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View Full Version : What does everyone here think of Josh Fields?


Whitesoxfan23
05-14-2009, 12:49 AM
He has been pretty disapointing SO FAR IMO, with the exception of 2007. It is still early enough for him to turn it around. So far, I am not impressed though at all. I hope he can get it going.

Noneck
05-14-2009, 01:00 AM
Very limited range, basically a statue at 3rd. Always had trouble with the curveball, now it appears he can't get around on the fastball. I am not impressed.

Nellie_Fox
05-14-2009, 01:03 AM
Very limited range, basically a statue at 3rd. Always had trouble with the curveball, now it appears he can't get around on the fastball. I am not impressed.What he said.

doublem23
05-14-2009, 01:08 AM
He started out pretty well, but he's really stunk up the joint the past few weeks. Oh well, we may as well just let him play this season out and evaluate what we have. Maybe (I doubt it) he'll put it back together. :dunno:

I have a sneaking suspicion we'll be in the market for a new third baseman next offseason.

Boondock Saint
05-14-2009, 01:10 AM
Big disappointment so far. I had hoped his strikeouts would drop some, and that looks worse than it ever has. The only thing I expected him to do was hit a bunch of homers, and he isn't even doing that.

Konerko05
05-14-2009, 01:47 AM
He started out pretty well, but he's really stunk up the joint the past few weeks. Oh well, we may as well just let him play this season out and evaluate what we have. Maybe (I doubt it) he'll put it back together. :dunno:

I have a sneaking suspicion we'll be in the market for a new third baseman next offseason.

Gordon Beckham is always a possibility if Getz establishes himself as a top of the order offensive player.

I'm just not sure how the Sox feel about converting Beckham from a middle infielder to a 3B this early in his career.

Rohan
05-14-2009, 02:01 AM
Gordon Beckham is always a possibility if Getz establishes himself as a top of the order offensive player.

I'm just not sure how the Sox feel about converting Beckham from a middle infielder to a 3B this early in his career.

Beckham is not a major league option. That's the bottom line.
We can only hope Josh turns himself around and gets out of his strike out ways.

Konerko05
05-14-2009, 02:08 AM
Beckham is not a major league option. That's the bottom line.
We can only hope Josh turns himself around and gets out of his strike out ways.

Beckham is not a major league option next season?

I was responding to Doublem's post about being in the market for a new third baseman in the offseason.

Rohan
05-14-2009, 02:38 AM
Beckham is not a major league option next season?

I was responding to Doublem's post about being in the market for a new third baseman in the offseason.

Ah, my apologies then. I misread.
But I don't think that it's the best idea to get rid of Fields regardless. We were pretty patient with Crede and he turned out to be decent. But on the other hand, Fields defense is not as well polished as Crede's.

Konerko05
05-14-2009, 02:47 AM
Ah, my apologies then. I misread.
But I don't think that it's the best idea to get rid of Fields regardless. We were pretty patient with Crede and he turned out to be decent. But on the other hand, Fields defense is not as well polished as Crede's.

I've never really been high on Fields. I always thought he could be somewhat adaquate offensively for a 3B, but not the type of player this team needs. This team needs AVG/OBP and defense.

If he could hit .280/.350 like the first couple weeks of the season, I could live with him. If he's going to hit .240 with 140+ strikeouts and below average defense, he is pretty worthless. A team desperate for power might be a good fit.

palehozenychicty
05-14-2009, 02:51 AM
He had a lot of buzz in the minors, but he looks burnt out already. He's getting on base, but hasn't hit the ball much this year. They might as well just let him play and then make a move next season if necessary.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2009, 03:46 AM
He's always going to be a guy who strikes out a lot and whose average tops out at about .250...but I figured there'd be more power than we're seeing but maybe that's a result of him being in the two hole. As others have said, he just can't catch up to the fastball and I wonder if that's a result of his knee bothering him.

Boondock Saint
05-14-2009, 04:10 AM
He's always going to be a guy who strikes out a lot and whose average tops out at about .250...but I figured there'd be more power than we're seeing but maybe that's a result of him being in the two hole. As others have said, he just can't catch up to the fastball and I wonder if that's a result of his knee bothering him.

His swing is the reason he can't hit fastballs.

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2009, 06:06 AM
He had a great first few weeks at the plate but has turned stone cold.

I think Beckham is the 3B of the future, starting in 2010.

Long term, I still hope he could develop into a player who would hit .250, with 35 HRs, 30 doubles and 20 steals. I could live with that type of production from a 1B/DH batting sixth or seventh, since his glove isn't top-notch at 3B. But if he can't, maybe he needs to go play in the NL, where he can be a super-sub.

Bucky F. Dent
05-14-2009, 07:00 AM
His offense is not nearly consistent enough to make us forget that he cannot go to his right on defense.

Here's hoping the Beckham is spending extra time at third in Birmingham - for the record, I agree with the opinion that Beckham should spend the year in AA regardless of how wretched it might get with Fields this year. If it's that bad, play Nix at third.

esbrechtel
05-14-2009, 07:38 AM
I am really disappointed. Crede was my favorite player and I had 100% come to terms with his departure for a few reasons but mostly because I had high hopes for Fields....

I have a feeling he might just be another one of those highly touted white sox prospects that isn't really going to ammount to anything...

LITTLE NELL
05-14-2009, 08:27 AM
Bring back Uribe.

kittle42
05-14-2009, 08:34 AM
He fits right in on this team.

skobabe8
05-14-2009, 08:35 AM
He fits right in on this team.

So true.

He is the infield version of Joe Borchard.

oeo
05-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Long term, I still hope he could develop into a player who would hit .250, with 35 HRs, 30 doubles and 20 steals. I could live with that type of production from a 1B/DH batting sixth or seventh

You could merely 'live with that?' I seriously wonder what some of the expectations around here were.

I think he'll be okay as long as he gets back to the basics that got him off to a fast start. And that's not getting a long stroke which causes him to miss the fastball.

