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View Full Version : Management Approval Ratings: Greg Walker


doublem23
05-08-2009, 02:28 PM
It's the one I'm sure you've all been waiting for. What do you think about Greg Walker as hitting coach of the White Sox?

Vote above, elaborate below.

oeo
05-08-2009, 02:39 PM
We have to have the most inconsistent offense in baseball every year. And you can no longer use the excuse that this is just a bunch of old guys out of their prime, because as Dye, AJ, and Konerko have been proving, they're not finished.

Frater Perdurabo
05-08-2009, 02:42 PM
My thoughts are well-documented elsewhere.

FielderJones
05-08-2009, 02:54 PM
After listening to the Walk interview on AM1000 yesterday afternoon, I am no longer convinced that his WSI detractors have actually heard him tell hitters to close their eyes and swing as hard as they can.

oeo
05-08-2009, 03:00 PM
After listening to the Walk interview on AM1000 yesterday afternoon, I am no longer convinced that his WSI detractors have actually heard him tell hitters to close their eyes and swing as hard as they can.

Actually, I question what he tells them at all. All I've ever heard him say is he likes to let players go through the motions themselves.

Hitmen77
05-08-2009, 04:34 PM
We have to have the most inconsistent offense in baseball every year. And you can no longer use the excuse that this is just a bunch of old guys out of their prime, because as Dye, AJ, and Konerko have been proving, they're not finished.

That's the most damning part. Players come and go and yet our offense is the same all-or-nothing, fail to execute offense year in and year out.

If Walker has absolutely no responsibility in this (as some fans here seem to suggest), then I have to wonder what the hell he is account able for.

Domeshot17
05-08-2009, 04:37 PM
Typical sheep, blame the scapegoat, not the guy who creates and puts together the roster

Weve heard guys like Anderson, AJ, Konerko, all speak very very higly of Walk. We have seen crap minor league hitters like Dewayne Wise be productive under him, we won a world series with one of the worst DH's in baseball.

doublem23
05-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Typical sheep, blame the scapegoat, not the guy who creates and puts together the roster

So Walker is completely blameless for the fact that our offense has the 2nd worst BA in the American League, 3rd worst OBP, and 4th worst slugging percentaage? Or that we've been shut out 4 times already this season and held to 1 run 3 more times?

P.S., the argument can easily be made that you're making KW/Ozzie scapegoats for Walk's failures as a hitting coach.

oeo
05-08-2009, 05:05 PM
Typical sheep, blame the scapegoat, not the guy who creates and puts together the roster

Typical Domeshot, he knows all.

russ99
05-08-2009, 06:18 PM
That's the most damning part. Players come and go and yet our offense is the same all-or-nothing, fail to execute offense year in and year out.

If Walker has absolutely no responsibility in this (as some fans here seem to suggest), then I have to wonder what the hell he is account able for.

While I'm not keen on the job Walker's done, I wonder if the overall organization's hitting philosophy (homers over everything else) has tied his hands a bit.

And even if the Sox fire Walker, would that philosophy then change?

Rdy2PlayBall
05-08-2009, 06:39 PM
Yes. Some people just have a REALLY hard time believing that a player on the Sox just can't hit .650 with runners in scoring position and 1.000 with someone on 3rd with two outs.

You think if the Nationals hitting coach went to the Yankees that they would have a terrible offense? No.

DonnieDarko
05-08-2009, 06:42 PM
...would it occur to anyone who doesn't like Greg Walker that maybe it's the players that Kenny gives him to coach that make the team inconsistent? The all-or-nothing approach is what we've hired guys like Konerko, Dye, Thome and Quentin for.

asindc
05-08-2009, 07:00 PM
Yes. Some people just have a REALLY hard time believing that a player on the Sox just can't hit .650 with runners in scoring position and 1.000 with someone on 3rd with two outs.

You think if the Nationals hitting coach went to the Yankees that they would have a terrible offense? No.

Um, the Nats are a good hitting team. They just can't pitch for ****.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-08-2009, 07:02 PM
Um, the Nats are a good hitting team. They just can't pitch for ****.Ok. I'm sorry? Is that what you are looking for? You get my point.

oeo
05-08-2009, 07:06 PM
Yes. Some people just have a REALLY hard time believing that a player on the Sox just can't hit .650 with runners in scoring position and 1.000 with someone on 3rd with two outs.

What the hell are you talking about? Some people expect consistency. Some people expect the hitting coach to help young guys actually improve upon their weaknesses. Some people want a hitting coach that does something, anything to get some good approaches off of a guy we've never seen before. I could go on if you'd like...

Daver
05-08-2009, 07:07 PM
I don't think some people here know what a hitting coach's actual job is, aside from being a decent card player.

thedudeabides
05-08-2009, 07:11 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Some people expect consistency. Some people expect the hitting coach to help young guys actually improve upon their weaknesses. Some people want a hitting coach that does something, anything to get some good approaches off of a guy we've never seen before. I could go on if you'd like...

He has a pretty good track record with young hitters, which to me is the most important aspect of a hitting coaches job.

It's not really a discussion I feel like getting into again, as I've posted several times about it, but the hitting coach really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the Sox, and plenty of other teams, struggles when they see a pitcher for the first time.

asindc
05-08-2009, 07:32 PM
Ok. I'm sorry? Is that what you are looking for? You get my point.

I was not looking for an apology, if that's what you mean. I just got the impression that you thought that the Nats sucked because they can't hit.

HebrewHammer
05-08-2009, 07:54 PM
He has a pretty good track record with young hitters, which to me is the most important aspect of a hitting coaches job.

What young hitters are we talking about?

Judging by Walker's career, the most important aspect of a hitting coach is to remember the pretzels for Ozzie's poker game.

doublem23
05-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Yes. Some people just have a REALLY hard time believing that a player on the Sox just can't hit .650 with runners in scoring position and 1.000 with someone on 3rd with two outs.

We're currently hitting .260 as a team, 9 points below the AL average, good enough for 13th out of the 14 teams. With RISP, we're hitting .258, 21 points below the AL average, and 11th out of 14 teams.

I guess some people are amazed the Sox hit better than .200 and .150 w/ RISP. Everything else is gravy!

thedudeabides
05-08-2009, 08:30 PM
What young hitters are we talking about?

Judging by Walker's career, the most important aspect of a hitting coach is to remember the pretzels for Ozzie's poker game.

Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Carlos Quentin, Paul Konerko(he attributed Walker with turning his career around after 2003), a great transition from a foreign league for Tadahito Iguchi and Alexei Ramirez(Not a whole lot of success for Japanese and Cuban players their first year in MLB). Good early results this year for Josh Fields, Brian Anderson, and Chris Getz.

Where are the hitters that have gotten noticably worse under Walker and thrived elsewhere after they left?

But, he's here to bring the pretzels to the poker game. Because, Ozzie and Kenny have never gotten rid of a position or base coach before. :rolleyes:

Tragg
05-08-2009, 09:55 PM
At least the team stayed aggressive tonight against the Rangers, just like Greg and Ozzie like.
Through the first 5, Christie Harrison only threw 51 pitches and the Sox didn't waste any at bats by taking a walk.

JB98
05-08-2009, 10:05 PM
I think the players are doing a very poor job of swinging the bats so far this season, but Walker is accountable as well. I voted no.

...
05-08-2009, 10:42 PM
**** you Greg Walker.

LoveYourSuit
05-08-2009, 10:47 PM
Well, the Toronto trip is coming. The Blow-up Dolls need to make a visit.

oeo
05-08-2009, 10:48 PM
He has a pretty good track record with young hitters, which to me is the most important aspect of a hitting coaches job.

Who did he get this track record from?

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-09-2009, 12:13 AM
I'm really surprised he has as many approvals as he does.

Nellie_Fox
05-09-2009, 12:15 AM
Judging by Walker's career, the most important aspect of a hitting coach is to remember the pretzels for Ozzie's poker game.I love it when people talk like they are "in the know" about what goes on in the White Sox clubhouse.

TheOldRoman
05-09-2009, 12:28 AM
Actually, I question what he tells them at all. All I've ever heard him say is he likes to let players go through the motions themselves.Yep. He feels it is up to the players to watch tapes and figure it out themselves. He isn't ****ing Yoda, where his wise questions will lead hitters to an epiphany. Collecting a few hundred grand to say "I dunno, figure it out yourself" doesn't seem like a contribution to the team. For the jabs we have all taken at his hitting technique, I am not sure he has one.

He is horrible at gameplanning, as evidenced by how many horrible pitchers, career journeymen, minor league call ups, and mediocre lefties to shut us down during his tenure. I vividly remember him being asked about how he plans to face Santana, and he said "He is so good that you can't possibly plan against him, so if you do plan against him, you will actually do worse. You just have to do up there and swing." Clearly, it worked.

