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View Full Version : Official 'Shut it, Shut it, Shut-it out Loud! 5-13 Post game Thread


soxinem1
05-13-2009, 02:31 PM
Another goose egg fest!

Jurr
05-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Icky.

DirtySox
05-13-2009, 02:32 PM
At least Alexei got some hits?

aryzner
05-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Pretty brutal.

It's not fun being a White Sox fan at this current time.

johnnyg83
05-13-2009, 02:32 PM
15 runs in the last 6 games ... bru-tal

Boondock Saint
05-13-2009, 02:33 PM
I think I'm going to take a week or so off of watching this team for my own well-being. It's too damned frustrating to watch.

rdwj
05-13-2009, 02:33 PM
This team is tough to watch right now.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Very depressed.

Very early in the season still, but when you get shut out every other night it almost feels like there is no hope.

Soxman219
05-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Bad times. :(:

We must lead the league in getting shut-out.

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 02:34 PM
I think I'm going to take a week or so off of watching this team for my own well-being. It's too damned frustrating to watch.


The Toronto series is going to be hell. if the 12-22 Indians are beating us this way.. I don't even want to think about it. :shudder:

MsSoxVixen22
05-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful! I was bummed I couldn't listen to the game on the radio while I'm at work but when I saw the box score, I knew I wasn't going to miss much! Having Thome out of the lineup didn't do us any favors either. Go get 'em tomorrow boys....

Whitesoxfan23
05-13-2009, 02:34 PM
This team is not good. At all. Pollyanna's try to analyze and twist this into something positive. Oh, and Lillibridge should never play Major League Baseball. The word awful cannot describe him enough.

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Bad times. :(:

We must lead the league in getting shut-out.


By far.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 02:35 PM
I'm not sure if I'm getting numb to these shutouts or if because the other guy on the bump was the Cy Young winner last year, but this one pretty much doesn't feel too bad.

Meh.

veeter
05-13-2009, 02:35 PM
A month and a half in, and the Sox have yet to play back to back good games. Lillibridge better not play until he's sent down, when BA gets back. I'd like to see Nix at third until Fields can correct that God awful hitch in his swing, that doesn't allow him to catch up to major league fastballs. I still think they will win the division.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:35 PM
Kudos to Buehrle once again, he gave us a chance to win this game. That's all you can ask for.

It looks like Buehrle and Jenks might be our only two hopes for the allstar game.

ChiSoxFan81
05-13-2009, 02:36 PM
At least we got it out of the way early and it's not going to ruin my night.

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 02:36 PM
This team is not good. At all. Pollyanna's try to analyze and twist this into something positive. Oh, and Lillibridge should never play Major League Baseball. The word awful cannot describe him enough.


I don't think there are alot of "Pollyannas" who post here. There are some that choose not to be psychotic about things tho.

captainclutch24
05-13-2009, 02:36 PM
We have been shut put in 20 percent of our games. This team fails at life.

Jurr
05-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Pretty brutal.

It's not fun being a White Sox fan at this current time.
Yeah, you figure after seeing the Sox limp through August and September last year, only to get three wins at the end (and the only reason they had the chance was Minnesota's equally miserable play), Kenny would have decided to change this offense around. Nope.

I guess we'll have to sit through this beer league softball nonsense FOR ANOTHER ****ING YEAR.

captainclutch24
05-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Fire Walker

Soxman219
05-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Seriously, this is bad right now. We lost to the worst team in the AL 2 out of 3 times. We haven't won a series since Tampa.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:39 PM
This team is not good. At all. Pollyanna's try to analyze and twist this into something positive. Oh, and Lillibridge should never play Major League Baseball. The word awful cannot describe him enough.


Yeah, I have no idea what our scouts saw in him. Could the Braves have had anyone worse to throw at us for Javy?

Flowers better be something special, or I am going to lose hope on this new scouting staff.

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2009, 02:41 PM
If we can't score of the likes of Adam Eaton, what makes anyone think we could score off of Cliff Lee?

This is beginning to look like an ugly year. I don't think we'll look good at all in Toronto, but if we don't turn it around there...maaaan, we're in trouble.

SoxSpeed22
05-13-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm not sure if I'm getting numb to these shutouts or if because the other guy on the bump was the Cy Young winner last year, but this one pretty much doesn't feel too bad.

Meh.Yeah, you can't really compare getting shutout by Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay to getting shut out by David ****in' Harrison and Adam ****in' Eaton.
Optimism is definitely fading.

Britt Burns
05-13-2009, 02:41 PM
Yikes. This was awful. And I agree...Lillibridge can't be gone soon enough. Maybe he can work things out in Charlotte...

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:42 PM
Yeah, you figure after seeing the Sox limp through August and September last year, only to get three wins at the end (and the only reason they had the chance was Minnesota's equally miserable play), Kenny would have decided to change this offense around. Nope.

I guess we'll have to sit through this beer league softball nonsense FOR ANOTHER ****ING YEAR.


Well said. That's what I've been saying

You barely got there last year, and you decide to subtract rather than add :scratch:

It's almost feels like it was a mistake to have won the division last year because it gave management the feeling that all was fine. These hole are not new, they were there last year and 2007.

Whitesoxfan23
05-13-2009, 02:42 PM
I don't think there are alot of "Pollyannas" who post here. There are some that choose not to be psychotic about things tho.


Oh, I'm sorry. Me being realistic is psychotic to you. Ok. Thanks, but no thanks for your opinion :smile:

veeter
05-13-2009, 02:42 PM
Yeah, I have no idea what our scouts saw in him. Could the Braves have had anyone worse to throw at us for Javy?

Flowers better be something special, or I am going to lose hope on this new scouting staff.Flowers was clearly the gem of the deal. I think the Sox liked Brent's speed. But for Christ's sake, why does a guy who's 150 pounds, swing for the fences? Lillibridge and Logan was like our **** for your ****.

DonnieDarko
05-13-2009, 02:44 PM
Words cannot describe my anger at this game, and really all the others where we've been shutout. As one previous poster said, this team fails at (baseball) life.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:44 PM
Flowers was clearly the gem of the deal. I think the Sox liked Brent's speed. But for Christ's sake, why does a guy who's 150 pounds, swing for the fences? Lillibridge and Logan was like our **** for your ****.


That's Greg Walker for you.

The guy's only tool is his feet, and yet no one in that coaching staff has made mention to him on a different way to attack the ball.

salty99
05-13-2009, 02:45 PM
We have the same record this year as we did at this time last year.

veeter
05-13-2009, 02:45 PM
Yeah, you figure after seeing the Sox limp through August and September last year, only to get three wins at the end (and the only reason they had the chance was Minnesota's equally miserable play), Kenny would have decided to change this offense around. Nope.