...but I figured there'd be more power than we're seeing but maybe that's a result of him being in the two hole. As others have said, he just can't catch up to the fastball and I wonder if that's a result of his knee bothering him.

I would say trying to hit for power is why he can't catch up. Look throughout his career...as his power numbers go up, so do his K's, and his walks end up taking a huge hit.

I'm not worried about his power, that will come. Josh needs to stop worrying about it, as well, and get back to the basics that made him successful in Spring Training as well as the first few weeks of the season. He looked really good in Spring Training and carried that into the season, coming up with some big time clutch hits. That was the reason he was moved up to the #2 spot in the first place...he was our best bat. It's really disappointing that he's fallen back to old ways.

esbrechtel
05-14-2009, 08:47 AM
So true.

He is the infield version of Joe Borchard.

well he is a little better than that...he had 1 decent season...thats more than Borchard ever put up...

(although the football background is the same...)

Craig Grebeck
05-14-2009, 08:47 AM
Josh is a poor man's version of Shea Hillenbrand. He is what he is, and he should never be moved to a power position (1B or DH) -- full time at least. The only way I see him lasting 5+ years in this league is if he becomes a platoon player.

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-14-2009, 08:48 AM
I find it scary that he was getting blown away on Jeremy Sowers' fastball.

Craig Grebeck
05-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Also, why on earth would we move Beckham to 3rd base? Are we really accommodating Alexei at SS? Beckham has a plus bat for the middle infield (and plays good defense to boot), so we'd be marginalizing his skills by moving him to a corner.

Harry Chappas
05-14-2009, 09:21 AM
Also, why on earth would we move Beckham to 3rd base? Are we really accommodating Alexei at SS? Beckham has a plus bat for the middle infield (and plays good defense to boot), so we'd be marginalizing his skills by moving him to a corner.

I thought the same thing. At some point, I think we need to at least consider moving Alexei to CF. This would open up SS for Beckham, keep Getz at 2nd, and move Nix to Third - assuming Fields continues to struggle.

kittle42
05-14-2009, 09:42 AM
Maybe most of our "young talent" just plain sucks. I mean, it's *at least* a possibility.

Ramirez may be the real deal in a brief sophomore slump, or he may turn out to be one of those guys who is a ROY candidate (or winner, even) who you never hear much from again. There are many.

Fields may be what we're seeing right now.

Getz was never really a hyped prospect. He could be serviceable. He could be good. He could be bad.

Floyd's year may have been a fluke. He's been like this the rest of his career.

Danks appears just fine. Quentin, I think, will be just fine.

Anyway, this is the problem when you "go young" - things may just not work out the way you wished. The way the Sox set themselves up this year, they needed 5 of the 6 guys above to be the real deal, plus one of Colon/Contreras to be at least serviceable.

Vestigio
05-14-2009, 09:49 AM
Also, why on earth would we move Beckham to 3rd base? Are we really accommodating Alexei at SS? Beckham has a plus bat for the middle infield (and plays good defense to boot), so we'd be marginalizing his skills by moving him to a corner.

I have thought the same as well. Both Fields and Alexei are in their second full season, and both are playing poorly. But for some reason Alexei gets the benefit of the doubt (atleast around these boards).

Yeah, I've been disappointed thus far with Fields, as well as Alexei, but we don't know how long he may have been playing with a sore wrist, which could be a cause for his struggles.

KenBerryGrab
05-14-2009, 10:33 AM
Maybe most of our "young talent" just plain sucks. I mean, it's *at least* a possibility.


This can't be ruled out. Just because someone showed an upward trend at one point doesn't mean it will continue. Maybe that slight bump up really was a career year.

oeo
05-14-2009, 10:37 AM
This can't be ruled out. Just because someone showed an upward trend at one point doesn't mean it will continue. Maybe that slight bump up really was a career year.

It goes both ways. Just because Fields has had a rough go the last couple of weeks doesn't mean it will continue. Just because Getz has had a bad last few games (yes, he was batting .291 four days ago) does not mean it will continue. And so on...

People have a knack for overreacting around here. Remember when Paul Konerko's career was over?

KenBerryGrab
05-14-2009, 10:41 AM
It goes both ways. Just because Fields has had a rough go the last couple of weeks doesn't mean it will continue. Just because Getz has had a bad last few games (yes, he was batting .291 four days ago) does not mean it will continue. And so on...

Oh, I agree. But I think it's just human nature (and fan nature) to think that "the light went on" for, say, Gavin Floyd last season, and he'll keep rising upward.

We want that to be true. I want that to be true. It might not be true.

kitekrazy
05-14-2009, 10:48 AM
It goes both ways. Just because Fields has had a rough go the last couple of weeks doesn't mean it will continue. Just because Getz has had a bad last few games (yes, he was batting .291 four days ago) does not mean it will continue. And so on...

People have a knack for overreacting around here. Remember when Paul Konerko's career was over?

Yep, people act as if veterans never go through this.

Billy Ashley
05-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Never been a fan- he's got great raw power but clear plate recognition issues. This is supported by both scouting reports and a pretty lousy K/BB ratios. It's ok to strike out a ton, if you also walk a ton- that just means you're selective. Josh Fields numbers indicate, he's really easy too fool.

Defensively, he's pretty bad. He's not Ryan Braun bad or even Miguel Cabrera bad- but he's a liability out there.

If he could hit for a better average and/ or draw a lot of walks- his raw power would likely make him a good to great starter (Troy Glaus type).

Unfortunately, with the exception of Jose Reyes- players don't just wake up one day and figure out how work the count. It's happened- but it's pretty unlikely.

oeo
05-14-2009, 12:05 PM
Never been a fan- he's got great raw power but clear plate recognition issues. This is supported by both scouting reports and a pretty lousy K/BB ratios. It's ok to strike out a ton, if you also walk a ton- that just means you're selective. Josh Fields numbers indicate, he's really easy too fool.