He is also horrible at making adjustments. Going into a game with a bad plan is one thing, but when the pitcher is throwing the same crap by the hitters the second or third time through the order, that is inexcusable. Watching our entire lineup flail and miss at a slider two feet outside from Joe Mays is not acceptable. Despite what people on here think, the entire lineup isn't made up of NFL offensive lineman. Not all our hitter are "slow, slump prone power hitters". Nevertheless, we go into horrendous slumps. And when we do, he is unable to help the hitters make adjustments to get out of it. Without firsthand knowledge of other teams, I would be willing to bet that no other teams has had the entire team slump for over a month for each of the last four years. Saying "they will swing the bat better when it heats up" isn't enough. Of course, we will win a lot of 12-2 games later this year, so our offensive numbers will look respectable by the end.

Whether or not it is his fault, something needs to be done. Someone has to pay for this horrible performance. The Sox were lucky enough to weather out the storm last season, but they might not be able to put up with a month and a half of no offense and still win the division this year. There needs to be accountability. I don't know anyone outside of an appointed government employee who enjoys such job security. At what point is his held accountable for what he is paid to do?

Domeshot17
05-09-2009, 01:25 AM
Theoldroman- Just a heads up, this was discussed like a year or so ago at a WCSF luncheon I went to with my Father in Law. Walker has very little to do with planning versus opposing pitchers. Ozzie gives that job to Joey Cora as the bench coach.

Part of me wishes Walker would get fired. I mean, nothing at all would change. Jim Thome isn't all of the sudden going to start hitting against the shift. Josh Fields isn't going to turn into Chipper. Alexei isn't going to turn into a patient hitter. It would just expose what we already know, Walker is a fall guy.

It is also why Ozzie and Kenny keep him around. They know it isn't his fault these guys don't produce. They listen to to players who work with him who like him a lot vs the fans who think he should turn these guys into something they aren't.

It is going to be hard for him this year especially, he has a lot of young kids. Young kids at the MLB level are going to be aggressive. They don't know how to work themselves into a fastball count so they tend to swing early when they get a fastball. It also means they hit a lot of "pitchers pitches".

I guess I still don't get it. First the Fire Walker Crowd bitches because These veteran hitters don't transform into different types of hitters than they are. Then they say well fine, Veterans don't listen, but whats he done with the kids. But when you look, this is the first year we play ANY kids. The kids haven't been the problem as much as the Vets.

The real problem with our offense is we have a bad combination of rookies, rookies who aren't really any good, injuries, and veterans on the wrong side of their career. We have 1 hitter entering his prime in Quentin and no one can say how good he is going to be. Is he the MVP hitter he was last year, Is he a low average high power hitter of this year, or is he in the middle?

I would buy the belief Walker might not be the coach to take kids to the next level, but this is the first year hes been asked to do it and he hasn't done poorly. What I hate is the thought process that says because Jim Thome strikes out a lot and because Dye is getting old Walker sucks. There is only 1 reliable offensive force in our lineup right now. That isn't on Walker.

Domeshot17
05-09-2009, 01:33 AM
So Walker is completely blameless for the fact that our offense has the 2nd worst BA in the American League, 3rd worst OBP, and 4th worst slugging percentaage? Or that we've been shut out 4 times already this season and held to 1 run 3 more times?

P.S., the argument can easily be made that you're making KW/Ozzie scapegoats for Walk's failures as a hitting coach.

Replace Walker, nothing much will change. Lillibridge will still suck. He was Kennys diamond in the rough this year. Fields will still be Fields. Thome will continue to be on the last breaths of his career same with Dye.

Force Kenny to add a LEGIT .300 hitter to this lineup. Force Kenny to Add pieces that fit. Force Kenny to get a real lead off man, guys who have offensive value beyond the home run, have a BALANCED lineup.

Which is going to have more of an impact?

Edit: and here is more of my problem. I don't think Walker is Blameless. But take away an over the hill Thome who isn't going to listen to Walker much (as has been determined) and take away an over matched Lillibridge (who just isn't a good ball player at all, and has zero offensive talent, which was also his MO in Atlanta) and the Sox are hitting 272 and not 260. Take Corky Miller out of that mix and its 274 with the other numbers also taking nice jumps. Lillibridge had no reason to make this team outside he was Kenny's boy. Kenny has been hyping him since we got him.

Like I said, I don't hold Walker blameless. There is a lot he can improve. But canning him isn't going to do any good unless you are bringing in a top flight hitting coach. I personally see the move coming next offseason, with possibly the Big Hurt getting the token nod. Until then, we know we didn't have a championship team this year, so let Walker keep working with the kids who matter. Its working wih Getz, Anderson, he was good with Quentin last year, let him do it. I just personally don't see much to work with here. If Thome would stop trying to hit a home run every at bat our team numbers would be much better.

oeo
05-09-2009, 02:29 AM
Replace Walker, nothing much will change. Lillibridge will still suck. He was Kennys diamond in the rough this year. Fields will still be Fields. Thome will continue to be on the last breaths of his career same with Dye.

Force Kenny to add a LEGIT .300 hitter to this lineup. Force Kenny to Add pieces that fit. Force Kenny to get a real lead off man, guys who have offensive value beyond the home run, have a BALANCED lineup.

Which is going to have more of an impact?

Once again, this isn't a lineup of a bunch of one-dimensional hitters. Stop making it out to be.

I feel like a good hitting coach will stress the specifics everyday. Rudy Jaramillo: up the middle, other way...look at those Rangers hit.

BTW, Getz isn't a 'real' leadoff hitter? What is, then? He's done exactly what we need from the leadoff spot.

Edit: and here is more of my problem. I don't think Walker is Blameless. But take away an over the hill Thome who isn't going to listen to Walker much (as has been determined) and take away an over matched Lillibridge (who just isn't a good ball player at all, and has zero offensive talent, which was also his MO in Atlanta) and the Sox are hitting 272 and not 260. Take Corky Miller out of that mix and its 274 with the other numbers also taking nice jumps. Lillibridge had no reason to make this team outside he was Kenny's boy. Kenny has been hyping him since we got him. And the fact that we had no one else? Lillibridge wouldn't have made the team if Nix was healthy. Who did you want to be the utility guy? Were we going to pull a rabbit from our ass? I don't even know why you brought this up because Lillibridge was brought to be nothing more than a utility man. We've been forced to play him due to injury.

Its working wih Getz, Anderson, he was good with Quentin last year, let him do it. I just personally don't see much to work with here. If Thome would stop trying to hit a home run every at bat our team numbers would be much better.I fail to see how Walker helped Quentin last year. No hitting coach is going to have that kind of impact in a couple of weeks, let alone a bad one.

Getz is another guy that hasn't been around very long...he's doing exactly what he's done his entire career, anyway. Anderson has been here forever, yet has made little progress, if any.

Since you decided to single Lillibridge out for whatever reason: there's a guy Walker can actually earn his due with. I believe Kenny even called him a bit of a project when he acquired him. Get Lillibridge to shorten up, start hitting more line drives and ground balls instead of flying out, and make use of his tremendous speed. If he can do this, the K's will go down, as well. Let's see what Walk does...probably nothing.

Soxfest
05-09-2009, 06:13 AM
This is a no brainer Walker HAS to go now! Sox to be shut out this much the first month is an absolute joke for a MLB team! This has been a problem a long time now!:angry:

Frater Perdurabo
05-09-2009, 06:46 AM
I don't think some people here know what a hitting coach's actual job is, aside from being a decent card player.

What is Walker's job?

Is it his job to work with the hitters to help them maximize their performance?

Or is it his job to play cards?

Tragg
05-09-2009, 09:13 AM
Has he improved Alexei?
Maybe he has I don't know. Because Alexei is a player with a lot of talent that a good hitting coach could do a lot with.

I feel like a good hitting coach will stress the specifics everyday. Rudy Jaramillo: up the middle, other way...look at those Rangers hit.

I don't know whether Walker is or isn't doing it, but he should.
I would think that would be consistent with Ozzie's notions of "moving runners up" - take that unliterally (don't really try to make outs for the sake of a base) and you're going with pitches, instead of pulling everything.

PatK
05-09-2009, 09:23 AM
I want to see Charlie Lau Jr do what his old man did with the Sox.

oeo
05-09-2009, 12:34 PM
I still can't get past how Getz is not a 'real' leadoff hitter. We have some pretty good hitters at the top of the lineup in the AL Central, and Getz has been the most valuable of all of them this year out of that spot. Yeah, Granderson's 9 homeruns and 19 RBI's are nice, so are Sizemore's 6 and 22, but give me Getz' .358 OBP and only 7 strikeouts.

TSXNaVi
05-09-2009, 12:55 PM
Whose responsiblility is it then??

Walker is the hitting coach........our hitting is not good.......

Is it 100% Walker's fault? Not at all!!

It goes up to Kenny supplying the players on the field.....which puts Walker in a bad position but Walker is getting paid to improve hitting.

Side note: What about our scouting reports.........do they even exist for opposing pitchers we face??

oeo
05-09-2009, 01:04 PM
Side note: What about our scouting reports.........do they even exist for opposing pitchers we face??

We should have had a good scouting report on Matt Harrison. I mean, we just faced him last week. I thought he looked better this week (he was pinpoint last night), so it's possible we're catching the guy at the wrong time, but he's now thrown 14 innings of shutout ball against us. And if he went out there again today, I wonder if we would have a game plan against him.