I guess we'll have to sit through this beer league softball nonsense FOR ANOTHER ****ING YEAR.The beer league guys have been good, though. The slumps of Alexei and Quentin, to me, are the main culprits.

veeter
05-13-2009, 02:47 PM
We have the same record this year as we did at this time last year.This is good news.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:47 PM
We have the same record this year as we did at this time last year.


Let me know what our record was at this time in 2005.

I rather be compared to that team.

Woofer
05-13-2009, 02:48 PM
My math may be fuzzy, but this was the 6th shutout this year. We are averaging 1 shutout a week, we will be on pace for around 27 shutouts if this pace continues. At least the Sox will be saving some money on the bats that they aren't using!

salty99
05-13-2009, 02:49 PM
let me know what our record was at this time in 2005.

I rather be compared to that team.

24-9

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. Me being realistic is psychotic to you. Ok. Thanks, but no thanks for your opinion :smile:
lol.. i wasn't calling you psychotic. Sorry if you took it that way

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:49 PM
The beer league guys have been good, though. The slumps of Alexei and Quentin, to me, are the main culprits.


Getz - now bad
Fields - bad
Quentin - bad
Alexei - bad
Thome - bad
Wise/Lilibridge/Anderson - bad

Dye, Paulie, & AJ are the only guys performing at or above their averages.

Whitesoxfan23
05-13-2009, 02:50 PM
lol.. i wasn't calling you psychotic. Sorry if you took it that way

My apologies for misunderstanding then. Fair enough.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:51 PM
24-9

so we are bit off that pace ....

kittle42
05-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Hey, they were done losing by 2:00, are off tomorrow, and don't play again til Friday night, when I will be at a work function. I feel like I have a 3 day break.

That's the best thing I can say about the Sox right now.

salty99
05-13-2009, 02:52 PM
so we are bit off that pace ....

we sure are...i don't care what the pace is as long we start winning some games

veeter
05-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Getz - now bad
Fields - bad
Quentin - bad
Alexei - bad
Thome - bad
Wise/Lilibridge/Anderson - bad

Dye, Paulie, & AJ are the only guys performing at or above their averages.I don't even look at Thome's avg. anymore. What he did yesterday is what I expect from him. Random outbursts that win games. He's been o.k. by me.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't even look at Thome's avg. anymore. What he did yesterday is what I expect from him. Random outbursts that win games. He's been o.k. by me.


You can't expect to win if you think this way. Especially if they have him hitting in the middle of the order. BA with RISP is what's killing this club.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 02:56 PM
Hey, they were done losing by 2:00, are off tomorrow, and don't play again til Friday night, when I will be at a work function. I feel like I have a 3 day break.

That's the best thing I can say about the Sox right now.

Can Buehrle come back to pitch on Friday?

kittle42
05-13-2009, 02:57 PM
Shutouts the last few seasons....

2009: 6
2008: 11
2007: 11
2006: 6
2005: 7

Wonderful

CHISOXFAN13
05-13-2009, 02:57 PM
We have the same record this year as we did at this time last year.

The 2007 squad was 18-15. Can we please stop comparing records to previous year's teams? It has no bearing at all, and I constantly see people making mention of it. Two different teams as were the 2007 and 2008 squads.

This team has been shutout six times and can't turn a routine double play. The Indians have turned 28 more double plays in 33 games. Those are alarming numbers.

The funny thing is those that post legitimate concerns are psychotic, yet the ultra positive people when there aren't many things to be excited about right now are sane. That makes zero sense.

At least Lillibridge should be gone when BA gets back. That's great news.

D. TODD
05-13-2009, 02:58 PM
This team looks like they will be done by the end of June. Funnier things have happened I guess, but I don't see much light at the end of this tunnel. This is going to be a long painful year on the Southside.

It's Dankerific
05-13-2009, 02:59 PM
That's Greg Walker for you.

The guy's only tool is his feet, and yet no one in that coaching staff has made mention to him on a different way to attack the ball.

You can't expect him to waste time teaching a player that will only be on the team for a few months.

veeter
05-13-2009, 03:00 PM
The 2007 squad was 18-15. Can we please stop comparing records to previous year's teams? It has no bearing at all, and I constantly see people making mention of it. Two different teams as were the 2007 and 2008 squads.

This team has been shutout six times and can't turn a routine double play. The Indians have turned 28 more double plays in 33 games. Those are alarming numbers.

The funny thing is those that post legitimate concerns are psychotic, yet the ultra positive people when there aren't many things to be excited about right now are sane. That makes zero sense.

At least Lillibridge should be gone when BA gets back. That's great news.Turning a lot of double plays also means your pitchers constantly have men on base. Many horrible teams have turned a lot of double plays.

It's Dankerific
05-13-2009, 03:01 PM
Getz - now bad
Fields - bad
Quentin - bad
Alexei - bad
Thome - bad
Wise/Lilibridge/Anderson - bad

Dye, Paulie, & AJ are the only guys performing at or above their averages.

Not cool man. NOT COOL.

Dibbs
05-13-2009, 03:01 PM
This could be a long season. We have the worst one and two hitters in the league no matter who we put there. Nix and Podsednik today...that is embarrassing.

Jenks4Prez
05-13-2009, 03:01 PM
PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU!

This team stinks!

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 03:02 PM
This could be a long season. We have the worst one and two hitters in the league no matter who we put there. Nix and Podsednik today...that is embarrassing.


I was going to ask you how you knew our 1-2 were the worst in baseball when i don't even know who are 1-2 hitters are!

Whitesoxfan23
05-13-2009, 03:02 PM
How long before we see an Ozzie outburst?

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 03:03 PM
How long before we see an Ozzie outburst?


I think Toronto sends him over the edge again.

BadBobbyJenks
05-13-2009, 03:04 PM
But this team was 15-17 last season!



We are 2nd to last in Batting Average
We are 2nd to last in Fielding
Thankfully we are 7th in team ERA

salty99
05-13-2009, 03:05 PM
The 2007 squad was 18-15. Can we please stop comparing records to previous year's teams? It has no bearing at all, and I constantly see people making mention of it. Two different teams as were the 2007 and 2008 squads.

This team has been shutout six times and can't turn a routine double play. The Indians have turned 28 more double plays in 33 games. Those are alarming numbers.

The funny thing is those that post legitimate concerns are psychotic, yet the ultra positive people when there aren't many things to be excited about right now are sane. That makes zero sense.

