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tm1119
05-05-2009, 11:42 PM
Looks like he just about done in Washington, and I really dont think I need to point out our need for OF help. I know hes had a bad attitude so far, but he is an extremely talented player that would help this team out tremendously. I really dont think it would take a whole lot to get him either. Most likely some young pitching. Richard? So how bad of an idea do you guys think this would be?

DSpivack
05-05-2009, 11:47 PM
He's a malcontent who apparently won't accept coaching, is a corner OF who hasn't shown he can hit consistently in the major leagues.

No thanks. If he's not good enough for the Natinals, he's not good enough.

kittle42
05-05-2009, 11:58 PM
If he's not good enough for the Natinals, he's not good enough.

Well played!

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 12:00 AM
Well played!

I guess you could say Milledge has yet to prove he has any 'o'. :tongue:

tm1119
05-06-2009, 12:18 AM
He's a malcontent who apparently won't accept coaching, is a corner OF who hasn't shown he can hit consistently in the major leagues.

No thanks. If he's not good enough for the Natinals, he's not good enough.

He hit .268 with a .330 OBP last year. And 14 HR's and 25 SB to go along with that. And that was only in 523 AB's. If thats not good enough for you then I guess you want a good portion of our current roster cut then.

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 12:25 AM
He hit .268 with a .330 OBP last year. And 14 HR's and 25 SB to go along with that. And that was only in 523 AB's. If thats not good enough for you then I guess you want a good portion of our current roster cut then.

He can't play CF. So he should replace TCQ or Dye?

tm1119
05-06-2009, 12:44 AM
He can't play CF. So he should replace TCQ or Dye?

He played 134 games at CF last year. Hes definitely not great there, but hes passable.

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 12:47 AM
He played 134 games at CF last year. Hes definitely not great there, but hes passable.

The Nats played him there, that doesn't mean he can play the position.

He's currently hitting .246 in AAA. No thanks.

Craig Grebeck
05-06-2009, 01:26 AM
The Nats played him there, that doesn't mean he can play the position.

He's currently hitting .246 in AAA. No thanks.
That's quite the sample size to make such definitive statements. Congratulations.

tm1119
05-06-2009, 01:37 AM
That's quite the sample size to make such definitive statements. Congratulations.

Exactly. Why is it that no player is ever good enough for the White Sox on this forum?

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 01:48 AM
That's quite the sample size to make such definitive statements. Congratulations.

Exactly. Why is it that no player is ever good enough for the White Sox on this forum?

He is not good enough for the Nationals. You really want a flamed-out prospect who admits that he won't take the advice of coaching (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/03/AR2009050302250.html)and is at best mediocre defensively?

tm1119
05-06-2009, 02:53 AM
He hit .268 with a .330 OBP last year. And 14 HR's and 25 SB to go along with that. And that was only in 523 AB's. If thats not good enough for you then I guess you want a good portion of our current roster cut then.

I"ll repeat that line just encase you missed it. Its pretty ridiculous to completely right him off because he got off to a slow start this year. Also, the Nationals entire organization is in shambles right now, a change of scenery could do this guy wonders.

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 03:48 AM
I"ll repeat that line just encase you missed it. Its pretty ridiculous to completely right him off because he got off to a slow start this year. Also, the Nationals entire organization is in shambles right now, a change of scenery could do this guy wonders.

And I guessed you missed the part where he said that he will not accept coaching and knows what's best for him.

If the Sox are going to trade for a CF, why do it for someone who is a malcontent, a project, refuses to accept coaching and thinks he knows what is best for himself, has yet to prove he can be a successful major league hitter, and is not good at all defensively except in the corner OF spots that are not a weakness for the Sox?

In 1000 major league at-bats, Milledge has a .726 OPS [.261/.326/.400].
Brian Anderson, in 660 major league at-bats, has a .660 OPS [.227/.286/.374]. You really think Milledge would make a big difference?

I could see Milledge being a decent big-league LFer someday and a change of scenery could help him. It's obvious to me that he and the Nationals organization just are not getting along any longer.

That does not mean, however, that Milledge is the answer for the Chicago White Sox in CF.

asindc
05-06-2009, 09:25 AM
DSpivack is right. It amazes me how many Sox fans rip Ozzie for playing guys like Swisher and Wise in CF, but clamor after someone like Milledge, who was sent down to AAA this year in part because he has been lousy in CF. Even most Nats fans will tell you that trying to convert him to a CF was an experiment that hasn't worked. Most see him as a LF in the long term IF he stays with the Nationals. In fact, most of them would find it laughable that any team looking to contend would consider adding Milledge as a starting CF. If you think you hate the routes Wise takes to fly balls, wait until you watch Milledge in CF.