TSXNaVi
05-09-2009, 01:11 PM
We should have had a good scouting report on Matt Harrison. I mean, we just faced him last week. I thought he looked better this week (he was pinpoint last night), so it's possible we're catching the guy at the wrong time, but he's now thrown 14 innings of shutout ball against us. And if he went out there again today, I wonder if we would have a game plan against him.

Thats what I was thinking.

I was not able to catch the game last night so I am not sure if he looked filthy or was throwning junk.

I just seen the 6-0 result.

But all these shutouts or 1 run games are getting frustrating

oeo
05-09-2009, 01:16 PM
I was not able to catch the game last night so I am not sure if he looked filthy or was throwning junk.

The guy only throws junk...he really reminds me a lot of Richard. Last week he looked terrible all around, and we should have kicked the living snot out of him. However, last night, he was hitting his spots and that's all you really need. He wasn't filthy, but he did have pinpoint control.

Domeshot17
05-09-2009, 01:35 PM
I still can't get past how Getz is not a 'real' leadoff hitter. We have some pretty good hitters at the top of the lineup in the AL Central, and Getz has been the most valuable of all of them this year out of that spot. Yeah, Granderson's 9 homeruns and 19 RBI's are nice, so are Sizemore's 6 and 22, but give me Getz' .358 OBP and only 7 strikeouts.

Getz's ideal role is a 2 hitter. He has that high OBP, but he has amazing bat control. If you can get a guy infront of him who can get on steal bases, Getz is a guy you can do an awful lot of hitting and running, moving guys over. You can't teach his type of Bat Control. He also lacks Ideal speed for a leadoff hitter. He may steal 20 bases or so, but hes a better base runner then a speedy stealer.

And the idea we have a balanced attack because we have guys who can't hit singles or home runs is foolish. I am not saying that was directed at you OEO, just in general. We have our 2 hitter leading off for the 2nd year in a row. We have a middle of the order to back of the order hitter hitting 2. Then we have our sluggers, then we plug in a bunch of guys who just don't hit, its a a bunch of square pegs and round holes.

oeo
05-09-2009, 01:40 PM
Getz's ideal role is a 2 hitter. He has that high OBP, but he has amazing bat control. If you can get a guy infront of him who can get on steal bases, Getz is a guy you can do an awful lot of hitting and running, moving guys over. You can't teach his type of Bat Control. He also lacks Ideal speed for a leadoff hitter. He may steal 20 bases or so, but hes a better base runner then a speedy stealer.

And the idea we have a balanced attack because we have guys who can't hit singles or home runs is foolish. I am not saying that was directed at you OEO, just in general. We have our 2 hitter leading off for the 2nd year in a row. We have a middle of the order to back of the order hitter hitting 2. Then we have our sluggers, then we plug in a bunch of guys who just don't hit, its a a bunch of square pegs and round holes.

I disagree that Getz should be thought of as only a #2 hitter. He's fine in either role, IMO. I think a better job by Kenny would have been getting a #1 or #2 hitter, because Getz is perfectly fine in either one of those roles. And that's been my biggest gripe with Kenny's offseason. He didn't fill the CF hole that's been there for four seasons now. I guess it really hasn't been a problem this year, we've gotten production, but I agree, we need someone that can hit up at the top of the order.

Even with that problem, I still think this lineup can be successful in many different ways. Once again, Alexei is the X factor...he needs to get his head out of his ass and start hitting again. That will turn the lineup over nicely.

Domeshot17
05-09-2009, 01:43 PM
I disagree that Getz should be thought of as only a #2 hitter. He's fine in either role, IMO. I think a better job by Kenny would have been getting a #1 or #2 hitter, because Getz is perfectly fine in either one of those roles. And that's been my biggest gripe with Kenny's offseason. He didn't fill the CF hole that's been there for four seasons now. I guess it really hasn't been a problem this year, we've gotten production, but I agree, we need someone that hit up at the top of the order.

He isn't bad leading off, but like I said, he is IDEAL at the 2. Think of what Getz could do with a 2005 esque Pods infront of him. He would make Iguchi look bad.

He can either be a good lead off man, or a great table setting 2. Him hitting 2 is going to manufacture a ton more runs.

Daver
05-09-2009, 03:09 PM
What is Walker's job?

Is it his job to work with the hitters to help them maximize their performance?

Or is it his job to play cards?

His job is to go over the scouting report on the day's starting pitcher, to watch players at bat for flaws or bad trends and make the player aware of it, and to be there to work with players when they are struggling.

There is no hitting coach on the planet that can force someone to change their habits, the player has to be the one to do that.

voodoochile
05-09-2009, 03:32 PM
I love it when people talk like they are "in the know" about what goes on in the White Sox clubhouse.

So true.

If Ozzie and Kenny are happy, I am fine with him as the hitting coach. I don't figure I know near enough to make a judgment on whether to retain him or not.

southside rocks
05-09-2009, 04:07 PM
So true.

If Ozzie and Kenny are happy, I am fine with him as the hitting coach. I don't figure I know near enough to make a judgment on whether to retain him or not.

Ditto.

KW and Ozzie are not incapable of firing a coach. (Anybody seen Tim Raines lately? Razor Shines is long gone, too.)

If they felt that the abysmal performance by Sox batters were the fault of the hitting coach, they would replace that coach.

Really, it's absurd how many people will fault Walker and not the hitters themselves. Like it's all somebody else's fault, always, even thought the guy who's swinging through bad pitches is making millions of dollars a year to hit the ball, and the hitting coach did not tell him to go up there and flail away like he's trying to swat a mosquito with an oar.

Konerko had a horrible season last year through no fault of Greg Walker, and Konerko is having a very good season this year through no glory of Greg Walker. Alexei Ramirez is his own worst enemy at the plate this year, which is why Ozzie benched him and not Walker.

And in another poll, Don Cooper is walking on water, despite the fact that Jose Contreras is radioactive and Gavin Floyd induces queasiness and Clayton Richard is underwhelming on a good day.

*****.

TomBradley72
05-09-2009, 05:51 PM
Can anyone name the greatest White Sox hitting coaches of all time? I think it's an important role, but I think people are overstating Walker's impact.

I've been a diehard for 38 years, other than Charlie Lau, I can't think of another "great" hitting coach. Great players, great managers, maybe great pitching coaches (Sain, maybe Cooper)...but no great hitting coaches come to mind.

CLR01
05-09-2009, 05:59 PM
Best damn hitting coach I ever saw.

Daver
05-09-2009, 06:41 PM
I've been a diehard for 38 years, other than Charlie Lau, I can't think of another "great" hitting coach. Great players, great managers, maybe great pitching coaches (Sain, maybe Cooper)...but no great hitting coaches come to mind.

Walt Hrniak was a great hitting coach for players that had the discipline to use his entire approach theory of hitting, Frank Thomas is a prime example of it, but few players could un-learn everything they had learned before being coached by Walt.

Frater Perdurabo
05-09-2009, 11:08 PM
His job is to go over the scouting report on the day's starting pitcher, to watch players at bat for flaws or bad trends and make the player aware of it, and to be there to work with players when they are struggling.

Do you think Walker is doing a good job at these things?

Daver
05-09-2009, 11:43 PM
Do you think Walker is doing a good job at these things?

Does my opinion count in any meaningful way?

I think Greg uses the info he is provided, the quality of that information may be questionable.

dickallen15
05-11-2009, 08:58 AM
The White Sox started the season with Dewayne Wise, he the 31 year old with the .215 career batting average and .254 career OBP leading off. They have even had Brent Lillibridge, a guy with a sub .200 career batting average lead off, now have Scott Podsednik, he of the guy without a job when the season started Podsedniks. How can you expect this team to score many runs? What particular hitter do you blame Greg Walker for their struggles? Why does Don Cooper, when the starting rotation's minus Buerhle collective ERA is over 6.00 walk on water and Cooper gets no blame for that? Get off the fire Greg Walker bandwagon. A new hitting coach is just as much a solution as Jack Egbert or Lance Broadway are for the pitching staff. Just like any coach or manager, if Kenny Williams acquires some major league hitters, Greg Walker will look a lot smarter.

kitekrazy
05-11-2009, 10:48 AM
When you have a lot of veterans it's hard to change something they've been doing for a long time. The great hitters usually make their own adjustments.

I really don't know if a hitting coach can make a lot of impressions except on younger players.

Hitting a baseball is pretty hard to do anyway. You can make suggestions to a player all you want but I would imagine it's hard to put those in place facing a live arm.

khan
05-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Two questions for the group:


Exactly what does a hitting coach do for a team?
What would Greg Walker do with a former All Star like Andruw Jones?
I ask these two questions because it is my view that Cooper has been lauded for his ability to take on [SOME] reclaimation projects, and help them succeed. Also, I would be better able to appraise Walker's performance/lack thereof if we better defined terms.

Thank you.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 07:24 PM
Two questions for the group:


Exactly what does a hitting coach do for a team?
What would Greg Walker do with a former All Star like Andruw Jones?

I ask these two questions because it is my view that Cooper has been lauded for his ability to take on [SOME] reclaimation projects, and help them succeed. Also, I would be better able to appraise Walker's performance/lack thereof if we better defined terms.

Thank you.