At least Lillibridge should be gone when BA gets back. That's great news.

1. No we can't because it is a fact.

2. This team is not playing well right now.

3. We have alot of injuries and players not performing up to par.

4. I agree Lilli needs to back to AAA and get on track.

5. :gulp:

beasly213
05-13-2009, 03:06 PM
This team is bad. REEEAAALLLLL BAD. :whiner:

Dibbs
05-13-2009, 03:07 PM
Swisher, Javy and Cabrera sound pretty good right about now.

kittle42
05-13-2009, 03:07 PM
The 2007 squad was 18-15. Can we please stop comparing records to previous year's teams? It has no bearing at all, and I constantly see people making mention of it. Two different teams as were the 2007 and 2008 squads.

It's a bull**** comparison people use to make themselves feel better about the rest of the season. "We didn't expect the team to do anything last year at this time and look what happened!"

Well, it was a different team. Does this one at all have the makeup of a team that looks like it can pull itself together? We'll see. People who say the season is done/lost/whatever are totally stupid, but to say "hey, anyone can turn it around and make the playoffs," then criticize annyone criticizing the team, is also stupid.

LITTLE NELL
05-13-2009, 03:08 PM
Waterboarding baloney, make the terrorists watch the White Sox try to hit a baseball, now thats torture.

PhillipsBubba
05-13-2009, 03:09 PM
Surprise, surprise, surprise...our heroes were shut out again!:(:

CHISOXFAN13
05-13-2009, 03:11 PM
Turning a lot of double plays also means your pitchers constantly have men on base. Many horrible teams have turned a lot of double plays.

The Sox are 12th in the league IN WHIP, so they are putting plenty of men on base, yet the defense is failing to turn some key double plays. Today was a perfect example. Failure to turn a DP led to a three-run homer by Garko.

KenBerryGrab
05-13-2009, 03:11 PM
Dye's AB (and ejection) when he was up with the bases loaded said it all.

Can't someone get a two-out hit with runners in scoring position?

KenBerryGrab
05-13-2009, 03:11 PM
The Sox are 12th in the league IN WHIP, so they are putting plenty of men on base, yet the defense is failing to turn some key double plays. Today was a perfect example. Failure to turn a DP led to a three-run homer by Garko.

Two-run homer, but you're basically right.

CHISOXFAN13
05-13-2009, 03:12 PM
It's a bull**** comparison people use to make themselves feel better about the rest of the season. "We didn't expect the team to do anything last year at this time and look what happened!"

Well, it was a different team. Does this one at all have the makeup of a team that looks like it can pull itself together? We'll see. People who say the season is done/lost/whatever are totally stupid, but to say "hey, anyone can turn it around and make the playoffs," then criticize annyone criticizing the team, is also stupid.

Well said. I agree on all accounts. I'm not saying this season is over by a long shot, but I refuse to compare records just to make myself feel better.

veeter
05-13-2009, 03:13 PM
Swisher, Javy and Cabrera sound pretty good right about now.That's Phil Rogers' talk.

Woofer
05-13-2009, 03:13 PM
Swisher, Javy and Cabrera sound pretty good right about now.

I don't mind Swisher on another team. Right now if we had Javy and his .500 record, we would have 3 more wins, and we wouldn't have had to push Contreras back into the rotation. Cabrera would be leading off, and playing a decent shortstop. Ramirez would still be at 2nd, where he worked out fine last year.

The Sox went the cheap route over the off season, and the gambles haven't paid off yet.

johnnyg83
05-13-2009, 03:14 PM
You can't expect him to waste time teaching a player that will only be on the team for a few months.

when he doesn't even teach anyone anything who's been here a few years

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Never fear, the Sox will face three pitchers they've never seen before - plus Roy Halladay - in the four-game set at Toronto.

I expect an offensive explosion this weekend.

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 03:20 PM
Never fear, the Sox will face three pitchers they've never seen before - plus Roy Halladay - in the four-game set at Toronto.

I expect an offensive explosion this weekend.


We're trying to avoid that discussion. That's for tomorrow!

Konerko05
05-13-2009, 03:22 PM
Outfield at one point late in the game:

Podsednik-Lillibridge-Nix

That pretty much says it all about the current state of the White Sox.

soxinem1
05-13-2009, 03:27 PM
Outfield at one point late in the game:

Podsednik-Lillibridge-Nix

That pretty much says it all about the current state of the White Sox.

Hey, soon it will be Quentin, Anderson, and Dye.

Not sure if it is related, but notice how the team has played worse without BA in CF..............

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:28 PM
Outfield at one point late in the game:

Podsednik-Lillibridge-Nix

That pretty much says it all about the current state of the White Sox.


But ask Hawk, this is the most talent and depth he has seen in a season.

Dibbs
05-13-2009, 03:30 PM
That's Phil Rogers' talk.

I don't care if it was Mariotti talk. It does sound pretty good right about now. I think the payroll savings will not offset the loss of attendance revenue.

downstairs
05-13-2009, 03:30 PM
One positive from this game: at least we got the loss over well before the evening.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Hey, soon it will be Quentin, Anderson, and Dye.

Not sure if it is related, but notice how the team has played worse without BA in CF..............

I wish CF defense was the problem with this team. Because if it were, Anderson's return would solve the problem.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:33 PM
I don't care if it was Mariotti talk. It does sound pretty good right about now. I think the payroll savings will not offset the loss of attendance revenue.

Vazquez: 3-3, 3.38 ERA, 1.144 WHIP
Cabrera: .238/.290/.270, 0 HR, 10 RBI, 1/4 SB
Swisher: .265/.392/.608, 8 HR, 21 RBI, 0/0 SB

Vazquez would look nice in our rotation right now, but otherwise... Meh.

Harry Chappas
05-13-2009, 03:34 PM
I'm taking a vacation from this team for a week or two. It's just not worth the frustration or anxiety.

It's one thing to under-achieve - there isn't a whole lot a GM can do about that. But this team is playing about how they're supposed to be playing...bad. The only people truly surprised are the kool-aid drinkers and Kenny.

Are we honestly surprised Fields is striking out at an alarming rate and is below average in the field? Are we surprised a 57-year pitcher coming off a horrific injury didn't succeed? Did we expect Wise and Anderson to suddenly morph into high average/high OBP guys? Was Thome suddenly going to stop pulling the ball into the shift and not run like a wounded rhino? We added NO ONE noteworthy to a team that did everything they could to choke away a playoff berth. Not only didn't we add anyone, but we subtracted a veteran/steady SS and an innings-eating veteran pitcher.