Defensively, he's pretty bad. He's not Ryan Braun bad or even Miguel Cabrera bad- but he's a liability out there.

If he could hit for a better average and/ or draw a lot of walks- his raw power would likely make him a good to great starter (Troy Glaus type).

Unfortunately, with the exception of Jose Reyes- players don't just wake up one day and figure out how work the count. It's happened- but it's pretty unlikely.

What made Fields successful earlier this year was the ability to work the count. Were you not watching? He was very selective, and looked very good at the plate. He was taking walks and making good contact, which is why he was moved to #2 in the lineup. Lately he's fallen back to old ways, and his 1 walk vs. 15 strikeouts this month show that.

This is exactly why when people said they wanted to see more power, I said I would rather he keep the same approach. Fields' career shows when he's swinging for the long ball, the rest of his game suffers. I really hope he goes back to the same approach he showed all of Spring Training and early April. The homeruns will come by accident because he's so damn strong.

LoveYourSuit
05-14-2009, 12:07 PM
Epic 1st Round Bust.

That's my thought.

khan
05-14-2009, 12:20 PM
I've always thought that if Josh Fields can avoid striking out 200 times, achieve an OPS of ~.750 to .800, and not humiliate himself at 3rd base, then he would be an asset to this team.

After a good few weeks of achieving all three of these things, he's regressed. Surprisingly, it hasn't been his glove that has failed him, its his inability to be an effective hitter that has done so. Now, I'm not suggesting that Fields is a young Robin Ventura reincarnated, just that he hasn't humiliated himself as a 3rd baseman. [yet.]

At this point, I STILL don't know if he can be an asset or not. But who else is an option at 3rd for this or future years? Will Viciedo or Morel figure it out any time soon? For THIS year, anyway, Fields is the only option I see for this team. He's got to work out his issues at the plate. He's on his way to striking out almost 200 times [39 in 30 games; If he plays 150, that would be 195 Ks on the year!]

Carolina Kenny
05-14-2009, 12:24 PM
We are in the vast wasteland of 3rd base suckatude.

Other than Ventura, Crede and a occasional Milkman type interlude, form the Milkman, George Kell and Pete Ward this is where the Sox have been since Buck Weaver.(almost 100 years).

I am convinced that Fields will never be our long term solution at 3rd defensively. Offensively, he could make it but I am not convinced yet.

I still say trade him to the Rockies for Adkins.

doublem23
05-14-2009, 12:36 PM
I still say trade him to the Rockies for Adkins.

You could start by getting his name right (it's Atkins).

And then point out Atkins is 3 years older, is making $6.5 million more than Josh this year, and cannot hit away from Coors Field (career .257/.325/.415 hitter in any park other than Denver's launching pad).

:fail:

Huisj
05-14-2009, 12:38 PM
People have a knack for overreacting around here. Remember when Paul Konerko's career was over?

Yeah, I think his career has actually been over 3 or 4 different times.

rickytickytockyk
05-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Fields messed up that double play ball yesterday badly, by standing up and shuffling his feet before the throw to second. The two run homer quickly followed and the way the guys are hitting right now, the psyche of the game changed. That play, in my opinion, tells us all we need to know about Josh`s long term abilities. He`s just too slow on defense. We all know how good Crede`s defense was and miss that. I`ll go one step further and say that Uribe`s plays late last season were a major reason the Sox won the division. I`m just having a hard time embracing Josh as our long term solution at third base. Even if his bat comes around, I still think he will end up allowing too many extra runs due to plays not being made.:scratch:

kitekrazy
05-14-2009, 01:11 PM
Epic 1st Round Bust.

That's my thought.

It might also be poor development at the minor league level.

ode to veeck
05-14-2009, 01:17 PM
I am still waiting for the Sox to get a real 3B

WheresLyleMouton
05-14-2009, 01:21 PM
Defensive liability: No Question about it. Even after Camp Cora the guy looks silly out there.

Offensive ?: I'm not at the "write him off" stage yet, but he definitely has to improve on hitting the fastball and getting some pop out of that bat. Not to mention stopping the strikeouts. Nobody expects him to win the batting title, but we need some power out of him.

If we can get some power out of his bat he's serviceable for the rest of this year. He'll end up being a one trick pony, but it's better than the no trick pony we're seeing right now.

TDog
05-14-2009, 01:23 PM
Strong defense at third base was a factor in the White Sox having superior pitching in recent years. Crede made some errors last year, but when he wasn't, he was superior defensively. From what I saw, Juan Uribe wasn't bad defensively at third either. Of course, the errors may have led to unearned runs for which people didn't blame the pitching. Fields isn't making a lot of errors, but there seem more hits and fewer doubleplays on balls hit third-base way.

I have posted since Josh Fields' rookie season that I don't particularly like Fields at third base. I have never liked his offense, even in his rookie season. He had some success, but I believed the league would adjust to him.

It took some time and a lot of work at the major league level, of course, for Joe Crede to come around offensively. But Crede played solid defense. Getz, Nix and Ramirez seem to play solid defense, but great pitching means a lot of ground balls to the left side, and the Sox need a good third baseman.

I'm wondering what putting either Nix or Ramirez at third base would do to the White Sox pitching.

Carolina Kenny
05-14-2009, 01:31 PM
You could start by getting his name right (it's Atkins).

And then point out Atkins is 3 years older, is making $6.5 million more than Josh this year, and cannot hit away from Coors Field (career .257/.325/.415 hitter in any park other than Denver's launching pad).

:fail:
I just love spelling names wrong so I can catch flak. It never fails. Fields would be happier in the Colorado clubhouse and maybe the Rockettes would pick up part of Adkins salary.

Billy Ashley
05-14-2009, 02:06 PM
What made Fields successful earlier this year was the ability to work the count. Were you not watching? He was very selective, and looked very good at the plate. He was taking walks and making good contact, which is why he was moved to #2 in the lineup. Lately he's fallen back to old ways, and his 1 walk vs. 15 strikeouts this month show that.