Great way to frame the issue. I cannot think of any players whom Walker has "reclaimed."

Paulie is what he was before Walker came to the Sox, prone to both hot and cold streaks. Thome has regressed, but due to age. Last year Quentin fulfilled what many thought he could do. Dye has been great, but I'd attribute that more to not suffering injuries than anything Walker has done. AJ has been about the same as he was when he was with the Twins, other than a lower average due to playing on grass for 81 games instead of the turf for 81 games, and slightly higher HR totals because the Cell is more power-friendly. Rowand had a great 2004 but an average 2005, and he's had both average (2006, 2008) and great years (2007) since then. Cabrera was about the same or marginally worse with the Sox. Uribe had a great start in 2004 but then regressed. Everett had a great first half of 2003 before he came to the Sox, but then declined (in part due to age). BA sucked in 2006, got hurt in 2007, was mediocre in 2008 and was very good until getting hurt this year. Much of that is due to the normal maturation process for someone who had an immature attitude in 2006. In 2005, Pods did what he did in Milwaukee and benefited from being expected simply to get on base, then got hurt more often. Iguchi displayed the superb bat control he did in Japan. Crede had a great 2006 and a great June 2008, perhaps fulfilling the potential he showed in the minors, then injuries took their toll. Getz is doing what he did in the minors. Mackowiak had a nice 2006 at the plate, pretty much doing what he did in Pittsburgh. Fields had nice power numbers in 2007 but a mediocre average.

I could go on, but there simply aren't any examples of any players who have shown demonstrable improvement due to Walker.

Daver
05-11-2009, 07:31 PM
Great way to frame the issue. I cannot think of any players whom Walker has "reclaimed."

Paulie is what he was before Walker came to the Sox, prone to both hot and cold streaks. Thome has regressed, but due to age. Last year Quentin fulfilled what many thought he could do. Dye has been great, but I'd attribute that more to not suffering injuries than anything Walker has done. AJ has been about the same as he was when he was with the Twins, other than a lower average due to playing on grass for 81 games instead of the turf for 81 games, and slightly higher HR totals because the Cell is more power-friendly. Rowand had a great 2004 but an average 2005, and he's had both average (2006, 2008) and great years (2007) since then. Cabrera was about the same or marginally worse with the Sox. Uribe had a great start in 2004 but then regressed. Everett had a great first half of 2003 before he came to the Sox, but then declined (in part due to age). BA sucked in 2006, got hurt in 2007, was mediocre in 2008 and was very good until getting hurt this year. Much of that is due to the normal maturation process for someone who had an immature attitude in 2006. In 2005, Pods did what he did in Milwaukee and benefited from being expected simply to get on base, then got hurt more often. Iguchi displayed the superb bat control he did in Japan. Crede had a great 2006 and a great June 2008, perhaps fulfilling the potential he showed in the minors, then injuries took their toll. Getz is doing what he did in the minors. Mackowiak had a nice 2006 at the plate, pretty much doing what he did in Pittsburgh. Fields had nice power numbers in 2007 but a mediocre average.

I could go on, but there simply aren't any examples of any players who have shown demonstrable improvement due to Walker.

You're not supposed to learn to hit at the MLB level, you supposed to do that in the minors, if a player hasn't then questions have to be asked as to why. For hitters that have a tendency to be streaky, I'm not sure the ghost of Rogers Hornsby can help someone to unlearn overthinking his approach.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 08:02 PM
You're not supposed to learn to hit at the MLB level, you supposed to do that in the minors, if a player hasn't then questions have to be asked as to why. For hitters that have a tendency to be streaky, I'm not sure the ghost of Rogers Hornsby can help someone to unlearn overthinking his approach.

That was the not question that was asked, and that's not what I was trying to answer.

The point is that I cannot think of any hitter who has improved under Walker's coaching. Can you?

On the other hand, there are hitting coaches under whom hitters have improved. Rudy Jaramillo is one example.

Daver
05-11-2009, 08:06 PM
That was the not question that was asked, and that's not what I was trying to answer.

The point is that I cannot think of any hitter who has improved under Walker's coaching. Can you?

On the other hand, there are hitting coaches under whom hitters have improved. Rudy Jaramillo is one example.

Chris getz, Brian Anderson, and Carlos Quentin did not improve? They aren't facing minor league pitching here.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 08:15 PM
Chris getz, Brian Anderson, and Carlos Quentin did not improve? They aren't facing minor league pitching here.

The questioner asked what veteran has come to the Sox and improved his hitting?

I'd add to that: what hitter(s) who were with the Sox before Walker took the job improved their hitting as a result of working with Walker?

I agree that the Sox player development efforts leave a lot to be desired, and also that the Sox organizational approach to hitting is flawed. But that does not absolve Greg Walker for performing less than satisfactorily IMHO.

voodoochile
05-11-2009, 08:17 PM
The questioner asked what veteran has come to the Sox and improved his hitting?

I'd add to that: what hitter(s) who were with the Sox before Walker took the job improved their hitting as a result of working with Walker?

I agree that the Sox player development efforts leave a lot to be desired, and also that the Sox organizational approach to hitting is flawed. But that does not absolve Greg Walker for performing less than satisfactorily IMHO.


Dye has had his best years since joining the Sox...

Brian26
05-11-2009, 08:28 PM
I'd add to that: what hitter(s) who were with the Sox before Walker took the job improved their hitting as a result of working with Walker?

At Soxfest last year, Konerko credited Walker with completely rebuilding his approach when Walker arrived in mid-2003. At the time, Konerko was mired in the worst slump of his career, so bad that he was benched in favor of Daubach. Walker told him he'd help Konerko, but PK would have to agree to forget everything he knew about hitting and start over from scratch. After working with him in the 2nd half of '03, PK went on to have the three best years of his career from 2004-2006.

All joking aside about Konerko's number in 2007 and 2008 (maybe due to declining skills more than anything), this is the best example of Walker clearly helping someone out who was a mess at the plate when he arrived.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 08:30 PM
Dye has had his best years since joining the Sox...

One might argue that this is due in part to him being healthier with the Sox than he was with the A's, and also because his HR numbers have increased as he moved from the cavernous A's ballpark to the cozy Cell, and some foul pops that ended up as outs in Oakland are now simple foul balls at the Cell.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 08:35 PM
At Soxfest last year, Konerko credited Walker with completely rebuilding his approach when Walker arrived in mid-2003. At the time, Konerko was mired in the worst slump of his career, so bad that he was benched in favor of Daubach. Walker told him he'd help Konerko, but PK would have to agree to forget everything he knew about hitting and start over from scratch. After working with him in the 2nd half of '03, PK went on to have the three best years of his career from 2004-2006.

All joking aside about Konerko's number in 2007 and 2008 (maybe due to declining skills more than anything), this is the best example of Walker clearly helping someone out who was a mess at the plate when he arrived.

I believe that Walker helped Konerko rebound after his disastrous 2003.

However, the devil's advocate might point out that:

1. Paulie was expected to become a professional hitter when he came to the Sox;

2. Paulie had four .850-ish OPS years from 1999-2002 before having that brutal 2003;

3. His peak years of 2004-2006 coincided with him being 28, 29 and 30, the absolute peak years for power hitters.

Whitesoxfan23
05-11-2009, 08:40 PM
I really don't understand how anybody could have voted Yes...

Daver
05-11-2009, 08:41 PM
I really don't understand how anybody could have voted Yes...

They understand what a hitting coaches job actually is?

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 09:04 PM
They understand what a hitting coaches job actually is?

In an earlier post you explained it as:

His job is to go over the scouting report on the day's starting pitcher, to watch players at bat for flaws or bad trends and make the player aware of it, and to be there to work with players when they are struggling.We can put aside the issue of the accuracy and usefulness of the scouting reports he gets and look at the specific issue of the Rangers and Matt Harrison. The Sox saw him twice in the span of one week. Harrison even said the Sox made no adjustments. Couldn't Walker have spotted something in his pitching - based on his own observations - and made suggestions for adjustments for the Sox hitters to make?

Walker himself said that he didn't work with BA at all in 2006, when BA obviously was sucking at the plate due both to immaturity and bad flaws, habits and trends. Was Walker just waiting for BA to come around to ask for help? What kind of coaching is that? What happened to coaches being proactive by making players aware of the flaws ASAP, and making immediate suggestions for improving those flaws, and then working with them to follow through on those suggestions to improve those flaws, both during games and between games?

And "be there" to work with players? So if no one comes around to ask for help, it's his job just to "be there?" Where can I get a job where I am just expected to "be there?"

Let me phrase the question another way: What would Walker have to do to deserve to be fired?

Daver
05-11-2009, 09:11 PM
In an earlier post you explained it as:

We can put aside the issue of the accuracy and usefulness of the scouting reports he gets and look at the specific issue of the Rangers and Matt Harrison. The Sox saw him twice in the span of one week. Harrison even said the Sox made no adjustments. Couldn't Walker have spotted something in his pitching - based on his own observations - and made suggestions for adjustments for the Sox hitters to make?