Kenny rolled the dice this year and hoped for miracles from Colon and Contreras with a contigency plan consisting of Marquez and Richard. He also didn't consider the possibility that the league would catch up to TCQ and TCM or that Getz would play like, well, a rookie.

I love KW and sometimes his gambles pay-off and sometimes they don't. But when they don't, it can get really ugly - like now.

Konerko05
05-13-2009, 03:35 PM
Vazquez: 3-3, 3.38 ERA, 1.144 WHIP
Cabrera: .238/.290/.270, 0 HR, 10 RBI, 1/4 SB
Swisher: .265/.392/.608, 8 HR, 21 RBI, 0/0 SB

Vazquez would look nice in our rotation right now, but otherwise... Meh.

Swisher has a 1.000 OPS.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:35 PM
Vazquez: 3-3, 3.38 ERA, 1.144 WHIP
Cabrera: .238/.290/.270, 0 HR, 10 RBI, 1/4 SB
Swisher: .265/.392/.608, 8 HR, 21 RBI, 0/0 SB

Vazquez would look nice in our rotation right now, but otherwise... Meh.

Swisher is on his way back to reality after a red-hot start.

johnnyg83
05-13-2009, 03:36 PM
Swisher: .265/.392/.608, 8 HR, 21 RBI, 0/0 SB
Meh.


Meh?

MetroPD
05-13-2009, 03:36 PM
I think its just fantastic the way our hitting has continued on since last year. Everyone knows the way to win ball games is by not being able to score runs.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:37 PM
Vazquez: 3-3, 3.38 ERA, 1.144 WHIP
Cabrera: .238/.290/.270, 0 HR, 10 RBI, 1/4 SB
Swisher: .265/.392/.608, 8 HR, 21 RBI, 0/0 SB

Vazquez would look nice in our rotation right now, but otherwise... Meh.


Sadly, Swisher is doing more than Thome and Quentin.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:39 PM
Swisher has a 1.000 OPS.

Swisher is on his way back to reality after a red-hot start.

Meh?

Last 2 weeks:

.188/.341/.500, 3 HR, 6 RBI, 14 K

Meh, same old Swisher.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Sadly, Swisher is doing more than Thome and Quentin.

At the end of the year, Quentin will DEFINITELY have better numbers than Swisher. My guess is Thome will, too. But health is always a little uncertain for Jim.

When Swisher was in a White Sox uniform, he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a ****ing boat. He is not missed.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Swisher is on his way back to reality after a red-hot start.

I think in that ballpark he will do just fine.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Sadly, Swisher is doing more than Thome and Quentin.

Thome, I'll give you, has been bad this year, but there's no possible way anyone could actually think Swisher will finish this year with better numbers than TCQ.

johnnyg83
05-13-2009, 03:41 PM
Last 2 weeks:

.188/.341/.500, 3 HR, 6 RBI, 14 K

Same old Swisher as last year.

We'll see.

But he would have been a good fill when Thome was hurt and a much better option than Lillibridge any time.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:41 PM
Last 2 weeks:

.188/.341/.500, 3 HR, 6 RBI, 14 K

Meh, same old Swisher.

As indicated, Swisher is on his way back to reality after a red-hot start.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:41 PM
At the end of the year, Quentin will DEFINITELY have better numbers than Swisher. My guess is Thome will, too. But health is always a little uncertain for Jim.

When Swisher was in a White Sox uniform, he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a ****ing boat. He is not missed.


I don't want Swisher back, don't get me wrong.

But Kenny got taken to the cleaners by the Yankees in that deal.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:41 PM
I think in that ballpark he will do just fine.

Then he really wouldn't be helping us much in our park, pouting while riding the bench behind Quentin, Dye, Thome, and Konerko.

johnnyg83
05-13-2009, 03:42 PM
I'm not saying I want him either. I just want him more than Lillibridge.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:42 PM
We'll see.

But he would have been a good fill when Thome was hurt and a much better option than Lillibridge any time.

Yeah, this team needs Swisher sulking on the bench.

Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to get rid of Lillibridge, but come on, Swisher is mediocre, folks.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:43 PM
Thome, I'll give you, has been bad this year, but there's no possible way anyone could actually think Swisher will finish this year with better numbers than TCQ.


I will be honest, I am very concerned with Quentin. He is too much of a head case for me just like Paulie.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:43 PM
I think in that ballpark he will do just fine.

The Sox home park is a pretty good place to hit, too.

I lost a lot of respect for Swisher last year. I liked it when the Sox acquired him. I was wrong.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:44 PM
I don't want Swisher back, don't get me wrong.

But Kenny got taken to the cleaners by the Yankees in that deal.

I don't know, Swisher had to go, it's not like KW had any choice to keep him and he was going to have to sell low since Swisher was so incredibly terrible last year. Honestly, I think Betemit's been fine coming off the bench, a role that Swisher likely would have had if he were still around.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:45 PM
I will be honest, I am very concerned with Quentin. He is too much of a head case for me just like Paulie.

Paul has had a pretty good career here, in spite of the mental funks he sometimes goes into. If Quentin duplicates what Konerko has done in his years on the South Side, I won't be disappointed.

Quentin has a great swing and a good approach. He's hit into some tough luck this year. I expect big things from Carlos as the year progresses.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't know, Swisher had to go, it's not like KW had any choice to keep him and he was going to have to sell low since Swisher was so incredibly terrible last year. Honestly, I think Betemit's been fine coming off the bench, a role that Swisher likely would have had if he were still around.

I will disagree with you on that.

The guy makes Jose Valentin look like a gold glove. And his hitting is not good enough to hold a "no glove" roster spot for him.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:48 PM
I will be honest, I am very concerned with Quentin. He is too much of a head case for me just like Paulie.

I'd be more worried about TCQ, but his BABip is hovering around .200 this year. He's been a lot of unlucky this year and not as much bad. He'll be fine.

I'd still rather let Quentin work his struggles out 100 times over before I'd ever want to see Nick Swisher on the Sox again.

beasly213
05-13-2009, 03:48 PM
Paul has had a pretty good career here, in spite of the mental funks he sometimes goes into. If Quentin duplicates what Konerko has done in his years on the South Side, I won't be disappointed.

Quentin has a great swing and a good approach. He's hit into some tough luck this year. I expect big things from Carlos as the year progresses.

As do I. He is just underneath a lot of balls and it should hopefully be a matter of time before he is back to form.

gobears1987
05-13-2009, 03:49 PM
I feel sorry for Ozzie having to pencil in these bums every day. He didn't build this team, Kenny did. I'm not saying I want Kenny fired, as he is a good GM when he doesn't let his ego make his decisions for him.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:49 PM
I will disagree with you on that.

