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View Full Version : Management Approval Ratings: Ozzie Guillen


doublem23
05-06-2009, 08:11 AM
Same question as yesterday for KW...

CLR01
05-06-2009, 08:19 AM
Gig!!!!

duke of dorwood
05-06-2009, 08:32 AM
Never have liked the mass line up changes giving several starters day off at same time and he continues to have his pets

oeo
05-06-2009, 08:38 AM
Never have liked the mass line up changes giving several starters day off at same time and he continues to have his pets

:lol: Who?

kittle42
05-06-2009, 08:52 AM
:lol: Who?

Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, and Quentin, obviously.

soxfan21
05-06-2009, 09:14 AM
Ozzie doesn't seem to have that "fire" this year so far. Our batters have been hit countless times yet no retaliation, we have really been sucking for about a week now yet no blow ups in the clubhouse. Hopefuly something happens soon and he can get this team back on track.

wilburaga
05-06-2009, 09:20 AM
For experimentation's sake, let's sack Ozzie, KW, and Boyer and bring back Bevington, Schueler and Gallas. Let's re-learn what misery is.

Being a White Sox fan during Ozzie's tenure has been a lot more fun than the 50 or so years in my lifetime that preceded it.

W

jabrch
05-06-2009, 09:21 AM
Ozzie doesn't seem to have that "fire" this year so far. Our batters have been hit countless times yet no retaliation, we have really been sucking for about a week now yet no blow ups in the clubhouse. Hopefuly something happens soon and he can get this team back on track.


Ah yes - the fire and passion...that will fix everything!

You take fire and passion. I'll take health. This is a fine baseball team if we don't have to play Lillibridge, Pods, Nix, Betemit, etc. en masse...

oeo
05-06-2009, 09:30 AM
Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, and Quentin, obviously.

But those guys are not Latin...

SoxGirl4Life
05-06-2009, 09:33 AM
For experimentation's sake, let's sack Ozzie, KW, and Boyer and bring back Bevington, Schueler and Gallas. Let's re-learn what misery is.

Being a White Sox fan during Ozzie's tenure has been a lot more fun than the 50 or so years in my lifetime that preceded it.

W

That almost made me cry

ode to veeck
05-06-2009, 09:56 AM
For experimentation's sake, let's sack Ozzie, KW, and Boyer and bring back Bevington, Schueler and Gallas. Let's re-learn what misery is.

Being a White Sox fan during Ozzie's tenure has been a lot more fun than the 50 or so years in my lifetime that preceded it.

W

POTW material

soxinem1
05-06-2009, 10:09 AM
Never have liked the mass line up changes giving several starters day off at same time and he continues to have his pets

Ditto. What ever happened to giving a guy a day off?

Maybe they were all hung over and couldn't play?:scratch:

VeeckAsInWreck
05-06-2009, 10:12 AM
For experimentation's sake, let's sack Ozzie, KW, and Boyer and bring back Bevington, Schueler and Gallas. Let's re-learn what misery is.

Being a White Sox fan during Ozzie's tenure has been a lot more fun than the 50 or so years in my lifetime that preceded it.

W


:clap: Well said! Although seeing those names gave me shivers. Let's never speak of them again.

jabrch
05-06-2009, 10:17 AM
He makes some puzzling moves - that's for sure. He's got a big mouth - that's for sure.

But his tenure has resulted in 2 trips to the post season and a 90 win post season miss, a WS, and one crappy season.

He's not the greatest manager, but he's surely not the worst one either.

ChiSoxFan81
05-06-2009, 11:03 AM
He is sometimes infuriating, but in the end, he usually gets results.

ode to veeck
05-06-2009, 11:54 AM
it's not as black and white as the poll options allow

Noneck
05-06-2009, 12:26 PM
When hired, there were better managers out there. (Gaston comes to mind) But the Sox did end up getting their moneys worth by hiring Ozwaldo.

doublem23
05-06-2009, 12:28 PM
it's not as black and white as the poll options allow

Yes, it is. None of this touchy-feely "well he's doing OK here and not good there" crap. Be a man and make a decision.