Walker himself said that he didn't work with BA at all in 2006, when BA obviously was sucking at the plate due both to immaturity and bad flaws, habits and trends. Was Walker just waiting for BA to come around to ask for help? What kind of coaching is that? What happened to coaches being proactive by making players aware of the flaws ASAP, and making immediate suggestions for improving those flaws, and then working with them to follow through on those suggestions to improve those flaws, both during games and between games?

And "be there" to work with players? So if no one comes around to ask for help, it's his job just to "be there?" Where can I get a job where I am just expected to "be there?"

Let me phrase the question another way: What would Walker have to do to deserve to be fired?

What did Von Joshua do to deserve to get fired?

Tragg
05-11-2009, 09:16 PM
What did Von Joshua do to deserve to get fired?
He let himself be scapegoated.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2009, 09:24 PM
What did Von Joshua do to deserve to get fired?

In your opinion was he a better hitting coach than Walker?

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 09:25 PM
Can we find a hitting coach with more than 2900 career ABs in the bigs, maybe? A career, everyday hitter? I mean, both of those guys had maybe 4 injury free seasons in their short careers....

Tall midgets.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Can we find a hitting coach with more than 2900 career ABs in the bigs, maybe? A career, everyday hitter?

Why would that matter? Did Rudy Jaramillo ever make the big leagues? Did Leo Mazzone ever pitch?

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Why would that matter? Did Rudy Jaramillo ever make the big leagues? Did Leo Mazzone ever pitch?

I think it matters today. Tons of reasons.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 09:33 PM
I think it matters today. Tons of reasons.

Name 'em.

Daver
05-11-2009, 09:40 PM
In your opinion was he a better hitting coach than Walker?

My opinion is worthless.

Von Joshua served the needs of the type of team Jery Manuel had, which was a very young team that needed to adjust to MLB pitching, Greg Walker has, for the most part, had veteran players to work with, it's not a good comparison. You coach to the players you have, Greg developed hitters well in the minors for the Sox, that is a simple deduction to make based on the fact that you progress through their system based solely on how well you hit, but you don't deal with veterans the same way you do with young hitters, and Greg has had success with the young hitters on this team. Hitting coaches at the MLB level are not there to teach, they are there to consult, that being said, Greg is doing both. Walt Hrinak would have walked away from this lineup leaving a trail of explitives deleted in the second week of spring traing.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 09:52 PM
Name 'em.

Are you serious?

Walker had 2864 career ABs in the bigs.... Our expert. :rolleyes:

(The remainder for you below is probably even higher as it's not updated because it's from BR)


Dye: 6086
Konerko: 5658
Thome: 7425
AJ: 3963

That is the core of vets now. Why in the **** are they going to listen to him? Why wouldn't the young hopefuls emulate those that were more successful in staying in the bigs. Wearing the same uniform?

That's THOUSANDS of reasons, right there.

And these are ABs, not PAs. You can add hundreds more, if you want to really get into big league situations, locking in and identifying with a young hitter, etc.

Crede has more than either of those guys, Podesednik has more than Von Joshua.

I want experience to change this cycle.

Draft/trade for a big dude that can blast **** out of the Cell... not doing it! Hasn't been doing it. You can bring up Texas all you want because we got owned by ****ty hitting response... we should be better.

doublem23
05-11-2009, 09:58 PM
Are you serious?

Walker had 2864 career ABs in the bigs.... Our expert. :rolleyes:

(The remainder for you below is probably even higher as it's not updated because it's from BR)


Dye: 6086
Konerko: 5658
Thome: 7425
AJ: 3963

That is the core of vets now. Why in the **** are they going to listen to him? Why wouldn't the young hopefuls emulate those that were more successful in staying in the bigs. Wearing the same uniform?

That's THOUSANDS of reasons, right there.

And these are ABs, not PAs. You can add hundreds more, if you want to really get into big league situations, locking in and identifying with a young hitter, etc.

Crede has more than either of those guys, Podesednik has more than Von Joshua.

I want experience to change this cycle.

Draft/trade for a big dude that can blast **** out of the Cell... not doing it! Hasn't been doing it. You can bring up Texas all you want because we got owned by ****ty hitting response... we should be better.

Frank Thomas, arguably the best RH hitter in baseball history, credited a lot of his success to working with Walt Hriniak... and his 111 career PAs.

Worst. Logic. Ever.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Are you serious?

Walker had 2864 career ABs in the bigs.... Our expert. :rolleyes:

(The remainder for you below is probably even higher as it's not updated because it's from BR)


Dye: 6086
Konerko: 5658
Thome: 7425
AJ: 3963

That is the core of vets now. Why in the **** are they going to listen to him? Why wouldn't the young hopefuls emulate those that were more successful in staying in the bigs. Wearing the same uniform?

That's THOUSANDS of reasons, right there.

And these are ABs, not PAs. You can add hundreds more, if you want to really get into big league situations, locking in and identifying with a young hitter, etc.

Crede has more than either of those guys, Podesednik has more than Von Joshua.

I want experience to change this cycle.

Draft/trade for a big dude that can **** out of the Cell... not doing it. Hasn't been doing it. You can bring up Texas all you want because we got owned by ****ty hitting response... we should be better.

Because their job isn't hitting coach? Because their job is to perform for the team and not teach kids how to hit?

I thought your initial point was that the more PAs a guy has, the better a hitting coach he would be. So does that mean Thome would make a better hitting coach than Dye or Konerko, or perhaps Frank Thomas or Albert Pujols?

Teaching is not the same thing as doing.

Daver
05-11-2009, 10:00 PM
Are you serious?

Walker had 2864 career ABs in the bigs.... Our expert. :rolleyes:

(The remainder for you below is probably even higher as it's not updated because it's from BR)


Dye: 6086
Konerko: 5658
Thome: 7425
AJ: 3963

That is the core of vets now. Why in the **** are they going to listen to him? Why wouldn't the young hopefuls emulate those that were more successful in staying in the bigs. Wearing the same uniform?

That's THOUSANDS of reasons, right there.

And these are ABs, not PAs. You can add hundreds more, if you want to really get into big league situations, locking in and identifying with a young hitter, etc.

Crede has more than either of those guys, Podesednik has more than Von Joshua.

I want experience to change this cycle.

Draft/trade for a big dude that can blast **** out of the Cell... not doing it! Hasn't been doing it. You can bring up Texas all you want because we got owned by ****ty hitting response... we should be better.

Please tell me you are not serious.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:06 PM
Frank Thomas, arguably the best RH hitter in baseball history, credited a lot of his success to working with Walt Hriniak... and his 111 career PAs.

Worst. Logic. Ever.

Because their job isn't hitting coach? Because their job is to perform for the team and not teach kids how to hit?

I thought your initial point was that the more PAs a guy has, the better a hitting coach he would be. So does that mean Thome would make a better hitting coach than Dye or Konerko, or perhaps Frank Thomas or Albert Pujols?

Teaching is not the same thing as doing.

Please tell me you are not serious.

How are we hitting?

I think we have coaching with the fewest ML experience.

LA x 2, NY x 2, St. Louis, Toronto... All the teams hitting...

You guys can armchair, but I'm looking this **** up....

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 10:07 PM
How are we hitting?

I think we have coaching with the fewest ML experience.

LA x 2, NY x 2, St. Louis, Toronto... All the teams hitting...

You guys can armchair, but I'm looking this **** up....

So your main criteria for a hitting coach is this?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/PA_career.shtml

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:14 PM
Magadan...Steve Henderson....

Daver
05-11-2009, 10:15 PM
How are we hitting?

I think we have coaching with the fewest ML experience.

LA x 2, NY x 2, St. Louis, Toronto... All the teams hitting...

You guys can armchair, but I'm looking this **** up....

Look up Charlie Lau, Von Joshua, and Ted Williams while you are at it.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Frank Thomas, arguably the best RH hitter in baseball history, credited a lot of his success to working with Walt Hriniak... and his 111 career PAs.

Worst. Logic. Ever.

I would love for him (Frank) to be the hitting.coach.tommorow.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Magadan...Steve Henderson....

You still have yet to respond why you think plate appearances equate with quality as hitting coach.

I brought up Texas because Rudy Jaramillo is regarded as amongst the best in the business, and because the Rangers are in the top 3 in scoring in the AL. He played of all 4 seasons in the minor leagues. How does your 'logic' explain that?

The Blue Jays are also in the top 3 in the AL in scoring. Their hitting coach is Gene Tenace, not exactly a great hitter in his time.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:27 PM
You still have yet to respond why you think plate appearances equate with quality as hitting coach.

I brought up Texas because Rudy Jaramillo is regarded as amongst the best in the business, and because the Rangers are in the top 3 in scoring in the AL. He played of all 4 seasons in the minor leagues. How does your 'logic' explain that?

The Blue Jays are also in the top 3 in the AL in scoring. Their hitting coach is Gene Tenace, not exactly a great hitter in his time.


The examples I gave show how he is the pretty much the lone exception, the others show the validity of the response. He is also the hitting coach in Texas. TEXAS! I went right down the top 10.

I mentioned Gene here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226695&postcount=80). Also more experience than our staff.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 10:29 PM
The examples I gave show how he is the pretty much the lone exception. He is also the hitting coach in Texas. TEXAS! I went right down the top 10.

