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View Full Version : TB Rays lineup error


illini81887
05-17-2009, 10:28 PM
The Rays listed two third basemen on their lineup card on Sunday, causing them to lose their designated hitter.

The plan was for Evan Longoria to DH and bat third on Sunday, but he was listed at third, along with Ben Zobrist. Since he didn't take a position in the top of the first, the Rays have now had to go to starting pitcher Andy Sonnanstine as their No. 3 hitter.

Sonnanstine ended up going 1-3 and rays beat indians 7-5

SBSoxFan
05-18-2009, 07:43 AM
I'm surprised there's not more discussion on this. What I find funny is that they still beat Cleveland. Cleveland is so bad.

Iwritecode
05-18-2009, 09:51 AM
Cleveland is so bad.

How bad are they?

LoveYourSuit
05-18-2009, 10:01 AM
How bad are they?


Being that we lost 2 of 3 to them and were horrible in doing so, if they are "so bad" I would hate to know what people thing about us :o:

gregoriop
05-18-2009, 10:09 AM
Being that we lost 2 of 3 to them and were horrible in doing so, if they are "so bad" I would hate to know what people thing about us :o:


I think he was setting someone up for a zinger.


When was the last time a pitcher batted for himself in the AL (not counting an interleague game)?

Eddo144
05-18-2009, 10:21 AM
I think he was setting someone up for a zinger.


When was the last time a pitcher batted for himself in the AL (not counting an interleague game)?
This happened in 1999 to the Indians. Manny Ramirez was supposed to DH against the Blue Jays, but took his regular position in RF instead. Therefore, Chuck Nagy had to bat.

(Source: b-r.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE199907220.shtml). I remembed the Nagy part off the top of my head, but couldn't remember the position player who had the brainfart. I think it's fitting that it was Manny.)

gregoriop
05-18-2009, 10:27 AM
^

Somehow, that is completely not surprising.

Iwritecode
05-18-2009, 11:13 AM
I think he was setting someone up for a zinger.


:nod:


LoveYourSuit dropped the ball... :(:

ChiSoxFan81
05-18-2009, 11:34 AM
How bad are they?

They're so bad that they're in last place in the 2009 AL Central?
Too late?

sunofgold
05-18-2009, 03:46 PM
Danks and Buehrle each got a hit last year.

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-18-2009, 03:56 PM
I think he was setting someone up for a zinger.


When was the last time a pitcher batted for himself in the AL (not counting an interleague game)?


How about the 2nd game of the DH in 2007 vs. the Twins when we got killed. I believe Garza had to bat because their catcher got hurt, and then Mauer had to catch, which made them lose their DH.

TDog
05-18-2009, 05:33 PM
How about the 2nd game of the DH in 2007 vs. the Twins when we got killed. I believe Garza had to bat because their catcher got hurt, and then Mauer had to catch, which made them lose their DH.

That is the risk teams run when they DH their regular catchers for a day off. I have questioned the managerial wisdom of that. But it's a calculated risk. What happened in the Rays game was a stupid managerial mistake.

On June 30, 1976, in Chicago, Angels manager Dick Williams wrote Nolan Ryan's name on the lineup card, although it wasn't Ryan's night to pitch. Ryan was required to pitch to at least one batter on defense, as the rules state (no pinch-hitting for the pitcher in the top of the first in the National League). He hurriedly warmed up to face Chet Lemon, who unfortunately grounded out.

Some say that all an American League manager has to do is fill out a lineup card. And sometimes they show that they can't do that.

soxfanreggie
05-19-2009, 11:01 AM
This is why we (my team) have a media relations person check the line-up card before each game. They know that their job is to make sure everything is filled out right: names, numbers, positions, etc. We have never had a gaff when it has been reviewed by the multiple pairs of eyes.

doublem23
05-19-2009, 11:17 AM
Some say that all an American League manager has to do is fill out a lineup card. And sometimes they show that they can't do that.

Others say an American League manager's job is more difficult than a National League manager's.

soxinem1
05-19-2009, 11:48 AM
That is the risk teams run when they DH their regular catchers for a day off. I have questioned the managerial wisdom of that. But it's a calculated risk. What happened in the Rays game was a stupid managerial mistake.

On June 30, 1976, in Chicago, Angels manager Dick Williams wrote Nolan Ryan's name on the lineup card, although it wasn't Ryan's night to pitch. Ryan was required to pitch to at least one batter on defense, as the rules state (no pinch-hitting for the pitcher in the top of the first in the National League). He hurriedly warmed up to face Chet Lemon, who unfortunately grounded out.

Some say that all an American League manager has to do is fill out a lineup card. And sometimes they show that they can't do that.