And none of the above even addresses his unwillingness/inability to bat leadoff effectively.

kittle42
05-06-2009, 09:47 AM
DSpivack is right. It amazes me how many Sox fans rip Ozzie for playing guys like Swisher and Wise in CF, but clamor after someone like Milledge, who was sent down to AAA this year in part because he has been lousy in CF. Even most Nats fans will tell you that trying to convert him to a CF was an experiment that hasn't worked. Most see him as a LF in the long term IF he stays with the Nationals. If you think you hate the routes Wise takes to fly balls, wait until you watch Milledge in CF.

It's the old "everything out there is better than what we've got" thing, which is obviously only correct part of the time.

asindc
05-06-2009, 09:49 AM
It's the old "everything out there is better than what we've got" thing, which is obviously only correct part of the time.

Yeah, it has to be a "the grass is greener on the other side" thing. Nothing else really explains it. It also explains why so many seem to think KW can just go to the CF store and pick up a leadoff CF.

khan
05-06-2009, 11:33 AM
Depending on what it would cost to get him, why not?

I mean, this is an organization that brought back Jerry Freaking Owens because there is an abject lack of OF talent outside Quentin and an aging Jermaine Dye. This is an organization that signed such luminaries as Daryle Ward and Scott Podsednik, both of whom are on the wrong side of 30 and clearly in decline.

Is Milledge better than Lillibridge? Is he better than Ward? Is he better than Podsednik? I say that he just might be, and he's younger than at least two of these players.

asindc
05-06-2009, 11:49 AM
Depending on what it would cost to get him, why not?

I mean, this is an organization that brought back Jerry Freaking Owens because there is an abject lack of OF talent outside Quentin and an aging Jermaine Dye. This is an organization that signed such luminaries as Daryle Ward and Scott Podsednik, both of whom are on the wrong side of 30 and clearly in decline.

Is Milledge better than Lillibridge? Is he better than Ward? Is he better than Podsednik? I say that he just might be, and he's younger than at least two of these players.

I think he is only 23, maybe 24, so the Nats won't give him away at this point. While it is true that he is not their most tradable asset right now, he is still a part of their long term planning... for now.

PalehosePlanet
05-06-2009, 01:41 PM
I think he is only 23, maybe 24, so the Nats won't give him away at this point. While it is true that he is not there most tradable asset right now, he is still a part of their long term planning... for now.

I know both you and DSPIVAK live in that area and have more information on him than most here do. In fact you set me straight in a different thread about his attitude problems that I was not aware of. Thanks.

However, I still think that this kid can put it all together and become a stud, or close to it. You guys do realize that we're running chumps like Podsednik, and gave a chump like Jerry Owens a chance too, right? Hell, sometimes we even have a 2B playing CF.

I, personally, if the price is right, would love to take a chance on him. Maybe a trade would serve as a wake up call. Bottom line: It never hurts to have more young talent in the organization, and if JD or someone else were to go on the DL at least we would have a replacement for them that has the potential to become something special.

Also, keep in mind, that KW loves to take a chance on post-hype prpspects (Quentin, Flloyd, etc...)

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 02:07 PM
I know both you and DSPIVAK live in that area and have more information on him than most here do. In fact you set me straight in a different thread about his attitude problems that I was not aware of. Thanks.

However, I still think that this kid can put it all together and become a stud, or close to it. You guys do realize that we're running chumps like Podsednik, and gave a chump like Jerry Owens a chance too, right? Hell, sometimes we even have a 2B playing CF.

I, personally, if the price is right, would love to take a chance on him. Maybe a trade would serve as a wake up call. Bottom line: It never hurts to have more young talent in the organization, and if JD or someone else were to go on the DL at least we would have a replacement for them that has the potential to become something special.

Also, keep in mind, that KW loves to take a chance on post-hype prpspects (Quentin, Flloyd, etc...)

Milledge would not be an upgrade defensively in CF. He's probably worse than Podsednik, Owens or Wise.

In his career, he's been a decent corner OFer. That's where he should play. And that's not currently a weakness for the Sox.

asindc
05-06-2009, 02:59 PM
Milledge would not be an upgrade defensively in CF. He's probably worse than Podsednik, Owens or Wise.

In his career, he's been a decent corner OFer. That's where he should play. And that's not currently a weakness for the Sox.