I mentioned Gene here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226695&postcount=80). Also more experience than our staff.

So, according to your logic, why shouldn't the Sox hire Rickey Henderson as hitting coach? After all, he's 4th all time in plate appearances. Barry Bonds is in the top 10, too, would he make a great hitting coach?

Craig Grebeck
05-11-2009, 10:31 PM
Ever heard of the term "correlation vs. causation" drewcifer? If not, I recommend a perusal.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:36 PM
Ever heard of the term "correlation vs. causation" drewcifer? If not, I recommend a perusal.

No. I believe you can get your ass kicked for something like that.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:38 PM
So, according to your logic, why shouldn't the Sox hire Rickey Henderson as hitting coach? After all, he's 4th all time in plate appearances. Barry Bonds is in the top 10, too, would he make a great hitting coach?

Yes!

Are you trying to sell me that having the best leadoff hitter of all time, to a team that can't ****ING FIND ONE TO SAVE THEIR LIVES, is a bad idea?

I don't know what Bonds could teach, but Henderson I would kill to have on our staff. TONS OF REASONS.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 10:42 PM
Yes!

Are you trying to sell me that having the best leadoff hitter of all time, to a team that can't ****ING FIND ONE TO SAVE THEIR LIVES, is a bad idea?

I don't know what Bonds could teach, but Henderson I would kill to have on our staff. TONS OF REASONS.

Wow, just, wow.

What about Pete Rose? I mean, he has more PAs than anyone, ever.

Or Ty Cobb's corpse, perhaps?

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 10:47 PM
Wow, just, wow.

What about Pete Rose? I mean, he has more PAs than anyone, ever.

Or Ty Cobb's corpse, perhaps?

You completely ****ed up your point. Don't try and point pyorrheas now.

You actually asked if having Rickey Henderson would be a bad coach to have and walked directly into my point.

Pete Rose is banned and Ty Cobb is dead, so the straw in your argument just broke.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 10:53 PM
You completely ****ed up your point. Don't try and point pyorrheas now.

You actually asked if having Rickey Henderson would be a bad coach to have and walked directly into my point.

Pete Rose is banned and Ty Cobb is dead, so the straw in your argument just broke.

Your (bizarre) argument is that plate appearances equates with quality as hitting coach. I mentioned two other career leaders in said category.

And I haven't a clue as to what 'pyorrheas' is.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 11:05 PM
Your (bizarre) argument is that plate appearances equates with quality as hitting coach. I mentioned two other career leaders in said category.

Actually, I said PAs aren't what I counted and ABs is what cited. READ. I said if I count PAs, it's even more to my point. There's a difference... do you KNOW that?

A good hitting coach does.

And I haven't a clue as to what 'pyorrheas' is.

A shunned person. A scourge. An utter disappointment to a cause. Like [many feel about] Pete Rose, Jose Canseco, and Barry Bonds.

Manny.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 11:10 PM
Actually, I said PAs aren't what I counted and ABs is what cited. READ. I said if I count PAs, it's even more to my point. There's a difference... do you KNOW that?

A hitting coach does.

And I haven't a clue as to what 'pyorrheas' is.

A shunned person. A scourge. An utter disappointment to a cause. Like [many feel] about Pete Rose, Jose Canseco, and Barry Bonds.

Ohh, yeah a HUGE difference between PAs and ABs. :rolleyes:

So THIS is your criteria for a quality hitting coach, then:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/AB_career.shtml

Despite your definition, the only returns seem to be dental.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pyorrheas

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Your (bizarre) argument is that plate appearances equates with quality as hitting coach. I mentioned two other career leaders in said category.

And I haven't a clue as to what 'pyorrheas' is.

I'm sorry - one other thing that bothers me....

I pointed out that we have a hitting coach with what is a seemingly LOW number of professinal ABs to be our hitting coach. This, ONLY after we suck. Then I look **** up, and in typical WSI fashion, 3 people try to pile on top and defend our ****ty hitting (and coaching), but can't refute it and this is AFTER I give AMPLE examples of the teams succeeding....

I'm not saying I even HAVE an argument. It's just an observation and now it's backed up after all you guys piled on

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 11:20 PM
I'm sorry - one other thing that bothers me....

I pointed out that we have a hitting coach with what is a seemingly LOW number of professinal ABs to be our hitting coach. This, ONLY after we suck. Then I look **** up, and in typical WSI fashion, 3 people try to pile on top and defend our ****ty hitting (and coaching), but can't refute it and this is AFTER I give AMPLE examples of the teams succeeding....

I'm not saying I even HAVE an argument. It's just an observation and now it's backed up after all you guys piled on

You stated that PAs/ABs [whichever you claim your initial argument was] equates with the quality of a hitting coach. That rather ridiculous argument was criticized.

Show me where anyone defended the job Greg Walker is doing.

And you still have yet to show evidence that major league experience makes a hitting coach better; and why this is the case.

Konerko05
05-11-2009, 11:22 PM
Despite your definition, the only returns seem to be dental.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pyorrheas

Stop being such a molar.

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 11:24 PM
Stop being such a molar.

Sorry, I'm just trying to point out his argument isn't 'rooted' in anything. :tongue:

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 11:24 PM
You stated that PAs/ABs [whichever you claim your initial argument was] equates with the quality of a hitting coach. That rather ridiculous argument was criticized.

Show me where anyone defended the job Greg Walker is doing.

And you still have yet to show evidence that major league experience makes a hitting coach better; and why this is the case.

I listed hitting coaches because THAT is what you asked for. They were both LA teams, both NY teams, and Tampa Bay. Then I started naming more.

So those are FORMER PLAYERS and teams. Are YOU going to look anything up?

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 11:26 PM
Stop being such a molar.

Great. So we should have nothing to worry about.

Konerko05
05-11-2009, 11:30 PM
Great. So we should have nothing to worry about.

Your argument just lacks 'wisdom.'

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 11:31 PM
I listed hitting coaches because THAT is what you asked for. They were both LA teams, both NY teams, and Tampa Bay. Then I started naming more.

So those are FORMER PLAYERS and teams. Are YOU going to look anything up?

Why should I look anything up? You created an argument with no evidence to support it, and when asked for such evidence, say that the other side isn't doing so. The onus is the person making the argument. I did bring up several coaches, one who is known to be among the best hitting coaches in the game and had only 4 minor league seasons as a player, and a couple more coaches who were not good hitters at all in the majors; you had no response to that.

Also, why those teams? A random list, the Angels have never been known for their offense and are below league average offensively thus far.

Your original post was complaining that Walker had only 2900 career ABs and that we should hire someone with a more extensive career as a player. I would think experience coaching, teaching players how to hit, dealing with veterans, and knowing how to break down swings are important, but apparently that's not what matters to you.

drewcifer
05-11-2009, 11:51 PM
Why should I look anything up? You created an argument with no evidence to support it, and when asked for such evidence, say that the other side isn't doing so. The onus is the person making the argument. I did bring up several coaches, one who is known to be among the best hitting coaches in the game and had only 4 minor league seasons as a player, and a couple more coaches who were not good hitters at all in the majors; you had no response to that.

Also, why those teams? A random list, the Angels have never been known for their offense and are below league average offensively thus far.

Your original post was complaining that Walker had only 2900 career ABs and that we should hire someone with a more extensive career as a player. I would think experience coaching, teaching players how to hit, dealing with veterans, and knowing how to break down swings are important, but apparently that's not what matters to you.

"Name 'em"

That's what you asked for.

I'll find it for you.... Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226635&postcount=74)

I said it before, I'll say it again - the coaches I listed are all top 10 (their TEAMS, that is).

What more do you want?

DSpivack
05-11-2009, 11:55 PM
"Name 'em"

That's all you asked for.

I'll find it for you.... Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226635&postcount=74)

Your point? I asked you why you thought ABs were important, you said there were "tons of reasons", and then I asked you to name them. You still have yet to really show WHY career ABs as a player is important in being a quality hitting coach.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 12:02 AM
Your point? I asked you why you thought ABs were important, you said there were "tons of reasons", and then I asked you to name them. You still have yet to really show WHY career ABs as a player is important in being a quality hitting coach.

I started off with THOUSANDS! Let's wait til the sun shines on this thread and see. I'm done with it, at leat 3 times now I cited coaches with more experince and from top 10 hitting teams. You are just.. I don't know.

Greg Walker and his huge MLB hitting career is the answer. YOU are right. Rickey Henderson, or Pete Rose teaching our young guys would be a ****ing joke.

:rolleyes:

doublem23
05-12-2009, 12:08 AM
I started off with THOUSANDS! Let's wait til the sun shines on this thread and see. I'm done with it, at leat 3 times now I cited coaches with more experince and from top 10 hitting teams. You are just.. I don't know.

Greg Walker and his huge MLB hitting career is the answer. YOU are right. Rickey Henderson, or Pete Rose teaching our young guys would be a ****ing joke.

:rolleyes:

Obviously you've never heard Rickey Henderson or Pete Rose talk.

voodoochile
05-12-2009, 12:14 AM
Obviously you've never heard Rickey Henderson or Pete Rose talk.