But that was an AL game. How does the NL rule apply?

I remember in 1984 Tony LaRussa put LaMarr Hoyt in the starting line-up as his #2 hitter in LF in a road game, and used Jerry Hairston to PH for him in the first inning. Hairston got a hit and stayed in the game in LF.

TDog
05-19-2009, 02:34 PM
But that was an AL game. How does the NL rule apply?

I remember in 1984 Tony LaRussa put LaMarr Hoyt in the starting line-up as his #2 hitter in LF in a road game, and used Jerry Hairston to PH for him in the first inning. Hairston got a hit and stayed in the game in LF.

Of course, LaMarr Hoyt wasn't in the lineup as a pitcher.

The rule that a pitcher must retire a hitter, have a hitter reach base against him or finish the inning is not a National League rule. It is a fundamental baseball rule. That is, a pitcher must face at least one batter or complete the inning.

(Note: Dean Stone won the 1954 All-Star Game in Cleveland without facing a batter. Before his first pitch, Red Schoendeinst broke from third to home and was tagged out to end the top of the eighth before a two-out single by Nellie Fox off Carl Erskine brought home Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra to give the American League the lead one out after Larry Doby tied the game with a home run. Because the NL eighth inning was ended with Schoendienst being caught stealing, Stone did not have to come out to start the ninth. Virgil Trucks got the save.)

Anyone but the pitcher can be pinch-hit for before he goes out to play the field. Typically, the pitcher doesn't hit in the American League, but this rule also applies when you bring in a relief pitcher. Bring in a lefty, and you can't take him out and bring in a righty when a righty is sent in to pinch-hit. However, a pinch-hitter can be pinch-hit for at any time. And it isn't all that unusual for a player who can't play defense to be in the starting lineup on the road and never play defense -- getting an at bat before being removed for a pinch-runner or replaced on defense. Tony LaRussa used to do it with Mark McGwire a lot.

PKalltheway
05-19-2009, 03:22 PM
Others say an American League manager's job is more difficult than a National League manager's.
How is that? I'm not being snide or facetious, I am really curious. I'm not really for or against the DH, but I would think that managing in the AL (strategy-wise) would be a bit easier than managing in the NL.

TDog
05-19-2009, 03:37 PM
How is that? I'm not being snide or facetious, I am really curious. I'm not really for or against the DH, but I would think that managing in the AL (strategy-wise) would be a bit easier than managing in the NL.

Many, certainly many who follow NL teams, believe any idiot can manage an American League team because the DH takes the strategy away from the game. Indeed, there are American League managers who do nothing but fill in the same lineups every day.

The thing is, the DH takes away some of the checks and balances inherent in baseball, particularly with the handling of pitchers. Without the DH, if a pitcher is losing by a few runs and his turn comes up after the fifth inning, it's natural to pinch-hit for him. Many pitching moves are dictated by the lack of a DH. American League managers have to handle their pitchers separately.

There is just as much strategy going on in the American League except as it concerns the pitcher's spot in the order. The double switch in the National League is overused, but some people think it's a big deal. Sometimes I get the impression that a manager who employs it is screaming, "look what I can do."

I don't think it's easier to manage in the American League, but it's different. The American League requires managers to be on top of things they wouldn't have to prioritize as highly in the National League. But, really, the skills required to be a major league manager don't differ much between the two leagues.

LITTLE NELL
05-19-2009, 03:39 PM
We had the Rays game on in the Golf Shop but had the sound down and I was wondering why Sonnanstine was batting, saw him hit one over the left fielders head for a double.

PKalltheway
05-20-2009, 12:38 PM
Many, certainly many who follow NL teams, believe any idiot can manage an American League team because the DH takes the strategy away from the game. Indeed, there are American League managers who do nothing but fill in the same lineups every day.

The thing is, the DH takes away some of the checks and balances inherent in baseball, particularly with the handling of pitchers. Without the DH, if a pitcher is losing by a few runs and his turn comes up after the fifth inning, it's natural to pinch-hit for him. Many pitching moves are dictated by the lack of a DH. American League managers have to handle their pitchers separately.

There is just as much strategy going on in the American League except as it concerns the pitcher's spot in the order. The double switch in the National League is overused, but some people think it's a big deal. Sometimes I get the impression that a manager who employs it is screaming, "look what I can do."

I don't think it's easier to manage in the American League, but it's different. The American League requires managers to be on top of things they wouldn't have to prioritize as highly in the National League. But, really, the skills required to be a major league manager don't differ much between the two leagues.
Ahhh, ok, I see now. Thanks! :thumbsup: