the only ones posting today are the people who think he stinks?

Paint me into the corner that would still love to have Jake Peavy here. Yesterday and today.

I know, I respect that you have been showing facts as to Peavy's groundball/flyball ratio.

But, its kind of wishful thinking that people wouldn't show up to WSI yesterday to post someone stinks =)

BleacherBandit
05-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Perhaps the people who were excited were the only ones posting yesterday and the only ones posting today are the people who think he stinks?

Paint me into the corner that would still love to have Jake Peavy here. Yesterday and today.


I'm guilty. But you can dislike a guy and still like that he's on your team. I didn't "hate" Frank Thomas, but I didn't think he was a nice person.

oeo
05-22-2009, 04:22 PM
Perhaps the people who were excited were the only ones posting yesterday and the only ones posting today are the people who think he stinks?

Paint me into the corner that would still love to have Jake Peavy here. Yesterday and today.

As would I, but most of the people bitching today would be the same ones bitching two years from now when Peavy is eating up a big chunk of the payroll. Yep, the same ones that mock Kenny's 50 cent quote, the same ones that bitch that the Sox don't spend enough, the same ones that complain that we have too much money reserved for too few players, etc.

I made a point of it yesterday that I did not want the Sox to pick up that option, and I'm so glad they didn't. Jon Heyman's Twitter had a quote on it asking another team's executive whether the Sox should pick up the option. They said something like, 'you would have to be crazy.'

Instead of bitching about the Sox being too cheap (which is way off the mark), we should be praising them for being smart with the money that they have. That, IMO, is a strength of this organization, and one I'm sure a lot of other teams wish they had.

kittle42
05-22-2009, 04:32 PM
As would I, but most of the people bitching today would be the same ones bitching two years from now when Peavy is eating up a big chunk of the payroll. Yep, the same ones that mock Kenny's 50 cent quote, the same ones that bitch that the Sox don't spend enough, the same ones that complain that we have too much money reserved for too few players, etc.

After two more World Series titles?

WhiteSox5187
05-22-2009, 04:32 PM
I don't know why people think this was a ploy by Towers. He will probably never get an offer that good again and all AL teams have probably lost interest. Honestly, I don't think that this was a ploy by Kenny either. This was either a case of Peavy being spineless (which I am thinking is probably most likely) or Jerry not wanting to take that big option. The thing with that option though is that that could very well be the going price of a major league ace in 2013, if we were willing to spend ten million on Contreras on that age, I think it would make sense to spend twice as much on a guy who has put up better numbers than Jose at an even younger age. But that's just me. I think that ultimately this is just a case of Peavy not wanting to face AL hitters in which case shame on him. If you're THAT afraid of AL hitters you will never amount to ****.

Flight #24
05-22-2009, 04:53 PM
How so? What big splash has he ever made, unless you consider getting Thome a big splash?

His whole Sox tenure has been "minor/medium sized upgrades."

David Wells, Jim Thome, Bartolo Colon, Javy Vazquez (to a lesser extent) would disagree with that statement. As would making a bid for Hunter in CF. Those guys (along with resignings of Buehrle/Konerko/Dye) have limited the ability to go for any additional big fish. This is the first year since they traded for Thome/Vazquez that they've had options to use budget on either a series of mid-priced upgrades or bigger fish.

2005 was the exception, but prior to and after that year Kenny seems to have been a combo of very cheap/under the radar guys and big name/big ticket guys.

Soxfest
05-22-2009, 04:54 PM
The winter meetings Miguel Cabrera thing, was an attempt at a big splash. The rug was pulled out from under him on that one.


Notice the trend over and over for the Sox. KW cannot close the deal!

SoxGirl4Life
05-22-2009, 05:04 PM
Notice the trend over and over for the Sox. KW cannot close the deal!

:rolleyes:

Flight #24
05-22-2009, 05:05 PM
FWLIW, I'm most upset that this didn't go down because it was a chance to get a top-caliber guy or at worst a strong #2 caliber guy at a pretty low cost. I know Poreda's got some good #s, but there's still a <50% chance he ends up as a #2 or #1 SP in the bigs (I think it's a lot less than 50%). Richard is end of the rotation material, and any other 2 prospects were going to be worse than those 2. So to me it was 4 eminently expendable guys for a #2 who could have been a true #1, and in an era when the Sox are going to have some salary flexibility upcoming along with position guys who will be cheap and good coming up through the ranks.