This is exactly why when people said they wanted to see more power, I said I would rather he keep the same approach. Fields' career shows when he's swinging for the long ball, the rest of his game suffers. I really hope he goes back to the same approach he showed all of Spring Training and early April. The homeruns will come by accident because he's so damn strong.

The reason he looked better earlier likely had a lot more to do with the sample size rather than a fundamental change in approach. Robinson Cano- a player with similar trends (though much better contact skills) has at times looked like a patient hitter. He never has been. It's hard to make any judgment about players so early in the season- especially if such judgment happens to run counter to an established pattern.

EndemicSox
05-14-2009, 02:35 PM
He just doesn't pass my "eye-test"...not that my "eye-test" is valid, but it's usually pretty accurate. Don't ask what it means, but lets just say I'm hoping Dayan is the real deal.

doublem23
05-14-2009, 02:37 PM
I just love spelling names wrong so I can catch flak. It never fails. Fields would be happier in the Colorado clubhouse and maybe the Rockettes would pick up part of Adkins salary.

Yes, I'm sure the Rockies will be scrambling to find ways to acquire Josh Fields from us.

Josh would be happier in Colorado because mediocre hitters (like Atkins) can flourish there, and appear to be much, much better than they actually are. Remember when Vinny Castilla got MVP votes?

LITTLE NELL
05-14-2009, 02:49 PM
We are in the vast wasteland of 3rd base suckatude.

Other than Ventura, Crede and a occasional Milkman type interlude, form the Milkman, George Kell and Pete Ward this is where the Sox have been since Buck Weaver.(almost 100 years).

I am convinced that Fields will never be our long term solution at 3rd defensively. Offensively, he could make it but I am not convinced yet.

I still say trade him to the Rockies for Adkins.
It also seems like we have bad luck with our 3rd sackers, Ward, Melton and Crede all had major health issues.

TDog
05-14-2009, 03:09 PM
It also seems like we have bad luck with our 3rd sackers, Ward, Melton and Crede all had major health issues.

Bad luck indeed. Pete Ward was injured in a car accident on the way to a game. Bill Melton fell off his roof chasing after his child. Melton's back still bothers him.

Rich Lindberg wrote a history of the White Sox in the early 1980s titled Who's on Third?, if memory serves. Even Walt "No-Neck" Williams played an half a game at third base in 1971, replacing Bill Melton after he won the home run title on the last day of the season.

eriqjaffe
05-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Rich Lindberg wrote a history of the White Sox in the early 1980s titled Who's on Third?, if memory serves. Even Walt "No-Neck" Williams played an half a game at third base in 1971, replacing Bill Melton after he won the home run title on the last day of the season.Lest we forget...

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3577/widge.jpg

Chrisaway
05-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Ehh what can I say about Josh? He looked pretty good for the first couple of weeks. He plays sub par D. He strikes out way too much. Is the cuban ready yet?

kittle42
05-14-2009, 04:16 PM
Ehh what can I say about Josh? He looked pretty good for the first couple of weeks. He plays sub par D. He strikes out way too much. Is the cuban ready yet?

No, and judging by his early returns, he'd hit about .020 in the majors right now.

BigP50
05-14-2009, 04:54 PM
Josh seems pretty good on D from what ive seen but he is a K machine, lets try Viciedo

doublem23
05-14-2009, 04:57 PM
Josh seems pretty good on D from what ive seen but he is a K machine, lets try Viciedo

:facepalm:

Absolutely not (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dayan%20Viciedo&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=493364).

LoveYourSuit
05-14-2009, 05:19 PM
Lest we forget...

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3577/widge.jpg


Anyone have the Podsednik one where he takes it off the coconut?

kittle42
05-14-2009, 05:58 PM
Josh seems pretty good on D from what ive seen but he is a K machine, lets try Viciedo

I call gimmick account!

mzh
05-14-2009, 05:58 PM
Mark Reynolds, Edwin Encarnacion, Adrian Beltre, and Hank Blalock are all at the end of their contracts, maybe they're an option if Fields simply doesn't work out.

Mark Reynolds Pros: Great offensive production, 52 HR, 174 RBI in a career of only 296 games. Only hit .239 last year but .279 in 111 games his rookie year. Stole 11 bases last year while only getting caught twice, its always good to have a power hitter who can run. Mark Reynolds cons: Set a major league record for strikeouts (204) last season despite only fanning 129 times in '07. Clearly the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the league, led the league in errors last year, worst fielding % too.

Encarnacion doesn't bring nearly as much power to the table as Reynolds, but hit .289 in '07. Strikeouts have increased since his rookie year, but only 102 last year. Not a great fielder, 25, 16, and 26 errors respectively since '06.

Adrian Beltre is one of the most complete third baseman in the league, and while he won't hit 48 homers again, he can still put up 25-30. Still pretty young, he turned 30 last month. Still has decent speed. Great fielder, won Gold Gloves in '07 and '08. Career .270 hitter.

Blalock is 29, but has had injury problems. He is capable of playing 3rd, and is a great fielder when he's healthy, only had more than 15 errors once in his career. Decent power production, and can hit for .280. Ok.

This is all IF Fields doesn't work out. I'm not suggesting we should write Fields off 2 months into his 2nd full season, but these are all viable options if needed.

hi im skot
05-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Lest we forget...



:rolling:

Boondock Saint
05-14-2009, 06:28 PM
:facepalm:

Absolutely not (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dayan%20Viciedo&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=493364).

The facepalm is seeing a lot of mileage this year.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2009, 07:04 PM
Mark Reynolds, Edwin Encarnacion, Adrian Beltre, and Hank Blalock are all at the end of their contracts, maybe they're an option if Fields simply doesn't work out.