The guy makes Jose Valentin look like a gold glove. And his hitting is not good enough to hold a "no glove" roster spot for him.

.281/.324/.438 isn't good enough for a utility infielder?

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:51 PM
.281/.324/.438 isn't good enough for a utility infielder?


Where are you getting the "infielder" part of it?

He is a utility bat.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 03:52 PM
These are all little problems, can we all agree that this is the biggest problem facing the Sox right now...

.275 BA (entering today's game) with RISP, 11th out of 14 teams in the AL and 22 points below the league average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=avg&split=39&group=7&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:56 PM
I feel sorry for Ozzie having to pencil in these bums every day. He didn't build this team, Kenny did. I'm not saying I want Kenny fired, as he is a good GM when he doesn't let his ego make his decisions for him.


This in addition to the powers above pulling his funding lines.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, a piss poor season like this one so far will hurt the Sox more financialy in the future with attendance than keeping a higher payroll would have. IMO there was no need and no back up plan to move Javy Vazquez. Orlando Hudson could have been signed cheaply. Swisher + others could have been packaged for an OK leadoff type hitter.

JB98
05-13-2009, 03:59 PM
These are all little problems, can we all agree that this is the biggest problem facing the Sox right now...

.275 BA (entering today's game) with RISP, 11th out of 14 teams in the AL and 22 points below the league average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=avg&split=39&group=7&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

I will certainly agree. It isn't just one or two hitters either. You look up and down the lineup, and there is just a chronic inability to deliver game-changing hits when RISP.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 03:59 PM
These are all little problems, can we all agree that this is the biggest problem facing the Sox right now...

.275 BA (entering today's game) with RISP, 11th out of 14 teams in the AL and 22 points below the league average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=avg&split=39&group=7&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg


Couldn't agree more.

Middle of the order is paid to thump, and so far nada.

The only way they coud have gotten around that would have been to pick up legitamate top of the order hitters who can create different type of offense in case of disaster type slup from the middle.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 04:11 PM
This in addition to the powers above pulling his funding lines.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, a piss poor season like this one so far will hurt the Sox more financialy in the future with attendance than keeping a higher payroll would have. IMO there was no need and no back up plan to move Javy Vazquez. Orlando Hudson could have been signed cheaply. Swisher + others could have been packaged for an OK leadoff type hitter.

Certainly this is subjective to each individual's opionion, but I think the Sox are taking the right approach to the transition from one era to another. Dye, Thome, Konerko, and Contreras, will all likely be gone by the 2011 season, and there's a chance Buehrle and Pierzynski will be, too. I know it's difficult to fathom in today's age of instant pleasure, but I think the Sox are taking the better approach by starting early to rebuild within. Look at the Barons lineup. It is stacked. There are quality players in this system that just need time to develop that will likely be the nucleus of the next decade of White Sox baseball.

The Sox are certainly hamstrung by some large, bloated contracts, but luckily most of them are coming to a close within the next 2 years (thank god, we don't have any Mike Hampton or Denny Neagle-sized deals), so yes, this year may be frustrating, but I think ultimately it will prove beneficial in the long-run.

Look at the Yankees, they can't buy a championship for all their cash. The teams that have been successful over the past few years have almost always exclusively been built from the ground up. Plugging a vet here or there is fine, but you can't expect to win every year if you're banking on finding the missing piece in free agency.

This team, however, could actually win some damn games this year if they could get some ****ing hits with runners on base, however. God damn.

guillensdisciple
05-13-2009, 04:16 PM
I have hope that the White Sox will pull out of this rut. When they explode, teams will run away in fear :D:.

I have said this and will continue saying it: we have the tools to win- all we need is to make sure these tools start working in harmony. Once this happens, this team will go from being shut out to winning games handily. Keep a positive attitude my friends, getting down about this will just lead to alcohol induced problems.

SoxGirl4Life
05-13-2009, 04:18 PM
I have hope that the White Sox will pull out of this rut. When they explode, teams will run away in fear :D:.

I have said this and will continue saying it: we have the tools to win- all we need is to make sure these tools start working in harmony. Once this happens, this team will go from being shut out to winning games handily. Keep a positive attitude my friends, getting down about this will just lead to alcohol induced problems.


I really hope people aren't THAT serious about this. Some perspective is important.

BadBobbyJenks
05-13-2009, 04:18 PM
These are all little problems, can we all agree that this is the biggest problem facing the Sox right now...

.275 BA (entering today's game) with RISP, 11th out of 14 teams in the AL and 22 points below the league average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=avg&split=39&group=7&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

Actually the biggest problem is that there could be an argument for several things being the Sox biggest problem. :(:

jabrch
05-13-2009, 04:19 PM
I think its just fantastic the way our hitting has continued on since last year. Everyone knows the way to win ball games is by not being able to score runs.

We were 5th in the league in runs scored last year. We scored runs just fine.

RCWHITESOX
05-13-2009, 04:23 PM
A month and a half in, and the Sox have yet to play back to back good games. Lillibridge better not play until he's sent down, when BA gets back. I'd like to see Nix at third until Fields can correct that God awful hitch in his swing, that doesn't allow him to catch up to major league fastballs. I still think they will win the division.

I'm with you but there going to have to get Floyd on track and come up with a 4Th starter and move Colon back to a 5Th starter. Also coming up with a legitamite CF would help.

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2009, 04:26 PM
Certainly this is subjective to each individual's opionion, but I think the Sox are taking the right approach to the transition from one era to another. Dye, Thome, Konerko, and Contreras, will all likely be gone by the 2011 season, and there's a chance Buehrle and Pierzynski will be, too. I know it's difficult to fathom in today's age of instant pleasure, but I think the Sox are taking the better approach by starting early to rebuild within. Look at the Barons lineup. It is stacked. There are quality players in this system that just need time to develop that will likely be the nucleus of the next decade of White Sox baseball.

The Sox are certainly hamstrung by some large, bloated contracts, but luckily most of them are coming to a close within the next 2 years (thank god, we don't have any Mike Hampton or Denny Neagle-sized deals), so yes, this year may be frustrating, but I think ultimately it will prove beneficial in the long-run.

Look at the Yankees, they can't buy a championship for all their cash. The teams that have been successful over the past few years have almost always exclusively been built from the ground up. Plugging a vet here or there is fine, but you can't expect to win every year if you're banking on finding the missing piece in free agency.

This team, however, could actually win some damn games this year if they could get some ****ing hits with runners on base, however. God damn.