By 2013, Buehrle will be gone (or on a new deal), and Floyd will be in the last year of his deal at $9.5M. Even if Q makes $15, Danks $12, and Alexei $10 in that year, you'd still project to have Beckham, John Danks, Viciedo, Fields, Flowers all cheap in the field, and you'd have 3 SPs locked in at a total cost of ~$60-70M. That leaves a ton of room for a bullpen, a resigned Buehrle, etc.

I understand being afraid of injury and having a useless guy eating up $22M, but there are some risks that you take, and getting a potential stud SP who at worst would be a solid #2 without giving up a ton of talent and having multiple options salary-wise for that out year seems to me to be a good risk to take.

Of course, that all assumes that had they picked up the option he'd have accepted.

veeter
05-22-2009, 05:06 PM
Notice the trend over and over for the Sox. KW cannot close the deal!In his defense, the Peavy thing had about a 5% chance. The Cabrera thing didn't happen because Detroit was willing to take Dontrell Willis, who Florida wanted very badly to dump.

scarsofthumper
05-22-2009, 05:37 PM
Why the anger at Peavy? He did not put the deal together and then back out. The deal was put together, he thought about it and then said no. He would not have been a good match for us, he would have given up home runs at home like non other on our roster over the past ten years.
.

thedudeabides
05-22-2009, 05:37 PM
Freddy Garcia & Bartolo Colon (uh, the first time).

Both were easily the most coveted pitchers in baseball when the Sox acquired them.


I can't stop laughing at your sig. I've never appreciated those camo uniforms more than I do now. :D:

I nominate your signature for post of the week.

scarsofthumper
05-22-2009, 05:37 PM
FWLIW, I'm most upset that this didn't go down because it was a chance to get a top-caliber guy or at worst a strong #2 caliber guy at a pretty low cost.
wait what

Gkern
05-22-2009, 05:53 PM
I agree. I think Peavy turning this deal down is a good thing. He doesn't make the difference this year because there are way too many other holes on this team. Has anyone noticed this team can't hit. If you want to point blame at KW, blame him for not getting Coco Crisp and Orlando Hudson who would of filled two major holes and provided the speed we were looking for as well at the cheap. I give KW credit for trying, but this move probably would of backfired. I don't like 4-5 year contracts for pitchers, especially ones who throw hard and throw a lot of innings. They are going to break down eventually. Use that money and fill the holes next year or lets see what Flowers, Beckham, and Poreda can do to help out later in the season. As nice as it would be to win every year, as long as the White Sox are doing the right things to remain competitive year in and year out is fine with me. This move would of been a step in the wrong direction.

Brian26
05-22-2009, 05:57 PM
David Wells, Jim Thome, Bartolo Colon, Javy Vazquez (to a lesser extent) would disagree with that statement. As would making a bid for Hunter in CF.

This is a good list. I'd add Freddy Garcia too. People tend to forget that every team in baseball was chasing Seattle for Garcia at the time that Kenny pulled it off.

Jaffar
05-22-2009, 06:13 PM
This is a good list. I'd add Freddy Garcia too. People tend to forget that every team in baseball was chasing Seattle for Garcia at the time that Kenny pulled it off.

People don't include Freddy Garcia because KW had to give up future HOF'er Jeremy Reed and a catcher that could throw out runners at second....

...
05-22-2009, 06:28 PM
I'm more concerned about Kenny's judgement. I think this deal would have been a disaster for the Sox.

Most likely, they would have missed the playoffs even with Peavy. Then what?

Next year - how much salary would be available after adding Peavy's ? They probably wouldn't be able to re-sign Dye.

So, next year they have holes at CF, RF, 3B, SS, 2B and DH. Where does the money come from to fill those spots?

It's a blessing that Peavy turned this deal down. As many have said he would be lucky to have an ERA under 4 here.

Forget your meds this morning? :screwloose:

guillensdisciple
05-22-2009, 07:09 PM
Notice the trend over and over for the Sox. KW cannot close the deal!


I've noticed a trend on these threads. People tend to say some stupid things.

chisox77
05-22-2009, 07:14 PM
View this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrobcJa_EV8) twice and you'll feel better.


Awesome! Thank you - I loved it, and everything in it is TRUE.