Mark Reynolds Pros: Great offensive production, 52 HR, 174 RBI in a career of only 296 games. Only hit .239 last year but .279 in 111 games his rookie year. Stole 11 bases last year while only getting caught twice, its always good to have a power hitter who can run. Mark Reynolds cons: Set a major league record for strikeouts (204) last season despite only fanning 129 times in '07. Clearly the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the league, led the league in errors last year, worst fielding % too.

Encarnacion doesn't bring nearly as much power to the table as Reynolds, but hit .289 in '07. Strikeouts have increased since his rookie year, but only 102 last year. Not a great fielder, 25, 16, and 26 errors respectively since '06.

Adrian Beltre is one of the most complete third baseman in the league, and while he won't hit 48 homers again, he can still put up 25-30. Still pretty young, he turned 30 last month. Still has decent speed. Great fielder, won Gold Gloves in '07 and '08. Career .270 hitter.

Blalock is 29, but has had injury problems. He is capable of playing 3rd, and is a great fielder when he's healthy, only had more than 15 errors once in his career. Decent power production, and can hit for .280. Ok.

This is all IF Fields doesn't work out. I'm not suggesting we should write Fields off 2 months into his 2nd full season, but these are all viable options if needed.
I was under the impression that Blalock is almost exclusively a 1st baseman/DH type at this point.

Out of those, I'd take Beltre because our team needs good defense with our pitching staff.

Daver
05-14-2009, 07:14 PM
Average on a good day third baseman that will probably never hit beyond .270 with decent power and poor plate discipline.

canOcorn
05-14-2009, 07:25 PM
I was under the impression that Blalock is almost exclusively a 1st baseman/DH type at this point.



That didn't stop us from using Fields and/or Betemit at 3B this year.

I thought that Fields had a good chance to be a decent DH for us next year and even sub for Walnuts on certain days, but it doesn't look like he's ever going to have the stick to be a viable 1B/DH.

I hope it's another offseason where most vets are getting relatively small contracts and we make a run at Beltre. I want Beckham in a MI spot and Dayan's not a 3B. Maybe Viciedo and Flowers can team up in a couple of years at 1B/DH in Chicago.

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2009, 07:55 PM
Also, why on earth would we move Beckham to 3rd base? Are we really accommodating Alexei at SS? Beckham has a plus bat for the middle infield (and plays good defense to boot), so we'd be marginalizing his skills by moving him to a corner.

How would moving Beckham to 3B be marginalizing his skills?

I'll never understand how a player is made worse by moving him to a different position, especially if we already have a better defender already occupying that position.

Obviously if Alexei was a one-year wonder and becomes Juan Uribe, then he's not a long-term SS option. But if it's just that he's a perennial slow starter, and he does hit well in addition to playing great defense - and he does play better SS defense than Beckham - there's no reason to move Alexei elsewhere just to make room for Beckham at SS.

If Beckham can bring SS-quality defense to 3B, and the Sox still have excellent defense at SS with Alexei, and both are hitting for .280 average, 20 homers, 30 doubles, 20 steals, and running the bases well, why not?

balke
05-14-2009, 08:30 PM
I don't like his reaction time at all... he's not hopeless I don't think. I'm more holding out for him to be a 1Bman though and as of right now, he doesn't have the bat to do it.


He does have a pretty damn tough act to follow though. There isn't another Crede defensively in the Sox future for a while I don't think. I think beckham will be great there too, but he won't be as good defensively as Crede.


Of course... that's if the Sox want Beckham at 3B. TCM might be out of town by then if he can't start hitting.

ramblinsoxfan11
05-14-2009, 08:34 PM
I was impressed with his hitting and fielding during the first few weeks, but he hasn't done much to catch my attention since then. Plus, it seems that every line drive hit down the 3rd base line goes into left field. However, I'm used to Crede at 3rd and he was one the best defensive 3rd basemen in Major League Baseball, so Fields needs to start working harder to fill those shoes!

Craig Grebeck
05-14-2009, 10:15 PM
How would moving Beckham to 3B be marginalizing his skills?

I'll never understand how a player is made worse by moving him to a different position, especially if we already have a better defender already occupying that position.

Obviously if Alexei was a one-year wonder and becomes Juan Uribe, then he's not a long-term SS option. But if it's just that he's a perennial slow starter, and he does hit well in addition to playing great defense - and he does play better SS defense than Beckham - there's no reason to move Alexei elsewhere just to make room for Beckham at SS.

If Beckham can bring SS-quality defense to 3B, and the Sox still have excellent defense at SS with Alexei, and both are hitting for .280 average, 20 homers, 30 doubles, 20 steals, and running the bases well, why not?
Because his bat doesn't play as well at 3B. Beckham projects to be the better player, and if so, he should be accommodated, rather than Alexei.

peelwonder
05-14-2009, 10:33 PM
Wow...2 weeks ago I was villified on here by saying he wasn't that good.

I made the mistake of saying that he struck out waaayyyy too much and I was clobbered. Now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

Rohan
05-14-2009, 10:48 PM
Wow...2 weeks ago I was villified on here by saying he wasn't that good.

I made the mistake of saying that he struck out waaayyyy too much and I was clobbered. Now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

Good for you...
The thing is two weeks ago he was doing fine... So really you were observing something that wasn't true at the time. He wasn't striking out NEARLY as much and he was hitting over .300.

kevingrt
05-14-2009, 10:50 PM
Average on a good day third baseman that will probably never hit beyond .270 with decent power and poor plate discipline.

Aka Joe Crede - glovework?

Just for comparisons sakes.

Chrisaway
05-14-2009, 11:33 PM
:facepalm:

Absolutely not (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dayan%20Viciedo&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=493364).Wow his stats almost mirror Josh's.

canOcorn
05-15-2009, 12:14 AM
Wow...2 weeks ago I was villified on here by saying he wasn't that good.

I made the mistake of saying that he struck out waaayyyy too much and I was clobbered. Now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

Welcome.