TomBradley72
05-06-2009, 12:52 PM
I'm a big fan of Guillen as a manager. I think he's gotten as much out of the talent he's been given as any manager could get. Other than Mackowiak in CF in 2006, which I think has been his biggest mistake as a manager, I think he's a very good manager and a fantastic fit for this franchise.

oeo
05-06-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm a big fan of Guillen as a manager. I think he's gotten as much out of the talent he's been given as any manager could get. Other than Mackowiak in CF in 2006, which I think has been his biggest mistake as a manager, I think he's a very good manager and a fantastic fit for this franchise.

I still think that's the big reason to keep him around. His managing has improved from year to year, and I think has taken major strides in the right direction the past couple of years...people forget that he's still relatively new to this; his coaching career was not long before he was hired as manager.

Back to the fit: I like what his outspokenness has done for the White Sox brand. If you want to be completely irrelevant again, we can go back to the days of Jerry Manuel. Also, you'd be hard-pressed to find any other managing candidate out there that shares the same passion and love for the franchise as the fans. Yeah, that guy doesn't exist.

TealTank
05-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Man what a bunch of ****ing whiners. If somebody read this ****ing board, the would think that the Sox haven't won a damn game this entire ****ing year.

The Sox are 2 game below 500 and 3.5 games out of 1st place, in ****ING May!!!

Calm the **** down. Nobody is running away with the division. Nobody is pulling a 84 Tigers. Teams deal with reality and fall back to their regular places, see Orioles 06 and 07.

SoxGirl4Life
05-06-2009, 01:28 PM
Man what a bunch of ****ing whiners. If somebody read this ****ing board, the would think that the Sox haven't won a damn game this entire ****ing year.

The Sox are 2 game below 500 and 3.5 games out of 1st place, in ****ING May!!!

Calm the **** down. Nobody is running away with the division. Nobody is pulling a 84 Tigers. Teams deal with reality and fall back to their regular places, see Orioles 06 and 07.


You must be new here.

asindc
05-06-2009, 01:45 PM
Man what a bunch of ****ing whiners. If somebody read this ****ing board, the would think that the Sox haven't won a damn game this entire ****ing year.

The Sox are 2 game below 500 and 3.5 games out of 1st place, in ****ING May!!!

Calm the **** down. Nobody is running away with the division. Nobody is pulling a 84 Tigers. Teams deal with reality and fall back to their regular places, see Orioles 06 and 07.

You speak truth. Bravo to you.

LoveYourSuit
05-06-2009, 02:16 PM
Man what a bunch of ****ing whiners. If somebody read this ****ing board, the would think that the Sox haven't won a damn game this entire ****ing year.

The Sox are 2 game below 500 and 3.5 games out of 1st place, in ****ING May!!!

Calm the **** down. Nobody is running away with the division. Nobody is pulling a 84 Tigers. Teams deal with reality and fall back to their regular places, see Orioles 06 and 07.


To be fair, I think people are not speaking for this year only.

'07,'08, and so far '09 have been some very ugly years when it comes to offensive execution and playing fundamental baseball. It's been awful.

Yes we won the division in '08, but take a step back and think of how awful a ride that thing was up until that final game. Most of the games in late August and September were un-watchable.

hula
05-06-2009, 02:19 PM
it's not as black and white as the poll options allow

Yeah, I was kind of yes and no myself. Today I felt no after last nights loss so that's how I voted. Sometimes it's day to day....

We need pitchers!

TealTank
05-06-2009, 03:07 PM
To be fair, I think people are not speaking for this year only.

'07,'08, and so far '09 have been some very ugly years when it comes to offensive execution and playing fundamental baseball. It's been awful.

Yes we won the division in '08, but take a step back and think of how awful a ride that thing was up until that final game. Most of the games in late August and September were un-watchable.

Well it goes back to decisions made after the 05 season.

If the Sox didn't sign PK, I can only imagine what the ****ing whiners on here would have been saying. He came damn close to signing with the Angels but the Sox signed him. I'm sure there was no whining back then.

Then the trade of Rowand for Thome.

Then the resigning of Jose was somewhere in there. After the postseason Jose had, even the first half of 06, I'm sure there weren't many whiners about Jose resigning.