Exactly.

EMachine10
05-06-2009, 03:37 PM
When Anderson comes back healthy, I hope he can sustain his approach at the plate so we won't have to revisit threads like this. It seems like Milledge has been trying to make it for a while now, but he is only 23 or 24. He has room to grow, but I'm not certain that he's a real upgrade over what we can field on our own. I am also not convinced that Washington is ready to part ways with him.

VeeckAsInWreck
05-06-2009, 04:00 PM
He is not good enough for the Nationals. You really want a flamed-out prospect who admits that he won't take the advice of coaching (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/03/AR2009050302250.html)and is at best mediocre defensively?

If he won't take coaching advice that's fine because our coaches don't give advice from what I read on this board.

Either way, I'd take a gamble on him if the price isn't too steep.

ViPeRx007
05-06-2009, 07:43 PM
It's funny that people worry about Milledge's defense in CF when we trot Lillibridge and Pods out there and they make routine plays look highlight reel catches....which isn't good.

Milledge has potential, that's the difference than what we currently have on the roster.

DSpivack
05-06-2009, 08:02 PM
It's funny that people worry about Milledge's defense in CF when we trot Lillibridge and Pods out there and they make routine plays look highlight reel catches....which isn't good.

Milledge has potential, that's the difference than what we currently have on the roster.

Except that Milledge is probably worse defensively in CF than Lillibridge, Pods, or Wise.

And corner OF is not a need.

PalehosePlanet
05-07-2009, 12:24 PM
Except that Milledge is probably worse defensively in CF than Lillibridge, Pods, or Wise.

And corner OF is not a need.

I agree that corner OF is not a need RIGHT NOW. But that can quickly change with an injury.

Also whose to say that Milledge couldn't be Dye replacement next year?

Again, I'm talking from an orgizational depth point of view.

DSpivack
05-07-2009, 01:44 PM
I agree that corner OF is not a need RIGHT NOW. But that can quickly change with an injury.

Also whose to say that Milledge couldn't be Dye replacement next year?

Again, I'm talking from an orgizational depth point of view.

I wouldn't want to rely on him to replace Dye next season, or to rely on him for anything. I don't think the Nats are quite at the point of giving up on him, but if they are and we can get him for cents on the dollar, then maybe it's worth a look. However, I don't see the point in trying to acquire someone with an attitude like that who we just have to hope will improve into a major league player on his own, or will suddenly change courses and take coaching.

khan
05-08-2009, 11:57 AM
Milledge would not be an upgrade defensively in CF. He's probably worse than Podsednik, Owens or Wise.
I wouldn't be to sure about that. These three are pretty bad. Is Milledge's arm as bad as Owens'/Wise's/Pods'? Does he take bad routes to the ball as Owens and Wise do? Does he not get a good jump off the ball? [I honestly don't know for sure.]

In any case, he IS younger than these three, so it isn't impossible that he could become better than all three of them. That is, if he's as bad defensively as you claim.

In his career, he's been a decent corner OFer. That's where he should play. And that's not currently a weakness for the Sox.
But OF depth, of ANY variety is a weakness for the organization. [As illustrated by the Owens and Podsednik additions, as well as the existence of Wise and Lillibridge in the 40 man roster.]

I'd really HATE the thought of what this team would have to do if there were any more injuries in the OF. But then again, Lillibridge is the 7th option tried in the OF [after Dye/Quentin/Anderson/Wise/Podsednik/Owens] in the team, so really nobody could've planned for this.

asindc
05-08-2009, 12:15 PM
I wouldn't be to sure about that. These three are pretty bad. Is Milledge's arm as bad as Owens'/Wise's/Pods'? Does he take bad routes to the ball as Owens and Wise do? Does he not get a good jump off the ball?

In any case, he IS younger than these three, so it isn't impossible that he could become better than all three of them. That is, if he's as bad defensively as you claim.


But OF depth, of ANY variety is a weakness for the organization. [As illustrated by the Owens and Podsednik additions, as well as the existence of Wise and Lillibridge in the 40 man roster.]

I'd really HATE the thought of what this team would have to do if there were any more injuries in the OF. But then again, Lillibridge is the 7th option tried in the OF [after Dye/Quentin/Anderson/Wise/Podsednik/Owens] in the team, so really nobody could've planned for this.

[I]1) Is Milledge's arm as bad as Owens'/Wise's/Pods'?

No. Milledge has the best arm among the four.

2) Does he take bad routes to the ball as Owens and Wise do?

Worse. See my previous posts in this thread.