Soxfest
05-22-2009, 09:25 PM
I've noticed a trend on these threads. People tend to say some stupid things.

Don't be so hard on yourself!

spawn
05-22-2009, 09:29 PM
Notice the trend over and over for the Sox. KW cannot close the deal!
I was wondering when someone as going to blame KW for Peavy rejecting the trade because he wanted to stay in the NL. Thanks for not disappointing me.

spawn
05-22-2009, 09:32 PM
I've noticed a trend on these threads. People tend to say some stupid things.

:welcome:

Frankfan4life
05-22-2009, 10:10 PM
Don't be so hard on yourself!Zing!

Domeshot17
05-23-2009, 10:10 AM
As would I, but most of the people bitching today would be the same ones bitching two years from now when Peavy is eating up a big chunk of the payroll. Yep, the same ones that mock Kenny's 50 cent quote, the same ones that bitch that the Sox don't spend enough, the same ones that complain that we have too much money reserved for too few players, etc.

I made a point of it yesterday that I did not want the Sox to pick up that option, and I'm so glad they didn't. Jon Heyman's Twitter had a quote on it asking another team's executive whether the Sox should pick up the option. They said something like, 'you would have to be crazy.'

Instead of bitching about the Sox being too cheap (which is way off the mark), we should be praising them for being smart with the money that they have. That, IMO, is a strength of this organization, and one I'm sure a lot of other teams wish they had.

Yay being smart. Except Jose never lived up his deal, Thome hasn't been worth his sickening figures (and I like Thome), Macdougal, Konerko hasn't been crap but he also isn't worth what we are paying him.

I know EVERYONE loves the idea of spreading 90 mil out over a bunch of guys more evenly then having some stars and some role players, but doing that is how you end up with teams like last years Sox. Teams barely good enough to make the playoffs, not good enough most divisions, and lose in the first round.

You need a number 1 starter to win in the playoffs. Then you need a better then average 2 and 3. It worked for us in 2005, we seemed to get that. Every year, it is the same recipe for success for the teams that win in the playoffs.

It is why pitching is so coveted in baseball. You either need to trade for it, sign it, or develop it. The way we operate the only choice we have is to trade for it. We have the other pieces. Buehrle is the above average 2 vs a below average 1, Danks is the ideal 3 and if Floyd pitches more like last night then the previous, hes a good 4. But until we get a guy we can put IN FRONT OF THEM, the best well ever be is a first round exit.

Ranger
05-23-2009, 10:49 AM
If Peavey would have accepted, which was a long shot to begin with, the Sox would have been happy and would have taken the deal.

But IMO, they knew from day one their chances were very slim. They kicked the tires and got very far, but no loss at the end.

But I think this had more of a positive PR view on the Sox than a negative one. It showed baseball and the fans that they are trying to better the product right now.

For SD, it also worked to their benefit. Peavy is the only one that came out looking like the bad guy (unfairly). I bet the fans out there are not too happy being that they want their franchise to turn the page and start building for the future.

The positive PR for the Sox is a byproduct of the deal, not the purpose of it. Even if they knew their chances were slim, that does not mean they didn't really want it to happen.

I understand some people have a perpetual cynical view of everything the Sox do, but twisting this into a "Sox did this for image purposes" thing is just really quite silly. I know it's hard for the skeptics to accept this, but the people that run the show over there truly do want to win. They REALLY wanted this guy and he would have made them better. I can tell you a couple of the players were VERY excited when they heard the deal was in the works a few days ago. Some of them believe he would have put them over the top in the division and they would have become the hands-down favorites.

I agree with you on the Padres fans, though. I'm sure they want to be done with this thing.

Ranger
05-23-2009, 10:51 AM
How so? What big splash has he ever made, unless you consider getting Thome a big splash?



You sort of answered your own question.

Flight #24
05-23-2009, 10:54 AM
wait what

I mean cost in terms of talent traded away. Obviously it's a significant financial commitment, although 4yrs at $17M/yr avg is not out of hand for a #1 SP.

Ranger
05-23-2009, 10:55 AM
I don't know why people think this was a ploy by Towers. He will probably never get an offer that good again and all AL teams have probably lost interest. Honestly, I don't think that this was a ploy by Kenny either. This was either a case of Peavy being spineless (which I am thinking is probably most likely) or Jerry not wanting to take that big option. The thing with that option though is that that could very well be the going price of a major league ace in 2013, if we were willing to spend ten million on Contreras on that age, I think it would make sense to spend twice as much on a guy who has put up better numbers than Jose at an even younger age. But that's just me. I think that ultimately this is just a case of Peavy not wanting to face AL hitters in which case shame on him. If you're THAT afraid of AL hitters you will never amount to ****.