There's a two hour window where you can have foresight and be considered having a dark cloud over your head.

Boondock Saint
05-15-2009, 01:39 AM
Wow his stats almost mirror Josh's.

True, but it's double-A pitching that Viciedo is doing so poorly against.

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2009, 06:03 AM
Because his bat doesn't play as well at 3B. Beckham projects to be the better player, and if so, he should be accommodated, rather than Alexei.

A player's bat is completely independent of his ability to field a position.

Alexei is the better defensive shortstop. I want my best defensive shortstop, you know, playing shortstop, provided that he can hit adequately, which Alexei has proven he can.

Where would you put Alexei? CF? :rolleyes:

thedudeabides
05-15-2009, 08:40 AM
A player's bat is completely independent of his ability to field a position.

Alexei is the better defensive shortstop. I want my best defensive shortstop, you know, playing shortstop, provided that he can hit adequately, which Alexei has proven he can.

Where would you put Alexei? CF? :rolleyes:

Have you seen Beckham play one inning at ss?

kittle42
05-15-2009, 08:47 AM
Welcome.

There's a two hour window where you can have foresight and be considered having a dark cloud over your head.

No kidding. ****ing reactionaries.

kittle42
05-15-2009, 08:48 AM
Have you seen Beckham play one inning at ss?

I think he had a high range factor in college.

Billy Ashley
05-15-2009, 09:07 AM
A player's bat is completely independent of his ability to field a position.

Alexei is the better defensive shortstop. I want my best defensive shortstop, you know, playing shortstop, provided that he can hit adequately, which Alexei has proven he can.

Where would you put Alexei? CF? :rolleyes:

I very much doubt Alexei is average at short given that a number of scouts don't like him at 2b and the statistics (as flawed as you may believe them to be) don't either. Alexei is a guy with great raw skills- and not much polish. He's the antithesis of Beckham.

From what I've read on Beckham. He was a good defensive SS in college. I think the general consensus about him is that his raw ability is much lower than his output. He's not fast, he's not super strong, his arm is acceptable and so on. And yet he performs very well. The scouting reports on him sound an awfully lot like another awesome college short stop- Dustin Pedroia.

Like Pedroia, I don't think Beckham destined for SS for the entirity of his career. However, I do believe that he could be average to above average at the position upon initially making the majors. Later he'll likely be shifted to 2b or 3b, where he'll probably be well above average. Alexei Ramirez, really should be a center fielder. He seems to have the requsit set abilities and the more naunced skills needed for CF (taking proper routes, lining up properly for throws) are easier to cover up in the OF than in the middle infield (foot work, double plays). He's got enough speed that he should be able to out run enough of his mistakes to be a good center fielder. Furthermore, if he's able to improve over time (which is not impossible) he could be a plus defender in center.

Craig Grebeck
05-15-2009, 09:44 AM
A player's bat is completely independent of his ability to field a position.

Alexei is the better defensive shortstop. I want my best defensive shortstop, you know, playing shortstop, provided that he can hit adequately, which Alexei has proven he can.

Where would you put Alexei? CF? :rolleyes:
You are missing the point. Suppose Josh Fields gets moved from 3B to 1B, a scenario you've mentioned on here countless times. What if Josh is a .260/.320/.460 hitter? As a third baseman, that is acceptable, but as a first baseman it becomes a very poor line.

Shortstops with Beckham's bat don't come around very often. As for Alexei's "proven" hitting ability, I'm not so sure. Rather than stack our infield with middle infield bats, I feel we'd be better served to move Alexei to CF and sign a legitimate third baseman.

longtimesoxguy
05-15-2009, 10:00 AM
He is a question mark? Nobody on WSI has any answers!!

thedudeabides
05-15-2009, 10:27 AM
You are missing the point. Suppose Josh Fields gets moved from 3B to 1B, a scenario you've mentioned on here countless times. What if Josh is a .260/.320/.460 hitter? As a third baseman, that is acceptable, but as a first baseman it becomes a very poor line.

Shortstops with Beckham's bat don't come around very often. As for Alexei's "proven" hitting ability, I'm not so sure. Rather than stack our infield with middle infield bats, I feel we'd be better served to move Alexei to CF and sign a legitimate third baseman.

I agree, as it's easier to find a third basemen, than it is a shortstop and a centerfielder. If you find a middle infield bat, like what Beckham projects to be, you do what you can long term to keep him there.

I know Frater rolls his eyes at the suggestion of Alexei in CF, I'm not sure why, as there were scouts out there that think it's his best position, and some reports from Cuba say he spent the most time there. If you've watched him play, his insticts reading the ball off the bat are excellent. He has the speed and would have a plus arm in CF. So far, I like his defense at short, but moving him in the future is a real possibility.

EndemicSox
05-15-2009, 10:36 AM
Alexei has been solid(defensively) at SS, regardless of what the stats say at this point in time. He gets to most balls, is showing a fine arm, and generally looks like a good SS. The sample size is very small, but he looks better at SS than he did at 2B...maybe it's simply a confidence/comfort thing?

Beckham will fine regardless of pro position, although his bat would be a huge advantage at a middle infield position. I'm fairly sure his bat will be a plus regardless of position, but he isn't exactly the 30-40HR type(yet) that is ideal at a corder infield spot. As long as he brings better than average defense to the table, along with his golden bat, I'll be happy with whatever position Kenny/Ozzie have in mind for Beckham.

ode to veeck
05-15-2009, 12:54 PM
You are missing the point. Suppose Josh Fields gets moved from 3B to 1B, a scenario you've mentioned on here countless times. What if Josh is a .260/.320/.460 hitter? As a third baseman, that is acceptable, but as a first baseman it becomes a very poor line..

OK as long as it's 1B in Charlotte

Whitesoxfan23
05-25-2009, 04:23 PM
I want this Josh Fields experiment to be over with. To be honest, I really rather have Uribe than him. At least Uribe could play defense. Fields has been an absolute joke so far. I still hope he turns it around though.

jabrch
05-25-2009, 10:12 PM
I don't see much an option right now...