3) Does he not get a good jump off the ball?

Again, worse. Milledge is a terrible CF, part of the reason he is in AAA now.

In any case, he IS younger than these three, so it isn't impossible that he could become better than all three of them.

I agree, and I think he will eventually be better than Wise and Owens, probably better than Pods for a longer period of time. This is the only reason why this discussion is worthwhile, because if it was based on how good Milledge is now, Milledge is only slightly better offensively than Owens and is the worse CF among those being discussed here. Milledge's youth is also why the Nats won't give him away and most posters here would go ballistic if KW did give the Nats what they would want for him, which is quality pitching. Name any pitcher in the organization that you want the Sox to keep and you can be certain that the Nats will ask for at least one of them.

I attended about 15 Nats games last year and I've started following them more closely in the past two years. Believe me, any deal involving any of their valuable assets will include getting a pitcher in return, unless it is an AS-caliber offensive player. Who would you trade to get him?

Billy Ashley
05-10-2009, 12:59 AM
This is a case of a very talented guy who's to this pointed wasted his gifts.

He's very much worth a gamble- that said, I'm not sure the White Sox are the best team to take that risk.

As others have pointed out, he's a bad defensive center fielder. While yes, he could possibly be a good internal option for Dye, the White Sox biggest need right now is someone who can cover center. Furthermore, given the fragile state of the Central, the White Sox can compete even with a liability at the dish/capable in the field center fielder.

I just don't see much opportunity/

Trav
05-10-2009, 11:43 AM
I watched Milledge with the Mets AAA and thought he was above average defensively. I also never watched him play a game where he did not jaw at an ump.

tm1119
05-10-2009, 10:02 PM
I agree, and I think he will eventually be better than Wise and Owens, probably better than Pods for a longer period of time. This is the only reason why this discussion is worthwhile, because if it was based on how good Milledge is now, Milledge is only slightly better offensively than Owens and is the worse CF among those being discussed here. Milledge's youth is also why the Nats won't give him away and most posters here would go ballistic if KW did give the Nats what they would want for him, which is quality pitching. Name any pitcher in the organization that you want the Sox to keep and you can be certain that the Nats will ask for at least one of them.

I attended about 15 Nats games last year and I've started following them more closely in the past two years. Believe me, any deal involving any of their valuable assets will include getting a pitcher in return, unless it is an AS-caliber offensive player. Who would you trade to get him?

Sorry man, but your are WAY off here. He got off to a slow start this year in 24 AB's, but that really doesnt mean much. Is Alexei only slightly better than Owens? The guy hit 14 HR's with 24 SB's in only 523 AB's in his first full season in the big leagues. He also maintained a .270 AVG with a .330 OBP last year. Jerry Owens couldnt put up those #'s in his dreams. And Milledge has always been a top prospect, his ceiling is still pretty high. I'll admit that I havent seen much of his D to comment, but I get the feeling that you may very well be over exaggerating on that as well.

And the Nats can ask for whoever they want, that doesnt mean they will get those players. It looks like Milledge is just about done in that organization because of the comments he has made. They will end up taking what they can get for him.

palehozenychicty
05-10-2009, 11:04 PM
He made some boneheaded moves with the Mets, but played well the little that he did. The Mets are run by idiots, however, and have no guts on the field. A strong franchise can help him out. The Nasty Nats are not the one.

asindc
05-11-2009, 09:51 AM
Sorry man, but your are WAY off here. He got off to a slow start this year in 24 AB's, but that really doesnt mean much. Is Alexei only slightly better than Owens? The guy hit 14 HR's with 24 SB's in only 523 AB's in his first full season in the big leagues. He also maintained a .270 AVG with a .330 OBP last year. Jerry Owens couldnt put up those #'s in his dreams. And Milledge has always been a top prospect, his ceiling is still pretty high. I'll admit that I havent seen much of his D to comment, but I get the feeling that you may very well be over exaggerating on that as well.

And the Nats can ask for whoever they want, that doesnt mean they will get those players. It looks like Milledge is just about done in that organization because of the comments he has made. They will end up taking what they can get for him.

My opinion is not just based on the one week he batted leadoff this year, it is based on watching him last year as well. As I said, he will be better than Owens and Wise, but for the past year or so, he has not played like it.

The Nats might be quietly shopping him, but they are content to let him play in AAA for now and try to bring him back up eventually, if for no other reason to increase his trade value. The bridge is not burned down, but admittedly Milledge has bought the gas and matches. It's up to him whether or not he sets fire to it.