Now if you were Ricky, and you ain't Ricky then you would hit like Ricky and that would be a good thing because Ricky hit the ball as well as anyone ever has. So, listen to Ricky and Ricky will tell you just how great Ricky was...

or...

Pssst... Kid... how you feeling tonight? You gonna hit well or you still hungover from all that drinking last night? Paulie says he feels like he's gonna puke and Dye's been standing under a cold shower for the last 20 minutes, which leaves you to carry the load, so do an old guy a favor and tell me... You gonna hit well tonight or not? Can you answer fast, I got a call to make...

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 12:20 AM
I started off with THOUSANDS! Let's wait til the sun shines on this thread and see. I'm done with it, at leat 3 times now I cited coaches with more experince and from top 10 hitting teams. You are just.. I don't know.

Greg Walker and his huge MLB hitting career is the answer. YOU are right. Rickey Henderson, or Pete Rose teaching our young guys would be a ****ing joke.

:rolleyes:

Apparently you still think that I, and others, think that Greg Walker 'is the answer' at hitting coach. Show me where anyone in this thread was defending Walker as hitting coach. I've asked you to do that once before and you have not responded.

Having a hitting coach with thousands of career ABs is not the same as thousands of reasons why career ABs equates with success as hitting coach. I have asked you several times why you think that having a lot of career ABs would mean success for a hitting coach; you have yet do to so.

As others have mentioned, Charlie Lau was a great hitting coach and yet had just 1100 ML ABs. Ted Williams failed as a coach and yet had 7700 career ABs, as well as being among the best hitters this sport has ever seen. Rudy Jaramillo is widely regarded as one of, if not the, best hitting coach in the game today and yet never came close to the bigs. Toronto is the top scoring team in the AL thus far, and yet their hitting coach [Gene Tenace] was a career .240 hitter. Walt Hriniak had fewer than 100 ML ABs, too.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 12:21 AM
Now if you were Ricky, and you ain't Ricky then you would hit like Ricky and that would be a good thing because Ricky hit the ball as well as anyone ever has. So, listen to Ricky and Ricky will tell you just how great Ricky was...

or...

Pssst... Kid... how you feeling tonight? You gonna hit well or you still hungover from all that drinking last night? Paulie says he feels like he's gonna puke and Dye's been standing under a cold shower for the last 20 minutes, which leaves you to carry the load, so do an old guy a favor and tell me... You gonna hit well tonight or not? Can you answer fast, I got a call to make...

So schtick...

This (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01.shtml) is the biggest hall of fame worthy reference on WSI.

I have to scroll twice to see 25 seasons of better than anyone we've had since Frank; but without the defense and SBs.

THAT IS A BALLPLAYER! (not per dvspviack)

.401 OBP after 25 seasons...

LOL - Greg Walker....

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 12:29 AM
So schtick...

This (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01.shtml) is the biggest hall of fame worthy reference on WSI.

I have to scroll twice to see 25 seasons of better than anyone we've had since Frank; but without the defense and SBs.

THAT IS A BALLPLAYER! (not per dvspviack)

.401 OBP after 25 seasons...

LOL - Greg Walker....

A ballplayer, sure [when did I ever criticize Rickey as a player?], but what does that have to do with serving as hitting coach?

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 12:36 AM
Apparently you still think that I, and others, think that Greg Walker 'is the answer' at hitting coach. Show me where anyone in this thread was defending Walker as hitting coach. I've asked you to do that once before and you have not responded.

Having a hitting coach with thousands of career ABs is not the same as thousands of reasons why career ABs equates with success as hitting coach. I have asked you several times why you think that having a lot of career ABs would mean success for a hitting coach; you have yet do to so.

As others have mentioned, Charlie Lau was a great hitting coach and yet had just 1100 ML ABs. Ted Williams failed as a coach and yet had 7700 career ABs, as well as being among the best hitters this sport has ever seen. Rudy Jaramillo is widely regarded as one of, if not the, best hitting coach in the game today and yet never came close to the bigs. Toronto is the top scoring team in the AL thus far, and yet their hitting coach [Gene Tenace] was a career .240 hitter. Walt Hriniak had fewer than 100 ML ABs, too.

But YOU implied players like Pete Rose and Rickey would be bad....... live with that, dude. It was your dumbass post. I'm in my early 30s and I pitched my whole athletic life, (lots of baseball in my family) but I'd kill to be aroud him just to learn what he thinks as a HITTER... That is gold.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 12:38 AM
A ballplayer, sure [when did I ever criticize Rickey as a player?], but what does that have to do with serving as hitting coach?

Holy ****.

I just linked 25 years of reason. Why are you so stubborn? Other coaches. Teams....hitting...under direction of those coaches........Are you Greg's son or something?

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 12:44 AM
Holy ****.

I just linked 25 years of reason. Why are you so stubborn? Other coaches. Teams....hitting...under direction of those coaches........Are you Greg's son
or something?

Wow, just, wow.

When did I, or anyone else in this thread for that matter, ever say Greg Walker was good at his job?

Now you're just making a circular argument. You say that major league experience equates with coaching success, I ask why, you say because Ricky played 25 years. But at least you are now saying, for the first time, why you think that to be the case.

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 12:47 AM
But YOU implied players like Pete Rose and Rickey would be bad....... live with that, dude. It was your dumbass post. I'm in my early 30s and I pitched my whole athletic life, (lots of baseball in my family) but I'd kill to be aroud him just to learn what he thinks as a HITTER... That is gold.

Again, you assume a statement that I never made and putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say, or even imply, they would make a bad hitting coach? Your argument was that ABs=success, and since those are the players at the top of the list in career ABs, according to your theory those should make the best hitting coaches. IF that theory was true, why is Rickey not currently employed by any teams? Why was he fired by the Mets after serving as hitting coach in 2007?

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 12:51 AM
Again, you assume a statement that I never made and putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say, or even imply, they would make a bad hitting coach? Your argument was that ABs=success, and since those are the players at the top of the list in career ABs, according to your theory those should make the best hitting coaches. IF that theory was true, why is Rickey not currently employed by any teams? Why was he fired by the Mets after serving as hitting coach in 2007?

I said I wanted a coach with professional plate experience.

I never said it=success!

You asked for examples, I give them. Then you make a leap after your OWN examples I never mentioned them (Rose/Henderson) are presented.

**** this argument. Completely pointless.

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 12:57 AM
I said I wanted a coach with professional plate experience.

I never said it=success!

You asked for examples, I give them. Then you make a leap.

**** this argument. Completely pointless.

This is what you said:

Can we find a hitting coach with more than 2900 career ABs in the bigs, maybe? A career, everyday hitter? I mean, both of those guys had maybe 4 injury free seasons in their short careers....

Tall midgets.

Seems to me you said you want a hitting coach with >2900 career ABs, as you feel that's important when it comes to being successful as hitting coach. I asked why you think that it's important.

Now you're saying you don't think professional plate experience makes one a good hitting coach. So what's the point of wanting one with >2900 career ABs? :scratch:

Nellie_Fox
05-12-2009, 01:07 AM
...I haven't a clue as to what 'pyorrheas' is.

A shunned person. A scourge. An utter disappointment to a cause. Like [many feel about] Pete Rose, Jose Canseco, and Barry Bonds.

Manny.Pyorrhea is a gum inflammation. I think you were going for pariah. Sometimes, accepting the spell check recommendation is not a good idea.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:09 AM
[QUOTE=DSpivack;2226932]This is what you said:



Seems to me you said you want a hitting coach with >2900 career ABs(yes), as you feel that's important when it comes to being successful as hitting coach. I asked why you think that it's important.(yes)

Now you're saying you don't think professional plate experience makes one a good hitting coach. (No, I didn't) So what's the point of wanting one with >2900 career ABs? :scratch:

I don't. I never said this. I was saying that they are both worthless for being UNDER 2900. This is also now the 2nd time I'm asking you to go back and read that point. I'm using bold letters and striking colors.

I learned this from Greg Walker.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:09 AM
Pyorrhea is a gum inflammation. I think you were going for pariah. Sometimes, accepting the spell check recommendation is not a good idea.

Thanks.

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 01:19 AM
[QUOTE=DSpivack;2226932]This is what you said:



Seems to me you said you want a hitting coach with >2900 career ABs(yes), as you feel that's important when it comes to being successful as hitting coach. I asked why you think that it's important.(yes)

Now you're saying you don't think professional plate experience makes one a good hitting coach. (No, I didn't) So what's the point of wanting one with >2900 career ABs? :scratch:

I don't. I never said this. I was saying that they are both worthless for being UNDER 2900. This is also now the 2nd time I'm asking you to go back and read that point. I'm using bold letters and striking colors.

I learned this from Greg Walker.

I don't understand your last statement, so I'll ignore it.

Your original point was you wanting a coach with more major league experience as a player than Greg Walker. I inquired as to why that mattered.

Who is the they you are referring to?

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:25 AM
[QUOTE=drewcifer;2226937]

I don't understand your last statement, so I'll ignore it.

Your original point was you wanting a coach with more major league experience as a player than Greg Walker. I inquired as to why that mattered.

Who is the they you are referring to?

The examples of all the hitting coaches (first you wanted teams), then the names of the coaches (which you made me look up like a bastard) in the middle of other people trying to pile on.