Rdy2PlayBall
05-25-2009, 10:37 PM
Fields is great. I wish this post came before the 2 RBI double because this is what I really think. He is in a slump early in the season and can definitely do good as long as he MAKES CONTACT! He has to stop striking out. Other than that I say give him another chance... and another and another until he is just down right hurting the team. I don't see that happening though.

Craig Grebeck
05-25-2009, 10:51 PM
Fields is great. I wish this post came before the 2 RBI double because this is what I really think. He is in a slump early in the season and can definitely do good as long as he MAKES CONTACT! He has to stop striking out. Other than that I say give him another chance... and another and another until he is just down right hurting the team. I don't see that happening though.
He's been hurting the team all season.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-25-2009, 10:57 PM
He's been hurting the team all season.No, not really. Who could be standing at 3rd doing any better? What about his great start? What about the past few games? Let the guy play, he's not any worse than Mr. Injured Everyday Quentin. I guess you can credit Quentin for getting Pods more ABs though so good job for TCQ.

Yea I'm poking fun at Quentin, so that should be teal... but Fields hasn't been hurting the team all season.

jabrch
05-25-2009, 11:03 PM
No, not really. Who could be standing at 3rd doing any better? What about his great start? What about the past few games? Let the guy play, he's not any worse than Mr. Injured Everyday Quentin. I guess you can credit Quentin for getting Pods more ABs though so good job for TCQ.

Yea I'm poking fun at Quentin, so that should be teal... but Fields hasn't been hurting the team all season.

I'm not happy with what Fields has done so far on the season as a whole - but this is my opinion also. What is the opportunity cost of having him play? Who else who is available in this organization would have DEFINITELY done any better?

The answer is NOBODY.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-25-2009, 11:10 PM
I'm not happy with what Fields has done so far on the season as a whole - but this is my opinion also. What is the opportunity cost of having him play? Who else who is available in this organization would have DEFINITELY done any better?

The answer is NOBODY.Are you trying to go against my point or agreeing? That last part is kind of what I said.

If you weren't oh well, there is nothing that I can say that will make you like him.

DickAllen72
05-27-2009, 04:56 PM
FYI Gordon Beckham was pulled from today's game and is supposedly on his way to Charlotte possibly to play tonight. Speculation is he may be playing 3B at Charlotte.

jabrch
05-27-2009, 05:02 PM
Are you trying to go against my point or agreeing? That last part is kind of what I said.

If you weren't oh well, there is nothing that I can say that will make you like him.


I am agreeing with you...

gr8mexico
05-27-2009, 05:10 PM
FYI Gordon Beckham was pulled from today's game and is supposedly on his way to Charlotte possibly to play tonight. Speculation is he may be playing 3B at Charlotte.
It doesn't look like Gordon is going to play today for the knights. He's not in the lineup
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2009_05_27_chraaa_colaaa_1&did=t494&sid=t494

EDIT:Gordon did play 3B today for the Barons
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2009_05_27_msbaax_biraax_1&did=t247&sid=t247

TropicanaJohn
05-31-2009, 06:16 AM
I think he stinks. Bring up Beckum,put Ramirez at third( he's got the arm ) Every time I see Fields pretend to play third base I think of how Crede would have easily made the play. I was willing to put up with his lack of defensive skills if he was putting up the power numbers he did in 07,but he is a liabilty with no hitting. Nix is a better prospect and deserves a shot.He seems to be able to play anywhere Ozzie puts him.

jabrch
05-31-2009, 08:45 AM
I think he stinks. Bring up Beckum,put Ramirez at third( he's got the arm ) Every time I see Fields pretend to play third base I think of how Crede would have easily made the play. I was willing to put up with his lack of defensive skills if he was putting up the power numbers he did in 07,but he is a liabilty with no hitting. Nix is a better prospect and deserves a shot.He seems to be able to play anywhere Ozzie puts him.

Why are you trying to move Alexei to a position he has never played? Why weaken our defense at SS?

Gordon is playing 3B in AAA. If he is capable, and if Fields doesn't come around, then Beckham would play 3B.

Fields may or may not make it - but he has looked really good the past week. I'm more than willing to give him more time before concluding that he "stiniks".

voodoochile
05-31-2009, 09:15 AM
Interesting time to bump this thread considering Fields has posted an OPS of 1.026 in the last 7 days (he played 5 games) and has managed to put 30 points on his average since he hit his season low on 5/22. He's currently on a 6 game hitting streak with 3 multi-hit games, 5 RBI and 3 R scored. Maybe he's just getting lucky and he'll fall back to Earth soon enough, but I actually like his approach to the plate recently and would prefer he continue to play...

Dan H
05-31-2009, 09:40 AM
Fields has no range. That blown save of Jenks was paritally Fields' fault. The game winning hit was a play he could have made. His slow reaction let that run score.

I am not willing to give up on him yet. Maybe he can work himself into being a decent third baseman. Putting another in-experienced player at this position is not the answer.

Frater Perdurabo
05-31-2009, 09:56 AM
Interesting time to bump this thread considering Fields has posted an OPS of 1.026 in the last 7 days (he played 5 games) and has managed to put 30 points on his average since he hit his season low on 5/22. He's currently on a 6 game hitting streak with 3 multi-hit games, 5 RBI and 3 R scored. Maybe he's just getting lucky and he'll fall back to Earth soon enough, but I actually like his approach to the plate recently and would prefer he continue to play...

I wonder if Beckham's promotion to Charlotte to get innings at 3B has lit a fire under Fields' butt?

soxyess
05-31-2009, 10:11 AM
Do you want to rely on a player that needs to have a fire lit under him in order to perform?

DumpJerry
05-31-2009, 10:13 AM
Fields has no range. That blown save of Jenks was paritally Fields' fault. The game winning hit was a play he could have made. His slow reaction let that run score.