Sorry but I don't get this whine fest. No, I am not happy with the way the team is playing. But I'm not ready to call it over.

Domeshot17
05-06-2009, 04:17 PM
I also give him a C, but he would be a passable C where I failed Kenny.

Ozzie too, is very average. He is managing a team with guys that don't let him manage well. The one thing he does best is now situational hitting, when to run, when to hit and run. We saw that in 2005.

However, outside of that, its all hit or miss-

(1) He either loves you or he hates you. You are either one of his guys, or you are in his dog house. This means getting the BEST out of some guys, and making some guys so unhappy they won't succeed. This is also true for his coaches.

(2) He has a tendency to throw his guys under the bus at bad times

(3) AT BEST, he is sub par at managing a bullpen

(4) He talks ALL THE TIME about returning to fundamentals, good defense, bunting, moving runners along, running the bases well, yet it never happens.

(5) The one thing even from his players who dont like him, he will go to war for you

(6) He is hot an cold with his mouth. He knows how to take the heat off his players and protect his guys, but he also brings added heat to the team at poor times.

Basically, he isn't an elite manager. He isn't a Bobby Cox. He isn't going to take a bad team and lead it to victory, but he isn't going to take a good team and kill it. He doesn't win you many games, but he doesn't lose you many. His ideal role would be as a bench coach, motivating his guys, while working with a better in game manager.

mccoydp
05-06-2009, 04:19 PM
All in all, no major complaints here. He's doing a good job.

TealTank
05-06-2009, 04:21 PM
I also give him a C, but he would be a passable C where I failed Kenny.

Ozzie too, is very average. He is managing a team with guys that don't let him manage well. The one thing he does best is now situational hitting, when to run, when to hit and run. We saw that in 2005.

However, outside of that, its all hit or miss-

(1) He either loves you or he hates you. You are either one of his guys, or you are in his dog house. This means getting the BEST out of some guys, and making some guys so unhappy they won't succeed. This is also true for his coaches.

(2) He has a tendency to throw his guys under the bus at bad times

(3) AT BEST, he is sub par at managing a bullpen

(4) He talks ALL THE TIME about returning to fundamentals, good defense, bunting, moving runners along, running the bases well, yet it never happens.

(5) The one thing even from his players who dont like him, he will go to war for you

(6) He is hot an cold with his mouth. He knows how to take the heat off his players and protect his guys, but he also brings added heat to the team at poor times.

Basically, he isn't an elite manager. He isn't a Bobby Cox. He isn't going to take a bad team and lead it to victory, but he isn't going to take a good team and kill it. He doesn't win you many games, but he doesn't lose you many. His ideal role would be as a bench coach, motivating his guys, while working with a better in game manager.

You're implying that Bobby Cox is an elite manager and can take a bad team and lead it to victory. When has he done that?

LITTLE NELL
05-06-2009, 04:37 PM
Ozzie has been dealt a bad hand by KW. He has no real lead off man and no CFer. This did not happen yesterday, its been going on since we traded Rowand and Pods got hurt in 06.

doublem23
05-06-2009, 04:46 PM
You're implying that Bobby Cox is an elite manager and can take a bad team and lead it to victory. When has he done that?

You guide a team to the play-offs 14 straight times, I don't care what level of talent you have, that makes you elite. Its unprecedented.

Domeshot17
05-06-2009, 04:53 PM
You're implying that Bobby Cox is an elite manager and can take a bad team and lead it to victory. When has he done that?

Ozzie has made the playoffs twice and never back to back. Cox has made the playoffs 14 straight years. If Ozzie did that we would be crowning him king

veeter
05-06-2009, 04:59 PM
To be fair, I think people are not speaking for this year only.

'07,'08, and so far '09 have been some very ugly years when it comes to offensive execution and playing fundamental baseball. It's been awful.

Yes we won the division in '08, but take a step back and think of how awful a ride that thing was up until that final game. Most of the games in late August and September were un-watchable.I like the fact the Sox won the division in '08, without it being some 'Magical' season. That's when you can start climbing to elite status. If the Sox became another Cardinal type organization, I'd love it. The Cardinals don't always make it pretty, but they consistently hang banners up. So to me 2008 wasn't ugly. It was what it was.

voodoochile
05-06-2009, 05:06 PM
To be fair, I think people are not speaking for this year only.