Good point about Towers and the rest of the AL teams. This whole thing did not help, in any way, the Padres bargaining power with any other team. Not even the Cubs.

As for the option, I've heard they guaranteed it anyway which I think would have been a gamble. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the word.

oeo
05-23-2009, 11:01 AM
Yay being smart. Except Jose never lived up his deal, Thome hasn't been worth his sickening figures (and I like Thome), Macdougal, Konerko hasn't been crap but he also isn't worth what we are paying him.

I know EVERYONE loves the idea of spreading 90 mil out over a bunch of guys more evenly then having some stars and some role players, but doing that is how you end up with teams like last years Sox. Teams barely good enough to make the playoffs, not good enough most divisions, and lose in the first round.

These are two contradicting paragraphs. At the time of those deals, was there complaining? That's a risk you take with long-term, big money deals. Who is to say that Peavy lives up to his? And I highly doubt with his home-road splits, that he lives up to $17 million in 2012, let alone $22 million in 2013.

You need a number 1 starter to win in the playoffs. Then you need a better then average 2 and 3. It worked for us in 2005, we seemed to get that. Every year, it is the same recipe for success for the teams that win in the playoffs.

For the last ****ing time, Peavy would NOT have been an ace here. If you think this team current team is ready to go the distance because of Jake Peavy, then you're ****ing crazy, anyway. Since you have what you consider an ace (which, BTW, we did not have in 2005, except for Contreras the final two months), we're going to do damage in the playoffs??

Besides, we have an ace in the making, already. Mark my words: Johnny Danks will be a bona fide ace in the very near future.

It is why pitching is so coveted in baseball. You either need to trade for it, sign it, or develop it. The way we operate the only choice we have is to trade for it. We have the other pieces. Buehrle is the above average 2 vs a below average 1, Danks is the ideal 3 and if Floyd pitches more like last night then the previous, hes a good 4. But until we get a guy we can put IN FRONT OF THEM, the best well ever be is a first round exit.

I shouldn't let this get to me, so I'm not. You just keep spewing the same crap. What about a 22-year-old that had Danks' year in 2008 is a #3 starter?

You get so wrapped up in who is what number in the rotation, and in the end it doesn't really matter. Oh, and I have mentioned (since you love this discussion) that Peavy would not be an ace here. He would be nice to put in the rotation, but worth that money at the end of the deal? I think not.

NLaloosh
05-23-2009, 11:51 AM
Even though I would prefer that Peavy turn the Sox down I still think that he may end up here.

My reasoning is this: Towers took the Sox deal because he wants pitching and M.L. ready or close to it pitching. Apparently, the Sox were the only team to offer an acceptable group of pitchers to San Diego.

Therefore, I think that it's likely that the Sox offer may remain as the one that he prefers, and with the flubs unable to do anything at the moment, it could be this way a few weeks from now and Peavy may relent.

It could still happen.

dickallen15
05-23-2009, 12:08 PM
Even though I would prefer that Peavy turn the Sox down I still think that he may end up here.

My reasoning is this: Towers took the Sox deal because he wants pitching and M.L. ready or close to it pitching. Apparently, the Sox were the only team to offer an acceptable group of pitchers to San Diego.

Therefore, I think that it's likely that the Sox offer may remain as the one that he prefers, and with the flubs unable to do anything at the moment, it could be this way a few weeks from now and Peavy may relent.

It could still happen.

Its obviously the one he prefers but it doesn't matter. Peavy has a NTC. If they want to trade him, they have to trade him to a place he wants to go to. If that means fewer and worse prospects, they either take the fewer and/or worse prospects or continue to pay Jake Peavy. The Padres have very little power here, and they have no power if indeed they absolutely must trade him.

JermaineDye05
05-23-2009, 12:49 PM
FWIW

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/05/what-we-know-about-peavy-and-the-padres.html

I would love to see Jake change his mind but I don't see it happening. If it does, I'm gonna laugh at how many Jake Peavy bashers the past couple of days just start to praise him.