I am not willing to give up on him yet. Maybe he can work himself into being a decent third baseman. Putting another in-experienced player at this position is not the answer.
Jenks' save was blown when he gave up the home run to tie the game. Unless you want to argue that Fields should have jumped about 30 feet in the air and about 80 feet to his left at the same time, you cannot say he played any role in the blowing of the save. Your argument might work, however, for the "L" that got hung on Jenks for that game.

voodoochile
05-31-2009, 10:14 AM
Do you want to rely on a player that needs to have a fire lit under him in order to perform?

And speculation has become reality... Ladies and Gentlemen... The Internet...

longtimesoxguy
05-31-2009, 11:33 AM
He sucks

jabrch
05-31-2009, 12:59 PM
Do you want to rely on a player that needs to have a fire lit under him in order to perform?

He performed well his first trip up here also.

If Josh performs, I don't care what it takes for the coaching staff to motivate him.

ramblinsoxfan11
05-31-2009, 04:35 PM
He played great today against KC, but he still has to work on his defense and offense a bit. I don't think he's that good of a 3rd baseman... but that's probably because I still miss Crede :(:

Rdy2PlayBall
05-31-2009, 04:39 PM
I am agreeing with you...Ok alright. Sorry for the confusion. Well... he has been doing good like I said he could since I posted that... so good for him! ...And us... he really need him to keep this up, along with Alexei.

All we need is Getz to step it up like earlier in the season and we can run away with this. A lot has to go right.

Jeckle2000
05-31-2009, 04:40 PM
He has been performing really well for the last week...

Why is it that everyone just assumes he's awful?

Couldn't he just be a good player that started off hot, went into a slump, and is now coming out of it?

voodoochile
05-31-2009, 04:42 PM
He has been performing really well for the last week...

Why is it that everyone just assumes he's awful?

Couldn't he just be a good player that started off hot, went into a slump, and is now coming out of it?

Yes, but you're only talking about his offense. His defense has been poor at best. So, if he's not hitting, he's worthless. That's why people have been calling for his head.

Nice to see the kid turning it around. He's definitely got a good approach to hitting these days, just needs to keep it going...

chisox77
05-31-2009, 04:54 PM
Fields is getting better.

Jeckle2000
05-31-2009, 04:55 PM
Yes, but you're only talking about his offense. His defense has been poor at best. So, if he's not hitting, he's worthless. That's why people have been calling for his head.

Nice to see the kid turning it around. He's definitely got a good approach to hitting these days, just needs to keep it going...

I know the cold numbers don't reflect it but I do think his defense has actually improved. He seems to do better on the tougher players and ends up in trouble on the easy ones. He'll only get better by playing.

I just don't like the thought of rushing Gordon Beckham in at a new position. He needs to get at least until September in the minors.

voodoochile
05-31-2009, 04:59 PM
I know the cold numbers don't reflect it but I do think his defense has actually improved. He seems to do better on the tougher players and ends up in trouble on the easy ones. He'll only get better by playing.

I just don't like the thought of rushing Gordon Beckham in at a new position. He needs to get at least until September in the minors.

You'll get no arguments from me. I want to see Fields succeed. I predicted he would be fine this year, so I'm hoping he continues to hit not only because it's good for the team, but because I would prefer not to be proven wrong...:D:

No guarantees, but yeah, it's good to see him getting in a groove. I just hope he keeps it going...

jabrch
05-31-2009, 05:02 PM
Fields is getting better.

Patience is a virtue in this game.

162 game season...this isn't the NFL. Sure - I know a single game can (and did last year) make a difference. But baseball teams are patient because making decisions in absence of patience will frequently result in a bad decision.

Fans are expected to be impatient and not understand this. Fortunately management is smarter than we are.

DirtySox
05-31-2009, 05:12 PM
And Beckham is back at SS tonight. The intrigue, it continues?

SakMann67
06-02-2009, 01:29 AM
Thru 5 games in AAA Gordon Beckham is only hitting .500 & He is playing 3rd base

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Beckham%20%203B&pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=493596



Beckham 3B 5 3 3 1 0 0 2 0 1 .500

Bring Him Up ASAP

Rohan
06-02-2009, 01:31 AM
Thru 5 games in AAA Gordon Beckham is only hitting .500 & He is playing 3rd base

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Beckham%20%203B&pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=493596



Beckham 3B 5 3 3 1 0 0 2 0 1 .500

Bring Him Up ASAP

Not for at least two more years. He'll learn a lot more down there.

kittle42
06-02-2009, 02:11 AM
Not for at least two more years. He'll learn a lot more down there.

He'll be up before the break if Fields keeps this up.

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-02-2009, 03:26 AM
He'll be up before the break if Fields keeps this up.

I'd like to agree, but I think the Sox are gonna want to see what Fields does in a whole season. Fields looked horrible in tonights game and swung at some real aweful pitches, but I think moving to the next option at this time is too soon. Plus he isn't exactly costing the team anything right now. Once he starts losing games for the Sox, then I think Beckham should be considered for 3B.

cards press box
06-02-2009, 05:35 AM
Not for at least two more years. He'll learn a lot more down there.

I don't see Gordon Beckham playing in the minors for two more years. In fact, I would be surprised if Beckham is not starting for the White Sox by next year, most likely at 2B or 3B. I don't doubt that Beckham could play SS too but the Sox have Alexei Ramirez and he seems to be a fixture at SS. What's more, I could see Beckham eventually batting 2nd or 3rd in the batting order. Beckham is a star in the making and those type of players typically reach the majors sooner rather than later.

He'll be up before the break if Fields keeps this up.

Well, the Sox seemed to be making some kind of statement when they started playing Beckham at 3B in Birmingham, promoted him to Charlotte and continued to play him at 3B. I still think that Beckham's future is in the middle infield but, as you say, Beckham might be playing 3B in Chicago soon.