'07,'08, and so far '09 have been some very ugly years when it comes to offensive execution and playing fundamental baseball. It's been awful.

Yes we won the division in '08, but take a step back and think of how awful a ride that thing was up until that final game. Most of the games in late August and September were un-watchable.

After Contreras came back and got hurt and then TCQ broke his wrist?

Unbelievable that you would whine about the results the year the Sox won the division playing without their MVP candidate the final month or so.

I've seen some whiny posts in my time, but this is close to a record for ridiculous.

LoveYourSuit
05-06-2009, 05:17 PM
After Contreras came back and got hurt and then TCQ broke his wrist?

Unbelievable that you would whine about the results the year the Sox won the division playing without their MVP candidate the final month or so.

I've seen some whiny posts in my time, but this is close to a record for ridiculous.


Come on Voodoo. One thing is to be a die hard fan, the other thing is to be blind at facts. 2008 was some of the worst situational hitting and fundementals we have seen by an Ozzie club. Unfortunately it looks like that team is going to take a back seat to this '09 one.

Call my post whiny, call me whiny. That's fine. At least I am not thumping my chest about a very mediocre division title which took 163 games to win and then reality striking with a quick bounce out of the playoffs. I thought we as Sox fans had higher standards but I guess I was wrong.

EndemicSox
05-06-2009, 05:24 PM
I'm in the camp that believes a manager has very little significance in the W-L column, at least at the MLB level. The best manager in the league may be worth 5 "extra" wins, and the worst 5 "losses". Looking at the Sox record during Guillen's tenure, it's hard to argue he has done a bad job, but it's also hard to say he has done a great job as well. It is simply extremely hard to judge/compare managers.

General Managers, and/or involved owners, these guys are the one's who deserve most of the credit/blame, after the players, of course.

voodoochile
05-06-2009, 05:38 PM
Come on Voodoo. One thing is to be a die hard fan, the other thing is to be blind at facts. 2008 was some of the worst situational hitting and fundementals we have seen by an Ozzie club. Unfortunately it looks like that team is going to take a back seat to this '09 one.

Call my post whiny, call me whiny. That's fine. At least I am not thumping my chest about a very mediocre division title which took 163 games to win and then reality striking with a quick bounce out of the playoffs. I thought we as Sox fans had higher standards but I guess I was wrong.

All this of course AFTER we lost our MVP candidate for the year. How good is any team if you take off their best player going into the pennant race? The fact the Sox fought hard and won the games they did says a LOT about the way the team was handled by management.

Yeah, I think your post is over the top whiny...

LoveYourSuit
05-06-2009, 06:19 PM
All this of course AFTER we lost our MVP candidate for the year. How good is any team if you take off their best player going into the pennant race? The fact the Sox fought hard and won the games they did says a LOT about the way the team was handled by management.

Yeah, I think your post is over the top whiny...


So Carlos was the difference on why the Sox played awful fundemental baseball last year?

The Sox were spinning their wheels the entire second half last year because of very dumb baseball; running, hitting, defense, and the bullpen implosion. Carlos had nothing to do with any of the above.

TomBradley72
05-06-2009, 06:24 PM
Come on Voodoo. One thing is to be a die hard fan, the other thing is to be blind at facts. 2008 was some of the worst situational hitting and fundementals we have seen by an Ozzie club. Unfortunately it looks like that team is going to take a back seat to this '09 one.

Call my post whiny, call me whiny. That's fine. At least I am not thumping my chest about a very mediocre division title which took 163 games to win and then reality striking with a quick bounce out of the playoffs. I thought we as Sox fans had higher standards but I guess I was wrong.

We lost our starting 3rd baseman, one of our starting pitchers and our MVP candidate LF...and still made the post season with a heroic three game floorish at the end. A great team? No. A gutsy team that refused to quit? Yes.