Maybe I'm just blinded by my love of them, but if there are two guys on this roster I'd love to see retire here and I think can continue to put up good contributions for awhile, it's Buehrle and AJ. I think that Flowers is the future obviously, but he's still a couple of years away. I think that AJ could still serve some purpose off the bench. As for Buehrle, man, that guy could pitch well into his forties and still be effective. I'd keep him.

veeter
05-13-2009, 04:26 PM
The Sox are 12th in the league IN WHIP, so they are putting plenty of men on base, yet the defense is failing to turn some key double plays. Today was a perfect example. Failure to turn a DP led to a three-run homer by Garko.Was there an error? Was the ball bobbled?

october23sp
05-13-2009, 04:28 PM
This ****ing sucks right now.

doublem23
05-13-2009, 04:33 PM
Maybe I'm just blinded by my love of them, but if there are two guys on this roster I'd love to see retire here and I think can continue to put up good contributions for awhile, it's Buehrle and AJ. I think that Flowers is the future obviously, but he's still a couple of years away. I think that AJ could still serve some purpose off the bench. As for Buehrle, man, that guy could pitch well into his forties and still be effective. I'd keep him.

Buehrle, I hope, will be here as long as he wants. I know he doesn't throw up sexy numbers, but there's a lot to be said for a guy that shows up every 5th day and gets the job done. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy that will stay way past his usefullness (looking at you, Big Unit) so I'm hoping he doesn't price himself away from the Sox after his current deal expires. Buehrle will only be 31 when his deal runs out after 2011. I certainly hope the Sox realize how special a pitcher he is this day in age.

AJ's contract expires after next year. He will turn 34 years old the winter between 2010 and 2011 and he's caught 120 games every year since 2002 with the exception of 2004 (when he only caugh 118 games). I love the guy and his role he's played here since 2005, but catchers don't have a history of aging well.

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2009, 04:35 PM
Buehrle, I hope, will be here as long as he wants. I know he doesn't throw up sexy numbers, but there's a lot to be said for a guy that shows up every 5th day and gets the job done. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy that will stay way past his usefullness (looking at you, Big Unit) so I'm hoping he doesn't price himself away from the Sox after his current deal expires.

AJ's contract expires after next year. He will turn 34 years old the winter between 2010 and 2011 and he's caught 120 games every year since 2002 with the exception of 2004 (when he only caugh 118 games). I love the guy and his role he's played here since 2005, but catchers don't have a history of aging well.
Very true, but I'm hoping that he will stick around and I hope he walks away soon and doesn't stick around like Fisk did (although Fisk was a faaaar better catcher than AJ) to the point where it's embarrassing to watch him play.

thomas35forever
05-13-2009, 04:37 PM
These are all little problems, can we all agree that this is the biggest problem facing the Sox right now...

.275 BA (entering today's game) with RISP, 11th out of 14 teams in the AL and 22 points below the league average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=avg&split=39&group=7&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg
Even worse, the Sox are tied for last in the AL in RBIs w/ RISP and last in the AL in runs scored in the same situation. If this offense doesn't wake up, we're in for a long season.

CHISOXFAN13
05-13-2009, 04:44 PM
Was there an error? Was the ball bobbled?

Did you watch the game?

You say bad teams put more base runners on and hence turn more double plays. We have put the third most men on base in the AL and are last in turning double plays.

I've proved my argument. I'm still waiting for you to actually have a point. Looks like I'll be waiting for a while.

WhiteSox5187
05-13-2009, 04:49 PM
Did you watch the game?

You say bad teams put more base runners on and hence turn more double plays. We have put the third most men on base in the AL and are last in turning double plays.

I've proved my argument. I'm still waiting for you to actually have a point. Looks like I'll be waiting for a while.

To be fair though, Buerhle is never going to strike out a lot of guys, he's going to have the ball put in play so if you put out a piss poor defense it's going to hurt him.

veeter
05-13-2009, 05:10 PM
Did you watch the game?

You say bad teams put more base runners on and hence turn more double plays. We have put the third most men on base in the AL and are last in turning double plays.

I've proved my argument. I'm still waiting for you to actually have a point. Looks like I'll be waiting for a while.I watched every pitch. The grounder you're talking about was a slow bouncer to Josh. He fielded it cleanly, threw a strike to Nix, Nix touched second, then threw a strike to Konerko. Because it was a slow developing play, Cabrera beat the relay throw. Today's loss was strictly on the offense. That's my point.

Konerko05
05-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Defense was one my biggest concerns before the season started.

It has been even worse than I expected.

Yet somehow it has been completely over shadowed by three holes in the starting rotation and a non existent offense.

Things are not well.

BigP50
05-13-2009, 05:24 PM
I think its funny that we have played this bad and are only 3 games out of 1st place:bandance:

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 05:34 PM
I think its funny that we have played this bad and are only 3 games out of 1st place:bandance:


Speaks highly of our division. :rolleyes:

BigP50
05-13-2009, 05:35 PM
Speaks highly of our division. :rolleyes:

I really don't care what other people think of our division, as long as we win it :D:

Konerko05
05-13-2009, 05:37 PM
Speaks highly of our division. :rolleyes:

Translate those winning percentages over 162 games.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 05:58 PM
I really don't care what other people think of our division, as long as we win it :D:


I don't care either but I think strong division usually makes you a better contender in the playoffs. With the exception the '87 Twins and the '06 Cardinals. Sucky divisions, sucky W/L records, but they got the ultimate prize.

MarySwiss
05-13-2009, 05:58 PM
I really don't care what other people think of our division, as long as we win it :D:

And that really is the point, isn't it? And that's why I refuse to get too worked up this early in the season. As of now, it looks like this is going to be a five-team race, but we'll see how the season unfolds.

kittle42
05-13-2009, 06:14 PM
And that really is the point, isn't it?

Yes, but it disappoints me that KW has gotten our fanbase to believe the mentality that compiling a team that may be barely (and by barely, I mean having to play 163 games barely) good enough to beat the other garbage in our division is good enough. Build a goddamn team that looks like it has a good chance to win the World Series, not one that *might* squeak into the playoffs "if everything breaks right," then has to "crapshoot" its way past better teams in the playoffs.

This method sucks. But, when you have the 'ol $0.50, it's all you've got.

Ranger
05-13-2009, 06:21 PM
That's Greg Walker for you.

The guy's only tool is his feet, and yet no one in that coaching staff has made mention to him on a different way to attack the ball.


No, they've told him. They've been telling him. Ozzie even talked about it today, saying something along the lines of , "we've told him he can do it his way and probably end up in the minors or he can do it our way and make $10 to $15 million playing this game."