Go back and READ it.

Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226695&postcount=80), here, (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226712&postcount=82)Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226893&postcount=104)

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 01:27 AM
[QUOTE=DSpivack;2226944]

The examples of all the hitting coaches (first you wanted teams), then the names of the coaches (which you made me look up like a bastard) in the middle of other people trying to pile on.

Go back and READ it.

You cited numerous hitting coaches, you said "they are both worthless for being under 2900." Who is the both there?

Yeah, I made you look those up like a bastard. God forbid an argument should have evidence. :rolleyes:

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:31 AM
[QUOTE=drewcifer;2226947]

You cited numerous hitting coaches, you said "they are both worthless for being under 2900." Who is the both there?

Yeah, I made you look those up like a bastard. God forbid an argument should have evidence. :rolleyes:

Let me finish.... 6 cited now.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:34 AM
You cited numerous hitting coaches, you said "they are both worthless for being under 2900." Who is the both there?

Yeah, I made you look those up like a bastard. God forbid an argument should have evidence. :rolleyes:

[quote=dvsvpicack]
What say you NOW?? Hurry, answer me! Immedialy! Maybe I didn't feel like reading your stuff you already wrote, so I want instant gratification when I demand it to be put back in front of my face![/quote=dvsvpicack]

Nellie_Fox
05-12-2009, 01:35 AM
Please stop quoting screwed up quotes. I can't figure out how to un-**** the original, and it will take some time to un-**** the rest.

Konerko05
05-12-2009, 01:36 AM
I think the quotes are messed up. As if this argument wasn't confusing enough before.

Edit: Nevermind

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 01:37 AM
What say you NOW?? Hurry, answer me! Immedialy! Maybe I didn't feel like reading your stuff you already wrote, so I want instant gratification when I demand it to be put back in front of my face![/quote=dvsvpicack]

Did you read what I wrote? I asked when you said "both are worthless for being under 2900", who is the both there? You can backquote yourself however many times you like, that still doesn't answer my question as to what you are referring to.

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 01:38 AM
I think the quotes are messed up. As if this argument wasn't confusing enough before.

No, they're not, I think he just doesn't know how to spell my name right.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:41 AM
Please stop quoting screwed up quotes. I can't figure out how to un-**** the original, and it will take some time to un-**** the rest.

The quotes are messed up. As if this argument wasn't confusing enough before.

Well, let's get some more people in it.

I suggested we needed a hitting coach with 3,000 ABs (not PA, but ABs), it led to this.

He asked why, I showed why hitting coaches at that level have been successful. He wanted names, he got names. He wanted teams, he got teams.

*** else does anyone else EVER do to stick a point?

And to top it off, he suggested that because I thougt ABs were important, he ridiculued that Rickey Henderson should be a hitting coach to which I emphatically AGREEED that YES, that would be amazing.

Everyone up to date?????

Good.

Konerko05
05-12-2009, 01:43 AM
No, they're not, I think he just doesn't know how to spell my name right.

Posts 121, 122, 123, and 124 are messed up. His user name is on your quote and vice versa.

The quote he spelled your name wrong in is just weird.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:45 AM
Posts 121, 122, 123, and 124 are messed up. His user name is on your quote and vice versa.

The quote he spelled your name wrong in is just weird.

You must be a coach too.

Konerko05
05-12-2009, 01:48 AM
You must be a coach too.

That doesn't make sense.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 01:50 AM
That doesn't make sense.

GREG WALKER SUCKS.

Does that make sense?

93 vs 32 people agree.

We need a hitting coach. I was only suggesting one with MLB experience, you know...up there.

Thanks for your .02

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 01:50 AM
Well, let's get some more people in it.

I suggested we needed a hitting coach with 3,000 ABs (not PA, but ABs), it led to this.

He asked why, I showed why hitting coaches at that level have been successful. He wanted names, he got names. He wanted teams, he got teams.

*** else does anyone else EVER do to stick a point?

And to top it off, he suggested that because I thougt ABs were important, he ridiculued that Rickey Henderson should be a hitting coach to which I emphatically AGREEED that YES, that would be amazing.

Everyone up to date?????

Good.

The Rickey Henderson suggestion was a joke, he was a failure with the Mets two years ago.

Seems to me you think that major league experience is what matters when it comes to be a hitting coach. Is this the case?

What about Rudy Jaramillo [whom many refer to as the game's best and never played in the bigs], Walt Hriniak [who only briefly was a major leaguer], and others who didn't have much success as players, like Charlie Lau [well respected as among the greatest hitting coaches ever], or Gene Tenace [the hitting coach for the Blue Jays, currently the top scoring team in baseball]?

GREG WALKER SUCKS.

Does that make sense?

93 vs 32 people agree.

We need a hitting coach. I was only suggesting one with MLB experience. Thanks for your .02

You keep hammering home the point that Walker sucks, yet when did anyone disagree with that point?

Nellie_Fox
05-12-2009, 01:55 AM
Well, let's get some more people in it.

I suggested we needed a hitting coach with 3,000 ABs (not PA, but ABs), it led to this.

He asked why, I showed why hitting coaches at that level have been successful. He wanted names, he got names. He wanted teams, he got teams.

*** else does anyone else EVER do to stick a point?

And to top it off, he suggested that because I thougt ABs were important, he ridiculued that Rickey Henderson should be a hitting coach to which I emphatically AGREEED that YES, that would be amazing.

Everyone up to date?????

Good.Slow down on the indignant snottiness. You were the one who did the original screw up of editing a quote (you left off the end [ /quote ]) which started the chain of unreadable quotes. Evidence here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226937&postcount=119). I don't intend to try to fix it, and if this thread doesn't settle down I'll close it.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 02:03 AM
The Rickey Henderson suggestion was a joke, he was a failure with the Mets two years ago.



So. That invalidates his experience?

Seems to me you think that major league experience is what matters when it comes to be a hitting coach. Is this the case?

What about Rudy Jaramillo [whom many refer to as the game's best and never played in the bigs], Walt Hriniak [who only briefly was a major leaguer], and others who didn't have much success as players, like Charlie Lau [well respected as among the greatest hitting coaches ever], or Gene Tenace [the hitting coach for the Blue Jays, currently the top scoring team in baseball?

Not even so much as a division winner in the bunch.

:shrug:

Gene I can respect for playing.

How will players respond the others? What impresses you about their coaches? Will we win today because of them?





No.


You keep hammering home the point that Walker sucks, yet when did anyone disagree with that point?

He's an awful hitting coach and that's been my only point. I didn't fight anyone over that...we didn't argue over that, actually. :shrug:

I want a coach who can hit. Not Ozzie's ****ty lefty outfileder teammate from the 80s.. a real hitter. It annoys the **** out of me we can't move runners, we can't hit against a shift, we don't steal... It's a terrible offensive team. And the hitting is the worst part.

drewcifer
05-12-2009, 02:04 AM
Slow down on the indignant snottiness. You were the one who did the original screw up of editing a quote (you left off the end [ /quote ]) which started the chain of unreadable quotes. Evidence here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2226937&postcount=119). I don't intend to try to fix it, and if this thread doesn't settle down I'll close it.

Then close it.

I could give a **** less.

DSpivack
05-12-2009, 02:32 AM
So. That invalidates his experience?

Not even so much as a division winner in the bunch.

:shrug:

Gene I can respect for playing.

How will players respond the others? What impresses you about their coaches? Will we win today because of them?

No.

He's an awful hitting coach and that's been my only point. I didn't fight anyone over that...we didn't argue over that, actually. :shrug:

I want a coach who can hit. Not Ozzie's ****ty lefty outfileder teammate from the 80s.. a real hitter. It annoys the **** out of me we can't move runners, we can't hit against a shift, we don't steal... It's a terrible offensive team. And the hitting is the worst part.

Rickey failed as a hitting coach once, what makes you think he'd be successful again, other than the fact that he happened to be a good hitter?

And why does winning a division matter as to the quality of the hitting coach? He's not the manager or the GM, he's not responsible for how the team players overall, just in one aspect of the game.

Jaramillo is well regarded as the best in the game; he couldn't make the team pitch well nor did he have any influence over their personnel decisions. He has consistently had the Rangers among the top scorers in baseball, helping to turn around the careers of quite a few veterans [Milton Bradley, Josh Hamilton, Gary Mathews Jr., Mark DeRosa, among others].

Charley Lau was the hitting coach for the White Sox during the '83 season as well as many others and was very influential in forming George Brett's swing; he also wrote one of the most influential books on hitting. He was influential in the developments of Harold Baines and Hal MacRae, too; the latter is currently the hitting coach for the Cardinals.

Hriniak is credited by Frank Thomas as teaching him, a future HOFer, how to hit. He was the Red Sox hitting coach up to 1988; including the division winner that season and the AL Champion in 1986. Hriniak also taught Dwight Evans how to hit and was the hitting coach for the White Sox in 1993. He learned from Lau, who managed him in the minors.

EDIT: And I'm going to bed.

Nellie_Fox
05-12-2009, 02:34 AM
Then close it.

I could give a **** less.Okay. See you in another week.