I've been a fan for 38 seasons...we've had exactly 5 division titles in that time...so I'm very appreciative of what the 2008 WSox accompished and how Guillen helped us get there.

russ99
05-06-2009, 06:59 PM
Ozzie did a tremendous job last season. End of story.

He may be a potty-mouthed idiot at times (IMO, crazy like a fox) but he's one of the best managers in the game.

And I bristle when people demean Ozzie's accomplishments by insinuating that somehow the 2005 champs lucked into a title or were somehow a lesser team than other Series winners. We all know the truth, both for the 2005 Sox and Ozzie's accomplishments.

And as other posters put it, would you pick any other recent Sox manager over Ozzie? The only one I'd even consider was Chuck Tanner and that's from back in the 70s.

Frater Perdurabo
05-06-2009, 07:10 PM
I voted no. He was brilliant with a great team in 2005. But he has not improved as a manager since that time.

Pro: He's a great "clubhouse" manager and his attitude adjustment really improved the Sox in 2004 and 2005. (2004 was derailed by injuries.)

Con: He's not a great in-game manager/strategist. That was his weakness coming into the job in 2004, and he's not done much to improve on that since then.

The good news is that it is possible to learn to be a better strategist. The bad news is that to date, he hasn't shown the inclination or interest to learn to be a better strategist.

TealTank
05-06-2009, 07:36 PM
You guide a team to the play-offs 14 straight times, I don't care what level of talent you have, that makes you elite. Its unprecedented.


You made two different statements.

One, being an elite manager, which Cox is.

The other point is a manager winning without a lot of talent. That is something Cox has not been able to do.

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 08:25 PM
You made two different statements.

One, being an elite manager, which Cox is.

The other point is a manager winning without a lot of talent. That is something Cox has not been able to do.

I don't know about the last statement, the last couple division titles in their run the Braves weren't exactly of their 90s ilk.

On the subject of managers, Jon Heyman had a good article in SI today:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/05/06/manager.rankings/index.html

JB98
05-06-2009, 08:31 PM
Yes, I thought Ozzie did a helluva job to get last year's mediocre roster into the playoffs.

He's not the best in the game, but I'll take him on my side anytime.

Frater Perdurabo
05-06-2009, 08:34 PM
Yes, I thought Ozzie did a helluva job to get last year's mediocre roster into the playoffs.

He's not the best in the game, but I'll take him on my side anytime.

The things that he's good at cannot be learned or taught.

The things he's not good at can be learned. I wish he had an experienced, cerebral strategist as his bench coach.

JB98
05-06-2009, 08:39 PM
The things that he's good at cannot be learned or taught.

The things he's not good at can be learned. I wish he had an experienced, cerebral strategist as his bench coach.

I think Ozzie would be a better manager if he had a more versatile group of offensive players. This club is what it is offensively. I think KW is working on transforming the team into a younger, more athletic unit. But it isn't going to happen overnight.

I actually think Ozzie has gotten better with handling the pitching staff, but it's still a work in progress. IMO, he has a better bullpen this year than the past couple years, which should help.

canOcorn
05-06-2009, 09:04 PM
I voted no. He was brilliant with a great team in 2005. But he has not improved as a manager since that time.

Pro: He's a great "clubhouse" manager and his attitude adjustment really improved the Sox in 2004 and 2005. (2004 was derailed by injuries.)

Con: He's not a great in-game manager/strategist. That was his weakness coming into the job in 2004, and he's not done much to improve on that since then.

The good news is that it is possible to learn to be a better strategist. The bad news is that to date, he hasn't shown the inclination or interest to learn to be a better strategist.

+1 pretty much, except I'll add that he's not only a not so great in game manager/strategist.....he's extemely poor at those that aspects of the game.

Soxfest
05-06-2009, 09:56 PM
I voted yes, but he still lacks at setting up a bullpen!

Tragg
05-06-2009, 11:02 PM
The things that he's good at cannot be learned or taught.

The things he's not good at can be learned. I wish he had an experienced, cerebral strategist as his bench coach.
I think he's good in the clubhouse.
I don't think his strategy is as bad as yall think.

I do think his talent evaluation skills on hitting are horrendous.