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 06:28 PM
Yes, but it disappoints me that KW has gotten our fanbase to believe the mentality that compiling a team that may be barely (and by barely, I mean having to play 163 games barely) good enough to beat the other garbage in our division is good enough. Build a goddamn team that looks like it has a good chance to win the World Series, not one that *might* squeak into the playoffs "if everything breaks right," then has to "crapshoot" its way past better teams in the playoffs.

This method sucks. But, when you have the 'ol $0.50, it's all you've got.


Kittle,

You're the Brown's Chicken caller of the show!

It sickens me that our fan base and management has become complacent with being mediocre and "just good enough." I thought our standards would be raised after 2005 but I guess I was wrong.

I want us to be a very good team, not just an average team barely winning bad division races.


But I do have to agree with Mary Swis and others, the season is still very young and we can turn this around. Our 3 big key players IMO to turn this thing around and in this order:

1. Gavin - Needs to give us 200 innings and keep us in games
2. Quentin - We need MVP type numbers from him with so many holes in the line up
3. Alexei - He is looking too much like Juan Uribe and we can't have that.


We get those 3 guys going and things might start heading in the right direction.

LoveYourSuit
05-13-2009, 06:31 PM
No, they've told him. They've been telling him. Ozzie even talked about it today, saying something along the lines of , "we've told him he can do it his way and probably end up in the minors or he can do it our way and make $10 to $15 million playing this game."


Did not know this converation took place already.

Wow, speaks heavily of the make-up of this kid. They already brought this up to his attention and hasn't changed one lick. :o:

He's in the doghouse, and should be gone soon.

Good to hear.

DirtySox
05-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Ozzie says we strike out too much. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-14-white-sox-indians-chicagomay14,0,5397195.story)

Frater Perdurabo
05-13-2009, 09:20 PM
Ozzie says we strike out too much. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-14-white-sox-indians-chicagomay14,0,5397195.story)

And ground out, and GIDP, and pop out, and fly out...

JB98
05-13-2009, 09:23 PM
And ground out, and GIDP, and pop out, and fly out...

The Sox are toward the bottom of the league in GIDPs -- they don't ever have anybody on base.

Frater Perdurabo
05-13-2009, 09:30 PM
The Sox are toward the bottom of the league in GIDPs -- they don't ever have anybody on base.

See, Greg Walker IS having a positive influence!

DSpivack
05-13-2009, 09:31 PM
The Sox are toward the bottom of the league in GIDPs -- they don't ever have anybody on base.

See, Greg Walker IS having a positive influence!

Well, JB brings up a good point that they can't lead the league in a cumulative if they never have anyone on base. However, I wonder as a percentage of runners on base or however you want to do it, what that would be.

DonnieDarko
05-13-2009, 09:33 PM
I notice popouts more than strikeouts, but Josh Fields needs time off, and Lillibridge needs to be sent to AAA Charlotte. Thome, Dye, are gonna strike out a lot. Konerko even does, IIRC, but he's been better at that this year...but hasn't been going for the fences.

In a way, it's like the sluggers are trying to play smarter ball ('cept for Thome, but he's hurt), but can't get past some of their old tendancies. Getz is refreshing to see, and Josh has shown flashes, but just lost it recently. Nix needs a shot at 3B for a few games, Betemit needs to be gone...anything else?

JB98
05-13-2009, 09:33 PM
Well, JB brings up a good point that they can't lead the league in a cumulative if they never have anyone on base. However, I wonder as a percentage of runners on base or however you want to do it, what that would be.

Here are the numbers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2009-situational-batting.shtml

They are eight teams in the AL that have more GIDPs than the Sox. The Sox have GIDPs in 9 percent of possible GIDP situations. That's actually below the league average of 11 percent.

DSpivack
05-13-2009, 09:40 PM
Here are the numbers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2009-situational-batting.shtml

They are eight teams in the AL that have more GIDPs than the Sox. The Sox have GIDPs in 9 percent of possible GIDP situations. That's actually below the league average of 11 percent.

Thanks for looking it up. Oddly enough, the Sox are 5th in opportunities.

Jim Shorts
05-13-2009, 09:47 PM
Did not know this converation took place already.

Wow, speaks heavily of the make-up of this kid. They already brought this up to his attention and hasn't changed one lick. :o:

He's in the doghouse, and should be gone soon.

Good to hear.

Apologies upfront, but who are you talking about?

DirtySox
05-13-2009, 09:49 PM
Lillibridge. And he's been talked to more than once about his approach and shortening his swing. It isn't something new.

JB98
05-13-2009, 09:54 PM
Thanks for looking it up. Oddly enough, the Sox are 5th in opportunities.

Sometimes we forget that they actually have had a few games where they've had a ****load of baserunners. Take that 8-7 extra-inning loss in KC, for instance. The Sox had 16 hits and 21 men reached base or something like that.

The failures with RISP are the most damning offensive statistic for the Sox. As Doub pointed out earlier, the Sox are hitting 22 points below the league average in that department.

Jim Shorts
05-13-2009, 09:55 PM
Lillibridge. And he's been talked to more than once about his approach and shortening his swing. It isn't something new.

Thought so. Hell, Stoney say's it everytime he comes to the plate....

"he needs to hit it on the ground and not in the air..."

Thx, Dirty.

Jim Shorts
05-13-2009, 09:57 PM
Sometimes we forget that they actually have had a few games where they've had a ****load of baserunners. Take that 8-7 extra-inning loss in KC, for instance. The Sox had 16 hits and 21 men reached base or something like that.

The failures with RISP are the most damning offensive statistic for the Sox. As Doub pointed out earlier, the Sox are hitting 22 points below the league average in that department.

Yep. 21 reached and 15 were left in scoring position.

That there, friends, is a problem.

Tragg
05-13-2009, 11:33 PM
Outfield at one point late in the game:

Podsednik-Lillibridge-Nix

That pretty much says it all about the current state of the White Sox.
That's just not a serious effort. Essentially that's 3 minor leaguers.
How is it that the Sox, for the 2nd time in 3 years, have so many organizational minor league talent on the major league team?

doublem23
05-13-2009, 11:43 PM
Yes, but it disappoints me that KW has gotten our fanbase to believe the mentality that compiling a team that may be barely (and by barely, I mean having to play 163 games barely) good enough to beat the other garbage in our division is good enough. Build a goddamn team that looks like it has a good chance to win the World Series, not one that *might* squeak into the playoffs "if everything breaks right," then has to "crapshoot" its way past better teams in the playoffs.

This method sucks. But, when you have the 'ol $0.50, it's all you've got.

That's because we've seen plenty of teams limp to the playoffs and look utterly overmatched and then go on a run. We've seen teams have great regular seasons and then meekly exit. All this chest-thumping talk about "we should build for the World Series" is just nonsense. You win your division, you're a contender for the World Series. It's the sample, people.

The 2001 Mariners were one of the greatest regular season teams of all time. They didn't even win the American League pennant. The 2006 Cardinals were literally the worst team to ever qualify for the postseason in baseball history. They won the World Series, defeating 2 teams that had won 10+ more games than they did during the regular season. The playoffs break every rule about baseball logic that exists. There is no rhyme or reason as to why anything happens in the postseason. You just need to show up.

kittle42
05-13-2009, 11:52 PM
The 2001 Mariners were one of the greatest regular season teams of all time. They didn't even win the American League pennant. The 2006 Cardinals were literally the worst team to ever qualify for the postseason in baseball history. They won the World Series, defeating 2 teams that had won 10+ more games than they did during the regular season. The playoffs break every rule about baseball logic that exists. There is no rhyme or reason as to why anything happens in the postseason. You just need to show up.

Yes, but I bet you more of those "built to win the WS teams" actually make the playoffs to start with, that's for sure.

jabrch
05-13-2009, 11:53 PM
Yes, but it disappoints me that KW has gotten our fanbase to believe the mentality that compiling a team that may be barely (and by barely, I mean having to play 163 games barely) good enough to beat the other garbage in our division is good enough. Build a goddamn team that looks like it has a good chance to win the World Series, not one that *might* squeak into the playoffs "if everything breaks right," then has to "crapshoot" its way past better teams in the playoffs.

This method sucks. But, when you have the 'ol $0.50, it's all you've got.

I'd much rather be the Red Sox or the Yankees. When our fans are ready to put 4mm people through the turnstyles at prices 3-5 times what we are currently paying for tickets, let me know.

My seats, 117, R24, are about $35 a ticket. I'll pay that price. Want them at Wrigley, NYY or BOS? 90-125$ per @ Fenway, $350 @ Yankee Stadium and $65 @ Wrigley. I wouldn't have season tickets at any of those parks.

Raise your hand if you want to pay those prices with absolutely no guarantee of anything better than what you have today...

TomParrish79
05-14-2009, 09:13 AM
We have had too many good hitters struggling and looking clueless at the plate for the last 3 years....we need a new hitting philosophy which means we probably need someone new as our hitting coach. Sorry just had to throw in my two cents, i will go back to just reading posts now.

Jurr
05-14-2009, 12:29 PM
That's just not a serious effort. Essentially that's 3 minor leaguers.
How is it that the Sox, for the 2nd time in 3 years, have so many organizational minor league talent on the major league team?
Well, that's because funds have been allocated towards aging veterans that are here to produce power numbers. We have Thome and Konerko taking up a TON of payroll space and Contreras making bushels of cash to work on his forkball in Charlotte. Ick. There's just not a whole lot of room for anything else.
This team will get better when at least two of those contracts are off the books. The Sox are not the Yankees. They cannot afford to have 10+million in annual salary for a player that doesn't produce at a high level. I'm not talking about "a good level for that player", I'm talking about upper echelon production. For 10 mil a year, you need to be in All-Star consideration. We're not getting that from Konerko, Thome, or Contreras.

The year the Sox won the WS, they had a lot of players with very manageable contracts. Money was evenly distributed amongst the position players, and every position was fielded by a competent player. This roster just doesn't have flexibility right now.

LoveYourSuit
05-14-2009, 12:57 PM
That's because we've seen plenty of teams limp to the playoffs and look utterly overmatched and then go on a run. We've seen teams have great regular seasons and then meekly exit. All this chest-thumping talk about "we should build for the World Series" is just nonsense. You win your division, you're a contender for the World Series. It's the sample, people.

The 2001 Mariners were one of the greatest regular season teams of all time. They didn't even win the American League pennant. The 2006 Cardinals were literally the worst team to ever qualify for the postseason in baseball history. They won the World Series, defeating 2 teams that had won 10+ more games than they did during the regular season. The playoffs break every rule about baseball logic that exists. There is no rhyme or reason as to why anything happens in the postseason. You just need to show up.

Come one Double, don't believe this crock of **** and don't try to lie to yourself.

The '06 Cardinals and the '87 Twins are the lone exceptions in baseball history to have sucked bad in the regular season and win the World Series.

That's 2 WS out of 100. 98% of the time real good teams will win the World Series.

This "just get in" nonesense when you suck it's like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

doublem23
05-14-2009, 01:17 PM
Come one Double, don't believe this crock of **** and don't try to lie to yourself.

The '06 Cardinals and the '87 Twins are the lone exceptions in baseball history to have sucked bad in the regular season and win the World Series.

That's 2 WS out of 100. 98% of the time real good teams will win the World Series.

This "just get in" nonesense when you suck it's like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

You can't compare the World Series and playoffs before divisional play started in 1969 and you certainly can't compare what has happened since 1995 and the abomination known as the divisional rounds. If you can't recognize how drastically different the postseason is in baseball now compared to the 1950s, then we'll just need to agree to disagree.

You're correct, the before 1969, the World Series was an actual competition between the two proven best teams in each league. They proved their salt over the course of a six-month, 154- or 162-game season. Especially since 1995, weaker teams that never would have had a chance before have been given new life by the bastardized extra round of playoffs, diluting the competition and, since then, the World Series has featured the best teams from each league twice, 1995 and 1999. Conversely, in that same time span, 6 times, the World Series featured neither team that finished with the league's best record.

You have to be good enough to win your division, but you don't need to be the best team in the league any more to win the pennant, or even World Series.

kittle42
05-14-2009, 01:35 PM
For 10 mil a year, you need to be in All-Star consideration.

That's no longer realistic major league baseball thinking.

jabrch
05-14-2009, 02:01 PM
That's no longer realistic major league baseball thinking.


:welcome:

areilly
05-14-2009, 02:13 PM
That's no longer realistic major league baseball thinking.

I think the $10MM was $10MM in Soxbucks, which using the accepted $0.50-to-$1.00 Soxbucks-to-USD exchange rate is a $20MM player.

kittle42
05-14-2009, 02:23 PM
I think the $10MM was $10MM in Soxbucks, which using the accepted $0.50-to-$1.00 Soxbucks-to-USD exchange rate is a $20MM player.

Now *that* makes sense! Love it.

WhiteSox5187
05-14-2009, 02:39 PM
That's no longer realistic major league baseball thinking.

Actually, with the way the market was this off season, it might be. But, that could change.